"Darkfall is a game that seems to fall short on just about everything it has"
Yet it gets a 6.0? To me, a game that falls short in everything it has is an utter failure as a game. And potential doesn't count. An mmo has to have it at launch, not the potential of being good 1-2 years after launch. I'm long gone after that. Either the score is too high or this is a poor choice of words to sum up the game. Either way, I won't be playing it.
One random note. The "description" (in this case 6 / Acceptable) word we use with each review is probably outdated. As far as our editorial guidelines go, we look at this kind of like school (9 is an A, 7 is a C, etc.). Thus, to us, 6 is a D. Acceptable is not really the correct descriptor word (we're working on that).
AFAIK D is a 5
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
I agree... Like others have said the review seems pretty accurate when you read it, I just don't know how that translates to a 6. Reading the review gives the impression that the game has some good ideas, mostly executed poorly... but somehow it's above average. My question is, how bad does a game have to be to get a 5 or below from you guys. What is the point of a rating scale that really only goes from 5 to 10? Does a game automatically get 5 points just for firing up and running?
One random note. The "description" (in this case 6 / Acceptable) word we use with each review is probably outdated. As far as our editorial guidelines go, we look at this kind of like school (9 is an A, 7 is a C, etc.). Thus, to us, 6 is a D. Acceptable is not really the correct descriptor word (we're working on that).
AFAIK D is a 5
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
This is quite clever from MMORPG, they mention the pros (and mostly) cons giving a good general impression of what you can expect for your 50$'s but then give a middle of the road score so they don't alienate either spectrum of the community or goad the wrath of another bad review nerd rage from Tasos the almighty.
Its what they have been doing with the moderation of the Darkfall forum section for a long time and I think its worked out quite well for all concerned, Aventurine and their lackeys excluded of course.
When a reviewer mentions "good concepts and non standard design" as 2 of the 3 pros you know their really struggling.
Been following this thread, and had to create an account here to just express what I've played of Darkfall Online
Aventurine have expressed this and so has this review, the game is for a niche market. people who want to have open world pvp with full loot tables and it does delivery well on this. I've been playing Darkfall online since release and can see why so many people think this is a poor game but many people are basing the entire point of their argument on the graphics.
Darkfall's graphics are good, the're not awesome and not bad they are simply "ok". and I have learned a long time ago that if the graphics are good enough it isn't a hinderance to the gameplay, and graphics have to be pretty bad for me not to enjoy a game.
Gameplay is all that matters to me and Darkfall delivers, gives me the option to do what I want and have a good time.
I cant also help but notice this was a very brief review, some key points were missed out on what Darkfall offers.
- Naval Combat
- Tank combat
- Mounted Combat
- Trading
- Villages, player housing, siege warfare, large scale combat etc...
You simply cant review darkfall without spending alot of time in the game, and I'm talking a month or two. also joining an active guild is essential.
IMO Darkfall reviewers need to get involved with an allianced guild to experience the more assets as stated above darkfall has to offer. as if you are reviewing the game on it's early points you may be disillusioned.
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale! Where I went to school (and what I told the writer): 10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work. Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Been following this thread, and had to create an account here to just express what I've played of Darkfall Online Aventurine have expressed this and so has this review, the game is for a niche market. people who want to have open world pvp with full loot tables and it does delivery well on this. I've been playing Darkfall online since release and can see why so many people think this is a poor game but many people are basing the entire point of their argument on the graphics. Darkfall's graphics are good, the're not awesome and not bad they are simply "ok". and I have learned a long time ago that if the graphics are good enough it isn't a hinderance to the gameplay, and graphics have to be pretty bad for me not to enjoy a game. Gameplay is all that matters to me and Darkfall delivers, gives me the option to do what I want and have a good time. I cant also help but notice this was a very brief review, some key points were missed out on what Darkfall offers. - Naval Combat - Tank combat - Mounted Combat - Trading - Villages, player housing, siege warfare, large scale combat etc... You simply cant review darkfall without spending alot of time in the game, and I'm talking a month or two. also joining an active guild is essential. IMO Darkfall reviewers need to get involved with an allianced guild to experience the more assets as stated above darkfall has to offer. as if you are reviewing the game on it's early points you may be disillusioned.
DF is the first sandbox that seems to have certain requirements before you can start having fun. Interesting way to go about it. So to say that the reviewer must do this and that first sort of proves its not really all that sandbox otherwise they could do what they want and have fun with it.
It doesn't have any requirements. If you have not played it you wont really know.
You can build a ship if you want to but it's going to take an awful lot of time on your own, their is only a certain amount of things you can do on your own before you'll need the help of other people. as with any mmo.
put simply if you want to experience the high end things in Darkfall, you dont need to grind your skills up. You just need to join an active guild within an alliance which already has access to most high end things.
Any mmo you cant do what you want, but you can do more with other people. Kind of defeats the object of an MMO if you're not grouping up.
Not suprise by the 6 coming from this site. Their review is always biased. Game sucks and they give it a 6. I cant wait for real reviewer (like Xplay) to review this game. At least they are not afraid to say it SUCKS when it does. I'm sure Darkfall review on Xplay will get a maximum of 2 out 5.
What exactly did Bulger not like? "the controls aren't set up as well as they could be" So rebind them. Big deal. "the interface itself is horribly ugly and extremely clunky." Ugly? Opinion. Clunky? Why not just bind a key to each and every interface window? M for map. B for backpack. etc? Usually when I read reviews about a interface I hear words like functionality and design. "You then have to drag each item over into your own inventory window one by one. That alone would be enough to irritate an awful lot of people.." "What did bother me was the inventory screen...This was just irritating, and as someone who insists on a neatly organized bag" Do don't like manual loot we get it. I am not sure what the inventory screen is but lets assume it's the backpack/bank. It wasn't to your liking. Fine, you're OCD about all your pretty little trinkets. Get colored sacks and bags and organize your little heart out. This is such an insignificant aspect of the game, to waste 11 lines on it is ridiculous. "...hunting in PvE can be a pretty slow affair with few mobs in the world, and a sizable enough grind to get your skills up. " This either says to me, 1) you never left the starter city, or 2) you never got into a group of 3-4 other people. There are a lot of monsters in this game, and most are killable with a small group. "You'll be fighting the same things for long stretches of time." Yea, if you're solo. Darkfall is not designed for a solo gamer. "While I crashed slightly less than I did when Vanguard was first released, I actually felt that even that game had received more polish." You cannot compare polish to stability. "there's painfully few quests - although the gameplay is about straight PvP anyway - the interface is horrific, the animations are sub par and not well varied. Combat, as nice as it might sound, even felt pretty clunky." Quests are fluff as they have no place in a FFA PvP large scale sieging game. Again with the interface, I assume you are bagging on inventory management? It is impossible to have elaborate animations and effects when you have a hundred people running around on your screen. Clunky again. We get it, you favor polish over functionality. I find it amazing that you don't mention sieging at all. Did you ever enter a player city or hamlet? Did you join a clan? You more or less preface your review by stating that "It focuses on an open-PvP environment, player-controlled territory, sieges, and guild/alliance wars" but then fail to mention your experience with any of it. You say that you "had a chance to play on the European server both before and after the last major patch" but then mention nothing of the new content or your experince with it. Were you a red or a blue? Did you do any mounted combat? Did you do any crafting? Did you get on a boat? Did you particiapte in a siege? A raid? What did you think about archery? Magic use? Did you feel anyhtign was overpowered? Did you get ganked? Did you gank? Did you witness cheaters? Did you see macroers? Did you feel you had to macro? What do you think of bloodwalls? Did you like the chat interface? Do you like the improvements they have been making to the game? What about transfers? You're playing on EU, would you wait to transfer or buy a new client? What do you feel about the lack of a skill cap? Honestly, what kind of review was this? You didn't seem to do any more than the 1st Eurogamer fool did, but you gave it a score 3 times better. There are numerous issues, good and bad, with this game that need to be discussed. This review does nothing but regurgitate the same crap that anyone with WoW background can relate to. Can anyone in the industry competently review a game anymore?
Yes this was all what I was thinking as I read the review. I don't see how you can play the game for 3 weeks and not have experienced the core of the game which is world PVP and territorial conquest. What about mounted combat? What about sieges? What about boats? What about all the new expansion content?
If I were reviewing EVE and didn't experience 0.0 fleet combat or low-sec piracy or any of its other sandbox gameplay I would rate it a 2/10 because it too has almost no quests, awkward controls, initimidating interface, and vast areas of seemingly empty space and copy'n'paste stations and interiors. But that wouldn't be really reviewing EVE the game, would it?
So it is with this review of Darkfall. It's as bad as those reviews of A.o.C. were where they only played up to the end of Tortage and gave it a great score. If you aren't going to experience the core features of the game you're reviewing I just don't see what the point of reviewing is.
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale! Where I went to school (and what I told the writer): 10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work. Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
We gave it a six because that's what the reviewer scored it as. The guy who wrote the words applied the score.
Originally posted by atziluth
Originally posted by Dana
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale! Where I went to school (and what I told the writer): 10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work. Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
The review seems good, but it does make it sound far worse than a six. Havent played it myself (and wont be the more I hear) but it does seem weird that you read the review and would expect that to be a four or five (maybe). I guess there is some compromise going on here
[quote]Originally posted by MortalStrike [quote]Originally posted by panchoe
Yes this was all what I was thinking as I read the review. I don't see how you can play the game for 3 weeks and not have experienced the core of the game which is world PVP and territorial conquest. What about mounted combat? What about sieges? What about boats? What about all the new expansion content?
If I were reviewing EVE and didn't experience 0.0 fleet combat or low-sec piracy or any of its other sandbox gameplay I would rate it a 2/10 because it too has almost no quests, awkward controls, initimidating interface, and vast areas of seemingly empty space and copy'n'paste stations and interiors. But that wouldn't be really reviewing EVE the game, would it?
So it is with this review of Darkfall. It's as bad as those reviews of A.o.C. were where they only played up to the end of Tortage and gave it a great score. If you aren't going to experience the core features of the game you're reviewing I just don't see what the point of reviewing is.
Exactly my sentiments, Eve, Darkfall, Mortal online etc are very in depth games and some of the redeeming features are far into the game. They are easily accessible through alliances if you join one after getting used to the combat etc.
Hey everyone - This debate has gotten me thinking. Honestly, I think our score matches our text, at least as far as our guidelines go, but I also see how they fail to sync up at a glance to some people.
So, I've put out a call for ideas and feedback. Please keep the discussion limited to the topic of review scores and not argue about this particular one
i dont think the review went into the scales of combat enough, i dont think a games review should omit the community, or the developers who support the game.
i feel like it didnt bother to hit the high end features, or the low end features, yet stayed middle ground going "the idea is good, the execution, not so much." for most of the review.
After reading what Dana wrote as what their scores mean... i get it.
however metacritics and other sites that review using a 10 point system..... dont require you to be the worst game in existance to fall into a 4. MMorpg seems to be.
i dunno, i felt the words were fair, but the score didnt reflect the words.
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale! Where I went to school (and what I told the writer): 10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work. Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Nah, that was silly. A six or five for DF sounds about right. Apparently there ARE people in there having a good time yet it has many flaws and subpar aspects it seems. And a 6 isn't ALL too generous either, and especially not for a subscription based game.
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale! Where I went to school (and what I told the writer): 10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work. Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
Agreed.
I just sent your post around as part of our discussion on this. Liking your idea. Cannot say for sure if it is practical/will work for a thousand reasons, but I do appreciate some well thought out feedback when I see it.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Sean clearly approached this review with a genuine attempt to be fair and with no agenda. Of course, any person reviewing any game can only be objective to some extent, afterall, how they personally "feel" is valid and always part of the review.
While it is certainly not necessary for one to have experience playing Ultima Online Pre-Trammel, or Darktide in AC1, to enjoy DFO, it is very clear that Sean never played either. Things that bother him about DFO are aspects of the game many of us not only enjoy, but have a deeper understanding of why they exist and therefore less concern over the result; for example Sean really dislikes losing control over his character while looting, taking one item at a time.
Sean talks about graphics and compliments World Building, but fails to provide his system specs. I don't know about you, but I fail to understand how any person can comment on graphics and not state what video card, resolution and monitor is as reference.
Sean says "how you interact with the environment feels ""STRANGE"".." That's true, but only to the extent you understand how to do it. /baffled
He tells Casual Gamers to "Avoid DFO like the Plague". I don't know if this is just Sean, or trauma from having played from the start on EU. On the NA server we have very casual gamers in our guild and we take them hunting and on PvP raids, and they have just as much fun as any one else and definately contribute.
Sean appears to be the typical MMO gamer in many respects, so to that extent the review probably has meaning and mirrors what some would experience. Unfortunately on so many levels, DFO is just not for Sean in the areas that he finds "strange", and he draws conclusions that are extreme and flat out wrong.
After all the posts, debates and reviews it is quite obvious that DFO is one of those games you simply have to try yourself to know if it's for you. For some it sucks, and for others like myself, it's the best game I've played since UO. I've met people in game and on the boards who absolutely love DFO and find the graphics awesome, and expected the reverse.
Sean makes some very good points and constructive criticism. I can only hope those reading it understand this is merely one persons opinion, and conclusions are projections based upon his personal experience alone. I can't relate to Sean's review, as my experience is quite different and far more favorable.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
This is a complaint against the current reviewing system.
I think a 6 is fair from a PvP-MMO player's perspective - especially as this game is breaking new ground and is reviewed from the blinkered perspective of the level/themepark MMO market. Please note that I am not saying the reviewer is blinkered but that the system of grading is. He has to compare it to games such as WoW because that is how the system works.
There is definitely a fundamental flaw in game reviewing. I hate WoW because it has levels but it gets a 9 or whatever. As someone that wants to play an MMO I would think "ok great" that is a good score. However, the score is for a type of genre, or sub-genre, which is different from a game such as Darkfall. Yes, Darkfall and MMO are not in the same genre. MMO's are far to diverse to all lump into one group. At the very least a numerical score should come with a lot more specific details such as whether it is level based, FPS, quest driven, size of developer etc. Say 9L would be WoW's score - L donating its very specific sub-genre and Darkfall would get a 7.5F or something. People can then evaluate the number relative to the genre and the base quality available. Did you love Shadowbane more than other level based MMOs? Well Shadowbane got a 6F (for arguments sake as I don't know) and Darkfall gets a 7.5F. That is a lot more helpful. You know that this is an improvement for your chosen sub-genre.
Think about it. What other semi-sandboxish, FFA-PvP, conquest MMO are out there? Not many and none of AA quality. So Darkfall is practically the leader it its field regardless of its faults. How can you compare WoW polish and newb-friendliness with Darkfall? You can't because Darkfall is breaking new ground with a limited budget. Obviously polish and other finishing touches will go astray as they try to iron out the kinks in a revolutionary game. Sure there are complaints about customer service etc. Fine, but this whole booha about Darkfall and "misleading" reviews is because we are trying to grade apples in the matured meat category.
Level and FPS MMO proponents get in each others face so viciously because they hate each others sub-genres. Many WoW-lovers would not like Darkfall even if the game was smooth, had outstanding graphics, good CS etc. They would never countenance such a game getting any score remotely close to their beloved MMO, and vice verca.
I played all the way from beta up to a month ago which is much much longer than I played WoW. That lasted maybe 2 weeks before I went "wft? levels are dumb.". That does not mean WoW's score is not deserved - but that the score does not give enough information. Darkfall is innovative and deserves credit for that. Does it fail to deliver on things, sure, but needs to be in perspective that this is a sub-genre that is beginning with very few previous tried-and-tested systems and design.
The reason I am not personally going back is because there is not enough sandbox elements to the game. To heavily PvP-orientated for my taste - but I only realised that now. That is my personal choice and not Darkfall's fault. So please put sandbox/PvP in a different category.
If you want a real honest review, have 3 people review it and post their compiled reviews in one article.
Try to select someone for each slot who encompasses one group of mmo player.
The people who are even remotely interested in Darkfall do not care what someone who plays WOW thinks of the game. They want to hear from someone who loved UO and Shadowbane.
This from the review: "In fact, I just couldn't find it playable in any enjoyable way."
And yet the game garners a 6/10, which is 'acceptable'. If the reviewer finds that the game was not enjoyable in any way, that does not seem acceptable at all. I think there was a disconnect between the rating and what the reviewer said.
Bums on seats !!!! One must think of 'bums on seats' !!!!!
When the overall player rating is 6.7 one can't afford to go against the public opinion.
I read the review and i overall agree with it,even though you do have a point there if anyone tries to translate the words of the review into numbers they definitely don't translate into a "6".
Pretty bad review imo. How come you don't write a word on naval combat & different siege engines. Did you join any clan & sieged another city? Did you handle a siege engine? Did you gank anyone in their own city? Did you lose a town in a siege? Did you kill an epic monster? Did you navigate a ship? Did you sink an enemy ship? Did you build a house?
You failed to even mention some of these features who are pretty new to the genre & the ones you mentioned you failed to describe. Why didn't you ask AV to help you out with finding a clan giving you some real good gear so you could experience some of the end game & real content. Cuz let's face it, MMO gamers have no life, so there's no such thing as a casual gamer, especially here in these forums. A casual gamer will try & play sometimes a free MMO, because he doesn't want to pay monthly for a game he knows his wife won't let him play. If you base a review of a MMO on only single player content, that is a big fail & it goes against the principle of the genre, against the name itself.
One of these days I'd like to see a review of WoW that doesn't mention quests, epic monsters & the rewards you get from them.
Comments
"Darkfall is a game that seems to fall short on just about everything it has"
Yet it gets a 6.0? To me, a game that falls short in everything it has is an utter failure as a game. And potential doesn't count. An mmo has to have it at launch, not the potential of being good 1-2 years after launch. I'm long gone after that. Either the score is too high or this is a poor choice of words to sum up the game. Either way, I won't be playing it.
AFAIK D is a 5
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
I agree... Like others have said the review seems pretty accurate when you read it, I just don't know how that translates to a 6. Reading the review gives the impression that the game has some good ideas, mostly executed poorly... but somehow it's above average. My question is, how bad does a game have to be to get a 5 or below from you guys. What is the point of a rating scale that really only goes from 5 to 10? Does a game automatically get 5 points just for firing up and running?
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
AFAIK D is a 5
This is why we don't use actual letter grades. Everyone has a different scale!
Where I went to school (and what I told the writer):
10 = A+ / Perfect
9 = A / Amazing
8 = B / really good
7 = C / Average
6 = D / Mediocre
5 = F / Broken, but with redeeming qualities
2-4 = F / Broken, with fewer redeeming qualities
1 = F- / No redeeming qualities, and it doesn't really work.
Darkfall, no matter what you think of it, is not actually broken. I think it's fair to say, it works as intended.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
Same question
This is quite clever from MMORPG, they mention the pros (and mostly) cons giving a good general impression of what you can expect for your 50$'s but then give a middle of the road score so they don't alienate either spectrum of the community or goad the wrath of another bad review nerd rage from Tasos the almighty.
Its what they have been doing with the moderation of the Darkfall forum section for a long time and I think its worked out quite well for all concerned, Aventurine and their lackeys excluded of course.
When a reviewer mentions "good concepts and non standard design" as 2 of the 3 pros you know their really struggling.
Been following this thread, and had to create an account here to just express what I've played of Darkfall Online
Aventurine have expressed this and so has this review, the game is for a niche market. people who want to have open world pvp with full loot tables and it does delivery well on this. I've been playing Darkfall online since release and can see why so many people think this is a poor game but many people are basing the entire point of their argument on the graphics.
Darkfall's graphics are good, the're not awesome and not bad they are simply "ok". and I have learned a long time ago that if the graphics are good enough it isn't a hinderance to the gameplay, and graphics have to be pretty bad for me not to enjoy a game.
Gameplay is all that matters to me and Darkfall delivers, gives me the option to do what I want and have a good time.
I cant also help but notice this was a very brief review, some key points were missed out on what Darkfall offers.
- Naval Combat
- Tank combat
- Mounted Combat
- Trading
- Villages, player housing, siege warfare, large scale combat etc...
You simply cant review darkfall without spending alot of time in the game, and I'm talking a month or two. also joining an active guild is essential.
IMO Darkfall reviewers need to get involved with an allianced guild to experience the more assets as stated above darkfall has to offer. as if you are reviewing the game on it's early points you may be disillusioned.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
6 is the score mmorpg gave to the game...
If all mmorpg users would agree with the score i would cut my balls out and eat them ..full of joy
DF is the first sandbox that seems to have certain requirements before you can start having fun. Interesting way to go about it. So to say that the reviewer must do this and that first sort of proves its not really all that sandbox otherwise they could do what they want and have fun with it.
It doesn't have any requirements. If you have not played it you wont really know.
You can build a ship if you want to but it's going to take an awful lot of time on your own, their is only a certain amount of things you can do on your own before you'll need the help of other people. as with any mmo.
put simply if you want to experience the high end things in Darkfall, you dont need to grind your skills up. You just need to join an active guild within an alliance which already has access to most high end things.
Any mmo you cant do what you want, but you can do more with other people. Kind of defeats the object of an MMO if you're not grouping up.
Not suprise by the 6 coming from this site. Their review is always biased. Game sucks and they give it a 6. I cant wait for real reviewer (like Xplay) to review this game. At least they are not afraid to say it SUCKS when it does. I'm sure Darkfall review on Xplay will get a maximum of 2 out 5.
6/10 is not ACCEPTABLE. 6/10 is PASSABLE.
In my book it should be something like :
10/10 Perfect
9/10 Awesome
8/10 Very Good
7/10 Good
6/10 Passable
5/10 Bad
4/10 Very Bad
3/10 Dont Bother
2/10 Horrible
1/10 How come this was release ?
For me this Darkfall deserves a 4/10.
Yes this was all what I was thinking as I read the review. I don't see how you can play the game for 3 weeks and not have experienced the core of the game which is world PVP and territorial conquest. What about mounted combat? What about sieges? What about boats? What about all the new expansion content?
If I were reviewing EVE and didn't experience 0.0 fleet combat or low-sec piracy or any of its other sandbox gameplay I would rate it a 2/10 because it too has almost no quests, awkward controls, initimidating interface, and vast areas of seemingly empty space and copy'n'paste stations and interiors. But that wouldn't be really reviewing EVE the game, would it?
So it is with this review of Darkfall. It's as bad as those reviews of A.o.C. were where they only played up to the end of Tortage and gave it a great score. If you aren't going to experience the core features of the game you're reviewing I just don't see what the point of reviewing is.
I ask again, based on the comments of the reviewer, how that is even a 6 under your system.
Based on this scoring system, I'd say a 5 is more in-line, or yes, "F"
We gave it a six because that's what the reviewer scored it as. The guy who wrote the words applied the score.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
The review seems good, but it does make it sound far worse than a six. Havent played it myself (and wont be the more I hear) but it does seem weird that you read the review and would expect that to be a four or five (maybe). I guess there is some compromise going on here
[quote]Originally posted by MortalStrike
[quote]Originally posted by panchoe
Exactly my sentiments, Eve, Darkfall, Mortal online etc are very in depth games and some of the redeeming features are far into the game. They are easily accessible through alliances if you join one after getting used to the combat etc.
Hey everyone - This debate has gotten me thinking. Honestly, I think our score matches our text, at least as far as our guidelines go, but I also see how they fail to sync up at a glance to some people.
So, I've put out a call for ideas and feedback. Please keep the discussion limited to the topic of review scores and not argue about this particular one
See this blog post.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
im not really sure what to say.
i dont think the review went into the scales of combat enough, i dont think a games review should omit the community, or the developers who support the game.
i feel like it didnt bother to hit the high end features, or the low end features, yet stayed middle ground going "the idea is good, the execution, not so much." for most of the review.
After reading what Dana wrote as what their scores mean... i get it.
however metacritics and other sites that review using a 10 point system..... dont require you to be the worst game in existance to fall into a 4. MMorpg seems to be.
i dunno, i felt the words were fair, but the score didnt reflect the words.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I rate this very well written review 2/10
Nah, that was silly. A six or five for DF sounds about right. Apparently there ARE people in there having a good time yet it has many flaws and subpar aspects it seems. And a 6 isn't ALL too generous either, and especially not for a subscription based game.
My brand new bloggity blog.
The problem with what you wrote is the fact that the mod post above yours states that not all countries use the letter grading system yet you are artificially imposing it on your number system.
An average score using the number system would be a 5.5 since 0 is not an option. That means according to a standard interpretation of the number system, DF according to this review is ABOVE average.
I would suggest going to a 5 number system as it would better imply the quality of game better then your 10 number system.
5 - excellent
4 - good
3 - average
2 - poor
1 - broken
This would be a much more reasonable system then having 5 points in a 10 point system indicating a broken game. By that metric few if any games at all could be scored a 5 or below thus making them pointless to have in your system.
Creating new labels for the numbers will not clarify an inherently flawed system. Also please go back to standardized catagories when creating reviews so that the entire scope of a game is covered and not just choice selections that could introduce overt bias beyond the subjective nature of reviews.
It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, to be honest. Reviews, especially MMO reviews, are hard to do. Especially scores. I will note this post when we discuss how to improve them. Using your scale, Darkfall would have gotten 2.5, probably.
Thank you for considering those changes. I understand the inherent problems with reviews and this would go a long way to creating a good foundation for all of your writers. The 2.5 seems more in line with the content of the review and is much more clearly understood by most nationalities.
I don't really care about the score as it is all subjective, but accuracy and consistency are key to becoming a trusted source for information.
Agreed.
I just sent your post around as part of our discussion on this. Liking your idea. Cannot say for sure if it is practical/will work for a thousand reasons, but I do appreciate some well thought out feedback when I see it.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Sean clearly approached this review with a genuine attempt to be fair and with no agenda. Of course, any person reviewing any game can only be objective to some extent, afterall, how they personally "feel" is valid and always part of the review.
While it is certainly not necessary for one to have experience playing Ultima Online Pre-Trammel, or Darktide in AC1, to enjoy DFO, it is very clear that Sean never played either. Things that bother him about DFO are aspects of the game many of us not only enjoy, but have a deeper understanding of why they exist and therefore less concern over the result; for example Sean really dislikes losing control over his character while looting, taking one item at a time.
Sean talks about graphics and compliments World Building, but fails to provide his system specs. I don't know about you, but I fail to understand how any person can comment on graphics and not state what video card, resolution and monitor is as reference.
Sean says "how you interact with the environment feels ""STRANGE"".." That's true, but only to the extent you understand how to do it. /baffled
He tells Casual Gamers to "Avoid DFO like the Plague". I don't know if this is just Sean, or trauma from having played from the start on EU. On the NA server we have very casual gamers in our guild and we take them hunting and on PvP raids, and they have just as much fun as any one else and definately contribute.
Sean appears to be the typical MMO gamer in many respects, so to that extent the review probably has meaning and mirrors what some would experience. Unfortunately on so many levels, DFO is just not for Sean in the areas that he finds "strange", and he draws conclusions that are extreme and flat out wrong.
After all the posts, debates and reviews it is quite obvious that DFO is one of those games you simply have to try yourself to know if it's for you. For some it sucks, and for others like myself, it's the best game I've played since UO. I've met people in game and on the boards who absolutely love DFO and find the graphics awesome, and expected the reverse.
Sean makes some very good points and constructive criticism. I can only hope those reading it understand this is merely one persons opinion, and conclusions are projections based upon his personal experience alone. I can't relate to Sean's review, as my experience is quite different and far more favorable.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
FIX THE REVIEW SYSTEM
This is a complaint against the current reviewing system.
I think a 6 is fair from a PvP-MMO player's perspective - especially as this game is breaking new ground and is reviewed from the blinkered perspective of the level/themepark MMO market. Please note that I am not saying the reviewer is blinkered but that the system of grading is. He has to compare it to games such as WoW because that is how the system works.
There is definitely a fundamental flaw in game reviewing. I hate WoW because it has levels but it gets a 9 or whatever. As someone that wants to play an MMO I would think "ok great" that is a good score. However, the score is for a type of genre, or sub-genre, which is different from a game such as Darkfall. Yes, Darkfall and MMO are not in the same genre. MMO's are far to diverse to all lump into one group. At the very least a numerical score should come with a lot more specific details such as whether it is level based, FPS, quest driven, size of developer etc. Say 9L would be WoW's score - L donating its very specific sub-genre and Darkfall would get a 7.5F or something. People can then evaluate the number relative to the genre and the base quality available. Did you love Shadowbane more than other level based MMOs? Well Shadowbane got a 6F (for arguments sake as I don't know) and Darkfall gets a 7.5F. That is a lot more helpful. You know that this is an improvement for your chosen sub-genre.
Think about it. What other semi-sandboxish, FFA-PvP, conquest MMO are out there? Not many and none of AA quality. So Darkfall is practically the leader it its field regardless of its faults. How can you compare WoW polish and newb-friendliness with Darkfall? You can't because Darkfall is breaking new ground with a limited budget. Obviously polish and other finishing touches will go astray as they try to iron out the kinks in a revolutionary game. Sure there are complaints about customer service etc. Fine, but this whole booha about Darkfall and "misleading" reviews is because we are trying to grade apples in the matured meat category.
Level and FPS MMO proponents get in each others face so viciously because they hate each others sub-genres. Many WoW-lovers would not like Darkfall even if the game was smooth, had outstanding graphics, good CS etc. They would never countenance such a game getting any score remotely close to their beloved MMO, and vice verca.
I played all the way from beta up to a month ago which is much much longer than I played WoW. That lasted maybe 2 weeks before I went "wft? levels are dumb.". That does not mean WoW's score is not deserved - but that the score does not give enough information. Darkfall is innovative and deserves credit for that. Does it fail to deliver on things, sure, but needs to be in perspective that this is a sub-genre that is beginning with very few previous tried-and-tested systems and design.
The reason I am not personally going back is because there is not enough sandbox elements to the game. To heavily PvP-orientated for my taste - but I only realised that now. That is my personal choice and not Darkfall's fault. So please put sandbox/PvP in a different category.
FIX THE REVIEW SYSTEM!
If you want a real honest review, have 3 people review it and post their compiled reviews in one article.
Try to select someone for each slot who encompasses one group of mmo player.
The people who are even remotely interested in Darkfall do not care what someone who plays WOW thinks of the game. They want to hear from someone who loved UO and Shadowbane.
The Official God FAQ
Bums on seats !!!! One must think of 'bums on seats' !!!!!
When the overall player rating is 6.7 one can't afford to go against the public opinion.
I read the review and i overall agree with it,even though you do have a point there if anyone tries to translate the words of the review into numbers they definitely don't translate into a "6".
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Pretty bad review imo. How come you don't write a word on naval combat & different siege engines. Did you join any clan & sieged another city? Did you handle a siege engine? Did you gank anyone in their own city? Did you lose a town in a siege? Did you kill an epic monster? Did you navigate a ship? Did you sink an enemy ship? Did you build a house?
You failed to even mention some of these features who are pretty new to the genre & the ones you mentioned you failed to describe. Why didn't you ask AV to help you out with finding a clan giving you some real good gear so you could experience some of the end game & real content. Cuz let's face it, MMO gamers have no life, so there's no such thing as a casual gamer, especially here in these forums. A casual gamer will try & play sometimes a free MMO, because he doesn't want to pay monthly for a game he knows his wife won't let him play. If you base a review of a MMO on only single player content, that is a big fail & it goes against the principle of the genre, against the name itself.
One of these days I'd like to see a review of WoW that doesn't mention quests, epic monsters & the rewards you get from them.
A 6 is a shit score, stop complaining about the rating and just be happy it got such a crap score.
Personally a 6 is fine, the game needs tons of love.
Now rereview WAR and Lotro both are rated way too hi.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom