Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Rebel 'senator' removed
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I dont think the choice of title for these community representatives was chosen well...like Senator...yeah senators are in the starwars lore but i dont find it fitting to them. Senators in Starwars were bastions of democracy and freedom........
I think Governor or Grand Moff would have been a more fitting title.......deception, spin, propaganda is what they did well.....
I think they should name them Jawas. They're loud, obnoxious, and noone understands anything they say.
Only if you set aside a basic expectation for rational and professional behaviour. If you expect Draakull to be immature, reactionary, high on power and low on people skills, I think it starts to make a lot of sense in a twisted sort of way, unfortunately.
That makes bad business sense. Why would you ban half your subscribers?
/cheapshotmodeoff
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
People spread lies and rumours about me all the time, for some its the only thing they log into the forums for.
I requested to be returned to regular player status after ending my last term as Game Play Senator as the Blue Glowie title held bad memories for me. After the NGE, all correspondents were made into Blue Glowies. I was Pistoleer correspondent at the time and working for six months to have my profession deleted is not something I like to be remined of.
I only nominated myself for the Rebel Senator position because players asked me to.
The main skill requirement at SOE in my opinion seems to be a willingness to tow the party line, or as one dev said, "build a toilet in the living room if the boss tells you too" (or words to that effect).
A former community manager (greypawn) has said that he was mainly asked to manage the expectations of the players. I guess by hiring a guy like Draakul, expectations are managed by default. If this is the company representative, what hope is their for positive developments? Not much imo. Mission accomplished I guess; expectations are being managed, and he certainly seems to tow the party line.
maybe, I must admit that my expectations of him are at a low. I was sort of shocked to see someone in that position whose tone towards the community seems to be one of contempt. He might just as well come right out and tell us all to "suck it up" because that's the message I get.
Plus, I really find his use of grammar to be quite perplexing, there are some of his posts where I swear I need a translator for. It's not even that I particularly care when people can't type or misspell words, it happens to everyone ( especially me) but this guy has a serious problem with the English language. When my husband is confused when reading Drakull's posts I can understand why, he is German and English is his second language although he is utterly fluent in it, but when I ( native English speaker from both the UK and Canada) have no idea what the guy is trying to say either...that's a sad state of affairs.
A community manager should be able to communicate in an appropriate and understandable manner. He / she should treat the community with respect regardless of the flames on the boards, the majority of the players are not like that and it's sad to lump everyone in on the same boat. Yes you will get idiots calling you to the floor but publicly slamming them and everyone else is bad karma.
I have no idea what Tux did nor, to be honest, do I want to but i sure understand why the community is upset about what and how his removal happened.
A community relations (and customer service) are supposed to take the heat from customers so the guys behind the doors can do their work without distraction. Draakull clearly can't take the heat, he's supposed to absorb it, I worked as a customer service in a hotel and I've had people bitch at me about how our service (or directly at me) blows, and I didn't tell them to just leave, I told them that we'll do something about it. Draakull pretty much takes offense of everything personally and boots the users off, when a customer tells you that you're not doing your job, then you damn well aren't doing your job. The customer is ALWAYS right, no matter what.
People spread lies and rumours about me all the time, for some its the only thing they log into the forums for.
I requested to be returned to regular player status after ending my last term as Game Play Senator as the Blue Glowie title held bad memories for me. After the NGE, all correspondents were made into Blue Glowies. I was Pistoleer correspondent at the time and working for six months to have my profession deleted is not something I like to be remined of.
I only nominated myself for the Rebel Senator position because players asked me to.
The senate is far from what Greypawn wanted when he revitalised the senate. Greypawn actualy had in his head that the senate would be a factor in future development. However, the people he chose, for the senate, went nuts with proposal after proposal and that, I'm sure didn't set well with Blixtev. The next unsurmountable problem was Blix was not going to relinquish even 1% control of what to develop and what not to. Greypawn's vision might have worked with Loche in control of development as Loche seems to be the only Lead Dev that has actualy listened to feedback and developed for it. The problem with that, at this late date, is Locke doesn't have the resouces, people or budget, now to do much of anything. Ironic, it's the old style SOE of we'll do anything and CHANGE everything we want to this game that gave Loche his lowered team and lowered budget.
So, basicly, the senate is a non-factor with no more pull, now, than it had when you were Pistoleer correspondent. And we see what good that did.
Any time a senator voices concerns over anything, they are quickly removed or quieted. Arcon over GU-3, the BH senator Shis?, and now Tux. And you want to get yourself back into that? Why?
The problem I have with your senatorship, is you tend to grab onto the SOE Austin/Blixtev method of doing things. "We know best" and push your personal agenda over the voices of the community. I still remember your post that cost you your GP seat. "I'm not finished with this, I still have more to do, I'm going to do...........". Seems SOE thought as much of that 1 as most of the community did.
Big deal - It's SOE after all. I can't believe people are still getting upset over this kind of thing. If you're going to play an SOE MMO you need to grow some thicker skin and just live with the fact that as a member of the game's community you have absolutely no say.
funny really, you'd think we'd be used to this by now.
You know, statements like this used to really pi$$ me off, but to tell you the truth, I'm starting to agree with this mode of thought.
I LOVED Pre-CU. So much. But it is gone with no hope of returning (Emus are all well and good but it won't bring back the vibrant community).
SWG is truly dead (the latest vet trial proved that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt). Let Drakull and BadgerSmacker have it. I predict BS'll drop it the second TOR launches anyway.
You know, statements like this used to really pi$$ me off, but to tell you the truth, I'm starting to agree with this mode of thought.
I LOVED Pre-CU. So much. But it is gone with no hope of returning (Emus are all well and good but it won't bring back the vibrant community).
SWG is truly dead (the latest vet trial proved that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt). Let Drakull and BadgerSmacker have it. I predict BS'll drop it the second TOR launches anyway.
My problem with that line of thinking is that if the type of behavior SOE constantly exhibits towards their customers is ignored, other companies may decide that it is okay to treat their customers in a similar manner. It isn't about players having a say in how the games are developed. It is about companies not treating their customers with outright contempt, as SOE constantly does.
once again $OE shows how out touch it is with us real gamers
$OE pulling bs like this is why we are fighting them at every turn and showing the world how much $OE sucks and why we are upset
Eh it might just be an SOE thing I guess. When Gordon Walton was at SOE there did seem to be a LOT of communication. Then he left and well... no need to rehash that.
I don't really have anything to add.. it was just this behaviour has been showing up in EQ2. With the one Red Name on our forum doing personal attacks and flames to posters. I don't really post on the SOE boards but I did (lol) report both the post to the moderator.. of course the Mod is the person I reported but I had to do it.
I really don't honestly understand attacking or trying to piss off your customers... I really don't.
Along with the idea if they removed this Senator for a supposed reason.. they could have this thing called "communication". Then again I guess if you have communication and your "reason" is just going to piss off even more customers.. its not a good thing.
I finally hit cancel on my last station access account.. because I honestly am not paying a company that let's its employees treat customers badly and/or break their own terms of service on forums etc
MMO's really are optional... and if enough people actually leave then a bunch of people don't have jobs. That's the reason I don't really understand the behaviour that SOE let's happen on a daily basis. Dev Tracker at least on the EQ2 forums has been a pretty easy way to see the personal attacks/flames being put down on customers.
/shrug
You know, statements like this used to really pi$$ me off, but to tell you the truth, I'm starting to agree with this mode of thought.
I LOVED Pre-CU. So much. But it is gone with no hope of returning (Emus are all well and good but it won't bring back the vibrant community).
SWG is truly dead (the latest vet trial proved that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt). Let Drakull and BadgerSmacker have it. I predict BS'll drop it the second TOR launches anyway.
My problem with that line of thinking is that if the type of behavior SOE constantly exhibits towards their customers is ignored, other companies may decide that it is okay to treat their customers in a similar manner. It isn't about players having a say in how the games are developed. It is about companies not treating their customers with outright contempt, as SOE constantly does.
Don't get me wrong Obee, I agree whole-heartedly about attempting to protect fellow gamer-consumers from getting ripped off by SOE. I'll never stop bitching about SOE in that respect.
As far as worrying about other companies taking SOE's cue and treating their customers like garbage (as SOE has modeled), I'd only really worry about that if the NGE was in any way whatsoever, a success. I used to feel uncertainty about whether or not SOEs actions would give other Dev/Publishers an excuse to treat us badly back when SOE was touting the NGE as the greatest thing to ever happen to SWG. But they've since been proven very, very wrong, and it's quite plain to see they have failed to a degree nobody ever imagined possible. Many other devs from competing MMOs have even acknowledged the NGE as a huge mistake. I feel quite confident that SOE is no longer thought of as an infuential force in 'how to run an MMO business', rather, the laughing stock.
My point is about my own (blind) hopefullness that SOE would see the error of their ways and turn things around. I've given up on that. Events such as the one that prompted this thread have cemented that fact.
You know, statements like this used to really pi$$ me off, but to tell you the truth, I'm starting to agree with this mode of thought.
I LOVED Pre-CU. So much. But it is gone with no hope of returning (Emus are all well and good but it won't bring back the vibrant community).
SWG is truly dead (the latest vet trial proved that to me beyond a shadow of a doubt). Let Drakull and BadgerSmacker have it. I predict BS'll drop it the second TOR launches anyway.
My problem with that line of thinking is that if the type of behavior SOE constantly exhibits towards their customers is ignored, other companies may decide that it is okay to treat their customers in a similar manner. It isn't about players having a say in how the games are developed. It is about companies not treating their customers with outright contempt, as SOE constantly does.
Don't get me wrong Obee, I agree whole-heartedly about attempting to protect fellow gamer-consumers from getting ripped off by SOE. I'll never stop bitching about SOE in that respect.
As far as worrying about other companies taking SOE's cue and treating their customers like garbage (as SOE has modeled), I'd only really worry about that if the NGE was in any way whatsoever, a success. I used to feel uncertainty about whether or not SOEs actions would give other Dev/Publishers an excuse to treat us badly back when SOE was touting the NGE as the greatest thing to ever happen to SWG. But they've since been proven very, very wrong, and it's quite plain to see they have failed to a degree nobody ever imagined possible. Many other devs from competing MMOs have even acknowledged the NGE as a huge mistake. I feel quite confident that SOE is no longer thought of as an infuential force in 'how to run an MMO business', rather, the laughing stock.
My point is about my own (blind) hopefullness that SOE would see the error of their ways and turn things around. I've given up on that. Events such as the one that prompted this thread have cemented that fact.
The way SOE treats their customers goes far beyond the NGE or even SWG. Sure the NGE was a huge screw up, and is rightfully seen as such by folks in the industry, but that in no way means other aspects of SOE's business practices won't be copied by other companies. Customer service across the board in MMOs is abysmal, primarily because SOE had abysmal customer service from the time EQ launched, and it is now seen as how customer service is supposed to function for MMOs. The reason incomplete products are shipped along with empty promises of finishing them later is because SOE, and EA with UO, did it. SOE was a leader in setting the bar so low that nobody feels the need to do more than the bare minimum. Even companies who used to have good customer service (such as Blizzard and Turbine) are inching closer to the standards set early on by SOE.
I'm not concerned with SOE becoming a better company, since they have no product, both current and announced, that I have any interest in playing. I am concerned with other companies seeing that SOE's customers are willing to be treated like an abused spouse in denial, and deciding they can get away with similar behavior. Unfortunately, many people who are in the industry still see SOE as a leader, which makes their judgement highly questonable, based on SOE's past success with EQ. It only takes one or two people with influence to screw up other companies, and as long as there are enough customers willing to tolerate such behavior, whether from SOE or another company, those of us who are unwilling to tolerate such behavior will find ourselves with diminishing choices in the genre.
While everyone laments the state of the games available in the genre, the real problems continue to go unnoticed. There is much less wrong with the games than there is with the folks who are making the games. I still hold out hope that that will someday change. If we ignore the problems, that won't happen.
I agree, that's how customer service and community management is supposed to work.
However, in six years of frequenting the SOE boards for two games, SWG and EQ2, I have never seen any developer or any company representative ever respond positively contructively to any post made by a subscriber.
Oh, they use the forums to make announcements but of course there's never any discussion of those announcements and, whetever feedback they receive, nothing in those announcements is ever changed. And when they have done something particularly stupid or crass, Smedley or his staff may make a 'Tell us what you think - we're listening' thread, then they leave that thread alonge till it reaches 300 pages and finally delete it.
I doubt that the producer of the game or the creative lead or the senior programmer pays any attention to the forums at all. And that means they don't pay any attention to the community manager either, however incompetent, biaised and mad they may be.
I agree, that's how customer service and community management is supposed to work.
However, in six years of frequenting the SOE boards for two games, SWG and EQ2, I have never seen any developer or any company representative ever respond positively contructively to any post made by a subscriber.
Oh, they use the forums to make announcements but of course there's never any discussion of those announcements and, whetever feedback they receive, nothing in those announcements is ever changed. And when they have done something particularly stupid or crass, Smedley or his staff may make a 'Tell us what you think - we're listening' thread, then they leave that thread alonge till it reaches 300 pages and finally delete it.
I doubt that the producer of the game or the creative lead or the senior programmer pays any attention to the forums at all. And that means they don't pay any attention to the community manager either, however incompetent, biaised and mad they may be.
The way SOE has been acting since the NGE I really dont think they want players. Might be that the only way to close the game is to show no profit so they can get out of the contract with LA. Might be that LA is keeping the game going to punish SOE for failing to deliver.
Holy cow, people still talk about this game?
I agree, that's how customer service and community management is supposed to work.
However, in six years of frequenting the SOE boards for two games, SWG and EQ2, I have never seen any developer or any company representative ever respond positively contructively to any post made by a subscriber.
Oh, they use the forums to make announcements but of course there's never any discussion of those announcements and, whetever feedback they receive, nothing in those announcements is ever changed. And when they have done something particularly stupid or crass, Smedley or his staff may make a 'Tell us what you think - we're listening' thread, then they leave that thread alonge till it reaches 300 pages and finally delete it.
I doubt that the producer of the game or the creative lead or the senior programmer pays any attention to the forums at all. And that means they don't pay any attention to the community manager either, however incompetent, biaised and mad they may be.
The way SOE has been acting since the NGE I really dont think they want players. Might be that the only way to close the game is to show no profit so they can get out of the contract with LA. Might be that LA is keeping the game going to punish SOE for failing to deliver.
That is not beyond the realm of possibility.
Just stop paying and playing, biggest chunk-O-crap since 2005
Ya. It is longest trainwreck in history of MMO gaming.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Senator or not. If normal players arent allowed to troll the forums, then a senator cant either. Calling his trolling 'constructive critisism' would be understatement of the year. Getting personal is always a big no on official boards of any game.
Oh btw, I agree about Draakull. That CM talks way too much and wants to be understood all the time. Its like he is treating the boards as his private therapy session.
But that doesnt change the fact that I think it was a right call to remove Tux as senator.
Found the thread, page 21 and read most of his responses and especially Max-Power's post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?start=300&topic_id=925655