why not just go to headquarters with burning torches? i understand people being angry and upset, but just move on...no need to be evil bastards and hope people go down! so sad that people take these little things to heart so much. i wish you could swap shoes with me for just a day....you would see what the real world is like and experience real problems, then you wouldn't worry about "spilt milk" so much. Darkfall must be something special though to make such an impression on so many lives!
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
why not just go to headquarters with burning torches? i understand people being angry and upset, but just move on...no need to be evil bastards and hope people go down! so sad that people take these little things to heart so much. i wish you could swap shoes with me for just a day....you would see what the real world is like and experience real problems, then you wouldn't worry about "spilt milk" so much. Darkfall must be something special though to make such an impression on so many lives!
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
Complain by all means friend. I feel you have a right too. and l also feel for the people who are arguing a valid point.
What i dont understand is how you dont see a difference in making you're concerns vocal! and "dancing for joy" when companys fail...whci have employed staff working for them who have familys of thier own, and bills etc like the rest of us.
They are human too
I am not saying you personaly friend but the frenzied hate mob calling for AV's heads. Admittedly there is also a very vocally frenzied fan mob too who are equally out of order. I just wish we could bring things into perspective a bit and realise what has gone on here. To me a very inexperienced team have created a game that promised so much and delivered little of those promises by a company who lack PR skills and any form of comunication skills. I really dont think they conspired from the start to lie or steal....i think they just got it wrong.
I myself have been wrong so many times in my life and can stand up and admit it. i can also forgive others for making mistakes. But i really dont think i have the right to judge! put forth an opinion yes...but judge...nothing gives me that right.
why not just go to headquarters with burning torches? i understand people being angry and upset, but just move on...no need to be evil bastards and hope people go down! so sad that people take these little things to heart so much. i wish you could swap shoes with me for just a day....you would see what the real world is like and experience real problems, then you wouldn't worry about "spilt milk" so much. Darkfall must be something special though to make such an impression on so many lives!
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
Complain by all means friend. I feel you have a right too. and l also feel for the people who are arguing a valid point.
What i dont understand is how you dont see a difference in making you're concerns vocal! and "dancing for joy" when companys fail...whci have employed staff working for them who have familys of thier own, and bills etc like the rest of us.
They are human too
I am not saying you personaly friend but the frenzied hate mob calling for AV's heads. Admittedly there is also a very vocally frenzied fan mob too who are equally out of order. I just wish we could bring things into perspective a bit and realise what has gone on here. To me a very inexperienced team have created a game that promised so much and delivered little of those promises by a company who lack PR skills and any form of comunication skills. I really dont think they conspired from the start to lie or steal....i think they just got it wrong.
I myself have been wrong so many times in my life and can stand up and admit it. i can also forgive others for making mistakes. But i really dont think i have the right to judge! put forth an opinion yes...but judge...nothing gives me that right.
I see your point, and, from a distanced, theoretical point of view, I could even agree with it.
However, being somebody who suffered ignominious paid services more than once, I can relate to people who had emotional investment and expectations in this game, only to be misled and gypped by AV. Humans are, after all, beings of emotion and instinct, when dealing with primal rage and disappointment. That's why husbands shoot their wives, employees stab employers, etc, etc. Those extremes are not common, but they happen with enough frequency to tell us something about the human nature.
I can guarantee you that if I had paid 50 Euros (30% of the minimum wage in the country I live in) for DFO, now I would be studying black magic to make something nasty happen with the genitals of those who work at Aventurine. I would be totally gleeful when reading every little bit of loss or problem happening to the company.
Why? Because I would have a feeling of poetic justice, and these things would make me feel a little vindicated, after all. May be petty, but it's very human.
Angry posts made me question the game and wait for an opportunity to try the game before buying it. When I could do that, I was glad i did. Those angry people saved me 50 Euros and untold gastric ulcers, God bless them.
In the end of the day, satisfying costumers and making a good product is Aventurine's problem. If even they are not interested in doing that, why would anyone?
Hope I explained my views adequately. Thanks for the good post above. Good to see that people can still debate without using the old jargons and namecalling frequent in these forums.
So the bottom line is ... you don't have to pay a cent extra to keep playing where you started your character, and if you are worried about the cost you just ... keep playing where you play now and transfer for free later? Gee, reality check people. With the state of the game, it's actually a little surprising that there wasn't an announcement "sorry, we sold the game. Server wipe tomorrow. If you want to play at all you need to buy a new account from Darkfall 2 Ltd. Bye bye, love and hugs, Tasos".
It is ironic to see the wails of fury and anguish, when other posts have lamented that the problem with Darkfall is its current player base. This is clearly one way (albeit granted not a nice one in any respect) to "quarinteen" a lot of the current players on the server they are on right now, safely away from the new and potentially lucrative market. People have called DF the 'pay to play beta' for ages, guess we now see the truth in that - you need to buy the NA account if you want to play the real thing at launch :P
That said, I don't have any patience for games companies that break faith with their own players - there has been just far too much of that with SoE and a few others in the industry over the past few years. Who knows, if enough people cancel, then they may yet dump-sell the rights - and then "your account is no longer valid. Bye bye, love and hugs, the liquidators".
yes i can see both sides of this and there are two sides. Again i can agree with you that human nature is capable of these things and that as you point out, it's very common. But being a father i have to learn to keep these things inside my head and act in a different manner. As i am sure you would also do if you were actually in the situation you stated.
I am sure you would feel like torching thier place if you could, but listening to your reasoning, i think you would keep it inside your head if you really had the chance. you would vocalise it yes but i am sure if you had choice you would not wish harm on any of the personel involved. ok make them see what they did wrong! but i dont feel it's the correct way to go to wish any of them financial difficulty or anything more.
Please dont get me wrong! it is good to discuss with gamers like yourself and the players i am talking about are not reasonable, intellegent players like yourself ( not that i can judge thier intellect ) but the ones that refuse to look at both side's. And i mean the die hard fanes too.
What i dont understand is how you dont see a difference in making you're concerns vocal! and "dancing for joy" when companys fail...whci have employed staff working for them who have familys of thier own, and bills etc like the rest of us. They are human too
They may be human but if they haven't realized the people they're working for are dumber than a box of rocks and bolted for the door by now I'm not sure they deserve any sympathy. When this thing goes under, and there's every indiction it will, I won't dance for joy simply because I can't be bothered to give a damn. You do have to wonder how people this clueless can scratch up that much money to piss away.
I think you have just hit the nail on the head as far as what i am trying to say. you sound more like an example of what i mean. You wont jump for joy because you simply can't be bothered to give a damn....just like me with hellgate london..i didn't think it was a good game at all so i just left and never posted about it...i didn't care for the game so why post. you have made you're comment and moved on!
So the bottom line is ... you don't have to pay a cent extra to keep playing where you started your character, and if you are worried about the cost you just ... keep playing where you play now and transfer for free later? Gee, reality check people. With the state of the game, it's actually a little surprising that there wasn't an announcement "sorry, we sold the game. Server wipe tomorrow. If you want to play at all you need to buy a new account from Darkfall 2 Ltd. Bye bye, love and hugs, Tasos". It is ironic to see the wails of fury and anguish, when other posts have lamented that the problem with Darkfall is its current player base. This is clearly one way (albeit granted not a nice one in any respect) to "quarinteen" a lot of the current players on the server they are on right now, safely away from the new and potentially lucrative market. People have called DF the 'pay to play beta' for ages, guess we now see the truth in that - you need to buy the NA account if you want to play the real thing at launch :P That said, I don't have any patience for games companies that break faith with their own players - there has been just far too much of that with SoE and a few others in the industry over the past few years. Who knows, if enough people cancel, then they may yet dump-sell the rights - and then "your account is no longer valid. Bye bye, love and hugs, the liquidators".
I high-lighted the part above that is incorrect.
Here is the quote from Tasos on that part:
"On the American server: The American server will launch on July 7th. Characters from the European server can be cloned and moved without their possessions 3 months after the American launch. Certain restrictions and charges will apply, to be announced at a later date."
See that is part of the problem. Those that MIGHT want to wait and transfer later have no idea how much it will cost and what "certain restrictions" will be applied to their characters when they can transfer.
They don't want to spend the next 3 months skilling up their characters only to find out at the time of transfer that there will be a skill-cap imposed on transfer.
It's already a given that the characters will be transfered over naked, but there has been no word on skill levels, spell levels, etc.
Anyway, with the past history of ambiguity from Tasos and Aventurine; you can probably appreciate the current level of uneasiness that players have in ASSUMING anything that is not specifically spelled out.
So, players that might want to transfer in 3 months are just going to un-sub until they find out those answers. Really, what choice do they have?
I'm not surprised they would do a thing like this. Look at the official Aventurine website, it's LOL. They can't even design a proper website and yet all these people bought this game. http://aventurine.gr/
your post was a bit confusing, first you are talking about characters transfers in wow, then you say soe charges...maybe should have been more clear.
to be fair mate i did break them into different lines.
and the points were all to do with posts that have been made in this thread.
Somone stated that other companys dont charge so i just checked on what i know. Being a EQ vet and played eq2,VG etc i checked Soe, and they do charge.
I knew i had an account set up for wow so i tried to log into the USA client after downloading it by mistake....just typed wow clients in and didnt really check the link ( ye i know i'm stupid ) i couldn't log into it which is when i found it out to be the USA client and remembered this thread. so i looked into it more and found that it was because i didn't have a USA account. this is confusing me because some are saying you can log into EU with a USA account? i physically couldn't. but then someone else has also stated since in another thread, or maybe this one, that if you change a few lines in some code you can...not sure if that is legal or not though
But all the things i mentioned were mentioned in this thread
Irrelevant..!
EQ & WoW's NA or EU servers are choosable by having an active account. You can make a character on any and all of the servers. If you wish to MOVE a character, there is a fee.
Tasos is tryng to trick and swindle ignorant newcomers, like the many who are playing DFO currently, into buying another game account, so they can play on the NA-1 server. Because it was first stated, it didn't matter if you bought the game in Feb or later, as you would still be able to make a char on the NA server, if/when it was opened.
That is no longer the case, as now you have a choice, to delete your char from one server and make a new one, move that char or play on the EU-1 server.
You will not be able to have two character, (one of each server) as Tasos had implied months ago.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Comments
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
Complain by all means friend. I feel you have a right too. and l also feel for the people who are arguing a valid point.
What i dont understand is how you dont see a difference in making you're concerns vocal! and "dancing for joy" when companys fail...whci have employed staff working for them who have familys of thier own, and bills etc like the rest of us.
They are human too
I am not saying you personaly friend but the frenzied hate mob calling for AV's heads. Admittedly there is also a very vocally frenzied fan mob too who are equally out of order. I just wish we could bring things into perspective a bit and realise what has gone on here. To me a very inexperienced team have created a game that promised so much and delivered little of those promises by a company who lack PR skills and any form of comunication skills. I really dont think they conspired from the start to lie or steal....i think they just got it wrong.
I myself have been wrong so many times in my life and can stand up and admit it. i can also forgive others for making mistakes. But i really dont think i have the right to judge! put forth an opinion yes...but judge...nothing gives me that right.
AV, greedy people.
Yes, but not the "special" you are thinking about, probably
If you feel slighted, you have all reason to shout and protest. If more people understood that, the power of word-of-mouth and bad marketing among the target audience, maybe more companies would think twice before boxing crap at premium price.
I can understand not wanting to take part in the discussionor controversy. However, I can't understand people complaining about their exercise of basic consumer rights, e.g. complain or praise about a product or service.
Complain by all means friend. I feel you have a right too. and l also feel for the people who are arguing a valid point.
What i dont understand is how you dont see a difference in making you're concerns vocal! and "dancing for joy" when companys fail...whci have employed staff working for them who have familys of thier own, and bills etc like the rest of us.
They are human too
I am not saying you personaly friend but the frenzied hate mob calling for AV's heads. Admittedly there is also a very vocally frenzied fan mob too who are equally out of order. I just wish we could bring things into perspective a bit and realise what has gone on here. To me a very inexperienced team have created a game that promised so much and delivered little of those promises by a company who lack PR skills and any form of comunication skills. I really dont think they conspired from the start to lie or steal....i think they just got it wrong.
I myself have been wrong so many times in my life and can stand up and admit it. i can also forgive others for making mistakes. But i really dont think i have the right to judge! put forth an opinion yes...but judge...nothing gives me that right.
I see your point, and, from a distanced, theoretical point of view, I could even agree with it.
However, being somebody who suffered ignominious paid services more than once, I can relate to people who had emotional investment and expectations in this game, only to be misled and gypped by AV. Humans are, after all, beings of emotion and instinct, when dealing with primal rage and disappointment. That's why husbands shoot their wives, employees stab employers, etc, etc. Those extremes are not common, but they happen with enough frequency to tell us something about the human nature.
I can guarantee you that if I had paid 50 Euros (30% of the minimum wage in the country I live in) for DFO, now I would be studying black magic to make something nasty happen with the genitals of those who work at Aventurine. I would be totally gleeful when reading every little bit of loss or problem happening to the company.
Why? Because I would have a feeling of poetic justice, and these things would make me feel a little vindicated, after all. May be petty, but it's very human.
Angry posts made me question the game and wait for an opportunity to try the game before buying it. When I could do that, I was glad i did. Those angry people saved me 50 Euros and untold gastric ulcers, God bless them.
In the end of the day, satisfying costumers and making a good product is Aventurine's problem. If even they are not interested in doing that, why would anyone?
Hope I explained my views adequately. Thanks for the good post above. Good to see that people can still debate without using the old jargons and namecalling frequent in these forums.
So the bottom line is ... you don't have to pay a cent extra to keep playing where you started your character, and if you are worried about the cost you just ... keep playing where you play now and transfer for free later? Gee, reality check people. With the state of the game, it's actually a little surprising that there wasn't an announcement "sorry, we sold the game. Server wipe tomorrow. If you want to play at all you need to buy a new account from Darkfall 2 Ltd. Bye bye, love and hugs, Tasos".
It is ironic to see the wails of fury and anguish, when other posts have lamented that the problem with Darkfall is its current player base. This is clearly one way (albeit granted not a nice one in any respect) to "quarinteen" a lot of the current players on the server they are on right now, safely away from the new and potentially lucrative market. People have called DF the 'pay to play beta' for ages, guess we now see the truth in that - you need to buy the NA account if you want to play the real thing at launch :P
That said, I don't have any patience for games companies that break faith with their own players - there has been just far too much of that with SoE and a few others in the industry over the past few years. Who knows, if enough people cancel, then they may yet dump-sell the rights - and then "your account is no longer valid. Bye bye, love and hugs, the liquidators".
yes i can see both sides of this and there are two sides. Again i can agree with you that human nature is capable of these things and that as you point out, it's very common. But being a father i have to learn to keep these things inside my head and act in a different manner. As i am sure you would also do if you were actually in the situation you stated.
I am sure you would feel like torching thier place if you could, but listening to your reasoning, i think you would keep it inside your head if you really had the chance. you would vocalise it yes but i am sure if you had choice you would not wish harm on any of the personel involved. ok make them see what they did wrong! but i dont feel it's the correct way to go to wish any of them financial difficulty or anything more.
Please dont get me wrong! it is good to discuss with gamers like yourself and the players i am talking about are not reasonable, intellegent players like yourself ( not that i can judge thier intellect ) but the ones that refuse to look at both side's. And i mean the die hard fanes too.
They may be human but if they haven't realized the people they're working for are dumber than a box of rocks and bolted for the door by now I'm not sure they deserve any sympathy. When this thing goes under, and there's every indiction it will, I won't dance for joy simply because I can't be bothered to give a damn. You do have to wonder how people this clueless can scratch up that much money to piss away.
I think you have just hit the nail on the head as far as what i am trying to say. you sound more like an example of what i mean. You wont jump for joy because you simply can't be bothered to give a damn....just like me with hellgate london..i didn't think it was a good game at all so i just left and never posted about it...i didn't care for the game so why post. you have made you're comment and moved on!
I high-lighted the part above that is incorrect.
Here is the quote from Tasos on that part:
"On the American server: The American server will launch on July 7th. Characters from the European server can be cloned and moved without their possessions 3 months after the American launch. Certain restrictions and charges will apply, to be announced at a later date."
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
See that is part of the problem. Those that MIGHT want to wait and transfer later have no idea how much it will cost and what "certain restrictions" will be applied to their characters when they can transfer.
They don't want to spend the next 3 months skilling up their characters only to find out at the time of transfer that there will be a skill-cap imposed on transfer.
It's already a given that the characters will be transfered over naked, but there has been no word on skill levels, spell levels, etc.
Anyway, with the past history of ambiguity from Tasos and Aventurine; you can probably appreciate the current level of uneasiness that players have in ASSUMING anything that is not specifically spelled out.
So, players that might want to transfer in 3 months are just going to un-sub until they find out those answers. Really, what choice do they have?
I'm not surprised they would do a thing like this. Look at the official Aventurine website, it's LOL. They can't even design a proper website and yet all these people bought this game. http://aventurine.gr/
to be fair mate i did break them into different lines.
and the points were all to do with posts that have been made in this thread.
Somone stated that other companys dont charge so i just checked on what i know. Being a EQ vet and played eq2,VG etc i checked Soe, and they do charge.
I knew i had an account set up for wow so i tried to log into the USA client after downloading it by mistake....just typed wow clients in and didnt really check the link
( ye i know i'm stupid ) i couldn't log into it which is when i found it out to be the USA client and remembered this thread. so i looked into it more and found that it was because i didn't have a USA account. this is confusing me because some are saying you can log into EU with a USA account? i physically couldn't. but then someone else has also stated since in another thread, or maybe this one, that if you change a few lines in some code you can...not sure if that is legal or not though 
But all the things i mentioned were mentioned in this thread
Irrelevant..!
EQ & WoW's NA or EU servers are choosable by having an active account. You can make a character on any and all of the servers. If you wish to MOVE a character, there is a fee.
Tasos is tryng to trick and swindle ignorant newcomers, like the many who are playing DFO currently, into buying another game account, so they can play on the NA-1 server. Because it was first stated, it didn't matter if you bought the game in Feb or later, as you would still be able to make a char on the NA server, if/when it was opened.
That is no longer the case, as now you have a choice, to delete your char from one server and make a new one, move that char or play on the EU-1 server.
You will not be able to have two character, (one of each server) as Tasos had implied months ago.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Love the game, but don't want to buy it again. Canceled!