I hope the game does cater to lower end systems like WoW. I would like to see iot get some impressive numbers and not just be another WaR or AoC. Graphics I can learn to live with, pvp is not a major factor for me, as long as the game is fun is all that matters to the end.
How about opening your mouth with your opinion when there's actual content released. Stop acting like you know wtf you're talking about. There's not even a beta released, things change get over it. Last thing we fucking need is some noob trying to start a flaming contest.
Who wrote in stone there was only gonna be just those classes? Hell who wrote in stone any shit that you're claiming? Like I said things change, and last I checked Bio Ware has an amazing track record for great games. You know just like blizzard, the company that released the single most successful MMO to date. So stop your ranting and wait for more then nothing to be released and actually be "written" in stone.
Thanks and have a great day
Take it easy.
You've just done exactly what you told the OP not to do, except the OP put his ideas, assumptions and opinions forward without being at all aggressive or offensive.
You don't have to agree, but you don't have to attack the OP for having his own opinion either.
Originally posted by Dewm one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage Beastmaster = wow hunter Black Mage = wow worlock Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage Corsair Dancer Dark Knight Dragoon Monk Ninja Paladin Puppetmaster Ranger Red Mage Samurai Scholar Summoner Thief Warrior White Mage
and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!? (And btw FFXI came out in 03, WoW came out 04)
LOL, WoW actually copied Warhammer. WoW was in development since 1998 and the Warhammer lore was in 1983.
It is sort of funny to see that fans get so defensive over this and retort to name-calling and using the same old arguments about crystal balls.. Um... ok. The crystal ball statement is because you are making very bold claims with absolutely no proof. They could just have easily cut to the chase and tell you you have no idea what you are talking about, you have no proof, you are a liar. But they were trying to be nice about it. The problem is with your writing style. You are speaking in absolutes, it comes off sounding like you have factual information but everything you say is just your own opinion. DRACCAN: Let's see when we get to beta, who is right and who is wrong.
I'm not going to bother replying to the rest. I originally assumed it was just your writing style when presenting your opinions as fact. But I see now you actually do think your opinions are factual information.
Nothing more I can say here.
You're absolutely right about everything you said Draccan, at least in your own mind.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage
Beastmaster = wow hunter
Black Mage = wow worlock
Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage
Corsair
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Puppetmaster
Ranger
Red Mage
Samurai
Scholar
Summoner
Thief
Warrior
White Mage
and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!?
(And btw FFXI came out in 03, WoW came out 04)
LOL, WoW actually copied Warhammer. WoW was in development since 1998 and the Warhammer lore was in 1983.
Btw warcraft was released in 1994. Warcraft 3 wasn't released till about 2002, where as WoW was released in 2004. So I dunno if wow was actually in development in 1998 or not but w/e. I did some research, I can't find any warhammer releases back in 1983 for video games. The earliest I found was in 1997.
Now if you're saying Blizzard copied their ideas, just fyi Witchcraft and Wizardry lore dates back 100's of years ago. It wasn't just created in the last 30 years.
On another note, if anyone would have actually copied anyone. Dungeons and Dragons is the oldest fantasy game around, so end of discussion .
Oh cmon! Its Bioware! Hardly a great name in the games industry let alone an MMO. If it doesnt fail, especially considering the gade A MMO's we are anticipating, I for one would be astounded.
That's sarcasm right? At least I hope so.........oh no wait........I bet with A grade MMOs you are talking about Aion.....
So basically the guy is saying TOR does not equal Pre-NGE SWG, so it fails. I played SWG at launch...and I hated it. I found it boring in the extreme, with nothing really interesting about it.
Also, I hate to break to all of you wanting a SWG Star Wars experience and are thinking that this game is going to fail because it's not an improved carbon copy, but...
This game will succeed. It's got a company with a reputation for good games behind it and can afford to advertise, and it's got an IP that will attract people from a broad variety of demographics. Add to the fact that you will actually be able to play a Jedi (I mean, come on. Who the hell thinks of Star Wars without thinking of Jedi?), and that Bioware will be more free in what they can do, since they are not stuck in the movie timeline, and you're probably looking at the next WoW. I don't think it's ever going to do that well (since the vast majority of WoW subs comes from Asia), but I do think it will get at least a couple million subscribers.
Finally...no major gaming company would try to attract the demographic the SWG "vets" represent. It's too small...it's niche. Most people DO want their experiences spelled out for them, for better or for worse. It doesn't mean they're stupid, or brainwashed by society, or whatever. It just means they don't like what you like.
And honestly, after seeing so many "I HAET SOE FOR NGE" posts on this forum, I have to say that most of those kids are more mature than you lot are.
New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.
But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now: 1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter 2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC. 4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC. 5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story. 6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills. 7. Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later. 8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment. 9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters. 10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there. 11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last? 12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking? 13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.
Conclusion: This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze.. Some might now jump in and say that it is guess-work, that we don't know all the facts; that maybe there will be deep crafting, hardcore pvp, housing, space flight etc. But these comments are ignorant and nothing to do with the truth. Truth is that the path of TOR is already set and it is set up for eye candy and a hollow gameplay. Not a real MMO as it won't be that massive or free. Games make and break at launch now. There is no time to make space six to twelve months after (and what good did it really do SWG in the long run). There is no time to make that expansion that fixes all the problems (WAR + AoC). Either you make it or you will suffer a slow, suffocating death. Bioware has taken the easy route of doing everything as simple and dumped-down as possible. It won't be hardcore pvp, it won't be massive diverse game with many play-options like crafting and non-combat professions. What game companies does not understand is that the whole foundation of mmos is built around the principle that players should have the option of doing what THEY want in the game. Interact in many ways and not just kill-botting each other or npcs over and over. The combat oriented gamer should want the crafters and non-combatees to give flair and atmosphere to their game - to be able to interact with when needing an armour or a new weapon. This is what breathes life into the genre. What Bioware is doing is to put one more nail in the mmo genre coffin. This game might get close to a million boxes sold or even 1.5 - but in the end it will be like many other mmos out there with empty, EMPTY servers after six months. People will buy it for the name, Star Wars, but leave when they see there is no freedom in this game. For Bioware it will mean not only breaking even, but also making a big chunk of cash - but for the players - the gaming community - it is just one more way to kill PC gaming..
Draccan
This post is simply a statement of your ignorance, rather than an actual critical look into the game itself. I found it quite amusing tbh because you tried to label SWTOR as a failure, prior to its release based on elements of the game that have generally been well recieved by critics, fans and the general population who have been watching the game.
Having fixed classes means that they can better direct players who want a casual experience into the roles they are playing. It's madness to say that a single class which can then branch out based on the skills you used is any different fro having fixed classes that are better at certain roles. In a game where you have one class, you go into the game and the use abilities eventually becoming proficient in a single or limited range of roles. This takes time and effort and - generally - a lot of grinding (which contrary to moronic belief is not fun). In a fixed class system you simply chose which role you will want to perform at the character creation screen. Exactly the same functionality is achieved however the latter is easier, faster and ore efficient and allows the compelling content to be accessed sooner, rather than much later. Of course, both systems have their strengths - an as such, each has a unique set of fans - but the systems themselves are not really that different when you look at the end result.
Your second point, a lack of mobility between factions and the Treaty meaning the PvP will be poor is brainless. The preise of the game is that - at the start of the ingae timeline - the Treaty is failing. When treaties fail, skirmishes and - sometimes - full blown battles - often occur. This means that both factions are beginning to look back to their war efforts and in MO terms, this means that their is a chance for PvP to be progressive as in, as the treaty breask down, PvP encounters become larger, ore destructive and more compelling over a period of time, instead of having a static PvP system that has no progression and no meaning in the overall world. I look to WoW as an example of a static, meaningless PvP system with a weak backstory and no progression. Bioware is saying that all elements of TOR will be effected by story so it stands to reason that PvP encounters will be progressive affairs that will start off small and eventually lead to massive battles between both factions. They've even stated that they are looking at Warhammer Online and other PvP centric games to see how they can best achieve a high level of PvP to story immersion. As to the lock of obility between factions, why would you need it? Games have tried this before... and failed entirely. Star Wars Galaxies has more people riding the fence than people actually fighting. The majority will obvioulsy chose a position of neturality and safety rather than outrigh allegiance to a single faction. In games like Eve, the developers have had to find ways to entice players into factional warfare and even then, the ajority stay out of it. If that were to occur in TOR, there would be no hope of largescale PvP because the numbers would not be able to sustain it.
Not having space combat or exploration in TOR is not a weakness. This is meant to follow on from the KotoR series, not be an entire sandbox universe. There is direction to your actions, not floundering confusion. They've even said that space based gameplay would be something for the future. Have you ever been involved in product development? The worse thing you can do is server a product with lots and lots of content in the genre because (a) you saturate the game, which confuses the player base and (b) you have no concrete content for expansion and progression. Star Wars isn't all about space combat. In fact, a lot of the ost famous fights took place on planets. Geonosis, Naboo, Hoth etc etc so on and so forth. Space combat will undoubtedly be added later but not having it here and now allows them to polish a game that is set to have more content that the majority of MMOs out there, if not all of them. To say that - because there is no space - TOR will not last is an ignorant statement which is evidence of your complete lack of understanding of the market at hand and how developers ensure longevity. World of Warcraft included a small percentage of the entire WC universe in the original release. LOTRO did the same. As did AoC, WAR etc etc so on and so forth. I could deminish your point here for hours but I guess most get the idea.
As for instancing, of course they will use instancing... but it's apparent from the hands on at E3 that it will not be heavily used. They've already stated that they want players to feel immersed in a world where others are running around them. Furthermore, you do know that the engine they are using can support up to 150,000 players in the same instance, yes? They are more likely to go the WoW way because that is the way that works. Frankly however, it does not matter. If the game is good and compelling, people will play it regardless of the way the game world is built. Those that do not - based on the fact that is isn't a true MMO - are the people that will grow to be archaic examples of human life. MMOs will evolve and change and if you cannot evolve and change with them, that is your own stubborn problem and reprisents a minority, not a majority.
I'll leave the gameplay comment alone because that is just wild speculation on your part which - interestingly - you obviously have no faith in. You don't even vaguely try to enforce the point ^^
Heroes need houses to. Player cities are key to MMOs as they facilitate trade, grouping and the entire social aspect of the MMO.
I feel pity for you and people like you. MMOs do not have to be hardcore, open, non-linear etc etc. It's just ignorance on your part that they have to be. Frankly, the darker setting of TOR seems to suggest that it will appeal to a assive audience but when people come along and say, "it will be a kids game," I can't help but facepalm. The largest demo of game players is not children. IT's the 21-30 age group. Bioware won't sacrifice that to deliver a gae that a few hundred thousands parents may let their kids play. The Star Wars franchise is old and whilst there is a new generation of fans, Bioware are capable enough to make this game appeal to a wide array of audiences. This isn't Free Realms.
However, if what you say becomes truht at soe point in the future, I will be shocked but I will still try the game out because... from what we have seen so far... it's going to evolve the MMO genre and not leave it stagnating like some people want developers to.
Sadly the OP might be right. What we've seen so far isn't really all that impressive in the way of the game itself. It seems there will not be much variety in weapons for like the Trooper class - beyond color schemes. Armor seems a variation of the same. The fact that there seems to be no space combat (ship-to-ship) is sad. I dunno. I will wait and see what they show us on Wednesday...but to be honest I do not think it will be all that impressive. God I hope I am wrong.
The only thing that is epic is the premature failgasims by jaded gamers. Here is a thought; how about forming an opinion after you actually play a game? Like oh my god what a concept!!!
The shill is strong with this one.
Here's my guess, most of the people saying this game is fail will be playing TOR within the first year after they here how much fun people are having in it. Some may even be outside Bestbuy standing in line for the midnight launch. xD
Noooooo people having fun in SWTOR no that cant be right *checks crystal ball* see it says TOR will fail, no point in talking about this anymore Im gonna call Biwoare in the morning and tell them to just close up shop in Austin.
Anyways I highly doubt it will relase later then fall of 2010. Imo they should go for a late spring or early summer relase and then just dominate the gaming world from Dragon Age release to ME2 to TOR now that would be a awesome year of gaming.
/agree
That will be a great run when they release those games. Can't wait! Ignore the haters, they are sooo in the minority on this one it is really just a waste of time to respond...(though I find myself doing it anyway....)
one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage
Beastmaster = wow hunter
Black Mage = wow worlock
Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage
Corsair
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Puppetmaster
Ranger
Red Mage
Samurai
Scholar
Summoner
Thief
Warrior
White Mage
and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!?
(And btw FFXI came out in 03, WoW came out 04)
LOL, WoW actually copied Warhammer. WoW was in development since 1998 and the Warhammer lore was in 1983.
Btw warcraft was released in 1994. Warcraft 3 wasn't released till about 2002, where as WoW was released in 2004. So I dunno if wow was actually in development in 1998 or not but w/e. I did some research, I can't find any warhammer releases back in 1983 for video games. The earliest I found was in 1997.
Now if you're saying Blizzard copied their ideas, just fyi Witchcraft and Wizardry lore dates back 100's of years ago. It wasn't just created in the last 30 years.
On another note, if anyone would have actually copied anyone. Dungeons and Dragons is the oldest fantasy game around, so end of discussion .
The original Warcraft game (Orcs and Humans) was initially supposed to be the first Warhammer RTS and Blizzard were working on it. For whatever reason however, the deal fell through and Blizzard decided to rewrite the game and create their own franchise - Warcraft. If you look at the two franchises, there are a mad amount of similarities, which is due to the inital idea behind the original Warcraft game.
It has less to do with the first Warhammer game and more to do with the origins of both franchises. As I have stated, Warcraft was intended to be Warhammer prior to the deal falling through for whatever reason but Blizzard chose to role with an adapted franchise, Warcraft, instead of abandoning the game all together. They even ellaborated on that by creating a partner franchise in Starcraft, which drew inspiration and elemtns from the Warhammer 40,000 franchise. It stands to reason, based on this fact, that Blizzard did in fact copy and adapt a large amount of ideas from the Warhammer franchise, just liked the plagarised games like Everquest, Ultima, NWN (AOL) etc etc when they set about designing WoW. They continue to do it as well... and frankly there is little wrong with it because they get it right when others get it so wrong.
The fact of the matter is that all developers will copy from other developers when the mechanics introduced work well. They will take those ideas and try to make them better. It's a staple of evolution. Adopt, adapt and improve (moto of the Round Table). Blizzard adpoted the Warhammer franchise, adpated it so they couldn't be sued and improved on it in their own way. They did the same with 40k. They even did a similar thing with Diablo and other hack 'n' slash titles.
Bioware have also done it in countless situations. You cannot say that Bioware has had it success because it is innovative in all ways becaue that isn't even remotely true. Mass Effect is based heavily on Star Wars and the Star Wars rule sets (which are in turn based heavily on D+D). Dragon Age: Origins is based heavily on Dungeons and Dragons, but adapts it slightly to suit Bioware. They tried - and subsequently failed - with Jade Empire to do their own thing.
And all this time I thought I was playing the game for the fun, the immersion and the thrill of the ride. I had no idea that I had to riddle it with so many parameters. All on a game I could buy with the money I spend one night at the bar.
Bioware has never steered me wrong. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll play it for as long as it's fun. If that's five years, so be it. If it's five minutes, so be it. I would hope I wouldn't be so pretentious to believe that my time is so inexorably valuable, I refused to try out something I might enjoy... simply because I've killed the entire premise, even before I've given it a fair shake. Hell, even before it's come out. Hell, even before I know all the information.
I guess I could live my life like that, in all things. But, then again, I'd rather not live in misery.
Conclusion: This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze.. Draccan
it would have been much easier to skip the long post and hundreds of pages of follow ups to just say,
"Yes Virginia , this game won' t be a SWG replacement."
It will be a game. Time will tell if it will be fun to play.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fanboi or not the OP is right. I'm a sandboxer at heart and I love Star Wars. PreCU SWG was alright, and was greatly improved by JtL, but there was still so much wrong and terrible about the game.
TOR is Star Wars and on that alone I will play this game but I honestly doubt it'll hold my interest longer than a few weeks.
This is not Star Wars Galaxies, and it's not SOE. How can you make judgements on a game that hasn't released much, yet? Honestly, this game was announced not that long ago..
Btw warcraft was released in 1994. Warcraft 3 wasn't released till about 2002, where as WoW was released in 2004. So I dunno if wow was actually in development in 1998 or not but w/e. I did some research, I can't find any warhammer releases back in 1983 for video games. The earliest I found was in 1997. Now if you're saying Blizzard copied their ideas, just fyi Witchcraft and Wizardry lore dates back 100's of years ago. It wasn't just created in the last 30 years. On another note, if anyone would have actually copied anyone. Dungeons and Dragons is the oldest fantasy game around, so end of discussion .
Warhammer fantasy battles (tabletop) was released 1983. Warhammer fantasy roleplaying game was released 1984 (pen and paper, got a 1st ed in my bookcase).
Warhammer is not really a copy of D&D, the game system is very different and it lacks levels and combat is a lot more tabletop based and bloody. It is more realistic. As for the lore it is stolen from Tolkien gogether with 1500-1700s europe, with the adding of Warpstone and chaos.
But Wow is not really a copy of Warhammer, Wow is closer to Forgotten realms than Wow. In warhammer you can get turned into a chaose being, the horror side of the world there was cut out by Mythic. If you never played the warhammer RPG you wont see why Wow is not a copy of it but basicly it is the feeling of the world,6 warhammer gives the player a feeling of hoplessness together with a very dark humour.
WARs system is however stolen right from Wow (even though Wow stole it from EQ that based it on D&D), it have nothing whatsoever with the Warhammer IP to do. Levels never had a place in warhammer and in the RPG you start out as a ratcatcher or another glorious class and end up like a Witchhunter, Judical champion or Templar.
D&D did invent the level system but the D&D worlds are themselves stolen from Tolkien and Howard, who was influenced by norse (tolkien) and Irish/welsch (howard) mythology.
My point anyways: Warhammers system is stolen from Wow and EQ. Wows (and EQs) world is taken from Forgotten realms and Tolkien. And Wow was actually in dev -97.
This is not Star Wars Galaxies, and it not SOE. How can you make judgements on a game that hasn't released much, yet? Honestly, this game was announced not that long ago..
They have a super duper crystal ball that they bought from Ms Cleo...
The mmo genre seems unimaginative to me now. They are trying to imitate and hybrid with other genres instead of carving out their own niche based on their unique strengths. TOR appears to be the latest example of this. The game will be slick with pretty graphics, but it will not be a living breathing world. But then, if the developers are to be believed, gamers don't want living breathing virtual worlds. They want themeparks.
Don't put the OP down at all. Just look at his post history - this guy is the Nostradamus of games!
He predicted WoW would never succeed! He predicted Darkfall would be the greatest game ever! That Final fantasy 1 would be the last in the series That the wheel would never catch on That fire was just the most useless invention ever That sticks would go out of fashion as tool before we learnt to walk upright!
So listen to him.... he knows what he is talking about! Honest!
What a weird post to make!!
I never said WoW would never succeed.
I never played nor commented on Final Fantasy.
And after writing FAIL for years on Darkfall...
Why the lies?
Oh dear...
So you did predict:
the wheel would never catch on?
That fire was a useless invention?
That sticks would go out of fashion?
I am in shock...
Originally posted by shukes33 Grind is not one of the downfalls of DF it is just a feature.
Comments
I hope the game does cater to lower end systems like WoW. I would like to see iot get some impressive numbers and not just be another WaR or AoC. Graphics I can learn to live with, pvp is not a major factor for me, as long as the game is fun is all that matters to the end.
Take it easy.
You've just done exactly what you told the OP not to do, except the OP put his ideas, assumptions and opinions forward without being at all aggressive or offensive.
You don't have to agree, but you don't have to attack the OP for having his own opinion either.
I'm not going to bother replying to the rest. I originally assumed it was just your writing style when presenting your opinions as fact. But I see now you actually do think your opinions are factual information.
Nothing more I can say here.
You're absolutely right about everything you said Draccan, at least in your own mind.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Btw warcraft was released in 1994. Warcraft 3 wasn't released till about 2002, where as WoW was released in 2004. So I dunno if wow was actually in development in 1998 or not but w/e. I did some research, I can't find any warhammer releases back in 1983 for video games. The earliest I found was in 1997.
Now if you're saying Blizzard copied their ideas, just fyi Witchcraft and Wizardry lore dates back 100's of years ago. It wasn't just created in the last 30 years.
On another note, if anyone would have actually copied anyone. Dungeons and Dragons is the oldest fantasy game around, so end of discussion
.
Oh cmon!
Its Bioware! Hardly a great name in the games industry let alone an MMO.
If it doesnt fail, especially considering the gade A MMO's we are anticipating, I for one would be astounded.
That's sarcasm right? At least I hope so.........oh no wait........I bet with A grade MMOs you are talking about Aion.....
@xS0u1zx
Every idiot know that blizzard was influenced and copied stuff from warhammer and warhammer 40k. Starcraft is highly influenced by 40000.
So basically the guy is saying TOR does not equal Pre-NGE SWG, so it fails. I played SWG at launch...and I hated it. I found it boring in the extreme, with nothing really interesting about it.
Also, I hate to break to all of you wanting a SWG Star Wars experience and are thinking that this game is going to fail because it's not an improved carbon copy, but...
This game will succeed. It's got a company with a reputation for good games behind it and can afford to advertise, and it's got an IP that will attract people from a broad variety of demographics. Add to the fact that you will actually be able to play a Jedi (I mean, come on. Who the hell thinks of Star Wars without thinking of Jedi?), and that Bioware will be more free in what they can do, since they are not stuck in the movie timeline, and you're probably looking at the next WoW. I don't think it's ever going to do that well (since the vast majority of WoW subs comes from Asia), but I do think it will get at least a couple million subscribers.
Finally...no major gaming company would try to attract the demographic the SWG "vets" represent. It's too small...it's niche. Most people DO want their experiences spelled out for them, for better or for worse. It doesn't mean they're stupid, or brainwashed by society, or whatever. It just means they don't like what you like.
And honestly, after seeing so many "I HAET SOE FOR NGE" posts on this forum, I have to say that most of those kids are more mature than you lot are.
kek,
First, Blizzard was supposedly making a warhammer game at
first (early 90s), the deal went to hell, thats prolly why the
games looks so much like warhammer, because they most
likely already had made some stuff (gfx?) for it.
Second, FFXI came out in 2002. not 2003.
Third by the screenshots, SW:tor will go for a "cartoony" look,
not unlike WoW, prolly because they want most people to be
able to play it without a monster PC, also this could indicate
that the worlds will be open, AOC had so much instansing
just because "it wouldn't be possible to have an open world
with that type of graphics".
Still, little info is out about the game, so anything could happen.
Other than that, im looking forward to SW:tor, a must test,
atleast for me.
And yeah, that cinematic is just crazy sweet. ^^
I mostly come at night... mostly.
This post is simply a statement of your ignorance, rather than an actual critical look into the game itself. I found it quite amusing tbh because you tried to label SWTOR as a failure, prior to its release based on elements of the game that have generally been well recieved by critics, fans and the general population who have been watching the game.
Having fixed classes means that they can better direct players who want a casual experience into the roles they are playing. It's madness to say that a single class which can then branch out based on the skills you used is any different fro having fixed classes that are better at certain roles. In a game where you have one class, you go into the game and the use abilities eventually becoming proficient in a single or limited range of roles. This takes time and effort and - generally - a lot of grinding (which contrary to moronic belief is not fun). In a fixed class system you simply chose which role you will want to perform at the character creation screen. Exactly the same functionality is achieved however the latter is easier, faster and ore efficient and allows the compelling content to be accessed sooner, rather than much later. Of course, both systems have their strengths - an as such, each has a unique set of fans - but the systems themselves are not really that different when you look at the end result.
Your second point, a lack of mobility between factions and the Treaty meaning the PvP will be poor is brainless. The preise of the game is that - at the start of the ingae timeline - the Treaty is failing. When treaties fail, skirmishes and - sometimes - full blown battles - often occur. This means that both factions are beginning to look back to their war efforts and in MO terms, this means that their is a chance for PvP to be progressive as in, as the treaty breask down, PvP encounters become larger, ore destructive and more compelling over a period of time, instead of having a static PvP system that has no progression and no meaning in the overall world. I look to WoW as an example of a static, meaningless PvP system with a weak backstory and no progression. Bioware is saying that all elements of TOR will be effected by story so it stands to reason that PvP encounters will be progressive affairs that will start off small and eventually lead to massive battles between both factions. They've even stated that they are looking at Warhammer Online and other PvP centric games to see how they can best achieve a high level of PvP to story immersion. As to the lock of obility between factions, why would you need it? Games have tried this before... and failed entirely. Star Wars Galaxies has more people riding the fence than people actually fighting. The majority will obvioulsy chose a position of neturality and safety rather than outrigh allegiance to a single faction. In games like Eve, the developers have had to find ways to entice players into factional warfare and even then, the ajority stay out of it. If that were to occur in TOR, there would be no hope of largescale PvP because the numbers would not be able to sustain it.
Not having space combat or exploration in TOR is not a weakness. This is meant to follow on from the KotoR series, not be an entire sandbox universe. There is direction to your actions, not floundering confusion. They've even said that space based gameplay would be something for the future. Have you ever been involved in product development? The worse thing you can do is server a product with lots and lots of content in the genre because (a) you saturate the game, which confuses the player base and (b) you have no concrete content for expansion and progression. Star Wars isn't all about space combat. In fact, a lot of the ost famous fights took place on planets. Geonosis, Naboo, Hoth etc etc so on and so forth. Space combat will undoubtedly be added later but not having it here and now allows them to polish a game that is set to have more content that the majority of MMOs out there, if not all of them. To say that - because there is no space - TOR will not last is an ignorant statement which is evidence of your complete lack of understanding of the market at hand and how developers ensure longevity. World of Warcraft included a small percentage of the entire WC universe in the original release. LOTRO did the same. As did AoC, WAR etc etc so on and so forth. I could deminish your point here for hours but I guess most get the idea.
As for instancing, of course they will use instancing... but it's apparent from the hands on at E3 that it will not be heavily used. They've already stated that they want players to feel immersed in a world where others are running around them. Furthermore, you do know that the engine they are using can support up to 150,000 players in the same instance, yes? They are more likely to go the WoW way because that is the way that works. Frankly however, it does not matter. If the game is good and compelling, people will play it regardless of the way the game world is built. Those that do not - based on the fact that is isn't a true MMO - are the people that will grow to be archaic examples of human life. MMOs will evolve and change and if you cannot evolve and change with them, that is your own stubborn problem and reprisents a minority, not a majority.
I'll leave the gameplay comment alone because that is just wild speculation on your part which - interestingly - you obviously have no faith in. You don't even vaguely try to enforce the point ^^
Heroes need houses to. Player cities are key to MMOs as they facilitate trade, grouping and the entire social aspect of the MMO.
I feel pity for you and people like you. MMOs do not have to be hardcore, open, non-linear etc etc. It's just ignorance on your part that they have to be. Frankly, the darker setting of TOR seems to suggest that it will appeal to a assive audience but when people come along and say, "it will be a kids game," I can't help but facepalm. The largest demo of game players is not children. IT's the 21-30 age group. Bioware won't sacrifice that to deliver a gae that a few hundred thousands parents may let their kids play. The Star Wars franchise is old and whilst there is a new generation of fans, Bioware are capable enough to make this game appeal to a wide array of audiences. This isn't Free Realms.
However, if what you say becomes truht at soe point in the future, I will be shocked but I will still try the game out because... from what we have seen so far... it's going to evolve the MMO genre and not leave it stagnating like some people want developers to.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
The only thing that is epic is the premature failgasims by jaded gamers. Here is a thought; how about forming an opinion after you actually play a game? Like oh my god what a concept!!!
The shill is strong with this one.
Here's my guess, most of the people saying this game is fail will be playing TOR within the first year after they here how much fun people are having in it. Some may even be outside Bestbuy standing in line for the midnight launch. xD
Noooooo people having fun in SWTOR no that cant be right *checks crystal ball* see it says TOR will fail, no point in talking about this anymore Im gonna call Biwoare in the morning and tell them to just close up shop in Austin.
Anyways I highly doubt it will relase later then fall of 2010. Imo they should go for a late spring or early summer relase and then just dominate the gaming world from Dragon Age release to ME2 to TOR now that would be a awesome year of gaming.
/agree
That will be a great run when they release those games. Can't wait! Ignore the haters, they are sooo in the minority on this one it is really just a waste of time to respond...(though I find myself doing it anyway....)
OP
But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now
yeah so how can you say the game is set up to fail if you only going by what you think
and anything concluded that you said you don't know for sure either
so really you just wasted time typing all that out because about 10% of that is true the rest is just a load of bull tbh
Btw warcraft was released in 1994. Warcraft 3 wasn't released till about 2002, where as WoW was released in 2004. So I dunno if wow was actually in development in 1998 or not but w/e. I did some research, I can't find any warhammer releases back in 1983 for video games. The earliest I found was in 1997.
Now if you're saying Blizzard copied their ideas, just fyi Witchcraft and Wizardry lore dates back 100's of years ago. It wasn't just created in the last 30 years.
On another note, if anyone would have actually copied anyone. Dungeons and Dragons is the oldest fantasy game around, so end of discussion
.
The original Warcraft game (Orcs and Humans) was initially supposed to be the first Warhammer RTS and Blizzard were working on it. For whatever reason however, the deal fell through and Blizzard decided to rewrite the game and create their own franchise - Warcraft. If you look at the two franchises, there are a mad amount of similarities, which is due to the inital idea behind the original Warcraft game.
It has less to do with the first Warhammer game and more to do with the origins of both franchises. As I have stated, Warcraft was intended to be Warhammer prior to the deal falling through for whatever reason but Blizzard chose to role with an adapted franchise, Warcraft, instead of abandoning the game all together. They even ellaborated on that by creating a partner franchise in Starcraft, which drew inspiration and elemtns from the Warhammer 40,000 franchise. It stands to reason, based on this fact, that Blizzard did in fact copy and adapt a large amount of ideas from the Warhammer franchise, just liked the plagarised games like Everquest, Ultima, NWN (AOL) etc etc when they set about designing WoW. They continue to do it as well... and frankly there is little wrong with it because they get it right when others get it so wrong.
The fact of the matter is that all developers will copy from other developers when the mechanics introduced work well. They will take those ideas and try to make them better. It's a staple of evolution. Adopt, adapt and improve (moto of the Round Table). Blizzard adpoted the Warhammer franchise, adpated it so they couldn't be sued and improved on it in their own way. They did the same with 40k. They even did a similar thing with Diablo and other hack 'n' slash titles.
Bioware have also done it in countless situations. You cannot say that Bioware has had it success because it is innovative in all ways becaue that isn't even remotely true. Mass Effect is based heavily on Star Wars and the Star Wars rule sets (which are in turn based heavily on D+D). Dragon Age: Origins is based heavily on Dungeons and Dragons, but adapts it slightly to suit Bioware. They tried - and subsequently failed - with Jade Empire to do their own thing.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Wow.
And all this time I thought I was playing the game for the fun, the immersion and the thrill of the ride. I had no idea that I had to riddle it with so many parameters. All on a game I could buy with the money I spend one night at the bar.
Bioware has never steered me wrong. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll play it for as long as it's fun. If that's five years, so be it. If it's five minutes, so be it. I would hope I wouldn't be so pretentious to believe that my time is so inexorably valuable, I refused to try out something I might enjoy... simply because I've killed the entire premise, even before I've given it a fair shake. Hell, even before it's come out. Hell, even before I know all the information.
I guess I could live my life like that, in all things. But, then again, I'd rather not live in misery.
OP, it might be NGE 2.0 or SW 2.0 but one thing is sure it will be much much more Star Warsy than CaveMan Galaxies 3.x.
Do you remember how you were owned by jantas with stone knives in SWG?
Do you remember the first dungeons were caves?
Do you remember there was no postman that delivered bought items to your houses?
I'll miss many features of SWG, I mean if they where fixed and enhanced, but TOR should be a fun and SWzy game.
it would have been much easier to skip the long post and hundreds of pages of follow ups to just say,
"Yes Virginia , this game won' t be a SWG replacement."
It will be a game. Time will tell if it will be fun to play.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fanboi or not the OP is right. I'm a sandboxer at heart and I love Star Wars. PreCU SWG was alright, and was greatly improved by JtL, but there was still so much wrong and terrible about the game.
TOR is Star Wars and on that alone I will play this game but I honestly doubt it'll hold my interest longer than a few weeks.
This is not Star Wars Galaxies, and it's not SOE. How can you make judgements on a game that hasn't released much, yet? Honestly, this game was announced not that long ago..
Warhammer fantasy battles (tabletop) was released 1983. Warhammer fantasy roleplaying game was released 1984 (pen and paper, got a 1st ed in my bookcase).
Warhammer is not really a copy of D&D, the game system is very different and it lacks levels and combat is a lot more tabletop based and bloody. It is more realistic. As for the lore it is stolen from Tolkien gogether with 1500-1700s europe, with the adding of Warpstone and chaos.
But Wow is not really a copy of Warhammer, Wow is closer to Forgotten realms than Wow. In warhammer you can get turned into a chaose being, the horror side of the world there was cut out by Mythic. If you never played the warhammer RPG you wont see why Wow is not a copy of it but basicly it is the feeling of the world,6 warhammer gives the player a feeling of hoplessness together with a very dark humour.
WARs system is however stolen right from Wow (even though Wow stole it from EQ that based it on D&D), it have nothing whatsoever with the Warhammer IP to do. Levels never had a place in warhammer and in the RPG you start out as a ratcatcher or another glorious class and end up like a Witchhunter, Judical champion or Templar.
D&D did invent the level system but the D&D worlds are themselves stolen from Tolkien and Howard, who was influenced by norse (tolkien) and Irish/welsch (howard) mythology.
My point anyways: Warhammers system is stolen from Wow and EQ. Wows (and EQs) world is taken from Forgotten realms and Tolkien. And Wow was actually in dev -97.
They have a super duper crystal ball that they bought from Ms Cleo...
Is SWG gone? Funny i though one of my EQ2 friends told me just yesterday they were playing it now and then. Guess you started the party a bit early.
The mmo genre seems unimaginative to me now. They are trying to imitate and hybrid with other genres instead of carving out their own niche based on their unique strengths. TOR appears to be the latest example of this. The game will be slick with pretty graphics, but it will not be a living breathing world. But then, if the developers are to be believed, gamers don't want living breathing virtual worlds. They want themeparks.
Is SWG gone? Funny i though one of my EQ2 friends told me just yesterday they were playing it now and then. Guess you started the party a bit early.
they are playing the NGE.
What a weird post to make!!
I never said WoW would never succeed.
I never played nor commented on Final Fantasy.
And after writing FAIL for years on Darkfall...
Why the lies?
Oh dear...
So you did predict:
the wheel would never catch on?
That fire was a useless invention?
That sticks would go out of fashion?
I am in shock...
Originally posted by shukes33
Grind is not one of the downfalls of DF it is just a feature.
Sticks are fashionable?