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'Game-changing' microtransactions confirmed

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  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558

    everything you can get in the mt you can get in game you just have to work for it. so whats the problem

  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558
    Originally posted by Savvon


    Short response:

    My wife and I will not be playing CO because of this decision.
     
    Longer response:

    My wife and I have been looking at this game and Aion because our son is old enough and started doing his own thing now and we want to get back into MMO's and have time to do so in the evenings. I know these are two different games, but we are looking for a new MMO community to be part of and are able to adapt to different MMO worlds, as we all are.
     
    I see a lot of analogies, excuses and rationalizations here, but this business model simply shows that cryptic is greedy.  It is a poor decision and anyone who accepts it is paving the way for other companies to squeeze every ounce of money out of the customer base as it can.
     
    Many companies are watching us! We need to stand firm and let these companies understand that we will pay a subscription fee and that is it. "Microtransaction" is just another greasy salesman term used on us to make milking us out of our cash easier to accept.
     
    My wife and I are going to pre-order Aion even though we would enjoy CO much, much more. We both are disappointed by Cryptics decision but simply cannot accept caving in to company greed.
     
     
     
     

    your not force to buy anything everything you can buy you cang et in game i dont see what the big deal is. i would if the store items were items you cant get in game.

    So if theres a quest you really dislike but you really want that item from the quest you can just buy it then. if theyw as greedy you wouldnt be able to get that items in game 2

     

  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558
    Originally posted by green13

    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    I didn't know that vanity items or fluff items as some say are " game changing". That is news to me!

    Oh come on SV.

    You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?



     

    dont matter all tiems in the store. you can get in game

  • donjuanamigodonjuanamigo Member Posts: 256

    i dont understand the big deal myself. you can get everything in game you can buy in the store. wheres the greed? the greed is in the players part, not cryptics. just because the store is there doesnt mean you have to use it.

  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558
    Originally posted by donjuanamigo


    i dont understand the big deal myself. you can get everything in game you can buy in the store. wheres the greed? the greed is in the players part, not cryptics. just because the store is there doesnt mean you have to use it.



     

    yea i dont think they realize that all item ine the store you can get in game 2 just with a bit of work

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 2,051

    Oh, i think they understand it.  People don't equate time with money, for the most part.  So when someone with time to get something in a game, they think wow, that's cool!  When someone works hard for their money and choose to spend it in a game they think...wow what a loser! Or something along those lines.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

     It's called peer pressure. Who's going to run instance X for you one year down the line for a power that is sold in the shop? 

    "Don't be cheap man, just buy the power so we can play in the next tier."

    I can already see it happening.

    Besides, just because you can get it ingame, doesn't mean they can't make it a royal pain in the ass to do so. So much as to get fed up with it and either cave in and just buy the damn thing or bow out. Bottom line, it's a design that promotes short term benefits over long term subscriptions.

  • SavvonSavvon Member Posts: 98
    Originally posted by downtoearth dont matter all tiems in the store. you can get in game

     

    Trust me, there will be items in the store that you cannot obtain any other way.

     

    It is the nature of this model.

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by Savvon

    Originally posted by downtoearth dont matter all tiems in the store. you can get in game

    Trust me, there will be items in the store that you cannot obtain any other way.

    It is the nature of this model.

    True.

    Iin fact this one of the few things Roper actually did confirm in his "demystifying" interview.

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by green13

    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    I didn't know that vanity items or fluff items as some say are " game changing". That is news to me!

    Oh come on SV.

    You post all the promotional stuff and try to paint the game in a good light. That's fair enough. But now you're sinking to Cryptic's level by being dishonest. If that's the only way you can sell your product, how good can it really be?

    Ya know  I am not 100% for microtransactions and if it were up to me I would just do the subscription model. I just think alot of what some people say are just blown way out of proportion. There is just no way possible that vanity items affect gameplay. The most important aspect of the game is gameplay so if nothing is affecting it by buying something because someone wants to look extra nice then so be it. I'll only be interested in extra character slots and more storage if that is available. Everything I do will be earned through gameplay. People just need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill so to speak. 

    In two separate releases Cryptic have confirmed that the item mall will go beyond vanity items and include "game changing" ones.

    You started a whole thread pointing to one of those releases.

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by donjuanamigo


    everyone needs to look at it like this. im pretty sure everyone at some point in their life has gone to wal-mart or some similar store and gone through the checkout line. now when you get there theres all this random crap and candy there you can buy. so think of the MT as all that random stuff at the check out line when youre leaving the store. you can either buy the 4 pack of reeces peanut butter cups and a pepsi or coke like i do sometimes or you dont. i think thats a pretty civil way to look at cryptics model here.

    OH MY GOD - YOU'RE TOTALLY RIGHT!!!!!

    Like this one time, I walked into a McDonalds and just bought a meal. I didn't buy the entire McDonalds mega-global-corporation, therefore, I love microtransactions and so should everyone else....

    Yours is a poor analogy.

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095
    Originally posted by apocalance

    Originally posted by Irishoak

    Originally posted by apocalance


    1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
    Potentially more funding for a relatively easy time investment
    This is the biggest game wrecker for me, the devs will focus on this to make money, their main focus will not be for the customers who pay 15 bucks a month. You're funding to make more crap, but only crap you can buy. Oh sure they'll be some minor content updates but you can bet the best and brightest looking stuff will be here. The sole purpose of the MT is to make MORE money, how can games like EvE push out massive content with a standard fee only and Champions not? If they have to charge extra to continue developing a game they charge a premium fee for they are running the game wrong.  Just rename it Hellgate: Champions right now and be done with it.


    All marketed and subscription games are out to make money, but some are less up front about it. They can easily add an item mall with fluffy bunny hats that most of us won't care about and yet it will allow them to snag an extra bit of money from someone who obviously has too much if they're spending it on virtual property.
     


    2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.)
    Nothing new here really. You can purchase cosmetic or vanity items from the shop using real money. So, if you absolutely MUST HAVE the purple haircut of butchery, feel free to drop down $5 or w/e it costs. Does that make you better than anyone? No. Does it mean you have $5 and decided you wanted to blow it on a purely cosmetic item? Yes. OP? No.
    It can be argued your subscription fee should allow you regular updates of content, they want to gouge us for more money over time, make a stupid ex-pac and increase the banal level cap...their prime motive is to make money ASAP.
    I completely agree that if I'm paying $15 for a current MMO, I damn well better have access to everything in the game. Otherwise it better be something TRULY above and beyond for them to get my money. Personally, I won't be buying items from their mall, but I won't NOT play the game because I can't have the CRYPTIC-flavored cape. Now, if they're only charging me $10/month and it's a complete MMO, I may have more incentive to occasionally shop from the mall. And on another level, I may get pissed down the road that there's too much cool stuff in the shop and not enough in the game and just cancel because I don't feel like being mugged to enjoy my game.


    3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.

    As long as it's not top level gear, this is fine with me. Although I'd like to see a decrease from the standard $15/month charge with such an item mall.
    How many times have we been told one thing prior to release and then it's changed? Their foot is in the door with this one, all they have to do is make something attainable with a really shitty drop rate or a horrid grind and they've kept their word. They can make it so bad it takes you months to get, or ten seconds to buy.
    I'm not going to start off with a new game and a new company making that game, and believe the company is being less than truthful. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt the first time if they're reputable. My courtesy doesn't extend past getting burned by them even once however.
    Just my 2¢.
    Save it, you'll need the money for features.
    You presume too much.

     

     

    These companies are interested in snagging a lot more than a few extra bucks, that is a guarantee.

     

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • TadamitsuTadamitsu Member Posts: 118

    I want to see how they roll this out.

     

    could be uber cool could suck.

    but you know as someone who has paid alot of money over the last 4 years to mmo's I kind of like buying what I want and reducing my grid and grrrr time.

     

     

    played:WoW and Eve off and on 5 years
    Tried:CoH/V, PoTBS, War, TR, STO, FE
    TOR is likely to rock

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by donjuanamigo


    i dont understand the big deal myself. you can get everything in game you can buy in the store. wheres the greed? the greed is in the players part, not cryptics. just because the store is there doesnt mean you have to use it.

    Wrong - there will be items in the store that can be only be obtained from the store. See Roper's "demystifying" interview.

    And here's the greed.

    Atari recently went belly-up. They were forced to sell off all of their assets outside of North America.

    Infogrames, Atari's owners, purchased Cryptic and gave them to Atari as a rescue package. Atari's focus is now "online-centric", i.e. all their eggs are in the Cryptic basket.

    Infogrames purchased Cryptic for $17 million, but will pay up to another $48 million if certain profit targets are met by 2011.

    Rather than looking at ways to make their products better and by extension attract more subscribers and increase profits, they've just decided to shove a shopping mall into the game.

    It'll be interesting to see if they manage to make enough from item sales to make up for all the people who would have played but won't because of the microtransactions.

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095
    Originally posted by Rayjer

    Originally posted by Irishoak


    Cryptic thanks you in advance for your sheep-like qualities. And trust me, you're already "that guy." It has nothing to do with high rolling in a video game, but still.



     

    im not going to try and waste my time with some moral video game crusade...its a game, 5 bucks here or there isnt going to break the bank.

    im still running through with what the game has to offer, it looks fun.

    people can complain all they want in these forums...doesnt change a thing :l



     

    Greedy capitalists are always quick to redraw moral boundaries.  Thank God they weren't the ones to ruin our economy.......oh wait.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with standing up for your morals, no matter how cheap it might be to ignore them.  Profit has become the new God and there is no room for morals where it is worshipped.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • MyskMysk Member Posts: 982

    Amazing.  I'm sure glad that I was never interested in this game.  Clothing is one thing, but "practical" items are a big no-no.

  • OrthedosOrthedos Member Posts: 1,771
    Originally posted by Xasapis


     It's called peer pressure. Who's going to run instance X for you one year down the line for a power that is sold in the shop? 
    "Don't be cheap man, just buy the power so we can play in the next tier."
    I can already see it happening.
    Besides, just because you can get it ingame, doesn't mean they can't make it a royal pain in the ass to do so. So much as to get fed up with it and either cave in and just buy the damn thing or bow out. Bottom line, it's a design that promotes short term benefits over long term subscriptions.



     

    That is funny reasoning.

    No one going to run the instance with you?  Some years down the road, everyone has a maxed alt.  We all know that when everyone has a couple maxed alt, the lower level leveling is played out differently.  Even without a RL shop, power levelling and whatever workaround will make it very different.  During the early course of levelling, everyone is learning,  Gear is not going to be the major factor determining who gets group.

    As for royal pain in the ass.  What do you want?  Super easy you grumble, royal pain in the ass you grumble.  No one can satisfy you b/c whatever the level of difficulties, you always find a way to criticize it.

    If the damn thing is available in game thru money or normal in-game drops, then it is alright.  Everyone has the choices available, not just the elite subscribers.  There is no discriminatioin.  Your unwilling to pay for it is your own choice, it is not a discrimination per se.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

     Feel free to pay for artificially segregated content. I prefer that all content is available to me and my only limitation is my available free time (which isn't much these days). It is my choice not to play the game under the current terms imposed by Cryptic. And while I respect other people's choice to fork additional cash for content that should have been defaulted with their subscription, I dread to think of the long term repercussions in the industry, if more developers decide that it is acceptable to assume the role of the gold farmers as well.

    The good news is that so far the games that have confirmed RMT seem to be built for the console crowd. Perhaps the people with consoles are more inclined to fork additional cash, as opposed to the PC crowd.

  • TilranTilran Member Posts: 42

    Wow...you guys really whine too much.

    Its not that bad...everything is cosmetic that you can buy...not game changing....and even the cosmetic stuff (If you are into looking all pretty) you can get from in game quests.

    Pretty much the ONLY reason you have to complain is if you are the type of person who wants everything first, but are broke....because in that scenario....that rich guy who plays will buy all kinds of stuff that you cant afford and flaunt it around town....and you will sit there with your broken down Mazda and cry because you wish YOU could have the Ferrarri.

    Thats all this is...if you worked hard...you could eventually get a Ferrerri...but you want it NOW NOW NOW like the rich guy who just bought it.

    Stop freaking whining...the minute they add GAME CHANGING purchases such as "Buy a max level character" or "Buy super power of doom" then I will join you in the chours of bitching....until then....please shut up. god.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    If you have been following the announcements, you'd know that the CO RMT will be selling more than cosmetic items (which itself is bad in a game where looks is half the game).

  • OrthedosOrthedos Member Posts: 1,771
    Originally posted by Xasapis


     Feel free to pay for artificially segregated content. I prefer that all content is available to me and my only limitation is my available free time (which isn't much these days). It is my choice not to play the game under the current terms imposed by Cryptic. And while I respect other people's choice to fork additional cash for content that should have been defaulted with their subscription, I dread to think of the long term repercussions in the industry, if more developers decide that it is acceptable to assume the role of the gold farmers as well.
    The good news is that so far the games that have confirmed RMT seem to be built for the console crowd. Perhaps the people with consoles are more inclined to fork additional cash, as opposed to the PC crowd.



     

    Tell you what, I prefer more than what you prefer.

    I prefer to be paid the paycheque of Bill Clinton or better still Bill Gates, when playing games.  Not only that, all contents are available to me and I can order any content I like.  Oh yeah and I expect free PC upgrades, new house and life time medical coverage, in order that I can focus on the game.  After all, I am a gamer paying a sub, how important I am.

    All these in the name of worrying about the long term health of the industry, b/c I and only I know about how the industry will go.

    As for console and PC crowds, they are different.  People who dare touch a console will die if he logs onto a PC.  That is my word.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    Feel free to quote me but not read what I've been saying.

    For me subscription + RMT equals the attempt from the developers to corner the normal market + gold farming market, effectively becoming gold farmers themselves. I find that quite distasteful.

    The point is not about the extra money you'll be spending on the RMT shop, it's the impact that RMT shop will have on the overall game design. An RMT shop that sells items noone wants does not exist. Be sure that they will find ways to make those items appealing, if not necessary.

    At what point enough is enough? If not the RMT shop then what? Selling you the content and patch updates? Charging both flat rate and per hour? Personally, my tolerance limit was crossed with this monetary making decision. I am entitled to express my concern as I see fit in these forums. Regardless of what I and the other posters have said here, we're still a vocal minority, so we don't get to influence things, one way or the other.

  • SavvonSavvon Member Posts: 98
    Originally posted by Tilran


    Wow...you guys really whine too much.

    Ignorant statements like these are what Cryptic is banking on.

     

    It is concerning that you do not realize how much damage your ignorance is causing with the future of this genre.

  • IrishoakIrishoak Member Posts: 633
    Originally posted by Tilran


    Wow...you guys really whine too much.
    Its not that bad...everything is cosmetic that you can buy...not game changing....and even the cosmetic stuff (If you are into looking all pretty) you can get from in game quests.
    Pretty much the ONLY reason you have to complain is if you are the type of person who wants everything first, but are broke....because in that scenario....that rich guy who plays will buy all kinds of stuff that you cant afford and flaunt it around town....and you will sit there with your broken down Mazda and cry because you wish YOU could have the Ferrarri.
    Thats all this is...if you worked hard...you could eventually get a Ferrerri...but you want it NOW NOW NOW like the rich guy who just bought it.
    Stop freaking whining...the minute they add GAME CHANGING purchases such as "Buy a max level character" or "Buy super power of doom" then I will join you in the chours of bitching....until then....please shut up. god.

     

    Yes, it's whining. Do you even read before you post?

  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558
    Originally posted by Zlayer77

    Originally posted by andmiller

    Originally posted by Xasapis


    What do you mean we don't know? You don't follow the news?
    www.champions-online.com/node/92892
    They are selling customisation options and powers (aka gear equivalent). And customisation plays a big part in a game like this, because there are no gear to change your look.

     

    This is what it says:

     

    Champions Online will support micro-transactions, but contrary to the concerns of some people, the game is not ‘based’ on them. There are the basic tenets for our micro-transactions:

    * The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.

    * A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character

    * Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap

    * Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play

    Also, it’s important to note that the overwhelming majority of micro-transactions are account-wide. This means if you buy a costume piece or an action figure, every character on your account gets it.

    Finally, many of the pre-order programs that we’re finalizing now have cryptic points associated with them. This is a way for us to allow our players to choose their own pre-order reward(s) which falls into our whole customization concept for Champions Online.

     

    And no, you don't know, because you haven't played it yet.  You have no idea what that means until you've played it.  All reports of this game say the char customization options from jump are staggering, and you are worried that someone can buy a blue cape with Obama's mug on it for $1 that you could earn raiding a dungeon......

    LOL.......

     

    Gahhhhh!  RMT must have been an idea straight from Satan himself!  This is craziness!!!! 

     

    BOYCOTT THIS GAME!



     

    I just have to Bite on this hehe. I realy dont like that I have to fork up extra money to get everything the game has to offer. Im the kind of person who likes to get my hands on every extra little thing in an MMO. I always buy the Limited additions so I can get all the fluff. Knowing this about myself I will buy everything in that ingame store  that I think look cool.

    So I have to ask myself is it realy going to be worth it? There are alot of other games out there why should I pay both for a subscription and Microtransactions, when other games offer me just one of the options?

    I might be better of playing Aion, EvE, Pirates of the burning sea or Mortal online... Champions online is not the  second coming of Christ you know...  So I will probably just play something ells, and I think alot of other people will to. Dose this make Champions online a bad game? NO, dose it say that there devs are pawns of Satan? No. But it just might not be the game that many of us will play, and you just have to live with it.......



     

    you dont

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