But you're not denying that gear makes all the difference in the world are you? Or that there are overpowered classes that get cycled through consistently. Both of which make an average player look better than their actual skills when competing against other less geared or optimal classes.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
But you're not denying that gear makes all the difference in the world are you? Or that there are overpowered classes that get cycled through consistently. Both of which make an average player look better than their actual skills when competing against other less geared or optimal classes.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft. 0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
I don't really understand why so many people find the effect gear has on pvp such a big deal.
I think Gear should have a big effect on PVP, that increases the satisfaction you get from receiving a good, powerful item.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft. 0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
My last 2 years in WoW were just something to do, along with a lot of other people i know. So it does happen heh.
I didn't say random people, but I don't consider 57 a large enough number.
WoW is easy to start out in. There is hardly any diversity in the game. Thats the way it was designed. Raid or pvp, both of which get boring very fast in WoW. Why people enjoy it is beyond me. If you like the game fine by me, personally I think the game sucks
Edit: The only Blizzard game I really liked was Warcraft 2.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this. I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
I don't really understand why so many people find the effect gear has on pvp such a big deal.
I think Gear should have a big effect on PVP, that increases the satisfaction you get from receiving a good, powerful item.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
MMORPG.com needs to put in code so that whenever you wrote a post Gameloading, that thread just ends because you sir are the best poster I have ever seen.
Even if people don't agree with you, they are dumb because your logic is infallable.
But you're not denying that gear makes all the difference in the world are you? Or that there are overpowered classes that get cycled through consistently. Both of which make an average player look better than their actual skills when competing against other less geared or optimal classes.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
DaoC Pre-ToA was not so gear reliant. You could get close to stat caps with dropped loot from dungeons or you could use player crafter gear + drops to fnish you your template. Either way the difference between a person who min/maxed stats wasn't as great as they are in WOW.
Also , DaoC had much greater team pvp than any mmo out, which is why there are so many people who still hold DaoC as the only true RvR experience. It was DaoC RvR that had a large part in getting players to try Warhammer, many players from wow, but Mythic screwed the pooch on that one.
Which is my whole complaint about loot/items not being playercraftered. I want everyone at end game to have an easier time getting geared up, so when I fight them, we are on a more level playing field. I want the mmo experience to be more than about a giant hunt for loot, because that's pretty much all wow is. Get gear to do a dungeon, so you can get gear to do another dungeon, get gear so you can compete in the arena, hopefully get better ranking so you can get better gear and win more often in the arena. Do wintergrasp, arathi basin, warsong gulch so you can get tokens to buy better gear.....
Only hardcore achiever players and developers thinks its fair and right to only allow raiders to experience the highest progression a game has to offer. How many WoW players participate in raids exactly? We KNOW they are in the minority, yet they always get exclusive content. To make matters worse, their reward system gives them unfair advantages in other types of content. Raiding is an example of the worst kind of elitist social structure. Just because it works as a business model, doesn't even remotely mean it's the better way to do things. It's certainly the lazy way to do things from a developer's perspective. They already know that casuals will tolerate this bullcrap as long as they can re-roll or if they are given token rewards that have the appearance of being epic, but are still trash compared to hardcore rewards.
Like a previous poster said, Blizzard has mastered the bait and switch. They remain popular because they are still the best this genre has to offer at the moment, but just like EverQuest, they will tank when someone finally has the balls to offer a better alternative for casuals.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Easy to learn, hard to master. You're going to get arguments about how the "easy", when applied to WoW, is simply grind, and the "hard" is gear-dependant, time consuming, repetitive raiding and PvP (like Arena, which a very small percent of the WoW population actually enjoys - they just do it for the gear). Easy to learn, hard to master is the right philosophy, though. Interesting to see how SW: TOR will pan out, then, since the devs have stated they're not going to cater to hardcores - their focus will be "fun" throughout the whole game. Does that mean there will still be hard-to-master end-game raids and PvP? I'm pretty sure, yes. But hopefully SW: TOR will not be as gear dependant as WoW, and the progression will be a little easier so as to cater to casuals who want to raid, not "hardcores". We'll see.
I dunno once you hit 70+ in WoW you have to make right choices on how to spec out your character to make them effective. It's really easy to make a bad choice in those skill trees that will gimp a character.
Google ---> How to spec my huntard? + What rotation I use for dps? -----> Mastered!
Lol at worst (Oh no I spec'd wrong........15gold ah fixed)
I play'd a hunter in WoW for about a year and thats what I hated about the game, they have exact specs they are supposed to have. If you didn't have the cookie cutter 51/20/0 (I think thats what it was) then you couldn't get into a raid.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
Just to make a point.
1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that)
2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs.
3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it.
4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again.
5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft.
0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
What does that prove? Many MMOs have high metacritic scores, the standards for MMOs has never been that high, reviewers are just happy it doesnt run like first gen 3D MMOs. WAR has an 86 metacritic score and look how popular that game is here. Professional reviewers dont have the time to accurately review a MMO, all they get to see is a small aspect of the total package.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this. I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
I don't really understand why so many people find the effect gear has on pvp such a big deal.
I think Gear should have a big effect on PVP, that increases the satisfaction you get from receiving a good, powerful item.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
MMORPG.com needs to put in code so that whenever you wrote a post Gameloading, that thread just ends because you sir are the best poster I have ever seen.
Even if people don't agree with you, they are dumb because your logic is infallable.
Educated opinion > any opinon
WRONG. It just means it is a great game for those 11 million people. There are one billion chinese people. They eat chinese food, does that make chinese food great?
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft. 0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
Though you have to admit, they did enjoy the game at one time, or else they wouldn't still be playing it.
Bingo....we have a winner lol. I beleive this makes up about 80% of the group of people bitching about the game and cutting down those that still enjoy it.
Just to make a point. 1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that) 2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs. 3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it. 4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again. 5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
Ah so because you don't like something you don't play it?
... but you want a completely different genre of games changed to meet YOUR expectations because you don't want to play something else....
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft. 0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
My last 2 years in WoW were just something to do, along with a lot of other people i know. So it does happen heh.
I didn't say random people, but I don't consider 57 a large enough number.
WoW is easy to start out in. There is hardly any diversity in the game. Thats the way it was designed. Raid or pvp, both of which get boring very fast in WoW. Why people enjoy it is beyond me. If you like the game fine by me, personally I think the game sucks
Edit: The only Blizzard game I really liked was Warcraft 2.
I didn't want to suggest there were no people who just play it because they want something to do, but I think 10% of a 11 million subscriber base game is pretty big (well before the problems with WoW China anyway)
I don't really understand why the number needs to be larger than 57, especialy when the game in question had a subscriber base of 11 million.
I don't really agree with you on WoW having hardly any diversity. You say raid or pvp, but nobody is forcing you to do any of that. You're free to create a new character, join the other faction and pick another class.
I think the classes and environments are diverse enough. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I think the Raid and PVP areas are primarily there as "time sink", so that Blizzard can develop new content or a next expansion.
I think there is just enough diversity in World of Warcraft. It knows what it's trying to do and it sticks to that formula and because of that, it doesn't suffer from having an identity crisis.
I didn't want to suggest there were no people who just play it because they want something to do, but I think 10% of a 11 million subscriber base game is pretty big (well before the problems with WoW China anyway) I don't really understand why the number needs to be larger than 57, especialy when the game in question had a subscriber base of 11 million. I don't really agree with you on WoW having hardly any diversity. You say raid or pvp, but nobody is forcing you to do any of that. You're free to create a new character, join the other faction and pick another class.
I think the classes and environments are diverse enough. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I think the Raid and PVP areas are primarily there as "time sink", so that Blizzard can develop new content or a next expansion.
I think there is just enough diversity in World of Warcraft. It knows what it's trying to do and it sticks to that formula and because of that, it doesn't suffer from having an identity crisis.
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
Just to make a point.
1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that)
2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs.
3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it.
4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again.
5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
1: Then don't, I was just using a few examples. You can also play third person shooters, or fighting games or any other competetive kind of game
2: Thats great, but that has nothing to do with fair pvp. I like RPG's as well and I like MMORPG PVP, but if I want to play a competetive game that's all about skill, i'd play a different kind of game.There are too many random elements in mmorpgs for it to be fair such as item drops, but also critical rate and even hit rate.
3: Well there are plenty of games that don't involve the military.
4: Thats fine, I like it too, but I think expecting fair pvp combat in a game that has items which influence your characters abilities which are obtained by chance is simply unrealistic.
Just to make a point. 1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that) 2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs. 3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it. 4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again. 5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
Ah so because you don't like something you don't play it?
... but you want a completely different genre of games changed to meet YOUR expectations because you don't want to play something else....
Ah that sense of entitlement.
You seriously have some issues or you're just flat out stupid. Yea , I won't pay or play for something I don't like. I'm not going to order meatloaf at a restaraunt, because I don't like it. I don't like WOW so I won't play it. I don't like baseball so I'm not ordering the MLB package. The fact that you have a problem with that is just laughable. I guess you conveniently overlooked the fact that FPS make me sick. PHSYICALLY SICK. I'm sorry you don't understand I don't want to throw up every time I play a game. Why don't you eat a gallon of icecream and spin around in circles for 30 minutes.
Also, is it wrong to want games that cater to my needs? Isn't that the point of a company making a product? They make a product that meets a persons needs so they will pay them money?
Not all games are going to provide me with what I want. DaoC did at one point in time. COH/COV did for a brief time. Maybe Aion or Earthrise will in the future. Who knows, I'll keep looking until I find a game that does.What I do know is WoW didn't.
I guess what you really want is for me to apologize for insulting your baby. That aint' gonna happen.
But you're not denying that gear makes all the difference in the world are you? Or that there are overpowered classes that get cycled through consistently. Both of which make an average player look better than their actual skills when competing against other less geared or optimal classes.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played.
LOL, amazing. You played what, two MMOs in your 10 years, with the second one being the theme park MMO? The funniest part is what happened with Retardins and Deathtards in WoW, yet you think it's the most balanced?
WoW is not even a PvP MMO in the first place. As for balance, they never even got close to getting it right. Gear always has an effect but I clearly remember from my days in Anarchy Online where skills of the player was more important than gear. Certain classes had edges over others, it took skill & expertise to know how to properly PvP. The best PvP classes were the hardest to learn & properly fight with. That is not the only MMO which was designed that way, where gear is only a crutch not a pwn tool like in WoW.
In WoW, a bad player who mouseclicks just has to roll FOTM and get easy epics to win. Classes are homogenized, so there is limited variability and class specific strategy. You may want to find that hilarious video where two utter bad players get to 2200s in Arena simply by playing as a prot pally/Deathtard team. It's pathetic at how badly they play, yet their combo is so powerful.
I didn't want to suggest there were no people who just play it because they want something to do, but I think 10% of a 11 million subscriber base game is pretty big (well before the problems with WoW China anyway) I don't really understand why the number needs to be larger than 57, especialy when the game in question had a subscriber base of 11 million. I don't really agree with you on WoW having hardly any diversity. You say raid or pvp, but nobody is forcing you to do any of that. You're free to create a new character, join the other faction and pick another class.
I think the classes and environments are diverse enough. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I think the Raid and PVP areas are primarily there as "time sink", so that Blizzard can develop new content or a next expansion.
I think there is just enough diversity in World of Warcraft. It knows what it's trying to do and it sticks to that formula and because of that, it doesn't suffer from having an identity crisis.
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
If you have your character maxed out in 2 weeks, you're probably playing pretty "hardcore". It's very easy to point to WoW and say "well I got to the max level in 2 weeks, that means the game must suck" but thats really because there is no filler content.
if I compare it to say, Lineage 2 where it can easily take up to a year to get to the cap level. Now I think Lineage 2 is a fine game in its own right, but there is a lot of filler. In Lineage 2, you're often spending days killing the same type of enemy to gain experience. World of Warcraft doesn't have this, you never spend too much time killing the same type of enemy or playing in the same area.
This is just a matter of preference. A game like Lineage 2 will probably last you a lot longer but as far as PVE gameplay is concerned, I prefer WoW's pacing over something like Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI.
Only hardcore achiever players and developers thinks its fair and right to only allow raiders to experience the highest progression a game has to offer. How many WoW players participate in raids exactly? We KNOW they are in the minority, yet they always get exclusive content. To make matters worse, their reward system gives them unfair advantages in other types of content. Raiding is an example of the worst kind of elitist social structure. Just because it works as a business model, doesn't even remotely mean it's the better way to do things. It's certainly the lazy way to do things from a developer's perspective. They already know that casuals will tolerate this bullcrap as long as they can re-roll or if they are given token rewards that have the appearance of being epic, but are still trash compared to hardcore rewards. Like a previous poster said, Blizzard has mastered the bait and switch. They remain popular because they are still the best this genre has to offer at the moment, but just like EverQuest, they will tank when someone finally has the balls to offer a better alternative for casuals.
I'm all about casual gamers and gaming but honestly, you really expect to get the same reward as the hardcore players?
Isn't that a bit unrealistic?
Here's a question for you:
Hardcore raiders get the best gear because they do the most difficult and hardcore content: raids.
If you are a solo player who doesn't do raids, why do you need the same gear someone who raids?
Oh, I get it. You just FEEL inferior.
Well, there is NOTHING in the game you can't solo that you are suppose to be able to solo with the best gear available from soloing.
HINT: If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear to do anything.
Leave the e-peen at home and open your eyes man.
Single player games manage to make solo content very challenging, as challenging as any raid I've ever participated in. MMO developers CHOOSE to make raiding harder and soloing easier for business reasons, not for philosophical ones. Thanks to many developers being hardcore elitists, they haven't been willing to try things differently, despite the potential to make a heck of a lot more money in the process.
Hint: If you raid, you don't need raid gear for anything but raiding. Stop with the bullcrap already. Your e-peen is obviously bigger than mine, sigh.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
You seriously have some issues or you're just flat out stupid. Yea , I won't pay or play for something I don't like. I'm not going to order meatloaf at a restaraunt, because I don't like it. I don't like WOW so I won't play it. I don't like baseball so I'm not ordering the MLB package. The fact that you have a problem with that is just laughable. I guess you conveniently overlooked the fact that FPS make me sick. PHSYICALLY SICK. I'm sorry you don't understand I don't want to throw up every time I play a game. Why don't you eat a gallon of icecream and spin around in circles for 30 minutes. Also, is it wrong to want games that cater to my needs? Isn't that the point of a company making a product? They make a product that meets a persons needs so they will pay them money? Not all games are going to provide me with what I want. DaoC did at one point in time. COH/COV did for a brief time. Maybe Aion or Earthrise will in the future. Who knows, I'll keep looking until I find a game that does.What I do know is WoW didn't. I guess what you really want is for me to apologize for insulting your baby. That aint' gonna happen.
Not at all I'm sorry you get sick playing FPS games.
But don't expect me or anyone else to treat you specially because you are different.
The 2nd to last paragraph I highlighted is the only smart thing you have said all day.
I didn't want to suggest there were no people who just play it because they want something to do, but I think 10% of a 11 million subscriber base game is pretty big (well before the problems with WoW China anyway) I don't really understand why the number needs to be larger than 57, especialy when the game in question had a subscriber base of 11 million. I don't really agree with you on WoW having hardly any diversity. You say raid or pvp, but nobody is forcing you to do any of that. You're free to create a new character, join the other faction and pick another class.
I think the classes and environments are diverse enough. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I think the Raid and PVP areas are primarily there as "time sink", so that Blizzard can develop new content or a next expansion.
I think there is just enough diversity in World of Warcraft. It knows what it's trying to do and it sticks to that formula and because of that, it doesn't suffer from having an identity crisis.
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
If you have your character maxed out in 2 weeks, you're probably playing pretty "hardcore". It's very easy to point to WoW and say "well I got to the max level in 2 weeks, that means the game must suck" but thats really because there is no filler content.
if I compare it to say, Lineage 2 where it can easily take up to a year to get to the cap level. Now I think Lineage 2 is a fine game in its own right, but there is a lot of filler. In Lineage 2, you're often spending days killing the same type of enemy to gain experience. World of Warcraft doesn't have this, you never spend too much time killing the same type of enemy or playing in the same area.
This is just a matter of preference. A game like Lineage 2 will probably last you a lot longer but as far as PVE gameplay is concerned, I prefer WoW's pacing over something like Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI.
I guess I should have said 2 weeks played, but the effect is the same.
But yeah this could go on forever. No point really, not everyone has the same tastes in games. I also never said it sucked because it was fast leveling, I think the leveling is to easy though.
1: Then don't, I was just using a few examples. You can also play third person shooters, or fighting games or any other competetive kind of game 2: Thats great, but that has nothing to do with fair pvp. I like RPG's as well and I like MMORPG PVP, but if I want to play a competetive game that's all about skill, i'd play a different kind of game.There are too many random elements in mmorpgs for it to be fair such as item drops, but also critical rate and even hit rate. 3: Well there are plenty of games that don't involve the military. 4: Thats fine, I like it too, but I think expecting fair pvp combat in a game that has items which influence your characters abilities which are obtained by chance is simply unrealistic.
What is it about you two that you cannot understand what I say? I know that it won't be completely fair ever. Even in your precious FPS you have ping, lag, computer issues that affect what is happening. Wallhacks, exploits,, just look at any counterstrike thread. So even there you have forces outside your skill affecting the outcome of the fight. Stop with the elitism that FPS is the end all be all of pvp.
What I want is the gap between haves and have nots to be lessened. I want to gear my character up with items I like and not have to search for ONE particular item per slot in order to compete. I don't want to be forced to raid for gear so I can compete. There are times I will win or lose, times I'll be better geared and I won't. I don't have a problem with that. But can you honestly say that IF all things were equal - Season 1 gear could compete with gear now? And further, GEAR affects crit rate and hit rate in many MMO's now.
DaoC 8 vs 8 was a prime example. Realm rank mattered, it made your toon more powerful, but you had to earn it by beating other players. If you geared everyone to max stats, and kept them at realm rank 0, and let them use identical setups , the good 8 man teams would still roll most of the players because they worked well in a team. Fights weren't always fair, but teamwork mattered and until TOA gear wasn't the defining factor like it is today.
Earthrise is going to be a 3rd person shooter, I am looking forward to that game.
Comments
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
Asheron's Call.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
I don't really understand why so many people find the effect gear has on pvp such a big deal.
I think Gear should have a big effect on PVP, that increases the satisfaction you get from receiving a good, powerful item.
If I wanted pvp to be all about skill, I'd play Call of Duty,Gears ofWar or Battlefield.
Everquest also applies to nongear
yes Everquest had plenty of "carrot-on-stick" gear upgrades
but EQ also had the Achievement system that empowered your character in nongear advancement of power
EQ2 fan sites
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
My last 2 years in WoW were just something to do, along with a lot of other people i know. So it does happen heh.
I didn't say random people, but I don't consider 57 a large enough number.
WoW is easy to start out in. There is hardly any diversity in the game. Thats the way it was designed. Raid or pvp, both of which get boring very fast in WoW. Why people enjoy it is beyond me. If you like the game fine by me, personally I think the game sucks
Edit: The only Blizzard game I really liked was Warcraft 2.
MMORPG.com needs to put in code so that whenever you wrote a post Gameloading, that thread just ends because you sir are the best poster I have ever seen.
Even if people don't agree with you, they are dumb because your logic is infallable.
Educated opinion > any opinon
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played. Things will never be perfectly balanced but at least I can play my chosen class and have fun in WoW, I was a Smuggler/Pistoleer way back in the day in SWG and I couldn't kill a fly. You had to be Creature Handler/Bounty Hunter/Commando at that time to do anything.
DaoC Pre-ToA was not so gear reliant. You could get close to stat caps with dropped loot from dungeons or you could use player crafter gear + drops to fnish you your template. Either way the difference between a person who min/maxed stats wasn't as great as they are in WOW.
Also , DaoC had much greater team pvp than any mmo out, which is why there are so many people who still hold DaoC as the only true RvR experience. It was DaoC RvR that had a large part in getting players to try Warhammer, many players from wow, but Mythic screwed the pooch on that one.
Which is my whole complaint about loot/items not being playercraftered. I want everyone at end game to have an easier time getting geared up, so when I fight them, we are on a more level playing field. I want the mmo experience to be more than about a giant hunt for loot, because that's pretty much all wow is. Get gear to do a dungeon, so you can get gear to do another dungeon, get gear so you can compete in the arena, hopefully get better ranking so you can get better gear and win more often in the arena. Do wintergrasp, arathi basin, warsong gulch so you can get tokens to buy better gear.....
Only hardcore achiever players and developers thinks its fair and right to only allow raiders to experience the highest progression a game has to offer. How many WoW players participate in raids exactly? We KNOW they are in the minority, yet they always get exclusive content. To make matters worse, their reward system gives them unfair advantages in other types of content. Raiding is an example of the worst kind of elitist social structure. Just because it works as a business model, doesn't even remotely mean it's the better way to do things. It's certainly the lazy way to do things from a developer's perspective. They already know that casuals will tolerate this bullcrap as long as they can re-roll or if they are given token rewards that have the appearance of being epic, but are still trash compared to hardcore rewards.
Like a previous poster said, Blizzard has mastered the bait and switch. They remain popular because they are still the best this genre has to offer at the moment, but just like EverQuest, they will tank when someone finally has the balls to offer a better alternative for casuals.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I dunno once you hit 70+ in WoW you have to make right choices on how to spec out your character to make them effective. It's really easy to make a bad choice in those skill trees that will gimp a character.
Google ---> How to spec my huntard? + What rotation I use for dps? -----> Mastered!
Lol at worst (Oh no I spec'd wrong........15gold ah fixed)
I play'd a hunter in WoW for about a year and thats what I hated about the game, they have exact specs they are supposed to have. If you didn't have the cookie cutter 51/20/0 (I think thats what it was) then you couldn't get into a raid.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Just to make a point.
1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that)
2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs.
3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it.
4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again.
5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
Actually, I think many "real" mmorpg gamers are playing and enjoying World of Warcraft.
0 substance? Lets look at the facts:
All of World of Warcraft's expansion packs + the original game have a metacritic score of over 90%.
There is actually plenty of substance in World of Warcraft.
What does that prove? Many MMOs have high metacritic scores, the standards for MMOs has never been that high, reviewers are just happy it doesnt run like first gen 3D MMOs. WAR has an 86 metacritic score and look how popular that game is here. Professional reviewers dont have the time to accurately review a MMO, all they get to see is a small aspect of the total package.
MMORPG.com needs to put in code so that whenever you wrote a post Gameloading, that thread just ends because you sir are the best poster I have ever seen.
Even if people don't agree with you, they are dumb because your logic is infallable.
Educated opinion > any opinon
WRONG. It just means it is a great game for those 11 million people. There are one billion chinese people. They eat chinese food, does that make chinese food great?
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
Though you have to admit, they did enjoy the game at one time, or else they wouldn't still be playing it.
Bingo....we have a winner lol. I beleive this makes up about 80% of the group of people bitching about the game and cutting down those that still enjoy it.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Ah so because you don't like something you don't play it?
... but you want a completely different genre of games changed to meet YOUR expectations because you don't want to play something else....
Ah that sense of entitlement.
I have to applaud you for actually providing info other then how many subs they have. I am tired of that argument lol. I do not however consider this info very accurate. They took 57 peoples opinions of the game. Thats hardly enough to say the game deserves that rating.
I am willing to bet 10% of the subs in WoW are just playing for something to do, not because they actually enjoy the game.
These aren't 57 opinions of random people, these are opinions of experienced gamers who have experience in judging a games quality. Nearly all of them agree WoW is an excellent MMORPG and that is reflected in their subscriber base. If critics think it's a great game and 11 million gamers think it's a great game, it probably is a great game.
I don't think 10% of the subs are just playing for something to do, but I could be wrong on this.
I don't think a game with a monthly fee is really a game you want to play just so you have something to do.
Playing games like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3 are games I would play when I want something to do, or if I really must play an mmorpg, i'd play a free to play mmorpg.
I wouldn't be paying 15$ a month for a game I didn't enjoy.
My last 2 years in WoW were just something to do, along with a lot of other people i know. So it does happen heh.
I didn't say random people, but I don't consider 57 a large enough number.
WoW is easy to start out in. There is hardly any diversity in the game. Thats the way it was designed. Raid or pvp, both of which get boring very fast in WoW. Why people enjoy it is beyond me. If you like the game fine by me, personally I think the game sucks
Edit: The only Blizzard game I really liked was Warcraft 2.
I didn't want to suggest there were no people who just play it because they want something to do, but I think 10% of a 11 million subscriber base game is pretty big (well before the problems with WoW China anyway)
I don't really understand why the number needs to be larger than 57, especialy when the game in question had a subscriber base of 11 million.
I don't really agree with you on WoW having hardly any diversity. You say raid or pvp, but nobody is forcing you to do any of that. You're free to create a new character, join the other faction and pick another class.
I think the classes and environments are diverse enough. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I think the Raid and PVP areas are primarily there as "time sink", so that Blizzard can develop new content or a next expansion.
I think there is just enough diversity in World of Warcraft. It knows what it's trying to do and it sticks to that formula and because of that, it doesn't suffer from having an identity crisis.
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
Just to make a point.
1) I dont' play fps , they make me nauseous. Especially considering I'm lefty and every avatar fires right handed. (unless there is a switch I don't know about that will change that)
2) I like RPGs. I enjoy raiding dungeons, sitting around bs'n, farming mobs.
3) I don't like any modern day military movies, games, books. I spent 4 years in the military and I have no desire since, to mimic it.
4) I like group based rpg style combat. DaoC provided it, until they screwed the game up. Hopefully Aion or Earhrise will give me a good pvp/rvr experience again.
5) I prefer fantasy based games, although I can deal with sci-fi if the content is fun.
1: Then don't, I was just using a few examples. You can also play third person shooters, or fighting games or any other competetive kind of game
2: Thats great, but that has nothing to do with fair pvp. I like RPG's as well and I like MMORPG PVP, but if I want to play a competetive game that's all about skill, i'd play a different kind of game.There are too many random elements in mmorpgs for it to be fair such as item drops, but also critical rate and even hit rate.
3: Well there are plenty of games that don't involve the military.
4: Thats fine, I like it too, but I think expecting fair pvp combat in a game that has items which influence your characters abilities which are obtained by chance is simply unrealistic.
Ah so because you don't like something you don't play it?
... but you want a completely different genre of games changed to meet YOUR expectations because you don't want to play something else....
Ah that sense of entitlement.
You seriously have some issues or you're just flat out stupid. Yea , I won't pay or play for something I don't like. I'm not going to order meatloaf at a restaraunt, because I don't like it. I don't like WOW so I won't play it. I don't like baseball so I'm not ordering the MLB package. The fact that you have a problem with that is just laughable. I guess you conveniently overlooked the fact that FPS make me sick. PHSYICALLY SICK. I'm sorry you don't understand I don't want to throw up every time I play a game. Why don't you eat a gallon of icecream and spin around in circles for 30 minutes.
Also, is it wrong to want games that cater to my needs? Isn't that the point of a company making a product? They make a product that meets a persons needs so they will pay them money?
Not all games are going to provide me with what I want. DaoC did at one point in time. COH/COV did for a brief time. Maybe Aion or Earthrise will in the future. Who knows, I'll keep looking until I find a game that does.What I do know is WoW didn't.
I guess what you really want is for me to apologize for insulting your baby. That aint' gonna happen.
Have you ever played a MMO?
Name a MMO where this is not the case.
After 10+ years of playing these games, you get used to it trust me.
WoW is 10x times more balanced then many of the MMOs I've played.
LOL, amazing. You played what, two MMOs in your 10 years, with the second one being the theme park MMO? The funniest part is what happened with Retardins and Deathtards in WoW, yet you think it's the most balanced?
WoW is not even a PvP MMO in the first place. As for balance, they never even got close to getting it right. Gear always has an effect but I clearly remember from my days in Anarchy Online where skills of the player was more important than gear. Certain classes had edges over others, it took skill & expertise to know how to properly PvP. The best PvP classes were the hardest to learn & properly fight with. That is not the only MMO which was designed that way, where gear is only a crutch not a pwn tool like in WoW.
In WoW, a bad player who mouseclicks just has to roll FOTM and get easy epics to win. Classes are homogenized, so there is limited variability and class specific strategy. You may want to find that hilarious video where two utter bad players get to 2200s in Arena simply by playing as a prot pally/Deathtard team. It's pathetic at how badly they play, yet their combo is so powerful.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
If you have your character maxed out in 2 weeks, you're probably playing pretty "hardcore". It's very easy to point to WoW and say "well I got to the max level in 2 weeks, that means the game must suck" but thats really because there is no filler content.
if I compare it to say, Lineage 2 where it can easily take up to a year to get to the cap level. Now I think Lineage 2 is a fine game in its own right, but there is a lot of filler. In Lineage 2, you're often spending days killing the same type of enemy to gain experience. World of Warcraft doesn't have this, you never spend too much time killing the same type of enemy or playing in the same area.
This is just a matter of preference. A game like Lineage 2 will probably last you a lot longer but as far as PVE gameplay is concerned, I prefer WoW's pacing over something like Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI.
I'm all about casual gamers and gaming but honestly, you really expect to get the same reward as the hardcore players?
Isn't that a bit unrealistic?
Here's a question for you:
Hardcore raiders get the best gear because they do the most difficult and hardcore content: raids.
If you are a solo player who doesn't do raids, why do you need the same gear someone who raids?
Oh, I get it. You just FEEL inferior.
Well, there is NOTHING in the game you can't solo that you are suppose to be able to solo with the best gear available from soloing.
HINT: If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear to do anything.
Leave the e-peen at home and open your eyes man.
Single player games manage to make solo content very challenging, as challenging as any raid I've ever participated in. MMO developers CHOOSE to make raiding harder and soloing easier for business reasons, not for philosophical ones. Thanks to many developers being hardcore elitists, they haven't been willing to try things differently, despite the potential to make a heck of a lot more money in the process.
Hint: If you raid, you don't need raid gear for anything but raiding. Stop with the bullcrap already. Your e-peen is obviously bigger than mine, sigh.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Not at all I'm sorry you get sick playing FPS games.
But don't expect me or anyone else to treat you specially because you are different.
The 2nd to last paragraph I highlighted is the only smart thing you have said all day.
Exactly!
You get my point.
So why is it important that you, the non-raider get's raid-level gear then?
Sure I could roll another class, level to max in 2 weeks, then what heh. Level another? No thanks.
I am not here to bash people who like the game, I am just giving my opinions on it. Sub numbers to me don't mean anything when it comes to the game. Again this is all my opinions.
I prefer games where there is a nice friendly community. WoW is full of elitist, and plain rude people. Thats 1 of the major problems I have with the game. I also like the journey of the game, not quick leveling to end-game stuff. WoW's quest lines to me wasn't all that great, though I can't give a reason really as to why. I just didn't like it.
If you have your character maxed out in 2 weeks, you're probably playing pretty "hardcore". It's very easy to point to WoW and say "well I got to the max level in 2 weeks, that means the game must suck" but thats really because there is no filler content.
if I compare it to say, Lineage 2 where it can easily take up to a year to get to the cap level. Now I think Lineage 2 is a fine game in its own right, but there is a lot of filler. In Lineage 2, you're often spending days killing the same type of enemy to gain experience. World of Warcraft doesn't have this, you never spend too much time killing the same type of enemy or playing in the same area.
This is just a matter of preference. A game like Lineage 2 will probably last you a lot longer but as far as PVE gameplay is concerned, I prefer WoW's pacing over something like Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI.
I guess I should have said 2 weeks played, but the effect is the same.
But yeah this could go on forever. No point really, not everyone has the same tastes in games. I also never said it sucked because it was fast leveling, I think the leveling is to easy though.
What is it about you two that you cannot understand what I say? I know that it won't be completely fair ever. Even in your precious FPS you have ping, lag, computer issues that affect what is happening. Wallhacks, exploits,, just look at any counterstrike thread. So even there you have forces outside your skill affecting the outcome of the fight. Stop with the elitism that FPS is the end all be all of pvp.
What I want is the gap between haves and have nots to be lessened. I want to gear my character up with items I like and not have to search for ONE particular item per slot in order to compete. I don't want to be forced to raid for gear so I can compete. There are times I will win or lose, times I'll be better geared and I won't. I don't have a problem with that. But can you honestly say that IF all things were equal - Season 1 gear could compete with gear now? And further, GEAR affects crit rate and hit rate in many MMO's now.
DaoC 8 vs 8 was a prime example. Realm rank mattered, it made your toon more powerful, but you had to earn it by beating other players. If you geared everyone to max stats, and kept them at realm rank 0, and let them use identical setups , the good 8 man teams would still roll most of the players because they worked well in a team. Fights weren't always fair, but teamwork mattered and until TOA gear wasn't the defining factor like it is today.
Earthrise is going to be a 3rd person shooter, I am looking forward to that game.