Jackdog, I won't argue with what you said though I am not sure xFire shows much more than perhaps a trend or spike or perhaps momentum rather than real popularity, that is not a slam at LotRO more a reflection that I think xFire and things like that are not universally adopted so they skew demographically. LotRO is doing fine population wise and is healthy and stable, the grouping issues that annoy me and others in LotRO are based on the system more than available players. LotRO is a good game with nothing to apologize for either in terms of style or popularity.
That being said, the continuing 'we are the next WoW' type comments from Turbine are just stupid and pointless especially given their refusal to give the numbers to support their inferences. Furthermore, fans that echo those statements or argue that there are so many people playing so you are wrong on this critique or that commentary are also out of line and that is what I was reacting too. In my book, WoW (which I don't even like from what I know of it) is just about the only game that can point to its size/popularity as evidence that someone criticizing may be off the mark or at least out of the mainstream because it clearly has done something no game has. LotRO is a good game and certainly successful but it has not earned the right to do what many fans do which is hold up is inferred size/popularity as justification for any game element or choice someone criticizes.
But ....IF LOTRO was a very good game it would have gotten much more popular... because you can hardly go wrong with something like "Lord of the Rings" with the masses.
Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Why do LotRO fans have to try to make this game out to be something it clearly isn't?
I'm not. but it is growing. Technicaly, your the one jumping on everyone for saying trhat it is growing. This was only an issue, becouse you made it one.
Turbine is not a public company, so they have no need to post subscriber numbers, they traditionally have never really done it with a few exceptions, they have instead continued to grow the game. Looks to be working.
No matter how many posts, he will not see this, ever experience.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
But ....IF LOTRO was a very good game it would have gotten much more popular... because you can hardly go wrong with something like "Lord of the Rings" with the masses.
Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Dying? Dead? They are still around, just like LoTRO. Sorry, you're just another bender ;-/
But ....IF LOTRO was a very good game it would have gotten much more popular... because you can hardly go wrong with something like "Lord of the Rings" with the masses.
Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Dying? Dead? They are still around, just like LoTRO. Sorry, you're just another bender ;-/
No dude, the bending was about the point.
IP will not make an MMO successful alone, this is proven by SWG, AOC and, some argue, LOTRO as well. So, these 3 prove the same point. You are only trolling by trying to generate an argument what wasn't there.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Why do LotRO fans have to try to make this game out to be something it clearly isn't? Are you so jealous of WoW's success that you constantly have to invent ways to try to claim that kind of success without even having achieved it? If you love the game, and enjoy the game, then why worry about those who think it is boring or otherwise lacking? LotRO is a fine game, and I am sure a commercial success for Turbine in no uncertain terms. But an MMO that goes live and at no point after ads servers to US/Euro markets just doesn't get to run around making claims about how big it is or how growing it is and anyone who knows the genre knows this is the case. Be it 'millions of characters' or '2nd largest MMO made on weekends in Northern US with one hand held behind our back" type BS claims or the constant claims from fans that this game is uniquely large or growing in some industry notable way.
Let it go, if any of the claims that Turbine and LotRO fans make, or insinuate, about LotROs populations where true turbine would be posting sub numbers anywhere that would let them, the fact that they won't release them despite marketing campaigns based off the whole bandwagon style only proves that there is nothing much noteworthy about the subs despite them likely being good enough to make the game a success and stable.
I think the only one comparing this to WoW is you. No one said this is a WoW killer. Given that, the population IS growing. They are testing the "boosted" server this Thursday. Instead of adding more servers, they are "boosting" the ones they have. There are other ways to gauge population other than counting servers,
I don't know why you refuse to see the evidence in front of you, and fail to give ANY evidence of your own. I think they spell that T-R-O-L-L.
Jackdog, I won't argue with what you said though I am not sure xFire shows much more than perhaps a trend or spike or perhaps momentum rather than real popularity, that is not a slam at LotRO more a reflection that I think xFire and things like that are not universally adopted so they skew demographically. LotRO is doing fine population wise and is healthy and stable, the grouping issues that annoy me and others in LotRO are based on the system more than available players. LotRO is a good game with nothing to apologize for either in terms of style or popularity.
That being said, the continuing 'we are the next WoW' type comments from Turbine are just stupid and pointless especially given their refusal to give the numbers to support their inferences. Furthermore, fans that echo those statements or argue that there are so many people playing so you are wrong on this critique or that commentary are also out of line and that is what I was reacting too. In my book, WoW (which I don't even like from what I know of it) is just about the only game that can point to its size/popularity as evidence that someone criticizing may be off the mark or at least out of the mainstream because it clearly has done something no game has. LotRO is a good game and certainly successful but it has not earned the right to do what many fans do which is hold up is inferred size/popularity as justification for any game element or choice someone criticizes.
Mr. Smith, you're reacting to something that doesn't exist in the thread in which you're posting your reaction. You've been called out on it many times, and yet you keep repeating the same absurd allegation and trying to tapdance around the fact that your assertions of fact are not holding up. First you accuse people directly of making statements they never made, and then when you get called out on it, you say "oh, I wasn't really directing it at you even though I said 'you' countless times", and starting talking in generalities about the fanbase parroting statements you've mischaracterized from Turbine, but you fail even when asked to provide any specific incidents to support your allegations. What are you really trying to do here if not simply trolling?
I’m not sure why there is all the argument regarding how popular the game is or isn’t.
For a start, a very popular game does not mean it is good or great, WoW is the perfect example of this-is it original? No, it follows the format of many MMOs. Is it innovative? No, it has not taken any big strides forward for MMOs. Are the graphics awe inspiring? No, they were designed to be appealing and to allow a smooth running on older machines...a clever choice, but nothing more. It is a simple, fairly mindless grind to the top and then raids. It is simple and it does simple very well. WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO world. It is hugely successful but what it offers is nothing special compared to what else is around.
Is LOTRO growing? Possibly, there is no definite proof, nor is there proof to say otherwise. The fact no new servers are added proves very little-they opened with a large number of servers and it would likely take doubling the popularity to required servers, possibly even more than that due to optimisations they are doing. Most games open with a hell of a lot of spare capacity.
LOTRO may well be the 2nd biggest MMO, it may not be, but it makes no difference one way or the other-it seems to be popular and doing well. Turbine are not claiming to be the next WoW, from what I see their ambition is to be second to WoW, it’s a good ambition to have, and they believe they are-if they are indeed 2nd biggest MMO then the have achieved that.
From the quotes Smith gave, it shows the following things:
Turbine want to achieve mass market-they have been successful in EU and America and are opening up in other countries. So this means they are well on their way to achieve this, some could argue they have.
They want to reach mass market critical effect-they certainly haven’t done this, it is an ambitious goal but having reached mass market it is common sense this would be their next aim.
It is not bragging, it is ambition and goals. They know what they want and are trying to achieve it, if you believe it is some bragging BS, then I feel you are misinterpreting it.
They don’t need people to believe their claims-they are not trying to prove anything, Turbine is a business, they don’t give a damn about whether someone things they are as big as WoW, they are making money and they want to make more money and they have talked about intentions and basically how they intend to make money. They have no reason to give out numbers, if they say they are growing then they likely are-they don’t need to lie, the game is in a healthy state, the only time devs lie about growth is when a game is dead (like Vanguard) and they are trying to give their players some hope that things will get better. Whether or not you believe LOTRO is growing or not, no one disputes the game is successful and healthy, so lying is something Turbine don’t need to do.
Do you really think numbers would prove anything? If people think they are ling now when they have no reason to, why would they believe them with numbers? If they said ‘we have 1 million subscribers!’ the doubters will either say they are lying or including a bunch of people subscribing that no longer play. All numbers do is tell Turbine profits, and that is stuff only they need to know.
Besides, even if LOTRO is the 2nd most popular game, we all know it is far behind WoW, and Turbine have never suggested anything to the contrary-they know they will never get close to WoW numbers. But number 2 is quite an achievement and is a good claim to have....but number 2 could only be 400-500K people (which pre WoW would be considered a staggering success) , so being number 2 is great, but announcing that you are number 2 and 9.5 million away from the top suddenly seems a whole lot less exciting, and there is no reason for it.
Turbine are happy where they are and that clearly shows in their interviews, they are ambitious which is also clearly shown, and they have good grand goals which are very achievable (To be mass market and reach critical effect, NOT to dethrone or even get close to WoWs numbers). They believe they are growing and have no reason to lie-they have nothing to prove to anyone, their profits do the talking, and as said earlier, numbers would prove no more than them stating they are growing.
Fans believe the game is growing too, they have no proof of this and it is nothing more than a feeling they have when playing and seeing many other players around, they enjoy the game and are proud of its seemingly growing success. There is nothing wrong with that and there is no reason why claims of success or growth should bother anyone because if you don’t like the game then its success or failure means little to you anyway.
I have only just started playing LOTRO along with a few friends, we needed a new MMO and decided to try it, so far it is fun. I have no idea whether the game is hugely popular or growing, it is certainly populated which is good enough for me. I am having fun and don’t give a damn one way or another if the game is growing, as long as it is not dying I am happy. I would think most players feel the same...which is another reason why Turbine have no need to lie about growth and increasing success-most of us don’t care, as long as the game is healthy.
IP will not make an MMO successful alone, this is proven by SWG, AOC and, some argue, LOTRO as well. So, these 3 prove the same point. You are only trolling by trying to generate an argument what wasn't there. DB
I agree with you, it takes a good game first. I would suggest, though, that LotRO has one hell of a lot more in common (in terms of subs and popularity) with those games then it does with WoW and that is why it is so annoying the way Turbine and fans are always holding LotRO up to be in WoW's league or otherwise suggesting that LotRO is so popular and succesful as to be beyond criticism.
Originally posted by junzo316 I think the only one comparing this to WoW is you. No one said this is a WoW killer. Given that, the population IS growing. They are testing the "boosted" server this Thursday. Instead of adding more servers, they are "boosting" the ones they have. There are other ways to gauge population other than counting servers,
Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
Originally posted by AgtSmith Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
No more so than you see some fans do with every game that's come out since WoW. Yeah, they can be annoying but not sure why you think it's so different with them compared to others. Every game has those...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by AgtSmith Originally posted by junzo316 I think the only one comparing this to WoW is you. No one said this is a WoW killer. Given that, the population IS growing. They are testing the "boosted" server this Thursday. Instead of adding more servers, they are "boosting" the ones they have. There are other ways to gauge population other than counting servers,
Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
Did the post to which you were reacting compare the game in any way to WoW? I'll post the relevant text from it here:
"Originally posted by Jackdog
as terrrible as some want to portray the game to be it has been out for 2 years nowand has a higher population now than it did a year ago..... f 'ing amazing isn't it LOL"
Whatever you might think about the inappropriateness of the poster's dismissive tone, to imply or say that he said something he didn't is dishonest. He made no comparison to WoW, and you've still not shown any instances of anyone saying LoTRO's a WoW-killer. You directly accused individual people on here of saying it, and then tried to tapdance out of the corner into which you painted yourself when you got called on it by spouting vague, generalized allegations of "LoTRO fans saying it all the time." If they say it all the time, why are you having so much trouble showing where and when they say it?
Like I said, if you want to pull something out of there, clean it off first and make it honest before attempting to troll an entire community with dishonest ranting.
You can flame me all you want for saying that people making proclamations about population (big or small) are full of it all you want but it seems hollow when people who routinely make unsubstantiated claims don't get called for it. That comment you quote is entirely unsubstantiated and improvable and it is thrown out to be dismissive of those who had criticism of the game (the game is growing so you are obvious wrong type thing).
You can flame me all you want for saying that people making proclamations about population (big or small) are full of it all you want but it seems hollow when people who routinely make unsubstantiated claims don't get called for it. That comment you quote is entirely unsubstantiated and improvable and it is thrown out to be dismissive of those who had criticism of the game (the game is growing so you are obvious wrong type thing).
That still doesn't substantiate the dishonest ranting you've been doing about WoW comparisons. If you want to say that the claims of the poster were unsubstantiated and that you found the tone to be dismissive, that would be a pretty hard statement against which to argue. However, to imply that, because someone is saying that the game has a higher population than it did a year ago, he is saying that it's a WoW-killer is dishonest. Also, to pull out the flame card when you've been dishonestly flaming an entire community is hypocritical. If you want to debate a point, that's perfectly fine - just don't pull BS out of your posterior to try to win the debate.
Yep, same thing here. But I have finaly found the source of my problem. Lotro has everything, yet they somehow managed to screw up the most important feature, the thing you do all the time: Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play. Take for example Linage 2. This game is a pure grind. There are almost no quests, so you grind for months until you get to the levels to enjoy some good pvp. Yet combat hits hard and is fast. It's fun to play. In lotro after playing for 1 hour I am already bored and switch it off. When I play Lineage 2 I can play for hours to no end, and after all these years, every time I come back to it , it still keeps me playing for whole nights and I don't even realize it until the next morning. L2 has no quests and most mobs are just standing there, this is nothing compared to the lotro world... But combat is fast and makes you actually feel you are hitting something. This together with the great character progression makes the game fun to play. Then you add the great team play, the player trading and the pvp with castle owneship and you have a great game. Now take lotro.... slow boring combat... ruins everything.
"Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play."
You hit the nail on the head. The character animations are some of the worst of any mmo I have played.
I agree with you, it takes a good game first. I would suggest, though, that LotRO has one hell of a lot more in common (in terms of subs and popularity) with those games then it does with WoW and that is why it is so annoying the way Turbine and fans are always holding LotRO up to be in WoW's league or otherwise suggesting that LotRO is so popular and succesful as to be beyond criticism. No dude, they don't. You're completely alone saying they do.
Originally posted by junzo316 I think the only one comparing this to WoW is you. No one said this is a WoW killer. Given that, the population IS growing. They are testing the "boosted" server this Thursday. Instead of adding more servers, they are "boosting" the ones they have. There are other ways to gauge population other than counting servers,
Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
No dude, they don't. You're completely alone saying they do.
Am I the only one feeling that you're set to "communication out only" mode?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
heh this thread is just a great example of why no one takes internet forum boards at seriously anymore. Just a lot of dis information here put out mostly by paid shills these days. It is not just in gaming either, I have seen the same ol stuff on other boards which cater to hobbiests and feature name brand products.
Well, I played Lord of the Rings from the beginning of January for 2 months.. the community was the best i've ever seen in an MMO. Took a while getting used to after being somewhat of an elitist on EQ2 for over 4 years.
The combat was slow, but it was bearable, since the beauty of the game and community made up for it.
What ended up putting me off was a lack of flow to the world.. it looked so amazing.. but it didn't feel very immersive like Norrath did way back when. I found more immersion in the original Neverwinter Nights campaign to be honest.
Apart from that it was a great game, nothing there that wouldn't tempt me to try it again. If you're into roleplaying, and are able to get into a big enough guild to keep you occupied (which is a little difficult. I personally never saw a lot of things to do aside from following the main story or quest grinding) then you should really enjoy it.
Yep, same thing here. But I have finaly found the source of my problem. Lotro has everything, yet they somehow managed to screw up the most important feature, the thing you do all the time: Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play. Take for example Linage 2. This game is a pure grind. There are almost no quests, so you grind for months until you get to the levels to enjoy some good pvp. Yet combat hits hard and is fast. It's fun to play. In lotro after playing for 1 hour I am already bored and switch it off. When I play Lineage 2 I can play for hours to no end, and after all these years, every time I come back to it , it still keeps me playing for whole nights and I don't even realize it until the next morning. L2 has no quests and most mobs are just standing there, this is nothing compared to the lotro world... But combat is fast and makes you actually feel you are hitting something. This together with the great character progression makes the game fun to play. Then you add the great team play, the player trading and the pvp with castle owneship and you have a great game. Now take lotro.... slow boring combat... ruins everything.
"Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play."
You hit the nail on the head. The character animations are some of the worst of any mmo I have played.
I agree as well.
I have a lifetime sub to this game and can never force myself to play for more than a couple hours a month.
Combat is slow and boring. If you try to push your limits a little to increase the excitement, you find frustration, but not excitement.
On paper, it should be the perfect MMORPG for my taste. I enjoyed it for a few months intensely, until the game just wore down my enthusiasm.
The classes are mostly boring as well, but that is probably just an offshot of the problems with combat in the game.
It's extremely frustrating to have what should be an incredible title "feel" so unenjoyable.
To be honest, some of the zone design is blah as well, but overall the world is pretty well designed. I've felt for some time that it wouldn't take much tweaking to push the game in the right direction, but I have seen no positive changes in the subjective experiences that have just ruined this game for me since launch.
Moria may be better, but I can't bring myself to buy an expansion of a game I just can't force myself to play.
Maybe Turbine feels happy with the niche audience they have found and don't want to risk losing the following they have? "Boring" has been the most oft quoted reason for leaving this game I have seen. Many people have trouble putting their finger on why it's boring, just that it is boring.
Combine the common (for an MMORPG) fault of combat being nothing but repeating the same sequence of button presses until someone is dead, with the slow pace and lack luster combat animations and visuals and it's easy to see why so many find the game boring. Drawn out combat in a game can make kills more meaningful, if that combat is fun and challanging. Here, it just makes combat yawn inducing. It becomes negative reinforcement which makes playing the game eventually feel like a job rather than something you would want to do for enjoyment.
Just a question for the "slow combat" complainers. What is the difference bewtrween EQII's LoTRO's and AoC's combat? I have played all three and they seem exactly the same to me. WOW of courswe is a click as fast as you can game, but otherwise LoTRO's combat is just as fast but probably takes abit more forethough and skill than any other game I have ecver played. The only other game I oplayed where the combat was mildly inrteresting and challenging was AoC and as far as I can tell LoTRO's warden class plays exactly the same.
Just a question for the "slow combat" complainers. What is the difference bewtrween EQII's LoTRO's and AoC's combat? I have played all three and they seem exactly the same to me. WOW of courswe is a click as fast as you can game, but otherwise LoTRO's combat is just as fast but probably takes abit more forethough and skill than any other game I have ecver played. The only other game I oplayed where the combat was mildly inrteresting and challenging was AoC and as far as I can tell LoTRO's warden class plays exactly the same.
It's so simple. People have no sense of rhythm. In Lotro, you can press any skill even if the timer of the previous skill is not finished. That's only a technical difference from WOW, AOC and all the others, where the ONLY differrence is, that you can only press the skill *after* the previous skill's effect is finished.
Thus, as a result, you can press a skill, it will queue up, and kick in when the previous one finishes = effect is delayed from the button press. Some people with no or limited sense of rhythm interpret this as "slow".
It is not, it is exactly the same as in other games, where you cannot press the skill until the previous one is finished. In those games, you have to wait *exactly the same* time between 2 skills, but because of the fact that you cannot even queue the next one, it feels "faster", since once you can (finally) access that skil, it will kick in immediately when you press the button. This gives the "instant" effect, which some people (again mis-)interpret, as "fast". In fact, it is not any faster.
The only difference is in rhythm.
In WoW or AOC, you only need to mash buttons like crazy, so when it becomes available, it kicks in immediately.
In Lotro, you can actually plan ahead your next move, and queue it. It's *tactics*.
The only difference I see is mad buttons smashing versus careful planning. Except, of course when you have a respawn/pull etc near you, when LOTRo can become hectic as hell, with crazy "damage control" and survival, given the 20-30 skills I actively, structuredly use in all combat with my higher level toons It's amazing how hopeless situations can one survive with good use of skills (58 Loremaster
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
In Lotro, you can actually plan ahead your next move, and queue it. It's *tactics*. The only difference I see is mad buttons smashing versus careful planning. Except, of course when you have a respawn/pull etc near you, when LOTRo can become hectic as hell, with crazy "damage control" and survival, given the 20-30 skills I actively, structuredly use in all combat with my higher level toons It's amazing how hopeless situations can one survive with good use of skills (58 Loremaster DB
I agree right down to the point where I have to think about what type of mob it is, I have to plan which skills and the order I use them in depending on whether it is a ranged or melee mob, watch it's movement to keep it from BAF'ing, if undead certin skills work but others are useless. Both my Lore Master and my Minstrel play completely different when they are in a 6 man group and I have actually used my minnie as a tank in duos and three man groups.
Now I am leveling a Warden and still learning his play style and Gambits which can get really complex.
Quite frankly I think the ones complaining about LoTRO's combat just find it too difficult for them to master, just like the ones who complain about not being able to find a group are the ones who never get invited to group in any game.
Comments
Jackdog, I won't argue with what you said though I am not sure xFire shows much more than perhaps a trend or spike or perhaps momentum rather than real popularity, that is not a slam at LotRO more a reflection that I think xFire and things like that are not universally adopted so they skew demographically. LotRO is doing fine population wise and is healthy and stable, the grouping issues that annoy me and others in LotRO are based on the system more than available players. LotRO is a good game with nothing to apologize for either in terms of style or popularity.
That being said, the continuing 'we are the next WoW' type comments from Turbine are just stupid and pointless especially given their refusal to give the numbers to support their inferences. Furthermore, fans that echo those statements or argue that there are so many people playing so you are wrong on this critique or that commentary are also out of line and that is what I was reacting too. In my book, WoW (which I don't even like from what I know of it) is just about the only game that can point to its size/popularity as evidence that someone criticizing may be off the mark or at least out of the mainstream because it clearly has done something no game has. LotRO is a good game and certainly successful but it has not earned the right to do what many fans do which is hold up is inferred size/popularity as justification for any game element or choice someone criticizes.
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Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I'm not. but it is growing. Technicaly, your the one jumping on everyone for saying trhat it is growing. This was only an issue, becouse you made it one.
Turbine is not a public company, so they have no need to post subscriber numbers, they traditionally have never really done it with a few exceptions, they have instead continued to grow the game. Looks to be working.
No matter how many posts, he will not see this, ever
experience.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Dying? Dead? They are still around, just like LoTRO. Sorry, you're just another bender ;-/
Errkhm....Star Wars... khkhhkm.....Age of Conan....
It has been been proven not only once, the IP does not make or break an MMO. Argument flawed.
Next.
DB
Both outsold LoTRO. next.
Yep, and both are dying/dead, versus LOTRO. Besides, the point was not this, and you know it. Another bender
That was a weak one, try again.
DB
Dying? Dead? They are still around, just like LoTRO. Sorry, you're just another bender ;-/
No dude, the bending was about the point.
IP will not make an MMO successful alone, this is proven by SWG, AOC and, some argue, LOTRO as well. So, these 3 prove the same point. You are only trolling by trying to generate an argument what wasn't there.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I think the only one comparing this to WoW is you. No one said this is a WoW killer. Given that, the population IS growing. They are testing the "boosted" server this Thursday. Instead of adding more servers, they are "boosting" the ones they have. There are other ways to gauge population other than counting servers,
I don't know why you refuse to see the evidence in front of you, and fail to give ANY evidence of your own. I think they spell that T-R-O-L-L.
Mr. Smith, you're reacting to something that doesn't exist in the thread in which you're posting your reaction. You've been called out on it many times, and yet you keep repeating the same absurd allegation and trying to tapdance around the fact that your assertions of fact are not holding up. First you accuse people directly of making statements they never made, and then when you get called out on it, you say "oh, I wasn't really directing it at you even though I said 'you' countless times", and starting talking in generalities about the fanbase parroting statements you've mischaracterized from Turbine, but you fail even when asked to provide any specific incidents to support your allegations. What are you really trying to do here if not simply trolling?
I’m not sure why there is all the argument regarding how popular the game is or isn’t.
For a start, a very popular game does not mean it is good or great, WoW is the perfect example of this-is it original? No, it follows the format of many MMOs. Is it innovative? No, it has not taken any big strides forward for MMOs. Are the graphics awe inspiring? No, they were designed to be appealing and to allow a smooth running on older machines...a clever choice, but nothing more. It is a simple, fairly mindless grind to the top and then raids. It is simple and it does simple very well. WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO world. It is hugely successful but what it offers is nothing special compared to what else is around.
Is LOTRO growing? Possibly, there is no definite proof, nor is there proof to say otherwise. The fact no new servers are added proves very little-they opened with a large number of servers and it would likely take doubling the popularity to required servers, possibly even more than that due to optimisations they are doing. Most games open with a hell of a lot of spare capacity.
LOTRO may well be the 2nd biggest MMO, it may not be, but it makes no difference one way or the other-it seems to be popular and doing well. Turbine are not claiming to be the next WoW, from what I see their ambition is to be second to WoW, it’s a good ambition to have, and they believe they are-if they are indeed 2nd biggest MMO then the have achieved that.
From the quotes Smith gave, it shows the following things:
Turbine want to achieve mass market-they have been successful in EU and America and are opening up in other countries. So this means they are well on their way to achieve this, some could argue they have.
They want to reach mass market critical effect-they certainly haven’t done this, it is an ambitious goal but having reached mass market it is common sense this would be their next aim.
It is not bragging, it is ambition and goals. They know what they want and are trying to achieve it, if you believe it is some bragging BS, then I feel you are misinterpreting it.
They don’t need people to believe their claims-they are not trying to prove anything, Turbine is a business, they don’t give a damn about whether someone things they are as big as WoW, they are making money and they want to make more money and they have talked about intentions and basically how they intend to make money. They have no reason to give out numbers, if they say they are growing then they likely are-they don’t need to lie, the game is in a healthy state, the only time devs lie about growth is when a game is dead (like Vanguard) and they are trying to give their players some hope that things will get better. Whether or not you believe LOTRO is growing or not, no one disputes the game is successful and healthy, so lying is something Turbine don’t need to do.
Do you really think numbers would prove anything? If people think they are ling now when they have no reason to, why would they believe them with numbers? If they said ‘we have 1 million subscribers!’ the doubters will either say they are lying or including a bunch of people subscribing that no longer play. All numbers do is tell Turbine profits, and that is stuff only they need to know.
Besides, even if LOTRO is the 2nd most popular game, we all know it is far behind WoW, and Turbine have never suggested anything to the contrary-they know they will never get close to WoW numbers. But number 2 is quite an achievement and is a good claim to have....but number 2 could only be 400-500K people (which pre WoW would be considered a staggering success) , so being number 2 is great, but announcing that you are number 2 and 9.5 million away from the top suddenly seems a whole lot less exciting, and there is no reason for it.
Turbine are happy where they are and that clearly shows in their interviews, they are ambitious which is also clearly shown, and they have good grand goals which are very achievable (To be mass market and reach critical effect, NOT to dethrone or even get close to WoWs numbers). They believe they are growing and have no reason to lie-they have nothing to prove to anyone, their profits do the talking, and as said earlier, numbers would prove no more than them stating they are growing.
Fans believe the game is growing too, they have no proof of this and it is nothing more than a feeling they have when playing and seeing many other players around, they enjoy the game and are proud of its seemingly growing success. There is nothing wrong with that and there is no reason why claims of success or growth should bother anyone because if you don’t like the game then its success or failure means little to you anyway.
I have only just started playing LOTRO along with a few friends, we needed a new MMO and decided to try it, so far it is fun. I have no idea whether the game is hugely popular or growing, it is certainly populated which is good enough for me. I am having fun and don’t give a damn one way or another if the game is growing, as long as it is not dying I am happy. I would think most players feel the same...which is another reason why Turbine have no need to lie about growth and increasing success-most of us don’t care, as long as the game is healthy.
I agree with you, it takes a good game first. I would suggest, though, that LotRO has one hell of a lot more in common (in terms of subs and popularity) with those games then it does with WoW and that is why it is so annoying the way Turbine and fans are always holding LotRO up to be in WoW's league or otherwise suggesting that LotRO is so popular and succesful as to be beyond criticism.
Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
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No more so than you see some fans do with every game that's come out since WoW. Yeah, they can be annoying but not sure why you think it's so different with them compared to others. Every game has those...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
Did the post to which you were reacting compare the game in any way to WoW? I'll post the relevant text from it here:
"Originally posted by Jackdog
as terrrible as some want to portray the game to be it has been out for 2 years nowand has a higher population now than it did a year ago..... f 'ing amazing isn't it LOL"
Whatever you might think about the inappropriateness of the poster's dismissive tone, to imply or say that he said something he didn't is dishonest. He made no comparison to WoW, and you've still not shown any instances of anyone saying LoTRO's a WoW-killer. You directly accused individual people on here of saying it, and then tried to tapdance out of the corner into which you painted yourself when you got called on it by spouting vague, generalized allegations of "LoTRO fans saying it all the time." If they say it all the time, why are you having so much trouble showing where and when they say it?
Like I said, if you want to pull something out of there, clean it off first and make it honest before attempting to troll an entire community with dishonest ranting.
You can flame me all you want for saying that people making proclamations about population (big or small) are full of it all you want but it seems hollow when people who routinely make unsubstantiated claims don't get called for it. That comment you quote is entirely unsubstantiated and improvable and it is thrown out to be dismissive of those who had criticism of the game (the game is growing so you are obvious wrong type thing).
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That still doesn't substantiate the dishonest ranting you've been doing about WoW comparisons. If you want to say that the claims of the poster were unsubstantiated and that you found the tone to be dismissive, that would be a pretty hard statement against which to argue. However, to imply that, because someone is saying that the game has a higher population than it did a year ago, he is saying that it's a WoW-killer is dishonest. Also, to pull out the flame card when you've been dishonestly flaming an entire community is hypocritical. If you want to debate a point, that's perfectly fine - just don't pull BS out of your posterior to try to win the debate.
"Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play."
You hit the nail on the head. The character animations are some of the worst of any mmo I have played.
LOTR is meant to be casual, you play too much you will get bored plain and simple, so play RL more.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Turbine and LotRO fans say it all the time, in this thread the initial comment I reacted that started this tangent was one dismissing people with criticisms because the game is growing so much and so popular.
No dude, they don't. You're completely alone saying they do.
Am I the only one feeling that you're set to "communication out only" mode?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
it feels boring like any other mmo wich dont have any meaning ( only pve based ones ) alwys end up being same.
at starters producers should have make an option to players to chose play with sauron side nor free people.
that monster play is just not working. instead of all playing against with again AI monsters there sould been a
enemy with controlling a real player. not to forget the book quests oviously that is good to be there but what i mean
and its my opinion is that games in nowadays that have everyone against ai is not gona last long enuf, just because
theres not much excitment going on and life is meaningless all-together-against -programmed-evil based game.
cheers,
heh this thread is just a great example of why no one takes internet forum boards at seriously anymore. Just a lot of dis information here put out mostly by paid shills these days. It is not just in gaming either, I have seen the same ol stuff on other boards which cater to hobbiests and feature name brand products.
I miss DAoC
Well, I played Lord of the Rings from the beginning of January for 2 months.. the community was the best i've ever seen in an MMO. Took a while getting used to after being somewhat of an elitist on EQ2 for over 4 years.
The combat was slow, but it was bearable, since the beauty of the game and community made up for it.
What ended up putting me off was a lack of flow to the world.. it looked so amazing.. but it didn't feel very immersive like Norrath did way back when. I found more immersion in the original Neverwinter Nights campaign to be honest.
Apart from that it was a great game, nothing there that wouldn't tempt me to try it again. If you're into roleplaying, and are able to get into a big enough guild to keep you occupied (which is a little difficult. I personally never saw a lot of things to do aside from following the main story or quest grinding) then you should really enjoy it.
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"Combat, it's extremely slow and boring. Combat is not fun, so it makes the game boring to play."
You hit the nail on the head. The character animations are some of the worst of any mmo I have played.
I agree as well.
I have a lifetime sub to this game and can never force myself to play for more than a couple hours a month.
Combat is slow and boring. If you try to push your limits a little to increase the excitement, you find frustration, but not excitement.
On paper, it should be the perfect MMORPG for my taste. I enjoyed it for a few months intensely, until the game just wore down my enthusiasm.
The classes are mostly boring as well, but that is probably just an offshot of the problems with combat in the game.
It's extremely frustrating to have what should be an incredible title "feel" so unenjoyable.
To be honest, some of the zone design is blah as well, but overall the world is pretty well designed. I've felt for some time that it wouldn't take much tweaking to push the game in the right direction, but I have seen no positive changes in the subjective experiences that have just ruined this game for me since launch.
Moria may be better, but I can't bring myself to buy an expansion of a game I just can't force myself to play.
Maybe Turbine feels happy with the niche audience they have found and don't want to risk losing the following they have? "Boring" has been the most oft quoted reason for leaving this game I have seen. Many people have trouble putting their finger on why it's boring, just that it is boring.
Combine the common (for an MMORPG) fault of combat being nothing but repeating the same sequence of button presses until someone is dead, with the slow pace and lack luster combat animations and visuals and it's easy to see why so many find the game boring. Drawn out combat in a game can make kills more meaningful, if that combat is fun and challanging. Here, it just makes combat yawn inducing. It becomes negative reinforcement which makes playing the game eventually feel like a job rather than something you would want to do for enjoyment.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Just a question for the "slow combat" complainers. What is the difference bewtrween EQII's LoTRO's and AoC's combat? I have played all three and they seem exactly the same to me. WOW of courswe is a click as fast as you can game, but otherwise LoTRO's combat is just as fast but probably takes abit more forethough and skill than any other game I have ecver played. The only other game I oplayed where the combat was mildly inrteresting and challenging was AoC and as far as I can tell LoTRO's warden class plays exactly the same.
I miss DAoC
It's so simple. People have no sense of rhythm. In Lotro, you can press any skill even if the timer of the previous skill is not finished. That's only a technical difference from WOW, AOC and all the others, where the ONLY differrence is, that you can only press the skill *after* the previous skill's effect is finished.
Thus, as a result, you can press a skill, it will queue up, and kick in when the previous one finishes = effect is delayed from the button press. Some people with no or limited sense of rhythm interpret this as "slow".
It is not, it is exactly the same as in other games, where you cannot press the skill until the previous one is finished. In those games, you have to wait *exactly the same* time between 2 skills, but because of the fact that you cannot even queue the next one, it feels "faster", since once you can (finally) access that skil, it will kick in immediately when you press the button. This gives the "instant" effect, which some people (again mis-)interpret, as "fast". In fact, it is not any faster.
The only difference is in rhythm.
In WoW or AOC, you only need to mash buttons like crazy, so when it becomes available, it kicks in immediately.
In Lotro, you can actually plan ahead your next move, and queue it. It's *tactics*.
The only difference I see is mad buttons smashing versus careful planning. Except, of course when you have a respawn/pull etc near you, when LOTRo can become hectic as hell, with crazy "damage control" and survival, given the 20-30 skills I actively, structuredly use in all combat with my higher level toons
It's amazing how hopeless situations can one survive with good use of skills (58 Loremaster 
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I agree right down to the point where I have to think about what type of mob it is, I have to plan which skills and the order I use them in depending on whether it is a ranged or melee mob, watch it's movement to keep it from BAF'ing, if undead certin skills work but others are useless. Both my Lore Master and my Minstrel play completely different when they are in a 6 man group and I have actually used my minnie as a tank in duos and three man groups.
Now I am leveling a Warden and still learning his play style and Gambits which can get really complex.
Quite frankly I think the ones complaining about LoTRO's combat just find it too difficult for them to master, just like the ones who complain about not being able to find a group are the ones who never get invited to group in any game.
I miss DAoC