Nobody gave damn about it on Aionsource and no one cares on MMORPG.COM. You need to try hard dude.
yeah that's why this thread has 1,500+ views cause nobody cares...oh wait.
But anyway yes the wide random numbers seem a bit strange (snare for 4-16 seconds?). But remember in WoW there is a lot of randomness too, crit chance for example. No fight is ever really the same especially if you work in teams.
View counts has nothing to do with actual comments. You fail at logic.
Well saying nobody gives a crap is seriously stupid cause that's not true. He does bring up A LOT of good points.
The issues that the OP brings up are a major deal in one on one or small party encounters. How much of a issue will the random stuns/ abilities, gear differential, consumables, and OP abilities mean in a RvR game is up for discussion.
I do not like relying on random abilities. I also do not like the high level of consumables present. However, if that is the sum of the problems in Aion, I will still be enjoying the game.
Originally posted by catlana Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Getalife Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Getalife Nobody gave damn about it on Aionsource and no one cares on MMORPG.COM. You need to try hard dude.
yeah that's why this thread has 1,500+ views cause nobody cares...oh wait. But anyway yes the wide random numbers seem a bit strange (snare for 4-16 seconds?). But remember in WoW there is a lot of randomness too, crit chance for example. No fight is ever really the same especially if you work in teams.
View counts has nothing to do with actual comments. You fail at logic. Well saying nobody gives a crap is seriously stupid cause that's not true. He does bring up A LOT of good points.
The issues that the OP brings up are a major deal in one on one or small party encounters. How much of a issue will the random stuns/ abilities, gear differential, consumables, and OP abilities mean in a RvR game is up for discussion.
I do not like relying on random abilities. I also do not like the high level of consumables present. However, if that is the sum of the problems in Aion, I will still be enjoying the game.
I do think it'll be something that all of us need to experience though to make up our minds. Like I said Lineage II was very RNG centric, even in combat a lot of times, yet that game still felt quite balanced most of the time (even though FoTM classes always exist).
I've always wondered why some games have practically mandatory consumables which you must apply every couple minutes. Funny thing is usually everyone uses the same consumables, thus removing any effect they might have. What will they add to the overall gameplay? More buttons to press once in a while?
Maybe they're just a moneysink to milk more /played from users...
Originally posted by Harakiri Maybe they're just a moneysink to milk more /played from users...
Doesn't that make them a timesink? :P
But, let's not forget that WoW is just as much a RNG as any other MMO out there. Base 5% Miss rate. This can be reduced via hit rating, but then I presume that Aion will also have this hit rating.
Same with all other Block/Parry/Dodge chances.
But can I point out, WoW has been released November 23, 2004. That means it has been in development for (almost) 5 years. Comparing WoW to Aion is sort of unfair, as a lot of the "problems" you have noted are subject to change.
And, the arguements you gave, most notably, the Cast Timing one, we're only added VERY recently.
The Combo one: same can be the same with PvE in WoW. Missing a spell (in the case of a mage) can screw up your rotation fully, thus lowering your DPS, and you either have to adapt, or start from scratch.
I see the RNG a way to make people have to think more.
EG: Stun Misses -> Force character to Change his next skill in order to improve his survivability.
Sun Hits -> Attack misses -> Force character to change his next skill in order to attempt to do as much damage in the stun time.
And, you say simplicity in this game. Isn't wow exactly like that? There are rotations of spells that people use in order to min-max their DPS. They all use the same Talent builds as the well progressed/progressing guilds use, and base their skill usage on the skills they see top guilds use.
Broken? There are some skills that have long cooldowns as well. Rebirth, Reincarnation, Divine Intervention. These skills are used as a last resort, and often to help you survive, or as wipe-prevention.
Again, you listed a skill that was very recently changed. WoW = Almost 5 Years old, Aion = About 1 Year.
The CC removing potion is the equivalent of the Insignia of Horde/Alliance. Correct? They both have cooldowns (At least I believe the potion has a cooldown, correct me if I am wrong).
The major difference between these are one is equipped, the other is a potion.
Without the Insignia, you can be considered screwed in PvP, unless you have a racial trait that acts similiarly (Human).
Here's a newsflash: most of life is about luck. Skill keeps you in the game, but luck wins the game.
I have no problem with the RNG as long as it operates within reason. I wouldn't want to play a game where every mechanic I execute was guaranteed to hit in the expected fashion for the expected amount. Talk about Stepford-world.
Having leveled to 40 on the Korean Retail and enrolled/playing NA beta (when open) I can say that OP is trying to convince himself more than anyone else that Aion is trash. Hate to say it but unless you experience Aion as a whole you will never understand.
If I would compare a game to Aion it would have to be Lineage 2 as they have a lot of the same things (such as those consumables some people are raging about). The PVP encounters are indeed skill based and aren't calculated like some other MMO's PVP (You're savior; WoW) so the PVP tends to sway back and forth very fluidly. RNG alleviates perma-cc or possibility of it, having it not down to a calculation makes every battle a different experience and even as a rogue you can still win a battle if somehow none of your CC even lands, you just have to be smart with how you play your character and not use the same routine done in WoW. (Which build is the flavor of the month? Sucks doesn't it).
If you rank up to the Top 10 you can become a "hero" / "guardian" which you do become very powerful, thing is it comes with a cost. Wherever you go, people know where you are (not exact location but enough information is given to players) so a good group can take you down very easily if you're not careful.
When it comes down to it, if you believe everything you've written and don't think the game will last at all why would you CARE enough to share it with other people you won't ever have a chance to convince? You only look like a childish troll that is upset or threatened by another game, just go back to playing WoW and be happy. Let others make the decision for themselves, it's their money.
Having leveled to 40 on the Korean Retail and enrolled/playing NA beta (when open) I can say that OP is trying to convince himself more than anyone else that Aion is trash. Hate to say it but unless you experience Aion as a whole you will never understand. If I would compare a game to Aion it would have to be Lineage 2 as they have a lot of the same things (such as those consumables some people are raging about). The PVP encounters are indeed skill based and aren't calculated like some other MMO's PVP (You're savior; WoW) so the PVP tends to sway back and forth very fluidly. RNG alleviates perma-cc or possibility of it, having it not down to a calculation makes every battle a different experience and even as a rogue you can still win a battle if somehow none of your CC even lands, you just have to be smart with how you play your character and not use the same routine done in WoW. (Which build is the flavor of the month? Sucks doesn't it). If you rank up to the Top 10 you can become a "hero" / "guardian" which you do become very powerful, thing is it comes with a cost. Wherever you go, people know where you are (not exact location but enough information is given to players) so a good group can take you down very easily if you're not careful. When it comes down to it, if you believe everything you've written and don't think the game will last at all why would you CARE enough to share it with other people you won't ever have a chance to convince? You only look like a childish troll that is upset or threatened by another game, just go back to playing WoW and be happy. Let others make the decision for themselves, it's their money.
OP, Where did the links to descriptions of weapons come from? If from Beta your supposed to stick to the NDA but I dont care im just curious if its from the Korean ver. using the patch. If so maybe they missed translation for numbers. Thanks very much for the time and effort in that post. Lots of information. The numbers just seem weird but the pics prove them in writing. I did not experience anything out of the ordinary with cooldowns, etc. but then again didnt get char maxed out. Their I just blew the NDA myself.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Originally posted by Heretique Having leveled to 40 on the Korean Retail and enrolled/playing NA beta (when open) I can say that OP is trying to convince himself more than anyone else that Aion is trash. Hate to say it but unless you experience Aion as a whole you will never understand. If I would compare a game to Aion it would have to be Lineage 2 as they have a lot of the same things (such as those consumables some people are raging about). The PVP encounters are indeed skill based and aren't calculated like some other MMO's PVP (You're savior; WoW) so the PVP tends to sway back and forth very fluidly. RNG alleviates perma-cc or possibility of it, having it not down to a calculation makes every battle a different experience and even as a rogue you can still win a battle if somehow none of your CC even lands, you just have to be smart with how you play your character and not use the same routine done in WoW. (Which build is the flavor of the month? Sucks doesn't it).If you rank up to the Top 10 you can become a "hero" / "guardian" which you do become very powerful, thing is it comes with a cost. Wherever you go, people know where you are (not exact location but enough information is given to players) so a good group can take you down very easily if you're not careful.When it comes down to it, if you believe everything you've written and don't think the game will last at all why would you CARE enough to share it with other people you won't ever have a chance to convince? You only look like a childish troll that is upset or threatened by another game, just go back to playing WoW and be happy. Let others make the decision for themselves, it's their money.
Great post. I'm glad to see my comparisons to Lineage II PvP wern't too far off the mark. Good thing too, Lineage II has some of the best PvP in any game -- it's too bad that it's way too grindy for my tastes.
Well I tried to read most of your post, but the incessant references to WoW was making me throw up in my mouth a little.
Wow was not a good PvP game, and for good reason this game is not a WoW clone with regards to PvP. What's the point of trying to change this game till its identical to WoW(Which seems to be what you are suggesting,right?)
To be honest you should probably just continue playing WoW if you think its so perfect, because many of us don't.
Pretty much spot-on on all points you make, original poster... Still, comparing wow to aion is pointless, because wow, when it stands on its own is also boring (once you reach the "endgame", and understand what it's about, quintessentially), and pvp is in a terrible state, regardless of whether it is better or worse than that of other games; arena is no more than a race to blow things up, bgs are only intended for farming, and world pvp is no more than (in the instance of wintergrasp) a way to farm pvp currency to get more passable gear, to get into a league, to get more passable gear, to ultimately... gain a title, and a mount, and in other types of world pvp, no more than ganking.
All this really amounts to and says about mmorpgs and their communities is that the games they play do not advance quickly enough to satiate their puerile impetus for constant progression and mindless violence and what they really desire is something which they can keep taking from, and complaining about, while having no explicit stake in or connection to... the capitalist mentality really! And, as seen on forums such as these, constant begging and searching for something that will.
The funny thing is that, as far as i can discern, what people did enjoy about their play time, was the journey to reach some vague goal, before becoming disillusioned with it, once having done so. They acquire a lot of precious little memories, of small comedy and jovial comraderie, but, become nostalgic for something which they don't quite understand, and thus chase after things in a similar environment, hoping that that will -tick their gigglebit- in the same way.
The thing is, once you've understood a game, any game, thouroughly, it's no longer much fun, unless you have people to play it with, who are also fun to be around. That's something technology oriented people just never seem to able to grasp, that you can play mario kart, and not worry about the graphics, because it will still be fun, if you play it at a party, as the dynamics of games laregely stay the same anyway (and each time the dynamics shift slightly it's a "REVOLUSHUN"). In summary, it is not really the search for a new product, but a passtime, with friends, an outlet, and an environment in which to test things, taken to the extreme, a private hell, one willfully confines oneself to.
So, those few should be so lucky, who, with a bad memory, can carry the rock up the hill like sisyphus, throughout eternity, and enjoy it, may well find mmorpgs to be their cup of tea. For the rest, who can make even a little use of their intellect, it will reveal itself to be a hollow search after the powerful illusion of progress, which, when it comes down to it, is no more than the representation of power to smite (or help smite by other means) scripted "enemies" and other "enemy-players" in a private universe and attain, teh phat l3wts... ...enemies who are simply fulfilling their objectives, in very linear way (be it code for the "npcs" or very similar objectives to those of yours, on the "other side" of the player base). And by means of "art" and mathematical statistics this progress is ubiquitous, all orchestrated/ constructed to set the player on an eternal mission, of which any part in itself is simple enough to accomplish, but designed to never be accomplished in its entirety. There is no point to it, and people pay money for this illusion, and even more money to be "good" at it, and even more to have "money in it", a variant in some arbitrary line of code, which happens to be "money", and before you say, there is little point to doing this in the "real world", there is infinitely more point to doing it, because in the virtual world, you are dealing with representations of objects, instead of actual objects (magic money, magic food, magic magic).
All in all it's as when a person analyzes a joke, picks it apart, tells you why it's not funny, and doesn't realize, after all, the joke is on them, for not being able to understand it, because their blind pedantry and over-analysis obscure it to them. And what are the alternatives to these people? Single-player games are too short, and real life is boring and too hard for most of the carebears that play it, because they simply refuse to take some role in it and put any real effort into it, thus they are given roles to fulfill, and whinge about, because they cannot imagine their own. If anyone were truly searching for a game in which skill and tactical prowess were measured, chess would surely jump right out at them. And if they wanted to be stimulated in audio-visual ways, what's wrong with film? At least it is about something. It's this accursed middle ground, between thinking and watching, which is neither in the end that is, what we call, a computer game. ...People are forever waiting for things to happen to them, instead of actually making things happen... How about, you, who have read and understood this, become someone who actually makes something happen, eh?
Dude, its just a game that's meant to be fun.I think your level of intellect is just above such trivial endeavors.Maybe you should go contemplate the meaning of the universe in a corner somewhere.
OP, Where did the links to descriptions of weapons come from? If from Beta your supposed to stick to the NDA but I dont care im just curious if its from the Korean ver. using the patch. If so maybe they missed translation for numbers. Thanks very much for the time and effort in that post. Lots of information. The numbers just seem weird but the pics prove them in writing. I did not experience anything out of the ordinary with cooldowns, etc. but then again didnt get char maxed out. Their I just blew the NDA myself.
They lifted the NDA prior to CB3.
If the OP got his numbers from the www.aionarmory.com/ then they might be wrong. Some of the info in there is incorrect.
nvm, He is a wow fan, no point in continuing this topic. It would be pointless.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I complete red the main post of this thread. And I only have one thing to say. WOW has damaged very much to gamers world. Has created a new race of newbyes gamers that want to reach top lvl , and top stuff in 2 months. And want that pvp and figths be always predictable.
This is not wow, wow is an funny easy game, but this is aion, stop thinking that the games have to be like wow. Real mmorpg gamers hate WOW. WoW always have been a mmorpg to capricious gamers. Thats all!
OP most 99% have not played Aion and have no clue to the simplicity of the game. The second you use the word 'WOW' your going to lose people. EW a "wall of text" these are people you really dont want to even talk to. They dont read lol..
Should have told them what its like to die after level 25 and the cost lmao.. most will not like that.
I complete red the main post of this thread. And I only have one thing to say. WOW has damaged very much to gamers world. Has created a new race of newbyes gamers that want to reach top lvl , and top stuff in 2 months. And want that pvp and figths be always predictable. This is not wow, wow is an funny easy game, but this is aion, stop thinking that the games have to be like wow. Real mmorpg gamers hate WOW. WoW always have been a mmorpg to capricious gamers. Thats all! Raytan!
Agree that using wow as an example is ratehr poor. DAOC would have been better imo.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think all the OP has done is proven how threatend Warcraft fanbois are by Aion . This is such an obvious troll thread . I mean he did nt even have the guts to come on here under his main mmorpg.com account .
Well dont be worried Warcraft will always retain the children that play it . Blizzard appear to have made a consious decision to aim the game at a very young audiance by making the game increasingly easier . Its a policy thats been very successful but because of it a lot of people like me left they game simply because we felt Blizzard had taken out a lot of the fun aspects of the game in favour of short term gain . I enjoyed warcraft a lot in its first two years the battles we had around tauren mill and southshore were a lot of fun . I know a lot of players that currently play Warcraft that are really looking forward to Aion . It ll be great to have another mmorpg out there thats a huge success . OK it may not be so good for Blizzard but they can afford to lose a few million players and maybe if Aion breaks its virtual manopoly they might actually start listening thier customers and start working harder for your buck . The way it may effect the hardcore WoW fans most is that they see a lot of thier friends spending time in Aion . I cant say i wont play WoW again but at present i m not missing it one iota I found the community to be increasingly like a virtual schoolyeard and community is nearly as important as gameplay for me in an mmo .
You forgot to say that WOTLK Arena and PvP is shit compared to TBC even with your "positive" changes. And yes, TBC was exactly the opposite of your "WoW's good parts": You could barely get a 1.5 sec cast spell if a rogue was on you, Macestun proc was amazingly annoying and RNG/RNG resistance talents were at home. And guess what? TBC was far better than the current PvP, where skillknights can insta-gib you in 3 gcds with no counter. So yeah...
WoW's pvp is shit, but this game's will prove to be far worse. You guys hated the High Warlord system, yet somehow this game's nearly identical ABYSS POINTS system is forgiveable?
I want to start off by saying, I read the entire post the OP put up. I agree with him 100%. Now that being said...allow me to elaborate. WOW's system works for WOW very well. For the type of people that enjoy mathmatic equations of perfecting combat through stat stacking. An example is 540 def or something to prevent being crit from raid bosses. Where is the fun in that? I mean honestly I would rather have the best gear and still have a challenge when I try to run an instance or pvp.
Now I enjoyed wow for what it was for the last 5 years or so. Honestly it was very boring for me, and lacked any real challenge, at least after TBC was nerfed the game went downhill fast for me. I enjoyed WOTLK because it was more an older style WOW environment however It was even easier then TBC. At that point for me WOW failed.
Now Im not going to say Aion is better then WOW or the other way around. Aion offers something that I have been looking for, for a very long time. That is a challenge, I want to earn my keep in an MMO, and one thing i think that modern MMO's needed was a valid death penalty. EQ got it 100% right when they forced you to loose exp and levels when you died. That prevented players from treating the game with no respect by not having consequences. Dont talk about wow's death penalty because they didnt have one, durability reduction was useless because the dailies and items dropped gave you more than enough cash to avoid taking a serious hit.
RNG in Aion is sorely welcomed, WoW has dumbed down combat way too much for my tastes (again nothing against wow), where everything depended on which class is OP for that patch period. No wow players can argue, that every patch gave specific classes a huge advantage in pvp and pve. TBC was Stunlock rogues with maces, WOTLK with retadins 3 shotting people and DK's eating casters alive. And even pre-bc wow had its shaman eating paladins issue with their WF procs using 2 handers (how many ppl remember that?).
In close, I have played both games, and they cater to different people completely. For me, Aion is the game I have been waiting for since EQ. In fact Aion is my modern EQ, and I am happy to have seen it make its return. Not all wow players are idiots, and not all Aion players are rude. I hope that some of the WoW players will give Aion a shot instead of reading forum nonsense.
RNG is a really bad way of "adding challenge" becuase its about luck not about skill or tactics. Basiclly, instead of rng aion should have made a better combat and movement coding/engine and made alot of posistional, reactionary, situational, and other styles and abilities.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
RNG is a really bad way of "adding challenge" becuase its about luck not about skill or tactics. Basiclly, instead of rng aion should have made a better combat and movement coding/engine and made alot of posistional, reactionary, situational, and other styles and abilities.
From my understanding, RNG adds flavor to any game. That ofcourse is just me, and RNG requires more skill and tactics then non RNG. Again I feel that going into battle 25 vs 8 for example, Its nice that RNG gives the game to whoever can react the best under random circumstances. In reality nothing is guranteed, everything even things that are thought to be 100% are never 100%. Again its a player preference, as I said in my other post.
Nothing wrong with Non - RNG games, however they arent as challenging imho. There is nothing challenging about stun-locking your opponent 100% of the time when your 3 min cd's are up. Now, when they pop a trink and get out of that stun, and a random chaotic element is thrown into your equation, how you react is ultimately what skill really is. And you will know who has more skill...because one of you will walk away while the other is waiting for a 30 sec rez timer at the grave yard.
I think most of you missed his points, of which, from a decade+ of MMO experience I believe he has several valid ones.
Forget about the abysmal pvp in wow. I loved XR and the original AV too. The rest of it can get stuffed. What Blizzard DID do right however was learn from its own mistakes in several ways, and continue to make improvements over years.
You can only balance classes in pvp within the control measures of the class itself. An overabundance of variables like stacks of consumables makes fighting on an even field a joke. Fine, argue the merits of randomness in LANDING x spell or hit vs. diminishing returns, or calculated counter measures, or whatever. If that's all it was, it would just take getting used to. But the fact is - you should be able to casually pvp and, if your SKILL is up there, you should be able to compete with people who have more playing time, period. Having skills that require little or no movement to their variables is not good. Being able to overpower another, not with a better set of gear you have earned, but with consumables that stack and require gold that only those with endless time on their hands can keep up with just turns pvp into a gold farming prerequisite fest. That sorta takes the fun out of the competition.
Save grinding for mats, tradeskills, lvling. PvP should be able your individual skills, and your ability to work together with players on your side to out fight the opposing team.
Good hunting,
Malikye Now Playing: WaW2 Played: EQ - 5.5 yrs, WoW - 4.5 yrs, Diablo, Myth2, Tried: AoC (played it about 3 times that month), WAR (fun for a month), RoM (sorta, Aion (for 2 months), Allods (bored at lvl 13). Waiting for: DC Universe, Diablo 3 Own: Atari 2600, NES, Game Boy, GBA SP, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, Modded Xbox, Wii, PS3, PSP, gaming PCs Sold like a dumb@$$: SNES Broke: PS1 Melted in a fire: Turbograhpx 16 w/ a ton of games Gave Away to a child: Nintendo 64
I think most of you missed his points, of which, from a decade+ of MMO experience I believe he has several valid ones. Forget about the abysmal pvp in wow. I loved XR and the original AV too. The rest of it can get stuffed. What Blizzard DID do right however was learn from its own mistakes in several ways, and continue to make improvements over years. You can only balance classes in pvp within the control measures of the class itself. An overabundance of variables like stacks of consumables makes fighting on an even field a joke. Fine, argue the merits of randomness in LANDING x spell or hit vs. diminishing returns, or calculated counter measures, or whatever. If that's all it was, it would just take getting used to. But the fact is - you should be able to casually pvp and, if your SKILL is up there, you should be able to compete with people who have more playing time, period. Having skills that require little or no movement to their variables is not good. Being able to overpower another, not with a better set of gear you have earned, but with consumables that stack and require gold that only those with endless time on their hands can keep up with just turns pvp into a gold farming prerequisite fest. That sorta takes the fun out of the competition. Save grinding for mats, tradeskills, lvling. PvP should be able your individual skills, and your ability to work together with players on your side to out fight the opposing team.
but that does nt happen in wow the pvp is all zerg and kill as many of the opposing side as possible in the battlegrounds .the reason why wows pvp in them is so bad in the battlegrounds is that its a grind win or lose you know you ll get decent enough honor to buy whatever epics you want . why bother with learning tactics and having some fun interesting pvp when you know you can grind loses and get there almost as fast . same with the instances . just do them again and again till your lucky enough to get the drop for you and when you do what do you do with it ? theres no real world pvp anymore where the armor and weapons you have makes one itoa of difference .
that aside its funny this was ment to be a trolling thread but what comes across if anything it strengthens Aion as a game . i did nt expect a wowkiller but i m really starting to wonder now .
Comments
yeah that's why this thread has 1,500+ views cause nobody cares...oh wait.
But anyway yes the wide random numbers seem a bit strange (snare for 4-16 seconds?). But remember in WoW there is a lot of randomness too, crit chance for example. No fight is ever really the same especially if you work in teams.
View counts has nothing to do with actual comments. You fail at logic.
Well saying nobody gives a crap is seriously stupid cause that's not true. He does bring up A LOT of good points.
The issues that the OP brings up are a major deal in one on one or small party encounters. How much of a issue will the random stuns/ abilities, gear differential, consumables, and OP abilities mean in a RvR game is up for discussion.
I do not like relying on random abilities. I also do not like the high level of consumables present. However, if that is the sum of the problems in Aion, I will still be enjoying the game.
yeah that's why this thread has 1,500+ views cause nobody cares...oh wait.
But anyway yes the wide random numbers seem a bit strange (snare for 4-16 seconds?). But remember in WoW there is a lot of randomness too, crit chance for example. No fight is ever really the same especially if you work in teams.
View counts has nothing to do with actual comments. You fail at logic.
Well saying nobody gives a crap is seriously stupid cause that's not true. He does bring up A LOT of good points.
The issues that the OP brings up are a major deal in one on one or small party encounters. How much of a issue will the random stuns/ abilities, gear differential, consumables, and OP abilities mean in a RvR game is up for discussion.
I do not like relying on random abilities. I also do not like the high level of consumables present. However, if that is the sum of the problems in Aion, I will still be enjoying the game.
I do think it'll be something that all of us need to experience though to make up our minds. Like I said Lineage II was very RNG centric, even in combat a lot of times, yet that game still felt quite balanced most of the time (even though FoTM classes always exist).
I've always wondered why some games have practically mandatory consumables which you must apply every couple minutes. Funny thing is usually everyone uses the same consumables, thus removing any effect they might have. What will they add to the overall gameplay? More buttons to press once in a while?
Maybe they're just a moneysink to milk more /played from users...
Doesn't that make them a timesink? :P
But, let's not forget that WoW is just as much a RNG as any other MMO out there. Base 5% Miss rate. This can be reduced via hit rating, but then I presume that Aion will also have this hit rating.
Same with all other Block/Parry/Dodge chances.
But can I point out, WoW has been released November 23, 2004. That means it has been in development for (almost) 5 years. Comparing WoW to Aion is sort of unfair, as a lot of the "problems" you have noted are subject to change.
And, the arguements you gave, most notably, the Cast Timing one, we're only added VERY recently.
The Combo one: same can be the same with PvE in WoW. Missing a spell (in the case of a mage) can screw up your rotation fully, thus lowering your DPS, and you either have to adapt, or start from scratch.
I see the RNG a way to make people have to think more.
EG: Stun Misses -> Force character to Change his next skill in order to improve his survivability.
Sun Hits -> Attack misses -> Force character to change his next skill in order to attempt to do as much damage in the stun time.
And, you say simplicity in this game. Isn't wow exactly like that? There are rotations of spells that people use in order to min-max their DPS. They all use the same Talent builds as the well progressed/progressing guilds use, and base their skill usage on the skills they see top guilds use.
Broken? There are some skills that have long cooldowns as well. Rebirth, Reincarnation, Divine Intervention. These skills are used as a last resort, and often to help you survive, or as wipe-prevention.
Again, you listed a skill that was very recently changed. WoW = Almost 5 Years old, Aion = About 1 Year.
The CC removing potion is the equivalent of the Insignia of Horde/Alliance. Correct? They both have cooldowns (At least I believe the potion has a cooldown, correct me if I am wrong).
The major difference between these are one is equipped, the other is a potion.
Without the Insignia, you can be considered screwed in PvP, unless you have a racial trait that acts similiarly (Human).
Just my 2pence.
Here's a newsflash: most of life is about luck. Skill keeps you in the game, but luck wins the game.
I have no problem with the RNG as long as it operates within reason. I wouldn't want to play a game where every mechanic I execute was guaranteed to hit in the expected fashion for the expected amount. Talk about Stepford-world.
Having leveled to 40 on the Korean Retail and enrolled/playing NA beta (when open) I can say that OP is trying to convince himself more than anyone else that Aion is trash. Hate to say it but unless you experience Aion as a whole you will never understand.
If I would compare a game to Aion it would have to be Lineage 2 as they have a lot of the same things (such as those consumables some people are raging about). The PVP encounters are indeed skill based and aren't calculated like some other MMO's PVP (You're savior; WoW) so the PVP tends to sway back and forth very fluidly. RNG alleviates perma-cc or possibility of it, having it not down to a calculation makes every battle a different experience and even as a rogue you can still win a battle if somehow none of your CC even lands, you just have to be smart with how you play your character and not use the same routine done in WoW. (Which build is the flavor of the month? Sucks doesn't it).
If you rank up to the Top 10 you can become a "hero" / "guardian" which you do become very powerful, thing is it comes with a cost. Wherever you go, people know where you are (not exact location but enough information is given to players) so a good group can take you down very easily if you're not careful.
When it comes down to it, if you believe everything you've written and don't think the game will last at all why would you CARE enough to share it with other people you won't ever have a chance to convince? You only look like a childish troll that is upset or threatened by another game, just go back to playing WoW and be happy. Let others make the decision for themselves, it's their money.
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
OP, Where did the links to descriptions of weapons come from? If from Beta your supposed to stick to the NDA but I dont care im just curious if its from the Korean ver. using the patch. If so maybe they missed translation for numbers. Thanks very much for the time and effort in that post. Lots of information. The numbers just seem weird but the pics prove them in writing. I did not experience anything out of the ordinary with cooldowns, etc. but then again didnt get char maxed out. Their I just blew the NDA myself.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Great post. I'm glad to see my comparisons to Lineage II PvP wern't too far off the mark. Good thing too, Lineage II has some of the best PvP in any game -- it's too bad that it's way too grindy for my tastes.
Well I tried to read most of your post, but the incessant references to WoW was making me throw up in my mouth a little.
Wow was not a good PvP game, and for good reason this game is not a WoW clone with regards to PvP. What's the point of trying to change this game till its identical to WoW(Which seems to be what you are suggesting,right?)
To be honest you should probably just continue playing WoW if you think its so perfect, because many of us don't.
I don't think its too simple nor broken from what I see. Sounds like someone wants to complain so i'll feed the trolls.. here's a cookie.
Dude, its just a game that's meant to be fun.I think your level of intellect is just above such trivial endeavors.Maybe you should go contemplate the meaning of the universe in a corner somewhere.
They lifted the NDA prior to CB3.
If the OP got his numbers from the www.aionarmory.com/ then they might be wrong. Some of the info in there is incorrect.
nvm, He is a wow fan, no point in continuing this topic. It would be pointless.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I complete red the main post of this thread. And I only have one thing to say. WOW has damaged very much to gamers world. Has created a new race of newbyes gamers that want to reach top lvl , and top stuff in 2 months. And want that pvp and figths be always predictable.
This is not wow, wow is an funny easy game, but this is aion, stop thinking that the games have to be like wow. Real mmorpg gamers hate WOW. WoW always have been a mmorpg to capricious gamers. Thats all!
Raytan!
OP most 99% have not played Aion and have no clue to the simplicity of the game. The second you use the word 'WOW' your going to lose people. EW a "wall of text" these are people you really dont want to even talk to. They dont read lol..
Should have told them what its like to die after level 25 and the cost lmao.. most will not like that.
Agree that using wow as an example is ratehr poor. DAOC would have been better imo.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think all the OP has done is proven how threatend Warcraft fanbois are by Aion . This is such an obvious troll thread . I mean he did nt even have the guts to come on here under his main mmorpg.com account .
Well dont be worried Warcraft will always retain the children that play it . Blizzard appear to have made a consious decision to aim the game at a very young audiance by making the game increasingly easier . Its a policy thats been very successful but because of it a lot of people like me left they game simply because we felt Blizzard had taken out a lot of the fun aspects of the game in favour of short term gain . I enjoyed warcraft a lot in its first two years the battles we had around tauren mill and southshore were a lot of fun . I know a lot of players that currently play Warcraft that are really looking forward to Aion . It ll be great to have another mmorpg out there thats a huge success . OK it may not be so good for Blizzard but they can afford to lose a few million players and maybe if Aion breaks its virtual manopoly they might actually start listening thier customers and start working harder for your buck . The way it may effect the hardcore WoW fans most is that they see a lot of thier friends spending time in Aion . I cant say i wont play WoW again but at present i m not missing it one iota I found the community to be increasingly like a virtual schoolyeard and community is nearly as important as gameplay for me in an mmo .
You forgot to say that WOTLK Arena and PvP is shit compared to TBC even with your "positive" changes. And yes, TBC was exactly the opposite of your "WoW's good parts": You could barely get a 1.5 sec cast spell if a rogue was on you, Macestun proc was amazingly annoying and RNG/RNG resistance talents were at home. And guess what? TBC was far better than the current PvP, where skillknights can insta-gib you in 3 gcds with no counter. So yeah...
*The Aion MMORPG.com forums successfully beats the stupid troll OP away, and as this is my Portal Day, I must celebrate*
This was a triumph,
I'm making a note here,
HUGE SUCCESS,
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction.......
*and so on and so forth*
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WoW's pvp is shit, but this game's will prove to be far worse. You guys hated the High Warlord system, yet somehow this game's nearly identical ABYSS POINTS system is forgiveable?
Hey,
I want to start off by saying, I read the entire post the OP put up. I agree with him 100%. Now that being said...allow me to elaborate. WOW's system works for WOW very well. For the type of people that enjoy mathmatic equations of perfecting combat through stat stacking. An example is 540 def or something to prevent being crit from raid bosses. Where is the fun in that? I mean honestly I would rather have the best gear and still have a challenge when I try to run an instance or pvp.
Now I enjoyed wow for what it was for the last 5 years or so. Honestly it was very boring for me, and lacked any real challenge, at least after TBC was nerfed the game went downhill fast for me. I enjoyed WOTLK because it was more an older style WOW environment however It was even easier then TBC. At that point for me WOW failed.
Now Im not going to say Aion is better then WOW or the other way around. Aion offers something that I have been looking for, for a very long time. That is a challenge, I want to earn my keep in an MMO, and one thing i think that modern MMO's needed was a valid death penalty. EQ got it 100% right when they forced you to loose exp and levels when you died. That prevented players from treating the game with no respect by not having consequences. Dont talk about wow's death penalty because they didnt have one, durability reduction was useless because the dailies and items dropped gave you more than enough cash to avoid taking a serious hit.
RNG in Aion is sorely welcomed, WoW has dumbed down combat way too much for my tastes (again nothing against wow), where everything depended on which class is OP for that patch period. No wow players can argue, that every patch gave specific classes a huge advantage in pvp and pve. TBC was Stunlock rogues with maces, WOTLK with retadins 3 shotting people and DK's eating casters alive. And even pre-bc wow had its shaman eating paladins issue with their WF procs using 2 handers (how many ppl remember that?).
In close, I have played both games, and they cater to different people completely. For me, Aion is the game I have been waiting for since EQ. In fact Aion is my modern EQ, and I am happy to have seen it make its return. Not all wow players are idiots, and not all Aion players are rude. I hope that some of the WoW players will give Aion a shot instead of reading forum nonsense.
RNG is a really bad way of "adding challenge" becuase its about luck not about skill or tactics. Basiclly, instead of rng aion should have made a better combat and movement coding/engine and made alot of posistional, reactionary, situational, and other styles and abilities.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
From my understanding, RNG adds flavor to any game. That ofcourse is just me, and RNG requires more skill and tactics then non RNG. Again I feel that going into battle 25 vs 8 for example, Its nice that RNG gives the game to whoever can react the best under random circumstances. In reality nothing is guranteed, everything even things that are thought to be 100% are never 100%. Again its a player preference, as I said in my other post.
Nothing wrong with Non - RNG games, however they arent as challenging imho. There is nothing challenging about stun-locking your opponent 100% of the time when your 3 min cd's are up. Now, when they pop a trink and get out of that stun, and a random chaotic element is thrown into your equation, how you react is ultimately what skill really is. And you will know who has more skill...because one of you will walk away while the other is waiting for a 30 sec rez timer at the grave yard.
I think most of you missed his points, of which, from a decade+ of MMO experience I believe he has several valid ones.
Forget about the abysmal pvp in wow. I loved XR and the original AV too. The rest of it can get stuffed. What Blizzard DID do right however was learn from its own mistakes in several ways, and continue to make improvements over years.
You can only balance classes in pvp within the control measures of the class itself. An overabundance of variables like stacks of consumables makes fighting on an even field a joke. Fine, argue the merits of randomness in LANDING x spell or hit vs. diminishing returns, or calculated counter measures, or whatever. If that's all it was, it would just take getting used to. But the fact is - you should be able to casually pvp and, if your SKILL is up there, you should be able to compete with people who have more playing time, period. Having skills that require little or no movement to their variables is not good. Being able to overpower another, not with a better set of gear you have earned, but with consumables that stack and require gold that only those with endless time on their hands can keep up with just turns pvp into a gold farming prerequisite fest. That sorta takes the fun out of the competition.
Save grinding for mats, tradeskills, lvling. PvP should be able your individual skills, and your ability to work together with players on your side to out fight the opposing team.
Good hunting,
Malikye
Now Playing: WaW2
Played: EQ - 5.5 yrs, WoW - 4.5 yrs, Diablo, Myth2,
Tried: AoC (played it about 3 times that month), WAR (fun for a month), RoM (sorta, Aion (for 2 months), Allods (bored at lvl 13).
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but that does nt happen in wow the pvp is all zerg and kill as many of the opposing side as possible in the battlegrounds .the reason why wows pvp in them is so bad in the battlegrounds is that its a grind win or lose you know you ll get decent enough honor to buy whatever epics you want . why bother with learning tactics and having some fun interesting pvp when you know you can grind loses and get there almost as fast . same with the instances . just do them again and again till your lucky enough to get the drop for you and when you do what do you do with it ? theres no real world pvp anymore where the armor and weapons you have makes one itoa of difference .
that aside its funny this was ment to be a trolling thread but what comes across if anything it strengthens Aion as a game . i did nt expect a wowkiller but i m really starting to wonder now .