Lets just state the real issue here. Someone is upset (the threads on the forums) that Turbine is not directly, and personally responding to someones pet issue. That about summs it up.
You summed that up really poorly. I suggest you read the DDO forums and get a better idea of what is going on.
Don't need to. What i described is rather accurate.
"OMG i posted about waffles and they didn't respond!" or "OMG my idea was so great, how could they not respond" or my favorite "OMG turbine I'im telling you your game is broken, this is how to fix it, why don't you respond!".
Let me list sone of the current topics:
Don't release Module 9!
Where is MOD 10?
I want a new server!!
Mod 9's complete-we all know it. Couple of suggestions to Eladrin/Paiz's.
Change the Splash Screen
Chuck Norris Can save DDO:
Drastic Times Call for Drastic Measures
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I hadn't been in a while, so I browsed over to DDO's forums and was shocked. There were 13 out of 25 threads on the first page that were slamming Turbine for not communicating (at all) with their player base. Many of these threads were very active and not just the work of one or two people. They truly have lost control of this game. I have to admit, that's shocking. Even on it's worst day before there would maybe be two or three threads. Now, they have a serious PR nightmare. Here's hoping they just fold it up altogether, it needs to die already. I moved on in Jan 2008 after Mod 6 failed to capture my attention. I also realized it would be a LONG time before new content hit. My guild and even the forums told me I was crazy but from the release of MOD6 to MOD8 (the next batch of quests) was nearly TEN months. Their development cycle just cannot possibly retain customers. It's one thing to enjoy running the same quests over and over, but to not even have the OPTION of doing something new, that's just sad.
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
I hadn't been in a while, so I browsed over to DDO's forums and was shocked. There were 13 out of 25 threads on the first page that were slamming Turbine for not communicating (at all) with their player base. Many of these threads were very active and not just the work of one or two people. They truly have lost control of this game. I have to admit, that's shocking. Even on it's worst day before there would maybe be two or three threads. Now, they have a serious PR nightmare. Here's hoping they just fold it up altogether, it needs to die already. I moved on in Jan 2008 after Mod 6 failed to capture my attention. I also realized it would be a LONG time before new content hit. My guild and even the forums told me I was crazy but from the release of MOD6 to MOD8 (the next batch of quests) was nearly TEN months. Their development cycle just cannot possibly retain customers. It's one thing to enjoy running the same quests over and over, but to not even have the OPTION of doing something new, that's just sad.
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
What? No.
If anyone gets banned, its because they cant talk like human beings.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Lets just state the real issue here. Someone is upset (the threads on the forums) that Turbine is not directly, and personally responding to someones pet issue. That about summs it up.
You summed that up really poorly. I suggest you read the DDO forums and get a better idea of what is going on.
Don't need to. What i described is rather accurate.
"OMG i posted about waffles and they didn't respond!" or "OMG my idea was so great, how could they not respond" or my favorite "OMG turbine I'im telling you your game is broken, this is how to fix it, why don't you respond!".
Let me list sone of the current topics:
Don't release Module 9!
Where is MOD 10?
I want a new server!!
Mod 9's complete-we all know it. Couple of suggestions to Eladrin/Paiz's.
Change the Splash Screen
Chuck Norris Can save DDO:
Drastic Times Call for Drastic Measures
And your point? Its 4 months past due on the Mod. The forums are a reflection of Turbines internal issues.
I hadn't been in a while, so I browsed over to DDO's forums and was shocked. There were 13 out of 25 threads on the first page that were slamming Turbine for not communicating (at all) with their player base. Many of these threads were very active and not just the work of one or two people. They truly have lost control of this game. I have to admit, that's shocking. Even on it's worst day before there would maybe be two or three threads. Now, they have a serious PR nightmare. Here's hoping they just fold it up altogether, it needs to die already. I moved on in Jan 2008 after Mod 6 failed to capture my attention. I also realized it would be a LONG time before new content hit. My guild and even the forums told me I was crazy but from the release of MOD6 to MOD8 (the next batch of quests) was nearly TEN months. Their development cycle just cannot possibly retain customers. It's one thing to enjoy running the same quests over and over, but to not even have the OPTION of doing something new, that's just sad.
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
What? No.
If anyone gets banned, its because they cant talk like human beings.
Thats not entirely true. People have been banned for talking like humans but not agreeing with certain pet forum posters. The DDO forums were banning people from a certain guild at one time with no explanation given.
No... you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I'd love to post the email I had from the Director of Community Relations regarding a forum ban that I received. In it, Meghan Rodberg "Patience" admits that Quarion aka Kommunity Kobold, went over the line and banned many people harshly on a tirade of his. She reversed the ban, reversed the infraction points and said "sorry it won't happen again I assure you". Quarion never returned from that. She THANKED me for providing useful feedback regarding their ban process and in the end was grateful that a rational and intelligent discussion could be engaged in regarding a heated issue.
So take your generalizations and go fly a kite with them.
The issue stemmed from a list of Forum Do's and Dont's which were AMENDED to the original forum Code of Conduct. Quarion wrote additional things that he did not want to see on the forums, which was fair.
What was NOT fair is Quarion going back several WEEKS in time and issuing infractions/bans for offenses that occured PRIOR to the "additional" rules being posted. Keep in mind the Code of Conduct are general rules, whereas he posted specific ones. This was clearly an overbroad application of the rules. The director of community relations agreed. So... that puts you (and your opinions) on the end of.... WRONG.
This was just my experience. There are dozens of people that will post their ridiculous forum ban experience on here if you REALLY think that the ONLY reason people get banned is because they can't talk like human beings.
It really is the players. It's their feeling that they personally are owed a response to whatever issue they feel is important, no matter how trivial that matter actually is.
At some point in America (and I choose America because I really think that is where most of the complainers are from, and yes I live here too) it got in people's heads that if they pay for something they are now the most important person in the world to that business. It is simply not the case, you paid for a product and you got the product. You're not actually owed any communication at all.
But the fact does remain that if you take all of Turbine's games, and look at the amount of communication since the beginning, they communicate a ton with the player base. The problem comes when they are constantly responding to each little complaint thread (which is what all the people who want responses threads are, complaints) about completly tiny and useless issues. And then they take a break from that to focus on bigger things and all the people who want to be important by having their greatest post ever acknowledged, whine that there isn't enough communication with the players.
It is something that no other genre suffers from, but in MMOs every forum poster is the next great designer and he should be personally responded to by the devs because his ideas are the bestest ever. Just gets old after a while, and it's not just Turbine forums it's all MMO forums. They're all fulled with whiners and people who think they can do a better job but surprisingly can't get hired for one of those jobs.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Most threads are a jerk chain, one person posts something and it gets twisted back to a complaint topic then the same complaints are spurted out and they feed off each other, slapping each other on the back on how insulting they can be about devs and Turbine until the thread is derailed and the genuine posters stop posting. Only time you see the mainly silent is when someone asks for a bit of help, and the trolls are not interested in those threads.
Yes they often claim they could do better if only Turbine listened to them or read their particulat idea in suggestions, it is depressingly sad.
But what the heck as I said the in game community is great, and that is what matters.
Sarr puts up a good fight, but personally I can rarely be bothered. I actually post here more often because I know there must be people like me who just don't like mass produced MMOs, and DDO is different even if it doesn't have mass appeal it might just be what they are looking for.
No... you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I'd love to post the email I had from the Director of Community Relations regarding a forum ban that I received. In it, Meghan Rodberg "Patience" admits that Quarion aka Kommunity Kobold, went over the line and banned many people harshly on a tirade of his. She reversed the ban, reversed the infraction points and said "sorry it won't happen again I assure you". Quarion never returned from that. She THANKED me for providing useful feedback regarding their ban process and in the end was grateful that a rational and intelligent discussion could be engaged in regarding a heated issue. So take your generalizations and go fly a kite with them. The issue stemmed from a list of Forum Do's and Dont's which were AMENDED to the original forum Code of Conduct. Quarion wrote additional things that he did not want to see on the forums, which was fair. What was NOT fair is Quarion going back several WEEKS in time and issuing infractions/bans for offenses that occured PRIOR to the "additional" rules being posted. Keep in mind the Code of Conduct are general rules, whereas he posted specific ones. This was clearly an overbroad application of the rules. The director of community relations agreed. So... that puts you (and your opinions) on the end of.... WRONG. This was just my experience. There are dozens of people that will post their ridiculous forum ban experience on here if you REALLY think that the ONLY reason people get banned is because they can't talk like human beings.
Your experiences seems to be an exception to that rule. But, it was also solved, and cleared up, and she directly communicated with you.
Whats the problem again?
You do realize that people run forums, and games, and people do screw up. So, really your generalization is more incorrect than mine was. As 9 times out of 10, if not more, what i said was correct.
You said:
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
This doesn't seem to line up with your story here.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
It really is the players. It's their feeling that they personally are owed a response to whatever issue they feel is important, no matter how trivial that matter actually is.
At some point in America (and I choose America because I really think that is where most of the complainers are from, and yes I live here too) it got in people's heads that if they pay for something they are now the most important person in the world to that business. It is simply not the case, you paid for a product and you got the product. You're not actually owed any communication at all.
But the fact does remain that if you take all of Turbine's games, and look at the amount of communication since the beginning, they communicate a ton with the player base. The problem comes when they are constantly responding to each little complaint thread (which is what all the people who want responses threads are, complaints) about completly tiny and useless issues. And then they take a break from that to focus on bigger things and all the people who want to be important by having their greatest post ever acknowledged, whine that there isn't enough communication with the players.
It is something that no other genre suffers from, but in MMOs every forum poster is the next great designer and he should be personally responded to by the devs because his ideas are the bestest ever. Just gets old after a while, and it's not just Turbine forums it's all MMO forums. They're all fulled with whiners and people who think they can do a better job but surprisingly can't get hired for one of those jobs.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Very few people who post on a game's forums are those who enjoy it. The reason for this is all the people who are enjoying the game are playing it instead of posting.
Less then 5% of any MMO's players post on the forums, game forums are made of the minority in the game and are usually also made up of those that are unhappy for whatever reason they have. If you think that forums contain a large amount of the player base, or an even cross section then you are kidding yourself.
It really is the players. It's their feeling that they personally are owed a response to whatever issue they feel is important, no matter how trivial that matter actually is.
At some point in America (and I choose America because I really think that is where most of the complainers are from, and yes I live here too) it got in people's heads that if they pay for something they are now the most important person in the world to that business. It is simply not the case, you paid for a product and you got the product. You're not actually owed any communication at all.
But the fact does remain that if you take all of Turbine's games, and look at the amount of communication since the beginning, they communicate a ton with the player base. The problem comes when they are constantly responding to each little complaint thread (which is what all the people who want responses threads are, complaints) about completly tiny and useless issues. And then they take a break from that to focus on bigger things and all the people who want to be important by having their greatest post ever acknowledged, whine that there isn't enough communication with the players.
It is something that no other genre suffers from, but in MMOs every forum poster is the next great designer and he should be personally responded to by the devs because his ideas are the bestest ever. Just gets old after a while, and it's not just Turbine forums it's all MMO forums. They're all fulled with whiners and people who think they can do a better job but surprisingly can't get hired for one of those jobs.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Very few people who post on a game's forums are those who enjoy it. The reason for this is all the people who are enjoying the game are playing it instead of posting.
Less then 5% of any MMO's players post on the forums, game forums are made of the minority in the game and are usually also made up of those that are unhappy for whatever reason they have. If you think that forums contain a large amount of the player base, or an even cross section then you are kidding yourself.
DDO restricts its forum participation to current subscribers so if you think most on the DDO forums are epople who do not like the game you are wrong. Take a look at the dates on peoples forum accounts and see that DDO most has longer time players posting and until recently the general forum population was happy. Of course the unhappy people talk more so they seem to be a majority but until recently that was not true of the DDO official forums.
The forums are where the Turbine team hear the most from their players so if you fail to make your voice heard because you do not join the forum community you have no one else to blame. It is the cross section of the community because it is where the dev teams hears from its player base regardless of the size of the forum user base.
Edit: The line that the happy ones are all playing is a line of crap and always has been. Forums attract happy and unhappy players. Fanboys just want it to sound like the happy ones are a huge majority and they never post. Obviously DDO had so many happy ones that no one knew of Turbine merged servers because they were so quiet.
Lol I know how forums work, and what they're used for and that you have to be subscribed to post on them.
Still less then 5% of the player base ever goes to the forums, and the majority of the ones who do are the ones who are unhappy.
Go to the DDO forums and see all th build idea and all the suggestions and all the other stuff, sorry you are wrong the happy players post just as much. In DDOs case you must be a paying member so claiming the majority are unhappy just says DDO is a bad game. Was that your intent?
Originally posted by Rokurgepta DDO restricts its forum participation to current subscribers so if you think most on the DDO forums are epople who do not like the game you are wrong. Take a look at the dates on peoples forum accounts and see that DDO most has longer time players posting and until recently the general forum population was happy. Of course the unhappy people talk more so they seem to be a majority but until recently that was not true of the DDO official forums. Just to point out DDO EU does not restrict participation to current subscribers, which does mean you do get disgruntled players that would normally move on still posting, but it isn't a major problem. The forums are where the Turbine team hear the most from their players so if you fail to make your voice heard because you do not join the forum community you have no one else to blame. It is the cross section of the community because it is where the dev teams hears from its player base regardless of the size of the forum user base. Now there is an element of truth in that if you don't give feeback then there is no chance of change, the belief that you are not stating what is already known (by the devs and others) from a limited and self-obsessed viewpoint is where people fall down. The classic is content, do you really think Turbine wouldn't produce more content if they could and that they are deliberately not doing it, or that just maybe they are producing the content they can afford on the limited DDO income. Assuming everyone in Turbine is just stupid is just a reflection of the thinker's intelligence, rather than Turbine's. Finally it is a small percentage of the community on a forum, and that sub-community is probably biased to certain player types, normally the long term and non-casual (from my experience). The accuracy with which their views match the community as a whole is open to debate, although people generally can't think beyong themself and so assume others must think the same. That self serving bias has to be weighted against other forms of feedback and in game stats. Edit: The line that the happy ones are all playing is a line of crap and always has been. Forums attract happy and unhappy players. Fanboys just want it to sound like the happy ones are a huge majority and they never post. Obviously DDO had so many happy ones that no one knew of Turbine merged servers because they were so quiet. I would agree that people are not posting because they are playing is inaccurate. However it is true to say that forums posters are often the ones with the strongest opinions, the generally more vocal and I would even say in a lot of cases the emptiest vessels. This does result in a lot of people with potentially more interesting input being put off and not participating.
You are obviously disgruntled with the lack of new content and the timescales on new releases. Allowing for the natural need to vent, do you honestly deep down think that repeating your dissatisfaction is going to change anything. Even thinking if everyone vents that it will change anything is naive, sometimes there are immutable factors. In this case the size of DDO and its growing age, even increasing the output by tenfold will not change these.
I do sympathise with your position, but my advice would be to change what you can change and not waste your time on what you can't. In this case you will not change DDO and so you will have to find something you do enjoy.
Edit: The only way to achieve your goals is for the DDO income to increase, which means attracting new players. You are not doing that and so perversely in a small way you are actually your own worse enemy.
No - sorry but your premise is flawed. The lack of traction with the game is not because of customers who express their discontent with the game, but rather on the inactions of others (like yourself).
Turbine is allowed to pass off a mediocre product because there are just enough cheerleaders telling Turbine that everything is A-OK hunky dory. Rather than take your own advice and agree that many people who play the game are not represented on the forums, you choose to advance the notion that your viewpoint is superior and the opposite viewpoint inferior. Why not meet in the middle and agree that there are probably many things that warrant the kind of outrage Turbine is seeing? At least then Turbine would hear it from it all sides. I guarantee you two things will happen:
A) Turbine will respond to the overwhelming customer demand
The complainers, as you like to call them, will shut up
The "whiners" have already left the game (by my estimate they left years ago) and the ones remaining are not whining because they hate the game no matter what. They are saying "hey Turbine, give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay!"
It is sad that Turbine does not see this. They listen to people like you who truly believe that if Turbine were to make any kind of concession they would face an army of complainers about something else. Nothing could be further from the truth. You really have a warped view of the world to think that it is better to continue doing nothing than to stand your ground and not accept low standards.
It is people like you who have done the most damage. No one puts a lot of weight on the bickering they see on game forums. You, however, seem to focus on the drama entirely too much. It is quite simple really: Turbine - you took my money, now aggregate it with the thousands of others you took it from and produce something.
No - sorry but your premise is flawed. The lack of traction with the game is not because of customers who express their discontent with the game, but rather on the inactions of others (like yourself).
Change is possible with focused effort, it isn't done by people like you though!
Lol I know how forums work, and what they're used for and that you have to be subscribed to post on them.
Still less then 5% of the player base ever goes to the forums, and the majority of the ones who do are the ones who are unhappy.
Go to the DDO forums and see all th build idea and all the suggestions and all the other stuff, sorry you are wrong the happy players post just as much. In DDOs case you must be a paying member so claiming the majority are unhappy just says DDO is a bad game. Was that your intent?
No my intent is for you to read, which you obvisouly can not do. For the third time the precentage of an MMOs players that post on it's forums is tiny, less then 5% of the people and I'm sure in many games less then 1%. So by me saying that the majority of the posters are the ones unhappy with the game and from me also saying that very few players from an MMO post on forums does not equal everyone who plays is unhappy with the game.
But then again maybe you have no math skills so you couldn't figure that out.
A) Turbine will respond to the overwhelming customer demand The complainers, as you like to call them, will shut up
The "whiners" have already left the game (by my estimate they left years ago) and the ones remaining are not whining because they hate the game no matter what. They are saying "hey Turbine, give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay!"
It is sad that Turbine does not see this. They listen to people like you who truly believe that if Turbine were to make any kind of concession they would face an army of complainers about something else. Nothing could be further from the truth. You really have a warped view of the world to think that it is better to continue doing nothing than to stand your ground and not accept low standards. It is people like you who have done the most damage. No one puts a lot of weight on the bickering they see on game forums. You, however, seem to focus on the drama entirely too much. It is quite simple really: Turbine - you took my money, now aggregate it with the thousands of others you took it from and produce something.
You should look at their foums on AC, since that game has been around even longer then DDO. Most players go on there to bitch about things they'd like easier, Turbine will change some of the things they want changed. Do the players stop complaining then because their complaints were fixed? No they immediately pick something new and start complaining, every time.
They also will post a question/complaint that has been answered 3-4 previous times, and they get mad when Turbine doesn't respond. Other players will give them links to the other threads the question was answered and they will respond, well I want the devs to respond to this one so stfu.
And your saying "give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay", they already gave you the game. They in fact don't ever have to add more content at all, it's not required. Your money goes to having the servers stay up and your information saved, it has nothing to do with adding content, it is not something they owe you. But regardless they will continue to add content when they get the chance to, they always have and let's be fair they add more content then any other game company. AC has monthly content updates. DDO and LotRO both have free books/modules added on a fairly regular basis. Most other companies only make an expansion every year or two and then charge you another 50 bucks.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
A) Turbine will respond to the overwhelming customer demand The complainers, as you like to call them, will shut up
The "whiners" have already left the game (by my estimate they left years ago) and the ones remaining are not whining because they hate the game no matter what. They are saying "hey Turbine, give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay!"
It is sad that Turbine does not see this. They listen to people like you who truly believe that if Turbine were to make any kind of concession they would face an army of complainers about something else. Nothing could be further from the truth. You really have a warped view of the world to think that it is better to continue doing nothing than to stand your ground and not accept low standards. It is people like you who have done the most damage. No one puts a lot of weight on the bickering they see on game forums. You, however, seem to focus on the drama entirely too much. It is quite simple really: Turbine - you took my money, now aggregate it with the thousands of others you took it from and produce something.
You should look at their foums on AC, since that game has been around even longer then DDO. Most players go on there to bitch about things they'd like easier, Turbine will change some of the things they want changed. Do the players stop complaining then because their complaints were fixed? No they immediately pick something new and start complaining, every time.
They also will post a question/complaint that has been answered 3-4 previous times, and they get mad when Turbine doesn't respond. Other players will give them links to the other threads the question was answered and they will respond, well I want the devs to respond to this one so stfu.
And your saying "give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay", they already gave you the game. They in fact don't ever have to add more content at all, it's not required. Your money goes to having the servers stay up and your information saved, it has nothing to do with adding content, it is not something they owe you. But regardless they will continue to add content when they get the chance to, they always have and let's be fair they add more content then any other game company. AC has monthly content updates. DDO and LotRO both have free books/modules added on a fairly regular basis. Most other companies only make an expansion every year or two and then charge you another 50 bucks.
The fact is if a game like DDO never gave free updates as part of your $15 a month it would not have seen year three. Sorry but the content added to DDO has been quite little over the last year and a half. The more you post the more fanboy you have become here.
Most other games that are in any way a success are not as small or limited as DDO. If you can not understand that then further discussion between us will be worthless.
Can you imagine going into a restaurant where you had to pay in advance for your meal, but after waiting 45 minutes the waiter comes back and tells you they are under no obligation to actually bring you any food? Then she tells you that your money which you paid in advance was simply access to the table, the chairs and the restrooms.
You're damned right I'm gonna "whine and complain" I might even fight a waiter or two on the way out. Then, on my way out, I see a guy like you sitting in the corner with a big wide grin, your napkin tucked into your collar waiting for something that never comes. And you think I'm the simple one...
Wow he actually went there. Can you imagine going into a restaurant where you had to pay in advance for your meal, but after waiting 45 minutes the waiter comes back and tells you they are under no obligation to actually bring you any food? Then she tells you that your money which you paid in advance was simply access to the table, the chairs and the restrooms. You're damned right I'm gonna "whine and complain" I might even fight a waiter or two on the way out. Then, on my way out, I see a guy like you sitting in the corner with a big wide grin, your napkin tucked into your collar waiting for something that never comes. And you think I'm the simple one... WTF are you smoking moron?
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Wow he actually went there. Can you imagine going into a restaurant where you had to pay in advance for your meal, but after waiting 45 minutes the waiter comes back and tells you they are under no obligation to actually bring you any food? Then she tells you that your money which you paid in advance was simply access to the table, the chairs and the restrooms. You're damned right I'm gonna "whine and complain" I might even fight a waiter or two on the way out. Then, on my way out, I see a guy like you sitting in the corner with a big wide grin, your napkin tucked into your collar waiting for something that never comes. And you think I'm the simple one... WTF are you smoking moron?
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Not only are you being obtuse in your points about my "analogy", but you are joining in the same ridiculous argument that he did. You cannot possibly expect me to believe that MMO's are not supposed to get active development, regular content, and open and direct communication about where the game is going.
If you feel otherwise, you sir, are in the minority and couldn't be more wrong in your assessment of what the relationship is between the MMO company and its playerbase. Stay obtuse for all I care, your opinion means nothing at all when it doesn't meet even the most basic criteria to be taken seriously.
Show me an MMO without regular content updates and I'll show you a waste of your money, no matter what the "base" game is like. In fact, if you actually pay for an MMO based on it's "base" content, you are even more dense than I imagined. They have games with good "base" content. That's why you don't pay $14.95 per month to play Neverwinter Nights, or Dawn of War, or hell even Starcraft/Warcraft is free once you buy the base game. I don't pay monthly to play GTA IV, or any other game with online-multiplayer features. Well I hope this has revealed your ignorance. It's not too late to change.
Wow he actually went there. Can you imagine going into a restaurant where you had to pay in advance for your meal, but after waiting 45 minutes the waiter comes back and tells you they are under no obligation to actually bring you any food? Then she tells you that your money which you paid in advance was simply access to the table, the chairs and the restrooms. You're damned right I'm gonna "whine and complain" I might even fight a waiter or two on the way out. Then, on my way out, I see a guy like you sitting in the corner with a big wide grin, your napkin tucked into your collar waiting for something that never comes. And you think I'm the simple one... WTF are you smoking moron?
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Sorry but you are wrong. DDO needs continued developement and content to survive. It is quite clear by the current population that DDO is far from thriving, it is a niche game that needs to retain all the customers it can. You are absolutely paying for continued developement, people who fail to see this are the reason some games think it is ok to do nothing and expect an MMO to be a hit.
Comments
You summed that up really poorly. I suggest you read the DDO forums and get a better idea of what is going on.
Don't need to. What i described is rather accurate.
"OMG i posted about waffles and they didn't respond!" or "OMG my idea was so great, how could they not respond" or my favorite "OMG turbine I'im telling you your game is broken, this is how to fix it, why don't you respond!".
Let me list sone of the current topics:
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
What? No.
If anyone gets banned, its because they cant talk like human beings.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
You summed that up really poorly. I suggest you read the DDO forums and get a better idea of what is going on.
Don't need to. What i described is rather accurate.
"OMG i posted about waffles and they didn't respond!" or "OMG my idea was so great, how could they not respond" or my favorite "OMG turbine I'im telling you your game is broken, this is how to fix it, why don't you respond!".
Let me list sone of the current topics:
And your point? Its 4 months past due on the Mod. The forums are a reflection of Turbines internal issues.
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
What? No.
If anyone gets banned, its because they cant talk like human beings.
Thats not entirely true. People have been banned for talking like humans but not agreeing with certain pet forum posters. The DDO forums were banning people from a certain guild at one time with no explanation given.
No... you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I'd love to post the email I had from the Director of Community Relations regarding a forum ban that I received. In it, Meghan Rodberg "Patience" admits that Quarion aka Kommunity Kobold, went over the line and banned many people harshly on a tirade of his. She reversed the ban, reversed the infraction points and said "sorry it won't happen again I assure you". Quarion never returned from that. She THANKED me for providing useful feedback regarding their ban process and in the end was grateful that a rational and intelligent discussion could be engaged in regarding a heated issue.
So take your generalizations and go fly a kite with them.
The issue stemmed from a list of Forum Do's and Dont's which were AMENDED to the original forum Code of Conduct. Quarion wrote additional things that he did not want to see on the forums, which was fair.
What was NOT fair is Quarion going back several WEEKS in time and issuing infractions/bans for offenses that occured PRIOR to the "additional" rules being posted. Keep in mind the Code of Conduct are general rules, whereas he posted specific ones. This was clearly an overbroad application of the rules. The director of community relations agreed. So... that puts you (and your opinions) on the end of.... WRONG.
This was just my experience. There are dozens of people that will post their ridiculous forum ban experience on here if you REALLY think that the ONLY reason people get banned is because they can't talk like human beings.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Most threads are a jerk chain, one person posts something and it gets twisted back to a complaint topic then the same complaints are spurted out and they feed off each other, slapping each other on the back on how insulting they can be about devs and Turbine until the thread is derailed and the genuine posters stop posting. Only time you see the mainly silent is when someone asks for a bit of help, and the trolls are not interested in those threads.
Yes they often claim they could do better if only Turbine listened to them or read their particulat idea in suggestions, it is depressingly sad.
But what the heck as I said the in game community is great, and that is what matters.
Sarr puts up a good fight, but personally I can rarely be bothered. I actually post here more often because I know there must be people like me who just don't like mass produced MMOs, and DDO is different even if it doesn't have mass appeal it might just be what they are looking for.
Your experiences seems to be an exception to that rule. But, it was also solved, and cleared up, and she directly communicated with you.
Whats the problem again?
You do realize that people run forums, and games, and people do screw up. So, really your generalization is more incorrect than mine was. As 9 times out of 10, if not more, what i said was correct.
You said:
Same thing is happening over at LOTRO people are up in arms over the announcement of gear requiremnts for future Raids Sapiance just bans anyone who complains.
This doesn't seem to line up with your story here.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
First you make overbroad generalizations. Then you quote someone else in the thread and attribute it to me.
That wasn't me dude. You are clearly lost in your own folly.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Very few people who post on a game's forums are those who enjoy it. The reason for this is all the people who are enjoying the game are playing it instead of posting.
Less then 5% of any MMO's players post on the forums, game forums are made of the minority in the game and are usually also made up of those that are unhappy for whatever reason they have. If you think that forums contain a large amount of the player base, or an even cross section then you are kidding yourself.
Agree, only small correction I would make is the only difference is in the EU the whiners have the forum more or less to themselves, and apart from the odd exception nobody else bothers to post anymore.
In game the community is cracking though, so very understandable why they don't bother.
SO you are telling me no one who likes DDO on the EU servers goes to the forums and posts at all?
Very few people who post on a game's forums are those who enjoy it. The reason for this is all the people who are enjoying the game are playing it instead of posting.
Less then 5% of any MMO's players post on the forums, game forums are made of the minority in the game and are usually also made up of those that are unhappy for whatever reason they have. If you think that forums contain a large amount of the player base, or an even cross section then you are kidding yourself.
DDO restricts its forum participation to current subscribers so if you think most on the DDO forums are epople who do not like the game you are wrong. Take a look at the dates on peoples forum accounts and see that DDO most has longer time players posting and until recently the general forum population was happy. Of course the unhappy people talk more so they seem to be a majority but until recently that was not true of the DDO official forums.
The forums are where the Turbine team hear the most from their players so if you fail to make your voice heard because you do not join the forum community you have no one else to blame. It is the cross section of the community because it is where the dev teams hears from its player base regardless of the size of the forum user base.
Edit: The line that the happy ones are all playing is a line of crap and always has been. Forums attract happy and unhappy players. Fanboys just want it to sound like the happy ones are a huge majority and they never post. Obviously DDO had so many happy ones that no one knew of Turbine merged servers because they were so quiet.
Lol I know how forums work, and what they're used for and that you have to be subscribed to post on them.
Still less then 5% of the player base ever goes to the forums, and the majority of the ones who do are the ones who are unhappy.
Go to the DDO forums and see all th build idea and all the suggestions and all the other stuff, sorry you are wrong the happy players post just as much. In DDOs case you must be a paying member so claiming the majority are unhappy just says DDO is a bad game. Was that your intent?
You are obviously disgruntled with the lack of new content and the timescales on new releases. Allowing for the natural need to vent, do you honestly deep down think that repeating your dissatisfaction is going to change anything. Even thinking if everyone vents that it will change anything is naive, sometimes there are immutable factors. In this case the size of DDO and its growing age, even increasing the output by tenfold will not change these.
I do sympathise with your position, but my advice would be to change what you can change and not waste your time on what you can't. In this case you will not change DDO and so you will have to find something you do enjoy.
Edit: The only way to achieve your goals is for the DDO income to increase, which means attracting new players. You are not doing that and so perversely in a small way you are actually your own worse enemy.
No - sorry but your premise is flawed. The lack of traction with the game is not because of customers who express their discontent with the game, but rather on the inactions of others (like yourself).
Turbine is allowed to pass off a mediocre product because there are just enough cheerleaders telling Turbine that everything is A-OK hunky dory. Rather than take your own advice and agree that many people who play the game are not represented on the forums, you choose to advance the notion that your viewpoint is superior and the opposite viewpoint inferior. Why not meet in the middle and agree that there are probably many things that warrant the kind of outrage Turbine is seeing? At least then Turbine would hear it from it all sides. I guarantee you two things will happen:
A) Turbine will respond to the overwhelming customer demand
The "whiners" have already left the game (by my estimate they left years ago) and the ones remaining are not whining because they hate the game no matter what. They are saying "hey Turbine, give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay!"
It is sad that Turbine does not see this. They listen to people like you who truly believe that if Turbine were to make any kind of concession they would face an army of complainers about something else. Nothing could be further from the truth. You really have a warped view of the world to think that it is better to continue doing nothing than to stand your ground and not accept low standards.
It is people like you who have done the most damage. No one puts a lot of weight on the bickering they see on game forums. You, however, seem to focus on the drama entirely too much. It is quite simple really: Turbine - you took my money, now aggregate it with the thousands of others you took it from and produce something.
Change is possible with focused effort, it isn't done by people like you though!
Go to the DDO forums and see all th build idea and all the suggestions and all the other stuff, sorry you are wrong the happy players post just as much. In DDOs case you must be a paying member so claiming the majority are unhappy just says DDO is a bad game. Was that your intent?
No my intent is for you to read, which you obvisouly can not do. For the third time the precentage of an MMOs players that post on it's forums is tiny, less then 5% of the people and I'm sure in many games less then 1%. So by me saying that the majority of the posters are the ones unhappy with the game and from me also saying that very few players from an MMO post on forums does not equal everyone who plays is unhappy with the game.
But then again maybe you have no math skills so you couldn't figure that out.
You should look at their foums on AC, since that game has been around even longer then DDO. Most players go on there to bitch about things they'd like easier, Turbine will change some of the things they want changed. Do the players stop complaining then because their complaints were fixed? No they immediately pick something new and start complaining, every time.
They also will post a question/complaint that has been answered 3-4 previous times, and they get mad when Turbine doesn't respond. Other players will give them links to the other threads the question was answered and they will respond, well I want the devs to respond to this one so stfu.
And your saying "give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay", they already gave you the game. They in fact don't ever have to add more content at all, it's not required. Your money goes to having the servers stay up and your information saved, it has nothing to do with adding content, it is not something they owe you. But regardless they will continue to add content when they get the chance to, they always have and let's be fair they add more content then any other game company. AC has monthly content updates. DDO and LotRO both have free books/modules added on a fairly regular basis. Most other companies only make an expansion every year or two and then charge you another 50 bucks.
Mod 9 is on test.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
The test server is back up? They took it down like a week ago last I saw.
You should look at their foums on AC, since that game has been around even longer then DDO. Most players go on there to bitch about things they'd like easier, Turbine will change some of the things they want changed. Do the players stop complaining then because their complaints were fixed? No they immediately pick something new and start complaining, every time.
They also will post a question/complaint that has been answered 3-4 previous times, and they get mad when Turbine doesn't respond. Other players will give them links to the other threads the question was answered and they will respond, well I want the devs to respond to this one so stfu.
And your saying "give me a good reason to stay and I'll stay", they already gave you the game. They in fact don't ever have to add more content at all, it's not required. Your money goes to having the servers stay up and your information saved, it has nothing to do with adding content, it is not something they owe you. But regardless they will continue to add content when they get the chance to, they always have and let's be fair they add more content then any other game company. AC has monthly content updates. DDO and LotRO both have free books/modules added on a fairly regular basis. Most other companies only make an expansion every year or two and then charge you another 50 bucks.
The fact is if a game like DDO never gave free updates as part of your $15 a month it would not have seen year three. Sorry but the content added to DDO has been quite little over the last year and a half. The more you post the more fanboy you have become here.
Most other games that are in any way a success are not as small or limited as DDO. If you can not understand that then further discussion between us will be worthless.
Wow he actually went there.
Can you imagine going into a restaurant where you had to pay in advance for your meal, but after waiting 45 minutes the waiter comes back and tells you they are under no obligation to actually bring you any food? Then she tells you that your money which you paid in advance was simply access to the table, the chairs and the restrooms.
You're damned right I'm gonna "whine and complain" I might even fight a waiter or two on the way out. Then, on my way out, I see a guy like you sitting in the corner with a big wide grin, your napkin tucked into your collar waiting for something that never comes. And you think I'm the simple one...
WTF are you smoking moron?
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Not only are you being obtuse in your points about my "analogy", but you are joining in the same ridiculous argument that he did. You cannot possibly expect me to believe that MMO's are not supposed to get active development, regular content, and open and direct communication about where the game is going.
If you feel otherwise, you sir, are in the minority and couldn't be more wrong in your assessment of what the relationship is between the MMO company and its playerbase. Stay obtuse for all I care, your opinion means nothing at all when it doesn't meet even the most basic criteria to be taken seriously.
Show me an MMO without regular content updates and I'll show you a waste of your money, no matter what the "base" game is like. In fact, if you actually pay for an MMO based on it's "base" content, you are even more dense than I imagined. They have games with good "base" content. That's why you don't pay $14.95 per month to play Neverwinter Nights, or Dawn of War, or hell even Starcraft/Warcraft is free once you buy the base game. I don't pay monthly to play GTA IV, or any other game with online-multiplayer features. Well I hope this has revealed your ignorance. It's not too late to change.
I think your analogy is incorrect.
It should be more like going to a buffet and paying for that. Then complaining that there was no new types of food added to the menu. The regular food on the menu is there, just nothing new.
You are not paying for new developement as much as you are the support of the game, new developement is only a small piece of the pie if it is anything in the pie at all.
Sorry but you are wrong. DDO needs continued developement and content to survive. It is quite clear by the current population that DDO is far from thriving, it is a niche game that needs to retain all the customers it can. You are absolutely paying for continued developement, people who fail to see this are the reason some games think it is ok to do nothing and expect an MMO to be a hit.