I just started playing again last week with the free vet trial thing and I will tell you that the population on my old server is dead. I roamed around actively looking for people and I came across a grand total of 1. Granted, my old server, Intrepid, is one of the transfer from servers but its a far cry as to what it was back before the nge. Anyone who says theres more people playing today "than ever before" is either clueless or being dishonest.
Some "Transfer from" servers have retained a small passionate and dedicated community, some haven't.
I noticed you posted on the official Intrepid forum and hooked up with some old friends, did you head to Starsider on your other characters in the end or some other server?
Weird that you say its better then ever, I just went back for the free 30 days and guess what not a soul in sight. This game is dead, let it die and get over yourself.
It helps if you open your eyes when you play. you would see other players! I think your the one that needs to "get over" your self. and get over the fact that this game is not going anywhere
It doesn't matter. The fact is, you will never, ever be able to brag about how huge the playerbase is. You'll never be able to call SWG a game that "everyone's playing". You'll never be able to call SOE a "trustworthy company". More people will hesitate before paying SOE any money than not. You go back to your game, such as it is, and you enjoy yourself with your friends, such as they are. Eventually, SOE will do something that will cause some of them to leave, and you will mock them too. And they will wonder, as do I, just exactly how much punishment you can take.
Oh, and ummax - that is music to my ears, if it's even true. If a division as poorly run as SOE is the most profitable division in Sony, they are due for a bankruptcy soon. I will sleep well tonight.
Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be. Oh well such is life.
LoL... So you were at your bank, in England, doing stuff with your "bonds" and you happened to be speaking to someone at said bank about SOE and John Smedley (LoL), and they informed you that SOE is the reason the Sony stock has remained high...
LoL... Whatever.
Common stock, which I ASSUME you are referring to for Sony Japan is down 48% on the 1-year return rate... There is nothing good about that.
Sony USA, is trading for $24. On the 1st of January, 2008, it was trading for $54. There is nothing good about that either...
So, once again, tell us how you were discussing the intricacies of the Sony financials with a banker in England, while taking care of your "bond" stuff... Shall we question credibility? Afterall, us "disgruntled vets" sure like to make stuff up... RIGHT???
I believe that its kinda impossible to compare SWG and WoWs population. 1 game is 4 years old and is still super popular, one is 6 years old and doesn't have the marketing that WoW has.
I feel bad for the SWG vets. Loving a game as much as you did to have it changed. I am sure that SOE took the hit when the lot of you quit. But from my guildy's(played both PRE CU to Current) to my current G/F have told me up untill this last year the population has gone down.
I have seen new people log in and I have seen people quit.
I do believe that if your a vet waiting to hear that this game is closing do to lack of subs your going to wait for a long time.
Personally I think its time to do an SWG II and take it to the next level make it so everyone loves it....not that you can make everyone happy.
AS for my post earlyer where I said ALL I HEAR IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I was joking but a mod didn't think so. So to all I offended I was joking. sorry to have offended. but seriously guys.....you do need to let it go. and be alittle more positive in your posts.
As for this thread I think its time to lock it with all the flamming going on.
Originally posted by ummax Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be. Oh well such is life.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
I believe that its kinda impossible to compare SWG and WoWs population. 1 game is 4 years old and is still super popular, one is 6 years old and doesn't have the marketing that WoW has.
How about comparing WoW's numbers now to SWG's numbers when it was four years old? SWG was based on the largest moneymaking comercial IP in the world, and it was bungled from the start. Unfortunately, things got worse from there. WoW is based on a RTS franchise that was popular, but not hugely so, and has been competently managed and developed from the begining.
I believe that its kinda impossible to compare SWG and WoWs population. 1 game is 4 years old and is still super popular, one is 6 years old and doesn't have the marketing that WoW has.
How about comparing WoW's numbers now to SWG's numbers when it was four years old? SWG was based on the largest moneymaking comercial IP in the world, and it was bungled from the start. Unfortunately, things got worse from there. WoW is based on a RTS franchise that was popular, but not hugely so, and has been competently managed and developed from the begining.
LOL Star wars is what 1970/80's?i remember seeing the first Star Wars movie at the drive in when i was VERY Young.At that point in time,there was NOT one single person with high bandwidth ready to play online games.
In other words Star wars is old school,the modern players ,had nothign to do with Star wars gaming when that series started up.
The high bandwidth generation started around 1999,but took several years to hit the majority of households across North America.Even when it was finally available,many hestitated to spend that extra cash on High bandwidth just to pla ya game.It was not until Everquest sparked some interest,then finally at the release of WOW,most people were already on high bandwidth and were looking for a game to play.people do not want OLD SCHOOL,they are looking for something NEW,hence why and how WOW became so popular,because Everquest was not NEW,Star Wars was not NEW,Ultima ONline was not new and remained OLD looking.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
BadgerSmaker tries the same tactics on the SWG Oboards, telling people that the game's population is fine. There was a discussion about how the SWG logon screen (where you choose the server that you want a new too to play on) flags certain servers as 'recomended'. Some of these servers are dead. Most people on the Oboards agreed that SOE should channel new players to the higher populated servers. Badger said that recommending them to join a lower population server was a good thing because it would help the servers grow. This could work if alot of people were joining the game, which they are not. He then used his 'people are joing the game in droves' speech. The thread ended up getting locked. Someone on the Oboards had tried to defend Badger by saying that he was trying to do what was best for the game and that he was a dedicated player (those are not the exact words used, I have a terrible memory). I do not have a problem with people trying to defend their game. I do have a problem with them trying to deceive others about its status. Anyone can check out SWG's current population by using the free trials.
LOL Star wars is what 1970/80's?i remember seeing the first Star Wars movie at the drive in when i was VERY Young.At that point in time,there was NOT one single person with high bandwidth ready to play online games. In other words Star wars is old school,the modern players ,had nothign to do with Star wars gaming when that series started up. The high bandwidth generation started around 1999,but took several years to hit the majority of households across North America.Even when it was finally available,many hestitated to spend that extra cash on High bandwidth just to pla ya game.It was not until Everquest sparked some interest,then finally at the release of WOW,most people were already on high bandwidth and were looking for a game to play.people do not want OLD SCHOOL,they are looking for something NEW,hence why and how WOW became so popular,because Everquest was not NEW,Star Wars was not NEW,Ultima ONline was not new and remained OLD looking.
Star Wars is the highest grossing IP in entertainment history, that goes right up til today. It has two of the best selling fps games of all time, two of the best selling RPG's of all time, and that's without even considering the movies (the last of which was released just last year) and merchandise. Old school.... ? lol
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
U can compare SWG and WoW all u want. It doesn't matter. We all have our perceptions on how this game is going. And with some people their personal feelings are going to get in the way. WoW is a juggernaught! its widly popular and I doubt SWG ever had the numbers that WoW does. although for some reason WoW plays alot like SWG.
And I would agree that this game was miss-handled. but if SOE was not making money off this game they would have closed the doors along time ago. Like when the subposidly 200K subers cancelled and crashed the server. Or when there was the SECOND mass exodas when WoW came out(along with the multitude of other games that have come out)
Sony is making money and Uncle George is making money. as long as thats happening then the game lives on.
U can compare SWG and WoW all u want. It doesn't matter. We all have our perceptions on how this game is going. And with some people their personal feelings are going to get in the way. WoW is a juggernaught! its widly popular and I doubt SWG ever had the numbers that WoW does. although for some reason WoW plays alot like SWG.
And I would agree that this game was miss-handled. but if SOE was not making money off this game they would have closed the doors along time ago. Like when the subposidly 200K subers cancelled and crashed the server. Or when there was the SECOND mass exodas when WoW came out(along with the multitude of other games that have come out) Sony is making money and Uncle George is making money. as long as thats happening then the game lives on.
Wow, you really have no idea what happened to this game...
SWG plays like WoW because it was changed to be like WoW, because WoW had obtained almost total control of the market share. SOE had a panic and came up with the NGE, which was a cheap rip-off of WoW. They forgot the most important component to making a game like WoW -- QAULITY. SWG:NGE had gamebreaking bugs 2 years after it went live... It never had a chance.
"Like when *supposedly* 200K subscribers cancelled their accounts..." -- There is no supposedly to that, they did. SWG has been a corpse since December of 2005. Most of us were there, we witnessed the mass exodus of players, we were part of the mass exodus of players.
SWG is not making SOE a lot of money. If it were you would see advertising, bigger development teams, etc. SWG is on maintenance. Tiny updates coming months apart, high turnover in the development team, and NO advertising budget. There is no "perception" to be had. The simple FACT is that if SWG was doing well the game would be allotted more resources. It isn't some coverup, some major secret, it's pretty simple.
Anyone can check out SWG's current population by using the free trials.
Yes, that's true! I would certainly urge people to do that, and also feel free to use the stats I put together as a guideline when choosing a server: Badger's GCW Profession and Server stats - June
Oh and Thunderous, I would appreciate it if you did not make up false statements about me, I have no affiliation with SoE, I am not a "viral marketer", paid or otherwise. I am a six year SWG vet who likes to help people learn more about SWG and help them enjoy themselves in the game.
I do not think that me sharing my opinion on the state of the game should be a bannable offence, if you do however, please take it up with a moderator.
This thread is about SWG, not about your feelings for me.
You have to admit that thunderous has a point about the tone of your "opinions". For longer than I can remember you have been claiming SWG sees new and returning players joining the game every day. We know this, because you keep meeting them all the time.
However, during the entire period that you keep making these claims everything happening in the game development area and theme on the forums speaks to the opposite. The devs have long been working on tools to help the population find each other or merge into servers to aliviate the low population problems. Players have been beging for free character transfers and server mergers for years on the forums.
If what you claim to be happening were true, then the positive growth aspect of the game would have self corrected all the problems. There would be no need for free character transfers, tools for players to find each other or things of that nature. You simply cannot have "more and more people joining everyday" and still have such a high priority of psuedo mergers.
I'm sure you can wordsmith a few explanations, but the end result is that growing games do not need these drastic measures. They get more resourses, not lose them. They do not merge, they expand and swg has been trending in the opposite of that for a long time.
I'm sure you can wordsmith a few explanations, but the end result is that growing games do not need these drastic measures. They get more resourses, not lose them. They do not merge, they expand and swg has been trending in the opposite of that for a long time.
/shrug
Players demanded free transfers on the forums, they got free transfers.
I always thought that some better community tools to help people create, build and maintain existing server communities would be a better solution, but that kind of solution takes a lot more time and effort than /fcts on the part of the players, and the majority of players these days want quick solutions rather than community building.
I spend a lot of time spamming combat level 1 to 89 players with mails and tells on various servers, getting their names from player search tool. These are all new and returning players, there are thousands of them, I send them mails with information on accessing various guides and information on how to turn on auto-aim and join chat channels etc. They seem to appreciate it, this is essential stuff that helps a lot.
I end up chatting to a lot of them, asking what brought them to SWG/what brought them back, so I think this gives me a good insight into how healthy SWG is in terms of new and returning players.
One thing I have noticed is that when a server is marked on the Character Select Screen as "Recommended", there is a huge influx of new players as they tend to just accept the primary recommendation. For instance, last night it was Eclipse and there were tons of new and returning players on new characters loading in because of that.
If SoE had not done a FCTS, it would be interesting to see what kind of overall populations the servers would have today, but I think the Free CTS had added a lot of publicity and drawn a large number of people back to SWG to take advantage of it, so it has been pretty sweet in that regard.
Ok, I'm not going to believe that you spend all day talking to thousands (plural) of new players where ever it is you decide to play. Not that it would leave you much actual time to PLAY the game, but rather play good will ambassador all day. This isn't to say the new players don't appreciate what you do at all as I am sure they do.
If you say you hang out in newbie areas all day chatting to new players, cool, but please don't expect me to believe you see thousands of new players. Then saying returning players go to the recommended server instead of their original server, but hey maybe some do. I am curious as what you classify as a huge influx? How many people is that and what sort of time period?
As for the free character transfer, it was to little to late. People were already leaving their servers via the paid character transfers. Some were even rerolling just to play on a server with decent population. There is no rebirth of old servers as they have been dieing for years. If there was some revival as you have been claiming for the last several years, then it would have already happened. There would be no need for mergers, character moves or any of that type of thing.
If there was this huge influx of people joining the game, the servers would have already repopulated and people would have stopped asking for moves, because the communities would have grown.
On one hand there is you talking about huge influxes of players joining for who knows how long now. On the other hand SOE continues to create and implement systems to funnel players into smaller numbers of servers to help the population problems. Which do you think makes a more believable case?
I am curious as what you classify as a huge influx? How many people is that and what sort of time period?
I was just about to ask for clarification on this as well.
When you say there are thousands of new players Badger are you talking something around 2000 or are you talking of something like 10's of thousands? I find comments like these are left wide open for interpretation.
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
Originally posted by ummax Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be. Oh well such is life.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
Originally posted by ummax Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be. Oh well such is life.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
First of all, you can't trade SOE securities. Sony Corporation is the traded entity. Whoever told you Sony was doing well was misinformed. The stock is trading at less than half of what it was at the beginning of 2008. PS3 sales are slumping, and SOE doesn't own a highly competitive MMO market share.
I guess "The Royal Bank of Canada" isn't the end-all financial advisor when it comes to MMO publishers.
SOE is doing so well in fact, that the branch was shuffled over a year ago in a reorganization effort.
I just don't see the need to come on here and post fabrications. Don't you realize that there are those of us who are going to throw FACT into the discussion?
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
Originally posted by ummax Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be. Oh well such is life.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
If that is the case, I'd recommend finding a new investment advisor. None of SOE's financial information is publicly available, since it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony. Sony's financial information is publicly available (the link in the post you quoted), and SOE's contribution is included in the SCEI numbers, which were negative last year. Prior to that, SOE's contributions were included in the SPE numbers.
Whoever told you SOE was Sony's major source of profit is lying to you, as Sony's financial numbers are publicly available, and they show the reality to be otherwise.
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
If the GCW stats are the only hard numbers you have, then how can you be so certain they represent such a small portion of the player base? Isn't it just as likely they could represent 90% of the player base as far as we know?
The reason you are seeing an increase in the number of ranked characters goes hand in hand with the changes made to the point system. Points are easy to obtain now in comparison to before the battleground patch correct? Would that not be the likely cause of the "surge" in ranked characters?
I guess it is possible that a huge influx of players just happened to join swg and work up to officer ranks right at the same time that it became easier to gain GCW points. It would mean that current players opted not to engage in the new pvp content to make up for the increase the you are speculating is represented by new players.
Originally posted by ummax Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer. I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such. I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio. So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
Tell me, where is soe pulling in these huge profits from? SWG? EQ/EQ2? the whole 10 servers of free realms? Vanguard? Where are these huge profits coming from? Not only is soe self funding the development of several other mmos, now they are proping up the entire electronics giant?
I wonder why Sony is wasting money on advertising PS3, Blu ray, televisions and other trivial products of their company and not pouring money into the bread and butter profit making giant of SOE. It would make sense to market their big money makers right?
Really, this is the story you are going with? Someone at your local bank branch is a stock "guru" and they gave you all this awesome information about your SOE and SONY stocks. Your SOE stocks....
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
If that is the case then logically we'd have to look at alternatives to your explanation. For example it's also possible that the people you're seeing at this Empire Day celebration could simply be people who are there on a vet trial which happened to coincide with Empire Day.
Also SWG may in fact have a very high turn over rate of subscribers, and thereforethat reflects in the low status of their PvP kills or rank.
Comments
Some "Transfer from" servers have retained a small passionate and dedicated community, some haven't.
I noticed you posted on the official Intrepid forum and hooked up with some old friends, did you head to Starsider on your other characters in the end or some other server?
How were things after the transfer?
It helps if you open your eyes when you play. you would see other players! I think your the one that needs to "get over" your self. and get over the fact that this game is not going anywhere
It doesn't matter. The fact is, you will never, ever be able to brag about how huge the playerbase is. You'll never be able to call SWG a game that "everyone's playing". You'll never be able to call SOE a "trustworthy company". More people will hesitate before paying SOE any money than not. You go back to your game, such as it is, and you enjoy yourself with your friends, such as they are. Eventually, SOE will do something that will cause some of them to leave, and you will mock them too. And they will wonder, as do I, just exactly how much punishment you can take.
Oh, and ummax - that is music to my ears, if it's even true. If a division as poorly run as SOE is the most profitable division in Sony, they are due for a bankruptcy soon. I will sleep well tonight.
Well said!
LoL... So you were at your bank, in England, doing stuff with your "bonds" and you happened to be speaking to someone at said bank about SOE and John Smedley (LoL), and they informed you that SOE is the reason the Sony stock has remained high...
LoL... Whatever.
Common stock, which I ASSUME you are referring to for Sony Japan is down 48% on the 1-year return rate... There is nothing good about that.
Sony USA, is trading for $24. On the 1st of January, 2008, it was trading for $54. There is nothing good about that either...
So, once again, tell us how you were discussing the intricacies of the Sony financials with a banker in England, while taking care of your "bond" stuff... Shall we question credibility? Afterall, us "disgruntled vets" sure like to make stuff up... RIGHT???
Thanks for saving me the time to post that info.
I believe that its kinda impossible to compare SWG and WoWs population. 1 game is 4 years old and is still super popular, one is 6 years old and doesn't have the marketing that WoW has.
I feel bad for the SWG vets. Loving a game as much as you did to have it changed. I am sure that SOE took the hit when the lot of you quit. But from my guildy's(played both PRE CU to Current) to my current G/F have told me up untill this last year the population has gone down.
I have seen new people log in and I have seen people quit.
I do believe that if your a vet waiting to hear that this game is closing do to lack of subs your going to wait for a long time.
Personally I think its time to do an SWG II and take it to the next level make it so everyone loves it....not that you can make everyone happy.
AS for my post earlyer where I said ALL I HEAR IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I was joking but a mod didn't think so. So to all I offended I was joking. sorry to have offended. but seriously guys.....you do need to let it go. and be alittle more positive in your posts.
As for this thread I think its time to lock it with all the flamming going on.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
How about comparing WoW's numbers now to SWG's numbers when it was four years old? SWG was based on the largest moneymaking comercial IP in the world, and it was bungled from the start. Unfortunately, things got worse from there. WoW is based on a RTS franchise that was popular, but not hugely so, and has been competently managed and developed from the begining.
How about comparing WoW's numbers now to SWG's numbers when it was four years old? SWG was based on the largest moneymaking comercial IP in the world, and it was bungled from the start. Unfortunately, things got worse from there. WoW is based on a RTS franchise that was popular, but not hugely so, and has been competently managed and developed from the begining.
LOL Star wars is what 1970/80's?i remember seeing the first Star Wars movie at the drive in when i was VERY Young.At that point in time,there was NOT one single person with high bandwidth ready to play online games.
In other words Star wars is old school,the modern players ,had nothign to do with Star wars gaming when that series started up.
The high bandwidth generation started around 1999,but took several years to hit the majority of households across North America.Even when it was finally available,many hestitated to spend that extra cash on High bandwidth just to pla ya game.It was not until Everquest sparked some interest,then finally at the release of WOW,most people were already on high bandwidth and were looking for a game to play.people do not want OLD SCHOOL,they are looking for something NEW,hence why and how WOW became so popular,because Everquest was not NEW,Star Wars was not NEW,Ultima ONline was not new and remained OLD looking.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Someone on the Oboards had tried to defend Badger by saying that he was trying to do what was best for the game and that he was a dedicated player (those are not the exact words used, I have a terrible memory). I do not have a problem with people trying to defend their game. I do have a problem with them trying to deceive others about its status.
Anyone can check out SWG's current population by using the free trials.
Star Wars is the highest grossing IP in entertainment history, that goes right up til today. It has two of the best selling fps games of all time, two of the best selling RPG's of all time, and that's without even considering the movies (the last of which was released just last year) and merchandise. Old school.... ? lol
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
U can compare SWG and WoW all u want. It doesn't matter. We all have our perceptions on how this game is going. And with some people their personal feelings are going to get in the way. WoW is a juggernaught! its widly popular and I doubt SWG ever had the numbers that WoW does. although for some reason WoW plays alot like SWG.
And I would agree that this game was miss-handled. but if SOE was not making money off this game they would have closed the doors along time ago. Like when the subposidly 200K subers cancelled and crashed the server. Or when there was the SECOND mass exodas when WoW came out(along with the multitude of other games that have come out)
Sony is making money and Uncle George is making money. as long as thats happening then the game lives on.
Wow, you really have no idea what happened to this game...
SWG plays like WoW because it was changed to be like WoW, because WoW had obtained almost total control of the market share. SOE had a panic and came up with the NGE, which was a cheap rip-off of WoW. They forgot the most important component to making a game like WoW -- QAULITY. SWG:NGE had gamebreaking bugs 2 years after it went live... It never had a chance.
"Like when *supposedly* 200K subscribers cancelled their accounts..." -- There is no supposedly to that, they did. SWG has been a corpse since December of 2005. Most of us were there, we witnessed the mass exodus of players, we were part of the mass exodus of players.
SWG is not making SOE a lot of money. If it were you would see advertising, bigger development teams, etc. SWG is on maintenance. Tiny updates coming months apart, high turnover in the development team, and NO advertising budget. There is no "perception" to be had. The simple FACT is that if SWG was doing well the game would be allotted more resources. It isn't some coverup, some major secret, it's pretty simple.
Tecmo Bowl.
Yes, that's true! I would certainly urge people to do that, and also feel free to use the stats I put together as a guideline when choosing a server: Badger's GCW Profession and Server stats - June
Oh and Thunderous, I would appreciate it if you did not make up false statements about me, I have no affiliation with SoE, I am not a "viral marketer", paid or otherwise. I am a six year SWG vet who likes to help people learn more about SWG and help them enjoy themselves in the game.
I do not think that me sharing my opinion on the state of the game should be a bannable offence, if you do however, please take it up with a moderator.
This thread is about SWG, not about your feelings for me.
Thanks.
Badger,
You have to admit that thunderous has a point about the tone of your "opinions". For longer than I can remember you have been claiming SWG sees new and returning players joining the game every day. We know this, because you keep meeting them all the time.
However, during the entire period that you keep making these claims everything happening in the game development area and theme on the forums speaks to the opposite. The devs have long been working on tools to help the population find each other or merge into servers to aliviate the low population problems. Players have been beging for free character transfers and server mergers for years on the forums.
If what you claim to be happening were true, then the positive growth aspect of the game would have self corrected all the problems. There would be no need for free character transfers, tools for players to find each other or things of that nature. You simply cannot have "more and more people joining everyday" and still have such a high priority of psuedo mergers.
I'm sure you can wordsmith a few explanations, but the end result is that growing games do not need these drastic measures. They get more resourses, not lose them. They do not merge, they expand and swg has been trending in the opposite of that for a long time.
/shrug
Players demanded free transfers on the forums, they got free transfers.
I always thought that some better community tools to help people create, build and maintain existing server communities would be a better solution, but that kind of solution takes a lot more time and effort than /fcts on the part of the players, and the majority of players these days want quick solutions rather than community building.
I spend a lot of time spamming combat level 1 to 89 players with mails and tells on various servers, getting their names from player search tool. These are all new and returning players, there are thousands of them, I send them mails with information on accessing various guides and information on how to turn on auto-aim and join chat channels etc. They seem to appreciate it, this is essential stuff that helps a lot.
I end up chatting to a lot of them, asking what brought them to SWG/what brought them back, so I think this gives me a good insight into how healthy SWG is in terms of new and returning players.
One thing I have noticed is that when a server is marked on the Character Select Screen as "Recommended", there is a huge influx of new players as they tend to just accept the primary recommendation. For instance, last night it was Eclipse and there were tons of new and returning players on new characters loading in because of that.
If SoE had not done a FCTS, it would be interesting to see what kind of overall populations the servers would have today, but I think the Free CTS had added a lot of publicity and drawn a large number of people back to SWG to take advantage of it, so it has been pretty sweet in that regard.
Ok, I'm not going to believe that you spend all day talking to thousands (plural) of new players where ever it is you decide to play. Not that it would leave you much actual time to PLAY the game, but rather play good will ambassador all day. This isn't to say the new players don't appreciate what you do at all as I am sure they do.
If you say you hang out in newbie areas all day chatting to new players, cool, but please don't expect me to believe you see thousands of new players. Then saying returning players go to the recommended server instead of their original server, but hey maybe some do. I am curious as what you classify as a huge influx? How many people is that and what sort of time period?
As for the free character transfer, it was to little to late. People were already leaving their servers via the paid character transfers. Some were even rerolling just to play on a server with decent population. There is no rebirth of old servers as they have been dieing for years. If there was some revival as you have been claiming for the last several years, then it would have already happened. There would be no need for mergers, character moves or any of that type of thing.
If there was this huge influx of people joining the game, the servers would have already repopulated and people would have stopped asking for moves, because the communities would have grown.
On one hand there is you talking about huge influxes of players joining for who knows how long now. On the other hand SOE continues to create and implement systems to funnel players into smaller numbers of servers to help the population problems. Which do you think makes a more believable case?
I was just about to ask for clarification on this as well.
When you say there are thousands of new players Badger are you talking something around 2000 or are you talking of something like 10's of thousands? I find comments like these are left wide open for interpretation.
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
First of all, you can't trade SOE securities. Sony Corporation is the traded entity. Whoever told you Sony was doing well was misinformed. The stock is trading at less than half of what it was at the beginning of 2008. PS3 sales are slumping, and SOE doesn't own a highly competitive MMO market share.
I guess "The Royal Bank of Canada" isn't the end-all financial advisor when it comes to MMO publishers.
SOE is doing so well in fact, that the branch was shuffled over a year ago in a reorganization effort.
I just don't see the need to come on here and post fabrications. Don't you realize that there are those of us who are going to throw FACT into the discussion?
Tecmo Bowl.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
Yeah, most people are still operating under the flase belief that Sony makes money on Playstations, Bluray and Electronics like televisions and such. Most people just don't know that SOE is the money tree that keeps the entire company floating.
Only those savy enough to be involved in "bond stuff" have access to this type of information.
SOE isn't even close to being Sony's 'largest moneymaker'. SOE was moved under Sony's game division, which is still losing money due to the PS3. Sony Pictures, where SOE was until last year, is still making a profit. The game division is losing less money than it did in 2007, but Sony attributes it to the PS3 manufacturing costs being reduced (they lose less per unit than before), the PSP selling pretty well, and 2007's losses being mostly the result of the PS2 selling much less software and units. As with previous years, SOE doesn't merit a mention in Sony's Annual Report (www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2008/index.html).
SOE definitely turns a profit, since they are able to reduce costs by reducing staff for all their released products (even EQ2 has a smaller dev team than it used to). The major costs at SOE are the two games they have in development. Hell, they were running MxO with a single developer for quite some time, and without any developers for its last few months. They can reduce costs as low as they need to to scratch out a profit.
Well then I guess the royal bank of canada doesn't know its 8** from a hole in the ground
I buy RRSP's I went in to shuffle them as one does every few years and this is the info I was given when I wanted to dump SOE and most of sony corporation from the mix they informed me that they are actually doing quite well and advised me to hold onto it for awhile longer.
I dont claim to be a guru, but I do have an RRSP nestegg and like others I tend to follow the advice of the guru's who make the investment mixes. When I went through the stuff trying to lower risk etc I was advised against dumping certain companies and corporations this along with a few others was in the list and it stayed and for a reason. Turns out that SOE is right now pulling in a great deal of Sony corporations profit which amazed me. I just found it ironic is all and stated as such.
I dont manage my RRSP's the bank does and this is what I was told when I went in like I do every year to update my bonds and stocks in my RRSP portfolio.
So I guess the bank is lying to me and wants to loose money then thanks for clearing that up :P
If that is the case, I'd recommend finding a new investment advisor. None of SOE's financial information is publicly available, since it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony. Sony's financial information is publicly available (the link in the post you quoted), and SOE's contribution is included in the SCEI numbers, which were negative last year. Prior to that, SOE's contributions were included in the SPE numbers.
Whoever told you SOE was Sony's major source of profit is lying to you, as Sony's financial numbers are publicly available, and they show the reality to be otherwise.
If the GCW stats are the only hard numbers you have, then how can you be so certain they represent such a small portion of the player base? Isn't it just as likely they could represent 90% of the player base as far as we know?
The reason you are seeing an increase in the number of ranked characters goes hand in hand with the changes made to the point system. Points are easy to obtain now in comparison to before the battleground patch correct? Would that not be the likely cause of the "surge" in ranked characters?
I guess it is possible that a huge influx of players just happened to join swg and work up to officer ranks right at the same time that it became easier to gain GCW points. It would mean that current players opted not to engage in the new pvp content to make up for the increase the you are speculating is represented by new players.
Tell me, where is soe pulling in these huge profits from? SWG? EQ/EQ2? the whole 10 servers of free realms? Vanguard? Where are these huge profits coming from? Not only is soe self funding the development of several other mmos, now they are proping up the entire electronics giant?
I wonder why Sony is wasting money on advertising PS3, Blu ray, televisions and other trivial products of their company and not pouring money into the bread and butter profit making giant of SOE. It would make sense to market their big money makers right?
Really, this is the story you are going with? Someone at your local bank branch is a stock "guru" and they gave you all this awesome information about your SOE and SONY stocks. Your SOE stocks....
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
If that is the case then logically we'd have to look at alternatives to your explanation. For example it's also possible that the people you're seeing at this Empire Day celebration could simply be people who are there on a vet trial which happened to coincide with Empire Day.
Also SWG may in fact have a very high turn over rate of subscribers, and thereforethat reflects in the low status of their PvP kills or rank.