While RMT isn't a dealbreaker for me, it does have me "concerned" But you do know who we have to blame for this. Gold-buyer, of course. Yup, those same people we've been pissed about for years. The guys that go to these companies and purchase, levels, characters and in game money for real cash. It was only a matter of time before developers started trying to get that money for themselves.
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
While RMT isn't a dealbreaker for me, it does have me "concerned" But you do know who we have to blame for this. Gold-buyer, of course. Yup, those same people we've been pissed about for years. The guys that go to these companies and purchase, levels, characters and in game money for real cash. It was only a matter of time before developers started trying to get that money for themselves.
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
I completely agree. RMT + subscriptions is nothing more than a scam by the developers to milk the playerbase for as much as possible. It absolutely amazes me that there are actually sheeple in this world that will defend such terrible greed when it does nothing to benefit them.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I completely agree. RMT + subscriptions is nothing more than a scam by the developers to milk the playerbase for as much as possible. It absolutely amazes me that there are actually sheeple in this world that will defend such terrible greed when it does nothing to benefit them.
And this is especially true in the case of Champions Online (and Star Trek Online), where there is a $48 million bonus involved based on meeting certain profit targets by 2011.
Well I've played the game, I like it, obviously they made a bad move and convinced people the game isn't worth much so they had to add MT's. I would say it is better quality than city of heroes could hope to be. Why should a few extra costume pieces be an issue of contension, it's not like you don't have nearly unlimited options for your costume already, and if you can't afford to buy some more pieces then w/e. The money really just gives them reason to make more pieces of armor and pets for those who desire extra options. The game is great and i suggest that you all at least try the beta instead of just saying, "No". Being abhorrent doesn't really get you anywhere, at least be willing to give it a chance.
Most people aren't arguing game mechanics, design or anything of that nature. The game may be awesome, I have hoped it would be for some time now, it's the greed I'm objecting to. They get no "chances," unless it's something completetly different than described as is or they do away with it. I haven't said anything bad about the actual game, as of yet.
1. This is about greed.
2. I do not care if the store contains fluffl items or epics.
3. The store exists at release, that is the major point of conention.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games??
I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
Anyway free games with MT are games where you play them and you are compelled to make MT purchases to be able to play the game. So for these games 100% of the revenue is from MT and all players make MT transactions because to play the game they have to. Sure some of the claim you can play without making MT but the reality is you have to.
I'm definitely against this model with a subscription game. Because thats just lying about the price to play the game. If I'm gonna sub to a game I want to know that it costs me $xx per month and not have to worry that it is going to gouge me for extra money to either play the game or really enjoy playing the game.
So for me the defining issue is if I feel compelled to make MT to play the game. If I can play the game for a set fee and I don't feel any need to buy things from the MT shop then I don't care. If the MT shop has items that I feel I need to buy to be able to progress in the game or be competative in a broad sense with other players then I'm not going to play the game.
I don't really know how to express it differently... I'm kinda for MT in game if it is stuff I don't want. And the more other people buy it the better I see it as a way to have other people discounting the game cost for me A great example is SoE and eq2. There is nothing in the cash shop that interests me in the slightest. But when I hear from fan faire the SoE is making a ton of money on it I'm thrilled. Now they start selling weapons or stuff in there that hurt the market in game in a large way or start making me feel like I gotta buy stuff from the shop to be effective playing the game in groups or raids and I'm gonna be flaming pissed off.
They have blatantly left the door open to put any item in the game they wish as MT, and that open door will be used. You would definitly be naive to think it wouldnt be if it leads them to a pot of gold. That all aside, I have a strong dislike for any in game reward being available via RL money, game effecting or not, because it fundamentally attacks the nature of a game for noone's benefit except the bank account of the shareholder. None of this is being done to make the game better for the player, none of it is being done to make things more 'fun'. It's just done to exploit player weakness (especially addiction weakness) to wring additional revenue out of the gullible.
I don't think I agree that MT's only purpose is to increase revenue and that it won't make the game any better. There are a TON of ways for a MMOG to increase revenue. Why don't people get mad about any of these? Aren't they all done for the sake of greed?
They could spend less to develop the game. It doesn't make anyone mad if a developer announces that their game only cost 20 million to make when others cost 80 million. Its obviously going to increase their profit margin by quite a bit.
They could sell expansions. Are people getting mad that Blizzard used our subscription money to develop expansions? They easily could have released all that new content for free, but they didn't. They held back on us and decided to sell it to us instead.
They could spend less on continued development. Its expensive to maintain all those developers after release. Is it unethical to have only 20 people working on the game rather than 50?
They could stop marketting and advertising. Have you seen anyone say "I quit because I don't see banner ads for your game anymore"?
You see that there are many ways to tweak the profit margin. A company could decide to increase their profit margin without MT's. They could just as easily decide to invest all their profits into continued development for the game. They have the power to do these things either with or without MT's.
There is one thing that is common business sense. If a product is profitable then you invest more money into it. If its not profitable then you invest less money (or no money) in it. Having MT's makes a game more profitable so it must contribute to the possibility of continued development. In another thread I called it 'trickle down superpowers' because the reasoning is similar to trickle down economics. If the game is profitable then they are more likely to spend the money to improve it.
What you're suggesting, vesavius, is that increasing profits will have no effect on continued development. Do you really believe that?
Regardless, it will be a shame not to check it out. Next to DDO and Spellborn it has one of the better combat systems. It also has a great open world feel and loads of different things to do and lots of freedom in character development. It probably would have had quite a bit more lifespan than Spellborn did. BTW, I joined your guild shortly after you quit Spellborn. The first thing I did was ask where vesavius is and they said you stopped playing.
Honestly? I believe that, in a company with finite resource, the part of the game that is making the money, whatever part that is, gets the love.
In Item Mall games that is the Item Mall. Just look at SOE expanding their dev team specifically to further bolster just their Mall shortly after it was launched and they made some sales from it. The rest of the game didnt benefit from the extra money, all new resource went into expanding the Mall so they had more to sell. I can actually find a link to support this is needed, it's just late here and I am tired after a busy weekend
I think we are gonna have to just agree to disagree on Item malls and in game rewards via MT Aganazer. I am always gonna be play to achieve over pay to achieve as a gamer. Like I said at the start, I like your posts and I think your a good guy from the way you come across, so I am happy to leave you to your own opinion over this matter. It's a valid one, even if I don't agree with it
And yeah.. Spellborn... what a shame that all was. Another year in dev and some more money spent and that game could have been one that held me for years. makes me sad to see where they are taking it, especially considering my obvious feelings about ingame MT 'rewards'. I am not even playing mmos right now because of it tbh... though I think the GF is gonna make me join her in Aion soon ><
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
Honestly, you justify their greed by saying they "may" have more overhead. The mind boggles...
I'll save you some time, the development costs of this game are the same as any other AAA title we've seen recently. The servers cost the same. Roper may cost them an additional $102,000,000.00, I can't say.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
There is a huge difference between trying to make more money by MAKING A GOOD GAME, versus trying to make more money by milking more money from the players for the same amount of game. The first, being a good business practice, the second, being pure greed.
Don't worry, I don't like MT, so I won't be buying the entire game at all.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Wow some players in this thread seem to be very gullable. Thinking that fee+microtransactions makes up for a better game because the devs will have more money to spend. There is no given in that. Commercial companies dont work like that. Only competition will make them make better stuff. Just giving them more money wont. MMO players are not investors or shareholders. You have no say in whatever decision concerning the content of the game.
You cant tell what the effect of this extra money is, unless you would let a different company develop the exact same game without the microtransactions and just the fee. Which of course isnt happening. Accepting this payment model, is just accepting a slippery slope where the company offers the same as before just ask more money for it.
Its pathetic how many people are perfectly fine with rolling over for and defend Cryptic.
It seems like Cryptic really is becoming rather underhanded in how they handle things, fitting for their name I guess. The big man behind the game, the same guy who was completely opposed and vehement towards RMT, is now trying to shove it down our throats. The one thing they pushed from the start, is customization. To let us create the heroes (and villians) we want.
To the morons trying to justify the RMT, think of this:
All the costume pieces they are going to have in the item shop at the start, has been thought up, modeled and remodeled, before this idea came to be. Most likely those in the Beta have been using these pieces over and over for their characters. Now, when live releases, guess what? They won't be able to use those said pieces now because they are, of course, relegated to the Item Shop.
Then there's the statement about "Anything that has in-game effects can be earned". It's vague. They want it that way. It protects their collective arses when a few weeks down the line after release, they throw out a bunch of raid-tiered equips, costumes, and enhancements. Call me paranoid, but if they are willing to add in something that WILL limit creativity and customization, something that conflicts with what they are supposed to be all behind, they WILL do this, just a matter of time. And most likely? Those who support RMT will continue to try and support it, as a way for "casuals" to gear up.
Then, of course, is their "system" itself, Cryptic Bucks. I hate companies that add in "middle-men" currencies for their things (Microsoft Points, I'm glaring at you). Its a cheap, bloody ploy to grab more money than you'd like to spend. They refuse to release any info on what the $=C$ conversion is, and how exactly we have to pay for it. Yet I can guarantee it will only be sold in increments (to better suit the Xbox 360 when its released on it).
I've played plenty of F2Ps, some even from the beginning, and watched how RMT that originally promised to give only cosmetic buffs soon turned to +10 Epicness enhances. Hell, the only, ONLY! Fair RMT I've seen, F2P or P2P, was on a private server for a game. You could donate, get some sweet gear, but outside of screwin around (I.E. dueling), that stuff was instantly disabled for anything PvP wise. Pretty said when a bunch of people just doing something they love can make RMT fair, and still get enough to run their shard or two of the game.
Like I said, call me paranoid, but the one thing I'm not, is gullible. When open beta rolls around, this game better offer me a unicorn's gilded horn on a diamond-studded, leprochaun-gold plate, cause I'm gonna down half a gallon of salt with it.
Oh, and a note to some of the more dense members of the populos, WoW has no RMT. AoC has no RMT. WAR has no RMT. Server, Faction, and Name Changes do not count under it. They are services provided outside of the game and are not required of any MMO, F2P or not. Not even the TCGs are RMT. Anyone with a speck of a barely functional braincell could deduce that. They are a stand-alone, with some certain cards also having a chance of being a "Loot" version of itself, which then is a nice little bonus for people who both play the MMO (in this case WoW) and the TCG.
Its pathetic how many people are perfectly fine with rolling over for and defend Cryptic. It seems like Cryptic really is becoming rather underhanded in how they handle things, fitting for their name I guess. The big man behind the game, the same guy who was completely opposed and vehement towards RMT, is now trying to shove it down our throats. The one thing they pushed from the start, is customization. To let us create the heroes (and villians) we want. To the morons trying to justify the RMT, think of this: All the costume pieces they are going to have in the item shop at the start, has been thought up, modeled and remodeled, before this idea came to be. Most likely those in the Beta have been using these pieces over and over for their characters. Now, when live releases, guess what? They won't be able to use those said pieces now because they are, of course, relegated to the Item Shop. Then there's the statement about "Anything that has in-game effects can be earned". It's vague. They want it that way. It protects their collective arses when a few weeks down the line after release, they throw out a bunch of raid-tiered equips, costumes, and enhancements. Call me paranoid, but if they are willing to add in something that WILL limit creativity and customization, something that conflicts with what they are supposed to be all behind, they WILL do this, just a matter of time. And most likely? Those who support RMT will continue to try and support it, as a way for "casuals" to gear up. Then, of course, is their "system" itself, Cryptic Bucks. I hate companies that add in "middle-men" currencies for their things (Microsoft Points, I'm glaring at you). Its a cheap, bloody ploy to grab more money than you'd like to spend. They refuse to release any info on what the $=C$ conversion is, and how exactly we have to pay for it. Yet I can guarantee it will only be sold in increments (to better suit the Xbox 360 when its released on it). I've played plenty of F2Ps, some even from the beginning, and watched how RMT that originally promised to give only cosmetic buffs soon turned to +10 Epicness enhances. Hell, the only, ONLY! Fair RMT I've seen, F2P or P2P, was on a private server for a game. You could donate, get some sweet gear, but outside of screwin around (I.E. dueling), that stuff was instantly disabled for anything PvP wise. Pretty said when a bunch of people just doing something they love can make RMT fair, and still get enough to run their shard or two of the game. Like I said, call me paranoid, but the one thing I'm not, is gullible. When open beta rolls around, this game better offer me a unicorn's gilded horn on a diamond-studded, leprochaun-gold plate, cause I'm gonna down half a gallon of salt with it.
Oh, and a note to some of the more dense members of the populos, WoW has no RMT. AoC has no RMT. WAR has no RMT. Server, Faction, and Name Changes do not count under it. They are services provided outside of the game and are not required of any MMO, F2P or not. Not even the TCGs are RMT. Anyone with a speck of a barely functional braincell could deduce that. They are a stand-alone, with some certain cards also having a chance of being a "Loot" version of itself, which then is a nice little bonus for people who both play the MMO (in this case WoW) and the TCG.
OMG are you this dense? any gmae changing items you can get in game. right there means. there not shooving it down are throats
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
It's true, you don't need to buy from it, but it's a safe bet that all of the top-drawer costume pieces will be a'la carte items, only available from the "Cash-For-Customization" shop. Go ahead and pony up for this game and see if the bulk of any costume upgrades will stay on the top tier and the free items will be crap that nobody except the "Choose Random Costume" crowd will use. Cryptic has no incentive to do other wise. As the people who don't use the item mall trickle away, the ones left will wind up paying more as anything worthwhile comes with a price tag.
Some of us have been around the track with Emmert and Roper in the past. Ask anyone who shelled out 150 bucks for a Hellgate: London Lifetime Subscription what kind of outfit you're dealing with here.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
What you dont get is that some of the development time is being used for the items in the cashshop and not the coregame. Just one thing you can be certain of. The cashshop will have items that are worth buying. Simply because they want to make money of it.
Also what kind of player are you if you would accept items that are difficult to obtain ingame, and then sold just like that as alternative in the cash shop?
XP bonus cashshop items means that coregame xp gain is designed for a maximum amount of sales of xp bonus items. This could mean that if there wasnt a cashshop, you would gain xp faster.
All the items they planned for the cashshop have influenced the design of the game from the get go or at least let them make changes from the moment they decided to add the cashshop. Its not just about creating a core game and then as a bonus slap a cashshop on it with really useless items and just some fluff.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the cashshop will cause more content to be released. Because you have no say about the released content, its more likely that some of the planned content that was meant for the coregame, will be put in the cashshop.
Try to think from a business perspective and you will see that with enough hype you can make this business model happen, without actually having to put extra manpower into the game, just extra profit from the cashshop. As long as enough players are gullable enough.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games?? I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
What you dont get is that some of the development time is being used for the items in the cashshop and not the coregame. Just one thing you can be certain of. The cashshop will have items that are worth buying. Simply because they want to make money of it.
Also what kind of player are you if you would accept items that are difficult to obtain ingame, and then sold just like that as alternative in the cash shop?
XP bonus cashshop items means that coregame xp gain is designed for a maximum amount of sales of xp bonus items. This could mean that if there wasnt a cashshop, you would gain xp faster.
All the items they planned for the cashshop have influenced the design of the game from the get go or at least let them make changes from the moment they decided to add the cashshop. Its not just about creating a core game and then as a bonus slap a cashshop on it with really useless items and just some fluff.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the cashshop will cause more content to be released. Because you have no say about the released content, its more likely that some of the planned content that was meant for the coregame, will be put in the cashshop.
Try to think from a business perspective and you will see that with enough hype you can make this business model happen, without actually having to put extra manpower into the game, just extra profit from the cashshop. As long as enough players are gullable enough.
pshh not from what i can tell in game. funny thing is im not going to touch the shop. cause i wont have to. i dont care if osmeone else gets something before me. it snot a trick its just a biz model to help against gold sellers
Business model to protect against gold sellers? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Seriously, sir, you have mastered the subtle blade we call wit. Well played! Funniest comment ever posted here. You had me going there for a bit I thought you were for the MT store!
I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce.
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate.
What makes you think games are progressively more expensive to produce, and what time frame/ baseline are you using for the comparison? Just because games are newer doesn't mean they cost more. Look at the Wii. Nintendo is shitting gold because they made a cheaper console than their competitors, and thus had higher adoption rates and profit margins. Look at WoW. Its graphics are piss-poor by design so it can run on a large variety of low-end systems. Did it cost Blizzard more to do it that way than it cost Sony to aim for higher poly counts in EQ2? I highly doubt it.
Computer hardware is cheaper now than it has ever been thanks to the economic downturn, so all of the theoretical inflation you're talking about can only come from developer and executive salaries (and maybe marketing budgets, since hyping itself is the one thing this industry is adept at).
While RMT isn't a dealbreaker for me, it does have me "concerned" But you do know who we have to blame for this. Gold-buyer, of course. Yup, those same people we've been pissed about for years. The guys that go to these companies and purchase, levels, characters and in game money for real cash. It was only a matter of time before developers started trying to get that money for themselves.
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
Disagree all you want. But if gold selling/power leveling companies weren't making money hand over fist, we "probably" wouldn't be seeing this. (At least not on the scale that we are beginning to see it on). I mean, this is going to be a part of every major game release for the forseeable future. "Lazy" gamers spend millions on characters, levels, and gold to the point that devs can't figure out effective ways to keep it out of their games. If I were a game company I would obviously be figuring out ways to put at least some of that money into my own pocket. Maybe that is greed, and maybe not. As a businessman if I see a market....
Business model to protect against gold sellers? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Seriously, sir, you have mastered the subtle blade we call wit. Well played! Funniest comment ever posted here. You had me going there for a bit I thought you were for the MT store!
Its all just rationalizing.. thats all it is, those that are for it, are obviously for it because they'll play the game nomatter what. The take it or leave it populace doesn't like the idea... who cares if MTs are optional.. ALL MT games have optional MTs. If you want to experience the whole game then you have to pay for them... obviously the fanboys would rather pay twice with subscriptions and microtransactions.
This is where someone gets smart and says "Well so and so has MTs and is also a subscription game" and to that I call shananigans, for one, define an actual microtransaction model, and look what those games are selling, and two... they didn't have them on launch. So now I'm hearing excuses that this game was MORE expensive then other games, or this game needs them to stop gold spammers....... those... are.... both load of crap, and if you thought hard you'd know it. Not to mention the devs told us exactly why they were doing it.... its for the added revenue.... they know its because of greed.. but they say its to "make the game better" what it really is, is to perpetuate the Microtransaction Model while we suckers continue to pay subscriptions that will go on to form more MTs and Expansions (that they've already confirmed they were working on) so its quite obvious they know just how to get their moneys worth out of their community.
"uh uh uh, so what don't buy them!" Don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of people that don't buy this game, and it won't be just because of the MTs. Think I'm a hater? Read my previous posts in the CO forums on this site...
Comments
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
I completely agree. RMT + subscriptions is nothing more than a scam by the developers to milk the playerbase for as much as possible. It absolutely amazes me that there are actually sheeple in this world that will defend such terrible greed when it does nothing to benefit them.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
And this is especially true in the case of Champions Online (and Star Trek Online), where there is a $48 million bonus involved based on meeting certain profit targets by 2011.
Well I've played the game, I like it, obviously they made a bad move and convinced people the game isn't worth much so they had to add MT's. I would say it is better quality than city of heroes could hope to be. Why should a few extra costume pieces be an issue of contension, it's not like you don't have nearly unlimited options for your costume already, and if you can't afford to buy some more pieces then w/e. The money really just gives them reason to make more pieces of armor and pets for those who desire extra options. The game is great and i suggest that you all at least try the beta instead of just saying, "No". Being abhorrent doesn't really get you anywhere, at least be willing to give it a chance.
Most people aren't arguing game mechanics, design or anything of that nature. The game may be awesome, I have hoped it would be for some time now, it's the greed I'm objecting to. They get no "chances," unless it's something completetly different than described as is or they do away with it. I haven't said anything bad about the actual game, as of yet.
1. This is about greed.
2. I do not care if the store contains fluffl items or epics.
3. The store exists at release, that is the major point of conention.
4. Don't make a stupid analogy.
While I agree that this is largely greed driven - keeping in mind that Atari's recent financial troubles - the issue for me is what kind of game this.
I don't like RMT - period. If I did, I'd be playing free-to-play games with shopping malls.
If I'm paying a subscription, then part of what I'm paying for is the absence of a shopping mall in the game.
So CO gives me less value for money than other mmos.
Greed or the need to be profitable, have a successful business to continue to support the game and develop future games??
I gotta say people that come on and say it's greed are really ignoring some obvious factors. Each game that comes out tends to be more sophisticated, graphically improved, and generally more expensive to produce. Yet year after year the price to sub to games stays pretty much the same. So isn't it possible that it isn't greed but rather survival?
Anyway free games with MT are games where you play them and you are compelled to make MT purchases to be able to play the game. So for these games 100% of the revenue is from MT and all players make MT transactions because to play the game they have to. Sure some of the claim you can play without making MT but the reality is you have to.
I'm definitely against this model with a subscription game. Because thats just lying about the price to play the game. If I'm gonna sub to a game I want to know that it costs me $xx per month and not have to worry that it is going to gouge me for extra money to either play the game or really enjoy playing the game.
So for me the defining issue is if I feel compelled to make MT to play the game. If I can play the game for a set fee and I don't feel any need to buy things from the MT shop then I don't care. If the MT shop has items that I feel I need to buy to be able to progress in the game or be competative in a broad sense with other players then I'm not going to play the game.
I don't really know how to express it differently... I'm kinda for MT in game if it is stuff I don't want. And the more other people buy it the better
I see it as a way to have other people discounting the game cost for me 
A great example is SoE and eq2. There is nothing in the cash shop that interests me in the slightest. But when I hear from fan faire the SoE is making a ton of money on it I'm thrilled. Now they start selling weapons or stuff in there that hurt the market in game in a large way or start making me feel like I gotta buy stuff from the shop to be effective playing the game in groups or raids and I'm gonna be flaming pissed off.
---
Ethion
I don't think I agree that MT's only purpose is to increase revenue and that it won't make the game any better. There are a TON of ways for a MMOG to increase revenue. Why don't people get mad about any of these? Aren't they all done for the sake of greed?
You see that there are many ways to tweak the profit margin. A company could decide to increase their profit margin without MT's. They could just as easily decide to invest all their profits into continued development for the game. They have the power to do these things either with or without MT's.
There is one thing that is common business sense. If a product is profitable then you invest more money into it. If its not profitable then you invest less money (or no money) in it. Having MT's makes a game more profitable so it must contribute to the possibility of continued development. In another thread I called it 'trickle down superpowers' because the reasoning is similar to trickle down economics. If the game is profitable then they are more likely to spend the money to improve it.
What you're suggesting, vesavius, is that increasing profits will have no effect on continued development. Do you really believe that?
Regardless, it will be a shame not to check it out. Next to DDO and Spellborn it has one of the better combat systems. It also has a great open world feel and loads of different things to do and lots of freedom in character development. It probably would have had quite a bit more lifespan than Spellborn did. BTW, I joined your guild shortly after you quit Spellborn. The first thing I did was ask where vesavius is and they said you stopped playing.
Honestly? I believe that, in a company with finite resource, the part of the game that is making the money, whatever part that is, gets the love.
In Item Mall games that is the Item Mall. Just look at SOE expanding their dev team specifically to further bolster just their Mall shortly after it was launched and they made some sales from it. The rest of the game didnt benefit from the extra money, all new resource went into expanding the Mall so they had more to sell. I can actually find a link to support this is needed, it's just late here and I am tired after a busy weekend
I think we are gonna have to just agree to disagree on Item malls and in game rewards via MT Aganazer. I am always gonna be play to achieve over pay to achieve as a gamer. Like I said at the start, I like your posts and I think your a good guy from the way you come across, so I am happy to leave you to your own opinion over this matter. It's a valid one, even if I don't agree with it
And yeah.. Spellborn... what a shame that all was. Another year in dev and some more money spent and that game could have been one that held me for years. makes me sad to see where they are taking it, especially considering my obvious feelings about ingame MT 'rewards'. I am not even playing mmos right now because of it tbh... though I think the GF is gonna make me join her in Aion soon ><
Honestly, you justify their greed by saying they "may" have more overhead. The mind boggles...
I'll save you some time, the development costs of this game are the same as any other AAA title we've seen recently. The servers cost the same. Roper may cost them an additional $102,000,000.00, I can't say.
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
There is a huge difference between trying to make more money by MAKING A GOOD GAME, versus trying to make more money by milking more money from the players for the same amount of game. The first, being a good business practice, the second, being pure greed.
Don't worry, I don't like MT, so I won't be buying the entire game at all.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Wow some players in this thread seem to be very gullable. Thinking that fee+microtransactions makes up for a better game because the devs will have more money to spend. There is no given in that. Commercial companies dont work like that. Only competition will make them make better stuff. Just giving them more money wont. MMO players are not investors or shareholders. You have no say in whatever decision concerning the content of the game.
You cant tell what the effect of this extra money is, unless you would let a different company develop the exact same game without the microtransactions and just the fee. Which of course isnt happening. Accepting this payment model, is just accepting a slippery slope where the company offers the same as before just ask more money for it.
Its pathetic how many people are perfectly fine with rolling over for and defend Cryptic.
It seems like Cryptic really is becoming rather underhanded in how they handle things, fitting for their name I guess. The big man behind the game, the same guy who was completely opposed and vehement towards RMT, is now trying to shove it down our throats. The one thing they pushed from the start, is customization. To let us create the heroes (and villians) we want.
To the morons trying to justify the RMT, think of this:
All the costume pieces they are going to have in the item shop at the start, has been thought up, modeled and remodeled, before this idea came to be. Most likely those in the Beta have been using these pieces over and over for their characters. Now, when live releases, guess what? They won't be able to use those said pieces now because they are, of course, relegated to the Item Shop.
Then there's the statement about "Anything that has in-game effects can be earned". It's vague. They want it that way. It protects their collective arses when a few weeks down the line after release, they throw out a bunch of raid-tiered equips, costumes, and enhancements. Call me paranoid, but if they are willing to add in something that WILL limit creativity and customization, something that conflicts with what they are supposed to be all behind, they WILL do this, just a matter of time. And most likely? Those who support RMT will continue to try and support it, as a way for "casuals" to gear up.
Then, of course, is their "system" itself, Cryptic Bucks. I hate companies that add in "middle-men" currencies for their things (Microsoft Points, I'm glaring at you). Its a cheap, bloody ploy to grab more money than you'd like to spend. They refuse to release any info on what the $=C$ conversion is, and how exactly we have to pay for it. Yet I can guarantee it will only be sold in increments (to better suit the Xbox 360 when its released on it).
I've played plenty of F2Ps, some even from the beginning, and watched how RMT that originally promised to give only cosmetic buffs soon turned to +10 Epicness enhances. Hell, the only, ONLY! Fair RMT I've seen, F2P or P2P, was on a private server for a game. You could donate, get some sweet gear, but outside of screwin around (I.E. dueling), that stuff was instantly disabled for anything PvP wise. Pretty said when a bunch of people just doing something they love can make RMT fair, and still get enough to run their shard or two of the game.
Like I said, call me paranoid, but the one thing I'm not, is gullible. When open beta rolls around, this game better offer me a unicorn's gilded horn on a diamond-studded, leprochaun-gold plate, cause I'm gonna down half a gallon of salt with it.
Oh, and a note to some of the more dense members of the populos, WoW has no RMT. AoC has no RMT. WAR has no RMT. Server, Faction, and Name Changes do not count under it. They are services provided outside of the game and are not required of any MMO, F2P or not. Not even the TCGs are RMT. Anyone with a speck of a barely functional braincell could deduce that. They are a stand-alone, with some certain cards also having a chance of being a "Loot" version of itself, which then is a nice little bonus for people who both play the MMO (in this case WoW) and the TCG.
OMG are you this dense? any gmae changing items you can get in game. right there means. there not shooving it down are throats
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
It's the fact that it exists prior to release, why don't you get that?
It's true, you don't need to buy from it, but it's a safe bet that all of the top-drawer costume pieces will be a'la carte items, only available from the "Cash-For-Customization" shop. Go ahead and pony up for this game and see if the bulk of any costume upgrades will stay on the top tier and the free items will be crap that nobody except the "Choose Random Costume" crowd will use. Cryptic has no incentive to do other wise. As the people who don't use the item mall trickle away, the ones left will wind up paying more as anything worthwhile comes with a price tag.
Some of us have been around the track with Emmert and Roper in the past. Ask anyone who shelled out 150 bucks for a Hellgate: London Lifetime Subscription what kind of outfit you're dealing with here.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
What you dont get is that some of the development time is being used for the items in the cashshop and not the coregame. Just one thing you can be certain of. The cashshop will have items that are worth buying. Simply because they want to make money of it.
Also what kind of player are you if you would accept items that are difficult to obtain ingame, and then sold just like that as alternative in the cash shop?
XP bonus cashshop items means that coregame xp gain is designed for a maximum amount of sales of xp bonus items. This could mean that if there wasnt a cashshop, you would gain xp faster.
All the items they planned for the cashshop have influenced the design of the game from the get go or at least let them make changes from the moment they decided to add the cashshop. Its not just about creating a core game and then as a bonus slap a cashshop on it with really useless items and just some fluff.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the cashshop will cause more content to be released. Because you have no say about the released content, its more likely that some of the planned content that was meant for the coregame, will be put in the cashshop.
Try to think from a business perspective and you will see that with enough hype you can make this business model happen, without actually having to put extra manpower into the game, just extra profit from the cashshop. As long as enough players are gullable enough.
No, no it isn't. You are trying to tell me that all of these other games out there is able to survive off of $15 a month but suddenly Cryptic can't? Nope, it is greed, pure and simple.
Ummm, name me a gaming company that doesn't want to earn as much money as they can from their IP. Your argument is flawed. ALL gaming companies could be called greedy. All of them are in it for the money.
If you don't like MT's, great, don't buy anything from them. There is still an abundance of content in game. There is no need to buy anything from them.
I'm not buying the game because of the MT not just items from the MT. His arguement is flawwed yet you let the OP of that quote post they need to do it to survive? Seriously.
you dont need to buy from it why dont you people get this?
What you dont get is that some of the development time is being used for the items in the cashshop and not the coregame. Just one thing you can be certain of. The cashshop will have items that are worth buying. Simply because they want to make money of it.
Also what kind of player are you if you would accept items that are difficult to obtain ingame, and then sold just like that as alternative in the cash shop?
XP bonus cashshop items means that coregame xp gain is designed for a maximum amount of sales of xp bonus items. This could mean that if there wasnt a cashshop, you would gain xp faster.
All the items they planned for the cashshop have influenced the design of the game from the get go or at least let them make changes from the moment they decided to add the cashshop. Its not just about creating a core game and then as a bonus slap a cashshop on it with really useless items and just some fluff.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that the cashshop will cause more content to be released. Because you have no say about the released content, its more likely that some of the planned content that was meant for the coregame, will be put in the cashshop.
Try to think from a business perspective and you will see that with enough hype you can make this business model happen, without actually having to put extra manpower into the game, just extra profit from the cashshop. As long as enough players are gullable enough.
pshh not from what i can tell in game. funny thing is im not going to touch the shop. cause i wont have to. i dont care if osmeone else gets something before me. it snot a trick its just a biz model to help against gold sellers
Business model to protect against gold sellers? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Seriously, sir, you have mastered the subtle blade we call wit. Well played! Funniest comment ever posted here. You had me going there for a bit I thought you were for the MT store!
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate.
What makes you think games are progressively more expensive to produce, and what time frame/ baseline are you using for the comparison? Just because games are newer doesn't mean they cost more. Look at the Wii. Nintendo is shitting gold because they made a cheaper console than their competitors, and thus had higher adoption rates and profit margins. Look at WoW. Its graphics are piss-poor by design so it can run on a large variety of low-end systems. Did it cost Blizzard more to do it that way than it cost Sony to aim for higher poly counts in EQ2? I highly doubt it.
Computer hardware is cheaper now than it has ever been thanks to the economic downturn, so all of the theoretical inflation you're talking about can only come from developer and executive salaries (and maybe marketing budgets, since hyping itself is the one thing this industry is adept at).
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.
You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online? I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ. Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.
So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.
I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX... EA obviously had this idea a long time ago.. One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*
Kind of sad tho to be honest. You know why?
Because rather than having developers sit down and say:
1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.
or
2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.
Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.
So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be. The development companies. It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.
This is just my opinion... obviously....
Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played. Rather than another way to milk money out of people.
Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.
Disagree all you want. But if gold selling/power leveling companies weren't making money hand over fist, we "probably" wouldn't be seeing this. (At least not on the scale that we are beginning to see it on). I mean, this is going to be a part of every major game release for the forseeable future. "Lazy" gamers spend millions on characters, levels, and gold to the point that devs can't figure out effective ways to keep it out of their games. If I were a game company I would obviously be figuring out ways to put at least some of that money into my own pocket. Maybe that is greed, and maybe not. As a businessman if I see a market....
Its all just rationalizing.. thats all it is, those that are for it, are obviously for it because they'll play the game nomatter what. The take it or leave it populace doesn't like the idea... who cares if MTs are optional.. ALL MT games have optional MTs. If you want to experience the whole game then you have to pay for them... obviously the fanboys would rather pay twice with subscriptions and microtransactions.
This is where someone gets smart and says "Well so and so has MTs and is also a subscription game" and to that I call shananigans, for one, define an actual microtransaction model, and look what those games are selling, and two... they didn't have them on launch. So now I'm hearing excuses that this game was MORE expensive then other games, or this game needs them to stop gold spammers....... those... are.... both load of crap, and if you thought hard you'd know it. Not to mention the devs told us exactly why they were doing it.... its for the added revenue.... they know its because of greed.. but they say its to "make the game better" what it really is, is to perpetuate the Microtransaction Model while we suckers continue to pay subscriptions that will go on to form more MTs and Expansions (that they've already confirmed they were working on) so its quite obvious they know just how to get their moneys worth out of their community.
"uh uh uh, so what don't buy them!" Don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of people that don't buy this game, and it won't be just because of the MTs. Think I'm a hater? Read my previous posts in the CO forums on this site...