You are actually the one who is wrong. You WANT content to be consistenyl added, which is fine. However your monthly fee does not REQUIRE them to add content, it is not part of the contract. The fee is for the servers and your data, not for the creation of content. This is why most companies only release new content in the form of expansions and charge $50 for them, that box fee is what pays for that content you just received.
People confuse wants with what they feel is the situation, your ranting telling everyone they're idiots for not expecting to get new content for their monthly fees helps prove this. You have to learn what you are actually paying for, not what you want to be paying for.
As for fanboy, you may call me what you wish but I don't play DDO for a reason, I tried it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I have other games. I did like the real time attacks and constant movement but I didn't enjoy the setup and people rushing through dungeons to the finish instead of having fun in them. I play LotRO on and off, not sure if that qualifies for the fanboy tag. The one I stick with is Asheron's Call, because I like the style of the game.
There are things Turbine does wrong and things they do right. The point of my posts is to say 1) they actually communicate quite a bit and 2) you are not paying for development of free content.
And to the other guy with the food analogy, that is so far off course it's not even funny. But there was that lady who called 911 when McDonald's wouldn't give her chicken nuggets, so I guess it does happen.
You are actually the one who is wrong. You WANT content to be consistenyl added, which is fine. However your monthly fee does not REQUIRE them to add content, it is not part of the contract. The fee is for the servers and your data, not for the creation of content. This is why most companies only release new content in the form of expansions and charge $50 for them, that box fee is what pays for that content you just received.
People confuse wants with what they feel is the situation, your ranting telling everyone they're idiots for not expecting to get new content for their monthly fees helps prove this. You have to learn what you are actually paying for, not what you want to be paying for.
As for fanboy, you may call me what you wish but I don't play DDO for a reason, I tried it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I have other games. I did like the real time attacks and constant movement but I didn't enjoy the setup and people rushing through dungeons to the finish instead of having fun in them. I play LotRO on and off, not sure if that qualifies for the fanboy tag. The one I stick with is Asheron's Call, because I like the style of the game.
There are things Turbine does wrong and things they do right. The point of my posts is to say 1) they actually communicate quite a bit and 2) you are not paying for development of free content.
And to the other guy with the food analogy, that is so far off course it's not even funny. But there was that lady who called 911 when McDonald's wouldn't give her chicken nuggets, so I guess it does happen.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
You really don't get it do you. No matter how badly you want your money to fund continued development, there is no requirement that they use the money for that purpose, that is why it is a WANT and not at all in any way a FACT.
The FACT is that your money only guarantees you a server that the game is on, and your personal information saved. That is the only thing they HAVE to provide for the money you pay them. If the CHOOSE to use the money to create more content and give it away free they are of course entitled. But because they did it once doesn't REQUIRE them to do it again, your money still ONLY GUARANTEES that you will get a server and saved information.
To top it all off people have already told you mod 9 is coming, so even though they don't have to create more free content for you, your still getting it.
The whole entire point that you keep missing is the company is never REQUIRED to give you new free content because you pay a monthly fee.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
You really don't get it do you. No matter how badly you want your money to fund continued development, there is no requirement that they use the money for that purpose, that is why it is a WANT and not at all in any way a FACT.
The FACT is that your money only guarantees you a server that the game is on, and your personal information saved. That is the only thing they HAVE to provide for the money you pay them. If the CHOOSE to use the money to create more content and give it away free they are of course entitled. But because they did it once doesn't REQUIRE them to do it again, your money still ONLY GUARANTEES that you will get a server and saved information.
To top it all off people have already told you mod 9 is coming, so even though they don't have to create more free content for you, your still getting it.
The whole entire point that you keep missing is the company is never REQUIRED to give you new free content because you pay a monthly fee.
Nevermind. You obviously have no business or common sense. We are done.
You are actually the one who is wrong. You WANT content to be consistenyl added, which is fine. However your monthly fee does not REQUIRE them to add content, it is not part of the contract. The fee is for the servers and your data, not for the creation of content. This is why most companies only release new content in the form of expansions and charge $50 for them, that box fee is what pays for that content you just received.
People confuse wants with what they feel is the situation, your ranting telling everyone they're idiots for not expecting to get new content for their monthly fees helps prove this. You have to learn what you are actually paying for, not what you want to be paying for.
As for fanboy, you may call me what you wish but I don't play DDO for a reason, I tried it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I have other games. I did like the real time attacks and constant movement but I didn't enjoy the setup and people rushing through dungeons to the finish instead of having fun in them. I play LotRO on and off, not sure if that qualifies for the fanboy tag. The one I stick with is Asheron's Call, because I like the style of the game.
There are things Turbine does wrong and things they do right. The point of my posts is to say 1) they actually communicate quite a bit and 2) you are not paying for development of free content.
And to the other guy with the food analogy, that is so far off course it's not even funny. But there was that lady who called 911 when McDonald's wouldn't give her chicken nuggets, so I guess it does happen.
Nothing in life is free and content updates in MMOs are even less free. Subscription fees pay for more than just server and staff and bandwitdth. You're the one who is clueless about that part of the equation. Developers get paid to make that content and it's not coming from the pockets of the executives of the company, it's coming from the pockets of subscribers. Expansions are larger chunks of content that require extra funding and that is why they charge extra for the box or download as well as being a means to make extra profit at the expense of the consumer.
You wonder why people expect content updates outside of expansions? It's because every developer so far promises these updates. They promise to add content at no extra charge along with the expansions. This is not some implied belief on the players part. Just because they don't charge extra for this content doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for the quantity or quality of that said content, after all, it's still being paid for in the end. MMOs are a product and a service and consumers have a right to hold the company accountable if they feel they are being short changed in the deal.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
For those of you who think it is required, show me in any of the ToS EULAs or any other of the documents you agree with when you sign up for a game that free content additions are guaranteed and are what your money goes to.
I played DDO in beta and there was very little content.....I thought the most I would be able to squeeze out of the game was a month before boredom would totally set in........TBH I am surprised the game is still around today.
One problem with Turbine's player base is the player base. You see it on the Asheron's Call forums too (I've been playing AC since the beginning), people feel they are owed much more communication then they actually are. So at some point players of Turbine games got spoiled by lots of dev posts, and now that they aren't getting as many they feel they are owed them.
I don't feel it's Turbine's fault except for maybe communicating too much in the beginning of both of these games and creating the expectation. Overall I still see more dev posts on Turbine forums then most other MMOs, I chalk it up to misguided players. That and the fact that Turbine tends to not delete posts that bash them, they are nice enough to let you say what you want as long as it doesn't involve profanity or insults to other players. So these posts would be deleted on a lot of other game forums.
I have to agree with this, coming into the MMO genre at Everquest 1 I understand that a company will tell you things when you need to know them and when they have something to tell you.
Ppl want to know everything about anything now and feel ignored if there isn't a constant barrage of news streaming their way.
Content patches used to be few and far between and in general where the sole property of the yearly expansion that you had to part cash for, now these days we get free content updates, yet thats still not good enough for some ppl.
Development costs and manpower hrs put into new content is not free, yet with a small playerbase Turbine still manage to get content out to ppl at no extra cost to the subscriber, yet again this is still not good enough for some ppl.
I like to pop into DDO now and again, I know that when I'm ready for a good dungeon crawl the likelyhood is that the content available to me would be fresh enough to interest me due to me being away for usually 6 months at a time.
I don't see DDO shutting shop anytime soon and I hope it doesn't.
One problem with Turbine's player base is the player base. You see it on the Asheron's Call forums too (I've been playing AC since the beginning), people feel they are owed much more communication then they actually are. So at some point players of Turbine games got spoiled by lots of dev posts, and now that they aren't getting as many they feel they are owed them.
I don't feel it's Turbine's fault except for maybe communicating too much in the beginning of both of these games and creating the expectation. Overall I still see more dev posts on Turbine forums then most other MMOs, I chalk it up to misguided players. That and the fact that Turbine tends to not delete posts that bash them, they are nice enough to let you say what you want as long as it doesn't involve profanity or insults to other players. So these posts would be deleted on a lot of other game forums.
I have to agree with this, coming into the MMO genre at Everquest 1 I understand that a company will tell you things when you need to know them and when they have something to tell you.
Ppl want to know everything about anything now and feel ignored if there isn't a constant barrage of news streaming their way.
Content patches used to be few and far between and in general where the sole property of the yearly expansion that you had to part cash for, now these days we get free content updates, yet thats still not good enough for some ppl.
Development costs and manpower hrs put into new content is not free, yet with a small playerbase Turbine still manage to get content out to ppl at no extra cost to the subscriber, yet again this is still not good enough for some ppl.
I like to pop into DDO now and again, I know that when I'm ready for a good dungeon crawl the likelyhood is that the content available to me would be fresh enough to interest me due to me being away for usually 6 months at a time.
I don't see DDO shutting shop anytime soon and I hope it doesn't.
With dedicated players like you I am sure DDO will continue for years to come.
Originally posted by Vrazule You wonder why people expect content updates outside of expansions? It's because every developer so far promises these updates. They promise to add content at no extra charge along with the expansions. This is not some implied belief on the players part. Just because they don't charge extra for this content doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for the quantity or quality of that said content, after all, it's still being paid for in the end. MMOs are a product and a service and consumers have a right to hold the company accountable if they feel they are being short changed in the deal.
You are both right, clearly contractually Turbine have no legal obligation to provide it and the consumer has no right to expect it. The consumer however has come to expect it as an unwritten part of the contract.
If it were a takeaway and you bought food, and then they gave you some free crackers, then no matter how often they gave them to you, you would have no real right to expect them. However if the takeaway enticed you through the door with free crackers as if they would always provide them, then you would probably be right to expect them. I would probably say Turbine's position is closer to the enticed through the door scenario, but I would be hard pressed to defend a position where the customer got to then choose the quantity, regularity and composition of the new content.
Either way if you think you can actually hold them accountable in any real sense, then you are mistaken. You can speak with your feet or you can stand on a soapbox shouting the odds, but that is about it. Personally I think the first is a stronger statement and more practical if your time has any worth.
Obviously you have never been in a civil lawsuit regarding contract law, because your analysis of "what is or is not in writing" is extremely flawed. Well, sadly I have been in a very large contractual lawsuit, and won it because I was dealing with people like you who feel contract law is some black and white thing where if you check a box on a computer screen you are bound to it no matter what. There is something called the "spirit of the agreement" which in many cases takes priority over the "letter of the agreement".
Let's take your argument a step further. Let's just say Turbine comes out and says that, in black and white, your monthly fees do not entitle you to updates--merely access to the servers (they have not and will not ever say such a thing, btw). They would IMMEDIATELY face a lawsuit, possibly even class-action depending on how organized the customers get at that point.
When two parties enter into an agreement based on a certain set of promises, and then one party breaks them to the detriment of the other party, there is cause for action to seek relief. No one would dare argue that people signed up to play DDO purely to play the game as it was at launch because that snapshot was a poor specimen of online gaming. DDO at launch was full of bugs, unfinished quests, and immediately Turbine agreed to release content that was pulled prior to release in order to meet deadlines.Games are constantly being re-designed and re-worked and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to say that the game will never change from the day they launch the servers. They certainly would never make that representation AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER, {mod edit}
You see in my case, the plaintiff sued for large amounts of money because "it was in the contract" that I owed this money as an annual "fee" for their services provided. We simply introduced evidence that A) the company providing the service did not bring attention to the "fee" prior to engaging in business and other similar companies operating in the same market did not charge such a fee and finally C) when we exchanged money I had a reasonable understanding that this was a one-time charge for the services to be rendered. Since the plaintiff did not bring attention to it prior to engaging in the agreement, the judge ruled in my favor because the burden is on the originator of the contract to point out any and all caveats that the other party has to abide by. Furthermore, what other companies do in their business provide a "measuring stick" as to what is commonly accepted as true. If your head isn't spinning by now from the rope-a-dope here, the judge herself asked a very significant question which the plaintiff could not answer: What is the typical practice from other companies that do what you do [regarding the fee]? His answer was "some do and some don't".
The NATURE of MMO games, and this is very relevant for this discussion, so pay close attention, is to create additional content based on the monthly fee. If you were to argue, in a civil courtroom, that other mmo developers provide new content based on the fees collected every month, and that collecting fees and creating new content is the nature of the industry, you would win. You engaged in the agreement with Turbine and you had a fair and reasonable expectation to such updates -- then Turbine would have the burden of establishing that they INFORMED you that they are NOT like other MMO developers. They must clearly and conspicuously notify you that they are not like Blizzard and they promise you no updates whatsoever. This would be a clear case of deceptive trade. Again - Turbine has never made (and never will) any claim like this. So just drop it already - you are obviously WAY out of your league in saying what can or cannot be done.
This is not as simple as a fast food restaurant where one company may offer fries with their "value meal" and the other company does not. Obviously there is signage that points this out prior to exchanging monies. In Turbine's case, there is a reasonable expectation that those updates are what you pay for. Even if its not EXPLICITY spelled out -- it is a REASONABLE expectation.
You argue that they are not REQUIRED, but they ARE. It is the nature of the business.
You think you have some kind of education based on what, watching a few episodes of Law & Order? Well I have the unfortunate experience of costly and extensive litigation to back me up. So pack that in your pipe and smoke it dude. Not only did I win the lawsuit but represented myself at trial. Including cross examining their witnesses and going against their TEAM of lawyers. Contract law is not as black and white as you think it is.
Yes I to challenge you to sue them over that and win, you won't. But your last post has proven to everyone how much of a nut job you are. And still they owe you no new free content, and they are legally all set if they choose not to give you more free content.
I will be waiting for the post of how you brought Turbine to it's knees in court though lol.
Keep in mind that no one is suing Turbine for anything. They have not represented that the game will cease receiving updates. If I were a paying customer, and they made such an announcement, I would seek legal counsel as to any remedy that may be sought. Again, they have not made any such representation, nor would I expect them.
As far as your comments about intelligence, I do not see how a person with low intelligence could represent his own company in civil court (not small claims, mind you) versus a team of experienced attorneys and end up with a victory. Perhaps its time that you found another thread to participate in. This thread was about a company who really performed poorly with regards to their excellent license. I had high hopes for D&D Online. I refuse to call it DDO any further since DDO represents Turbine's interpretation. The term D&D Online will forever remain in my mind a pristine image of a successful and glorious MMO that DDO should have been.
Keep in mind that no one is suing Turbine for anything. They have not represented that the game will cease receiving updates. If I were a paying customer, and they made such an announcement, I would seek legal counsel as to any remedy that may be sought. Again, they have not made any such representation, nor would I expect them. As far as your comments about intelligence, I do not see how a person with low intelligence could represent his own company in civil court (not small claims, mind you) versus a team of experienced attorneys and end up with a victory. Perhaps its time that you found another thread to participate in. This thread was about a company who really performed poorly with regards to their excellent license. I had high hopes for D&D Online. I refuse to call it DDO any further since DDO represents Turbine's interpretation. The term D&D Online will forever remain in my mind a pristine image of a successful and glorious MMO that DDO should have been.
Comments
You are actually the one who is wrong. You WANT content to be consistenyl added, which is fine. However your monthly fee does not REQUIRE them to add content, it is not part of the contract. The fee is for the servers and your data, not for the creation of content. This is why most companies only release new content in the form of expansions and charge $50 for them, that box fee is what pays for that content you just received.
People confuse wants with what they feel is the situation, your ranting telling everyone they're idiots for not expecting to get new content for their monthly fees helps prove this. You have to learn what you are actually paying for, not what you want to be paying for.
As for fanboy, you may call me what you wish but I don't play DDO for a reason, I tried it and I didn't enjoy it as much as I have other games. I did like the real time attacks and constant movement but I didn't enjoy the setup and people rushing through dungeons to the finish instead of having fun in them. I play LotRO on and off, not sure if that qualifies for the fanboy tag. The one I stick with is Asheron's Call, because I like the style of the game.
There are things Turbine does wrong and things they do right. The point of my posts is to say 1) they actually communicate quite a bit and 2) you are not paying for development of free content.
And to the other guy with the food analogy, that is so far off course it's not even funny. But there was that lady who called 911 when McDonald's wouldn't give her chicken nuggets, so I guess it does happen.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
You really don't get it do you. No matter how badly you want your money to fund continued development, there is no requirement that they use the money for that purpose, that is why it is a WANT and not at all in any way a FACT.
The FACT is that your money only guarantees you a server that the game is on, and your personal information saved. That is the only thing they HAVE to provide for the money you pay them. If the CHOOSE to use the money to create more content and give it away free they are of course entitled. But because they did it once doesn't REQUIRE them to do it again, your money still ONLY GUARANTEES that you will get a server and saved information.
To top it all off people have already told you mod 9 is coming, so even though they don't have to create more free content for you, your still getting it.
The whole entire point that you keep missing is the company is never REQUIRED to give you new free content because you pay a monthly fee.
Here is where you are wrong. They have created 8 Mods which my money and anyone else who pays them has funded. I was paying for continued developement. I never called anyone an idiot. You might feel like one when you realize you have no clue, but that is your own problem not mine. It is quite clear that Turbine has decided my money funds new content for 3 years. It is not like anyone is asking for something they have not done before. You do understand that fact right?
As for Turbine communicating quite a bit, you are wrong again. Even longtime fanboys have been recently complaining about the lack of communication. Spin it anyway you want DDOs team does not communicate well at all. But by all means continue to try and change reality at least I get a laugh out of you.
You really don't get it do you. No matter how badly you want your money to fund continued development, there is no requirement that they use the money for that purpose, that is why it is a WANT and not at all in any way a FACT.
The FACT is that your money only guarantees you a server that the game is on, and your personal information saved. That is the only thing they HAVE to provide for the money you pay them. If the CHOOSE to use the money to create more content and give it away free they are of course entitled. But because they did it once doesn't REQUIRE them to do it again, your money still ONLY GUARANTEES that you will get a server and saved information.
To top it all off people have already told you mod 9 is coming, so even though they don't have to create more free content for you, your still getting it.
The whole entire point that you keep missing is the company is never REQUIRED to give you new free content because you pay a monthly fee.
Nevermind. You obviously have no business or common sense. We are done.
Nothing in life is free and content updates in MMOs are even less free. Subscription fees pay for more than just server and staff and bandwitdth. You're the one who is clueless about that part of the equation. Developers get paid to make that content and it's not coming from the pockets of the executives of the company, it's coming from the pockets of subscribers. Expansions are larger chunks of content that require extra funding and that is why they charge extra for the box or download as well as being a means to make extra profit at the expense of the consumer.
You wonder why people expect content updates outside of expansions? It's because every developer so far promises these updates. They promise to add content at no extra charge along with the expansions. This is not some implied belief on the players part. Just because they don't charge extra for this content doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for the quantity or quality of that said content, after all, it's still being paid for in the end. MMOs are a product and a service and consumers have a right to hold the company accountable if they feel they are being short changed in the deal.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
For those of you who think it is required, show me in any of the ToS EULAs or any other of the documents you agree with when you sign up for a game that free content additions are guaranteed and are what your money goes to.
I played DDO in beta and there was very little content.....I thought the most I would be able to squeeze out of the game was a month before boredom would totally set in........TBH I am surprised the game is still around today.
Show me one MMO that hasn't done updates over time with their subscription revenue--once you found one, I'll get right on that EULA.
To clear it up - I'm the one who called you an idiot. It seems you didn't have to try very hard to prove me right.
I have to agree with this, coming into the MMO genre at Everquest 1 I understand that a company will tell you things when you need to know them and when they have something to tell you.
Ppl want to know everything about anything now and feel ignored if there isn't a constant barrage of news streaming their way.
Content patches used to be few and far between and in general where the sole property of the yearly expansion that you had to part cash for, now these days we get free content updates, yet thats still not good enough for some ppl.
Development costs and manpower hrs put into new content is not free, yet with a small playerbase Turbine still manage to get content out to ppl at no extra cost to the subscriber, yet again this is still not good enough for some ppl.
I like to pop into DDO now and again, I know that when I'm ready for a good dungeon crawl the likelyhood is that the content available to me would be fresh enough to interest me due to me being away for usually 6 months at a time.
I don't see DDO shutting shop anytime soon and I hope it doesn't.
I have to agree with this, coming into the MMO genre at Everquest 1 I understand that a company will tell you things when you need to know them and when they have something to tell you.
Ppl want to know everything about anything now and feel ignored if there isn't a constant barrage of news streaming their way.
Content patches used to be few and far between and in general where the sole property of the yearly expansion that you had to part cash for, now these days we get free content updates, yet thats still not good enough for some ppl.
Development costs and manpower hrs put into new content is not free, yet with a small playerbase Turbine still manage to get content out to ppl at no extra cost to the subscriber, yet again this is still not good enough for some ppl.
I like to pop into DDO now and again, I know that when I'm ready for a good dungeon crawl the likelyhood is that the content available to me would be fresh enough to interest me due to me being away for usually 6 months at a time.
I don't see DDO shutting shop anytime soon and I hope it doesn't.
With dedicated players like you I am sure DDO will continue for years to come.
You are both right, clearly contractually Turbine have no legal obligation to provide it and the consumer has no right to expect it. The consumer however has come to expect it as an unwritten part of the contract.
If it were a takeaway and you bought food, and then they gave you some free crackers, then no matter how often they gave them to you, you would have no real right to expect them. However if the takeaway enticed you through the door with free crackers as if they would always provide them, then you would probably be right to expect them. I would probably say Turbine's position is closer to the enticed through the door scenario, but I would be hard pressed to defend a position where the customer got to then choose the quantity, regularity and composition of the new content.
Either way if you think you can actually hold them accountable in any real sense, then you are mistaken. You can speak with your feet or you can stand on a soapbox shouting the odds, but that is about it. Personally I think the first is a stronger statement and more practical if your time has any worth.
Obviously you have never been in a civil lawsuit regarding contract law, because your analysis of "what is or is not in writing" is extremely flawed. Well, sadly I have been in a very large contractual lawsuit, and won it because I was dealing with people like you who feel contract law is some black and white thing where if you check a box on a computer screen you are bound to it no matter what. There is something called the "spirit of the agreement" which in many cases takes priority over the "letter of the agreement".
Let's take your argument a step further. Let's just say Turbine comes out and says that, in black and white, your monthly fees do not entitle you to updates--merely access to the servers (they have not and will not ever say such a thing, btw). They would IMMEDIATELY face a lawsuit, possibly even class-action depending on how organized the customers get at that point.
When two parties enter into an agreement based on a certain set of promises, and then one party breaks them to the detriment of the other party, there is cause for action to seek relief. No one would dare argue that people signed up to play DDO purely to play the game as it was at launch because that snapshot was a poor specimen of online gaming. DDO at launch was full of bugs, unfinished quests, and immediately Turbine agreed to release content that was pulled prior to release in order to meet deadlines.Games are constantly being re-designed and re-worked and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to say that the game will never change from the day they launch the servers. They certainly would never make that representation AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER, {mod edit}
You see in my case, the plaintiff sued for large amounts of money because "it was in the contract" that I owed this money as an annual "fee" for their services provided. We simply introduced evidence that A) the company providing the service did not bring attention to the "fee" prior to engaging in business and
other similar companies operating in the same market did not charge such a fee and finally C) when we exchanged money I had a reasonable understanding that this was a one-time charge for the services to be rendered. Since the plaintiff did not bring attention to it prior to engaging in the agreement, the judge ruled in my favor because the burden is on the originator of the contract to point out any and all caveats that the other party has to abide by. Furthermore, what other companies do in their business provide a "measuring stick" as to what is commonly accepted as true. If your head isn't spinning by now from the rope-a-dope here, the judge herself asked a very significant question which the plaintiff could not answer: What is the typical practice from other companies that do what you do [regarding the fee]? His answer was "some do and some don't".
The NATURE of MMO games, and this is very relevant for this discussion, so pay close attention, is to create additional content based on the monthly fee. If you were to argue, in a civil courtroom, that other mmo developers provide new content based on the fees collected every month, and that collecting fees and creating new content is the nature of the industry, you would win. You engaged in the agreement with Turbine and you had a fair and reasonable expectation to such updates -- then Turbine would have the burden of establishing that they INFORMED you that they are NOT like other MMO developers. They must clearly and conspicuously notify you that they are not like Blizzard and they promise you no updates whatsoever. This would be a clear case of deceptive trade. Again - Turbine has never made (and never will) any claim like this. So just drop it already - you are obviously WAY out of your league in saying what can or cannot be done.
This is not as simple as a fast food restaurant where one company may offer fries with their "value meal" and the other company does not. Obviously there is signage that points this out prior to exchanging monies. In Turbine's case, there is a reasonable expectation that those updates are what you pay for. Even if its not EXPLICITY spelled out -- it is a REASONABLE expectation.
You argue that they are not REQUIRED, but they ARE. It is the nature of the business.
You think you have some kind of education based on what, watching a few episodes of Law & Order? Well I have the unfortunate experience of costly and extensive litigation to back me up. So pack that in your pipe and smoke it dude. Not only did I win the lawsuit but represented myself at trial. Including cross examining their witnesses and going against their TEAM of lawyers. Contract law is not as black and white as you think it is.
Yes I to challenge you to sue them over that and win, you won't. But your last post has proven to everyone how much of a nut job you are. And still they owe you no new free content, and they are legally all set if they choose not to give you more free content.
I will be waiting for the post of how you brought Turbine to it's knees in court though lol.
One thing is for sure though, it doesn't take much to bring you to yours.
Have a nice day?
Thank you for helping prove my point of how low your intelligence actually is.
Keep in mind that no one is suing Turbine for anything. They have not represented that the game will cease receiving updates. If I were a paying customer, and they made such an announcement, I would seek legal counsel as to any remedy that may be sought. Again, they have not made any such representation, nor would I expect them.
As far as your comments about intelligence, I do not see how a person with low intelligence could represent his own company in civil court (not small claims, mind you) versus a team of experienced attorneys and end up with a victory. Perhaps its time that you found another thread to participate in. This thread was about a company who really performed poorly with regards to their excellent license. I had high hopes for D&D Online. I refuse to call it DDO any further since DDO represents Turbine's interpretation. The term D&D Online will forever remain in my mind a pristine image of a successful and glorious MMO that DDO should have been.
/signed