There is no such thing as negative hype for not having an open beta. People getting pissed about no open beta are the fans who want it... and want it now! It's the folks who are indifferent about it that need to be swayed... That's the real case for open beta in some form.
Frustration from lack of open beta will be defeated handily when EQ2 is released, I don't doubt that one bit. I don't care if some fan says they aren't buying it only because there was no open beta. You will cave, I guarantee it. Especially if you have any friends at all who will play it.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
Planetside was not inferior, it was made by SOE, and it had an open beta.
Tanatrus was a SOE(verant actually. Same guys) product that was inferior that did not have an open beta. As was SWG.
There ARE many reasons not to have an open beta. The only one SOE could possibly have is "game sucks".
Amazing how you summed it all up Xira. Since its so simple I will give it a try.
Question:
Why is the universe so big?
Only possible answers:
A. We need lots of room to store different types of cheese.
B. Its not really very big, we are just tiny.
Because there are only a few good types of cheese and they don't take up much space, obviously the answer is B.
Sarcasm aside, the possibilities you put forth are only a tiny fraction of what could and likely is the reality.
The fact is many thousands of games have been released without an open beta and many of them have been excellent. Its neat that Blizzard went that route but it doesn't mean the whole industry will necessarily do the same or that their games will be bad because of it.
Personally I would prefer if they didn't have open beta on any mmorpg as it usually does more harm then good imo. I do however wish they all would have a limited free trial available at release so everyone could try it out and decide if its worth the money to them to buy the full version.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
What in the name of Christ are you babbling on about man?
This has absolutely nothing to do with whether SOE games have had open betas in the past.
The simple, basic, and easy to understand FACT is that SOE have a reputation for releasing buggy, unbalanced, and generally crappy games.
Anyone with any kind of ability to apply rational logic and reason would agree that there is a definite chance that SOE are about to drop another sh*tbomb.
Now read carefully:
No open beta probably means that SOE don't want their game to gain a bad rep BEFORE they've seen a decent amount of revenue from it.
I hope I've made this post easy enough for you to understand.
Ultimately the bottom line is you don't know why SoE has closed NDA enforced beta for EQ2 we are all speculating, and most of it is from people who must have been personally brutalized by Sony.
All you can do is point out a companies fault on a buggy release, ie SWG now I admit, its a hurting puppy, but the success even of EQ1 today, says they know how to make a fantasy mmorpg, no matter how much you hate SoE, it is a successful company period. Just remember Diablo had its share of bugs that needed patched to upon its release, so Blizzard while having a better public relations department, isn't free from making a bugged game.
I personally quit EQ1 this year for being tired of having to buy an expansion every 4-8 months, but during the time when you didn't have to have the latest expansion the game was fun. I wish someone would start a 'I hate Sony because' thread and be done with it.
Now I respect Djin, even through the negativity, but eeargy you just wanting to play the flame game
Originally posted by eeargy The simple, basic, and easy to understand FACT is that SOE have a reputation for releasing buggy, unbalanced, and generally crappy games.
The above is opinion... The fact is that SOE has a reputation for releasing and running a long-lived best-selling RPG that happens to have the biggest player-base of any MMORPG years after release.
Anyone with any kind of ability to apply rational logic and reason would agree that there is a definite chance that SOE are about to drop another sh*tbomb.
There's also a chance that you might post another sh*tbomb post in response to this one... we won't have an open beta for that either.
Sony's numbers and investment in this depend on the long haul. They need people to (1) buy the game, and (2) play for at least six months to make even their most modest goals for EQ2. A game that is known crap would not do that. Maybe the game will suck, but Sony doesn't know it. Thus, their choice for not having open beta would not depend on that....
I hope I've made this post easy enough for you to understand.
Eeargy let me sum it up for you. Keep in mind this is speculation. However, I firmly believe they are not having an open beta for three reasons:
1) They have a plentiful pool of testers now and the majority of people who are attracted to the "OPEN BETAS" are those not interested in the game mechanics or improving it, but in a free fun time and chance to demo it (as evidenced in this thread). SOE makes games and produces them for profit. You want to try it out? Buy it or play elsewhere.
2) They KNOW already the server capacity of their hardware based on experience of over 5 years and a number of different games. In fact, they know so well what the capacity is for server stability and lag that they have reduced the raid size in order to accomodate acceptable play levels on the medium-high to high capacity systems of what they speculate the average EQ2 gamer will have. They have such a large pool of Closed Beta applicants that, at any time, they could let these additional players in for an "open beta simulation" and steer them to one server and completely test maxes. Therefore no need to have a massive Open Beta.
3) They already have mmorpg credibility. They have produced a high-quality MMORPG, the most popular and most successful ever. They don't lack credibility as a new mmorpg producer and have to "prove" to the gaming community that they can make a quality product. Blizzard by comparison is a great company with some fine RTS games, but had to earn its credibility in this gaming genre.
4) Open Beta would be a release from NDA. This is my BIGGEST point. Whether you want to admit it or not the lack of an NDA has hurt WoW. I left EQ six months ago to wait for WoW. I hated SOE and never intended to play another game they put out. However, over these last months, due to the lack of NDA I have seen the "patch, buff, nerf, patch, remove" of the character balance process and it has had a negative effect. Yes, this is beta. Yes, the game is not finished. But showing all your problems with Warlocks, Priests, paladins, Hunter pets, itemization - basically ALL the dirty laundry has soured me on WoW, bigtime. I plan to play a Warrior and already feel like I have suffered through three or four nerfs, heh, and I haven't even played yet! I have pretty much lost all anticipation for WoW and feel like there is very little that won't be a surprise. Don't get me wrong, WoW will be a fun game and have more subscribers than EQ2, I just think that 20-25% of them will gravitate over toward SOE when the game becomes bland and they are maxed out faster than new content can be generated. I don't think WoW will hold all those people at level 60 once they have defeated every dungeon and instance SOLELY with factional PVP.
Every day on the WoW boards there is some big issue and one class or another that has gotten farged or at least is griping about it. Believe it or not, but for a lot of people the entire beta, patching and fixing process relaly makes it look like Bliz is not ready to go and has a good three months left just to get the classes balanced for PVP and PVE. SOE? Who knows? They may be all farged up also but the fact that I don't know they are makes the game seem more sound.
I will also use a food analogy. I don't want to sit in the kitchen and watch the chef make my meal. Just bring the damn thing out all cooked, pretty and ready to eat and I will enjoy it more.
So...instead of trying to convince people EQ2 is a P.O.S. and that they are hiding something by not producing an open beta stop and take a long look at the situation. In about two months the subscription/monthly fee will exceed the retail box profit so your theory of them "trying to fool people into paying for the retail box before they cancel their subscription" is, well, dorky...
Originally posted by Misti Amazing how you summed it all up Xira. Since its so simple I will give it a try. Question: Why is the universe so big? Only possible answers: A. We need lots of room to store different types of cheese. B. Its not really very big, we are just tiny.
Because there are only a few good types of cheese and they don't take up much space, obviously the answer is B.
o.O You are so...profound Misti...Marry mie! ....Also, bring cheese. Lots of cheese.
Sarcasm aside, there are a very limited number of reasons NOT to have an open beta, far fewer than reasons the universe is big. (Or more percisly, that we are Tiny. As that is a true statement. Taken to infinity the universe is very small, and we are much smaller.)
The reasons I gave were the most common three for not haveing an Open Beta. If you can do better then...Let's hear it.
Originally posted by Rikimaru_X They want MONEY. They want you to BUY it and if you don't like it. . . .THEY DON'T care, They got you money . . . somthing like that . . .
Like Tombs said, they depend on your monthly subscription. They are not in this to sell a box. They are in this to sell the most addictive crack known to man. And we will love them for it.
And their experience with EQ, SWG, and Planetside have shown them you can sell people shitte in a box, and they will buy it. And continue to pay for it.
I've seen posts from people talking about how they continued paying for their accounts for EQ, DAoC, whatever for months even though they didn't log in, or that they hated the game, but stuck around for months chatting with friends.
Not to mention, there are plenty of sycophants on the official forums. The Devs could make a post insulting everyones mothers, and there would still be people making "Thank you Devs, we're so happy you graced us with your godlike presence" posts.
Originally posted by Tombs 4) Open Beta would be a release from NDA. This is my BIGGEST point. Whether you want to admit it or not the lack of an NDA has hurt WoW. I left EQ six months ago to wait for WoW. I hated SOE and never intended to play another game they put out. However, over these last months, due to the lack of NDA I have seen the "patch, buff, nerf, patch, remove" of the character balance process and it has had a negative effect. Yes, this is beta. Yes, the game is not finished. But showing all your problems with Warlocks, Priests, paladins, Hunter pets, itemization - basically ALL the dirty laundry has soured me on WoW, bigtime. I plan to play a Warrior and already feel like I have suffered through three or four nerfs, heh, and I haven't even played yet! I have pretty much lost all anticipation for WoW and feel like there is very little that won't be a surprise. Don't get me wrong, WoW will be a fun game and have more subscribers than EQ2, I just think that 20-25% of them will gravitate over toward SOE when the game becomes bland and they are maxed out faster than new content can be generated. I don't think WoW will hold all those people at level 60 once they have defeated every dungeon and instance SOLELY with factional PVP. Every day on the WoW boards there is some big issue and one class or another that has gotten farged or at least is griping about it. Believe it or not, but for a lot of people the entire beta, patching and fixing process relaly makes it look like Bliz is not ready to go and has a good three months left just to get the classes balanced for PVP and PVE. SOE? Who knows? They may be all farged up also but the fact that I don't know they are makes the game seem more sound.
ahhh so you think 'hiding' problems. Until they've already gotten folks to buy their sub-par product is a better action? I'm sorry, but your train of thought just baffles me.
SOE + NDA - Open Beta = You have no idea how the final product will turn out.
Blizzard - NDA + Open Beta = You will see the games progress or short commings during each push.
At least with WoW and GuildWars I will know what I'm buying. I will know what the developer did or didn't do before release.
With EQ2 you'll be getting a mystery product. It doesn't matter how many closed beta testers you have.
If you are confident in your product. Why do you really need to hide? Blizzard wasn't afraid to put their beta forums out there for public consumption. Arena.net wasn't afraid to show off a playable alpha version of their game for the general public. Nervax wasn't afraid to put their game out as open beta when most games with that many bugs would still be in alpha.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Roin If you are confident in your product. Why do you really need to hide? Blizzard wasn't afraid to put their beta forums out there for public consumption. Arena.net wasn't afraid to show off a playable alpha version of their game for the general public. Nervax wasn't afraid to put their game out as open beta when most games with that many bugs would still be in alpha.
Chuckle, SOE might be evil but they are not dumb. I won't buy Ryzom because I did not like what I saw in the last open beta, and after playing the WoW stress test I am confident it will never see my hard drive either. On the other hand my younger brother is in the EQII beta and while we live too far apart for me to visit and actually see it, his reports are encouraging, and I will base my buy/not buy decision on his report when the game goes gold. At the moment I am still on the fence but leaning toward the buy decision, it's never too late to cancel a pre order though
I don't know if others are like me, but I will get hooked on the first game I play. WoW or EQII. So, which ever game I get to play first I will play for awhile. I like playing the games from day one. The more I read about each game the more I see good and bad parts in both. So, what I am saying is the only advantage of open beta for me is who wants to give me some free candy today knowing after that I will pay the $60 + $20/month with a smile.
Not sure where you are all getting the $60.00 + 20 from unless you are all Canadian. EB games has both WoW and EQII at 49.95 and I will bet the sub will be 15 skins for both also. Anymore and the kiddies cannot afford a sub. Better to have 300k+ subs at 15 than 200k at 20.
All mmorpg released have had bugs. Its not just SOE. Also open beta is a great way of tiping off the competition what you have in your game before you officially launch the game. They'll find out sooner or later but no need to let them know what things are like ahead of time. Also most of the time open beta is used to stress test the server and SOE has plenty of data on that situation with their other games. Also SOE isn't a new company that really has to prove itself or hook people. They know people are waiting for their game and have preordered it. I don't really think its beause they are hiding that the game isn't ready or anything. If anything a open beta would slow down the bug reporting since you'd have more people playing, making it harder to get the reports from testers that actually matter. They'd be hit with post and complaints about there not being enough content, not being able to access cretain areas. People would be complaining as if they were actaully paying and ignore the fact that they were playing a beta game. A LOT of people would just play to be playing for free and not actually help test or report any bugs they do happen to fine or complain when a bug appeared instead of reporting it like they are suppose to.
Let me put it plain and simple because i have my sources of these things.
1. They dont need an open beta for stress testing. since the begining of the closed beta they have had one server. They have been inviting people into closed beta stressing the server a little more each day. They have gotten far enough to were they need to be to were they have now opened a whole new beta server.
2. They should have enough closed beta sign ups to get them the right amount of people they need.
3. I can assure you that they arent trying to hide from the public an un finished product. It is a verry well done product and that is all that i will say.
Let me just say, you will all understand soon enough how everything works.
Originally posted by Tombs 4) Open Beta would be a release from NDA. This is my BIGGEST point. Whether you want to admit it or not the lack of an NDA has hurt WoW. I left EQ six months ago to wait for WoW. I hated SOE and never intended to play another game they put out. However, over these last months, due to the lack of NDA I have seen the "patch, buff, nerf, patch, remove" of the character balance process and it has had a negative effect. Yes, this is beta. Yes, the game is not finished. But showing all your problems with Warlocks, Priests, paladins, Hunter pets, itemization - basically ALL the dirty laundry has soured me on WoW, bigtime. I plan to play a Warrior and already feel like I have suffered through three or four nerfs, heh, and I haven't even played yet! I have pretty much lost all anticipation for WoW and feel like there is very little that won't be a surprise. Don't get me wrong, WoW will be a fun game and have more subscribers than EQ2, I just think that 20-25% of them will gravitate over toward SOE when the game becomes bland and they are maxed out faster than new content can be generated. I don't think WoW will hold all those people at level 60 once they have defeated every dungeon and instance SOLELY with factional PVP. Every day on the WoW boards there is some big issue and one class or another that has gotten farged or at least is griping about it. Believe it or not, but for a lot of people the entire beta, patching and fixing process relaly makes it look like Bliz is not ready to go and has a good three months left just to get the classes balanced for PVP and PVE. SOE? Who knows? They may be all farged up also but the fact that I don't know they are makes the game seem more sound.
ahhh so you think 'hiding' problems. Until they've already gotten folks to buy their sub-par product is a better action? I'm sorry, but your train of thought just baffles me.
SOE + NDA - Open Beta = You have no idea how the final product will turn out.
Blizzard - NDA + Open Beta = You will see the games progress or short commings during each push.
At least with WoW and GuildWars I will know what I'm buying. I will know what the developer did or didn't do before release.
With EQ2 you'll be getting a mystery product. It doesn't matter how many closed beta testers you have.
If you are confident in your product. Why do you really need to hide? Blizzard wasn't afraid to put their beta forums out there for public consumption. Arena.net wasn't afraid to show off a playable alpha version of their game for the general public. Nervax wasn't afraid to put their game out as open beta when most games with that many bugs would still be in alpha.
Is that what you think I said?
Listen very carefully. Why do gaming companies have betas? They have them to discover problems, bugs, exploits, balance issues and other things which they didn't foresee. Once these are uncovered they resolve the issues (ie fix them). Beta is the process by which gaming companies uncover them so they can produce a stable game. Sorry, I thought this was understood.
The lack of an NDA enables everyone to see the process of finding and resolving the problems. In my opinion it is better to have an NDA so that the entire world doesn't see the progress of how bad your game sucked at the beginning compared with how good it is at retail.
Yes, Roin, when I invite a girl over to my house I get the Taco Bell bag and the empty Mountain Dew cup off the coffee table. I take the laundry basket out of the living room where I normally fold clothes to put away while I am watching football. I check the bathroom and make sure it is clean and that the floors are OK. This is an NDA. Now, if I were to wait until she got there and had her sit down while I corrected all these things that would be similar to not having an NDA. The end product is the same either way; however, the EFFECT is drastically superior if it appears my personal shit is "tight". Will it get me laid? Probably not, but I sure feel better about it...
Just because you have an NDA doesn't mean you are hiding things bad. It may mean you have some great innovations and you are trying to hide the things "good". Just because you don't have an Open Beta doesn't mean you have a crappy game. Perhaps SOE is saying "I feel so strong about the quality of this game that I dont have to give a Free Trial to get people to play it."
No, you will not be able to try the game out before it is released. So, if you don't want to pay the retail price, then just wait and ask people or guess what ... DONT BUY IT. SOE doesn't care and neither do I, just don't run around like a moron trying to make some elaborate case based on your own hypothetical conspiracy theories that the game sucks if there is no Free Trial period disguised by the name Open Beta. If the game turns out good, which I think it will, you have only proved you are a complete idiot.
Contrary to popular belief, Everquest rocked. I played it for four years. Kunark was great (unless you were a Paladin)...Velious (although it was unfinished relative to the Sleeper encounter) ... Luclin... Planes of Power ... and the expansion with the Advens were all FANTASTIC releases. Planes of Power was the best expansion of any game I have ever played. Legacy of Ykesha and gates of Discord I thought were crap. OOW, dunno too late I quit to wait for WOW.
I never played SWG or Planetside but based on the boards and other's opinions I will say that SWG was released unfinished and was crap at release.
The point? A lot of good games and successful releases and launches as well as some turds from SOE. So... Roin stop misrepresenting me. WoW would still have me as a customer if they "hid" their mistakes because those "mistakes" won't be present at release. If SOE wants to put her makeup on in private and then come out and impress me with how beautiful she is, good for her...
If SOE's primary goal is to FOOL everyone and release PONG disguised as a mmorpg then, well, why would they even have a Beta at all? That costs money. SOE doesn't want to get the retail box money and run and if you say so you are naive. They want you to buy it and SUBSCRIBE as the subscription money is 1000 TIMES more than the retail box money (not to mention all the expansions you will buy down the road).
Originally posted by phantomriley My god there are alot of posts on this. Frankly I dont mind about no open beta.
On this note, I wouldn't mind about not hearing about a game at all until it releases. Sure would be nice to just hear about EQ2 or WoW releasing wihout expecting it, then just go down to the store, buy it, and start playing it without having all the dirty background knowledge of how it got there. Learning it all later would be fun, but after I've already played it.
I guess I'd rather have the knowledge, but there's nothing quite like a sleeper hit that surprises you by sitting there on the store shelf one day and turning out to be a completely awesome game.
Comments
There is no such thing as negative hype for not having an open beta. People getting pissed about no open beta are the fans who want it... and want it now! It's the folks who are indifferent about it that need to be swayed... That's the real case for open beta in some form.
Frustration from lack of open beta will be defeated handily when EQ2 is released, I don't doubt that one bit. I don't care if some fan says they aren't buying it only because there was no open beta. You will cave, I guarantee it. Especially if you have any friends at all who will play it.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
Planetside was not inferior, it was made by SOE, and it had an open beta.
Tanatrus was a SOE(verant actually. Same guys) product that was inferior that did not have an open beta.
As was SWG.
There ARE many reasons not to have an open beta. The only one SOE could possibly have is "game sucks".
Amazing how you summed it all up Xira. Since its so simple I will give it a try.
Question:
Why is the universe so big?
Only possible answers:
A. We need lots of room to store different types of cheese.
B. Its not really very big, we are just tiny.
Because there are only a few good types of cheese and they don't take up much space, obviously the answer is B.
Sarcasm aside, the possibilities you put forth are only a tiny fraction of what could and likely is the reality.
The fact is many thousands of games have been released without an open beta and many of them have been excellent. Its neat that Blizzard went that route but it doesn't mean the whole industry will necessarily do the same or that their games will be bad because of it.
Personally I would prefer if they didn't have open beta on any mmorpg as it usually does more harm then good imo. I do however wish they all would have a limited free trial available at release so everyone could try it out and decide if its worth the money to them to buy the full version.
Still, that argument is invalid unless you back it up with an example of some inferior SOE game that didn't have an open beta, and then another SOE product that was not inferior that did have an open beta.
There are many reasons not to have an open beta, which is why your argument is invalid no matter how you word it.
What in the name of Christ are you babbling on about man?
This has absolutely nothing to do with whether SOE games have had open betas in the past.
The simple, basic, and easy to understand FACT is that SOE have a reputation for releasing buggy, unbalanced, and generally crappy games.
Anyone with any kind of ability to apply rational logic and reason would agree that there is a definite chance that SOE are about to drop another sh*tbomb.
Now read carefully:
No open beta probably means that SOE don't want their game to gain a bad rep BEFORE they've seen a decent amount of revenue from it.
I hope I've made this post easy enough for you to understand.
Ultimately the bottom line is you don't know why SoE has closed NDA enforced beta for EQ2 we are all speculating, and most of it is from people who must have been personally brutalized by Sony.
All you can do is point out a companies fault on a buggy release, ie SWG now I admit, its a hurting puppy, but the success even of EQ1 today, says they know how to make a fantasy mmorpg, no matter how much you hate SoE, it is a successful company period. Just remember Diablo had its share of bugs that needed patched to upon its release, so Blizzard while having a better public relations department, isn't free from making a bugged game.
I personally quit EQ1 this year for being tired of having to buy an expansion every 4-8 months, but during the time when you didn't have to have the latest expansion the game was fun. I wish someone would start a 'I hate Sony because' thread and be done with it.
Now I respect Djin, even through the negativity, but eeargy you just wanting to play the flame game
The above is opinion... The fact is that SOE has a reputation for releasing and running a long-lived best-selling RPG that happens to have the biggest player-base of any MMORPG years after release.
There's also a chance that you might post another sh*tbomb post in response to this one... we won't have an open beta for that either.
Sony's numbers and investment in this depend on the long haul. They need people to (1) buy the game, and (2) play for at least six months to make even their most modest goals for EQ2. A game that is known crap would not do that. Maybe the game will suck, but Sony doesn't know it. Thus, their choice for not having open beta would not depend on that....
Crystal...
Eeargy let me sum it up for you. Keep in mind this is speculation. However, I firmly believe they are not having an open beta for three reasons:
1) They have a plentiful pool of testers now and the majority of people who are attracted to the "OPEN BETAS" are those not interested in the game mechanics or improving it, but in a free fun time and chance to demo it (as evidenced in this thread). SOE makes games and produces them for profit. You want to try it out? Buy it or play elsewhere.
2) They KNOW already the server capacity of their hardware based on experience of over 5 years and a number of different games. In fact, they know so well what the capacity is for server stability and lag that they have reduced the raid size in order to accomodate acceptable play levels on the medium-high to high capacity systems of what they speculate the average EQ2 gamer will have. They have such a large pool of Closed Beta applicants that, at any time, they could let these additional players in for an "open beta simulation" and steer them to one server and completely test maxes. Therefore no need to have a massive Open Beta.
3) They already have mmorpg credibility. They have produced a high-quality MMORPG, the most popular and most successful ever. They don't lack credibility as a new mmorpg producer and have to "prove" to the gaming community that they can make a quality product. Blizzard by comparison is a great company with some fine RTS games, but had to earn its credibility in this gaming genre.
4) Open Beta would be a release from NDA. This is my BIGGEST point. Whether you want to admit it or not the lack of an NDA has hurt WoW. I left EQ six months ago to wait for WoW. I hated SOE and never intended to play another game they put out. However, over these last months, due to the lack of NDA I have seen the "patch, buff, nerf, patch, remove" of the character balance process and it has had a negative effect. Yes, this is beta. Yes, the game is not finished. But showing all your problems with Warlocks, Priests, paladins, Hunter pets, itemization - basically ALL the dirty laundry has soured me on WoW, bigtime. I plan to play a Warrior and already feel like I have suffered through three or four nerfs, heh, and I haven't even played yet! I have pretty much lost all anticipation for WoW and feel like there is very little that won't be a surprise. Don't get me wrong, WoW will be a fun game and have more subscribers than EQ2, I just think that 20-25% of them will gravitate over toward SOE when the game becomes bland and they are maxed out faster than new content can be generated. I don't think WoW will hold all those people at level 60 once they have defeated every dungeon and instance SOLELY with factional PVP.
Every day on the WoW boards there is some big issue and one class or another that has gotten farged or at least is griping about it. Believe it or not, but for a lot of people the entire beta, patching and fixing process relaly makes it look like Bliz is not ready to go and has a good three months left just to get the classes balanced for PVP and PVE. SOE? Who knows? They may be all farged up also but the fact that I don't know they are makes the game seem more sound.
I will also use a food analogy. I don't want to sit in the kitchen and watch the chef make my meal. Just bring the damn thing out all cooked, pretty and ready to eat and I will enjoy it more.
So...instead of trying to convince people EQ2 is a P.O.S. and that they are hiding something by not producing an open beta stop and take a long look at the situation. In about two months the subscription/monthly fee will exceed the retail box profit so your theory of them "trying to fool people into paying for the retail box before they cancel their subscription" is, well, dorky...
McDonalds is the most popular fastfood chain, yet that doesn't make them any less crap and seedy.
There's alot of money and ressources tied up in this game and hype, and I doubt SOE will want anyone to spoil that image by allowing an open beta.
They want MONEY. They want you to BUY it and if you don't like it. . . .THEY DON'T care, They got you money . . .
somthing like that . . .
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
o.O You are so...profound Misti...Marry mie! ....Also, bring cheese. Lots of cheese.
Sarcasm aside, there are a very limited number of reasons NOT to have an open beta, far fewer than reasons the universe is big. (Or more percisly, that we are Tiny. As that is a true statement. Taken to infinity the universe is very small, and we are much smaller.)
The reasons I gave were the most common three for not haveing an Open Beta. If you can do better then...Let's hear it.
Like Tombs said, they depend on your monthly subscription. They are not in this to sell a box. They are in this to sell the most addictive crack known to man. And we will love them for it.
And their experience with EQ, SWG, and Planetside have shown them you can sell people shitte in a box, and they will buy it. And continue to pay for it.
I've seen posts from people talking about how they continued paying for their accounts for EQ, DAoC, whatever for months even though they didn't log in, or that they hated the game, but stuck around for months chatting with friends.
Not to mention, there are plenty of sycophants on the official forums. The Devs could make a post insulting everyones mothers, and there would still be people making "Thank you Devs, we're so happy you graced us with your godlike presence" posts.
So now Coldmeat we are going to move to insulting the people who choose to play it?
The argument now is the game is shit and we are mindless sheep who simply bend over for SOE?
ahhh so you think 'hiding' problems. Until they've already gotten folks to buy their sub-par product is a better action? I'm sorry, but your train of thought just baffles me.
SOE + NDA - Open Beta = You have no idea how the final product will turn out.
Blizzard - NDA + Open Beta = You will see the games progress or short commings during each push.
At least with WoW and GuildWars I will know what I'm buying. I will know what the developer did or didn't do before release.
With EQ2 you'll be getting a mystery product. It doesn't matter how many closed beta testers you have.
If you are confident in your product. Why do you really need to hide? Blizzard wasn't afraid to put their beta forums out there for public consumption. Arena.net wasn't afraid to show off a playable alpha version of their game for the general public. Nervax wasn't afraid to put their game out as open beta when most games with that many bugs would still be in alpha.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Chuckle, SOE might be evil but they are not dumb. I won't buy Ryzom because I did not like what I saw in the last open beta, and after playing the WoW stress test I am confident it will never see my hard drive either. On the other hand my younger brother is in the EQII beta and while we live too far apart for me to visit and actually see it, his reports are encouraging, and I will base my buy/not buy decision on his report when the game goes gold. At the moment I am still on the fence but leaning toward the buy decision, it's never too late to cancel a pre order though
I miss DAoC
I don't know if others are like me, but I will get hooked on the first game I play. WoW or EQII. So, which ever game I get to play first I will play for awhile. I like playing the games from day one. The more I read about each game the more I see good and bad parts in both. So, what I am saying is the only advantage of open beta for me is who wants to give me some free candy today knowing after that I will pay the $60 + $20/month with a smile.
StyxParadox
StyxParadox
I miss DAoC
doesnt SOE have a history of releasing buggy games? plus open betas are a great way to hook people right?
All mmorpg released have had bugs. Its not just SOE. Also open beta is a great way of tiping off the competition what you have in your game before you officially launch the game. They'll find out sooner or later but no need to let them know what things are like ahead of time. Also most of the time open beta is used to stress test the server and SOE has plenty of data on that situation with their other games. Also SOE isn't a new company that really has to prove itself or hook people. They know people are waiting for their game and have preordered it. I don't really think its beause they are hiding that the game isn't ready or anything. If anything a open beta would slow down the bug reporting since you'd have more people playing, making it harder to get the reports from testers that actually matter. They'd be hit with post and complaints about there not being enough content, not being able to access cretain areas. People would be complaining as if they were actaully paying and ignore the fact that they were playing a beta game. A LOT of people would just play to be playing for free and not actually help test or report any bugs they do happen to fine or complain when a bug appeared instead of reporting it like they are suppose to.
Let me put it plain and simple because i have my sources of these things.
1. They dont need an open beta for stress testing. since the begining of the closed beta they have had one server. They have been inviting people into closed beta stressing the server a little more each day. They have gotten far enough to were they need to be to were they have now opened a whole new beta server.
2. They should have enough closed beta sign ups to get them the right amount of people they need.
3. I can assure you that they arent trying to hide from the public an un finished product. It is a verry well done product and that is all that i will say.
Let me just say, you will all understand soon enough how everything works.
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
ahhh so you think 'hiding' problems. Until they've already gotten folks to buy their sub-par product is a better action? I'm sorry, but your train of thought just baffles me.
SOE + NDA - Open Beta = You have no idea how the final product will turn out.
Blizzard - NDA + Open Beta = You will see the games progress or short commings during each push.
At least with WoW and GuildWars I will know what I'm buying. I will know what the developer did or didn't do before release.
With EQ2 you'll be getting a mystery product. It doesn't matter how many closed beta testers you have.
If you are confident in your product. Why do you really need to hide? Blizzard wasn't afraid to put their beta forums out there for public consumption. Arena.net wasn't afraid to show off a playable alpha version of their game for the general public. Nervax wasn't afraid to put their game out as open beta when most games with that many bugs would still be in alpha.
Is that what you think I said?
Listen very carefully. Why do gaming companies have betas? They have them to discover problems, bugs, exploits, balance issues and other things which they didn't foresee. Once these are uncovered they resolve the issues (ie fix them). Beta is the process by which gaming companies uncover them so they can produce a stable game. Sorry, I thought this was understood.
The lack of an NDA enables everyone to see the process of finding and resolving the problems. In my opinion it is better to have an NDA so that the entire world doesn't see the progress of how bad your game sucked at the beginning compared with how good it is at retail.
Yes, Roin, when I invite a girl over to my house I get the Taco Bell bag and the empty Mountain Dew cup off the coffee table. I take the laundry basket out of the living room where I normally fold clothes to put away while I am watching football. I check the bathroom and make sure it is clean and that the floors are OK. This is an NDA. Now, if I were to wait until she got there and had her sit down while I corrected all these things that would be similar to not having an NDA. The end product is the same either way; however, the EFFECT is drastically superior if it appears my personal shit is "tight". Will it get me laid? Probably not, but I sure feel better about it...
Just because you have an NDA doesn't mean you are hiding things bad. It may mean you have some great innovations and you are trying to hide the things "good". Just because you don't have an Open Beta doesn't mean you have a crappy game. Perhaps SOE is saying "I feel so strong about the quality of this game that I dont have to give a Free Trial to get people to play it."
No, you will not be able to try the game out before it is released. So, if you don't want to pay the retail price, then just wait and ask people or guess what ... DONT BUY IT. SOE doesn't care and neither do I, just don't run around like a moron trying to make some elaborate case based on your own hypothetical conspiracy theories that the game sucks if there is no Free Trial period disguised by the name Open Beta. If the game turns out good, which I think it will, you have only proved you are a complete idiot.
Contrary to popular belief, Everquest rocked. I played it for four years. Kunark was great (unless you were a Paladin)...Velious (although it was unfinished relative to the Sleeper encounter) ... Luclin... Planes of Power ... and the expansion with the Advens were all FANTASTIC releases. Planes of Power was the best expansion of any game I have ever played. Legacy of Ykesha and gates of Discord I thought were crap. OOW, dunno too late I quit to wait for WOW.
I never played SWG or Planetside but based on the boards and other's opinions I will say that SWG was released unfinished and was crap at release.
The point? A lot of good games and successful releases and launches as well as some turds from SOE. So... Roin stop misrepresenting me. WoW would still have me as a customer if they "hid" their mistakes because those "mistakes" won't be present at release. If SOE wants to put her makeup on in private and then come out and impress me with how beautiful she is, good for her...
If SOE's primary goal is to FOOL everyone and release PONG disguised as a mmorpg then, well, why would they even have a Beta at all? That costs money. SOE doesn't want to get the retail box money and run and if you say so you are naive. They want you to buy it and SUBSCRIBE as the subscription money is 1000 TIMES more than the retail box money (not to mention all the expansions you will buy down the road).
Yep, eight pages of:
Dork: EQ2 doesn't have Open Beta, gee, the game must be horrible and they are hiding it.
Bigger Dork: IT doesn't stink! They just don't want you to play it for free!
On this note, I wouldn't mind about not hearing about a game at all until it releases. Sure would be nice to just hear about EQ2 or WoW releasing wihout expecting it, then just go down to the store, buy it, and start playing it without having all the dirty background knowledge of how it got there. Learning it all later would be fun, but after I've already played it.
I guess I'd rather have the knowledge, but there's nothing quite like a sleeper hit that surprises you by sitting there on the store shelf one day and turning out to be a completely awesome game.