Originally posted by natuxatu Sorry bots are virtually if not every MMO. Using that as a vaild argument is really grasping for straws. Plus they will probably have better bot protection since it's a newer MMO and all that so yeah.. lets go on to the haters next complaint..
Focus on character development is extremely exciting. A lot of MMOs say that is the focus of their MMO but FFXIV is really going on and on about it making me believe that they are taking it to the next level which has me excited.
That mostly comes from people who haven't played FFXI, or played it to Level 5 and found out no one PvPed or something.
FFXI had powerleveling services that used to advertise years ago. You pay then a couple hundred bucks or something then they'd give you back your character with gil and levels. (like they do now in City of Heroes) You'd see people one day at 30, then a week or so later they'd be 55 or something. That never bother me (it did the purists) because it affected none of my gameplay. If anything, it was beneficial to my FFXI experience. Why?
That was one less person that was eating mobs in a group that we had to compete killing crabs with. It was also one less person camping for a rare mob spawn like Scorpion ring or something because they now were past that level. Botting only sucked when botters camped mobs or mass farmed; and as you said that's every game and no one can stop it.
But you can tell bad arguments like this because they make no sense. There is no real detrimental effect to someone botting for faster levels in FF at all because its not like they are camping you to kill you.
I dont know about you guys but the first thing that came to my mind when they talked about the leveling, or i guess actually nonleveling system they were using was Oblivion. Anyone else anyone else think so to? If so could you please expand upon this idea because right now its late at night and i am compleatly brain dead.
"The game's music is going to be composed entirely by Uematsu." Ohhhh, isn't that the guy who composed the FF7 musics??? If so, it's gonna be some awesome musics for sure!! /happy
Yeah, Uematsu has done the music for nearly all of the Final Fantasy series.... I think the only one he hasn't done is 12 (not sure though)
So yes, the fact that the dev team has managed to get him to do the music is a good reason for FF fans (myself included) to literally go into ecstasies. He's the reason Final Fantasy is famous for having unparalleled music The man is considered something of a genius.
I'd still like to see a system along the lines of the "Materia" system from FFVII. Being that the "leveling" focus is on the weapons, materia would work perfectly. Having to find the different materia, and then leveling each materia to it's max. Then choosing which ones to use in your limited weapon slots. Exploring the world to find the "rarest of the rare" materia. I think it would have worked very well in an mmo setting
He's been the default composer for every single game, including XII, though he's worked in conjunction with others on the soundtracks to certain titles as more or less a 'freelanceer'. XII was among those that included other composers.
It's not so much that the dev team 'managed' to get him back. His resumé most prominently consists of Final Fantasy titles, and in the most recent video he was very enthusiastic to contribute yet again to the series which has become almost synonymous with his name.
In my opinion, if there is anyone on this planet could be considered as being even close to as great as the likes of Beethoven and Mozart, it's Nobuo Uematsu. But outside of the gaming world, I'm not sure his music moves many people. I like to listen to Final Fantasy soundtracks independently of the games, when I'm working or whatever. The songs are very moving because of the nostalgia that is tied to them in my mind, and I love explaining these things to people, though because it's a video game they rarely understand. Still, they like the music. But if only they knew the amazing stories behind it...
The impression I got from the weapon leveling system was that instead of job levels you get weapon skill levels. So say you go to your house, you can pick between weapons, so staff Staff represents Whm, when say your staff skill is level 5 you unlock a Protect spell.
This is only a guess though
The thing that concerns me however, is that the interview makes the game seem like it will be more solo orientated than group. Kinda like how Knight of the old republic online will revolve around a story, but you have the option to group with friends. This is probably closer to what FF is, but, I really really want this game to be very group based like the previous game. There are already too many solo questing games out there.
Of course this is all just guess work But did anyone else get similar impressions?
I'd still like to see a system along the lines of the "Materia" system from FFVII. Being that the "leveling" focus is on the weapons, materia would work perfectly. Having to find the different materia, and then leveling each materia to it's max. Then choosing which ones to use in your limited weapon slots. Exploring the world to find the "rarest of the rare" materia. I think it would have worked very well in an mmo setting
I agree. I greatly enjoyed the Materia system and was disappointed that it was never used again.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'd still like to see a system along the lines of the "Materia" system from FFVII. Being that the "leveling" focus is on the weapons, materia would work perfectly. Having to find the different materia, and then leveling each materia to it's max. Then choosing which ones to use in your limited weapon slots. Exploring the world to find the "rarest of the rare" materia. I think it would have worked very well in an mmo setting
I agree. I greatly enjoyed the Materia system and was disappointed that it was never used again.
Though I did like the materia system, and it might be well-applied to a character development system that relies on weapons, I'll go ahead and point out that it's the fact that it was never used again that makes it so unique. I'll edit this is a quick second. I have something to take care of that can't be ignored...
I can't remember if it was in these forums or some other that I suggested redefining the job class system. Where some jobs like scholar are a combination of white mage and black mage - with a twist, or how corsair is both gambler and ranger, they could give these mixed jobs more definition by separating them entirely. I remember scholar being able to identify monster stats and pinpoint weaknesses, not casting white & black magic. And I'd like to see different jobs with different character development within themselves.
I think the type of job that would best reintegrate the materia system would be an alchemist and/or battlemage concept, since weapons are the main focus in either of these roles. Equipping items to weapons slots, such as keychains and pendants rather than "materia" (although some rare magic-equivalents) would be great, and could provide various bonuses to a players attacks. Kind of like the blue-magic adds job triats. But I don't think character who chose the path of a mage (whm, blm, rdm, blu) should be required to use these items, nor should players who choose to be melee be allowed to. The use of the materia system should only be availabe through these jobs, and the materia itself should be very limited in ability.
I just don't wanna see each character become clones of each other, which I did in Final Fantasy VII. Everyone had a particular combination with two slots containing Final Attack + Phoenix, basically making everyone invincible. Which was nice, but could never be applied to an MMORPG.
I just don't wanna see each character become clones of each other, which I did in Final Fantasy VII. Everyone had a particular combination with two slots containing Final Attack + Phoenix, basically making everyone invincible. Which was nice, but could never be applied to an MMORPG.
The combination of various materia abilities, and the different effects when attached to armour or weapons, made the system very fun for me. Each time a stone gained a new ability or I found a new stone, I would remove all stones and rebuild the combinations for each character. It was (prior to playing FFTactics) the most enjoyable character customization I had experienced in an RPG. Only FF Tactics (which I played later) has more fun character customization. * OH an FF Tactics would just destroy me, as I be totally obsessed with it. Wow.*
For sure, some combos would be OP for an MMO, but you can do all sorts of things to limit that - such as long cool downs or having the stones break after a certain number of uses. Lots of cool things could be done with a materia-based system. Imagine if you had to go on a long, difficult quest chain to get that UBER Materia stone (BoP and unique) which could be used only once. WHEN would you use it? Such tough strategy choices make gaming very interesting for me.
As for making characters SO changable - well, it's a different way to do things. I gather that it's not that different from FF XI's job system which lets you switch to any job for which you have previously trained. Sounds a lot like FF Tactics in that respect.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The impression I got from the weapon leveling system was that instead of job levels you get weapon skill levels. So say you go to your house, you can pick between weapons, so staff Staff represents Whm, when say your staff skill is level 5 you unlock a Protect spell. This is only a guess though The thing that concerns me however, is that the interview makes the game seem like it will be more solo orientated than group. Kinda like how Knight of the old republic online will revolve around a story, but you have the option to group with friends. This is probably closer to what FF is, but, I really really want this game to be very group based like the previous game. There are already too many solo questing games out there. Of course this is all just guess work But did anyone else get similar impressions?
Casual play doesn't imply solo play, and solo play doesen't imply casual play. People are using those terms interchangeably and I just don't think they are. They're similar, sometimes itegrated, but not identical. Anyway as for the weapon & development system, I'd hope it was a little more complicated than choosing a weapon based on its abilities. Characters should still be on at least somewhat predetermined paths, otherwise they'll be wasting valuable gil and inventory space (which will most likely be limited again at first) on several weapons. Especially for those like me who, early on, want to try everything out.
For casual / solo play? Soloing is doable already if you've got the know how. They should keep the groupiness that makes it essential to progress in XI. But the casuality can be improved upon. They added the Fields of Valor, which grants bonus EXP and field enhancements - and are still difficult to complete alone and so are more or less exploitable in parties. But what they could do is make these a series of repeatable quests. That would 1) slow down parties using the system every game day, having to return to a certain zone or home nation NPC specific to that region to complete the quest and wait to accept another (like the shop NPC's that sell goods from global areas if your country owns them), and 2) add more depth to story progression for the casual player just to give them that false sense of accomplishment. A few cutscenes, and not just text that one spams across, but little mini-sodes. I think it'll be something more like that, unless they've got something even better...
But yeah, I didn't like getting stuck on a mission because I wasn't a high enough level, then leveling until I couldn't afford gear, then needing both several levels AND expensive gear to continue missions (story). What a pain. The 'tutorial' guard could just be given a bigger role and a couple dozen more quests to get you more 'involved' in your role in the game.
All of this just killed interest for me. I want traditional medieval fantasy in a new "world", A WORLD, not a quest-driven theme park. And I am done, done, done with sci-fi creeping into fantasy MMO's.
"modern..." "advanced technology..." "questing..." "deep story..." ______________________________________________________________________________ All of this just killed interest for me. I want traditional medieval fantasy in a new "world", A WORLD, not a quest-driven theme park. And I am done, done, done with sci-fi creeping into fantasy MMO's.
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The combination of various materia abilities, and the different effects when attached to armour or weapons, made the system very fun for me. Each time a stone gained a new ability or I found a new stone, I would remove all stones and rebuild the combinations for each character. It was (prior to playing FFTactics) the most enjoyable character customization I had experienced in an RPG. Only FF Tactics (which I played later) has more fun character customization. * OH an FF Tactics would just destroy me, as I be totally obsessed with it. Wow.* For sure, some combos would be OP for an MMO, but you can do all sorts of things to limit that - such as long cool downs or having the stones break after a certain number of uses. Lots of cool things could be done with a materia-based system. Imagine if you had to go on a long, difficult quest chain to get that UBER Materia stone (BoP and unique) which could be used only once. WHEN would you use it? Such tough strategy choices make gaming very interesting for me. As for making characters SO changable - well, it's a different way to do things. I gather that it's not that different from FF XI's job system which lets you switch to any job for which you have previously trained. Sounds a lot like FF Tactics in that respect.
Materia breaking? Horrible idea, unless you die. That would be an excellent & logical death penalty. But I still don't think every character of every job should be privelaged to utilize materia. That, and inventory space would be wretched (unless they fixed this to where items worn did not take up space, and items attached to weapons were grouped or binded to the weapon). Having said that, I'd like to see it again.
In Final Fantasy VII materia was mainly magic except for Yellow (commands) and Blue (properties). The character was essentially blank except for the specific weapons they could each use. If every character could use each of these materia, it would be just like every other MMO where all anyone ever aspires to is obtaining the "endgame combination" that makes a character into a God. Just having it makes you L337. I don't see materia being used practically for everyone. Certain jobs, or certain races even, but very limited, more to the tune of blue mage spell traits, or "equip for these benefits - but not for these abilities unless you have the appropriate class."
Where traditional mages learn their magic from scrolls they'd have no use for materia, but an alchemist could add explosive properties to their weapons or a battlemage could be given perma-buffs as long as he uses that weapon with those bound materia (in fact it could even be mages & alchemists who MAKE materia) but what about a warrior who uses NO magic? Some people hate magic classes all together. They want hard, physical, blunt damage. It's part of them as much a summoner summons. If every job used a specific type of materia with different abilities, breakable on death, maybe that would be okay. But I just don't see 4-slotted weapons & armor for all, or a dark knight being able to summon Alexander, or a warrior casting ultima...
"modern..." "advanced technology..." "questing..." "deep story..." All of this just killed interest for me. I want traditional medieval fantasy in a new "world", A WORLD, not a quest-driven theme park. And I am done, done, done with sci-fi creeping into fantasy MMO's.
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
If questing and deep story kills interest, you're definitely in the wrong corner of the gaming world. Play FPS games. I mean seriously...
But I think "modern" and "technology" are being taken out of context. In the world of Final Fantasy XI, "modern" means within the current setting of the world. In Medieval times, "modern" was the use of magicks. Today's modern is not easily translated into fantasy games. I think the most technologically advanced thing to come from XIV are the flying ships. These things seem considerably maneuverable, but they're not space ships. It's not Sci-Fi. If you really want to argue Science Fiction, tapping into the hidden potential of the brain can unlock knowledge a mastery of the elements, creating magic-users. But in the real world it's not called magic, it's called kinesis. There was once a game called Gallerians...
I don't see what the objection is to Materia having limited charges. It would not have to be all Materia, just used to balance the most powerful ones.
In the system I am envisioning, there wouldn't be any classes. Your class would be the result of whatever materia you have equipped at the time. Limit the total number of stones a character could equip at one time, and they can design their own class on the fly. If your party needs a tank, equip stones that give increased threat generation, a taunt ability, and higher armour and HP. Need a a healer? Equip healing spell materia, detaunt, and MP stones.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hopefully they will also remove the tank, healer, dps crap for raid, and learn from War PQ that any class can join and have fun...
I read this as "hopefully they will remove the challenge of gameplay mechanics so everyone can run amok like retards."
Seriously? You can go into a dungeon as a party of taru whm and have all the fun you want, but the most you'll be able to do is run around screaming like munchkins, healing each other and hoping nobody dies.
I really hate to say this but there will be (obviously) some botters and macros that will enable you to level faster. After all, there are always cheaters in MMOs but if there is no experience system, the cheaters might make programs to 'level' your weapon faster. You all know this but I just wanted to point it out.
From what I remember of FF11 (been awhile since i played) there was very little Gold/Gil Spamming in chat channles and there was none to almost none, Addons to Down load (compared to other mmos these days) . But FF14 will be a new gen mmo so only time will tell.
Wow... just wow.. post by someone who obviously has no clue what they are talking about.
FFXI no gil seller spamming? are you freaking kidding me? you are lucky to not get a message from a Gil seller every 5 minutes. I am online right now and looking at my tell log i have about 5 Gil seller messages from past hour or so, so yeah.
And no addons to download? What planet are you living on? Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst if not THE worst MMO for downloading updates. You will be waiting anything fromn 5 hours to 24 hours to update before you can even play for the first time. (probably even longer now it has 2-3 download only expansions that you 'have' to download even if you have not bought them) .
Honestly, Final Fantasy XI has the worst rep of all mmos for its initial update time before you play, and you are saying it is non excistant??
I am starting to wonder if you really even played FFXI.
Here. I changed the color of what you clearly missed.
Way back in the day it wasent bad at all. It got a lot worse.
I agree. It wasn't bad at all way back. Now you get bombarded with them. It seems to happen to me each time I head into Jueno.
I don't see what the objection is to Materia having limited charges. It would not have to be all Materia, just used to balance the most powerful ones. In the system I am envisioning, there wouldn't be any classes. Your class would be the result of whatever materia you have equipped at the time. Limit the total number of stones a character could equip at one time, and they can design their own class on the fly. If your party needs a tank, equip stones that give increased threat generation, a taunt ability, and higher armour and HP. Need a a healer? Equip healing spell materia, detaunt, and MP stones.
Just go back & play FF7. They added it to PSN for $9.99. I'm not trying to be an ass, but that's basically the warp-cudgel and the teleport-cap, and all the other enchanted & enhancement items.
Take Oblivion for example. I think that's what your describing, to a point. I'm going to use that as a basis for the "classless" enchanted item users. The problem is that in order to be a good group character, you have to devote yourself toward a specific path. Without any type of class players will all become soloers. Need a tank? Well, that's everyone - and no one. Because here you have a bunch of people with no definition who only have what's enough to sustain themselves. Everyone chases the Godstone. Seems more viable for PVP. If players don't have classes, if they learn whatever they want / feel like, I don't see them using the same character and achieving "endgame" unless they follow some form of preset.
Maybe, I'll give you this one: If there are quests that tell a player what to do to become the all-powerful black mage (or any other job type) meaning they seek out these specific types of materia and they take on these quests to be strong enough to party for main story progression (as this would be character progression) and diverting from the path meant it took away from the highest level magicks one by one? Maybe they could do that. In D&D your max level is 20. If you achieve lv.20 you get massive benefits toward your dedicated role, but one level in another area of training means you can only achieve a max of 19/1. If they did this in Final Fantasy as a skill-based system, I could accept that for "classless". Materia or none. Having a certain skill enabled the use of certain materia, and unless you dedicated yourself to X path, you could not use X high-end materia?
I love all this hypothetical babble though. As long as it's not taken too seriously. God, I need more responsibility at work. At this rate I should submit an app to become a game correspondent for a few games...
The Materia system cannot function properly in a class-based game. You would have to water it down too much. You can't have 'mage' as a class when stones give anyone fire, lightning, a cold spells. If you take those away from the materia and give them to certain classes, then the Materia system is a pale shadow of what it was in FF7.
It's fine if you don't like the idea of a classless game, but it IS required for Materia to be as important as they were in FF7.
If only a few classes can use Materia, then the stones would have to have different abilities than the other class abilities.
I proposed this as a way to get a different system for an MMORPG. There are TONS of class-based games out there already.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"modern..." "advanced technology..." "questing..." "deep story..." All of this just killed interest for me. I want traditional medieval fantasy in a new "world", A WORLD, not a quest-driven theme park. And I am done, done, done with sci-fi creeping into fantasy MMO's.
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
If questing and deep story kills interest, you're definitely in the wrong corner of the gaming world. Play FPS games. I mean seriously...
But I think "modern" and "technology" are being taken out of context. In the world of Final Fantasy XI, "modern" means within the current setting of the world. In Medieval times, "modern" was the use of magicks. Today's modern is not easily translated into fantasy games. I think the most technologically advanced thing to come from XIV are the flying ships. These things seem considerably maneuverable, but they're not space ships. It's not Sci-Fi. If you really want to argue Science Fiction, tapping into the hidden potential of the brain can unlock knowledge a mastery of the elements, creating magic-users. But in the real world it's not called magic, it's called kinesis. There was once a game called Gallerians...
Well, not all questing is bad, but storyline questing where you are led by the hand on a cookie crumb trail, punctuated by stopping to listen to NPC's do some ten minute spiel is annoying and very linear in feel.
I am hoping that someone does with fantasy what the dev's of EVE did with sci-fi: create a world. (And not necessarily PVP).
I suppose my final input on the classless system is the chaos it would bring.
If anyone could do anything, maybe that WOULD be successful. But it would be chaotic. I did not like the chaos of WoW raids and even they had classification. Without defined classes, you have people doing "whatever". Final Fantasy XI is controlled. You don't have to worry about what someone else is or isn't doing, because it's their job or it isn't. You trust the healer as much as you trust the tank and the other members who do "their part". But when players don't have defined roles, how do they know "their part"? You play as THIS job because you want to advance your play style, and so that everyone can see - you're a white mage, samurai, whatever.
Now, even if characters don't have defined classes, if they could change their weapon & materia setup to suit the needs of the party, there will be endless argument over who does what. Instead of who gets the drop, it's who gets to develop certain abilities (because it's only logical that what you use in combat gets developed). This is why they need to choose definitive roles. Not everyone can be the DD or the tank. Not everyone can opt to develop or quest the same materia - or else you get clones that are innefective in group-oriented tasks. The control in XI is the organization, imposed by the game, second to job class, imposed by the players. It would be hard to find healers that have dedicated themselves to healing, because even if they can change their abilities, it's more about what they've developed. How would you know, without classification, who is more skilled at what? Maybe that healer isn't as good a healer as they could be. Or that tank is lacking in HP or DEF because he's trying to be a paladin and invested too much in white magic. But he wears heavy armor and claims he's a paladin and not a white mage.
The classless system would be in favor for customization but it would ultimately fail on dependability. Maybe there will be a game like that, maybe Bethesda will step up the the MMO challenge, but I honestly don't think it will be Square-Enix.
Hopefully they will also remove the tank, healer, dps crap for raid, and learn from War PQ that any class can join and have fun...
I read this as "hopefully they will remove the challenge of gameplay mechanics so everyone can run amok like retards."
Seriously? You can go into a dungeon as a party of taru whm and have all the fun you want, but the most you'll be able to do is run around screaming like munchkins, healing each other and hoping nobody dies.
LOL, aint you tired of spamming for hours just to find that 1 more healer? And isn't that drove players to quit FFXI in the first place?
Games evolve, its high time they come out of something better, and personally i feel PQ style is the way to go...
Is raiding with the holy trinity really skill base? Just google any fight beforehand and if you're not retard, its nothing after a few runs...
That's the group leader's job. Same deal in any other group based MMO, where you have to decide who will tank if you have two tank classes in the group. Have them suit up for the role, 'inspect' them, and choose the better mix of abilities and gear.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Comments
That mostly comes from people who haven't played FFXI, or played it to Level 5 and found out no one PvPed or something.
FFXI had powerleveling services that used to advertise years ago. You pay then a couple hundred bucks or something then they'd give you back your character with gil and levels. (like they do now in City of Heroes) You'd see people one day at 30, then a week or so later they'd be 55 or something. That never bother me (it did the purists) because it affected none of my gameplay. If anything, it was beneficial to my FFXI experience. Why?
That was one less person that was eating mobs in a group that we had to compete killing crabs with. It was also one less person camping for a rare mob spawn like Scorpion ring or something because they now were past that level. Botting only sucked when botters camped mobs or mass farmed; and as you said that's every game and no one can stop it.
But you can tell bad arguments like this because they make no sense. There is no real detrimental effect to someone botting for faster levels in FF at all because its not like they are camping you to kill you.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I dont know about you guys but the first thing that came to my mind when they talked about the leveling, or i guess actually nonleveling system they were using was Oblivion. Anyone else anyone else think so to? If so could you please expand upon this idea because right now its late at night and i am compleatly brain dead.
"The game's music is going to be composed entirely by Uematsu."
Ohhhh, isn't that the guy who composed the FF7 musics??? If so, it's gonna be some awesome musics for sure!! /happy
Now playing : FFXIV
Waiting on : TBD
Best MMORPGs played : EQ, FFXI
Yeah, Uematsu has done the music for nearly all of the Final Fantasy series.... I think the only one he hasn't done is 12 (not sure though)
So yes, the fact that the dev team has managed to get him to do the music is a good reason for FF fans (myself included) to literally go into ecstasies. He's the reason Final Fantasy is famous for having unparalleled music The man is considered something of a genius.
I'd still like to see a system along the lines of the "Materia" system from FFVII. Being that the "leveling" focus is on the weapons, materia would work perfectly. Having to find the different materia, and then leveling each materia to it's max. Then choosing which ones to use in your limited weapon slots. Exploring the world to find the "rarest of the rare" materia. I think it would have worked very well in an mmo setting
He's been the default composer for every single game, including XII, though he's worked in conjunction with others on the soundtracks to certain titles as more or less a 'freelanceer'. XII was among those that included other composers.
It's not so much that the dev team 'managed' to get him back. His resumé most prominently consists of Final Fantasy titles, and in the most recent video he was very enthusiastic to contribute yet again to the series which has become almost synonymous with his name.
In my opinion, if there is anyone on this planet could be considered as being even close to as great as the likes of Beethoven and Mozart, it's Nobuo Uematsu. But outside of the gaming world, I'm not sure his music moves many people. I like to listen to Final Fantasy soundtracks independently of the games, when I'm working or whatever. The songs are very moving because of the nostalgia that is tied to them in my mind, and I love explaining these things to people, though because it's a video game they rarely understand. Still, they like the music. But if only they knew the amazing stories behind it...
Abraxas [365]
The impression I got from the weapon leveling system was that instead of job levels you get weapon skill levels. So say you go to your house, you can pick between weapons, so staff Staff represents Whm, when say your staff skill is level 5 you unlock a Protect spell.
This is only a guess though
The thing that concerns me however, is that the interview makes the game seem like it will be more solo orientated than group. Kinda like how Knight of the old republic online will revolve around a story, but you have the option to group with friends. This is probably closer to what FF is, but, I really really want this game to be very group based like the previous game. There are already too many solo questing games out there.
Of course this is all just guess work
But did anyone else get similar impressions?
I agree. I greatly enjoyed the Materia system and was disappointed that it was never used again.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree. I greatly enjoyed the Materia system and was disappointed that it was never used again.
Though I did like the materia system, and it might be well-applied to a character development system that relies on weapons, I'll go ahead and point out that it's the fact that it was never used again that makes it so unique. I'll edit this is a quick second. I have something to take care of that can't be ignored...
I can't remember if it was in these forums or some other that I suggested redefining the job class system. Where some jobs like scholar are a combination of white mage and black mage - with a twist, or how corsair is both gambler and ranger, they could give these mixed jobs more definition by separating them entirely. I remember scholar being able to identify monster stats and pinpoint weaknesses, not casting white & black magic. And I'd like to see different jobs with different character development within themselves.
I think the type of job that would best reintegrate the materia system would be an alchemist and/or battlemage concept, since weapons are the main focus in either of these roles. Equipping items to weapons slots, such as keychains and pendants rather than "materia" (although some rare magic-equivalents) would be great, and could provide various bonuses to a players attacks. Kind of like the blue-magic adds job triats. But I don't think character who chose the path of a mage (whm, blm, rdm, blu) should be required to use these items, nor should players who choose to be melee be allowed to. The use of the materia system should only be availabe through these jobs, and the materia itself should be very limited in ability.
I just don't wanna see each character become clones of each other, which I did in Final Fantasy VII. Everyone had a particular combination with two slots containing Final Attack + Phoenix, basically making everyone invincible. Which was nice, but could never be applied to an MMORPG.
Abraxas [365]
The combination of various materia abilities, and the different effects when attached to armour or weapons, made the system very fun for me. Each time a stone gained a new ability or I found a new stone, I would remove all stones and rebuild the combinations for each character. It was (prior to playing FFTactics) the most enjoyable character customization I had experienced in an RPG. Only FF Tactics (which I played later) has more fun character customization. * OH an FF Tactics would just destroy me, as I be totally obsessed with it. Wow.*
For sure, some combos would be OP for an MMO, but you can do all sorts of things to limit that - such as long cool downs or having the stones break after a certain number of uses. Lots of cool things could be done with a materia-based system. Imagine if you had to go on a long, difficult quest chain to get that UBER Materia stone (BoP and unique) which could be used only once. WHEN would you use it? Such tough strategy choices make gaming very interesting for me.
As for making characters SO changable - well, it's a different way to do things. I gather that it's not that different from FF XI's job system which lets you switch to any job for which you have previously trained. Sounds a lot like FF Tactics in that respect.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Casual play doesn't imply solo play, and solo play doesen't imply casual play. People are using those terms interchangeably and I just don't think they are. They're similar, sometimes itegrated, but not identical. Anyway as for the weapon & development system, I'd hope it was a little more complicated than choosing a weapon based on its abilities. Characters should still be on at least somewhat predetermined paths, otherwise they'll be wasting valuable gil and inventory space (which will most likely be limited again at first) on several weapons. Especially for those like me who, early on, want to try everything out.
For casual / solo play? Soloing is doable already if you've got the know how. They should keep the groupiness that makes it essential to progress in XI. But the casuality can be improved upon. They added the Fields of Valor, which grants bonus EXP and field enhancements - and are still difficult to complete alone and so are more or less exploitable in parties. But what they could do is make these a series of repeatable quests. That would 1) slow down parties using the system every game day, having to return to a certain zone or home nation NPC specific to that region to complete the quest and wait to accept another (like the shop NPC's that sell goods from global areas if your country owns them), and 2) add more depth to story progression for the casual player just to give them that false sense of accomplishment. A few cutscenes, and not just text that one spams across, but little mini-sodes. I think it'll be something more like that, unless they've got something even better...
But yeah, I didn't like getting stuck on a mission because I wasn't a high enough level, then leveling until I couldn't afford gear, then needing both several levels AND expensive gear to continue missions (story). What a pain. The 'tutorial' guard could just be given a bigger role and a couple dozen more quests to get you more 'involved' in your role in the game.
Abraxas [365]
"modern..."
"advanced technology..."
"questing..."
"deep story..."
______________________________________________________________________________
All of this just killed interest for me. I want traditional medieval fantasy in a new "world", A WORLD, not a quest-driven theme park. And I am done, done, done with sci-fi creeping into fantasy MMO's.
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Materia breaking? Horrible idea, unless you die. That would be an excellent & logical death penalty. But I still don't think every character of every job should be privelaged to utilize materia. That, and inventory space would be wretched (unless they fixed this to where items worn did not take up space, and items attached to weapons were grouped or binded to the weapon). Having said that, I'd like to see it again.
In Final Fantasy VII materia was mainly magic except for Yellow (commands) and Blue (properties). The character was essentially blank except for the specific weapons they could each use. If every character could use each of these materia, it would be just like every other MMO where all anyone ever aspires to is obtaining the "endgame combination" that makes a character into a God. Just having it makes you L337. I don't see materia being used practically for everyone. Certain jobs, or certain races even, but very limited, more to the tune of blue mage spell traits, or "equip for these benefits - but not for these abilities unless you have the appropriate class."
Where traditional mages learn their magic from scrolls they'd have no use for materia, but an alchemist could add explosive properties to their weapons or a battlemage could be given perma-buffs as long as he uses that weapon with those bound materia (in fact it could even be mages & alchemists who MAKE materia) but what about a warrior who uses NO magic? Some people hate magic classes all together. They want hard, physical, blunt damage. It's part of them as much a summoner summons. If every job used a specific type of materia with different abilities, breakable on death, maybe that would be okay. But I just don't see 4-slotted weapons & armor for all, or a dark knight being able to summon Alexander, or a warrior casting ultima...
Abraxas [365]
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
If questing and deep story kills interest, you're definitely in the wrong corner of the gaming world. Play FPS games. I mean seriously...
But I think "modern" and "technology" are being taken out of context. In the world of Final Fantasy XI, "modern" means within the current setting of the world. In Medieval times, "modern" was the use of magicks. Today's modern is not easily translated into fantasy games. I think the most technologically advanced thing to come from XIV are the flying ships. These things seem considerably maneuverable, but they're not space ships. It's not Sci-Fi. If you really want to argue Science Fiction, tapping into the hidden potential of the brain can unlock knowledge a mastery of the elements, creating magic-users. But in the real world it's not called magic, it's called kinesis. There was once a game called Gallerians...
Abraxas [365]
I don't see what the objection is to Materia having limited charges. It would not have to be all Materia, just used to balance the most powerful ones.
In the system I am envisioning, there wouldn't be any classes. Your class would be the result of whatever materia you have equipped at the time. Limit the total number of stones a character could equip at one time, and they can design their own class on the fly. If your party needs a tank, equip stones that give increased threat generation, a taunt ability, and higher armour and HP. Need a a healer? Equip healing spell materia, detaunt, and MP stones.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hopefully they will also remove the tank, healer, dps crap for raid, and learn from War PQ that any class can join and have fun...
RIP Orc Choppa
I read this as "hopefully they will remove the challenge of gameplay mechanics so everyone can run amok like retards."
Seriously? You can go into a dungeon as a party of taru whm and have all the fun you want, but the most you'll be able to do is run around screaming like munchkins, healing each other and hoping nobody dies.
Abraxas [365]
From what I remember of FF11 (been awhile since i played) there was very little Gold/Gil Spamming in chat channles and there was none to almost none, Addons to Down load (compared to other mmos these days) . But FF14 will be a new gen mmo so only time will tell.
Wow... just wow.. post by someone who obviously has no clue what they are talking about.
FFXI no gil seller spamming? are you freaking kidding me? you are lucky to not get a message from a Gil seller every 5 minutes. I am online right now and looking at my tell log i have about 5 Gil seller messages from past hour or so, so yeah.
And no addons to download? What planet are you living on? Final Fantasy XI is one of the worst if not THE worst MMO for downloading updates. You will be waiting anything fromn 5 hours to 24 hours to update before you can even play for the first time. (probably even longer now it has 2-3 download only expansions that you 'have' to download even if you have not bought them) .
Honestly, Final Fantasy XI has the worst rep of all mmos for its initial update time before you play, and you are saying it is non excistant??
I am starting to wonder if you really even played FFXI.
Here. I changed the color of what you clearly missed.
Way back in the day it wasent bad at all. It got a lot worse.
I agree. It wasn't bad at all way back. Now you get bombarded with them. It seems to happen to me each time I head into Jueno.
Just go back & play FF7. They added it to PSN for $9.99. I'm not trying to be an ass, but that's basically the warp-cudgel and the teleport-cap, and all the other enchanted & enhancement items.
Take Oblivion for example. I think that's what your describing, to a point. I'm going to use that as a basis for the "classless" enchanted item users. The problem is that in order to be a good group character, you have to devote yourself toward a specific path. Without any type of class players will all become soloers. Need a tank? Well, that's everyone - and no one. Because here you have a bunch of people with no definition who only have what's enough to sustain themselves. Everyone chases the Godstone. Seems more viable for PVP. If players don't have classes, if they learn whatever they want / feel like, I don't see them using the same character and achieving "endgame" unless they follow some form of preset.
Maybe, I'll give you this one: If there are quests that tell a player what to do to become the all-powerful black mage (or any other job type) meaning they seek out these specific types of materia and they take on these quests to be strong enough to party for main story progression (as this would be character progression) and diverting from the path meant it took away from the highest level magicks one by one? Maybe they could do that. In D&D your max level is 20. If you achieve lv.20 you get massive benefits toward your dedicated role, but one level in another area of training means you can only achieve a max of 19/1. If they did this in Final Fantasy as a skill-based system, I could accept that for "classless". Materia or none. Having a certain skill enabled the use of certain materia, and unless you dedicated yourself to X path, you could not use X high-end materia?
I love all this hypothetical babble though. As long as it's not taken too seriously. God, I need more responsibility at work. At this rate I should submit an app to become a game correspondent for a few games...
Abraxas [365]
The Materia system cannot function properly in a class-based game. You would have to water it down too much. You can't have 'mage' as a class when stones give anyone fire, lightning, a cold spells. If you take those away from the materia and give them to certain classes, then the Materia system is a pale shadow of what it was in FF7.
It's fine if you don't like the idea of a classless game, but it IS required for Materia to be as important as they were in FF7.
If only a few classes can use Materia, then the stones would have to have different abilities than the other class abilities.
I proposed this as a way to get a different system for an MMORPG. There are TONS of class-based games out there already.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The combination of technology and magic is a turn-off for me, as well. It's standard for FF, though, so it's something I have to accept for the sake of playing those games. I would prefer it not be in the games (I don't even like guns being in WoW and I HATE those motorcycles and tanks that they have added), but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
BTW, quests are not what make an MMORPG a theme-park. It's mini-games and instanced content.
If questing and deep story kills interest, you're definitely in the wrong corner of the gaming world. Play FPS games. I mean seriously...
But I think "modern" and "technology" are being taken out of context. In the world of Final Fantasy XI, "modern" means within the current setting of the world. In Medieval times, "modern" was the use of magicks. Today's modern is not easily translated into fantasy games. I think the most technologically advanced thing to come from XIV are the flying ships. These things seem considerably maneuverable, but they're not space ships. It's not Sci-Fi. If you really want to argue Science Fiction, tapping into the hidden potential of the brain can unlock knowledge a mastery of the elements, creating magic-users. But in the real world it's not called magic, it's called kinesis. There was once a game called Gallerians...
Well, not all questing is bad, but storyline questing where you are led by the hand on a cookie crumb trail, punctuated by stopping to listen to NPC's do some ten minute spiel is annoying and very linear in feel.
I am hoping that someone does with fantasy what the dev's of EVE did with sci-fi: create a world. (And not necessarily PVP).
I suppose my final input on the classless system is the chaos it would bring.
If anyone could do anything, maybe that WOULD be successful. But it would be chaotic. I did not like the chaos of WoW raids and even they had classification. Without defined classes, you have people doing "whatever". Final Fantasy XI is controlled. You don't have to worry about what someone else is or isn't doing, because it's their job or it isn't. You trust the healer as much as you trust the tank and the other members who do "their part". But when players don't have defined roles, how do they know "their part"? You play as THIS job because you want to advance your play style, and so that everyone can see - you're a white mage, samurai, whatever.
Now, even if characters don't have defined classes, if they could change their weapon & materia setup to suit the needs of the party, there will be endless argument over who does what. Instead of who gets the drop, it's who gets to develop certain abilities (because it's only logical that what you use in combat gets developed). This is why they need to choose definitive roles. Not everyone can be the DD or the tank. Not everyone can opt to develop or quest the same materia - or else you get clones that are innefective in group-oriented tasks. The control in XI is the organization, imposed by the game, second to job class, imposed by the players. It would be hard to find healers that have dedicated themselves to healing, because even if they can change their abilities, it's more about what they've developed. How would you know, without classification, who is more skilled at what? Maybe that healer isn't as good a healer as they could be. Or that tank is lacking in HP or DEF because he's trying to be a paladin and invested too much in white magic. But he wears heavy armor and claims he's a paladin and not a white mage.
The classless system would be in favor for customization but it would ultimately fail on dependability. Maybe there will be a game like that, maybe Bethesda will step up the the MMO challenge, but I honestly don't think it will be Square-Enix.
Abraxas [365]
I read this as "hopefully they will remove the challenge of gameplay mechanics so everyone can run amok like retards."
Seriously? You can go into a dungeon as a party of taru whm and have all the fun you want, but the most you'll be able to do is run around screaming like munchkins, healing each other and hoping nobody dies.
LOL, aint you tired of spamming for hours just to find that 1 more healer? And isn't that drove players to quit FFXI in the first place?
Games evolve, its high time they come out of something better, and personally i feel PQ style is the way to go...
Is raiding with the holy trinity really skill base? Just google any fight beforehand and if you're not retard, its nothing after a few runs...
RIP Orc Choppa
Regarding designation of roles:
That's the group leader's job. Same deal in any other group based MMO, where you have to decide who will tank if you have two tank classes in the group. Have them suit up for the role, 'inspect' them, and choose the better mix of abilities and gear.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2