My impressions from the beta were great. The only reason I stopped playing before the Closed Beta ended is so that when the account gets wiped I will be less upsetby lost progress .
The graphics are good. Gameplay is fun. Storyline (if you read it) keeps you interested. The music for some reason I enjoy a lot. Character customization is very detailed. It's an overall good game that is in it's beginning stages and will continue to become a better one because NCsoft is ready to get serious.
For those who have not played the beta and are looking forward to trying it out, don't let the negative threads derail you. Try it out, read the quests, and don't look for little errors in the game. There will always be an mmo that doesn't suit every mmo fan, hence the creation of several.
Thank God it was a only 2 days beta. Damn! I got bored on the first, lol! No skill or stats customization... thats cheap! This game has very low action... even less than other grinding mmos.
Ignore the troll behind the curtain. He didn't bother to learn about the game since Stigma's aren't unlocked until higher level. you would also think that the ability to add HP/MP/Evasion/dmg/Str and just about anything under the sun to every piece of gear you own might, just might, allow you to adjust your stats as you see fit.....
Couple more things I fing really funny: 1 - everyone says the best thing Aion is the graphics. Well, thats not really true. The graphics when you really look at them are not that great.
They're not that good, the engine is nice but the design and lack of detail are omnipresent. The NPC all look alike, it's hard to find NPC when they all look like players. Simple things like unfininshed or blurry textures, wonky scenery in the cities and an overall messy feel.
The engine is good and runs great, but the graphics are very bland, they're not Guild Wars quality.
the only thing i am disppointed about with Aion is the ability to create names with any combination of alpanumeric/symbols/spaces. they need to rid of this in final release makes shit look sloppy and can be confusing when inviting ppl to groups. other than that i had a great time in open beta weekend.
I am playing on the china version of this game. I as well thought this game was polished and bug free, but nothing that hasnt been done before. But it was free to start and spent hours D/L and getting english patch ect.....
Around lvl 8 my free time ran out.....I really wanted to atleast get to 10 and check out the Gladiator so I bought 10 units of game time (about 20 hours) for around $2. By the time that time ran out I was totally hooked.
Yes there is no spec tree like most games, but the freedom of the manastone/stigma (lvl20) system really gives way more options then any trees I have played with before. I like the fact that crafted gear is superior to dropped gear of equal level for the most part, there are some rare golden item drops that are really nice. Every piece of gear can be costumized by manastones (1 for white/ 2 for green/ 3 for blue/ 4 for gold.
Most gear can have a godstone equipped furthing customization....for example 5% chance to proc blind for 8 sec..in pvp 8sec is huge imo.
Others probably know more about the PVP ranking abyss point system, but to me it feels like old school DaoC RvR only with quests to do as well as keep seige and pvp. Exp values in the abyss or higher, but its more dangerous for obvious reasons.
Lots of repeatable quests that can give heal pots, mana pots, green gear and such
The quests are your general most mmo run of the mill quests, but I havnt ran out of them and had to grind.
Combat starts very slow and you get very little skills....it gets alot better as you level I wont go into too much detail as I am only exp with the templar and gladiator to this point. But the templar has a quite a few nice skills that you have to react prety fast too to get off. There lvl 22 stigma is very nice its A taunt with a snare and pulls enemy right too your feet.
Your are pretty much forced to group at lvl 16-20 to finish your mission quests...can be skipped and come back later (much later I would think) to be soloed. I personally like this approach. Its first game I have played in a while where you cant solo all the way thru your quests and people (even on china server where I cant speak chinese) where very eager to group up for these....now if someone would explain to the chinese that tanks have an easier time getting and holding aggro if the tanks pull all would be great
I'm a bit shocked by the graphics complaints, I'm not sure if someone needs to upgrade or what. NPCs actually had two flavors for the one that mentioned that, they have geared ones that look like players (normally guards and some campaign quest givers) the rest are uniquely dressed hell I wish I could look like some of the unique ones.
Thanks to Min I got some screenshots of the more beautiful places, wish I had some that compared graphics turned down also.
Visually I have no complaint about the game...I just didn't like the system much.....I think alot of "dps' classes will make enemies of themselves early on to "tanks and healers" and I think within 3-4months of end game cookie cutter syndrome will take over and everyone will feel as if they are playing the same character as the guy next to him
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Visually I have no complaint about the game...I just didn't like the system much.....I think alot of "dps' classes will make enemies of themselves early on to "tanks and healers" and I think within 3-4months of end game cookie cutter syndrome will take over and everyone will feel as if they are playing the same character as the guy next to him
Alot of truth in that, the only thing that truely seperates people is armor dye, weapon type choice, and what they decide to slot in their armor (abyss gear goes up to 5 or 6 slots).
Now that I think of it, it is just like wow, your either arena geared or raid geared end game. Warhammer and EQ2 follow this same trend, sounds like you hate MMOs in general.
no i love MMOs i just have been severly disappointed as of lately because I haven't been able to find one that offer fun and up-to-date content without making so easy a 10 year old can do it (thanks WoW) i actually held high hopes for Aion just feel like I was promised a pony for my birthday and was brought a donkey
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Couple more things I fing really funny: 1 - everyone says the best thing Aion is the graphics. Well, thats not really true. The graphics when you really look at them are not that great.
They're not that good, the engine is nice but the design and lack of detail are omnipresent. The NPC all look alike, it's hard to find NPC when they all look like players. Simple things like unfininshed or blurry textures, wonky scenery in the cities and an overall messy feel.
The engine is good and runs great, but the graphics are very bland, they're not Guild Wars quality.
are you sure its not just your rig? i experianced non of that, but meh, game wase not for you i guess
after the announcment of FF14 i dont think il be getting this game either >.>
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option.
So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option. So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option. So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
You stated if you liked Lineage 2's grindfest you'll like this. And, I happen to like grindfests, so I'm going to like this game.
Beware everyone else, this game is just another grindfest.
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option. So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
I did play the game, lol.. Played those 2 day trying to figure out if it's worth buying or not. I had the pre-order on gamestop, until I played the game for 5min.
Item wise, economy wise, class design and graphic wise, it's simillar to Lineage2. What's similar to Wow, Quest go kill x and go get y, the flight system( roflmao it's a pure copy of wow) and the useless cinematic clip at the start of the game. So I indeed have an opinion of the game. Specially after playing lineage2 and wow, that's what it give. Like it or not.
I'll go over my impressions really fast. I'm not here to write a review, I'm not qualified to do that and I won't pretend to be, I'm just going to point out issues which bother me a lot and eventually disappointed me. I didn't expect the game to be great, but it I didn't expect it to be bad either, I was wrong, it's really not a very impressive game.
positive: *game runs very well
Personaly I had two crashes and several times the music would just hang. untill I got in a other zone or go in combat adn the music refrech itself.. *interface is nice to use
Interface is Crasp. realy it is, everyting is way to big, journal end quest discription page open takes up 75% of a 26' 1920*1018 screen..... *music is quite good Music is good indeed *graphics are ok, much less good than Aion trailers, but still not bad They are great for a mmo, east meets west style.
negative *Very standard MMO....... kills 10 of X, collect 4 of Y True, its all X*Y *No goal or reason to be there......, you feel like you're dropped into a world where you don't belong NOt true if you read the story line and watch the non so good cutscenes * text is mediocre at best.........., it's definitely translated by people not used to MMO, the language and terminology used isn't impressive You use good way of telling *Combat is very boring........... for the first 10 levels, you get very few abilities Vew abilities, but boring. no would not say that at all, think its verry personal how you feel it and class depending. As a scout/ranger you have way more to watch and do then just press a button for exsample.
*Game is a grind............, maybe I've played too many MMO, but <target mob> <kill mob> <target mob> <kill mob>..is what you'll be doing for about 4 hours non-stop to get to level 10 Its a big grind, some sayy its not, but realy it is :P. The game has a good speed at first but at lvl 14 i got stuck for a bit and at lvl 17 doing regulair quest it takes quite long to lvl up. to make it easy to count . you need about 400 mobs of same level, very quest gives you about 25-30k xp mobs give 2900 xp, level 20/21 mobs give 5500xp *NPC's did not speak to me (sound)................, maybe they will fix this, I don't know Duh ofcource not!. Korian beta version 1.0.blabla Its BETA *Players are mostly just soloing,........... no real incentive to group, maybe this will change in later levels, I don't know Its a PVP focust game, I had to group up for a few bosses, unless you skipped those quest you must have done them. There are raids in the game, just not were we could go in beta(im aware of) *Places you start in are way too small,......... too many players all dumped into starting places, you feel like a person trapped in a box
Na thats bullshit hehe, yes its a box, no its not to small. like 2000 beta people tried to do it at the same time in 3 zones of the server (instances of the server) .. thats ALOT lol *No real story..........., almost no lore, I felt lost? and it felt a bit pointless to be there Already said that, and as i said there is a bit of lore and purpose. namely PVP. all is focust to get you later in PVP.
*There's something wrong with the game's horizontal vision,..... imagine looking through a camera and missing a good part of the side view of the world, that's what it's like when playing Aion, they restrict vision to the left and right I had no problem whit that at all, it does however kinda feel like.. TCOS , both use the same engine I think and the world feels a bit boxed in. TCOS has its build in city caves, Aion world is build insite of the planet. I suspect its a engine restriction, or perhaps a strenght point, but its simulair.
If I had to give it a score? Shrug, I guess 4/10. Anyway, I hope this helps, yes it's a very negative review, but that's how I felt about the game. I would give it a 7/10 its a great game for people who like pvp and basic , fairly simple but active PvE .
Its a totaly useless game for roleplayers. (dont even look at the emotes!.)
I have a big dislike for fantacy non-rp games, but this beta got be bussy and I had fun for two full days. thats uniqe for this sort of game for Me.
Above all, ITS A BETA BETA BETA. a big B Beta. ranger skills were buggy, no sound, crapy cutscenes. and its korean version 1.0.blabla BETA.
IF and only IF NCSOFT does it right and dedicate some time to fix the buggy things, add flavor to this game it be one populair big ass game. IF they treat it as they do now whit CoX it will fail big time.
Note: NCSOFT dint make the game. its a buyer of mmo's and exploits them. there in for the monny, never forget that whit NCsoft, in manny ways they are as greedy as SOE or any big name
Omg, this system cant handle my typing, so manny errors ..im at work and lol my machine is almost breaking down when i try to edit all the yellow (mine) text so I just gona leave it, sorry for that.
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option. So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
I did play the game, lol.. Played those 2 day trying to figure out if it's worth buying or not. I had the pre-order on gamestop, until I played the game for 5min.
Item wise, economy wise, class design and graphic wise, it's simillar to Lineage2. What's similar to Wow, Quest go kill x and go get y, the flight system( roflmao it's a pure copy of wow) and the useless cinematic clip at the start of the game. So I indeed have an opinion of the game. Specially after playing lineage2 and wow, that's what it give. Like it or not.
way to hang in there for a whole 5 min's. must have been hard on you. lol
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
yeah i guess u do have to have apretty badass comp and run it in the highest resolution to appreciate it, but really thats any pc game. Even the crap low budget ones look better on the box then in the actual game at times. check out this screenshot
The thing is all mmo's are going to pretty much be the same. if u are tired grinding out in quest form or just grinding cuz you have reached a point wear u can not find quest anymore you should just stop playing Rpg's in general. I see ppl with angry post questioning why someone would put there money into it and calling it crap..why not just say the truth.... its just not for you.
Everyone like comparing things to WoW..or as i like to call it "My first mmorpg" its like the first one most ppl have ever played and yet everything tries to copy it lol. WoW is good..then u get to level 80..you get all the gear..and then u either sit and spam chat or you make another character and "grind" through everything all over again.
As far as the lineage grind, i am glad i dont ALWAYS feel like i am jogging a marathon to get to my quest location lol.
In your opinion it may not be all the hype its was played up to be, but i can honestly say the ppl that played it seem to have fun.
On a diffent note, how come no one ever mentioned that if u are getting mobbed on and someone comes to help, the person that did the most damage gets the loot. and exp is shared. another thing is theres actually a sense of range and distance and that weapons actually decrease or increase the player's hit box. I love the animations and an item being soul bound is in itself epic...what the hell are those giant flying things in the sky. and the freakish elephant things.
Flight was a bit clunky, not explained really well either...r is up, f is down, i had to go in option to figure out how to take off. Surprisingly in flight mode the 'space bar' flaps wings and increases fligh speed but does not make you ascend...making it nothing like wow's flying mounts..but still if you think it is how else can you fly...keep a flight stick by your comp?
Ive tried em all out and so far from 1-11 i have had fun with Aion, usually in the mid 30's korean games become grind fests..so i guess ill just have to wait and see on the next beta
Oh for ppl that dont know...just because a game is full of quest telling u to kill x number of things for x number of items and gather x number of this object does not make it less of a grind fest...its just a grind fest with purpose
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option. So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
You stated if you liked Lineage 2's grindfest you'll like this. And, I happen to like grindfests, so I'm going to like this game.
Beware everyone else, this game is just another grindfest.
lvl30 in one month 3/5th of the way there.......too much wow are you !
please if your gonna state facts please try to get to end game before posting it....thanks.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans.
I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise.
Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore.
Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother.
Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things.
Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off.
Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans. I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise. Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore. Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother. Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things. Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off. Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans. I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise. Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore. Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother. Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things. Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off. Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Wow what a constructive and mature way to respond, since you do the foot work I'll finish it up.
TLDR version
Go back to WoW, CoH, WaR, FF11, or whatever game you feel the most conformtable with. If you don't like it you don't like it, no point in trying so hard to see flaws in the game and convince others your the sane one.
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans. I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise. Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore. Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother. Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things. Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off. Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the GAME runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or Mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality PCs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Okay as far as my comment on DF fans and Aion fans, that stems from reading all the posts on both forums, as soon as anyone has any type of negative opinion, they get their asses ripped for it, sorry that's just plain childish. Was it immature, to you i guess, to me it was stating an observation.
Of course i expect to be learning the game for at least a few levels, but that doesn't mean it has to be boring as hell does it? So yeah i will have to wait for a trial because honestly i'm not gonna waste my money and crap anymore.
As for reading reviews of people playing, its nice to see their opinions, good or bad, but i have to judge it for myself, we all have different tastes.
As for my post i have yet to try the game at all so i have no opinion of it good or bad, the things i have stated are from what i have read on my own. While the swimming thing bugs me that doesn't mean it would keep me from playing, after all i love jumping in games but my first mmo didn't have that and it didn't kill me to play it.
I'll have to wait for a trial, game companies don't get my money anymore unless i can decide on my own if they are worth my time or not.
As for my post seeming trollish, it only seems that way to people who don't understand what trolling is, as i said people scream troll when they don't like what someone else has to say which is sad. If people are looking for just good postive posts they should probably stick with the actual Aion sites forums, while i think there can be too much negativity around here somtimes, i beleive this is a better place to see all sides of people Opinions.
Oh and i never post out of emotion, i know typing things comes out wrong to some people, i only got worked up over a game once and that won't happen again.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans. I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise. Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore. Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother. Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things. Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off. Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Wow what a constructive and mature way to respond, since you do the foot work I'll finish it up.
TLDR version
Go back to WoW, CoH, WaR, FF11, or whatever game you feel the most conformtable with. If you don't like it you don't like it, no point in trying so hard to see flaws in the game and convince others your the sane one.
See Tbj28 this person just proved me correct, funny thing eh.
Everyone is the enemy because they don't love the game as much as they do.
I havn't even tried the game to see if i like it or not, i simply pointed out things that bug me..but omg that is bad!
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Much whine about how bad this game is from people that make *cough* 1-5 POSTS before. If you think there is no storyline in Aion you might wanna learn to read the quests.
Grindfest? Erhh did you stay in starter zone and pressed tab and attack for 1 hour then decided it was bad?
Quests? The quests are not just kill 10 of that, if you would have played more than passed level 5.
New Skills? If you would play passed level 5 yes..
Storyline? Hell yeah if you can read english ...
Boring combat? Nope since you got combo system plus have to use different skills sometimes depending on opponent.
Looks like wow-manga? Erh what are you smoking?
Custom you avatar? Yes Very detailed
And for the rest of the I think the game sux and I only needed to play to level 5 to find out, I am happy you will not be in Aion
And for the people I like, that means people that really try games and dont listen to what others say. Try it and find out !
Comments
My impressions from the beta were great. The only reason I stopped playing before the Closed Beta ended is so that when the account gets wiped I will be less upsetby lost progress
.
The graphics are good. Gameplay is fun. Storyline (if you read it) keeps you interested. The music for some reason I enjoy a lot. Character customization is very detailed. It's an overall good game that is in it's beginning stages and will continue to become a better one because NCsoft is ready to get serious.
For those who have not played the beta and are looking forward to trying it out, don't let the negative threads derail you. Try it out, read the quests, and don't look for little errors in the game. There will always be an mmo that doesn't suit every mmo fan, hence the creation of several.
Thank God it was a only 2 days beta. Damn! I got bored on the first, lol!
No skill or stats customization... thats cheap!
This game has very low action... even less than other grinding mmos.
Ignore the troll behind the curtain. He didn't bother to learn about the game since Stigma's aren't unlocked until higher level. you would also think that the ability to add HP/MP/Evasion/dmg/Str and just about anything under the sun to every piece of gear you own might, just might, allow you to adjust your stats as you see fit.....
They're not that good, the engine is nice but the design and lack of detail are omnipresent. The NPC all look alike, it's hard to find NPC when they all look like players. Simple things like unfininshed or blurry textures, wonky scenery in the cities and an overall messy feel.
The engine is good and runs great, but the graphics are very bland, they're not Guild Wars quality.
the only thing i am disppointed about with Aion is the ability to create names with any combination of alpanumeric/symbols/spaces. they need to rid of this in final release makes shit look sloppy and can be confusing when inviting ppl to groups. other than that i had a great time in open beta weekend.
I am playing on the china version of this game. I as well thought this game was polished and bug free, but nothing that hasnt been done before. But it was free to start and spent hours D/L and getting english patch ect.....
Around lvl 8 my free time ran out.....I really wanted to atleast get to 10 and check out the Gladiator so I bought 10 units of game time (about 20 hours) for around $2. By the time that time ran out I was totally hooked.
Yes there is no spec tree like most games, but the freedom of the manastone/stigma (lvl20) system really gives way more options then any trees I have played with before. I like the fact that crafted gear is superior to dropped gear of equal level for the most part, there are some rare golden item drops that are really nice. Every piece of gear can be costumized by manastones (1 for white/ 2 for green/ 3 for blue/ 4 for gold.
Most gear can have a godstone equipped furthing customization....for example 5% chance to proc blind for 8 sec..in pvp 8sec is huge imo.
Others probably know more about the PVP ranking abyss point system, but to me it feels like old school DaoC RvR only with quests to do as well as keep seige and pvp. Exp values in the abyss or higher, but its more dangerous for obvious reasons.
Lots of repeatable quests that can give heal pots, mana pots, green gear and such
The quests are your general most mmo run of the mill quests, but I havnt ran out of them and had to grind.
Combat starts very slow and you get very little skills....it gets alot better as you level I wont go into too much detail as I am only exp with the templar and gladiator to this point. But the templar has a quite a few nice skills that you have to react prety fast too to get off. There lvl 22 stigma is very nice its A taunt with a snare and pulls enemy right too your feet.
Your are pretty much forced to group at lvl 16-20 to finish your mission quests...can be skipped and come back later (much later I would think) to be soloed. I personally like this approach. Its first game I have played in a while where you cant solo all the way thru your quests and people (even on china server where I cant speak chinese) where very eager to group up for these....now if someone would explain to the chinese that tanks have an easier time getting and holding aggro if the tanks pull all would be great
I'm a bit shocked by the graphics complaints, I'm not sure if someone needs to upgrade or what. NPCs actually had two flavors for the one that mentioned that, they have geared ones that look like players (normally guards and some campaign quest givers) the rest are uniquely dressed hell I wish I could look like some of the unique ones.
Thanks to Min I got some screenshots of the more beautiful places, wish I had some that compared graphics turned down also.
Visually I have no complaint about the game...I just didn't like the system much.....I think alot of "dps' classes will make enemies of themselves early on to "tanks and healers" and I think within 3-4months of end game cookie cutter syndrome will take over and everyone will feel as if they are playing the same character as the guy next to him
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Alot of truth in that, the only thing that truely seperates people is armor dye, weapon type choice, and what they decide to slot in their armor (abyss gear goes up to 5 or 6 slots).
Now that I think of it, it is just like wow, your either arena geared or raid geared end game. Warhammer and EQ2 follow this same trend, sounds like you hate MMOs in general.
no i love MMOs i just have been severly disappointed as of lately because I haven't been able to find one that offer fun and up-to-date content without making so easy a 10 year old can do it (thanks WoW) i actually held high hopes for Aion just feel like I was promised a pony for my birthday and was brought a donkey
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
They're not that good, the engine is nice but the design and lack of detail are omnipresent. The NPC all look alike, it's hard to find NPC when they all look like players. Simple things like unfininshed or blurry textures, wonky scenery in the cities and an overall messy feel.
The engine is good and runs great, but the graphics are very bland, they're not Guild Wars quality.
are you sure its not just your rig? i experianced non of that, but meh, game wase not for you i guess
after the announcment of FF14 i dont think il be getting this game either >.>
dam you SE
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
Disappointed? Lol, did you have much hope for this? It's just a korean compagny trying to copy on wow and do what they're best to do. Grind to make money. Aion is a failed attepmt to copy wow and add lineage2 gameplay in. Money is easy to make, but everything cost a shitload, it's a grindfeast, sucky skill and not many too. Graphic are on the boreline. Sigh, The only goood thing, if I can say good, was the character creation with all it option.
So if you liked Lineage2 with it's grindfeast, you'll like this. If you liked wow for it's quest grindage and oh it's starting cinematic! You'll like this. Beside that, I don't see much comparison to Wow lol. Man only good game Ncsoft made was auto assault haha
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
You stated if you liked Lineage 2's grindfest you'll like this. And, I happen to like grindfests, so I'm going to like this game.
Beware everyone else, this game is just another grindfest.
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
I did play the game, lol.. Played those 2 day trying to figure out if it's worth buying or not. I had the pre-order on gamestop, until I played the game for 5min.
Item wise, economy wise, class design and graphic wise, it's simillar to Lineage2. What's similar to Wow, Quest go kill x and go get y, the flight system( roflmao it's a pure copy of wow) and the useless cinematic clip at the start of the game. So I indeed have an opinion of the game. Specially after playing lineage2 and wow, that's what it give. Like it or not.
Omg, this system cant handle my typing, so manny errors ..im at work and lol my machine is almost breaking down when i try to edit all the yellow (mine) text so I just gona leave it, sorry for that.
Nothing like WoW....nothing like Lineage 2 you have to have play the game to have an opinion
I did play the game, lol.. Played those 2 day trying to figure out if it's worth buying or not. I had the pre-order on gamestop, until I played the game for 5min.
Item wise, economy wise, class design and graphic wise, it's simillar to Lineage2. What's similar to Wow, Quest go kill x and go get y, the flight system( roflmao it's a pure copy of wow) and the useless cinematic clip at the start of the game. So I indeed have an opinion of the game. Specially after playing lineage2 and wow, that's what it give. Like it or not.
way to hang in there for a whole 5 min's. must have been hard on you. lol
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
yeah i guess u do have to have apretty badass comp and run it in the highest resolution to appreciate it, but really thats any pc game. Even the crap low budget ones look better on the box then in the actual game at times. check out this screenshot
c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/91/l_606a7328a94f4041b3e432af08073b40.jpg
The thing is all mmo's are going to pretty much be the same. if u are tired grinding out in quest form or just grinding cuz you have reached a point wear u can not find quest anymore you should just stop playing Rpg's in general. I see ppl with angry post questioning why someone would put there money into it and calling it crap..why not just say the truth.... its just not for you.
Everyone like comparing things to WoW..or as i like to call it "My first mmorpg" its like the first one most ppl have ever played and yet everything tries to copy it lol. WoW is good..then u get to level 80..you get all the gear..and then u either sit and spam chat or you make another character and "grind" through everything all over again.
As far as the lineage grind, i am glad i dont ALWAYS feel like i am jogging a marathon to get to my quest location lol.
In your opinion it may not be all the hype its was played up to be, but i can honestly say the ppl that played it seem to have fun.
On a diffent note, how come no one ever mentioned that if u are getting mobbed on and someone comes to help, the person that did the most damage gets the loot. and exp is shared. another thing is theres actually a sense of range and distance and that weapons actually decrease or increase the player's hit box. I love the animations and an item being soul bound is in itself epic...what the hell are those giant flying things in the sky. and the freakish elephant things.
Flight was a bit clunky, not explained really well either...r is up, f is down, i had to go in option to figure out how to take off. Surprisingly in flight mode the 'space bar' flaps wings and increases fligh speed but does not make you ascend...making it nothing like wow's flying mounts..but still if you think it is how else can you fly...keep a flight stick by your comp?
Ive tried em all out and so far from 1-11 i have had fun with Aion, usually in the mid 30's korean games become grind fests..so i guess ill just have to wait and see on the next beta
Oh for ppl that dont know...just because a game is full of quest telling u to kill x number of things for x number of items and gather x number of this object does not make it less of a grind fest...its just a grind fest with purpose
You stated if you liked Lineage 2's grindfest you'll like this. And, I happen to like grindfests, so I'm going to like this game.
Beware everyone else, this game is just another grindfest.
lvl30 in one month 3/5th of the way there.......too much wow are you !
please if your gonna state facts please try to get to end game before posting it....thanks.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Seems the Aion fans are as bad as the Darkfall fans.
I do hope they have a trial after it launches, i won't bother otherwise.
Also i'm pretty much tired of the its a beta excuse, from what i have seen lately these games rarely change much from their beta's so i don't buy that excuse anymore.
Also tired of the "game starts at this lvl" excuse, the goddamn game needs to be fun from the get go or i won't even bother.
Also if there is too much grinding i won't bother with it, i hate too much grinding, there needs to be other things in the game so you can take a break from things.
Already the zoning thing is putting me off and the fact that you can't swim is bugging me. To some this may be petty but i personally hate those things so they are a put off.
Also people are pissing me off not understanding what trolling is, stop using the word just because you don't like what someone else thinks.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Wow what a constructive and mature way to respond, since you do the foot work I'll finish it up.
TLDR version
Go back to WoW, CoH, WaR, FF11, or whatever game you feel the most conformtable with. If you don't like it you don't like it, no point in trying so hard to see flaws in the game and convince others your the sane one.
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the GAME runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or Mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality PCs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Okay as far as my comment on DF fans and Aion fans, that stems from reading all the posts on both forums, as soon as anyone has any type of negative opinion, they get their asses ripped for it, sorry that's just plain childish. Was it immature, to you i guess, to me it was stating an observation.
Of course i expect to be learning the game for at least a few levels, but that doesn't mean it has to be boring as hell does it? So yeah i will have to wait for a trial because honestly i'm not gonna waste my money and crap anymore.
As for reading reviews of people playing, its nice to see their opinions, good or bad, but i have to judge it for myself, we all have different tastes.
As for my post i have yet to try the game at all so i have no opinion of it good or bad, the things i have stated are from what i have read on my own. While the swimming thing bugs me that doesn't mean it would keep me from playing, after all i love jumping in games but my first mmo didn't have that and it didn't kill me to play it.
I'll have to wait for a trial, game companies don't get my money anymore unless i can decide on my own if they are worth my time or not.
As for my post seeming trollish, it only seems that way to people who don't understand what trolling is, as i said people scream troll when they don't like what someone else has to say which is sad. If people are looking for just good postive posts they should probably stick with the actual Aion sites forums, while i think there can be too much negativity around here somtimes, i beleive this is a better place to see all sides of people Opinions.
Oh and i never post out of emotion, i know typing things comes out wrong to some people, i only got worked up over a game once and that won't happen again.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Scalebane, the way you write makes you seem rather trollish and very unfriendly so you cant really blame people from reacting bad to you. First you bash Aion fans and DF fans, why did you feel the need to do this ? id say this is very immature way to start a post. And this was pure stress test called beta with limits so people could get to see a portion of it also to see how well the game runs on their PCs.
Dont hold your breath on a trial very soon after release, but of course i cant blame you for holding back after the recent bad releases of War/AoC but you could try to be more fair and try to take in the reviews from many players and take it from there with a grain of salt. And what did you expect from lvl 1? the first lvls in a MMO is always about learning te basic of a game and to get you into it without overpowering you with too much at once, hence MMOs start a little slow. MMOs will always have grinding weather its quests or mobs its a huge part of what makes the genre, what matters is do you have fun and enjoy the game while doing it ? if the quests are good enough it wont feel like a grind but with good story and lore its like reading a interactive book.
People have said zoning is extremly fast on even low quality pcs so cant see why you complain about this. Its impossible to have 1 huge game world with massive pvp, no real servers can handle that in MMOs. And i agree the swimming part is somewhat annoying but really its only a tiny part that probaly get a patch at one point.
When i see your post i only see 1 way critic and nothing fair or positive arguments from you so of course people wont respond to you very well, remember when you critic anything you gotta do it with a open mind so people can take what you write serious.
I whould recommend you to just wait a week or two after release in EU/US and see what the reviews says before you decide anything sens that what seem to fit you best, but try to relaxe abit and choose your words abit better when writing your opinion.
Wow what a constructive and mature way to respond, since you do the foot work I'll finish it up.
TLDR version
Go back to WoW, CoH, WaR, FF11, or whatever game you feel the most conformtable with. If you don't like it you don't like it, no point in trying so hard to see flaws in the game and convince others your the sane one.
See Tbj28 this person just proved me correct, funny thing eh.
Everyone is the enemy because they don't love the game as much as they do.
I havn't even tried the game to see if i like it or not, i simply pointed out things that bug me..but omg that is bad!
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Much whine about how bad this game is from people that make *cough* 1-5 POSTS before. If you think there is no storyline in Aion you might wanna learn to read the quests.
Grindfest? Erhh did you stay in starter zone and pressed tab and attack for 1 hour then decided it was bad?
Quests? The quests are not just kill 10 of that, if you would have played more than passed level 5.
New Skills? If you would play passed level 5 yes..
Storyline? Hell yeah if you can read english ...
Boring combat? Nope since you got combo system plus have to use different skills sometimes depending on opponent.
Looks like wow-manga? Erh what are you smoking?
Custom you avatar? Yes Very detailed
And for the rest of the I think the game sux and I only needed to play to level 5 to find out, I am happy you will not be in Aion
And for the people I like, that means people that really try games and dont listen to what others say. Try it and find out !