3rd faction for the "criminals" would have been nice. I bet the Sith and Republic weren't the only factions that tried to control the galaxy. For example Czerka and Exchange tried to control it in their own way.
I'm guessing BH & Smuggler (if they make smuggler) start their story as neutral faction and have to choose the side in some point of their story like Han Solo in the OT.
It was pretty clear to me that SW:TOR would be WoW in space.
But saying that they copied the 2 faction thing from WoW is pretty dumb, I think the OP would make a good WoW player
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Knights of the Old Republic 1 : The Old Republic vs. the Sith Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Old Republic vs. the Sith Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Old Republic vs. the Sith Oh man you're right...just like World of Warcraft!Where could BioWare have possibly gotten the idea to have two major factions competing for dominance in the game? It couldn't possibly be apart of the established lore from the first two games could it?!
So, don't change a thing from a single player game to an MMO conversion. Good plan, should be a great MMO.
if its not broke....dont fix it
exactly, make this a single player game
if it is going to CHANGE genres, it needs to CHANGE something
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Sorry, but Lucas lore is quite clear: Either you are good or evil.
Only a sith deals an absolute(just ignore the fact that that was an absolute).
I'm actually really surprised by this. Bioware is usually about choices in their stories. In the KotOR you could be full light side, full dark side, or somewhere in the middle. I'm really surprised they make you straight up choose a clear cut faction with no middle ground.
I'm slightly disappointed in this, as it does limit the options of players. It personally doesn't matter a whole lot to me as I always pick a faction, but I do feel for those that like to play a neutral side, and feel this is a bad overall design choice.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
Although they made Empire at War's expansion with a 3rd faction, I just dont see the Hutts on equal footing as either the Alliance or Empire in Star Wars. I mean one Jedi(Luke) cleaned house with a major Hutt.
In the KOTOR games, they dont let us know how much power the Hutts have. I am kind of thinking overall though the Exchange syndicate in KOTOR2 was more powerfull than the Hutts, as they are all over the universe, where as the Hutts are on the outter rim planets just outside republic space.
Were the Hutts even as big a presense in the KOTOR time as the movie era?
I think there is a lot open to interpretation.
But I want to see that when the Devs are in doubt, during production, they err on the side of caution(someimtes called the KISS method). Make sure you can do something...dont bite off more than you can chew. Which might of been the case if they had worked out a whole other faction.
You try to do too much , and you always seem to screw up the things that should of come naturally.
Make the game, and polish it. Then polish some more. Then one last time, and launch it so we can play.
When you have your base game intact and working flawlessly, then you can go back and add more to it.
At least that is my 2 cents on the subject.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
I never said the third faction would be as big and powerful as the others. I said a third faction like the Hutts which would be neutral and give people another option, which is what I thought you and the OP was wanting. The power of the factions only comes from the players who are members of them, not from a game mechanic.I know if I'm playing as a smuggler, I would wish to be aligned with a criminal faction like the Hutts. Of course I would do side work for the Sith if needed. But I wouldn't want to be a membr of the Sith.
Far as being binding to one faction, I wouldn't mind people being able to switch factions, but there should be severe consequences for doing so. We don't want a SWG situation where people are flip flopping factions on a weekly basis just for the rewards. If somebody leaves a faction it should set them back -1000 points in the hole with that faction and be really hard to make up. And if there is player bouties in this game, then SEVERE penalties should be levied for attacking your own faction.Nothing in this game would be more horrible than if I have to relive the experience of watching a group member get killed by a member of my faction and not be able to do anything about it.That just killed immersion for me every time I saw it.
Copying elements from the most successful MMO out there? For shame, BioWare. No business sense, I tells ya.
All kidding aside- I hardly think 2 factions duplicates WoW specifically. I would say it copies Spy versus Spy. Team Fortress. CounterStrike. The Cold War. The half moon cookie.
3rd faction for the "criminals" would have been nice. I bet the Sith and Republic weren't the only factions that tried to control the galaxy. For example Czerka and Exchange tried to control it in their own way. I'm guessing BH & Smuggler (if they make smuggler) start their story as neutral faction and have to choose the side in some point of their story like Han Solo in the OT.
THIS JUST IN: Good fights Evil. Thread is pointless and trollish.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
I never said the third faction would be as big and powerful as the others. I said a third faction like the Hutts which would be neutral and give people another option, which is what I thought you and the OP was wanting. The power of the factions only comes from the players who are members of them, not from a game mechanic.I know if I'm playing as a smuggler, I would wish to be aligned with a criminal faction like the Hutts. Of course I would do side work for the Sith if needed. But I wouldn't want to be a membr of the Sith.
Far as being binding to one faction, I wouldn't mind people being able to switch factions, but there should be severe consequences for doing so. We don't want a SWG situation where people are flip flopping factions on a weekly basis just for the rewards. If somebody leaves a faction it should set them back -1000 points in the hole with that faction and be really hard to make up. And if there is player bouties in this game, then SEVERE penalties should be levied for attacking your own faction.Nothing in this game would be more horrible than if I have to relive the experience of watching a group member get killed by a member of my faction and not be able to do anything about it.That just killed immersion for me every time I saw it.
For the first part, the reason why I said it shouldn't be as big or powerful as the Sith or Republic is that if it is a player faction, than there is nothing stopping people from playing it. In that sense, the amount of players in that third faction could be just as many as the amount of players in the two main factions. Granted the NPC power of the third faction could be made somewhat small, but without some sort of limiting factor for the third faction you could end up with a situation where the third faction has just as many players, and therefore is just as big and powerful in the game as the other two factions.
As for the second part, I agree completely. Changing factions shouldn't be done on a whim, it should take some time, or with a big penalty to the faction that you are leaving, so that changing factions is a big decision not easily reversed.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I have kept my nose outa this but I gota say something now, the game has two empire like factions in it, but within each faction is three sub factions or alignment paths. You have the right to be evil, good, or nuetral within those two major factions. The sith and republic both see themselves as in the right here. Dark and light are not synonyms for good and evil, some people choose the path of darkness because in the darkness it is the only place they can see the light. On the opposite end some of the greatest acts of evil have been made in the name of all that is light and good. So to say there is no neutral faction is a bit off. Neutral is an alignment path choice, in a war there really is no one who is neutral, eventually one side will see that neutrality as a weakness and attack them. So teaches Sun Tzu.
Bioware has stated from the first developer documentary that the game will have alignments like KoToR 1 and , in this player will be able to choose on either side if they are good, evil, or nuetral. WoW on the other hand had no Evil faction, it was instead more civilized vs savage. The orcs, tuaren, trolls, and undead live in either the wilds or ruined cities places ususally related to savage peoples. While the Humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes live in cites and forts. In truth each faction has one opposite in it, the blood elves and the night elves are really more opposits, but the point remains valid. It is a fight based more on mutual disdane and old bad blood than good or evil.
In SWToR it is more of a theological battle, two paths with the same goal, the Republic seeks freedom through unity and understanding while the sith seeks it through Force or will and power. It's best explaned by the tenits of the jedi and the sith. The siths that goes peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power. Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The force shall set me free. The jedi's that goes there is no emotion, there is pease. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the force. Both sides seeking a freedom, one through force the other through control of the self. Each side wanting to bring it's concept to the whole of the universe.
They're not copying WoW, they're copying Chess another game I won't play until they add the 3rd 'gray' faction.
ROFL. Let's add checkers, stratego, battleship,Connect 4, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bors, etc. to that list. Those sneaky bastards making a game without a third faction. What the hell were they thinking?
Its not a lore issue. Its a Dev issue. There is nothing in the lore that would have prevented Bioware from adding a Smuggler faction or a Merchant faction. This is just what Bioware chose to do for their own reasons.
They're not copying WoW, they're copying Chess another game I won't play until they add the 3rd 'gray' faction.
Chess copied WoW. Didn't you know George Lucas was grinding WoW for 8 hours a day back when he was directing Star Wars? Aparently, once an MMO breaks 5 million players, timelines stop existing and the game becomes so powerful, that it becomes a law of the universe. Omnipresent. Gravity, Energy, Mass, World of Warcraft. Pick up a text book.
Seriously though, everyone just needs to forget about WoW for 5 minutes and actually give new games a chance.
They're not copying WoW, they're copying Chess another game I won't play until they add the 3rd 'gray' faction.
Chess copied WoW. Didn't you know George Lucas was grinding WoW for 8 hours a day back when he was directing Star Wars? Aparently, once an MMO breaks 5 million players, timelines stop existing and the game becomes so powerful, that it becomes a law of the universe. Omnipresent. Gravity, Energy, Mass, World of Warcraft. Pick up a text book.
Seriously though, everyone just needs to forget about WoW for 5 minutes and actually give new games a chance.
in a war there really is no one who is neutral, eventually one side will see that neutrality as a weakness and attack them.
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
in a war there really is no one who is neutral, eventually one side will see that neutrality as a weakness and attack them.
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Are we sure that this is going to be clean cut though? From what I remember your decisions effect your alignment so in theory if you select the right options you could remain neutral. Then again, I haven't really been keeping up on this.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
in a war there really is no one who is neutral, eventually one side will see that neutrality as a weakness and attack them.
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Are we sure that this is going to be clean cut though? From what I remember your decisions effect your alignment so in theory if you select the right options you could remain neutral. Then again, I haven't really been keeping up on this.
From what I understood, that alignment was going to be like a good vs. evil or light vs. dark alignment inside the faction. You would still be in the Republic, but you could be an "Evil" Republic member. But you are still required to choose a faction and work for the. I could have misunderstood it though.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Comments
3rd faction for the "criminals" would have been nice. I bet the Sith and Republic weren't the only factions that tried to control the galaxy. For example Czerka and Exchange tried to control it in their own way.
I'm guessing BH & Smuggler (if they make smuggler) start their story as neutral faction and have to choose the side in some point of their story like Han Solo in the OT.
Omg SWTOR is also gonna copy a major aspect of wow!!!
YOU USE A KEYBOARD AND A MOUSE TO MOVE AROUND!!
This game is just a stupid wow clone.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
It was pretty clear to me that SW:TOR would be WoW in space.
But saying that they copied the 2 faction thing from WoW is pretty dumb, I think the OP would make a good WoW player
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
THIS JUST IN:
Good fights Evil.
Thread is pointless and trollish.
So, don't change a thing from a single player game to an MMO conversion. Good plan, should be a great MMO.
if its not broke....dont fix it
exactly, make this a single player game
if it is going to CHANGE genres, it needs to CHANGE something
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Only a sith deals an absolute(just ignore the fact that that was an absolute).
I'm actually really surprised by this. Bioware is usually about choices in their stories. In the KotOR you could be full light side, full dark side, or somewhere in the middle. I'm really surprised they make you straight up choose a clear cut faction with no middle ground.
I'm slightly disappointed in this, as it does limit the options of players. It personally doesn't matter a whole lot to me as I always pick a faction, but I do feel for those that like to play a neutral side, and feel this is a bad overall design choice.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The faction model will always be imbalanced. One side will always outnumber the other. The more I learn about this game, the less I want to play it.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
Although they made Empire at War's expansion with a 3rd faction, I just dont see the Hutts on equal footing as either the Alliance or Empire in Star Wars. I mean one Jedi(Luke) cleaned house with a major Hutt.
In the KOTOR games, they dont let us know how much power the Hutts have. I am kind of thinking overall though the Exchange syndicate in KOTOR2 was more powerfull than the Hutts, as they are all over the universe, where as the Hutts are on the outter rim planets just outside republic space.
Were the Hutts even as big a presense in the KOTOR time as the movie era?
I think there is a lot open to interpretation.
But I want to see that when the Devs are in doubt, during production, they err on the side of caution(someimtes called the KISS method). Make sure you can do something...dont bite off more than you can chew. Which might of been the case if they had worked out a whole other faction.
You try to do too much , and you always seem to screw up the things that should of come naturally.
Make the game, and polish it. Then polish some more. Then one last time, and launch it so we can play.
When you have your base game intact and working flawlessly, then you can go back and add more to it.
At least that is my 2 cents on the subject.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
I never said the third faction would be as big and powerful as the others. I said a third faction like the Hutts which would be neutral and give people another option, which is what I thought you and the OP was wanting. The power of the factions only comes from the players who are members of them, not from a game mechanic.I know if I'm playing as a smuggler, I would wish to be aligned with a criminal faction like the Hutts. Of course I would do side work for the Sith if needed. But I wouldn't want to be a membr of the Sith.
Far as being binding to one faction, I wouldn't mind people being able to switch factions, but there should be severe consequences for doing so. We don't want a SWG situation where people are flip flopping factions on a weekly basis just for the rewards. If somebody leaves a faction it should set them back -1000 points in the hole with that faction and be really hard to make up. And if there is player bouties in this game, then SEVERE penalties should be levied for attacking your own faction.Nothing in this game would be more horrible than if I have to relive the experience of watching a group member get killed by a member of my faction and not be able to do anything about it.That just killed immersion for me every time I saw it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Copying elements from the most successful MMO out there? For shame, BioWare. No business sense, I tells ya.
All kidding aside- I hardly think 2 factions duplicates WoW specifically. I would say it copies Spy versus Spy. Team Fortress. CounterStrike. The Cold War. The half moon cookie.
BioWare, those friggin' posers! :P
Yeah 3rd faction should be the huts.
Yes, another no shitter thread started from the sand trolls. The WOW haters see WOW around every corner,even with old design concepts. There's been good vs. evil in games as long as I can remember. Nothing new or earth shattering here. What's next? Will the trees and water be more proof that Bioware is copying WOW?
His issue isn't that it is good vs. evil, but more that there is no neutral faction. That means people are forced to join a faction. Some people don't like that. As for claiming they are copying WoW, kind of ridiculous.
Yes, I think a third faction would have made sense. The Hutts as far as I can tell was always neutral while being a thorn in the side of both. I think that would have been an interesting option, especially for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers.
I wouldn't even go as far as a third faction, simply because lore wise it wouldn't make sense for a third faction to be as big or as powerful as either the Republic or the Sith, but more of a state of neutrality to both. You could even have a system like the force system where doing stuff for one Faction would raise your standing with that faction, but lower it with the other. Just like you see Boba Fett working for the Empire and for Jabba. He was more of a freelancer, working for who payed the best. Eventaully with enough work for one faction, the other faction wouldn't be so willing to offer you work, or even make you an enemy of the state eventually. But I don't think there should be a binding contract that says you ARE a member of this faction and always will be. Betrayal, or switching factions, should be a viable option, and great for drama and story.
I never said the third faction would be as big and powerful as the others. I said a third faction like the Hutts which would be neutral and give people another option, which is what I thought you and the OP was wanting. The power of the factions only comes from the players who are members of them, not from a game mechanic.I know if I'm playing as a smuggler, I would wish to be aligned with a criminal faction like the Hutts. Of course I would do side work for the Sith if needed. But I wouldn't want to be a membr of the Sith.
Far as being binding to one faction, I wouldn't mind people being able to switch factions, but there should be severe consequences for doing so. We don't want a SWG situation where people are flip flopping factions on a weekly basis just for the rewards. If somebody leaves a faction it should set them back -1000 points in the hole with that faction and be really hard to make up. And if there is player bouties in this game, then SEVERE penalties should be levied for attacking your own faction.Nothing in this game would be more horrible than if I have to relive the experience of watching a group member get killed by a member of my faction and not be able to do anything about it.That just killed immersion for me every time I saw it.
For the first part, the reason why I said it shouldn't be as big or powerful as the Sith or Republic is that if it is a player faction, than there is nothing stopping people from playing it. In that sense, the amount of players in that third faction could be just as many as the amount of players in the two main factions. Granted the NPC power of the third faction could be made somewhat small, but without some sort of limiting factor for the third faction you could end up with a situation where the third faction has just as many players, and therefore is just as big and powerful in the game as the other two factions.
As for the second part, I agree completely. Changing factions shouldn't be done on a whim, it should take some time, or with a big penalty to the faction that you are leaving, so that changing factions is a big decision not easily reversed.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
They're not copying WoW, they're copying Chess another game I won't play until they add the 3rd 'gray' faction.
I have kept my nose outa this but I gota say something now, the game has two empire like factions in it, but within each faction is three sub factions or alignment paths. You have the right to be evil, good, or nuetral within those two major factions. The sith and republic both see themselves as in the right here. Dark and light are not synonyms for good and evil, some people choose the path of darkness because in the darkness it is the only place they can see the light. On the opposite end some of the greatest acts of evil have been made in the name of all that is light and good. So to say there is no neutral faction is a bit off. Neutral is an alignment path choice, in a war there really is no one who is neutral, eventually one side will see that neutrality as a weakness and attack them. So teaches Sun Tzu.
Bioware has stated from the first developer documentary that the game will have alignments like KoToR 1 and , in this player will be able to choose on either side if they are good, evil, or nuetral. WoW on the other hand had no Evil faction, it was instead more civilized vs savage. The orcs, tuaren, trolls, and undead live in either the wilds or ruined cities places ususally related to savage peoples. While the Humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes live in cites and forts. In truth each faction has one opposite in it, the blood elves and the night elves are really more opposits, but the point remains valid. It is a fight based more on mutual disdane and old bad blood than good or evil.
In SWToR it is more of a theological battle, two paths with the same goal, the Republic seeks freedom through unity and understanding while the sith seeks it through Force or will and power. It's best explaned by the tenits of the jedi and the sith. The siths that goes peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power. Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The force shall set me free. The jedi's that goes there is no emotion, there is pease. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the force. Both sides seeking a freedom, one through force the other through control of the self. Each side wanting to bring it's concept to the whole of the universe.
ROFL. Let's add checkers, stratego, battleship,Connect 4, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bors, etc. to that list. Those sneaky bastards making a game without a third faction. What the hell were they thinking?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Its not a lore issue. Its a Dev issue. There is nothing in the lore that would have prevented Bioware from adding a Smuggler faction or a Merchant faction. This is just what Bioware chose to do for their own reasons.
Chess copied WoW. Didn't you know George Lucas was grinding WoW for 8 hours a day back when he was directing Star Wars? Aparently, once an MMO breaks 5 million players, timelines stop existing and the game becomes so powerful, that it becomes a law of the universe. Omnipresent. Gravity, Energy, Mass, World of Warcraft. Pick up a text book.
Seriously though, everyone just needs to forget about WoW for 5 minutes and actually give new games a chance.
((>_<)) ~Aesoa
Chess copied WoW. Didn't you know George Lucas was grinding WoW for 8 hours a day back when he was directing Star Wars? Aparently, once an MMO breaks 5 million players, timelines stop existing and the game becomes so powerful, that it becomes a law of the universe. Omnipresent. Gravity, Energy, Mass, World of Warcraft. Pick up a text book.
Seriously though, everyone just needs to forget about WoW for 5 minutes and actually give new games a chance.
QFE.Same could be said of SWG.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Are we sure that this is going to be clean cut though? From what I remember your decisions effect your alignment so in theory if you select the right options you could remain neutral. Then again, I haven't really been keeping up on this.
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You wouldn't understand
Tell that to the Swiss.
But again, the issues isn't neutrality in a "Good vs. Evil" sense, but more of a Neutrality in the factional sense. In every war in the history of this planet, there have been neutral parties. Not everyone joins a side in every fight.
Neutrality is a very important aspect to a lot of people that enjoy playing smugglers or bounty hunters. They want to be mercenaries, not bound to a faction. I don't think completely eliminating that whole group of play styles is right. It gives the world more depth. I don't see why people would be defending this decision, even if you are going to choose a faction and stick with it, other people's neutrality will have minimal effect on you, and may even enhance your gameplay. Fighting to remove their prefered playstyle is selfish.
Are we sure that this is going to be clean cut though? From what I remember your decisions effect your alignment so in theory if you select the right options you could remain neutral. Then again, I haven't really been keeping up on this.
From what I understood, that alignment was going to be like a good vs. evil or light vs. dark alignment inside the faction. You would still be in the Republic, but you could be an "Evil" Republic member. But you are still required to choose a faction and work for the. I could have misunderstood it though.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.