for what its worth, in the month I've played lotro, i've had amazing success with pugs. The lack of a built in antagonistic dynamic between the players seems imo to have led to a saner community. Although I realize that is not necessarily a positive feature for a lot of players.
This thread is the first time ive ever heard the term low fantasy. Fantasy, yes, high fantasy yes, low fantasy? Please give me a break, some people would argue with a dead mouse. Lord of the RIngs has Ents....talking trees = high fantasy. WOW has fish people who mumble/talk..= high fantasy. King Arthur = fantasy...if you wanna really get crazy you could say WOW has gone way beyond high fantasy with crashing flying saucers and motor cycles but that is another argument for you guys to go nuts over.
"Low fantasy is an umbrella term, describing various works within different sub-genres of fantasy, to contrast specific works with high fantasy. Though a vague term, some features that may indicate low fantasy are: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy. An archetypal example of low fantasy might take place in a quasi-historical setting where the protagonists lack a clear moral initiative, are haunted by dark pasts or character flaws and where conventional fantasy elements (such as magic, elves, or dwarves) are lacking or absent.
There are many arguments about what constitutes the line between Low and High fantasy, but invariably in High Fantasy there is a moral dichotomy of altruistic good and irredeemable evil, and in low fantasy there are many shades of gray, where the "main character" is often an anti-hero."
King Arthur is a legend, composed of folklore and literary invention, not exacly Low or High fantasy...
No one is going nuts grandpa, just showing why Lord of the Rings is not Low Fantasy...you never heard of Low fantasy, but well, it is a common and well known term.
...
Deja vú
I define it as Lotr is a high fantasy stroy but a low fantasy world, but this is compared to modern fantasy.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
It's a common temptation to equate "high" and "low" with quantity. So it's easily misconceived that a world with many fantasy elements is high fantasy while a world with few fantasy elements is low fantasy. But that is a misuse of the term.
High Fantasy and Low Fantasy as definitions of genre have nothing to do with the amount of fantasy elements or the presense of magic. Those things are common in ALL fantasy. Instead, High Fantasy has a theme that runs above the basic fantasy theme. It goes into the realm of an epic, good vs. evil conflict. Low Fantasy is then anything that's left -- all fantasy books and themes that don't have the epic good vs. evil theme or that blur the lines between the two.
Daffid, I understand where you're coming from. But you can't just make up your own definitions for the terms. If you want to say that WoW has more fantasy elements than LotRO, you will completely accurate. But Lord of the Rings is one of the defining works within the High Fantasy genre. Lord of the Rings Online remains High Fantasy because although it sidelines the storyline from the books it still has its own epic questline that plays out firmly within the good vs. evil theme.
Lotro used to be great to play because it was laid-back and not gear-based. Unfortunately that is no longer the case past lvl 50. The worst part is the extreme randomness of the drops. Furthermore crafting has been completely abandoned with the recent patches. However, if you get you friend to start playing Lotro now, you might have him up to max level a few months from now when they fix the problems. (or make them worse, who knows)
Thanks for saying that....we shall see what they do in the next few months. I sure hope Turbine gets the end game back on track. SoA (the lvl 1 to 50 area)still is the best game in MMORPG's in my humble opinion.
Although pink haired gnomes on Harleys ....hmmm might have to reconsider. : )
Ok, I admitted I was using the terms wrong as they are defined and even how I incorrectly learned them in my past with larps. If I wasn't clear about that I apologize once again. I'm not trying to redefine high/low fantasy, so please look past my misunderstanding of the terms.
Simply put I was trying to describe the different atmospheres in each game if we can get past my mistake I would appreciate it.
Call me stupid but I think that a game with motorcycles, aliens and helicopters is more high fantasy. I understand the litteral definition. But, if you ask most gamers what is more high fantasy, they will say WoW is..
Yeah I agree with you, those 3 things = high fantasy.
and you are most likely right most gamers would say that WoW is higher fantasy
Call me stupid but I think that a game with motorcycles, aliens and helicopters is more high fantasy. I understand the litteral definition. But, if you ask most gamers what is more high fantasy, they will say WoW is..
Yeah I agree with you, those 3 things = high fantasy.
and you are most likely right most gamers would say that WoW is higher fantasy
Personally i would say WOW has gone beyond fantasy and is more a hybrid of fantasy/sci fi. And while the subject has taken this turn can anyone explain to me why a race of beings with space flight technology use maces and swords instead of something more high tech? Helicopters, motorcycles and a freeking spaceship, whats next? Sorry folks the true definition of high fantasy can be debated for years but what Blizzard has done is not what i consider fantasy, im not sure what it is.
Lotro used to be great to play because it was laid-back and not gear-based. Unfortunately that is no longer the case past lvl 50. The worst part is the extreme randomness of the drops. Furthermore crafting has been completely abandoned with the recent patches. However, if you get you friend to start playing Lotro now, you might have him up to max level a few months from now when they fix the problems. (or make them worse, who knows)
Thanks for saying that....we shall see what they do in the next few months. I sure hope Turbine gets the end game back on track. SoA (the lvl 1 to 50 area)still is the best game in MMORPG's in my humble opinion.
Although pink haired gnomes on Harleys ....hmmm might have to reconsider. : )
He dosn't know what hes talking about. I guess crafting instances, and the new tier, as well as crafting guilds = Crafting has been abandoned.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
The world is a lot more real in LotRO. Still stylized, but not cartoony. Beyond pure looks, though, it just feels more alive and more believable. Zones flow together in a way that's natural. Grass ripples by moonlight. Flocks of birds will occasionally fly overhead. Weather effects make WoW's look like amateur hour. There are also focus points everywhere that tease you off the main path. The game constantly plays off your curiosity by showing you some ruin or other point of interest that teases you into finally checking out. LotRO is a journey, where WoW is a destination. By this I mean that WoW is all about getting you to max level, where the game totally changes. Everything before that is really just fluff to teach you how to play your character. In LotRO, the Epic quest line goes far to make you feel a lot more involved in the world and make each region more meaningful. There's more content than a single character can do, so you focus on what interests you the most. But you really want to focus on the moment, rather than on getting to the end as quick as possible. After all, there's still years of content left to come out as the game moves toward Gondor and ultimately Moria. Character customization as you play is also a major improvement over WoW. In WoW you get a new talent point at each level and spend it on one of three trees. It's very linear, and the system begs players to create or follow "flavor of the month" builds. Character customization is really a copycat system. LotRO rewards you for doing things. The deeds system pretty much guarantees that few players will have exactly the same build; especially before level 60. Then there are also the two Outfits that you get at level 20, which help you look how you want to look rather than being stuck with whatever hodgepodge gives you the best stats. And once you reach 45, the Legendary System is just amazing. Odds are good that no two legendary items will ever be exactly the same. Of course, LotRO has housing and WoW doesn't. It's not terribly meaningful, but it's there and helps you feel more connected to the world. Plus the kinship housing is great for bringing guilds together outside of raids. And yes, the community is a whole lot different in LotRO than in WoW. Much easier to find helpful and friendly people. More intelligent chat channels. Ultimately, I think WoW feels a lot like Disneyland. Mercilessly streamlined fun, all exactly the same as everyone else's, packaged and marketed until you want to scream. It anticipates every need you have before you even knew you had it, and doesn't make you really work for anything. (At least until end game.) LotRO is more like taking the family to Yellowstone. You can sign up for all the nature hikes, bus tours, etc. Or you can just get out and explore what might be around the next corner.
Good argument...
I've been playing wow since forever... I recently bought Lotro (because now I have a computer that can play it with ULTRA HIGH settings on EVERYTHING)... and... I APPROVE THIS POST!!!
Thats one thing I did not like about wow so much, the fact that its graphics are very cartoonly but some people actually like that. overall I think people just have different tastes and both games excell in some areas where the other does not.
LOTR gets boring fast as there is no world PvP, basically you feel safe all the time WOW (PvP servers) have you on your toes all the time adding atmosphere as you never feel safe and this is why WOW will always be a better game imo
Ok unless they changed something PvP servers never made me feel like I should be on my toes. Its not like there were gangs running around killing people on site everywhere. SO did something change in WOW when it comes to that? As for LOTRO I agree no world PvP sucks but it is a different style of game completely, but still spoon fed quests but at least you feel more a part of the story then you ever did in WOW.
LOTR gets boring fast as there is no world PvP, basically you feel safe all the time WOW (PvP servers) have you on your toes all the time adding atmosphere as you never feel safe and this is why WOW will always be a better game imo
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
LOTRO is for people who, don't really play. If you like being a part of a world, play LOTRO. If you want to engage yourself online, play WoW. I mean, crafted items in LOTRO are better than Raid items, which tells you, that this will gonna be a very "passive" game.
I do think that some times it would be nice to have PvP in the open world in lotro but then one of the things I like about lotro is the fact that there is no PvP in open places, IF I really wanted PvP like that I would play WoW.
Okay, first off as others have said - LotRO has a free trial, very nice one running right now in fact which would let your friend subscribe for only $9.99/month at the end, so now is a great time to check it out.
Reasons I like LotRO more than WoW:
The first and biggest is simply the looks. LotRO looks more real, the graphics overall are better done, less cartoony and pastel.
Next would be the writing, while I admit some quests are boring and suck; overall LotRO has much more interesting quests/stories than WoW - enough to actually bother reading them rather than just clicking past the annoying boxes of text.
It's Middle Earth, 'nuf said. (Could it have been done better/differently, sure - but it *is* still middle earth and inherently more interesting than the lame ass Warhammer universe knock off that WoW is)
Crafting: again, has some issues - but it is 1000% better in LotRO than in WoW; not only can you make stuff that your characters will use all the way up, you can often even actually sell product to other players - even at the highest levels.
As for the PvP....it's basically a joke and non-existant in LotRO...but then again it sucks really bad and is pointless in WoW too, so not like you are losing much.
The world is a lot more real in LotRO. Still stylized, but not cartoony. Beyond pure looks, though, it just feels more alive and more believable. Zones flow together in a way that's natural. Grass ripples by moonlight. Flocks of birds will occasionally fly overhead. Weather effects make WoW's look like amateur hour. There are also focus points everywhere that tease you off the main path. The game constantly plays off your curiosity by showing you some ruin or other point of interest that teases you into finally checking out. LotRO is a journey, where WoW is a destination. By this I mean that WoW is all about getting you to max level, where the game totally changes. Everything before that is really just fluff to teach you how to play your character. In LotRO, the Epic quest line goes far to make you feel a lot more involved in the world and make each region more meaningful. There's more content than a single character can do, so you focus on what interests you the most. But you really want to focus on the moment, rather than on getting to the end as quick as possible. After all, there's still years of content left to come out as the game moves toward Gondor and ultimately Moria. Character customization as you play is also a major improvement over WoW. In WoW you get a new talent point at each level and spend it on one of three trees. It's very linear, and the system begs players to create or follow "flavor of the month" builds. Character customization is really a copycat system. LotRO rewards you for doing things. The deeds system pretty much guarantees that few players will have exactly the same build; especially before level 60. Then there are also the two Outfits that you get at level 20, which help you look how you want to look rather than being stuck with whatever hodgepodge gives you the best stats. And once you reach 45, the Legendary System is just amazing. Odds are good that no two legendary items will ever be exactly the same. Of course, LotRO has housing and WoW doesn't. It's not terribly meaningful, but it's there and helps you feel more connected to the world. Plus the kinship housing is great for bringing guilds together outside of raids. And yes, the community is a whole lot different in LotRO than in WoW. Much easier to find helpful and friendly people. More intelligent chat channels. Ultimately, I think WoW feels a lot like Disneyland. Mercilessly streamlined fun, all exactly the same as everyone else's, packaged and marketed until you want to scream. It anticipates every need you have before you even knew you had it, and doesn't make you really work for anything. (At least until end game.) LotRO is more like taking the family to Yellowstone. You can sign up for all the nature hikes, bus tours, etc. Or you can just get out and explore what might be around the next corner.
Good argument...
I've been playing wow since forever... I recently bought Lotro (because now I have a computer that can play it with ULTRA HIGH settings on EVERYTHING)... and... I APPROVE THIS POST!!!
This post nails it.
Played WoW for far to long and tried many other games - AoC, WAR, HGL (cough), EVE. the depth of LOTRO simply blows me away. The game rewards and encourages you to do things such as exploring. The classes are unique and play differently from other games (although that could be because I am playing a LM rather than a pure DPS/healer/tank class). The story is excellent. Graphics are second only to AoC. All told, a great game. LOTRO offers a richer gameplay experience. Only draw back that I can see is maybe PvP, but its all in what you want out of the game. In my case, now, I'm not that interested in PvP. Give me a few months and maybe I'll see how WAR is hanging in there again.
You will never convince him to play it unless he wants to, unless he is very weak minded, in which case, why is he your friend.
That said, many of the systems and concepts in LoTRO far outmatch WoW, but I can't stand LoTRO *because* I love the lore so much. I see many people posting about how it is good because it focuses on a story rather than reaching the max level. That isn't entirely true; WoW certainly has a good story, but the sort of people that play it do not care. LoTRO has an interesting story, but there are so many little things I don't like about it that it gets on my nerves.
LoTRO has very beautiful textures and in general the graphics also far outmatch WoW, but the animations drive me crazy, and honestly, are the biggest reason I cannot play this game (again, even though the Lord of the Rings is my favorite story and I followed LoTRO from the start, desperately wanting it to be good.). Even during something as basic as running I can tell so easily that the character is just projected onto the landscape. The characters are great and the landscape is great, but they never look right together and it irks me.
In short, it really is just a personal preference; as someone else said that are both "easymode" in that, for a relatively intelligent person, there is zero challenge in either game. They both have decen graphics, but far different styles; LoTRO has more advanced graphics, but retards making the animations. The stories are both good, but if you want people that care, LoTRO has more of that; however, the LoTRO story takes some major liberties with the original lore (though they do a fine job for the most part) that I personally don't like, but some people wouldn't mind or notice, perhaps.
I say play both, and pick the one you like best, based on whatever criteria you have for what makes a game fun.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
To say that the game's graphics are too "cartoony" is just THEE most PATHETIC excuse to not like a game... learn your gaming history... all ancient games were made as CARTOONY... cartoony is the FOUNDATION of gaming
As for LOTRO vs WOW graphics...
There are only THREE things in Lotro graphics that are NOT cartoony... Sky / Water / Lighting... THREE THINGS... Sky / Water / Lighting... everything else is just as cartoony as WoW...
Originally posted by aurick The world is a lot more real in LotRO. Still stylized, but not cartoony. Beyond pure looks, though, it just feels more alive and more believable. Zones flow together in a way that's natural. Grass ripples by moonlight. Flocks of birds will occasionally fly overhead. Weather effects make WoW's look like amateur hour. There are also focus points everywhere that tease you off the main path. The game constantly plays off your curiosity by showing you some ruin or other point of interest that teases you into finally checking out. LotRO is a journey, where WoW is a destination. By this I mean that WoW is all about getting you to max level, where the game totally changes. Everything before that is really just fluff to teach you how to play your character. In LotRO, the Epic quest line goes far to make you feel a lot more involved in the world and make each region more meaningful. There's more content than a single character can do, so you focus on what interests you the most. But you really want to focus on the moment, rather than on getting to the end as quick as possible. After all, there's still years of content left to come out as the game moves toward Gondor and ultimately Moria. Character customization as you play is also a major improvement over WoW. In WoW you get a new talent point at each level and spend it on one of three trees. It's very linear, and the system begs players to create or follow "flavor of the month" builds. Character customization is really a copycat system. LotRO rewards you for doing things. The deeds system pretty much guarantees that few players will have exactly the same build; especially before level 60. Then there are also the two Outfits that you get at level 20, which help you look how you want to look rather than being stuck with whatever hodgepodge gives you the best stats. And once you reach 45, the Legendary System is just amazing. Odds are good that no two legendary items will ever be exactly the same. Of course, LotRO has housing and WoW doesn't. It's not terribly meaningful, but it's there and helps you feel more connected to the world. Plus the kinship housing is great for bringing guilds together outside of raids. And yes, the community is a whole lot different in LotRO than in WoW. Much easier to find helpful and friendly people. More intelligent chat channels. Ultimately, I think WoW feels a lot like Disneyland. Mercilessly streamlined fun, all exactly the same as everyone else's, packaged and marketed until you want to scream. It anticipates every need you have before you even knew you had it, and doesn't make you really work for anything. (At least until end game.) LotRO is more like taking the family to Yellowstone. You can sign up for all the nature hikes, bus tours, etc. Or you can just get out and explore what might be around the next corner.
Also, this is a fantastic post. LoTRO is a journey, WoW is *all* about being at the endgame; until you get there, you will largely be on your own. I disagree on one point: WoW is certainly a "theme park" in the sense Aurick describes, but so is LoTRO, and one could make the argument that it is more so; the story quests cause all the players to go through the same story and experience the same thing. Granted, the lower level story quests allow you to enter the story at different points and from different angles, which is actually very interesting and well done. However, the same is true of WoW, if you want to go explore you can, and there are many interesting things around; if you do the quests, you will get the same experience, but the low level quests give you a slightly different perspective. In this way, they are very very similar. LoTRO does feel more conducive to the player that wishes to explore, but for someone that want to progress, you get almost no experience from killing enemies in the world, so if you want to level at any kind of "decent" pace, you will end up doing quests, whereas WoW gives you a decent amount of experience from killing enemies and makes this method of leveling while exploring more viable. So they are similar in this way, but go about it indifferent ways.
Either way, they are both rationalized theme parks telling a story. They are both "mercilessly streamlined." You can explore both, but neither make the idea very appealing. Almost all people will do the quests, which is where you get the pre-packaged content that everyone gets and is always the same. You can't tell a story like that without everyone experiencing the same thing. That is why they both do it.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Comments
for what its worth, in the month I've played lotro, i've had amazing success with pugs. The lack of a built in antagonistic dynamic between the players seems imo to have led to a saner community. Although I realize that is not necessarily a positive feature for a lot of players.
"Low fantasy is an umbrella term, describing various works within different sub-genres of fantasy, to contrast specific works with high fantasy. Though a vague term, some features that may indicate low fantasy are: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy. An archetypal example of low fantasy might take place in a quasi-historical setting where the protagonists lack a clear moral initiative, are haunted by dark pasts or character flaws and where conventional fantasy elements (such as magic, elves, or dwarves) are lacking or absent.
There are many arguments about what constitutes the line between Low and High fantasy, but invariably in High Fantasy there is a moral dichotomy of altruistic good and irredeemable evil, and in low fantasy there are many shades of gray, where the "main character" is often an anti-hero."
King Arthur is a legend, composed of folklore and literary invention, not exacly Low or High fantasy...
No one is going nuts grandpa, just showing why Lord of the Rings is not Low Fantasy...you never heard of Low fantasy, but well, it is a common and well known term.
...
Deja vú
I define it as Lotr is a high fantasy stroy but a low fantasy world, but this is compared to modern fantasy.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Indeed Papadam
.
You already know this, but just to be clear, the High/Low Fantasy discussion is not a criticism against Lord of the Rings.
..
It's a common temptation to equate "high" and "low" with quantity. So it's easily misconceived that a world with many fantasy elements is high fantasy while a world with few fantasy elements is low fantasy. But that is a misuse of the term.
High Fantasy and Low Fantasy as definitions of genre have nothing to do with the amount of fantasy elements or the presense of magic. Those things are common in ALL fantasy. Instead, High Fantasy has a theme that runs above the basic fantasy theme. It goes into the realm of an epic, good vs. evil conflict. Low Fantasy is then anything that's left -- all fantasy books and themes that don't have the epic good vs. evil theme or that blur the lines between the two.
Daffid, I understand where you're coming from. But you can't just make up your own definitions for the terms. If you want to say that WoW has more fantasy elements than LotRO, you will completely accurate. But Lord of the Rings is one of the defining works within the High Fantasy genre. Lord of the Rings Online remains High Fantasy because although it sidelines the storyline from the books it still has its own epic questline that plays out firmly within the good vs. evil theme.
Thanks for saying that....we shall see what they do in the next few months. I sure hope Turbine gets the end game back on track. SoA (the lvl 1 to 50 area)still is the best game in MMORPG's in my humble opinion.
Although pink haired gnomes on Harleys ....hmmm might have to reconsider. : )
Ok, I admitted I was using the terms wrong as they are defined and even how I incorrectly learned them in my past with larps. If I wasn't clear about that I apologize once again. I'm not trying to redefine high/low fantasy, so please look past my misunderstanding of the terms.
Simply put I was trying to describe the different atmospheres in each game if we can get past my mistake I would appreciate it.
Grovel, grovel and some more grovel.
Call me stupid but I think that a game with motorcycles, aliens and helicopters is more high fantasy.
I understand the litteral definition. But, if you ask most gamers what is more high fantasy, they will say WoW is..
Yeah I agree with you, those 3 things = high fantasy.
and you are most likely right most gamers would say that WoW is higher fantasy
Aion Quests Guide
Yeah I agree with you, those 3 things = high fantasy.
and you are most likely right most gamers would say that WoW is higher fantasy
Personally i would say WOW has gone beyond fantasy and is more a hybrid of fantasy/sci fi. And while the subject has taken this turn can anyone explain to me why a race of beings with space flight technology use maces and swords instead of something more high tech? Helicopters, motorcycles and a freeking spaceship, whats next? Sorry folks the true definition of high fantasy can be debated for years but what Blizzard has done is not what i consider fantasy, im not sure what it is.
Thanks for saying that....we shall see what they do in the next few months. I sure hope Turbine gets the end game back on track. SoA (the lvl 1 to 50 area)still is the best game in MMORPG's in my humble opinion.
Although pink haired gnomes on Harleys ....hmmm might have to reconsider. : )
He dosn't know what hes talking about. I guess crafting instances, and the new tier, as well as crafting guilds = Crafting has been abandoned.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Good argument...
I've been playing wow since forever... I recently bought Lotro (because now I have a computer that can play it with ULTRA HIGH settings on EVERYTHING)... and... I APPROVE THIS POST!!!
Thats one thing I did not like about wow so much, the fact that its graphics are very cartoonly but some people actually like that. overall I think people just have different tastes and both games excell in some areas where the other does not.
Aion Quests Guide
LOTR gets boring fast as there is no world PvP, basically you feel safe all the time
WOW (PvP servers) have you on your toes all the time adding atmosphere as you never feel safe and this is why WOW will always be a better game imo
Ok unless they changed something PvP servers never made me feel like I should be on my toes. Its not like there were gangs running around killing people on site everywhere. SO did something change in WOW when it comes to that? As for LOTRO I agree no world PvP sucks but it is a different style of game completely, but still spoon fed quests but at least you feel more a part of the story then you ever did in WOW.
Well on my Server you were always on your toes.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
LOTRO is for people who, don't really play. If you like being a part of a world, play LOTRO. If you want to engage yourself online, play WoW. I mean, crafted items in LOTRO are better than Raid items, which tells you, that this will gonna be a very "passive" game.
I do think that some times it would be nice to have PvP in the open world in lotro but then one of the things I like about lotro is the fact that there is no PvP in open places, IF I really wanted PvP like that I would play WoW.
Aion Quests Guide
you're right!
this gameplay looks amazing, also the UI and the crafting system! oh my god
no wait... tool
Okay, first off as others have said - LotRO has a free trial, very nice one running right now in fact which would let your friend subscribe for only $9.99/month at the end, so now is a great time to check it out.
Reasons I like LotRO more than WoW:
The first and biggest is simply the looks. LotRO looks more real, the graphics overall are better done, less cartoony and pastel.
Next would be the writing, while I admit some quests are boring and suck; overall LotRO has much more interesting quests/stories than WoW - enough to actually bother reading them rather than just clicking past the annoying boxes of text.
It's Middle Earth, 'nuf said. (Could it have been done better/differently, sure - but it *is* still middle earth and inherently more interesting than the lame ass Warhammer universe knock off that WoW is)
Crafting: again, has some issues - but it is 1000% better in LotRO than in WoW; not only can you make stuff that your characters will use all the way up, you can often even actually sell product to other players - even at the highest levels.
As for the PvP....it's basically a joke and non-existant in LotRO...but then again it sucks really bad and is pointless in WoW too, so not like you are losing much.
Good argument...
I've been playing wow since forever... I recently bought Lotro (because now I have a computer that can play it with ULTRA HIGH settings on EVERYTHING)... and... I APPROVE THIS POST!!!
This post nails it.
Played WoW for far to long and tried many other games - AoC, WAR, HGL (cough), EVE. the depth of LOTRO simply blows me away. The game rewards and encourages you to do things such as exploring. The classes are unique and play differently from other games (although that could be because I am playing a LM rather than a pure DPS/healer/tank class). The story is excellent. Graphics are second only to AoC. All told, a great game. LOTRO offers a richer gameplay experience. Only draw back that I can see is maybe PvP, but its all in what you want out of the game. In my case, now, I'm not that interested in PvP. Give me a few months and maybe I'll see how WAR is hanging in there again.
You will never convince him to play it unless he wants to, unless he is very weak minded, in which case, why is he your friend.
That said, many of the systems and concepts in LoTRO far outmatch WoW, but I can't stand LoTRO *because* I love the lore so much. I see many people posting about how it is good because it focuses on a story rather than reaching the max level. That isn't entirely true; WoW certainly has a good story, but the sort of people that play it do not care. LoTRO has an interesting story, but there are so many little things I don't like about it that it gets on my nerves.
LoTRO has very beautiful textures and in general the graphics also far outmatch WoW, but the animations drive me crazy, and honestly, are the biggest reason I cannot play this game (again, even though the Lord of the Rings is my favorite story and I followed LoTRO from the start, desperately wanting it to be good.). Even during something as basic as running I can tell so easily that the character is just projected onto the landscape. The characters are great and the landscape is great, but they never look right together and it irks me.
In short, it really is just a personal preference; as someone else said that are both "easymode" in that, for a relatively intelligent person, there is zero challenge in either game. They both have decen graphics, but far different styles; LoTRO has more advanced graphics, but retards making the animations. The stories are both good, but if you want people that care, LoTRO has more of that; however, the LoTRO story takes some major liberties with the original lore (though they do a fine job for the most part) that I personally don't like, but some people wouldn't mind or notice, perhaps.
I say play both, and pick the one you like best, based on whatever criteria you have for what makes a game fun.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
To say that the game's graphics are too "cartoony" is just THEE most PATHETIC excuse to not like a game... learn your gaming history... all ancient games were made as CARTOONY... cartoony is the FOUNDATION of gaming
As for LOTRO vs WOW graphics...
There are only THREE things in Lotro graphics that are NOT cartoony... Sky / Water / Lighting... THREE THINGS... Sky / Water / Lighting... everything else is just as cartoony as WoW...
{ Mod Edit }
you're right!
this gameplay looks amazing, also the UI and the crafting system! oh my god
no wait... tool
yeah that is amazing :P
Aion Quests Guide
Also, this is a fantastic post. LoTRO is a journey, WoW is *all* about being at the endgame; until you get there, you will largely be on your own. I disagree on one point: WoW is certainly a "theme park" in the sense Aurick describes, but so is LoTRO, and one could make the argument that it is more so; the story quests cause all the players to go through the same story and experience the same thing. Granted, the lower level story quests allow you to enter the story at different points and from different angles, which is actually very interesting and well done. However, the same is true of WoW, if you want to go explore you can, and there are many interesting things around; if you do the quests, you will get the same experience, but the low level quests give you a slightly different perspective. In this way, they are very very similar. LoTRO does feel more conducive to the player that wishes to explore, but for someone that want to progress, you get almost no experience from killing enemies in the world, so if you want to level at any kind of "decent" pace, you will end up doing quests, whereas WoW gives you a decent amount of experience from killing enemies and makes this method of leveling while exploring more viable. So they are similar in this way, but go about it indifferent ways.
Either way, they are both rationalized theme parks telling a story. They are both "mercilessly streamlined." You can explore both, but neither make the idea very appealing. Almost all people will do the quests, which is where you get the pre-packaged content that everyone gets and is always the same. You can't tell a story like that without everyone experiencing the same thing. That is why they both do it.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman