I have been postin here off and on. My current MMO is Runes of Magic. I play on a PVE server Oshe (i think i spelt it right) Some of you may know me as the annoying guy who always role play. "Thorion " is my character's name. He does speak in the King James style english but it is quite fun for me. It helps me enjoy the game and when I role play the character has certain attributes about himself, such as his fear for horses and a couple other things. He also rambles on when he is killing monsters about smiting them etc, even if not in a party I role play this. Most people I find enjoy his company and enjoy him being in their parties. Other's a few are real big jerks about it etc and call me obscene names etc and tells me to stop. Most of the names my character doesn't understand so I say something that usually gets the zone laughing, which is part of the fun of me roleyplaying the character. Anyways role playing should be in MMORPG's since they are RPG"s RP as in role playing.. thus I try to remind people of that by playing "Thorion" it is fun for me and if people don't want to they don't have too but if there is a game with dedicated role playing servers, one would think those servers would be for those who are like my self and seek to role play, thus those who don't have other options. Just my thoughts..
Just like to say there are some good people out there who enjoy roleplaying. Also, I've never, in the decade I've been playing MMORPGs, run into people who only roleplay because they want to be victims, so I don't know where that idea came from. Anyway, I've read a few of your articles Dana and some make sense, but to me this article was just extremely hurtful. Kind of like if you said to a woman who was raped, that most women who get raped enjoy it.
Overall this article was extremely offensive to me.
You know, considering most of you are casual and can't tell the difference between an asshat and a well played RP dick, it might be possible that most of you aren't empathic enough to realize Dana is right...to a degree. Maybe a lot of people got to RP servers to seek a more "mature" community and maybe when they run into "sirpwnsalot" they turn into the victimizing person Dana speaks about. It's not something you would even see, it would be a player ticket or feedback submitted by anyone any where without your knowledge.
For example, let's say Player A gets mad at Player B for metagaming. Player A might bring it to the attention of Player B and Player B might report them for harassment behind the scenes. Nobody would even know. This is the bullshit I imagine Dana is talking about. So many "Role players" try to exploit the system when they screw up by metagaming, and then they get angry. Is it so hard to imagine that they falesly report other players for breaking rules because of this? In a pen and paper game, this would almost never happen because it's pretty obvious when someone is just being a metagaming dickwad. In an MMORPG though, it might be less obvious.
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
Role players are simply rolling on rp servers to be victims? Rp griefers are more intelectually honest? What happened to Dana Massey on a rp server for him to be so bitter?
Role play servers use phrases such as whilst and thou? Not likely, and since you are citing WoW as your primary source for your "article" next time look into the lore, not even the characters in the game use ""whilst and thou."
All in all your article was an uninformed rant that did little more than belittle people who play on and frequent rp servers. I would expect better from someone who works for a website that promotes the rpg aspect of MMORPG.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Gee, you think?
You're entitled to your opinion but using your staff "powers" to make an article bashing a legit group of people deserves to be locked. Your thread was created to formally debate the topic. It was created because you got pissed off by a RPer and you excerised your title here to make the biggest damn thread about it.
Dana, remember when you rode my ass because you thought I did not spot check my star wars review as there was a couple grammar errors? Well, Karma sucks doesn't it? lol.
This "editorial opinion" should be locked for trolling.
I actually agree. This article is little more than a troll of rp server players. Dana Massey should know better considering he is the former editor of MMORPG.
So you had a bad experience on an rp server Dana, we get it. It is just a shame that you used that experience to create a bully pulpit.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
It is endemic of anyone in the media that they want to be as shocking and controversial as possible to get attention. Sometimes this backfires, like with the OP’s post.
Using my RP tools I have created a stake, built on kindling wood and fagots. We can tie him to it and light the match if you like. Just say the word.
It is endemic of anyone in the media that they want to be as shocking and controversial as possible to get attention. Sometimes this backfires, like with the OP’s post. Using my RP tools I have created a stake, built on kindling wood and fagots. We can tie him to it and light the match if you like. Just say the word.
Thank you Scot, I choked on my coffee...
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
This isn't an article, it's a thinly veiled verbal assault against a certian playstyle. Articles are not supposed to take sides or state the writer's opinions as if they were truth. I mean seriously Dana, you don't even TRY to disguise it as an article, the freakin' NAME is 'The Myth of Role-Playing Servers'. The title of the rant is basically trying to quote itself for truth. Even when you admit that there may be an exception to the rule, you immediatley discredit yourself afterwards on purpose in order to try to prove your point on several occasions. Exaggerated Example: "I realise that there may be decent rp'ers out there but they are so few and far-between that they're hardly worth mentioning." That kind of writing is bullshit. It doesn't matter if the article is The Myth of Role-Playing Servers or the The Joy of Role-Playing servers if all you do is ramble on about your personal opinion and use writing trick to sound subjective and informed when you're really not. I'm sure if the article was "Are Role-Playing Servers a Myth?" and allowed both sides of the issue equal time and consideration, and maybe if you did a little bit of research into the subject instead of relying on your own speculation it would have been much better. In short, MMORPG.com should not be treated like a refrigerator door for the journalists to stick any half-assed thought on for all the world to see. This kind of journalism reflects badly on you, and in turn the website your writing represents.
I'm not speaking about the content of the article on way or another, but I WOULD like to point out that this was an OPINION piece. Disagree with the opinion, sure, but you're dressing it down because it IS an opinion.... which is the point of each of the five featured columns every week.
I'm not bashing the column because it's an opinion, I'm bashing it because it's a poorly thought out rant, and nothing more. Sanya was able to write a good column which has researched facts, well stated opinions and even some suggestions about how to improve the situation, which in turn led to the intelligent discussion Dana claims to have wanted to start.
If the point of the five weekly columns is just to offer an opinion on the internet, then why don't you just fire the professionals and hire unskilled schmucks off the street to do it for half the pay? Because you want quality articles.
So either the point of the weekly columns is to have well-thought out articles or to have the writers put out any damn thought that happens to float through thier head. If the latter is the case, I would like to apply for all the writer's jobs. I could easily write five columns a week by myself, and I'll do it for half the pay.
So, in the interest of fair disclosure, which of your sponsors encouraged you to trash the concept of RP servers?
Maybe the same guys who asked you to write an article about how what MMORPGs really need to succeed is to target their minimum system requirements on what the average gamer possessed for hardware eight years ago?
I don't mind the huge influx of ads and special sponsors on the site, as long as the content maintains it's integrity. However, it's really starting to feel like you are selling out.
How long until we start seeing glowing reviews for games that wouldn't have even been viable if they had come out eight years ago?
As to RP servers, even when half the people on them don't know what RP is and 1% of the RPers are "RP Nazis", the servers are still almost always better to play on than the non-RP servers.
The real myth is that RP servers are a failed concept no matter what. The reason there are so many problems with RP servers is that the game companies don't take the concept seriously enough. The added workload of trying to placate complaints issued by players on these servers stems from lack of seriousness in establishing rules from the beginning and enforcing them.
If players were forced to explicitly acknowledge and agree to the rules of RP servers before they could join one and could face the very real threat of having their characters booted from such a server if they blatantly flaunt those rules, the enforcement workload would quickly settle down to the same levels seen on other servers. It's the very real impression, reinforced by the developers, that the rules don't really matter and that the expectations that you will RP on a RP server are next to nil that cause all the trouble.
There is a potentially large financial benefit for an MMORPG publisher with a solid game to offer an RP server where the RP rules are enforced the same way any of the other ToS are enforced. A real, solid RP community can keep a title healthy and afloat long after the power leveler and lulz crowds move on to the next, best thing. Unfortunately, most companies have done a very poor job nurturing RP communities for their titles.
BTW, the concept that RPers aren't themselves true to the concept if they have any out of character communications is ludicrous. I'd be a little worried about the sanity of someone who insisted on 100% of their communications being in character with no exceptions. RP in /say is the crucial part. RP in other open channels is a matter of policy; RP rules for parties/guilds are up to those individuals.
To expect otherwise would be akin to expecting actors in a play to remain in character 100% of the time while behind the scenes, or expecting a parent who likes to embellish storytelling by doing character voices to tell the entire story in a funny voice.
I know that with the RP / anti-RP split among serious MMORPG fans you must have felt it would be safe to write such an article, knowing you'd find support no matter how flawed your argument was. Well, fine, but it still feels like you are really pandering to potential sponsors, or maybe even to a cadre of "insiders" with whom you are desperate to fit in with. Last I checked, though, this was a site for MMORPG fans, not an insiders site for developers and CSRs to commiserate on the "sad state of our ignorant, obnoxious customer base".
It's not the fault of the player base that so many titles fail, or fall far short of expectations. It's flawed development. It's not the fault of RPers that so many RP servers fail to offer what they promise, or become sources of conflict and contention; it's lack of clarity on the rules and serious enforcement of those rules by the developers.
To claim that RP server rules are unenforceable and only lead to an unnecessary waste of GM manpower is akin to claiming that rules against gold selling, hacking, racism, sexually explicit talk and harassment are unenforceable and only lead to an unnecessary waste of GM manpower. It's the lack of willingness to enforce the rules as any other rule set forth in the ToS that leads to the mish-mash we find on most MMORPG RP designated servers.
Journalism is no place for the jaded. Just because the RP community wouldn’t accept you is no reason to run around belittling the honour system that RP communities rely on. As you grow up you will find that not everything in life is quantifiable. Some things rely more on unwritten rules, than on hard and fast expectations. Your inability to see and comprehend the subtle nuances of online culture is outstanding.
Ok, everyones getting it by now; Danas full of crap, enough already... Just stop feeding the troll now.
The logic would make sense if this was a normal thread as it would make its way to the bottom. However, this shoddy material is published right on the front webpage of the site in huge, big, glowing lights.
Admin, needs to treat this thread like a troll thread; lock, delete and warn the op
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Every game has them, no one truly uses them. This week, Dana explores the myth of role-playing servers in MMOs. Dana's columns appear every Thursday. Soon after the first few MMOs trickled out the door, developers came up with something else, much darker, much fouler. They called it the Role Playing Server. You’ve all heard of them. Almost every MMO has one. They’re these special servers, with special conduct rules where people are supposed to play nice, leave the real world out of it and get really into their characters. It’s a good idea and God bless the role-players out there who love them. But, I am here today to tell you something. These servers are a myth. They’re not real. They’re like unicorns and Playboy bunnies. They’re an impossibility.
RP in WoW exists, but one have to look for it because it is not happening all the time. The most popular RP server in WoW is Moonguard. After playing in that server for 3 years, I can say it could be a disappointment for new players that do not know the state of RP affairs in that server. The advise I give to people is to join a RP guild.
Although there are people that follow RP rules, the best bet is to join a guild. One must keep in mind that this is a video game, mostly targeted to teenagers. Do I have to say more? When teenage hormones go out of control it could ruin your RP experience at the point one must disable the general chat. That's when people realize that a RP guild is necessary. Last time I check there were military oriented guilds and some cultists/evil guilds and "Light-pushers" guilds.
It is good to join a RP guild because they usually organize guild events. For those that do not like to join guilds, an alternative is to ask in general chat . Chances are there are people looking for a RP fix. *shrugs*
This column is a juvenile attempt at creating a stir. Well, I guess it did what it set out to do. 200+ replies, nothing in this world is black n white, which includes RP servers. I'm tired of the RP bashing. Enjoy your 2 minutes of mmorpg column fame. The column is a total waste of bandwidth.. And here i go contributing to it. Oops.
Journalism is no place for the jaded. Just because the RP community wouldn’t accept you is no reason to run around belittling the honour system that RP communities rely on. As you grow up you will find that not everything in life is quantifiable. Some things rely more on unwritten rules, than on hard and fast expectations. Your inability to see and comprehend the subtle nuances of online culture is outstanding. And I'm not even a roleplayer...
Your articles are usually good, but reading that i felt like i was reading a rp bashing post written by some kid on the wow general forums. Really was like some sort of anti-rp propaganda. Absolute tripe.
I think there's a lot of 'douche-baggy biased opinion' laced in that article and many douche-baggy people will agree with what's stated to make themselves feel better about being douche-bags.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
I think, if Wish was ever made, the major part of it's playerbase would've been RPers, so there is an irony in this. Oh, well, Dana, lucky it failed in the end, isn't it?
"Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes."
Underneath all the baiting, I think Dana has a point.
I'm generally alright with the article except for one line:
"It’s time to face the fact that no video game, noRPG, let alone MMORPG, has ever truly fostered role-playing. "
I believe that MMORPGs can foster roleplay, and do foster roleplay, when the design makes it just as easy to roleplay than to not roleplay. Because I'm of the thought that if it is easy for a player to follow continuity, players (even non-roleplayers) will generally follow continuity. However, most games make it a hard and convoluted process to follow continuity, which then makes roleplaying a hard, convoluted, and ultimately self-defeating pursuit.
Dana already mentions EVE, which is funny, because EVE is probably the worst platform for roleplaying there is, mechanically speaking. There are no avatars (just character portraits), no RP servers, no environments besides space, and no cosmetic customization. All EVE has is four chat channels for the four races, and thousands of players have create a strong roleplaying network just on the basis of what goes on in there and in the roleplaying forums. The key to EVE's success as a roleplaying platform is that it is just as easy to follow continuity as to not. As a result, people generally roleplay.
Perhaps the best platform for roleplaying I've seen is Star Wars Galaxies. It had everything EVE had...and a whole lot more. There were literally hundreds of places in the game that the artists created that have no mechanical purpose other than to provide environments congenial to roleplay. There are thousands of items that can be created to customize characters and customize environments. Speaking of environments, the player-placed structures provided a huge opportunity for roleplaying environments. However, like EVE, SWG had no roleplaying servers.
So I have to agree with Dana's assessment that roleplaying servers don't make a roleplaying game easy to roleplay in. If the game is truly a good platform for roleplay, it will need no roleplaying servers, and people will naturally roleplay because there is no conflict between acting in-character and acting in a free way, no matter what server a player chooses.
I generally have a few rules of thumb for fostering good roleplay:
1) Modern and sci-fi games generally foster roleplay better than medieval, fantasy games. That's because sci-fi and modern games are easier for we 21st century people to relate to. Nobody needs to speak in "thee" and "thou," and nobody has to follow strange codes of conduct that are not condusive to our times. That makes it easy for non-roleplayers to "get" what the fiction is about, and creates less resistance between the player and the lore. /Tells, global chat, and voice chat are a lot more "roleplay friendly" when the lore offers a reasonable, technological explanation for these conveniences.
2) Games that are based in something people know are better for roleplay than games where people have to learn a whole new fiction. I don't believe the roleplay in Star Wars Galaxies would have been as good if it didn't have the Star Wars movies for players to relate to. Everybody already knew how to roleplay--and wanted to roleplay--because they all saw the movies, and would just as well "play along" than "play against" the fiction. But WoW? All people have is the RTS to go on, and even there, one really gets no sense of how these people live or how the world is supposed to function.
3) Games that give many spaces for roleplay are better able to foster roleplay than games that have fewer spaces. Spaces can be defined in terms of time or places. If there is a lot of time where action doesn't take place (like travelling in EVE), roleplay will develop to pass the time. If there are plenty of spaces that are set aside for players to use as they see fit (like the places in SWG), players will use them for roleplay.
See, the problem is that most games these days do not do the above three well. Hence, they need to do "stopgap" measures of enforcing RP, like creating RP servers. But as Dana points out, a game isn't automatically goping to become "roleplay friendly" just because it is designated as a roleplaying reservation. Because if the game were truly a good platform for roleplay, it wouldn't need to declare roleplaying servers. All servers would be roleplaying servers, because the game would be designed in such a way as people would want to roleplay, or at least be able to play in a way as to not cause a conflict with continuity.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The article started out ok but then went too far. I knew a ton of true RP'ers in Wow. They didn't slip out of character, they genuinely liked RP. My entire guild of over 100 hundred was like that (mostly). And no fiction to sink into? An outright lie, these games have writers that sit around writing backstory, true RP'ers read it all and incorporate it into their RP.
Want to see real RP Dana? Shadowclan was the guild that set the standard, possibly a thousand members have been in our ranks over the last 10 years, we purposefully put ourselves at a disadvantage in games like UO to enhance the gaming experience for everybody. I find your article tasteless and offensive.
Shadowclan.org
There is a player behind every one of these orcs. This was the Catskills server in UO.
Comments
Absolutely great article. Hits the nail on the head.
Hello,
I have been postin here off and on. My current MMO is Runes of Magic. I play on a PVE server Oshe (i think i spelt it right) Some of you may know me as the annoying guy who always role play. "Thorion " is my character's name. He does speak in the King James style english but it is quite fun for me. It helps me enjoy the game and when I role play the character has certain attributes about himself, such as his fear for horses and a couple other things. He also rambles on when he is killing monsters about smiting them etc, even if not in a party I role play this. Most people I find enjoy his company and enjoy him being in their parties. Other's a few are real big jerks about it etc and call me obscene names etc and tells me to stop. Most of the names my character doesn't understand so I say something that usually gets the zone laughing, which is part of the fun of me roleyplaying the character. Anyways role playing should be in MMORPG's since they are RPG"s RP as in role playing.. thus I try to remind people of that by playing "Thorion" it is fun for me and if people don't want to they don't have too but if there is a game with dedicated role playing servers, one would think those servers would be for those who are like my self and seek to role play, thus those who don't have other options. Just my thoughts..
God Bless,
Dustin
Just like to say there are some good people out there who enjoy roleplaying. Also, I've never, in the decade I've been playing MMORPGs, run into people who only roleplay because they want to be victims, so I don't know where that idea came from. Anyway, I've read a few of your articles Dana and some make sense, but to me this article was just extremely hurtful. Kind of like if you said to a woman who was raped, that most women who get raped enjoy it.
Overall this article was extremely offensive to me.
You know, considering most of you are casual and can't tell the difference between an asshat and a well played RP dick, it might be possible that most of you aren't empathic enough to realize Dana is right...to a degree. Maybe a lot of people got to RP servers to seek a more "mature" community and maybe when they run into "sirpwnsalot" they turn into the victimizing person Dana speaks about. It's not something you would even see, it would be a player ticket or feedback submitted by anyone any where without your knowledge.
For example, let's say Player A gets mad at Player B for metagaming. Player A might bring it to the attention of Player B and Player B might report them for harassment behind the scenes. Nobody would even know. This is the bullshit I imagine Dana is talking about. So many "Role players" try to exploit the system when they screw up by metagaming, and then they get angry. Is it so hard to imagine that they falesly report other players for breaking rules because of this? In a pen and paper game, this would almost never happen because it's pretty obvious when someone is just being a metagaming dickwad. In an MMORPG though, it might be less obvious.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
This entire article was biased;
Role players are simply rolling on rp servers to be victims? Rp griefers are more intelectually honest? What happened to Dana Massey on a rp server for him to be so bitter?
Role play servers use phrases such as whilst and thou? Not likely, and since you are citing WoW as your primary source for your "article" next time look into the lore, not even the characters in the game use ""whilst and thou."
All in all your article was an uninformed rant that did little more than belittle people who play on and frequent rp servers. I would expect better from someone who works for a website that promotes the rpg aspect of MMORPG.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
Gee, you think?
You're entitled to your opinion but using your staff "powers" to make an article bashing a legit group of people deserves to be locked. Your thread was created to formally debate the topic. It was created because you got pissed off by a RPer and you excerised your title here to make the biggest damn thread about it.
Dana, remember when you rode my ass because you thought I did not spot check my star wars review as there was a couple grammar errors? Well, Karma sucks doesn't it? lol.
This "editorial opinion" should be locked for trolling.
I actually agree. This article is little more than a troll of rp server players. Dana Massey should know better considering he is the former editor of MMORPG.
So you had a bad experience on an rp server Dana, we get it. It is just a shame that you used that experience to create a bully pulpit.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
It is endemic of anyone in the media that they want to be as shocking and controversial as possible to get attention. Sometimes this backfires, like with the OP’s post.
Using my RP tools I have created a stake, built on kindling wood and fagots. We can tie him to it and light the match if you like. Just say the word.
Thank you Scot, I choked on my coffee...
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
Ok, everyones getting it by now; Danas full of crap, enough already... Just stop feeding the troll now.
I'm not speaking about the content of the article on way or another, but I WOULD like to point out that this was an OPINION piece. Disagree with the opinion, sure, but you're dressing it down because it IS an opinion.... which is the point of each of the five featured columns every week.
I'm not bashing the column because it's an opinion, I'm bashing it because it's a poorly thought out rant, and nothing more. Sanya was able to write a good column which has researched facts, well stated opinions and even some suggestions about how to improve the situation, which in turn led to the intelligent discussion Dana claims to have wanted to start.
If the point of the five weekly columns is just to offer an opinion on the internet, then why don't you just fire the professionals and hire unskilled schmucks off the street to do it for half the pay? Because you want quality articles.
So either the point of the weekly columns is to have well-thought out articles or to have the writers put out any damn thought that happens to float through thier head. If the latter is the case, I would like to apply for all the writer's jobs. I could easily write five columns a week by myself, and I'll do it for half the pay.
So, in the interest of fair disclosure, which of your sponsors encouraged you to trash the concept of RP servers?
Maybe the same guys who asked you to write an article about how what MMORPGs really need to succeed is to target their minimum system requirements on what the average gamer possessed for hardware eight years ago?
I don't mind the huge influx of ads and special sponsors on the site, as long as the content maintains it's integrity. However, it's really starting to feel like you are selling out.
How long until we start seeing glowing reviews for games that wouldn't have even been viable if they had come out eight years ago?
As to RP servers, even when half the people on them don't know what RP is and 1% of the RPers are "RP Nazis", the servers are still almost always better to play on than the non-RP servers.
The real myth is that RP servers are a failed concept no matter what. The reason there are so many problems with RP servers is that the game companies don't take the concept seriously enough. The added workload of trying to placate complaints issued by players on these servers stems from lack of seriousness in establishing rules from the beginning and enforcing them.
If players were forced to explicitly acknowledge and agree to the rules of RP servers before they could join one and could face the very real threat of having their characters booted from such a server if they blatantly flaunt those rules, the enforcement workload would quickly settle down to the same levels seen on other servers. It's the very real impression, reinforced by the developers, that the rules don't really matter and that the expectations that you will RP on a RP server are next to nil that cause all the trouble.
There is a potentially large financial benefit for an MMORPG publisher with a solid game to offer an RP server where the RP rules are enforced the same way any of the other ToS are enforced. A real, solid RP community can keep a title healthy and afloat long after the power leveler and lulz crowds move on to the next, best thing. Unfortunately, most companies have done a very poor job nurturing RP communities for their titles.
BTW, the concept that RPers aren't themselves true to the concept if they have any out of character communications is ludicrous. I'd be a little worried about the sanity of someone who insisted on 100% of their communications being in character with no exceptions. RP in /say is the crucial part. RP in other open channels is a matter of policy; RP rules for parties/guilds are up to those individuals.
To expect otherwise would be akin to expecting actors in a play to remain in character 100% of the time while behind the scenes, or expecting a parent who likes to embellish storytelling by doing character voices to tell the entire story in a funny voice.
I know that with the RP / anti-RP split among serious MMORPG fans you must have felt it would be safe to write such an article, knowing you'd find support no matter how flawed your argument was. Well, fine, but it still feels like you are really pandering to potential sponsors, or maybe even to a cadre of "insiders" with whom you are desperate to fit in with. Last I checked, though, this was a site for MMORPG fans, not an insiders site for developers and CSRs to commiserate on the "sad state of our ignorant, obnoxious customer base".
It's not the fault of the player base that so many titles fail, or fall far short of expectations. It's flawed development. It's not the fault of RPers that so many RP servers fail to offer what they promise, or become sources of conflict and contention; it's lack of clarity on the rules and serious enforcement of those rules by the developers.
To claim that RP server rules are unenforceable and only lead to an unnecessary waste of GM manpower is akin to claiming that rules against gold selling, hacking, racism, sexually explicit talk and harassment are unenforceable and only lead to an unnecessary waste of GM manpower. It's the lack of willingness to enforce the rules as any other rule set forth in the ToS that leads to the mish-mash we find on most MMORPG RP designated servers.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Journalism is no place for the jaded. Just because the RP community wouldn’t accept you is no reason to run around belittling the honour system that RP communities rely on. As you grow up you will find that not everything in life is quantifiable. Some things rely more on unwritten rules, than on hard and fast expectations. Your inability to see and comprehend the subtle nuances of online culture is outstanding.
And I'm not even a roleplayer...
FINBAR
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The logic would make sense if this was a normal thread as it would make its way to the bottom. However, this shoddy material is published right on the front webpage of the site in huge, big, glowing lights.
Admin, needs to treat this thread like a troll thread; lock, delete and warn the op
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Read it all here.
RP in WoW exists, but one have to look for it because it is not happening all the time. The most popular RP server in WoW is Moonguard. After playing in that server for 3 years, I can say it could be a disappointment for new players that do not know the state of RP affairs in that server. The advise I give to people is to join a RP guild.
Although there are people that follow RP rules, the best bet is to join a guild. One must keep in mind that this is a video game, mostly targeted to teenagers. Do I have to say more? When teenage hormones go out of control it could ruin your RP experience at the point one must disable the general chat. That's when people realize that a RP guild is necessary. Last time I check there were military oriented guilds and some cultists/evil guilds and "Light-pushers" guilds.
It is good to join a RP guild because they usually organize guild events. For those that do not like to join guilds, an alternative is to ask in general chat . Chances are there are people looking for a RP fix. *shrugs*
In conclusion, RP guilds are the best option.
This column is a juvenile attempt at creating a stir. Well, I guess it did what it set out to do. 200+ replies, nothing in this world is black n white, which includes RP servers. I'm tired of the RP bashing. Enjoy your 2 minutes of mmorpg column fame. The column is a total waste of bandwidth.. And here i go contributing to it. Oops.
The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer
well said
The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer
Your articles are usually good, but reading that i felt like i was reading a rp bashing post written by some kid on the wow general forums. Really was like some sort of anti-rp propaganda. Absolute tripe.
I think there's a lot of 'douche-baggy biased opinion' laced in that article and many douche-baggy people will agree with what's stated to make themselves feel better about being douche-bags.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
I think, if Wish was ever made, the major part of it's playerbase would've been RPers, so there is an irony in this. Oh, well, Dana, lucky it failed in the end, isn't it?
"Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes."
Underneath all the baiting, I think Dana has a point.
I'm generally alright with the article except for one line:
"It’s time to face the fact that no video game, noRPG, let alone MMORPG, has ever truly fostered role-playing. "
I believe that MMORPGs can foster roleplay, and do foster roleplay, when the design makes it just as easy to roleplay than to not roleplay. Because I'm of the thought that if it is easy for a player to follow continuity, players (even non-roleplayers) will generally follow continuity. However, most games make it a hard and convoluted process to follow continuity, which then makes roleplaying a hard, convoluted, and ultimately self-defeating pursuit.
Dana already mentions EVE, which is funny, because EVE is probably the worst platform for roleplaying there is, mechanically speaking. There are no avatars (just character portraits), no RP servers, no environments besides space, and no cosmetic customization. All EVE has is four chat channels for the four races, and thousands of players have create a strong roleplaying network just on the basis of what goes on in there and in the roleplaying forums. The key to EVE's success as a roleplaying platform is that it is just as easy to follow continuity as to not. As a result, people generally roleplay.
Perhaps the best platform for roleplaying I've seen is Star Wars Galaxies. It had everything EVE had...and a whole lot more. There were literally hundreds of places in the game that the artists created that have no mechanical purpose other than to provide environments congenial to roleplay. There are thousands of items that can be created to customize characters and customize environments. Speaking of environments, the player-placed structures provided a huge opportunity for roleplaying environments. However, like EVE, SWG had no roleplaying servers.
So I have to agree with Dana's assessment that roleplaying servers don't make a roleplaying game easy to roleplay in. If the game is truly a good platform for roleplay, it will need no roleplaying servers, and people will naturally roleplay because there is no conflict between acting in-character and acting in a free way, no matter what server a player chooses.
I generally have a few rules of thumb for fostering good roleplay:
1) Modern and sci-fi games generally foster roleplay better than medieval, fantasy games. That's because sci-fi and modern games are easier for we 21st century people to relate to. Nobody needs to speak in "thee" and "thou," and nobody has to follow strange codes of conduct that are not condusive to our times. That makes it easy for non-roleplayers to "get" what the fiction is about, and creates less resistance between the player and the lore. /Tells, global chat, and voice chat are a lot more "roleplay friendly" when the lore offers a reasonable, technological explanation for these conveniences.
2) Games that are based in something people know are better for roleplay than games where people have to learn a whole new fiction. I don't believe the roleplay in Star Wars Galaxies would have been as good if it didn't have the Star Wars movies for players to relate to. Everybody already knew how to roleplay--and wanted to roleplay--because they all saw the movies, and would just as well "play along" than "play against" the fiction. But WoW? All people have is the RTS to go on, and even there, one really gets no sense of how these people live or how the world is supposed to function.
3) Games that give many spaces for roleplay are better able to foster roleplay than games that have fewer spaces. Spaces can be defined in terms of time or places. If there is a lot of time where action doesn't take place (like travelling in EVE), roleplay will develop to pass the time. If there are plenty of spaces that are set aside for players to use as they see fit (like the places in SWG), players will use them for roleplay.
See, the problem is that most games these days do not do the above three well. Hence, they need to do "stopgap" measures of enforcing RP, like creating RP servers. But as Dana points out, a game isn't automatically goping to become "roleplay friendly" just because it is designated as a roleplaying reservation. Because if the game were truly a good platform for roleplay, it wouldn't need to declare roleplaying servers. All servers would be roleplaying servers, because the game would be designed in such a way as people would want to roleplay, or at least be able to play in a way as to not cause a conflict with continuity.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The article started out ok but then went too far. I knew a ton of true RP'ers in Wow. They didn't slip out of character, they genuinely liked RP. My entire guild of over 100 hundred was like that (mostly). And no fiction to sink into? An outright lie, these games have writers that sit around writing backstory, true RP'ers read it all and incorporate it into their RP.
I think his post was pretty good and hit the nail on the head in many areas, and all the responses you see here just goes to show the truth hurts.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Oh look, another philistine on the sidewalk.
" In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! "
An EVE advert.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Want to see real RP Dana? Shadowclan was the guild that set the standard, possibly a thousand members have been in our ranks over the last 10 years, we purposefully put ourselves at a disadvantage in games like UO to enhance the gaming experience for everybody. I find your article tasteless and offensive.
Shadowclan.org
There is a player behind every one of these orcs. This was the Catskills server in UO.
Play a role! Shadowclan