I'm all about casual gamers and casual gaming but honestly, you really expect to get the same reward as the hardcore players? Isn't that a bit unrealistic? Here's a question for you: Hardcore raiders get the best gear because they do the most difficult and hardcore content: the raids. If you are a solo player who doesn't do raids, why do you need the same gear as someone who raids? You don't. Oh, I get it. You just FEEL inferior. Well, there is NOTHING in the game you can't solo that you are suppose to be able to solo with the best gear available from soloing. HINT: If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear to do anything. There is no group dungeon content you can't complete in a group while only having group dungeon-level gear.
There is no solo content you can't solo complete while only have solo-level gear. Leave the e-peen at home and open your eyes man. The only people who "need" the best, highest level, most uber epic gear are those who are doing the most difficult content.
In terms of PvP, well, I don't think PvP can ever be "balanced" completely in a level/gear based MMORPG.
This argument could go both ways. If a person soloing or in a small group gets the gear, How does it effect you? Other than you wish to feel superior to them. Not every one has no life in witch they have all this time to devote to huge raids that take hours.
The bottom line is, what does it matter. You will still do your raids and they will still solo or small groups. Worry about your self. Let people have fun, that’s what they pay their sub fee for, the same as you.
I'd love to see more content for solo players and small group players.
I find small group stuff to be just as fun if not more so then the large raid stuff, it seems more intimate and allows for individual players to "step up" and showcase their skills more. But in a game where gear is everything, and gear has certain levels or tiers associated with it like in World of Warcraft. You simply don't need gear that is higher then the content you are doing. It makes that content trivial and boring. I don't know why you are asking for it. Asking for more gear and more things to do? Sure, I agree 100% I'm all for it. Asking for stuff that is comparable and equivalent? No, I'm sorry that doesn't make any sense. You don't need it for what you are doing, you just want it. But I understand the logic. People buy a car that can go 140 mph but they'll never drive it over 80. They just like having it, it makes them feel better and gives them something to brag about.
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
It's not about the epeen. That's the raider bias wanting to invalidate the soloers argument and reduce it to pettiness. The important question is; would you be happy if raid gear could only be equipped inside raid instances?
Now THAT is an interesting question!
Sure.
{but I feel alot of this argument has gotten off based. I could care less about raiding. most games don't really have raiding anyways, its somthing WoW made famous. Grouping is where its at!}
In all the discussions I have seen about this topic, I have NEVER and I truly mean NEVER seen a poster say that the reason solo and small group players don't deserve the same gear as hardcore raiders is because the solo and small group players don't need the same level of gear because the content they are doing doesn't require it. I see now, it's all about greed and wanting something you don't have, and feeling like you are inferior and not actually about the game mechanics and systems at all.
You pretty much touched the core basis of MMORPGs - the ego stroke and the "fun" of acquiring items and experiences that support the ego stroke. That's why epic gear from raids look so outlandish and "epic." That's why maxed out characters hang out in common city areas and stand around showing off their epic e-peen gear. People in general like to show off and MMORPGs, at least the more popular ones, cater to that kind of mentality. That's the way I see it, anyways, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
The important question is; would you be happy if raid gear could only be equipped inside raid instances?
Totally.
As long as I had the bag space to carry more gear sets then I already do haha.
It makes it more fun to be "at the level" of the content.
Hence, why Blizzard is making achievements where you HAVE to be below a certain item level in the content to get it.
They are smart, they see things as they should be.
Over-gearing a place is not fun, it's trivializing.
Yet it took them how many years to do this? To see the fault in their original raid scheme? Too long in my opinion which is why there is SUCH a huge fight now between the two sides because suddenly raiders are calling the easier to acheive epics 'welfware'.
The divide was created and the fight will pretty much never end because of Blizzards pivotal mistake from the beginning with raids being the only way to have endgame. By making it such a huge status symbol and then slowly scaling it back.
As long as Blizz allows raiders to use their gear for other content in the game there will always be a huge call for more and better gear for small group and solo content players. We know that will never change at this point in the lifespan of the game so you might as wel just get used to casual players wanting equal treatment.
{but I feel alot of this argument has gotten off based. I could care less about raiding. most games don't really have raiding anyways, its somthing WoW made famous. Grouping is where its at!}
Something EQ made famous. Other games had raiding after EQ and before WoW as well.
If solo content doesn't need the same kind of gear, or rather equally powerful gear but different, as a raider then solo content is broken in that game.
If this holds true which it must because all forms of content must be challenging, that effectively means that all arguements from ingame examples are moot. Unless of course you draw some very long and drawn out conclusions from EvE and various asian games. None of which are good cases because it is indirectly connected conclusions
This also means that you can't base any sane arguement along this line of debate because there isn't enough evidence to support and counter both sides. And that all the examples you're likely thinking of are mostly based on opionion and "not the best" game design.
In conclusion you're wasting a lot of collective man hours for something that can't truely be proven or disproven, unless of course you think that arguing opionions alone is healthy debate.
edit; spelling
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
If solo content doesn't need the same kind of gear, or rather equally powerful gear but different, as a raider then solo content is broken in that game. If this holds true which it must because all forms of content must be challenging, that effectively means that all arguements from ingame examples are moot. Unless of course you draw some very long and drawn out conclusions from EvE and various asian games. None of which are good cases because it is indirectly connected conclusions This also means that you can't base any sane arguement along this line of debate because there isn't enough evidence to support and counter both sides. And that all the examples you're likely thinking of are mostly based on opionion and "not the best" game design. In conclusion you're wasting a lot of collective man hours for something that can't truely be proven or disproven, unless of course you think that arguing opionions alone is healthy debate.
edit; spelling
The entire purpose of gaming forums IS to discuss and debate aspects of games. MMOs are designed to appeal to their target audience and it's the responsibility of their player base to tell them if they got it right or not and give examples of why or why not.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
It's not about the epeen. That's the raider bias wanting to invalidate the soloers argument and reduce it to pettiness. The important question is; would you be happy if raid gear could only be equipped inside raid instances?
That's an interesting point. Of course it would be artificial but I wonder if there is more to that?
Suppose there was no raid gear. But one got a special stone that could be added to gear but that would only add its benefits when in a raid or attacking a raid mob or boss?
This way there wouldn't be any need for special gear per se but raiders can earn extra protections for raids.
edit: I"m also going to add, does there have to be raid gear? Why not just gear?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
I agree, you just replace raiding with crafting and retain the same elitist paradigm by putting it into the hands of crafters, yet another gaming minority. You have to have options. You should be able to get equal rewards no matter your play style. These are RPGs and central to that theme is character development and whether you are casual or hardcore, adventurer or crafter, PvPer or PvEer, you want to not only improve your character, but you want the best for them, it's human nature. The fundamental flaw is that only raiders get top bid and it creates huge resenment from all the other types of players.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I'm all about casual gamers and casual gaming but honestly, you really expect to get the same reward as the hardcore players? Isn't that a bit unrealistic? Here's a question for you: Hardcore raiders get the best gear because they do the most difficult and hardcore content: the raids. If you are a solo player who doesn't do raids, why do you need the same gear as someone who raids? You don't. Oh, I get it. You just FEEL inferior. Well, there is NOTHING in the game you can't solo that you are suppose to be able to solo with the best gear available from soloing. HINT: If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear to do anything. There is no group dungeon content you can't complete in a group while only having group dungeon-level gear.
There is no solo content you can't solo complete while only have solo-level gear. Leave the e-peen at home and open your eyes man. The only people who "need" the best, highest level, most uber epic gear are those who are doing the most difficult content.
In terms of PvP, well, I don't think PvP can ever be "balanced" completely in a level/gear based MMORPG.
This argument could go both ways. If a person soloing or in a small group gets the gear, How does it effect you? Other than you wish to feel superior to them. Not every one has no life in witch they have all this time to devote to huge raids that take hours.
The bottom line is, what does it matter. You will still do your raids and they will still solo or small groups. Worry about your self. Let people have fun, that’s what they pay their sub fee for, the same as you.
Exactly! These guys that have to feel superior is everyone ingame crack me up....its pixels...LOL
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
That is why I said there are other rewards that can be given. Titles, trophys, decorations for your housing if the game has it. Even in the case of armor and weapons, you can make them without stats and have stats spellcrafted on them like daoc's spellcrafting system. I actually think in Aion you are going to be able to transfer stats to new items from an old item. (I might be wrong on that but I swear I remember reading it somewhere) Create a placard in the main cities that show people's names and accomplishments. Make a statue for people who are the first to accomplish hidden feats. The Camelot herald had listings of many stats and rankings based on pvp performance for individuals and guilds.
There's plenty of rewards that showcase your acheivements that can be used and I just rattled them off the top of my head.
People are going to what something tangible to show off their accomplishments, even if they're virtual. They just don't need to be overpowered statistically. I think the problem is there are a ton of players who want the loot so they CAN be overpowered but they don't want to show their weakness by admitting it.
Should Non-RP'ers have access to all the customization as a RP'er?
Do they deserve being able to customize the look of their character as much as a RP'er? Do they deserve access to "social" tabs and clothing?
It's the RP'ers "domain", with making their roleplaying characters look the way they need to, and wear the clothing/armor they need to. Nothing of such means anything to a Non-RP'er, since their game is all about stats and better stats. Non RP gear and characters shouldnt need more than 1 face, 1 hairdo, 1 colour etc. Their gear only needs stats and levels, not any visual differences.
But hey, I bet that if devs made it so only RP'ers got access to the good looking stuff and the customization, the rest of the playerbase would scream their lungs out and detest RP'ers even more.
This thread makes me wonder... Should Non-RP'ers have access to all the customization as a RP'er? Do they deserve being able to customize the look of their character as much as a RP'er? Do they deserve access to "social" tabs and clothing? It's the RP'ers "domain", with making their roleplaying characters look the way they need to, and wear the clothing/armor they need to. Nothing of such means anything to a Non-RP'er, since their game is all about stats and better stats. Non RP gear and characters shouldnt need more than 1 face, 1 hairdo, 1 colour etc. Their gear only needs stats and levels, not any visual differences.
But hey, I bet that if devs made it so only RP'ers got access to the good looking stuff and the customization, the rest of the playerbase would scream their lungs out and detest RP'ers even more.
All you have to do is visit any Star Wars The Old republic forum to see this tug of war play out. Bioware has been focusing mainly on information about casual / roleplay content, with very little if anything about hardcore mechanisms. This has hardcores and raiders posting topics over and over again about being left out. See how they react when they're the ones being treated like soloers and casuals have been over the last decade. It's funny to watch and irritating at the same time as they argue over and over again how not only do they deserve content in the game, but that it must be better and more rewarding than story based questing and any casual content for that matter. The thought of even one MMO coming out that might not treat them like top dogs is driving them into a frenzy.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I'm all about casual gamers and casual gaming but honestly, you really expect to get the same reward as the hardcore players? Hardcore raiders get the best gear because they do the most difficult and hardcore content: the raids.
Oh yay - another post on this topic. Welcome to several weeks ago.
Actually, I hate and detest raiding, and those who want to do it for the gear are more than welcome to it. I wouldn't raid if I was paid for it, because it has all the appeal of grinding instances over and over and over (I.E. none) while being even less fun.
I agree with you. But, if there is not more items to get for solo players, why should they even keep on playing?
In a game as large as something like say World of Warcraft I garauntee you that there are VERY few players who have accomplished everything and gotten everything they could possible get from solo play.
By the time they did, they'd have already released new content and new items and new things for them to do.
It's how a MMORPG works.
Man, you are so wrong it is not even funny.
Vanilla WoW had about a year's worth of solo/casual group content and that is stretching it. A committed altholic could probably push it to a year and a half. However, about eight months before the first expansion any casual who started at release would have sucked the casual content dry. That was the final Raid or Quit moment. Those who could transition to raiding staid on and those who couldn't burned out and quit.
WIth the current expansion the casual content has been exhausted by now as well and all you have left are the more obscure achievements and running the same content over and over.
Ahhh come on, their games bud....What does it matter to you what people have and what they dont? Its a virtual world..its not real...LOL. Try having some fun ingame rather then worrying about other peoples loot. Theres an idea...
Ahhh come on, their games bud....What does it matter to you what people have and what they dont? Its a virtual world..its not real...LOL. Try having some fun ingame rather then worrying about other peoples loot. Theres an idea...
Hey, another adult. Hi!
That's all I've been saying this ENTIRE time.
Is that the solo and small-group people want what the raiders have and are jealous, and that the raiders look down on the solo and small-group people because they aren't as "hardcore."
I'm just pointing out the obvious.
I am also trying to say in terms of game mechanics, as in what gear you actually NEED to complete your objectives, you do not need raid gear unless you are raiding.
How is this hard to understand?
If you could take away the e-peen and jealousy and whining and sense of entitlement and priveledge, all you'd be left with was a game where people played what they enjoyed playing, and they would have the neccessary tools to enjoy whatever content they choose to do and "win" at it.
Ahhh come on, their games bud....What does it matter to you what people have and what they dont? Its a virtual world..its not real...LOL. Try having some fun ingame rather then worrying about other peoples loot. Theres an idea...
Hey, another adult. Hi!
The problem is, that in order to have some fun, you have to be decently geared, otherwise there wont be any fun at all in getting 1 shotted by X or Y mob, either solo or grouped.
Im basicly a soloer, but it reaches a point when you DO need to group in order to get better stuff in order to keep going solo, otherwise, the 1shotted mob will appear over and over again.
Comments
This argument could go both ways. If a person soloing or in a small group gets the gear, How does it effect you? Other than you wish to feel superior to them. Not every one has no life in witch they have all this time to devote to huge raids that take hours.
The bottom line is, what does it matter. You will still do your raids and they will still solo or small groups. Worry about your self. Let people have fun, that’s what they pay their sub fee for, the same as you.
Have the best gear made by crafting..... If you solo you can make the best gear, if your a hardcore raider you can also make the best gear. Nobody bitches and everyone is happy, FIN.
Totally.
As long as I had the bag space to carry more gear sets then I already do haha.
It makes it more fun to be "at the level" of the content.
Hence, why Blizzard is making achievements where you HAVE to be below a certain item level in the content to get it.
They are smart, they see things as they should be.
Over-gearing a place is not fun, it's trivializing.
Now THAT is an interesting question!
Sure.
{but I feel alot of this argument has gotten off based. I could care less about raiding. most games don't really have raiding anyways, its somthing WoW made famous. Grouping is where its at!}
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
You pretty much touched the core basis of MMORPGs - the ego stroke and the "fun" of acquiring items and experiences that support the ego stroke. That's why epic gear from raids look so outlandish and "epic." That's why maxed out characters hang out in common city areas and stand around showing off their epic e-peen gear. People in general like to show off and MMORPGs, at least the more popular ones, cater to that kind of mentality. That's the way I see it, anyways, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
Totally.
As long as I had the bag space to carry more gear sets then I already do haha.
It makes it more fun to be "at the level" of the content.
Hence, why Blizzard is making achievements where you HAVE to be below a certain item level in the content to get it.
They are smart, they see things as they should be.
Over-gearing a place is not fun, it's trivializing.
Yet it took them how many years to do this? To see the fault in their original raid scheme? Too long in my opinion which is why there is SUCH a huge fight now between the two sides because suddenly raiders are calling the easier to acheive epics 'welfware'.
The divide was created and the fight will pretty much never end because of Blizzards pivotal mistake from the beginning with raids being the only way to have endgame. By making it such a huge status symbol and then slowly scaling it back.
As long as Blizz allows raiders to use their gear for other content in the game there will always be a huge call for more and better gear for small group and solo content players. We know that will never change at this point in the lifespan of the game so you might as wel just get used to casual players wanting equal treatment.
Something EQ made famous. Other games had raiding after EQ and before WoW as well.
I place this arguement:
If solo content doesn't need the same kind of gear, or rather equally powerful gear but different, as a raider then solo content is broken in that game.
If this holds true which it must because all forms of content must be challenging, that effectively means that all arguements from ingame examples are moot. Unless of course you draw some very long and drawn out conclusions from EvE and various asian games. None of which are good cases because it is indirectly connected conclusions
This also means that you can't base any sane arguement along this line of debate because there isn't enough evidence to support and counter both sides. And that all the examples you're likely thinking of are mostly based on opionion and "not the best" game design.
In conclusion you're wasting a lot of collective man hours for something that can't truely be proven or disproven, unless of course you think that arguing opionions alone is healthy debate.
edit; spelling
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
The entire purpose of gaming forums IS to discuss and debate aspects of games. MMOs are designed to appeal to their target audience and it's the responsibility of their player base to tell them if they got it right or not and give examples of why or why not.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
That's an interesting point. Of course it would be artificial but I wonder if there is more to that?
Suppose there was no raid gear. But one got a special stone that could be added to gear but that would only add its benefits when in a raid or attacking a raid mob or boss?
This way there wouldn't be any need for special gear per se but raiders can earn extra protections for raids.
edit: I"m also going to add, does there have to be raid gear? Why not just gear?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
I agree, you just replace raiding with crafting and retain the same elitist paradigm by putting it into the hands of crafters, yet another gaming minority. You have to have options. You should be able to get equal rewards no matter your play style. These are RPGs and central to that theme is character development and whether you are casual or hardcore, adventurer or crafter, PvPer or PvEer, you want to not only improve your character, but you want the best for them, it's human nature. The fundamental flaw is that only raiders get top bid and it creates huge resenment from all the other types of players.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This argument could go both ways. If a person soloing or in a small group gets the gear, How does it effect you? Other than you wish to feel superior to them. Not every one has no life in witch they have all this time to devote to huge raids that take hours.
The bottom line is, what does it matter. You will still do your raids and they will still solo or small groups. Worry about your self. Let people have fun, that’s what they pay their sub fee for, the same as you.
Exactly! These guys that have to feel superior is everyone ingame crack me up....its pixels...LOL
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
isn't this becoming an exercise in futility. at this point, does anybody really care
I agree 100%. Make crafting viable again. There are a lot of players who enjoy crafting out there who would appreciate a game that catered to their desires for a change.
There are other rewards that can be given for doing large raids which do not involve loot drops.
I actually used to agree with this a few years ago, but I don't now. I believe gear should represent a player's accomplishments in the game. Maybe the crafted gear can be epic if the ingredients needed can only be found in epic quests, either grouped or solo'd. But not everyone likes crafting (personally, I can't stand it), so just making all the best gear only attainable through crafting just caters to one type of player, and that would kill an MMO.
That is why I said there are other rewards that can be given. Titles, trophys, decorations for your housing if the game has it. Even in the case of armor and weapons, you can make them without stats and have stats spellcrafted on them like daoc's spellcrafting system. I actually think in Aion you are going to be able to transfer stats to new items from an old item. (I might be wrong on that but I swear I remember reading it somewhere) Create a placard in the main cities that show people's names and accomplishments. Make a statue for people who are the first to accomplish hidden feats. The Camelot herald had listings of many stats and rankings based on pvp performance for individuals and guilds.
There's plenty of rewards that showcase your acheivements that can be used and I just rattled them off the top of my head.
People are going to what something tangible to show off their accomplishments, even if they're virtual. They just don't need to be overpowered statistically. I think the problem is there are a ton of players who want the loot so they CAN be overpowered but they don't want to show their weakness by admitting it.
This thread makes me wonder...
Should Non-RP'ers have access to all the customization as a RP'er?
Do they deserve being able to customize the look of their character as much as a RP'er? Do they deserve access to "social" tabs and clothing?
It's the RP'ers "domain", with making their roleplaying characters look the way they need to, and wear the clothing/armor they need to. Nothing of such means anything to a Non-RP'er, since their game is all about stats and better stats. Non RP gear and characters shouldnt need more than 1 face, 1 hairdo, 1 colour etc. Their gear only needs stats and levels, not any visual differences.
But hey, I bet that if devs made it so only RP'ers got access to the good looking stuff and the customization, the rest of the playerbase would scream their lungs out and detest RP'ers even more.
All you have to do is visit any Star Wars The Old republic forum to see this tug of war play out. Bioware has been focusing mainly on information about casual / roleplay content, with very little if anything about hardcore mechanisms. This has hardcores and raiders posting topics over and over again about being left out. See how they react when they're the ones being treated like soloers and casuals have been over the last decade. It's funny to watch and irritating at the same time as they argue over and over again how not only do they deserve content in the game, but that it must be better and more rewarding than story based questing and any casual content for that matter. The thought of even one MMO coming out that might not treat them like top dogs is driving them into a frenzy.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Oh yay - another post on this topic. Welcome to several weeks ago.
Actually, I hate and detest raiding, and those who want to do it for the gear are more than welcome to it. I wouldn't raid if I was paid for it, because it has all the appeal of grinding instances over and over and over (I.E. none) while being even less fun.
In a game as large as something like say World of Warcraft I garauntee you that there are VERY few players who have accomplished everything and gotten everything they could possible get from solo play.
By the time they did, they'd have already released new content and new items and new things for them to do.
It's how a MMORPG works.
Man, you are so wrong it is not even funny.
Vanilla WoW had about a year's worth of solo/casual group content and that is stretching it. A committed altholic could probably push it to a year and a half. However, about eight months before the first expansion any casual who started at release would have sucked the casual content dry. That was the final Raid or Quit moment. Those who could transition to raiding staid on and those who couldn't burned out and quit.
WIth the current expansion the casual content has been exhausted by now as well and all you have left are the more obscure achievements and running the same content over and over.
Hey, another adult. Hi!
Hey, another adult. Hi!
That's all I've been saying this ENTIRE time.
Is that the solo and small-group people want what the raiders have and are jealous, and that the raiders look down on the solo and small-group people because they aren't as "hardcore."
I'm just pointing out the obvious.
I am also trying to say in terms of game mechanics, as in what gear you actually NEED to complete your objectives, you do not need raid gear unless you are raiding.
How is this hard to understand?
If you could take away the e-peen and jealousy and whining and sense of entitlement and priveledge, all you'd be left with was a game where people played what they enjoyed playing, and they would have the neccessary tools to enjoy whatever content they choose to do and "win" at it.
Hey, another adult. Hi!
The problem is, that in order to have some fun, you have to be decently geared, otherwise there wont be any fun at all in getting 1 shotted by X or Y mob, either solo or grouped.
Im basicly a soloer, but it reaches a point when you DO need to group in order to get better stuff in order to keep going solo, otherwise, the 1shotted mob will appear over and over again.
Thats IMHO.
lmao 1st thing I thought..