I will call it a sandbox since i play it as i did in SWG. And if we pretend we have a common sense, the game is still new. More features are added every week . Maybe soon we will have player owned stores and houses? It took SWG amost year to get that, remember??
"I played SWG therefore I have authority to call DF whatever I want!" - That is what you are trying to say, daarco? Seriously?
What are these "more" features added every week? Did you see the WoW patch that came out yesterday? THAT my friend is adding features to an MMO. Fixes DFs own bugs and errors in coding is nice and welcome, but it's not "more features". I only mention that because you know... you tried to throw the common sense at me, so I'm just trying to use it.
I was mostly trying to get people to think. To think there will be more features added later : ) Wich make it pointless to whine about it.
I call DF andbox because i can do whatever i want to do, whenever i want to. No game mechanic stands in my way...just as nothing stopped me in SWG.......for me. You might not think any MMO is sandbox.
I will call it a sandbox since i play it as i did in SWG. And if we pretend we have a common sense, the game is still new. More features are added every week . Maybe soon we will have player owned stores and houses? It took SWG amost year to get that, remember??
Scary but what daarco said is correct. While I don't think DF is a true sandbox right now. It's more like a sandbox-lite game. That could change in the future though. Not sure if it will considering the main focus of DF is purely combat.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
There's no agreed upon definition of a sandbox game. As some have pointed out, you could make an arguement that WOW is a sandbox game depending on how you define one.
But I do think there are certain features typical of the more sandbox type game as opposed that are class/level based and quest driven.
As such, I think all games have to be measured on a scale, based on how many sandbox type features they include, and what is the player's primary method of progression.
While its true, you could play WOW and never run a quest, it would be rather silly, since the goal of the game is to level up your charcater, and questing is clearly the path developers have put forth to accomplish efficient leveling to 80. True, players could ignore that path, however they would clearly be gimping their gaming experience.
Contrast that with EVE. There really isn't a single path to success a player must follow. Training happens regardless what path you chose, at more or less the same rate as other people.
You can succeed in EVE and never train a combat skill, and you won't be gimping your game experience if you chose not to pvp in 0.0 space. Every path in EVE is a viable option, I know players who do nothing but trade, and have amassed billions upon billions of ISK, simiply because it amuses them to be economic titans. Others do the same with mining, or crafting, and some do it by the use of the gun, in killing/looting other players.
But back to Darkfall, which was the OP. It has many of the commonly accepted standards of sandbox type games, like skills vs classes, not quest oriented, ffa PVP with looting, crafting etc. Sure, it may not have every feature of other sandbox games (and lets face it, most people complaining are comparing it to SWG/UO in every case, considered to be the standards in sandbox games by most) but that does not make it primariy a sandbox vs a linear game like WOW.
Its nit-picking to say DF isn't a sandbox because its missing 3 elements that some other game had. They are not deal breakers, inherently, DF is a sandbox in most peoples eyes, unless they are just trying to be contrary.
For example, one person said its not a sandbox if it doesn't have pet taming. Please, that's a nice feature of a couple of games. (SWG and Lineage 2 come to my mind) but that doesn't totally define a sandbox. Heck, WOW has pet taming and that certainly doesn't weigh in on the sandbox side of the scale for it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There's no agreed upon definition of a sandbox game. As some have pointed out, you could make an arguement that WOW is a sandbox game depending on how you define one. But I do think there are certain features typical of the more sandbox type game as opposed that are class/level based and quest driven. As such, I think all games have to be measured on a scale, based on how many sandbox type features they include, and what is the player's primary method of progression. While its true, you could play WOW and never run a quest, it would be rather silly, since the goal of the game is to level up your charcater, and questing is clearly the path developers have put forth to accomplish efficient leveling to 80. True, players could ignore that path, however they would clearly be gimping their gaming experience. Contrast that with EVE. There really isn't a single path to success a player must follow. Training happens regardless what path you chose, at more or less the same rate as other people. You can succeed in EVE and never train a combat skill, and you won't be gimping your game experience if you chose not to pvp in 0.0 space. Every path in EVE is a viable option, I know players who do nothing but trade, and have amassed billions upon billions of ISK, simiply because it amuses them to be economic titans. Others do the same with mining, or crafting, and some do it by the use of the gun, in killing/looting other players. But back to Darkfall, which was the OP. It has many of the commonly accepted standards of sandbox type games, like skills vs classes, not quest oriented, ffa PVP with looting, crafting etc. Sure, it may not have every feature of other sandbox games (and lets face it, most people complaining are comparing it to SWG/UO in every case, considered to be the standards in sandbox games by most) but that does not make it primariy a sandbox vs a linear game like WOW. Its nit-picking to say DF isn't a sandbox because its missing 3 elements that some other game had. They are not deal breakers, inherently, DF is a sandbox in most peoples eyes, unless they are just trying to be contrary. For example, one person said its not a sandbox if it doesn't have pet taming. Please, that's a nice feature of a couple of games. (SWG and Lineage 2 come to my mind) but that doesn't totally define a sandbox. Heck, WOW has pet taming and that certainly doesn't weigh in on the sandbox side of the scale for it.
You missed the point of taming. There are animals in the world and I can interact with them and use them to get fame and riches if I choose. There are not even animals in DF, let alone the ability to interact with them. A sandbox is a game you can do whatever you want to do, not "a list of a few features that are commonly accepted"... that is just BS you are claiming exists as an elite MMO player, which doesn't hold any real ground on anything besides in your own mind.
You cannot do whatever you want to in DF and have fun. You HAVE to PvP and you also have to be in a guild to play the game "correctly". And since you mentioned WoW and told us the "correct" way they designed it (which is purely your opinion), I can do the same for DF. The correct way to play DF is to PvP in a guild all the time, that is what the devs intended and that's what most people do and claim you should do on these forums.
See how easily I did the same thing to DF you did with WoW? Your perspective is all out of wack. It's simple, in UO/SWG I could do whatever I wanted... in DF you have to PvP. Not a sandbox, move on, it is just devoid of features. And like people said, they might be added a couple years down the road, good... then I'll play it, but right now it is hardly a game I can do whatever I want, the tools are not there.
Contrast that with EVE. There really isn't a single path to success a player must follow. Training happens regardless what path you chose, at more or less the same rate as other people. You can succeed in EVE and never train a combat skill, and you won't be gimping your game experience if you chose not to pvp in 0.0 space. Every path in EVE is a viable option, I know players who do nothing but trade, and have amassed billions upon billions of ISK, simiply because it amuses them to be economic titans. Others do the same with mining, or crafting, and some do it by the use of the gun, in killing/looting other players.
Good post and I agree, for the most part.
Regarding the above, the same can and is being done by players in Darkfall.
I have two EVE accounts, the first a 0.0 combat pilot, the other a hi-sec miner. Both of these are viable professions, (the miner actually makes more isk, due to the inherent costs of PVP my combat pilot incurs).
In Darkfall, you can pretty much do the exact same thing, though admittedly, Darkfall is not as mature as EVE Online currently is and many of the updates added to EVE over the years have significantly improved, (or not ), the original content of the game. This being the case, as well as the fact that Darkfall is a brand new game, I can easily see AV taking the path of another indy developer, CCP.
We will just have to wait and see.
I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
Because you can do anything you want, if all you want is fighting.
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Can't you do that in any game where you have those features? For instance in WoW I could be those things, I could just do nothing but crafting or, I could just go around exploring all day, and never fight one thing If I don't want to. I know, I know WoW is a theme park game but you can still only do those things if you really wanted to.
You don't have to kill things in any game if you don't want to, but you won't get to a higher level combat wise if you don't. But I play these types of games to go on an adventure and kill things as well be those things on the side.. Just like in DnD I played as an adventurer, it would be boring if all i did in dnd is craft things and build houses. Thats just me of course and its cool if thats all what people want to do, im fine with that.
Features I call sandbox would be.
1) Building things wherever you want to.
2) Players actions influence the game world for everyone not just them selves. e.g. if im a orc and I start killing a bunch of humans, the humans will hate all orc players. Unlike WoW where if I kill a faction and they just hate me and not my whole race. Also there could be ways to get on their good side again if you wanted to.
3) The freedom to do whatever you want without being gimped in some sort of way.
That's all I can think of right now but I think a lot of people have the misconseption of what a sandbox game is. What did you do when you were young and played in the sandbox? You built things and manipulated the sand how you wanted it to be.
A sandbox game to me = players can manipulate the game for all others to see and their actions effect all players. Thats all simple as that.
Originally posted by robertb I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
Agreed. But I think someone already did. The genre of MMOs are all open ended worlds where you can do what you like, that is what the genre is all about. It's the elite vs the casual gamers that started to throw in words like themepark, linear, and sandbox. Everyone argues over the semantics like you said.
My point without using those thrown around words was the things I enjoyed most in UO are not in DF, therefore I don't want to play it yet and do not consider it as feature full as UO was. And I comment because too many people say "If you like UO, you'll like this! It's a sandbox just like it!". Really they mean "If you liked PvP in UO then you'll vaguely have nostagalic feels for a brief period of time, mainly when you loot a corpse."
Originally posted by robertb I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
Agreed. But I think someone already did. The genre of MMOs are all open ended worlds where you can do what you like, that is what the genre is all about. It's the elite vs the casual gamers that started to throw in words like themepark, linear, and sandbox. Everyone argues over the semantics like you said.
My point without using those thrown around words was the things I enjoyed most in UO are not in DF, therefore I don't want to play it yet and do not consider it as feature full as UO was. And I comment because too many people say "If you like UO, you'll like this! It's a sandbox just like it!". Really they mean "If you liked PvP in UO then you'll vaguely have nostagalic feels for a brief period of time, mainly when you loot a corpse."
Features versus the core of the game.
UO, if I remember correctly, started in a much less developed state then it ended up as.
The question I believe that is relevant here is this;
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
For this game, I believe that the answer is of course, yes and quite easily so.
It is a sanbox simply because you, as a player, can do pretty much whatever you want to do, with the tools provided by the devs.
You want to be PVP killer, fine You can do that in WoW too. Not until you've done enough quests to reach a big enough level for the game to set up pvp play-dates for you. Unlike Darkfall you can't just pick up a sword and level up by fighting players, without ever having the need to fight a single mob. You actually can get you newbie level 10 character and travel to an enemy starter town and find people of your level that will fight you. I've tried and achieved it with an undead travelling to Stormwind and fighting newbies. I strongly discourage anyone to even consider doing it ... Also pvp in WoW is much less fullfilling since you'll never fight for the honor of your clan, or to keep the precious city or ship you helped build and losing and winning doesn't actually matter much. You want to be master Crafter, fine You can do that in WoW too and there is better crafting than in this "sandbox" No, you can't be a master crafter without first leveling enough to unlock the last master crafter level. This dependency on level is what makes a wow a themepark and a level based game. You want to slay monsters, fine Even the worst MMORPG will let you hit monster. Indeed. You want to own cities, fine One point! You want to be pirate Joe, fine Wtf? "Wtf" is not a rebuttal. Granted, pirating would be a lot more fun if the game had local banking but that's a different subject. Nevertheless you can still hijack ships in Darkfall. You want to explore, fine You can do that in WoW too. NO! Believe me, I've tried my best. The truth is that WoW is a land of boundaries with mountains heavily restricting travel and with seas of mobs that make it literally impossible for you to travel unless you've finished 763 quests first. And even if you do that my guess is that you will not be able to explore anything without dragging a train of agros behind you that can't actually hurt you. And on top of that the areas of the map are not actually where they are supposed to be. With my undead char I tried to swim next to the shores and reach Quel'Thalas to see with my own eyes and when I actually got there I discovered it was on a different zone and found nothing but rocks although I was at the correct location on the World Map. WoW is the worst RPG for exploring I have ever played. There is as much as exploring as the Half-Life and other FPS games (roller coaster exploration). You want to be a scammer of thief, fine You can do that in WoW too though you wont live long with it and beign on every ignore list isn't good idea. Not nearly as effective or fun, especially with the auction system in place. You want to be a retard, fine Included in Darkfall launch buttom! Being a retard in Darfkall provides a much funner gameplay experience compared to WoW. You want to just do a bit of this and that, fine Yeah sure you can do that in WoW too. No, you can't. You can't have more than two professions at the same time, and you can't level professions without having to gain XP Levels parallely to unlock them. And more importantly, you can't be any combination of melee, tanker, archer, nuker, buffer, healer, aside from what your class provides.
So I must say, if you think this is not a sandbox, perhaps it is a matter of your own, unusual, definition of the word, because for all intents and purposes, the core of this game is nothing but one. From what i see WoW gives pretty much same options like this "sandbox" and WoW is called themepark. Try again.
Now granted, Darkfall is not nearly as sandboxy as it could be and my guess is that most players hope for more sand and posibilities enhancing solo expeirience to be added in the future, nevertheless comparing it with WoW is the definition of ignorance.
Furthermore, I would like to add that most of my WoW experience comes from my playing of the WoW Trial for a few days to see its elements for myself. I had an idea, but I couldn't believe how bad did Blizzard rape the Warcraft concept, at least what I though that a Warcraft MMO should be like. Of course I droped my trial account in a heartbeat once I figured I had been invited in Darkfall beta.
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
Actually the answer is no.
And you know why?
Not because more cannot be made of the framework that darkfall is, but that the current develpers cannot make more of the framework that darkfall is.
You are going to suggest, no doubt, that I cannot possibly state this with certainty. I can and heres two reasons why.
6 weeks from launch, no website update. This smacks of shorthanded production team. You even used that as an excuse , If I am not mistaken.
8 years.- The time period it took to get this far.
So, since launch, development hasnt accelerated, in fact, they are so short handed no one has an hour spare to point out the game launched, or to stop breaking European distance selling laws with the point of sale decriptions.
Given the above, it is then wise to look at the 8 year time period to get this far, and extrapolate just how long it would take to get much farther with the added content. especially given that , as widely accepted by the major guild leaders, they also have the hacking issues and siege issues to deal with.
And just for the record, UO was light years ahead of the framework darkfall is at launch , most of the things its repeatedly lauded for as the epitome of a sandbox were in fact in the game and functioning.
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
Actually the answer is no.
And you know why?
Not because more cannot be made of the framework that darkfall is, but that the current develpers cannot make more of the framework that darkfall is.
You are going to suggest, no doubt, that I cannot possibly state this with certainty. I can and heres two reasons why.
6 weeks from launch, no website update. This smacks of shorthanded production team. You even used that as an excuse , If I am not mistaken.
8 years.- The time period it took to get this far.
So, since launch, development hasnt accelerated, in fact, they are so short handed no one has an hour spare to point out the game launched, or to stop breaking European distance selling laws with the point of sale decriptions.
Given the above, it is then wise to look at the 8 year time period to get this far, and extrapolate just how long it would take to get much farther with the added content. especially given that , as widely accepted by the major guild leaders, they also have the hacking issues and siege issues to deal with.
And just for the record, UO was light years ahead of the framework darkfall is at launch , most of the things its repeatedly lauded for as the epitome of a sandbox were in fact in the game and functioning.
In my opinion, Darkfall, as it stands today, is not a sandbox. We are not talking about what might happen in the future, because no-one knows what's going to happen. If I understand correctly, you have to "level" your magic skills. Isn't that kinda linear. If I have to join a guild to do anything of significance, isn't that linear in a way? It's driving me to do something I may not want to do. If I just want to craft and I go out to collect supplies and get attacked, now I have to fight, isn't that the game telling me I have to do this? Thus, its linear and not a true sandbox. If the core mechanic of the game is FORCING me to do something...that's linear. But again, we haven't really defined a sandbox game and this is just my opinion.
I think people mistake open-ended character development with a sandbox game; sandbox is not just about the character, it's also about the game world. Darkfall is NOT a sandbox because it has one game direction only: PvP. A sandbox has many different avenues of game play that are viable for a successful experience in the MMO world, Darkfall currently does not offer that, but perhaps that could change.
Ok. First the haters said it was vaporware. Then thay said it existed, but would not launch, After that they said: If it launch it wont work. When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long. Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
I don't conside DF to be a complete sandbox. 1. You cannot live life as a trade with a store front. Yes you can. You just have to improvise on the store front part. 2. You cannot be a wandering traveler who lives off of the land. Umm, of course you can. Why couldn't you? 3. Combat is TOO much a primary focus. Well it is a FFA PVP game, so I suppose this is unavoidable, unless everyone decided to not simply kill each other at every opportunity, which, though very unlikely, could happen and would not really effect the overall game. WoW is not sandbox, DF is not Sandbox, hell, even AC is not sandbox (hunting is too much of a primary focus there as well, although once you've hunted enough, you could effectively live as a trader) DF is an RTS from a first person perspective. I am confused by your definition of a sandbox, I suppose.
Again.. Robert..I'm glad to see the clue bus just drove by.. next time stick your thumb out or something.
Please...
1. No, you cannot set up a storefront. spamming "TRADE" and hoping for visitors?? Well.. I guess.. but not really.
So, can you or can you not simply spend your time, in game, trading, if you wish?
2. No, you cannot be a nomad. I've tried.
Try harder...
3. Sandbox has to do with the natural progression of the character. Darkfalls center focus is combat. That's why it's not sandbox. You couldn't go your whole life with out picking up a sword.
You are wrong, as you could in fact play this game and never pick up a sword. I'll help you out.
1. Create a new character
2. Enter game
3. Go find a tool chest
4. Try not to die, but don't quit until you succeed in this task, if you do.
Ok. First the haters said it was vaporware. Then thay said it existed, but would not launch, After that they said: If it launch it wont work. When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long. Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
Good post Cereo!
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR. Playing EVE Online and AOC. Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
Because you can do anything you want, if all you want is fighting.
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Wow amazing... that's really sandbox.
Wow, didn't take long for the trolls to find this thread. I can't believe some are claiming that the game isn't a sandbox. It's funny, they accuse Darkfall fans for being blind and destructive, yet, just as the OP requested, we had a nice constructive thread going until they popped in and basically went "no u"
I don't conside DF to be a complete sandbox. 1. You cannot live life as a trade with a store front. Yes you can. You just have to improvise on the store front part. 2. You cannot be a wandering traveler who lives off of the land. Umm, of course you can. Why couldn't you? 3. Combat is TOO much a primary focus. Well it is a FFA PVP game, so I suppose this is unavoidable, unless everyone decided to not simply kill each other at every opportunity, which, though very unlikely, could happen and would not really effect the overall game. WoW is not sandbox, DF is not Sandbox, hell, even AC is not sandbox (hunting is too much of a primary focus there as well, although once you've hunted enough, you could effectively live as a trader) DF is an RTS from a first person perspective. I am confused by your definition of a sandbox, I suppose.
Again.. Robert..I'm glad to see the clue bus just drove by.. next time stick your thumb out or something.
Please...
1. No, you cannot set up a storefront. spamming "TRADE" and hoping for visitors?? Well.. I guess.. but not really.
So, can you or can you not simply spend your time, in game, trading, if you wish?
2. No, you cannot be a nomad. I've tried.
Try harder...
3. Sandbox has to do with the natural progression of the character. Darkfalls center focus is combat. That's why it's not sandbox. You couldn't go your whole life with out picking up a sword.
You are wrong, as you could in fact play this game and never pick up a sword. I'll help you out.
1. Create a new character
2. Enter game
3. Go find a tool chest
4. Try not to die, but don't quit until you succeed in this task, if you do.
Darkfall is a sandbox and there is no doubting it.
the devs do not interfere if someone steals from a person thru lies and betrayal . If im correct the goons managed to rob a guild bank dry. If somthing like this was done in wow it would be reported, the offended having a chance to be banned and the items given back.
I had 1 person in wow scam me of an item and thru the devs i got it back. That alone kills wow from being a sandbox. the devs do interfere with the subscribers.
Look at eve. Jita is full of scammers, people will do anything to nab things from you let it be an item or your money.
You can ransom people. be a pirate ect. You managed to do somthing that everyone talks about ccp would write a story about your feat. There have been some small corps that managed to build a station in 0.0 space, well tons of things have happened in eve.
Darkfall follows that same plan but it only has 2 things against it.
One cities are predetermined. they must be built in the same spot. If one is completely obliverated you cannot build another farther away or at a statigic location.
The 2nd is Universal banking. of the 2 this one can easly be fixed and it will open more paths on what you can be in darkfall.
You cannot be a bandit in darkfall due to universal banking, people dont make trade routes for you to ambush well people dont transfer huge amounts of goods to another location. They need to fix this asap. The good thing is most of the subscribers DO support that idea.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Ok. First the haters said it was vaporware. Then thay said it existed, but would not launch, After that they said: If it launch it wont work. When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long. Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
Good post Cereo!
Wow, you're the worst kind of troll cause I think you actually believe what you just said. All you keep blathering on about is the website. Everyone knows the website is outdated, it has been for years. Darkfall launched with just about every single feature they promised.
Yes, the game did LAUNCH. If you don't want to consider it a launch, well bully for you. You're wrong. The developers say it's launched, people buy and play the game, the game is launched.
Thousands of copies ARE sold every time the store opens, if you would bother to do any real research instead of trolling, you'd know that. You'd also know why the servers are more vastly complicated than other MMO servers (except for Eve)
The game is stable, all the main features are there, many many thousands are playing, and it just tears you up inside because the game isn't vaporware. Here let me add to the list of things you idiotic trolls have thought over the years. (any rational thinking person would have realized the game wasn't vaporware with 10 minutes of research)
Originally posted by daarco
Ok.
First the haters said it was vaporware
You said the gameplay trailer was all made with pre rendered graphics and none of it was possible in game
You said the tv commercials were fake
You claimed that Aventurine DDOSed their own website to buy them time, despite thousands of people STILL recieving their beta invite the day of the attack
You said the beta was a scam and didn't exist because there were no leaks
Then thay said it existed, but would not launch,
After that they said: If it launch it wont work.
When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long.
Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
There I think that covers a few of the very stupid things you people tried to spit out over the years.
Seriously, I would very much like to know if the people in this thread honestly believe that Darkfall is not a sandbox just because WoW also has a crafting system.
Really.
No levels, no classes, no rules on who you can kill, no rules on what you can wear, craft every item in the game, what else would make it a sandbox if the features I listed earlier, and now, do not?
It is a sanbox simply because you, as a player, can do pretty much whatever you want to do, with the tools provided by the devs.
You want to be PVP killer, fine You can do that in WoW too. Not until you've done enough quests to reach a big enough level for the game to set up pvp play-dates for you. Unlike Darkfall you can't just pick up a sword and level up by fighting players, without ever having the need to fight a single mob. You actually can get you newbie level 10 character and travel to an enemy starter town and find people of your level that will fight you. I've tried and achieved it with an undead travelling to Stormwind and fighting newbies. I strongly discourage anyone to even consider doing it ... Also pvp in WoW is much less fullfilling since you'll never fight for the honor of your clan, or to keep the precious city or ship you helped build and losing and winning doesn't actually matter much. You can play battlegrounds at low levels of course and if you actually get above 20 there is plenty of encouters with alliance that are doing same quest as you and saying PvP in WoW is less fullfulling and winning dont actually matters is pure ignorance you would be surprised how much fighting in arenas can be fullfilling if you get fight at high rating and aswell winning but my point is you can be PvP killer in WoW aswell not that you can be PvP killer since level 1 but beign able PvP since level 1 dont make it sandbox this makes it Counter-strike my friend. You want to be master Crafter, fine You can do that in WoW too and there is better crafting than in this "sandbox" No, you can't be a master crafter without first leveling enough to unlock the last master crafter level. This dependency on level is what makes a wow a themepark and a level based game. Yeah right like I'm saying something like this all I'm saying you can be Master Crafter aswell in WoW but you are right but now comes the catch and that is the crafting in Darkfall is really not worth a year old sausage so as crafting is now it is sandbox but it is in terrible state so we can come to conclusion the game is Lame Sandbox game. You want to slay monsters, fine Even the worst MMORPG will let you hit monster. Indeed. You want to own cities, fine One point! You want to be pirate Joe, fine Wtf? "Wtf" is not a rebuttal. Granted, pirating would be a lot more fun if the game had local banking but that's a different subject. Nevertheless you can still hijack ships in Darkfall. Well problem is i couldnt work out what exactly means beign pirate Joe but if you can hijack ships that Two points for me if it works. You want to explore, fine You can do that in WoW too. NO! Believe me, I've tried my best. The truth is that WoW is a land of boundaries with mountains heavily restricting travel and with seas of mobs that make it literally impossible for you to travel unless you've finished 763 quests first. And even if you do that my guess is that you will not be able to explore anything without dragging a train of agros behind you that can't actually hurt you. And on top of that the areas of the map are not actually where they are supposed to be. With my undead char I tried to swim next to the shores and reach Quel'Thalas to see with my own eyes and when I actually got there I discovered it was on a different zone and found nothing but rocks although I was at the correct location on the World Map. WoW is the worst RPG for exploring I have ever played. There is as much as exploring as the Half-Life and other FPS games (roller coaster exploration). There is as much as exploring as the Half life and other FPS games. Did you even played the game?There is plenty of locations and every zone is diffrent when i was playing for the first time i was completly smashed what loads of exploring and meeting new enemies and other lands is awaiting me every zone have unique enemies flora and even quests are around the lore ( Finding out what is wrong with water in Tanaris for example )
You want to be a scammer of thief, fine You can do that in WoW too though you wont live long with it and beign on every ignore list isn't good idea.Not nearly as effective or fun, especially with the auction system in place. Very very wrong i see you are not skilled with scamming in WoW using Auction house but dont let get into this discussion. You want to be a retard, fine Included in Darkfall launch buttom! Being a retard in Darfkall provides a much funner gameplay experience compared to WoW. Well cant see anything funny about beign retard but if you found acting like someone with 70IQ funnier in Darkfall than in WoW you are welcome. You want to just do a bit of this and that, fine Yeah sure you can do that in WoW too. No, you can't. You can't have more than two professions at the same time, and you can't level professions without having to gain XP Levels parallely to unlock them. And more importantly, you can't be any combination of melee, tanker, archer, nuker, buffer, healer, aside from what your class provides. Yes we can!Oh well heard Obama too much and I'm living so far from USA well anyway about profession i told you and about these class combinations.... What combinations in Darkfall damn are everyone is two handed guy in heavy armor and that it is this makes it bad game not sandbox my friend btw you CAN be tanker and nuker even tanker and buffer aswell it is all about build but after Wotlk every tanker is pretty much nuker. So I must say, if you think this is not a sandbox, perhaps it is a matter of your own, unusual, definition of the word, because for all intents and purposes, the core of this game is nothing but one. From what i see WoW gives pretty much same options like this "sandbox" and WoW is called themepark. Try again. Now the another thing is that Darkfall is working like with levels because your skills improve only on 1-25 25-50 50-75 75-100 For me Darkfall is Very badly made Counter-Strike in Sandbox game.
Now granted, Darkfall is not nearly as sandboxy as it could be and my guess is that most players hope for more sand and posibilities enhancing solo expeirience to be added in the future, nevertheless comparing it with WoW is the definition of ignorance.
Furthermore, I would like to add that most of my WoW experience comes from my playing of the WoW Trial for a few days to see its elements for myself. I had an idea, but I couldn't believe how bad did Blizzard rape the Warcraft concept, at least what I though that a Warcraft MMO should be like. Of course I droped my trial account in a heartbeat once I figured I had been invited in Darkfall beta.
I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
And that's the problem. None of these threads ever go anywhere because there is no "World Sandbox Game Standards Committee " that defines what such a game really involves, so we end up with everyone creating their own definitions.
Games like WOW, AOC and WAR fall on the left side of the line, while games like Darkfall, EVE, UO fall on the right side to varying degrees.
Of course, as we see from the debate in this thread, some folks think certain features are a "must have" in a sandbox game, say like player housing in the game world, and w/o it they'll toss out the entire game.
I don't agree with defining games on one or two features, but prefer to look at the entire package, and based on these criteria, feel that DF clearly falls to the right side of the line, even if it doesn't reach the levels of UO/SWG (yet)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
And that's the problem. None of these threads ever go anywhere because there is no "World Sandbox Game Standards Committee " that defines what such a game really involves, so we end up with everyone creating their own definitions.
Games like WOW, AOC and WAR fall on the left side of the line, while games like Darkfall, EVE, UO fall on the right side to varying degrees.
Of course, as we see from the debate in this thread, some folks think certain features are a "must have" in a sandbox game, say like player housing in the game world, and w/o it they'll toss out the entire game.
I don't agree with defining games on one or two features, but prefer to look at the entire package, and based on these criteria, feel that DF clearly falls to the right side of the line, even if it doesn't reach the levels of UO/SWG (yet)
Comments
"I played SWG therefore I have authority to call DF whatever I want!" - That is what you are trying to say, daarco? Seriously?
What are these "more" features added every week? Did you see the WoW patch that came out yesterday? THAT my friend is adding features to an MMO. Fixes DFs own bugs and errors in coding is nice and welcome, but it's not "more features". I only mention that because you know... you tried to throw the common sense at me, so I'm just trying to use it.
I was mostly trying to get people to think. To think there will be more features added later : ) Wich make it pointless to whine about it.
I call DF andbox because i can do whatever i want to do, whenever i want to. No game mechanic stands in my way...just as nothing stopped me in SWG.......for me. You might not think any MMO is sandbox.
Scary but what daarco said is correct. While I don't think DF is a true sandbox right now. It's more like a sandbox-lite game. That could change in the future though. Not sure if it will considering the main focus of DF is purely combat.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
There's no agreed upon definition of a sandbox game. As some have pointed out, you could make an arguement that WOW is a sandbox game depending on how you define one.
But I do think there are certain features typical of the more sandbox type game as opposed that are class/level based and quest driven.
As such, I think all games have to be measured on a scale, based on how many sandbox type features they include, and what is the player's primary method of progression.
While its true, you could play WOW and never run a quest, it would be rather silly, since the goal of the game is to level up your charcater, and questing is clearly the path developers have put forth to accomplish efficient leveling to 80. True, players could ignore that path, however they would clearly be gimping their gaming experience.
Contrast that with EVE. There really isn't a single path to success a player must follow. Training happens regardless what path you chose, at more or less the same rate as other people.
You can succeed in EVE and never train a combat skill, and you won't be gimping your game experience if you chose not to pvp in 0.0 space. Every path in EVE is a viable option, I know players who do nothing but trade, and have amassed billions upon billions of ISK, simiply because it amuses them to be economic titans. Others do the same with mining, or crafting, and some do it by the use of the gun, in killing/looting other players.
But back to Darkfall, which was the OP. It has many of the commonly accepted standards of sandbox type games, like skills vs classes, not quest oriented, ffa PVP with looting, crafting etc. Sure, it may not have every feature of other sandbox games (and lets face it, most people complaining are comparing it to SWG/UO in every case, considered to be the standards in sandbox games by most) but that does not make it primariy a sandbox vs a linear game like WOW.
Its nit-picking to say DF isn't a sandbox because its missing 3 elements that some other game had. They are not deal breakers, inherently, DF is a sandbox in most peoples eyes, unless they are just trying to be contrary.
For example, one person said its not a sandbox if it doesn't have pet taming. Please, that's a nice feature of a couple of games. (SWG and Lineage 2 come to my mind) but that doesn't totally define a sandbox. Heck, WOW has pet taming and that certainly doesn't weigh in on the sandbox side of the scale for it.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You missed the point of taming. There are animals in the world and I can interact with them and use them to get fame and riches if I choose. There are not even animals in DF, let alone the ability to interact with them. A sandbox is a game you can do whatever you want to do, not "a list of a few features that are commonly accepted"... that is just BS you are claiming exists as an elite MMO player, which doesn't hold any real ground on anything besides in your own mind.
You cannot do whatever you want to in DF and have fun. You HAVE to PvP and you also have to be in a guild to play the game "correctly". And since you mentioned WoW and told us the "correct" way they designed it (which is purely your opinion), I can do the same for DF. The correct way to play DF is to PvP in a guild all the time, that is what the devs intended and that's what most people do and claim you should do on these forums.
See how easily I did the same thing to DF you did with WoW? Your perspective is all out of wack. It's simple, in UO/SWG I could do whatever I wanted... in DF you have to PvP. Not a sandbox, move on, it is just devoid of features. And like people said, they might be added a couple years down the road, good... then I'll play it, but right now it is hardly a game I can do whatever I want, the tools are not there.
Good post and I agree, for the most part.
Regarding the above, the same can and is being done by players in Darkfall.
I have two EVE accounts, the first a 0.0 combat pilot, the other a hi-sec miner. Both of these are viable professions, (the miner actually makes more isk, due to the inherent costs of PVP my combat pilot incurs).
In Darkfall, you can pretty much do the exact same thing, though admittedly, Darkfall is not as mature as EVE Online currently is and many of the updates added to EVE over the years have significantly improved, (or not
), the original content of the game. This being the case, as well as the fact that Darkfall is a brand new game, I can easily see AV taking the path of another indy developer, CCP.
We will just have to wait and see.
I suppose that in order for this thread to actually go anywhere of use, someone should actually define the word "Sandbox". Otherwise we are simply going to end up with an argument of semantics.
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Can't you do that in any game where you have those features? For instance in WoW I could be those things, I could just do nothing but crafting or, I could just go around exploring all day, and never fight one thing If I don't want to. I know, I know WoW is a theme park game but you can still only do those things if you really wanted to.
You don't have to kill things in any game if you don't want to, but you won't get to a higher level combat wise if you don't. But I play these types of games to go on an adventure and kill things as well be those things on the side.. Just like in DnD I played as an adventurer, it would be boring if all i did in dnd is craft things and build houses. Thats just me of course and its cool if thats all what people want to do, im fine with that.
Features I call sandbox would be.
1) Building things wherever you want to.
2) Players actions influence the game world for everyone not just them selves. e.g. if im a orc and I start killing a bunch of humans, the humans will hate all orc players. Unlike WoW where if I kill a faction and they just hate me and not my whole race. Also there could be ways to get on their good side again if you wanted to.
3) The freedom to do whatever you want without being gimped in some sort of way.
That's all I can think of right now but I think a lot of people have the misconseption of what a sandbox game is. What did you do when you were young and played in the sandbox? You built things and manipulated the sand how you wanted it to be.
A sandbox game to me = players can manipulate the game for all others to see and their actions effect all players. Thats all simple as that.
Agreed. But I think someone already did. The genre of MMOs are all open ended worlds where you can do what you like, that is what the genre is all about. It's the elite vs the casual gamers that started to throw in words like themepark, linear, and sandbox. Everyone argues over the semantics like you said.
My point without using those thrown around words was the things I enjoyed most in UO are not in DF, therefore I don't want to play it yet and do not consider it as feature full as UO was. And I comment because too many people say "If you like UO, you'll like this! It's a sandbox just like it!". Really they mean "If you liked PvP in UO then you'll vaguely have nostagalic feels for a brief period of time, mainly when you loot a corpse."
Agreed. But I think someone already did. The genre of MMOs are all open ended worlds where you can do what you like, that is what the genre is all about. It's the elite vs the casual gamers that started to throw in words like themepark, linear, and sandbox. Everyone argues over the semantics like you said.
My point without using those thrown around words was the things I enjoyed most in UO are not in DF, therefore I don't want to play it yet and do not consider it as feature full as UO was. And I comment because too many people say "If you like UO, you'll like this! It's a sandbox just like it!". Really they mean "If you liked PvP in UO then you'll vaguely have nostagalic feels for a brief period of time, mainly when you loot a corpse."
Features versus the core of the game.
UO, if I remember correctly, started in a much less developed state then it ended up as.
The question I believe that is relevant here is this;
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
For this game, I believe that the answer is of course, yes and quite easily so.
Will this be the case? We'll see.
Now granted, Darkfall is not nearly as sandboxy as it could be and my guess is that most players hope for more sand and posibilities enhancing solo expeirience to be added in the future, nevertheless comparing it with WoW is the definition of ignorance.
Furthermore, I would like to add that most of my WoW experience comes from my playing of the WoW Trial for a few days to see its elements for myself. I had an idea, but I couldn't believe how bad did Blizzard rape the Warcraft concept, at least what I though that a Warcraft MMO should be like. Of course I droped my trial account in a heartbeat once I figured I had been invited in Darkfall beta.
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
Actually the answer is no.
And you know why?
Not because more cannot be made of the framework that darkfall is, but that the current develpers cannot make more of the framework that darkfall is.
You are going to suggest, no doubt, that I cannot possibly state this with certainty. I can and heres two reasons why.
6 weeks from launch, no website update. This smacks of shorthanded production team. You even used that as an excuse , If I am not mistaken.
8 years.- The time period it took to get this far.
So, since launch, development hasnt accelerated, in fact, they are so short handed no one has an hour spare to point out the game launched, or to stop breaking European distance selling laws with the point of sale decriptions.
Given the above, it is then wise to look at the 8 year time period to get this far, and extrapolate just how long it would take to get much farther with the added content. especially given that , as widely accepted by the major guild leaders, they also have the hacking issues and siege issues to deal with.
And just for the record, UO was light years ahead of the framework darkfall is at launch , most of the things its repeatedly lauded for as the epitome of a sandbox were in fact in the game and functioning.
Do the core game mechanics in Darkfall allow for the future addition of various content that will not, in and of themselves, require any changes to the core of the game?
In other words, can more stuff be easily added to the sandbox?
Actually the answer is no.
And you know why?
Not because more cannot be made of the framework that darkfall is, but that the current develpers cannot make more of the framework that darkfall is.
You are going to suggest, no doubt, that I cannot possibly state this with certainty. I can and heres two reasons why.
6 weeks from launch, no website update. This smacks of shorthanded production team. You even used that as an excuse , If I am not mistaken.
8 years.- The time period it took to get this far.
So, since launch, development hasnt accelerated, in fact, they are so short handed no one has an hour spare to point out the game launched, or to stop breaking European distance selling laws with the point of sale decriptions.
Given the above, it is then wise to look at the 8 year time period to get this far, and extrapolate just how long it would take to get much farther with the added content. especially given that , as widely accepted by the major guild leaders, they also have the hacking issues and siege issues to deal with.
And just for the record, UO was light years ahead of the framework darkfall is at launch , most of the things its repeatedly lauded for as the epitome of a sandbox were in fact in the game and functioning.
As I said before, "We'll see..."...
Ok.
First the haters said it was vaporware.
Then thay said it existed, but would not launch,
After that they said: If it launch it wont work.
When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long.
Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
In my opinion, Darkfall, as it stands today, is not a sandbox. We are not talking about what might happen in the future, because no-one knows what's going to happen. If I understand correctly, you have to "level" your magic skills. Isn't that kinda linear. If I have to join a guild to do anything of significance, isn't that linear in a way? It's driving me to do something I may not want to do. If I just want to craft and I go out to collect supplies and get attacked, now I have to fight, isn't that the game telling me I have to do this? Thus, its linear and not a true sandbox. If the core mechanic of the game is FORCING me to do something...that's linear. But again, we haven't really defined a sandbox game and this is just my opinion.
I think people mistake open-ended character development with a sandbox game; sandbox is not just about the character, it's also about the game world. Darkfall is NOT a sandbox because it has one game direction only: PvP. A sandbox has many different avenues of game play that are viable for a successful experience in the MMO world, Darkfall currently does not offer that, but perhaps that could change.
Darkfall is at best a PvP-Sandbox-Hybrid.
Cheers.
Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
Again.. Robert..I'm glad to see the clue bus just drove by.. next time stick your thumb out or something.
Please...
1. No, you cannot set up a storefront. spamming "TRADE" and hoping for visitors?? Well.. I guess.. but not really.
So, can you or can you not simply spend your time, in game, trading, if you wish?
2. No, you cannot be a nomad. I've tried.
Try harder...
3. Sandbox has to do with the natural progression of the character. Darkfalls center focus is combat. That's why it's not sandbox. You couldn't go your whole life with out picking up a sword.
You are wrong, as you could in fact play this game and never pick up a sword. I'll help you out.
1. Create a new character
2. Enter game
3. Go find a tool chest
4. Try not to die, but don't quit until you succeed in this task, if you do.
5. Go to any appropriate racial town
6. Start harvesting
7. Sell these materials
8. Repeat until you can afford a crafting skill
9. Craft items and sell them
10. Any questions?
Glad to see that wow is a sandbox..
Currently playing Real Life..
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Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Wow amazing... that's really sandbox.
Wow, didn't take long for the trolls to find this thread. I can't believe some are claiming that the game isn't a sandbox. It's funny, they accuse Darkfall fans for being blind and destructive, yet, just as the OP requested, we had a nice constructive thread going until they popped in and basically went "no u"
Darkfall Travelogues!
Again.. Robert..I'm glad to see the clue bus just drove by.. next time stick your thumb out or something.
Please...
1. No, you cannot set up a storefront. spamming "TRADE" and hoping for visitors?? Well.. I guess.. but not really.
So, can you or can you not simply spend your time, in game, trading, if you wish?
2. No, you cannot be a nomad. I've tried.
Try harder...
3. Sandbox has to do with the natural progression of the character. Darkfalls center focus is combat. That's why it's not sandbox. You couldn't go your whole life with out picking up a sword.
You are wrong, as you could in fact play this game and never pick up a sword. I'll help you out.
1. Create a new character
2. Enter game
3. Go find a tool chest
4. Try not to die, but don't quit until you succeed in this task, if you do.
5. Go to any appropriate racial town
6. Start harvesting
7. Sell these materials
8. Repeat until you can afford a crafting skill
9. Craft items and sell them
10. Any questions?
Glad to see that wow is a sandbox..
?
In your opinion, I guess...
Darkfall is a sandbox and there is no doubting it.
the devs do not interfere if someone steals from a person thru lies and betrayal . If im correct the goons managed to rob a guild bank dry. If somthing like this was done in wow it would be reported, the offended having a chance to be banned and the items given back.
I had 1 person in wow scam me of an item and thru the devs i got it back. That alone kills wow from being a sandbox. the devs do interfere with the subscribers.
Look at eve. Jita is full of scammers, people will do anything to nab things from you let it be an item or your money.
You can ransom people. be a pirate ect. You managed to do somthing that everyone talks about ccp would write a story about your feat. There have been some small corps that managed to build a station in 0.0 space, well tons of things have happened in eve.
Darkfall follows that same plan but it only has 2 things against it.
One cities are predetermined. they must be built in the same spot. If one is completely obliverated you cannot build another farther away or at a statigic location.
The 2nd is Universal banking. of the 2 this one can easly be fixed and it will open more paths on what you can be in darkfall.
You cannot be a bandit in darkfall due to universal banking, people dont make trade routes for you to ambush well people dont transfer huge amounts of goods to another location. They need to fix this asap. The good thing is most of the subscribers DO support that idea.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Do you have this on auto-pilot posting? I swear I hear you say this regularly. The game did indeed seem like vaporware for awhile there but they were indeed wrong. But the rest... it did not launch yet. I know you are paying to play it but it did not launch, see their website for more information on that, but congrats on paying for a beta at full retail cost and the monthly sub. Don't worry we are laughing with you, not at you.
And while the game does "work" and is stable from what I hear, again take a gander at their website. There are tons of features and ideas that they said would be in the game and are not remotely there. And what's the deal? One server? This excuse is getting old. According to fanboys, they sell "thousands" of copies everytime the store opens. If that were true, they have enough money to open another server. Most F2P games have way more than 1 server. Way to get more money is get more people playing... standard business 101. There's a reason there is one server and it's not money, it's that you are beta testing their game and paying THEM to do it. I hope no other developers notice how crazy some people are.
Spinning things out of context is DF fans special trademark though, where is Mike when I need him?
Wow, you're the worst kind of troll cause I think you actually believe what you just said. All you keep blathering on about is the website. Everyone knows the website is outdated, it has been for years. Darkfall launched with just about every single feature they promised.
Yes, the game did LAUNCH. If you don't want to consider it a launch, well bully for you. You're wrong. The developers say it's launched, people buy and play the game, the game is launched.
Thousands of copies ARE sold every time the store opens, if you would bother to do any real research instead of trolling, you'd know that. You'd also know why the servers are more vastly complicated than other MMO servers (except for Eve)
The game is stable, all the main features are there, many many thousands are playing, and it just tears you up inside because the game isn't vaporware. Here let me add to the list of things you idiotic trolls have thought over the years. (any rational thinking person would have realized the game wasn't vaporware with 10 minutes of research)
Originally posted by daarco
Ok.
First the haters said it was vaporware
You said the gameplay trailer was all made with pre rendered graphics and none of it was possible in game
You said the tv commercials were fake
You claimed that Aventurine DDOSed their own website to buy them time, despite thousands of people STILL recieving their beta invite the day of the attack
You said the beta was a scam and didn't exist because there were no leaks
Then thay said it existed, but would not launch,
After that they said: If it launch it wont work.
When DF worked, they said it would not work for very long.
Then they complained about a player made citys had no gates.
Now the haters argues if its a sandbox game or not.
From this we can try and guess what the next big complein from haters will be: you cant travel in space!
There I think that covers a few of the very stupid things you people tried to spit out over the years.
Seriously, I would very much like to know if the people in this thread honestly believe that Darkfall is not a sandbox just because WoW also has a crafting system.
Really.
No levels, no classes, no rules on who you can kill, no rules on what you can wear, craft every item in the game, what else would make it a sandbox if the features I listed earlier, and now, do not?
Darkfall Travelogues!
Now granted, Darkfall is not nearly as sandboxy as it could be and my guess is that most players hope for more sand and posibilities enhancing solo expeirience to be added in the future, nevertheless comparing it with WoW is the definition of ignorance.
Furthermore, I would like to add that most of my WoW experience comes from my playing of the WoW Trial for a few days to see its elements for myself. I had an idea, but I couldn't believe how bad did Blizzard rape the Warcraft concept, at least what I though that a Warcraft MMO should be like. Of course I droped my trial account in a heartbeat once I figured I had been invited in Darkfall beta.
And that's the problem. None of these threads ever go anywhere because there is no "World Sandbox Game Standards Committee " that defines what such a game really involves, so we end up with everyone creating their own definitions.
My preferred model goes like this:
Fewer sandbox More sandbox
features features
<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Games like WOW, AOC and WAR fall on the left side of the line, while games like Darkfall, EVE, UO fall on the right side to varying degrees.
Of course, as we see from the debate in this thread, some folks think certain features are a "must have" in a sandbox game, say like player housing in the game world, and w/o it they'll toss out the entire game.
I don't agree with defining games on one or two features, but prefer to look at the entire package, and based on these criteria, feel that DF clearly falls to the right side of the line, even if it doesn't reach the levels of UO/SWG (yet)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And that's the problem. None of these threads ever go anywhere because there is no "World Sandbox Game Standards Committee " that defines what such a game really involves, so we end up with everyone creating their own definitions.
My preferred model goes like this:
Fewer sandbox More sandbox
features features
<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Games like WOW, AOC and WAR fall on the left side of the line, while games like Darkfall, EVE, UO fall on the right side to varying degrees.
Of course, as we see from the debate in this thread, some folks think certain features are a "must have" in a sandbox game, say like player housing in the game world, and w/o it they'll toss out the entire game.
I don't agree with defining games on one or two features, but prefer to look at the entire package, and based on these criteria, feel that DF clearly falls to the right side of the line, even if it doesn't reach the levels of UO/SWG (yet)
Good post and a fair assessment.