Pretty much how it works minus one detail , PvMP vs PvP, PvMP me not likey !!!!! Unfortunately because Laurelin EU is one of the best servers i played at Overall in many games!
The crafting system is actually a valid argument against the whole idea that LotRO is all about soloing. The crafting system actually encourages teamwork, and especially kinship participation. Here's why I say this: If you are a solo player trying to get by completely self-reliantly then crafting will have minimal benefit to you. By the time you get your skill up to where you can make a particular crafted, you will usually be a few levels above its requirements. So you'll sometime be able to make gear that replaces an item which you haven't been lucky enough to phase out through quest rewards or loot drops. But there's virtually no way that you'll ever be able to make a crit item which you can actually make use of. You also won't make much money off crafted items because the master craftsmen are able to make better stuff for each level than you can. For the pure solo player, crafting becomes a money sink with little reward. Much like WoW, in fact. On the other hand, if you're part of a good kinship you will find that higher level players are often more than happy to craft stuff for you. These high level players will have achieved mastery in each crafting tier and accumulated a bunch of one-shot recipes that are just burning to be used. If you've been keeping an eye out you will probably have come across a few great recipes for stuff that you can use as well -- you just need a crafter to make it for you. Most of these kin crafters don't even care about profit. All they ask is that you provide them with the necessary ingredients, which are pretty easy to get. They'll then use their far superior crafting tools and crafting journals to drastically increase the crit chance, equipping you with gear that frankly blows the doors off most anything you can get through quests or drops. This is radically different from WoW because with the exception of only a few recipes in each profession even the best crafters will still only be able to create average gear for lowbies. And yes, the crafting system is even viable at end game. For almost all end game content, crafted gear can hold its own against what you get out of raids. The only exception is the Watcher, which requires massive amounts of radiance. This means that active kinships can use their crafters to get their fellows ready for all but the hardest raid in the game. They don't have to run and re-run tier 1 dungeons to get everyone in that gear so that they can then run and re-run tier 2 dungeons so that they can then move on to tier 3 and so forth. They CAN play it this way, just using raids to get gear for people. But that's not their only option. Again, it's a clear difference from WoW. For anyone with the slightest interest in crafting, LotRO is the clear winner when compared to WoW. I never played SWG, so I don't know anything about the old "amazing" crafting system they had that I always hear about. But out of the many, many games that I have played the one with the best crafting system is LotRO.
Great post.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by grandpagamer I agree that the LOTRO crafting is far superior to WOW but i think the game with the most fun crafting system,of the games ive played, is EQ2. Every item made is a mini game of sorts.
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Graphics dont make the game guys, and lets be real LOTRO has some major flaws, most of the time it is spent solo, no real reason to group.
Not even true and it is what you make it to be. If you can't find a "Fellowship" then check your breath. You can solo when you wish, or you can "Fellowship" when you wish. As for a reason to "Fellowship", ask any 6/6 in the game.
What Makes LOTRO great to me is the world, story, and community. I can't think of any other game where I can go to a stage and see a band playing songs for the audience while we just sit and chat. The epic storyline and to a lesser extent the normal quest stories all tie in to one larger story which is very interesting and fun.
My only problems are Moria the enemies are way to densly packed :P And I'm not sure I like the whole legendary system. It's way too random for my tastes. But some people love it so again its personal prefernce.
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
I need some arguments that prefer LOTRO over WOW. This isn't debate to convince which game is better in your opinion, i just need some good points in LOTRO to convince friend of mine to agree this opinion.
Thanks for advance.
- one of the most beautiful graphics with AOC
- one of the best communities
- a lot of content since the release
- a huge world : from Shire to Moria for the moment
- very good storyline
- nice music
- you don't need to play all night, you can play 1H , 30 mn if you like
Originally posted by aurick LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
I dont even know if WoW even can hang on to "Low Fantasy" ever since I've touched that game its been a boring, bland, easy game. And im a lore maniac so i did read through the history of wow... (which in my oppinion looked like someone copy pasted some stuff from (insert religion here) , then some warhammer lore) anyway to end this rant before it gets outta hand... Wow is only played because Everyone else does-syndrome, i played because of my friends. They played because of their friends etc etc etc. Its a easy game to master and fast to hit 80. Also the community is small 13 year old kiddies. And i wont talk about lotro cause i havent played alot, but the start was definitly nice, classes are cool, not alot of the whole "kill x for y npc's to get z amount of gold" (although every mmo has that though lotro has alot of various quests) and i mean who doesnt love a game with its OWN lore?
I'd just like to add some elaboration to these great points:
Originally posted by ougarit
Originally posted by Denweisel
I need some arguments that prefer LOTRO over WOW. This isn't debate to convince which game is better in your opinion, i just need some good points in LOTRO to convince friend of mine to agree this opinion.
Thanks for advance.
- one of the most beautiful graphics with AOC
World graphics -- especially with DirectX -- are very much on a par with AoC for sheer beauty. Character graphics are higher quality than WoW, with many more polygons, resulting in much smoother models. Many people do honestly dislike the look of LotRO's characters, but that's mostly due to the armor styles which are meant to be relatively historical. As ugly as some of that stuff is by modern standards, it's actually pretty darned true to what was worn in the Middle Ages.
Anyway, LotRO does manage to be nearly as beautiful as (and in a few ways more beautiful than) AoC and it accomplishes this with almost no instancing.
- one of the best communities
This is a HUGE change from WoW. Because LotRO doesn't have world PvP, the griefers look to games like WoW or AoC. This has had a profound effect on the community as a whole, since the game tends to be populated with friendlier, helpful, and generally more mature people.
Also, because raids only need 12 people and only the Watcher needs special gear you will find that Kinships are more about socializing and generally having fun together than they are about gear grinds and raiding schedules. If you want to raid, great. If you don't, who cares?
- a lot of content since the release
WoW tends to focus on small free updates every few months such as an occasional new raid and then one large expansion every two years. LotRO tends to have small updates monthly, large updates every few months (usually introducing two whole zones a year) and one huge paid expansion each year. The result is that WoW tends to feel very stale after a while, yet LotRO constantly feels like there's something new.
LotRO definitely provides new content at a much faster pace than WoW, and makes much of it free.
- a huge world : from Shire to Moria for the moment
"From Shire to Moria" is deceptive, since the game world also includes a lot of places that aren't in the books except peripherally. Evendim, Angmar, Forochel and the North Downs, for example.
In terms of square miles, WoW is larger than LotRO. Yet LotRO tends to feel more epic in scale and the content is also much more densely packed. You'll come back to most zones multiple times across a span of many levels before you've finally exhausted them.
- very good storyline
WoW has no real storyline. There's nebulous stuff going on in the background that you sometimes encounter but rarely interact directly with except at highest levels and even then usually only through raiding.
LotRO has a single storyline that your character directly participates in throughout his or her entire career. It's well written, challenging, and makes you feel much more involved in the world. Plus it gives you more than a few surprises along the way.
- nice music
Very true! LotRO is the only game where I leave the music turned on (at 10% volume). In WoW, I turned it off long ago.
- you don't need to play all night, you can play 1H , 30 mn if you like
I feel that this isn't much different from WoW. Both games have a lot of content that you can take in bite-sized chunks. Both games also have content that takes a LONG session. I recently did a quest in Moria that took me almost two hours of non-stop fighting just to get to the quest location. Of course, that would have been much quicker with a group, but I felt like soloing it at the time and had the time available.
- no bashing
That's really back to the more pleasant community. LotRO has a higher average player age than WoW, and it makes a huge difference.
- The world of Tolkien
Yes, it's nice being able to encounter old friends like Gandalf, Frodo, Aragorn, etc. But it goes way beyond this. WoW is based on the lore of the Warcraft games. If it was all written out, how many pages would it come to? Fewer than 50, to be sure.
LotRO is based on the lore of the Lord of the Rings books, and also includes elements from and references to Tolkien's many other works. The game world actually feels ancient. In general, not only does LotRO have more lore to draw from but it uses that lore in a much more profound and involving way.
I try not to argue about what is better either WoW or Lotro, I prefer Lotro but that is my personal opinion and it is because lotro has more things that I like about it. I dont think their is a better game between these two they both have good points and bad points.
Graphics dont make the game guys, and lets be real LOTRO has some major flaws, most of the time it is spent solo, no real reason to group.
No but graphics are certainly a part of the game and LOTRO is trumping WOW there atleast for most.And where exactly is most time in LOTRO spent solo?LOTRO is full of group quests that do not require an instance run which is as I recall how most of WOW grouping is done there are no quests out i the world that require a group or I would guess not as many as in LOTRO,and honestly why do you need a reason to group?You sound like you enjoy grouping and if that's the case the more mature audience of LOTRO is much easier to find people to group with than WOW.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Lotro used to be great to play because it was laid-back and not gear-based. Unfortunately that is no longer the case past lvl 50. The worst part is the extreme randomness of the drops. Furthermore crafting has been completely abandoned with the recent patches. However, if you get you friend to start playing Lotro now, you might have him up to max level a few months from now when they fix the problems. (or make them worse, who knows)
That's funny you said that because all I've done this past week is fill orders for crafted legendary weapons ad gather mats for my armoursmith to craft my lvl 60 champ his craft guild suit.I'm totally lost because I simply can't agree with anything you say are there armours more powerful than crafted sure if you want to play this game like wow and just raid constantly waiting for your chance to wina roll on some sort of radiance gear.And the crafting guilds just came out with the latest expansion so how do you figure crafting was abandoned?
And lastly this post illustrates the best thing about LOTRO OUR COMMUNITY how many times have you seen a post like this and not seen people resort to trolling and player bashing even those who made points we didn't agree with were treated with respect and fairness.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Originally posted by grandpagamer I agree that the LOTRO crafting is far superior to WOW but i think the game with the most fun crafting system,of the games ive played, is EQ2. Every item made is a mini game of sorts.
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you are trying to say first off your definition of high/low fantasy is wrong the difference between high and low fantasy is mostly in what you will encounter AOC is based off of a low fantasy ip both wow and lotro are high fantasy.And I played both games to end game wow is no more epic than lotro is.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Having played both my money goes to Blizzard. Why? There are many more things to do, things to entertain. it all depends on what you are looking for though.
Lotro is a great game, I almost bought the expansion so I could try a warden but I had already spent too much on games in recent times and had just bought an Xbox so I didn't buy MoM. To me WoW is still king of the hill with oodles of content and polish. I also have less time these days so any game that bottle necks me into group only content ( epic quest lines ) loses brownie points. MIssing out on Epic story lines FTL.
For now I am content running BG's, Wintergrasp, Heroics and some alt leveling all at my own pace. I will call back in on Lotro some day, even if just to awe at the wonderous landscapes, and to try a warden .
Originally posted by grandpagamer I agree that the LOTRO crafting is far superior to WOW but i think the game with the most fun crafting system,of the games ive played, is EQ2. Every item made is a mini game of sorts.
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you are trying to say first off your definition of high/low fantasy is wrong the difference between high and low fantasy is mostly in what you will encounter AOC is based off of a low fantasy ip both wow and lotro are high fantasy.And I played both games to end game wow is no more epic than lotro is.
I understand what both of you are saying, but yeah, they're both high fantasy titles. World of Warcraft just has a lighter and more colorful mood and atmosphere and just overall more high fantasy everywhere you look. Compared to WoW, LoTRO can feel low-fantasy, but you're right, AoC and titles similar are actually your low fantasy setting.
However, LoTRO feels more epic than wow, just the mood and atmosphere for the world in general.
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
You are using the term High Fantasy in a wrong way again Daffid.
High Fantasy has nothing to do with the amount of colors and "imagination" used on creatures and landscapes, it is more related to the moral aspect.
Good and Evil are much more difined in Lord of The Rings than WoW, Warhammer, Everquest2 and Vanguard, the definition of good and evil is very, very clear in Tolkien´s work, in the MMORPG version of Lord of the Rings the lack of depth on the evil side is clear, they are totally "EVIL"...
Age of Conan is the most Low Fantasy title, good and evil are not clear in Aion too, but Lotro is one of the most clear example of High Fantasy.
Mythological and imaginary creatures are part of Fantasy (low and high) and myths, not the definition of it.
The realism of Low Fantasy is not related to the color of the trees or the size of a creature´s ears, it is related to depth of feelings, emotions, moral, sexuality etc.
WoW and Lotro are both High Fantasy, it doesnt matter wich one has more colors, Lotro is "a bit more High Fantasy" than WoW...
I need some arguments that prefer LOTRO over WOW. This isn't debate to convince which game is better in your opinion, i just need some good points in LOTRO to convince friend of mine to agree this opinion.
Thanks for advance.
If your friend likes pvp, then he probably won't like LOTRO. As bad as WoW's pvp is, LOTRO is far worse.
In all honesty, both WoW and LOTRO are very similar in the way they play. They're both pve centric games with lots of quests to do and raids (less so in LOTRO though) and follow the tank/dps/healing class model. I will say, though, that LOTRO has a MUCH friendlier community.
It just comes down to a personal prference in the end.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
You are using the term High Fantasy in a wrong way again Daffid.
High Fantasy has nothing to do with the amount of colors and "imagination" used on creatures and landscapes, it is more related to the moral aspect.
Good and Evil are much more difined in Lord of The Rings than WoW, Warhammer, Everquest2 and Vanguard, the definition of good and evil is very, very clear in Tolkien´s work, in the MMORPG version of Lord of the Rings the lack of depth on the evil side is clear, they are totally "EVIL"...
Age of Conan is the most Low Fantasy title, good and evil are not clear in Aion too, but Lotro is one of the most clear example of High Fantasy.
Mythological and imaginary creatures are part of Fantasy (low and high) and myths, not the definition of it.
The realism of Low Fantasy is not related to the color of the trees or the size of a creature´s ears, it is related to depth of feelings, emotions, moral, sexuality etc.
WoW and Lotro are both High Fantasy, it doesnt matter wich one has more colors, Lotro is "a bit more High Fantasy" than WoW...
...
Terminology aside, what I am trying to say I think still holds true.
Lotro presents one consistent story line with some sub plots that mostly relate back to the major theme. It is a steady story that is woven through out the whole game.
Wow is more about epic danger from different sources in every little hub of the world. Sometimes from dragons, sometimes from undead, sometimes from murlocks, some evil mage, a group of corrupted furbolgs, etc. Sometimes there is a central story sometimes not. It is "high fantasy" on steroids. More like many short stories that happen to be bound in the same book if you that explains it better.
The way I keep referring to low/high fantasy goes back to my live action role playing days and the "fantasy" factor involved in games/plots. Sorry if that is confusing.
Both games offer different approaches which I think is the biggest difference between the games. Otherwise they share most major aspects.
...Wow is more about epic danger from different sources in every little hub of the world. Sometimes from dragons, sometimes from undead, sometimes from murlocks, some evil mage, a group of corrupted furbolgs, etc. Sometimes there is a central story sometimes not. It is "high fantasy" on steroids. More like many short stories that happen to be bound in the same book if you that explains it better. The way I keep referring to low/high fantasy goes back to my live action role playing days and the "fantasy" factor involved in games/plots. Sorry if that is confusing.
You are wrong about Low/High Fantasy definitions Daffid.
Then just replace low/high fantasy with some other term and read the point I am trying to make. I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you if you can't get past that.
This thread is the first time ive ever heard the term low fantasy. Fantasy, yes, high fantasy yes, low fantasy? Please give me a break, some people would argue with a dead mouse. Lord of the RIngs has Ents....talking trees = high fantasy. WOW has fish people who mumble/talk..= high fantasy. King Arthur = fantasy...if you wanna really get crazy you could say WOW has gone way beyond high fantasy with crashing flying saucers and motor cycles but that is another argument for you guys to go nuts over.
This thread is the first time ive ever heard the term low fantasy. Fantasy, yes, high fantasy yes, low fantasy? Please give me a break, some people would argue with a dead mouse. Lord of the RIngs has Ents....talking trees = high fantasy. WOW has fish people who mumble/talk..= high fantasy. King Arthur = fantasy...if you wanna really get crazy you could say WOW has gone way beyond high fantasy with crashing flying saucers and motor cycles but that is another argument for you guys to go nuts over.
"Low fantasy is an umbrella term, describing various works within different sub-genres of fantasy, to contrast specific works with high fantasy. Though a vague term, some features that may indicate low fantasy are: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy. An archetypal example of low fantasy might take place in a quasi-historical setting where the protagonists lack a clear moral initiative, are haunted by dark pasts or character flaws and where conventional fantasy elements (such as magic, elves, or dwarves) are lacking or absent.
There are many arguments about what constitutes the line between Low and High fantasy, but invariably in High Fantasy there is a moral dichotomy of altruistic good and irredeemable evil, and in low fantasy there are many shades of gray, where the "main character" is often an anti-hero."
King Arthur is a legend, composed of folklore and literary invention, not exacly Low or High fantasy...
No one is going nuts grandpa, just showing why Lord of the Rings is not Low Fantasy...you never heard of Low fantasy, but well, it is a common and well known term.
Comments
./bump! *laughs* Me likey this!
Pretty much how it works minus one detail , PvMP vs PvP, PvMP me not likey !!!!! Unfortunately because Laurelin EU is one of the best servers i played at Overall in many games!
Signature!!!...
Great post.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
Click combine... wait... wait... wait... reactions, click counter reaction... wait... wait... wait..
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
Great post.
Aye, great posts throughout aurick, this is probably the most peaceful, intelligent thread I've seen here for days!
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Not even true and it is what you make it to be. If you can't find a "Fellowship" then check your breath. You can solo when you wish, or you can "Fellowship" when you wish. As for a reason to "Fellowship", ask any 6/6 in the game.
What Makes LOTRO great to me is the world, story, and community. I can't think of any other game where I can go to a stage and see a band playing songs for the audience while we just sit and chat. The epic storyline and to a lesser extent the normal quest stories all tie in to one larger story which is very interesting and fun.
My only problems are Moria the enemies are way to densly packed :P And I'm not sure I like the whole legendary system. It's way too random for my tastes. But some people love it so again its personal prefernce.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
- one of the most beautiful graphics with AOC
- one of the best communities
- a lot of content since the release
- a huge world : from Shire to Moria for the moment
- very good storyline
- nice music
- you don't need to play all night, you can play 1H , 30 mn if you like
- no bashing
- The world of Tolkien
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I dont even know if WoW even can hang on to "Low Fantasy" ever since I've touched that game its been a boring, bland, easy game. And im a lore maniac so i did read through the history of wow... (which in my oppinion looked like someone copy pasted some stuff from (insert religion here) , then some warhammer lore) anyway to end this rant before it gets outta hand... Wow is only played because Everyone else does-syndrome, i played because of my friends. They played because of their friends etc etc etc. Its a easy game to master and fast to hit 80. Also the community is small 13 year old kiddies. And i wont talk about lotro cause i havent played alot, but the start was definitly nice, classes are cool, not alot of the whole "kill x for y npc's to get z amount of gold" (although every mmo has that though lotro has alot of various quests) and i mean who doesnt love a game with its OWN lore?
I'd just like to add some elaboration to these great points:
- one of the most beautiful graphics with AOC
World graphics -- especially with DirectX -- are very much on a par with AoC for sheer beauty. Character graphics are higher quality than WoW, with many more polygons, resulting in much smoother models. Many people do honestly dislike the look of LotRO's characters, but that's mostly due to the armor styles which are meant to be relatively historical. As ugly as some of that stuff is by modern standards, it's actually pretty darned true to what was worn in the Middle Ages.
Anyway, LotRO does manage to be nearly as beautiful as (and in a few ways more beautiful than) AoC and it accomplishes this with almost no instancing.
- one of the best communities
This is a HUGE change from WoW. Because LotRO doesn't have world PvP, the griefers look to games like WoW or AoC. This has had a profound effect on the community as a whole, since the game tends to be populated with friendlier, helpful, and generally more mature people.
Also, because raids only need 12 people and only the Watcher needs special gear you will find that Kinships are more about socializing and generally having fun together than they are about gear grinds and raiding schedules. If you want to raid, great. If you don't, who cares?
- a lot of content since the release
WoW tends to focus on small free updates every few months such as an occasional new raid and then one large expansion every two years. LotRO tends to have small updates monthly, large updates every few months (usually introducing two whole zones a year) and one huge paid expansion each year. The result is that WoW tends to feel very stale after a while, yet LotRO constantly feels like there's something new.
LotRO definitely provides new content at a much faster pace than WoW, and makes much of it free.
- a huge world : from Shire to Moria for the moment
"From Shire to Moria" is deceptive, since the game world also includes a lot of places that aren't in the books except peripherally. Evendim, Angmar, Forochel and the North Downs, for example.
In terms of square miles, WoW is larger than LotRO. Yet LotRO tends to feel more epic in scale and the content is also much more densely packed. You'll come back to most zones multiple times across a span of many levels before you've finally exhausted them.
- very good storyline
WoW has no real storyline. There's nebulous stuff going on in the background that you sometimes encounter but rarely interact directly with except at highest levels and even then usually only through raiding.
LotRO has a single storyline that your character directly participates in throughout his or her entire career. It's well written, challenging, and makes you feel much more involved in the world. Plus it gives you more than a few surprises along the way.
- nice music
Very true! LotRO is the only game where I leave the music turned on (at 10% volume). In WoW, I turned it off long ago.
- you don't need to play all night, you can play 1H , 30 mn if you like
I feel that this isn't much different from WoW. Both games have a lot of content that you can take in bite-sized chunks. Both games also have content that takes a LONG session. I recently did a quest in Moria that took me almost two hours of non-stop fighting just to get to the quest location. Of course, that would have been much quicker with a group, but I felt like soloing it at the time and had the time available.
- no bashing
That's really back to the more pleasant community. LotRO has a higher average player age than WoW, and it makes a huge difference.
- The world of Tolkien
Yes, it's nice being able to encounter old friends like Gandalf, Frodo, Aragorn, etc. But it goes way beyond this. WoW is based on the lore of the Warcraft games. If it was all written out, how many pages would it come to? Fewer than 50, to be sure.
LotRO is based on the lore of the Lord of the Rings books, and also includes elements from and references to Tolkien's many other works. The game world actually feels ancient. In general, not only does LotRO have more lore to draw from but it uses that lore in a much more profound and involving way.
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I try not to argue about what is better either WoW or Lotro, I prefer Lotro but that is my personal opinion and it is because lotro has more things that I like about it. I dont think their is a better game between these two they both have good points and bad points.
Aion Quests Guide
No but graphics are certainly a part of the game and LOTRO is trumping WOW there atleast for most.And where exactly is most time in LOTRO spent solo?LOTRO is full of group quests that do not require an instance run which is as I recall how most of WOW grouping is done there are no quests out i the world that require a group or I would guess not as many as in LOTRO,and honestly why do you need a reason to group?You sound like you enjoy grouping and if that's the case the more mature audience of LOTRO is much easier to find people to group with than WOW.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
That's funny you said that because all I've done this past week is fill orders for crafted legendary weapons ad gather mats for my armoursmith to craft my lvl 60 champ his craft guild suit.I'm totally lost because I simply can't agree with anything you say are there armours more powerful than crafted sure if you want to play this game like wow and just raid constantly waiting for your chance to wina roll on some sort of radiance gear.And the crafting guilds just came out with the latest expansion so how do you figure crafting was abandoned?
And lastly this post illustrates the best thing about LOTRO OUR COMMUNITY how many times have you seen a post like this and not seen people resort to trolling and player bashing even those who made points we didn't agree with were treated with respect and fairness.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
Click combine... wait... wait... wait... reactions, click counter reaction... wait... wait... wait..
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you are trying to say first off your definition of high/low fantasy is wrong the difference between high and low fantasy is mostly in what you will encounter AOC is based off of a low fantasy ip both wow and lotro are high fantasy.And I played both games to end game wow is no more epic than lotro is.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Having played both my money goes to Blizzard. Why? There are many more things to do, things to entertain. it all depends on what you are looking for though.
Lotro is a great game, I almost bought the expansion so I could try a warden but I had already spent too much on games in recent times and had just bought an Xbox so I didn't buy MoM. To me WoW is still king of the hill with oodles of content and polish. I also have less time these days so any game that bottle necks me into group only content ( epic quest lines ) loses brownie points. MIssing out on Epic story lines FTL.
For now I am content running BG's, Wintergrasp, Heroics and some alt leveling all at my own pace. I will call back in on Lotro some day, even if just to awe at the wonderous landscapes, and to try a warden
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/wave
EQ2 crafting is like playing that old school electronic simon says game in a slow motion.
Click combine... wait... wait... wait... reactions, click counter reaction... wait... wait... wait..
I'm not sold that the crafting in LOTRO is a worthwhile mention of being better than most games. It wasn't to tedious to be a negative aspect which is good. I wouldn't argue with anyone that says it is enjoyable and it certainly has its uses, maybe a bit to much by competing with actual gameplay rewards.
Some of the real strengths of the game are its social mechanics. The music system is wonderful and encourages people work together. Player housing, while complete fluff encourages player interaction on a social measure. The central storyline encourages people to get together to complete the journey. Even the monster play is an interesting attempt to get people to take turns fighting against each other without dividing the community into 2 different factions (though I think that works better in mmos).
The biggest difference I think you might find is that wow caters to high fantasy with epic adventures everywhere. Lotro focuses on low fantasy with a consistent theme draping across the world.
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you are trying to say first off your definition of high/low fantasy is wrong the difference between high and low fantasy is mostly in what you will encounter AOC is based off of a low fantasy ip both wow and lotro are high fantasy.And I played both games to end game wow is no more epic than lotro is.
I understand what both of you are saying, but yeah, they're both high fantasy titles. World of Warcraft just has a lighter and more colorful mood and atmosphere and just overall more high fantasy everywhere you look. Compared to WoW, LoTRO can feel low-fantasy, but you're right, AoC and titles similar are actually your low fantasy setting.
However, LoTRO feels more epic than wow, just the mood and atmosphere for the world in general.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
You are using the term High Fantasy in a wrong way again Daffid.
High Fantasy has nothing to do with the amount of colors and "imagination" used on creatures and landscapes, it is more related to the moral aspect.
Good and Evil are much more difined in Lord of The Rings than WoW, Warhammer, Everquest2 and Vanguard, the definition of good and evil is very, very clear in Tolkien´s work, in the MMORPG version of Lord of the Rings the lack of depth on the evil side is clear, they are totally "EVIL"...
Age of Conan is the most Low Fantasy title, good and evil are not clear in Aion too, but Lotro is one of the most clear example of High Fantasy.
Mythological and imaginary creatures are part of Fantasy (low and high) and myths, not the definition of it.
The realism of Low Fantasy is not related to the color of the trees or the size of a creature´s ears, it is related to depth of feelings, emotions, moral, sexuality etc.
WoW and Lotro are both High Fantasy, it doesnt matter wich one has more colors, Lotro is "a bit more High Fantasy" than WoW...
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If your friend likes pvp, then he probably won't like LOTRO. As bad as WoW's pvp is, LOTRO is far worse.
In all honesty, both WoW and LOTRO are very similar in the way they play. They're both pve centric games with lots of quests to do and raids (less so in LOTRO though) and follow the tank/dps/healing class model. I will say, though, that LOTRO has a MUCH friendlier community.
It just comes down to a personal prference in the end.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I'm sorry, but you need to check out your definitions before making a post like that.
Lord of the Rings is high fantasy. In fact, it was one of the seminal works within the high fantasy genre.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy): "High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy came to fruition through the work of authors such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s. High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy."
LotRO are and WoW are both examples of high fantasy, although if anything WoW comes closer to falling into the Sword and Sorcery subgenre. In fact, WoW is very nearly low fantasy. After all, high fantasy has a clear demarcation between ultimate good and ultimate evil. LotRO has that with the Free Peoples and the Fellowship of the Ring vs. the forces of Angmar, Saruman and Mordor. Low fantasy, on the other hand, is characterized by shades of grey with neither side being clearly good or evil. That pretty much defines the Horde and Alliance factions in WoW, doesn't it?
Who am I to argue with what wikipedia says. =P
However that is just how I feel about it. LOTRO focuses on mostly human struggles. Tall humans, short fat humans and slender humans with pointed ears vs orcs with a few high fantasy monsters sprinkled around that give the story some real flare. Seeing a dragon or some mythical creature is a rare event in most peoples lives and more often just something of bedtime stories. Much of the struggles in the game come from how man sways between good and evil and the relationships between the races of "good".
Wow is much higher volume of high fantasy. Dragons, lizard people, undead, minotaurs, demons, yetis, are commonplace events that take place in every village you will visit. Mythical creatures are not something of bedtime stories, they are something that beat down the bedroom door every night. I wasn't referring to horde vs alliance, but rather the volume of high fantasy that is the basis of wow.
Don't take this as one setting being better than the other, because each has its strengths and weaknesses. I was just trying to say that on a scale of Lowfantasy <-----> Highfantasy where each game falls as described above. Maybe I could have been a little more descriptive in what I meant.
You are using the term High Fantasy in a wrong way again Daffid.
High Fantasy has nothing to do with the amount of colors and "imagination" used on creatures and landscapes, it is more related to the moral aspect.
Good and Evil are much more difined in Lord of The Rings than WoW, Warhammer, Everquest2 and Vanguard, the definition of good and evil is very, very clear in Tolkien´s work, in the MMORPG version of Lord of the Rings the lack of depth on the evil side is clear, they are totally "EVIL"...
Age of Conan is the most Low Fantasy title, good and evil are not clear in Aion too, but Lotro is one of the most clear example of High Fantasy.
Mythological and imaginary creatures are part of Fantasy (low and high) and myths, not the definition of it.
The realism of Low Fantasy is not related to the color of the trees or the size of a creature´s ears, it is related to depth of feelings, emotions, moral, sexuality etc.
WoW and Lotro are both High Fantasy, it doesnt matter wich one has more colors, Lotro is "a bit more High Fantasy" than WoW...
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Terminology aside, what I am trying to say I think still holds true.
Lotro presents one consistent story line with some sub plots that mostly relate back to the major theme. It is a steady story that is woven through out the whole game.
Wow is more about epic danger from different sources in every little hub of the world. Sometimes from dragons, sometimes from undead, sometimes from murlocks, some evil mage, a group of corrupted furbolgs, etc. Sometimes there is a central story sometimes not. It is "high fantasy" on steroids. More like many short stories that happen to be bound in the same book if you that explains it better.
The way I keep referring to low/high fantasy goes back to my live action role playing days and the "fantasy" factor involved in games/plots. Sorry if that is confusing.
Both games offer different approaches which I think is the biggest difference between the games. Otherwise they share most major aspects.
You are wrong about Low/High Fantasy definitions Daffid.
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Then just replace low/high fantasy with some other term and read the point I am trying to make. I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you if you can't get past that.
This thread is the first time ive ever heard the term low fantasy. Fantasy, yes, high fantasy yes, low fantasy? Please give me a break, some people would argue with a dead mouse. Lord of the RIngs has Ents....talking trees = high fantasy. WOW has fish people who mumble/talk..= high fantasy. King Arthur = fantasy...if you wanna really get crazy you could say WOW has gone way beyond high fantasy with crashing flying saucers and motor cycles but that is another argument for you guys to go nuts over.
That is pretty close to what I was getting at grandpa
"Low fantasy is an umbrella term, describing various works within different sub-genres of fantasy, to contrast specific works with high fantasy. Though a vague term, some features that may indicate low fantasy are: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy. An archetypal example of low fantasy might take place in a quasi-historical setting where the protagonists lack a clear moral initiative, are haunted by dark pasts or character flaws and where conventional fantasy elements (such as magic, elves, or dwarves) are lacking or absent.
There are many arguments about what constitutes the line between Low and High fantasy, but invariably in High Fantasy there is a moral dichotomy of altruistic good and irredeemable evil, and in low fantasy there are many shades of gray, where the "main character" is often an anti-hero."
King Arthur is a legend, composed of folklore and literary invention, not exacly Low or High fantasy...
No one is going nuts grandpa, just showing why Lord of the Rings is not Low Fantasy...you never heard of Low fantasy, but well, it is a common and well known term.
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