Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
If that is the case then logically we'd have to look at alternatives to your explanation. For example it's also possible that the people you're seeing at this Empire Day celebration could simply be people who are there on a vet trial which happened to coincide with Empire Day.
Also SWG may in fact have a very high turn over rate of subscribers, and thereforethat reflects in the low status of their PvP kills or rank.
Yeppers. With the new PvP zones, traditionally non-PvP characters are even participating - like AFK traders! Now that the PvP zones unload tons of GCW points, many more players, even those who never really cared much for PvP are particpating. Given the alts and players who own multiple accounts (more than you think), free vet trials, and the new GCW PvP zones, it is easy to see how and why the GCW numbers have increased, however the GCW numbers do not prove a significant increase in paid active subscriptions.
Now I can only think of two possibilites. One, people are mistaken that there are huge amounts of new players. Or two, the subscriber turn-over rate is exceptionally high.
Only hard numbers are the GCW stats, from 5/30/09 to the latest update on 7/10 there has been a 38.5% increase from about 8000 to over 11,000 of rankded officers. It's a small subsection of the total population but it's the only hard numbers that are available to anyone who does not work for the game.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
A game that offers pvp as an "option" is only offered as a means for devs to start and continue the overpowered nerf cycle as a cheap means to keep players paying. Hardly anyone really quits over nerfs, but alot of people will spend weeks and months changing their build around to be the best. 10% of the players engage in pvp because its horrible. 10% of players raid, yet every expansion contains raids. Raiding is horrible. Another cheap way to keep 10% playing. 20% of players are retained at minimum cost and max profit. the rest are followers or newcomers. Data is BS used to validate whatever scheme they're selling at the moment. Not saying it isnt exactly correct, but their data is created by them, not us.
So 10% may engage in pvp. But its because the game was made for 10% to pvp. UO, everyone pvp'd eventually. So theres data that 100% will pvp. If given a choice though far less will, because its so damn horrible not to mention..completly pointless.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
hmmm I think your wrong about the subscriptions going down. I see new people every day logging in. I hate to say it guys but this game is a success, its not going anywhere. they keep making money off of it.
Just because you hate it and quit along with the other 200k people that did doesn't make it a failure.
I can say with out a doubt Sony and Lucas arts would have droped this like a bad date if it was failing. how long ago did the NGE patch drop? how long has it been going? 6 years? and still going? think about it......
I think SWG is doing fine too, but you have to be a little more understanding of the people who were not able to recover after the NGE.
I went through a similar experience with UO many years ago when the game moved to loot based items from crafter based, I left the game and have not been able to pick it up since, despite returning on a veteran trial it just wasn't the game I remembered.
The NGE was the most traumatic experience in gamer history that I can think of, I certainly don't blame anyone for still harbouring a grudge. I don't think I ever got over it myself, the anger I had from that day still drives me on to make sure it never happens again.
How about understanding for the people that went thru CU? GCW-revamp? C6CD? GU-Whatever? etc? etc? etc? And, now, it would seem, "Droid Commander". SOE has done more than just NGE to lose a playerbase.
For those that believe the SWG playerbase is 100K current subs, Smedley released, at C6CD, that SWG had 100K subs. I was still on Kauri in those days (RIP Kauri). 2 months ago, Bria started to look like it was starting down the same path. IE; No ents in ME, no ents in Thead, PVP dead, no groups for instances (didn't run a single instance in the last 2 months I was subbed). etc etc.
OK, at C5 we know there was 100K subs to SWG, Smed said so (lol which included station passes lol). Does SWG today, look anything like that? There were people on 26 severs (Kauri was the lowest, but we still had a 50 current player guild then). Talked to a player tonight on my vent. I got to hear that so and so is gone, and so and so is gone, and so and so is gone and so on, and so on, and so on. The Bria guild, that was at least 50 current players, is now down to under 10. You have a Bria toon, Badger, you know. At C5, there were aprox. 20 devs, how many now? At C5, content came almost every month, how much now?
Come on Badger. SS is the one large server, now. And it has the lag threads on gameplay to prove it. I still watch the O-Boards from time to time and have seen threads on just about every server, being dead or dieing, except SS. My wife still subs so I get to see Bria on a day to day basis and I, or her, have not seen all these new players you are touting. I'm watching the 2nd oldest city on Bria, tier 5 (and then some), a city I was mayor of (Hideaway ,Naboo) dwindle to almost nothing. Waiting for the many (MANY) people's houses to hit the 90 day mark and the city de-rank.
I know you want the best for SWG, even if you have to CHANGE the game your way to get it. I know you want to re-build the community. I even wish you luck, but stateing "facts" like you and others have tried to put forth in this thread is hardly the way to do it. Some1 reads this stuff, hits the 14 day free trial, and wonders where every1 went. Not really a sub getter, there. You might have more luck with, "we're rebuilding and even 1 more is important to us". I know thats what I did to keep Hideaway at 80+ citizens. Sad to see that go........
SWG isnt dead and its a long way from its peak we all agree that this game has never made its way back to being a growing and alive game. It is far from dead but still isnt growing a population, when they stealth cut half the servers by free transfer off, that is a tell tale sign that things are not good. You might say SWG has half the population it had during the NGE, that would put it at around 50k. Free transfers are just SOE plugging a hole, people were cancelling big time due to no one to play with. This isnt a fix and more than likely will only slow the decay to population.
50k is how many logg onto EVE on a daily basis, you know thier isnt 50k logging on SWG, only a percentage of that loggs on, so maybe thier are about 15k people logged onto the servers. It must be clear to SOE that they have a game that is still making them money, but they can also see that thier is no future for it. That must be why they really are not developing this game past some cosmetics. The card game is probably the only thing keeping them interested in SWG, it makes them money with very little effort.
People are leaving again, the last of the diehards have woken up to the fact this game is not going anywhere ever again. The Zombie announcement was probably that wake up. Even though some are leaving most of whats left are people SOE can kick around and ignore, they will take whatever SOE gives them. The only thing they want and need from SOE is please dont turn off my server.
Dont get me wrong, SWG isnt going to die or close down anytime soon, more than likely that will take another 5 years for that to happen. Its just sad why this game is still open. Its still open because some people cant let go and move on. People that still play are living in the past, they remember all the good times they had in game. Too bad it isnt clear to them that the good days in that game are long gone.
SWG isnt dead and its a long way from its peak we all agree that this game has never made its way back to being a growing and alive game. It is far from dead but still isnt growing a population, when they stealth cut half the servers by free transfer off, that is a tell tale sign that things are not good. You might say SWG has half the population it had during the NGE, that would put it at around 50k. Free transfers are just SOE plugging a hole, people were cancelling big time due to no one to play with. This isnt a fix and more than likely will only slow the decay to population.
Well I loved Pre-CU and I think I would play a Pre-CU server even still (yes run by soe).
However, I'm not posting to talk about that its just a perspective lead in on how I felt about the game. I think many of us (myself included) pretty much see this game as going away some point after TOR launch...
So I was suprised to see the following recently...
"I'm counting down to my last few days on the EQII team but before I left I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here on the forums.
The EQII team has been my home for about four years now and it has been one of the biggest learning experiences of my life and I think all for the better
So thank you for all the comments over the years (good and bad, I'll miss them both!)
I'm staying with SOE and later this month you should see me pop up on the SWG team where I will continue my crusade to bring pink unicorns and ducks to the MMO landscape
- Kirstie"
Jennifer "Kirstie" Gerull
EQII Mechanics Supervisor
*****
I mean I kind of wonder why someone would transfer to the SWG team at this point... it would be like the Siberian salt mine of SOE. So I wasn't sure how to see that (commitment to try and bring the game back or she made someone upset).
I mean I kind of wonder why someone would transfer to the SWG team at this point... it would be like the Siberian salt mine of SOE. So I wasn't sure how to see that (commitment to try and bring the game back or she made someone upset).
Lol, I can imagine how that conversation went:
<SOE executive>: "So how's EQ2 going, are we on track for our annual playerbase-harassment figures?"
<EQ2 Team Lead>: "Absolutely, sir. We've already planned out a $50 dollar expansion for each of the remaining months of the year that our customers will need to purchase to see any new content. We've also completely thrown off class balance and prepared for community uproar with an upcoming patch that will fail to fix the current issues, instead making things worse. Our GMs are also surveying the community on features they enjoy most about the game, so we can strip them all out and slowly spoonfeed them back to the players as cheap shadows of their former selves in order to make it seem like we're adding new content!"
<SOE executive>: "Excellent work, can we brainstorm any other ideas?"
<Jennifer chimes in>: "Well...we could listen to the community and see if there's anything they'd like to see in the game..."
<SOE executive>: *hesitates and then shoots EQ team lead a stern look* "Put her somewhere she can't damage our reputation."
I mean I kind of wonder why someone would transfer to the SWG team at this point... it would be like the Siberian salt mine of SOE. So I wasn't sure how to see that (commitment to try and bring the game back or she made someone upset).
The path to the DCUO dev team leads through SWG. I wonder which SWG dev she will be replacing.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again. Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again. Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
I'm not sure if you missed my previous question Badger but I'm really curious as to what you consider as thousands of new players? Are you suggesting a couple thousand (like 2000-3000) or something much higher? Something in the tens of thousands?
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again. Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
This game isn't thriving. Everyone simply moved to Star, that's it and that's all. Look at the server stats, it's obvious.
I don't think SWG will ever truly die, there is a reason that SOE has it as part of the Station Pass. Anyone with the Station Pass can play it, and I spoke to 2 people who were playing last week because it was part of the Pass and they wanted to try it.
It's not like anyone is running out to try SWG. It's population hasn't grown in 4, maybe 5 years. Regardless of how optimistically you look at the SWG situation, only the most unreasonable and illogical people could claim SWG is growing.
Well, I really don't have the time or inclination to get into a circular arguement with you and the fringers on this, you know I don't agree based on my personal experience of playing SWG and we've also established that people can log in and see for themselves and use the stats I put together as a rough guide in choosing a server.
Well, I really don't have the time or inclination to get into a circular arguement with you and the fringers on this, you know I don't agree based on my personal experience of playing SWG and we've also established that people can log in and see for themselves and use the stats I put together as a rough guide in choosing a server.
Yet you still wont even clarify your own claims.
Personally I think a claim of "thousands of new players" is rather vague and misleading without some kind of refined description. Isn't that a fair question to ask?
Yet you still wont even clarify your own claims. Personally I think a claim of "thousands of new players" is rather vague and misleading without some kind of refined description. Isn't that a fair question to ask?
Not sure why you get so obsessed with the accounts I relate from my own personal experience. They are just that, not sure what you think you can change within my own perceptions.
You are often just nit-picking at my comments and cast dispersions on me and anything vaguley positive I post regarding SWG.
I wont be drawn into that, I suggest you not waste your time in future.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again. Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think it's simply a fair question. "Thousanads of new players" can translate anywhere from 2000 to 999,999. That's a pretty big gap IMO to leave open to interpretation.
Yet you still wont even clarify your own claims. Personally I think a claim of "thousands of new players" is rather vague and misleading without some kind of refined description. Isn't that a fair question to ask?
Not sure why you get so obsessed with the accounts I relate from my own personal experience. They are just that, not sure what you think you can change within my own perceptions.
You are often just nit-picking at my comments and cast dispersions on me and anything vaguley positive I post regarding SWG.
I wont be drawn into that, I suggest you not waste your time in future.
Badger, you make statements like this all the time and then rarely back them up with a description of definition. It is just some vague "I see thousands of new players" comment that can mean anything.
You say swg is thriving and you see thousands of new players joining. How many do you see a week? On what servers? How many thousands of new players have your personal experiences led you to interact with and over how long a period of time?
I think you refuse to answer, because you know your experiences will not stand up to scrutiny. While I've never really counted I have a pretty good idea how long it would take me to interact or witness thousands of new people, but maybe your experience is different.
How about this if you don't want to get detailed about your own experiences to validate your claims. Where can someone else go to see this thriving population of new and returning players filling the ranks of the servers up? As you often say, anyone can go into the game and see it for themselves. So where is this place you go that shows you the truth of the population growth? Lets go there and see what it looks like.
How about this if you don't want to get detailed about your own experiences to validate your claims. Where can someone else go to see this thriving population of new and returning players filling the ranks of the servers up? As you often say, anyone can go into the game and see it for themselves. So where is this place you go that shows you the truth of the population growth? Lets go there and see what it looks like.
As I said, try one of the busier servers, use my stats as a guide.
See how we go around in circles? I'm sure we can find something more interesting to talk about, I very much enjoy chatting to you chaps about SWG but let's not get bogged down in dull discussions.
How about this if you don't want to get detailed about your own experiences to validate your claims. Where can someone else go to see this thriving population of new and returning players filling the ranks of the servers up? As you often say, anyone can go into the game and see it for themselves. So where is this place you go that shows you the truth of the population growth? Lets go there and see what it looks like.
As I said, try one of the busier servers, use my stats as a guide.
See how we go around in circles? I'm sure we can find something more interesting to talk about, I very much enjoy chatting to you chaps about SWG but let's not get bogged down in dull discussions.
I didn't find it a dull conversation at all, and I only see it getting "bogged down" when you refuse to clarify your very vague comments.
Had I made a comment saying thousands of players were leaving would you not like clarification on that, or at the very least present your version of "proof" to counter my claim?
I've spent a couple nights this past 2 weeks playing on the vet trial, and I don't agree with it being better than ever, yes better than early NGE but definitely not better than ever. The amount of exploiting is beyond amazing and I've already come across some annoying bugs and game crashes. And almost everyone is playing with that lame line of sight issue, there's even people that'll find a rock and stand around it to avoid you.
Jedi is still a lame profession, commando is OP and is set to "easy" mode, darkside Jedi, spy and officer hits like a truck, good medics are nearly impossible to take down. There's still a lack of balance through each profession, and I doubt there'll ever be anyways.
And LOL @ the super overpowered bomb droids on TC, over 20K unresisted damage from a probot droid?
There is turnover in WoW. Players quit, new ones begin. In Star Wars Galaxies players quit and very few take their place. The game offers no staying power to retain subscriptions. SOE and LucasArts put almost no resources or effort into this game and it shows. There CAN'T be more than 5,000 to 8,000 active players.
I'm afriad that no matter how much you want this to be true due to your obvious hatred of all thing SoE, more and more new and returning players are filling out the ranks of SWG players every day.
I get the chance to speak to many of them in game and there is a recurring trend of SWG seeing an influx of WoW burnouts looking for a more engaging game world to play in, and SWG delivers that.
There is also plenty of sandbox gameplay in SWG, a number of my friends have put together awesome creations via the story teller system and run fun events.
Yep one of my very good friends works for SOE...she told me that SWG is every bit as profitable as their other games more so in some cases and all of their games are currently turning a profit....I undertsntd that the Vets will howl and deny this, she has no reason to lie. SOE is laughing at the "Vets" all the way to the bank. The only thing these screwballs have managed to do is get a negitive reputation in the MMO community, so much so that Bioware dosen't wnat them on thei forums and will perma ban them the moment they start their shit. One mabye they will get the therapy or closure the need.
SOE can laugh all they want. For my part, I've done most of what I've intended - given SOE and SWG as bad a reputation as they've earned, limiting the number of people who would ever take this game seriously, and doing my best to spread the news that SOE does not like/respect its customers. SWG's subscription numbers were supposed to eventually go through the roof with the NGE, surpassing previous highs and hitting at least Lineage levels. The most optimistic guesses I've heard put subscriptions at just under 100,000, which is a third of SWG's previous high, but that's still a very biased guess based on wishful thinking, much like the other extreme of 5000-10000 subs at the most. The truth lies in the middle somewhere, which means the actions of vets such as myself were a moderate success. After almost 4 years of NGE, it succeeded in getting rid of the people they were trying to get rid of - myself and 200,000 others like me - but did not attract the mythical audience it was designed to attract.
So you go ahead and enjoy SWG. Sounds like you have enough friends to play with, meaning you're on one of the populated servers (they used to ALL be populated). You may or may not have your own issues with the gameplay (doesn't sound like it, you seem willing to swallow whatever SOE deigns to give you). So you'll have fun and play in your own vacuum. Good for you! But there is nothing "screwball" about demanding accountability when you are a paying customer. The only vets who may fit that description are the ones who still pay SOE in the hopes that they'll see the error of their ways and revert to pre-CU, or open a separate server. The fact is, SOE used to piss on us and tell us it was raining. We figured it out, and left. SWG is down to the players that SOE doesn't have to lie to anymore - they will flat-out tell you they are pissing on you, and they know you won't leave no matter what.
What? what are you saying? cause all I hear from Badger's post all the way down to yours is:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! MY DIAPER NEEDS CHANGING!!!!
Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be.
I can remember on Bria, going to Coronet starport and seeing 5 lines of Doctors selling 3-4hr duration buffs, each with like 15-20 players waiting in line at any given time, or walking into either Theed or Coronet cantina with a friend and having to /target her toon because I'd lost track of her in the crowds there. And when I was working on mastering Doctor I would visit my factory to load my backpack to go sit in Theed Med Center and heal people's battle fatigued stats. Within a couple hours I would be completely out of stims. That was when SWG was better than ever.
I can remember on Bria, going to Coronet starport and seeing 5 lines of Doctors selling 3-4hr duration buffs, each with like 15-20 players waiting in line at any given time, or walking into either Theed or Coronet cantina with a friend and having to /target her toon because I'd lost track of her in the crowds there. And when I was working on mastering Doctor I would visit my factory to load my backpack to go sit in Theed Med Center and heal people's battle fatigued stats. Within a couple hours I would be completely out of stims. That was when SWG was better than ever.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome!
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes...
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun!
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's!
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today.
I can remember on Bria, going to Coronet starport and seeing 5 lines of Doctors selling 3-4hr duration buffs, each with like 15-20 players waiting in line at any given time, or walking into either Theed or Coronet cantina with a friend and having to /target her toon because I'd lost track of her in the crowds there. And when I was working on mastering Doctor I would visit my factory to load my backpack to go sit in Theed Med Center and heal people's battle fatigued stats. Within a couple hours I would be completely out of stims. That was when SWG was better than ever.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome! I stand and wait for a certain class to show up to get buffs in alot of games. Whats even better is when you cant even do anything without a healer or spank so you have to log.
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes... Ya, like spamming LFG for 20 minutes. SWG you got asked to join everywhere you went. But, xp slowed, respawning 30 minutes away, and having a hour long instance reset because someone in the group had to take a poo is so much better. Not to mention whatever lame death penalty they have. man other games are so much different.
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun! Shall we compare them to raiding? Even explaining how much worse they are makes me sick, so I'll just say, doing something comparable for a improved char, rather than gay looking gear is better any day of the week.
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...getting a job from an npc to go kill bol's OMG that is so much better. Its from an NPC so it has to be!!!! NPC's are so much better and actually make me beleive I want to go across the world to kill them, then I get to go all the way back...and for a muffin too. AWESOME!!! I get to do that for the entire game. In fact its the only thing I can do. And they spent 100 times more for it too.
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's! They do soe troll. You must have been one who didnt quit over the NGE.
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today. Other games dont have the profession system, so they are entirely grind-tastic crap with a toon someone else made for you.
Wanna do some more? How about you tell me what game your on, and I make fun of it. If I've even bothered with the POS. (please be WOW, please be WOW)
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
There is turnover in WoW. Players quit, new ones begin. In Star Wars Galaxies players quit and very few take their place. The game offers no staying power to retain subscriptions. SOE and LucasArts put almost no resources or effort into this game and it shows. There CAN'T be more than 5,000 to 8,000 active players.
I'm afriad that no matter how much you want this to be true due to your obvious hatred of all thing SoE, more and more new and returning players are filling out the ranks of SWG players every day.
I get the chance to speak to many of them in game and there is a recurring trend of SWG seeing an influx of WoW burnouts looking for a more engaging game world to play in, and SWG delivers that.
There is also plenty of sandbox gameplay in SWG, a number of my friends have put together awesome creations via the story teller system and run fun events.
Yep one of my very good friends works for SOE...she told me that SWG is every bit as profitable as their other games more so in some cases and all of their games are currently turning a profit....I undertsntd that the Vets will howl and deny this, she has no reason to lie. SOE is laughing at the "Vets" all the way to the bank. The only thing these screwballs have managed to do is get a negitive reputation in the MMO community, so much so that Bioware dosen't wnat them on thei forums and will perma ban them the moment they start their shit. One mabye they will get the therapy or closure the need.
SOE can laugh all they want. For my part, I've done most of what I've intended - given SOE and SWG as bad a reputation as they've earned, limiting the number of people who would ever take this game seriously, and doing my best to spread the news that SOE does not like/respect its customers. SWG's subscription numbers were supposed to eventually go through the roof with the NGE, surpassing previous highs and hitting at least Lineage levels. The most optimistic guesses I've heard put subscriptions at just under 100,000, which is a third of SWG's previous high, but that's still a very biased guess based on wishful thinking, much like the other extreme of 5000-10000 subs at the most. The truth lies in the middle somewhere, which means the actions of vets such as myself were a moderate success. After almost 4 years of NGE, it succeeded in getting rid of the people they were trying to get rid of - myself and 200,000 others like me - but did not attract the mythical audience it was designed to attract.
So you go ahead and enjoy SWG. Sounds like you have enough friends to play with, meaning you're on one of the populated servers (they used to ALL be populated). You may or may not have your own issues with the gameplay (doesn't sound like it, you seem willing to swallow whatever SOE deigns to give you). So you'll have fun and play in your own vacuum. Good for you! But there is nothing "screwball" about demanding accountability when you are a paying customer. The only vets who may fit that description are the ones who still pay SOE in the hopes that they'll see the error of their ways and revert to pre-CU, or open a separate server. The fact is, SOE used to piss on us and tell us it was raining. We figured it out, and left. SWG is down to the players that SOE doesn't have to lie to anymore - they will flat-out tell you they are pissing on you, and they know you won't leave no matter what.
What? what are you saying? cause all I hear from Badger's post all the way down to yours is:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! MY DIAPER NEEDS CHANGING!!!!
Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be.
I can remember on Bria, going to Coronet starport and seeing 5 lines of Doctors selling 3-4hr duration buffs, each with like 15-20 players waiting in line at any given time, or walking into either Theed or Coronet cantina with a friend and having to /target her toon because I'd lost track of her in the crowds there. And when I was working on mastering Doctor I would visit my factory to load my backpack to go sit in Theed Med Center and heal people's battle fatigued stats. Within a couple hours I would be completely out of stims. That was when SWG was better than ever.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome!
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes...
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun!
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's!
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today.
Buffs got out of hand for sure, but the buff lines in concept were an important part of the game. Just like battle fatigue and waiting for shuttles. It promoted community and the concepts were sound even though the mechanics were somewhat flawed.
Since then SOE has done almost everything possible to kill that community atmosphere by removing all the interdependancies and allowing anything a players needs to happen anywhere. How often do we hear people saying the game is populated, but not it towns, because there is no need to go there anymore. Just think about that.
Was original swg broken, yes. However it suffered something worse that a bad release. It suffered from a development company that was willing to do everthing BUT fix the base game. They canabalized the live team to make expansions, to revamp the entire base game, make another expansion and then make another expansion while revamping the entire base game a second time.
If they had just spent that first year fixing the game and adding content to it, things would have been better. I mean is it so hard ti imagine the possibility that some of the content that has been currently added could not have been done in 2004 instead of the direction soe took by ignoring the players to squeeze money out of expansions?
The original game lacked content big time, but it isn't something that could not have been fixed.
Comments
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
If that is the case then logically we'd have to look at alternatives to your explanation. For example it's also possible that the people you're seeing at this Empire Day celebration could simply be people who are there on a vet trial which happened to coincide with Empire Day.
Also SWG may in fact have a very high turn over rate of subscribers, and thereforethat reflects in the low status of their PvP kills or rank.
Yeppers. With the new PvP zones, traditionally non-PvP characters are even participating - like AFK traders! Now that the PvP zones unload tons of GCW points, many more players, even those who never really cared much for PvP are particpating. Given the alts and players who own multiple accounts (more than you think), free vet trials, and the new GCW PvP zones, it is easy to see how and why the GCW numbers have increased, however the GCW numbers do not prove a significant increase in paid active subscriptions.
At this point I thought I'd share 2 screenshots taken almost exactly 1 year apart....
The first was taken on July 6th 2008 at 8:41PM Est.
http://s768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Noiro1971/SWG/?action=view¤t=screenShot0024.jpg
The second was taken last Sunday at 9:11PM Est.
http://s768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/Noiro1971/SWG/?action=view¤t=screenShot0140.jpg
Now I can only think of two possibilites. One, people are mistaken that there are huge amounts of new players. Or two, the subscriber turn-over rate is exceptionally high.
But of course the danger of using those statistics to claim a booming subscriber base is that it doesn't take into account the number of subscribers inactive in office rankings just prior to an update that would encourage people to be active again.
Secondly, how can we be sure of how small a subsection of the total playerbase they are? Is it not possible that it could be something higher - perhaps 50%?
The historical average of players who PvP in a game that features PvP as an option is about 10% of the entire player base (I read this on Raph Koster's blog). Now you can argue that SWG is vastly different than any other game and thats fine. By my own observation at events like the current Empire Day the vast majority of players I see attending have zero or very limited amounts of PvP kills or rank.
A game that offers pvp as an "option" is only offered as a means for devs to start and continue the overpowered nerf cycle as a cheap means to keep players paying. Hardly anyone really quits over nerfs, but alot of people will spend weeks and months changing their build around to be the best. 10% of the players engage in pvp because its horrible. 10% of players raid, yet every expansion contains raids. Raiding is horrible. Another cheap way to keep 10% playing. 20% of players are retained at minimum cost and max profit. the rest are followers or newcomers. Data is BS used to validate whatever scheme they're selling at the moment. Not saying it isnt exactly correct, but their data is created by them, not us.
So 10% may engage in pvp. But its because the game was made for 10% to pvp. UO, everyone pvp'd eventually. So theres data that 100% will pvp. If given a choice though far less will, because its so damn horrible not to mention..completly pointless.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think SWG is doing fine too, but you have to be a little more understanding of the people who were not able to recover after the NGE.
I went through a similar experience with UO many years ago when the game moved to loot based items from crafter based, I left the game and have not been able to pick it up since, despite returning on a veteran trial it just wasn't the game I remembered.
The NGE was the most traumatic experience in gamer history that I can think of, I certainly don't blame anyone for still harbouring a grudge. I don't think I ever got over it myself, the anger I had from that day still drives me on to make sure it never happens again.
How about understanding for the people that went thru CU? GCW-revamp? C6CD? GU-Whatever? etc? etc? etc? And, now, it would seem, "Droid Commander". SOE has done more than just NGE to lose a playerbase.
For those that believe the SWG playerbase is 100K current subs, Smedley released, at C6CD, that SWG had 100K subs. I was still on Kauri in those days (RIP Kauri). 2 months ago, Bria started to look like it was starting down the same path. IE; No ents in ME, no ents in Thead, PVP dead, no groups for instances (didn't run a single instance in the last 2 months I was subbed). etc etc.
OK, at C5 we know there was 100K subs to SWG, Smed said so (lol which included station passes lol). Does SWG today, look anything like that? There were people on 26 severs (Kauri was the lowest, but we still had a 50 current player guild then). Talked to a player tonight on my vent. I got to hear that so and so is gone, and so and so is gone, and so and so is gone and so on, and so on, and so on. The Bria guild, that was at least 50 current players, is now down to under 10. You have a Bria toon, Badger, you know. At C5, there were aprox. 20 devs, how many now? At C5, content came almost every month, how much now?
Come on Badger. SS is the one large server, now. And it has the lag threads on gameplay to prove it. I still watch the O-Boards from time to time and have seen threads on just about every server, being dead or dieing, except SS. My wife still subs so I get to see Bria on a day to day basis and I, or her, have not seen all these new players you are touting. I'm watching the 2nd oldest city on Bria, tier 5 (and then some), a city I was mayor of (Hideaway ,Naboo) dwindle to almost nothing. Waiting for the many (MANY) people's houses to hit the 90 day mark and the city de-rank.
I know you want the best for SWG, even if you have to CHANGE the game your way to get it. I know you want to re-build the community. I even wish you luck, but stateing "facts" like you and others have tried to put forth in this thread is hardly the way to do it. Some1 reads this stuff, hits the 14 day free trial, and wonders where every1 went. Not really a sub getter, there. You might have more luck with, "we're rebuilding and even 1 more is important to us". I know thats what I did to keep Hideaway at 80+ citizens. Sad to see that go........
Interesting thread, and it's really been moveing.
SWG isnt dead and its a long way from its peak we all agree that this game has never made its way back to being a growing and alive game. It is far from dead but still isnt growing a population, when they stealth cut half the servers by free transfer off, that is a tell tale sign that things are not good. You might say SWG has half the population it had during the NGE, that would put it at around 50k. Free transfers are just SOE plugging a hole, people were cancelling big time due to no one to play with. This isnt a fix and more than likely will only slow the decay to population.
50k is how many logg onto EVE on a daily basis, you know thier isnt 50k logging on SWG, only a percentage of that loggs on, so maybe thier are about 15k people logged onto the servers. It must be clear to SOE that they have a game that is still making them money, but they can also see that thier is no future for it. That must be why they really are not developing this game past some cosmetics. The card game is probably the only thing keeping them interested in SWG, it makes them money with very little effort.
People are leaving again, the last of the diehards have woken up to the fact this game is not going anywhere ever again. The Zombie announcement was probably that wake up. Even though some are leaving most of whats left are people SOE can kick around and ignore, they will take whatever SOE gives them. The only thing they want and need from SOE is please dont turn off my server.
Dont get me wrong, SWG isnt going to die or close down anytime soon, more than likely that will take another 5 years for that to happen. Its just sad why this game is still open. Its still open because some people cant let go and move on. People that still play are living in the past, they remember all the good times they had in game. Too bad it isnt clear to them that the good days in that game are long gone.
Well I loved Pre-CU and I think I would play a Pre-CU server even still (yes run by soe).
However, I'm not posting to talk about that its just a perspective lead in on how I felt about the game. I think many of us (myself included) pretty much see this game as going away some point after TOR launch...
So I was suprised to see the following recently...
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454839
For those that don't want to follow the link:
"I'm counting down to my last few days on the EQII team but before I left I wanted to say goodbye to everyone here on the forums.
The EQII team has been my home for about four years now and it has been one of the biggest learning experiences of my life and I think all for the better
So thank you for all the comments over the years (good and bad, I'll miss them both!)
I'm staying with SOE and later this month you should see me pop up on the SWG team where I will continue my crusade to bring pink unicorns and ducks to the MMO landscape
- Kirstie"
Jennifer "Kirstie" Gerull
EQII Mechanics Supervisor
*****
I mean I kind of wonder why someone would transfer to the SWG team at this point... it would be like the Siberian salt mine of SOE. So I wasn't sure how to see that (commitment to try and bring the game back or she made someone upset).
Lol, I can imagine how that conversation went:
<SOE executive>: "So how's EQ2 going, are we on track for our annual playerbase-harassment figures?"
<EQ2 Team Lead>: "Absolutely, sir. We've already planned out a $50 dollar expansion for each of the remaining months of the year that our customers will need to purchase to see any new content. We've also completely thrown off class balance and prepared for community uproar with an upcoming patch that will fail to fix the current issues, instead making things worse. Our GMs are also surveying the community on features they enjoy most about the game, so we can strip them all out and slowly spoonfeed them back to the players as cheap shadows of their former selves in order to make it seem like we're adding new content!"
<SOE executive>: "Excellent work, can we brainstorm any other ideas?"
<Jennifer chimes in>: "Well...we could listen to the community and see if there's anything they'd like to see in the game..."
<SOE executive>: *hesitates and then shoots EQ team lead a stern look* "Put her somewhere she can't damage our reputation."
The path to the DCUO dev team leads through SWG. I wonder which SWG dev she will be replacing.
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
I'm not sure if you missed my previous question Badger but I'm really curious as to what you consider as thousands of new players? Are you suggesting a couple thousand (like 2000-3000) or something much higher? Something in the tens of thousands?
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
This game isn't thriving. Everyone simply moved to Star, that's it and that's all. Look at the server stats, it's obvious.
I don't think SWG will ever truly die, there is a reason that SOE has it as part of the Station Pass. Anyone with the Station Pass can play it, and I spoke to 2 people who were playing last week because it was part of the Pass and they wanted to try it.
It's not like anyone is running out to try SWG. It's population hasn't grown in 4, maybe 5 years. Regardless of how optimistically you look at the SWG situation, only the most unreasonable and illogical people could claim SWG is growing.
Tecmo Bowl.
Well, I really don't have the time or inclination to get into a circular arguement with you and the fringers on this, you know I don't agree based on my personal experience of playing SWG and we've also established that people can log in and see for themselves and use the stats I put together as a rough guide in choosing a server.
Well, I really don't have the time or inclination to get into a circular arguement with you and the fringers on this, you know I don't agree based on my personal experience of playing SWG and we've also established that people can log in and see for themselves and use the stats I put together as a rough guide in choosing a server.
Yet you still wont even clarify your own claims.
Personally I think a claim of "thousands of new players" is rather vague and misleading without some kind of refined description. Isn't that a fair question to ask?
Not sure why you get so obsessed with the accounts I relate from my own personal experience. They are just that, not sure what you think you can change within my own perceptions.
You are often just nit-picking at my comments and cast dispersions on me and anything vaguley positive I post regarding SWG.
I wont be drawn into that, I suggest you not waste your time in future.
I don't believe I have ever tried to use the GCW stats as a way to gauge subscription numbers. I use them to gauge profession trends and server population distribution and I corrolate them with player city stats.
My view that SWG is doing fine, and that it is a healthy and growing MMORPG comes from my dealings with new and returning players in game.
Having played through periods of this game where new players were few and far between, times where hardly anyone was playing at all after the NGE I have seen what SWG looks like when it is dying and what is happening today is very far removed from that.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think it's simply a fair question. "Thousanads of new players" can translate anywhere from 2000 to 999,999. That's a pretty big gap IMO to leave open to interpretation.
Not sure why you get so obsessed with the accounts I relate from my own personal experience. They are just that, not sure what you think you can change within my own perceptions.
You are often just nit-picking at my comments and cast dispersions on me and anything vaguley positive I post regarding SWG.
I wont be drawn into that, I suggest you not waste your time in future.
Badger, you make statements like this all the time and then rarely back them up with a description of definition. It is just some vague "I see thousands of new players" comment that can mean anything.
You say swg is thriving and you see thousands of new players joining. How many do you see a week? On what servers? How many thousands of new players have your personal experiences led you to interact with and over how long a period of time?
I think you refuse to answer, because you know your experiences will not stand up to scrutiny. While I've never really counted I have a pretty good idea how long it would take me to interact or witness thousands of new people, but maybe your experience is different.
How about this if you don't want to get detailed about your own experiences to validate your claims. Where can someone else go to see this thriving population of new and returning players filling the ranks of the servers up? As you often say, anyone can go into the game and see it for themselves. So where is this place you go that shows you the truth of the population growth? Lets go there and see what it looks like.
As I said, try one of the busier servers, use my stats as a guide.
See how we go around in circles? I'm sure we can find something more interesting to talk about, I very much enjoy chatting to you chaps about SWG but let's not get bogged down in dull discussions.
As I said, try one of the busier servers, use my stats as a guide.
See how we go around in circles? I'm sure we can find something more interesting to talk about, I very much enjoy chatting to you chaps about SWG but let's not get bogged down in dull discussions.
I didn't find it a dull conversation at all, and I only see it getting "bogged down" when you refuse to clarify your very vague comments.
Had I made a comment saying thousands of players were leaving would you not like clarification on that, or at the very least present your version of "proof" to counter my claim?
I've spent a couple nights this past 2 weeks playing on the vet trial, and I don't agree with it being better than ever, yes better than early NGE but definitely not better than ever. The amount of exploiting is beyond amazing and I've already come across some annoying bugs and game crashes. And almost everyone is playing with that lame line of sight issue, there's even people that'll find a rock and stand around it to avoid you.
Jedi is still a lame profession, commando is OP and is set to "easy" mode, darkside Jedi, spy and officer hits like a truck, good medics are nearly impossible to take down. There's still a lack of balance through each profession, and I doubt there'll ever be anyways.
And LOL @ the super overpowered bomb droids on TC, over 20K unresisted damage from a probot droid?
Move over SWG and bring it on SWTOR!
I'm afriad that no matter how much you want this to be true due to your obvious hatred of all thing SoE, more and more new and returning players are filling out the ranks of SWG players every day.
I get the chance to speak to many of them in game and there is a recurring trend of SWG seeing an influx of WoW burnouts looking for a more engaging game world to play in, and SWG delivers that.
There is also plenty of sandbox gameplay in SWG, a number of my friends have put together awesome creations via the story teller system and run fun events.
Yep one of my very good friends works for SOE...she told me that SWG is every bit as profitable as their other games more so in some cases and all of their games are currently turning a profit....I undertsntd that the Vets will howl and deny this, she has no reason to lie. SOE is laughing at the "Vets" all the way to the bank. The only thing these screwballs have managed to do is get a negitive reputation in the MMO community, so much so that Bioware dosen't wnat them on thei forums and will perma ban them the moment they start their shit. One mabye they will get the therapy or closure the need.
SOE can laugh all they want. For my part, I've done most of what I've intended - given SOE and SWG as bad a reputation as they've earned, limiting the number of people who would ever take this game seriously, and doing my best to spread the news that SOE does not like/respect its customers. SWG's subscription numbers were supposed to eventually go through the roof with the NGE, surpassing previous highs and hitting at least Lineage levels. The most optimistic guesses I've heard put subscriptions at just under 100,000, which is a third of SWG's previous high, but that's still a very biased guess based on wishful thinking, much like the other extreme of 5000-10000 subs at the most. The truth lies in the middle somewhere, which means the actions of vets such as myself were a moderate success. After almost 4 years of NGE, it succeeded in getting rid of the people they were trying to get rid of - myself and 200,000 others like me - but did not attract the mythical audience it was designed to attract.
So you go ahead and enjoy SWG. Sounds like you have enough friends to play with, meaning you're on one of the populated servers (they used to ALL be populated). You may or may not have your own issues with the gameplay (doesn't sound like it, you seem willing to swallow whatever SOE deigns to give you). So you'll have fun and play in your own vacuum. Good for you! But there is nothing "screwball" about demanding accountability when you are a paying customer. The only vets who may fit that description are the ones who still pay SOE in the hopes that they'll see the error of their ways and revert to pre-CU, or open a separate server. The fact is, SOE used to piss on us and tell us it was raining. We figured it out, and left. SWG is down to the players that SOE doesn't have to lie to anymore - they will flat-out tell you they are pissing on you, and they know you won't leave no matter what.
What? what are you saying? cause all I hear from Badger's post all the way down to yours is:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! MY DIAPER NEEDS CHANGING!!!!
Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be.
Oh well such is life.
www.massively.com/2009/07/17/breaking-news-sony-online-entertainment-lays-off-41-full-time-w/#continued
I guess nothing says "Profitable and Successful" or "major money maker" like having to layoff 41 employees.
I can remember on Bria, going to Coronet starport and seeing 5 lines of Doctors selling 3-4hr duration buffs, each with like 15-20 players waiting in line at any given time, or walking into either Theed or Coronet cantina with a friend and having to /target her toon because I'd lost track of her in the crowds there. And when I was working on mastering Doctor I would visit my factory to load my backpack to go sit in Theed Med Center and heal people's battle fatigued stats. Within a couple hours I would be completely out of stims. That was when SWG was better than ever.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome!
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes...
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun!
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's!
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome! I stand and wait for a certain class to show up to get buffs in alot of games. Whats even better is when you cant even do anything without a healer or spank so you have to log.
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes... Ya, like spamming LFG for 20 minutes. SWG you got asked to join everywhere you went. But, xp slowed, respawning 30 minutes away, and having a hour long instance reset because someone in the group had to take a poo is so much better. Not to mention whatever lame death penalty they have. man other games are so much different.
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun! Shall we compare them to raiding? Even explaining how much worse they are makes me sick, so I'll just say, doing something comparable for a improved char, rather than gay looking gear is better any day of the week.
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...getting a job from an npc to go kill bol's OMG that is so much better. Its from an NPC so it has to be!!!! NPC's are so much better and actually make me beleive I want to go across the world to kill them, then I get to go all the way back...and for a muffin too. AWESOME!!! I get to do that for the entire game. In fact its the only thing I can do. And they spent 100 times more for it too.
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's! They do soe troll. You must have been one who didnt quit over the NGE.
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today. Other games dont have the profession system, so they are entirely grind-tastic crap with a toon someone else made for you.
Wanna do some more? How about you tell me what game your on, and I make fun of it. If I've even bothered with the POS. (please be WOW, please be WOW)
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I'm afriad that no matter how much you want this to be true due to your obvious hatred of all thing SoE, more and more new and returning players are filling out the ranks of SWG players every day.
I get the chance to speak to many of them in game and there is a recurring trend of SWG seeing an influx of WoW burnouts looking for a more engaging game world to play in, and SWG delivers that.
There is also plenty of sandbox gameplay in SWG, a number of my friends have put together awesome creations via the story teller system and run fun events.
Yep one of my very good friends works for SOE...she told me that SWG is every bit as profitable as their other games more so in some cases and all of their games are currently turning a profit....I undertsntd that the Vets will howl and deny this, she has no reason to lie. SOE is laughing at the "Vets" all the way to the bank. The only thing these screwballs have managed to do is get a negitive reputation in the MMO community, so much so that Bioware dosen't wnat them on thei forums and will perma ban them the moment they start their shit. One mabye they will get the therapy or closure the need.
SOE can laugh all they want. For my part, I've done most of what I've intended - given SOE and SWG as bad a reputation as they've earned, limiting the number of people who would ever take this game seriously, and doing my best to spread the news that SOE does not like/respect its customers. SWG's subscription numbers were supposed to eventually go through the roof with the NGE, surpassing previous highs and hitting at least Lineage levels. The most optimistic guesses I've heard put subscriptions at just under 100,000, which is a third of SWG's previous high, but that's still a very biased guess based on wishful thinking, much like the other extreme of 5000-10000 subs at the most. The truth lies in the middle somewhere, which means the actions of vets such as myself were a moderate success. After almost 4 years of NGE, it succeeded in getting rid of the people they were trying to get rid of - myself and 200,000 others like me - but did not attract the mythical audience it was designed to attract.
So you go ahead and enjoy SWG. Sounds like you have enough friends to play with, meaning you're on one of the populated servers (they used to ALL be populated). You may or may not have your own issues with the gameplay (doesn't sound like it, you seem willing to swallow whatever SOE deigns to give you). So you'll have fun and play in your own vacuum. Good for you! But there is nothing "screwball" about demanding accountability when you are a paying customer. The only vets who may fit that description are the ones who still pay SOE in the hopes that they'll see the error of their ways and revert to pre-CU, or open a separate server. The fact is, SOE used to piss on us and tell us it was raining. We figured it out, and left. SWG is down to the players that SOE doesn't have to lie to anymore - they will flat-out tell you they are pissing on you, and they know you won't leave no matter what.
What? what are you saying? cause all I hear from Badger's post all the way down to yours is:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! MY DIAPER NEEDS CHANGING!!!!
Although I dont necessarily agree with how this is being dealt with since its happened I had a similar thought awhile back when I found out that Sony corporation's largest money maker is in fact SOE and that when I spoke to someone about it when doing my bonds stuff at the bank they are apparently responsible for sony stocks retaining their high value at the moment. I then came to this forum awhile later and about the same thoughs came into my head about "disguntled vets" and how upset they must be.
Oh well such is life.
www.massively.com/2009/07/17/breaking-news-sony-online-entertainment-lays-off-41-full-time-w/#continued
I guess nothing says "Profitable and Successful" or "major money maker" like having to layoff 41 employees.
Doesn't necessarily mean it's none of these. Blizzard dumped 300 staff late last year but I wouldn't call them unsuccessful.
A SWG dev has revealed that the SWG team wasn't affected by the SOE layoffs. Infact, it seems SWG is even gaining a Dev that's transferring from EQ2.
Yeah standing line to get buffs was awesome!
I really wish they would being back the battle fatigue also,nothing beat standing around doing nothing for 20 or 30 minutes...
They should bring back the hologrind or any of the Jedi grinds also, that was great fun!
Oh...and the hours and hours of Bol grinding....man, those were the days...
They should put stuff like that in all MMO's!
The only redeeming quality the "old SWG" had was the profession system, the rest of the game was grind-tastic crap and it wouldn't last 15 minutes if they re-launched it today.
Buffs got out of hand for sure, but the buff lines in concept were an important part of the game. Just like battle fatigue and waiting for shuttles. It promoted community and the concepts were sound even though the mechanics were somewhat flawed.
Since then SOE has done almost everything possible to kill that community atmosphere by removing all the interdependancies and allowing anything a players needs to happen anywhere. How often do we hear people saying the game is populated, but not it towns, because there is no need to go there anymore. Just think about that.
Was original swg broken, yes. However it suffered something worse that a bad release. It suffered from a development company that was willing to do everthing BUT fix the base game. They canabalized the live team to make expansions, to revamp the entire base game, make another expansion and then make another expansion while revamping the entire base game a second time.
If they had just spent that first year fixing the game and adding content to it, things would have been better. I mean is it so hard ti imagine the possibility that some of the content that has been currently added could not have been done in 2004 instead of the direction soe took by ignoring the players to squeeze money out of expansions?
The original game lacked content big time, but it isn't something that could not have been fixed.