LOL, aint you tired of spamming for hours just to find that 1 more healer? And isn't that drove players to quit FFXI in the first place? Games evolve, its high time they come out of something better, and personally i feel PQ style is the way to go... Is raiding with the holy trinity really skill base? Just google any fight beforehand and if you're not retard, its nothing after a few runs...
Honestly I've never spammed to find more healers. XI isn't like that. You use the syntax
/sea all whm taru 30-
that brings up every white mage taru lv.30-75 currently online. If you want to see ALL white mages that are online, you use
/sea all whm
If you're just looking for those who are LFP?
/sea all whm inv
Why spam for healers? If you're depending on someone to sympathize and change THEIR job for the sake of your party, why not be the healer yourself? Or ask one of your currently members? Or find a way to improvise. That's the role of the leader, to be knowledgable enough not just to look for specific members, but to know what will make the party work. I've been in parties without white mages (dnc, rdm, sch) that carried on just fine.
Regarding designation of roles: That's the group leader's job. Same deal in any other group based MMO, where you have to decide who will tank if you have two tank classes in the group. Have them suit up for the role, 'inspect' them, and choose the better mix of abilities and gear.
Still classifying. So what makes a tank? Having heavy armor doesn't necessarily mean you're capable of using it effectively. Are you going to spend 5-10 minutes examining each member's skill tree? Not only are you unsure of who you're inspecting, but they have to "suit up" before being inspected. That's a lot of time wasted already, especially if they were asked to change to suit the party if there was already a more suitable member, and especially if you were already at the combat location, at which point most would give up and start soloing with their invite flag on.
"Call me when y'all get it together."
"Are you ready?"
"I'm sorry, I already got another invite."
Wash. Rinse. Repeat. I just don't see it happening...
Still classifying. So what makes a tank? Having heavy armor doesn't necessarily mean you're capable of using it effectively. Are you going to spend 5-10 minutes examining each member's skill tree? Not only are you unsure of who you're inspecting, but they have to "suit up" before being inspected. That's a lot of time wasted already, especially if they were asked to change to suit the party if there was already a more suitable member, and especially if you were already at the combat location, at which point most would give up and start soloing with their invite flag on. "Call me when y'all get it together." "Are you ready?" "I'm sorry, I already got another invite." Wash. Rinse. Repeat. I just don't see it happening...
You're just arguing to argue now.
No problem you have described is prevented with a class-based system. Asking for a tank of a certain level range does not mean you will get players who are sufficiently geared or who know how to play their class. The former will still require suiting up and inspection. The latter is still a shot in the dark, unless a party member knows the prospect in question.
I'm done with this thread.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The WAR PQ system still requires healing and tanking. To take on the final boss in the last stage, usually a very difficult hero requires at least one tank to soak up his damage and one healer if not more to keep him up. What WAR does well, in my opinion, and this is only with the classes, is makes healers also do some sweet damage, giving them alot more things to do then sit in the back spamming heals and nothing else. At least they get to do damage as well.
So still, you will always have some type of role to play in a group, otherwise why have a group? just for sheer numbers? that's pretty simpleminded to me and sheer numbers don't always win. Look at 300.
Hopefully they will also remove the tank, healer, dps crap for raid, and learn from War PQ that any class can join and have fun...
Well I played Ultima Online for 3 years (1999-2002), it was my first mmorpg.
UO has no levels, it is a skill based MMORPG.
You had in total 700 skill points, every skill could max at 100, so you could have 7 skills at max. Or you could have more skills but not at max skill points. (well when I played)
There were no healer tank dps stuff, and I must say, I prefer the Healer tank dps idea. Each party member playing a role is just so much more fun, at least for me.
In UO I played with other people sometimes. But everyone is just doing their stuff, no group feeling at all. They later had also a thing that had the same idea as PQ in WAR. (Actually they had the PQ idea long before WAR)
I like PQ idea, but it shouldn't be PQ only. I think they should have many different kind of quests.
Just like I love instances, if it is for a story quest, but for the rest it should be avoided, because it does take away from the MMO feeling.
I wish the interview said more about character customization. That was the thing what bothered me a lot in FFXI. In an MMORPG I want to have my own identity. (At least more then what you had in FFXI)
Some MMORPGs have to much sliders and stuff. I prefer a lot of hairstyles, and hair colors, and clothing / armor, that can be dyed.
I guess they go for skill based, I wonder how they will do it. I liked UO in this, you could make any combination.
Let say you just have all those skills like Evasion, Parry, Sword, Axe, Shield, White magic, Black magic, and all other skills you had in FFXI, but you could make your own selection what skills you want to use.
Give a max amount of skill points or skills, and let the player do the rest.
Maybe some combination can give abilities. Like White magic + Shield + Sword gives Paladin special abilities.
The interview said that weapons were important in this game, this make me think it will be like FFIX, or FFX-2. That you can learn skills from weapons.
I don't really like the idea of weapons being that important, I hope you aren't forced to use weapons. I like Healer and mages a lot, but I dislike it to use weapons with them.
I hope more info comes out soon, so that we can have a better idea what to expect. Whatever it is I will try it out, I loved FFXI, and I am still playing it.
One thing I would like to remind everyone is that SE announced that they did like the job system, but in an attempt to make it less rigid, people grow by character growth. This does not mean they will do away with the job system, but they are going to make alot of changes to it.
I hope it will happen like this. I decide that I wish to create a white mage-like character, so I focus on skills in that sector. As a result, since I'm so dedicated to the white mage "role," the game rewards me by allowing me to be able to unlock the most powerful white magic type spells. In this example, I get the ability to unlock Curaja (the strongest group healing magic spell), Full Cure (completely cure one person's health), and Holy (a holy element attack spell, it's typically a little stronger than elemental spells depending on the resistances of your target). If you weren't dedicated on working vastly on the white mage, you would never be able to even unlock these spells. However, I also decided to work on a warrior type class. In this example, I decide to work on a Knight class (one of my personal favorites from FF Tactics). While I didn't work on it as vastly as the white mage abilities, I do get the Knight abilities up to a good "level" of growth.
Now, the game mechanics notices that I worked greatly on the White Mage abilities, as well as some of the Knight abilities. As my character continues to "grow," eventually something cool happens. The game, realizing that I worked on knight and white mage roles, opens up a new skill area. I can now work on the Holy Knight abilities (this was my second favorite class from FF Tactics). This opens me up to some powerful holy-type spells that deal vast damage (especially to the undead in this example, not sure if this applied to FF Tactics, been a while since I played it on my PSP). So now I can function as a tanker that can whip out decently powerful holy-type spells, and do some decent healing (but since I equip a sword and shield in this case, my white magic is slightly weaker than before and I can't use certain white mage spells anymore). It doesn't make me vastly more powerful than anyone else, but my chosen abilities from certain "roles" unlocked a "role" based on the growth.
I do like where SE is going with the whole "weapons help determine your role" thought. In this example, I am now a character with abilities from the Knight, White Mage, and Holy Knight. I decided to equip heavy armor, a sword and a shield. But, thanks to unlocking certain passives from the Holy Knight, my Holy Knight abilities and White Mage abilities are stronger than before, so I can deal decent magic damage/healing as a tanker, and a heavy armor wearing soldier with a shield and sword in hand is hard to kill. However, I eventually get a little bored and decide to start being more magic-oriented. I still heavy armor for tanker defense, but I now equip a staff and unequip my sword and shield. As a result, I can no longer use the Holy Knight abilities since I am not using a sword and shield. However, now my magic power is further advanced, so my White Mage abilities become powerful and I can use all white magic abilities again. Since I am wearing heavy armor, my magic power isn't as fully amped as they could be, but it's still decently powerful enough.
I would love FF XIV like this. It rewards people that focuses on certain abilities for a "determined role," yet you can use different weapons, equipment, and abilities, and they determine what you are. I could be a Holy Knight character, who is a powerful tanker (not as strong as a regular Knight in terms of tanker aspects) and uses Holy-element spells to deal damage, and having worked on previous Knight and White Mage abilities, I can use them as well. However, I'm not restricted to these abilities alone. I could decide to then wear equipment and be a Black Mage-like character to use powerful elemental spells if I wanted and deal decent damage (but at this point I would be a severely weak "Black Mage" compared to someone else who worked on Black Mage abilities this whole time). This would also discourage people from being "jack of all trades" builds which would damage group aspects (because then no one has a true determined role, which could lead to chaos in group play). Why do a little bit of everything, when you could do certain roles you like, make them awesome, which could potentially lead to new and powerful abilities from a completely different "role?"
Of course, I would like to also state that you can't really just use any equipment with whatever abilities and be awesome. If I worked solely on Black Mage and White Mage abilities and wear mage robe, then I would be pathetic at dealing damage with a tanker-based weapon like a battleaxe for example. Whatever abilities you work on and whatever equipment you wear would help determine your weapon's potential. So, I then switch to heavy armor and apply whatever Knight abilities I have, and then my battleaxe would become decent (even if I didn't really work on Knight, but remember you wouldn't be as good as a true "Knight" role).
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
Hmmm...you do have a good point there. The character development system I have created doesn't really encourage switching roles freely like FF XI had. My idea could very well alienate the original FF XI fanbase, something I have been fighting all this time.
I tell you what. I shall have a post soon that expands on my character development idea. One that allows you to freely switch "roles," but doesn't encourage people to continuously spawn "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
Hmmm...you do have a good point there. The character development system I have created doesn't really encourage switching roles freely like FF XI had. My idea could very well alienate the original FF XI fanbase, something I have been fighting all this time.
I tell you what. I shall have a post soon that expands on my character development idea. One that allows you to freely switch "roles," but doesn't encourage people to continuously spawn "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
I've got it! I know how my character development idea could be expanded to allow free choice of class, yet encourage people to stick to particular classes to avoid "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
As you advance on in growth with classes, all the other classes (even ones you don't really work on at all) would also steadily grow. However, they would be powerful as to the point of regularity. The trick comes when someone works on a particular class area for a while, and as a result, starts getting spells, abilities and passives for their hard work. I have a fun example to show this:
An experienced black mage with several abilities gained through hard work meets a person who has equal "growth" (in other words, would've been the same level as the experienced black mage if there was a level system in the game) but has never worked on black mage before.
Experienced (E) black mage: Hey, weren't you usually an Arcane Mage? Why are you equipping black mage abilities and equipment?
Unexperienced (UE) black mage: I felt like being a black mage today. Hey, check this out, I haven't done black mage once, and I already have Firaga, Thundaga, and Blizzarga, how awesome is that? I'm almost as powerful as you, and I didn't need to work one year at all!
E Black Mage: Hmmm....ok then. Show me your Thundga spell on that mob of 3 enemies.
(UE Black Mage kills them in one cast)
UE Black Mage: Awesome! Makes you feel weird for being that powerful with no work, eh?
E Black Mage: Hmm.....
(E Black Mage casts Thunderja, the strongest lightning-element spell that could only be learned through experience and growth, and obliterates a mob of 7)
UE Black Mage: How did you...what was that?
E Black Mage: Thunderja. You don't see it inside your skill chain because while I worked one year on this class mostly, you did Arcane Mage abilities. Also, I unlocked passives on my Black Mage role through growth, ones you probably don't have right now.
UE Black Mage: So in other words, even though I have many powerful abilities and was able to be a black mage during this time against strong enemies, I would've been more powerful if I had worked on Black Mage before?
E Black Mage: Correct. You see, I never worked on Arcane Magic abilities, but I have alot of powerful ones. Yet, I have no passives to increase its potential because I never worked on Arcane Magic abilities, and I don't have the Invert or Bubble spells like you do.
Basically, as you grow, you can still technically be whatever you want. A person that has grown quite a bit, yet never worked on Black Mage abilities, would be powerful, but nowhere near as powerful as someone who has grown just as much as first said person but worked on Black Mage abilities, thus having access to more. Also, certain "roles," like the Holy Knight or Dark Knight, would only attainable when you work on certain roles. Therefore, through hard work, you would get access to more abilities from other roles, but still technically have good abilities from other "roles" were you to want to play a different style.
Of course, balancing the spells you can have as you grow but never work on it's "role" would be tricky for SE. And, you don't get these abilities immediately, they will come later. The E Black Mage got his Thundaga, Firaga and Blizzarga spells in only 6 months, while the UE Black Mage got his 1 year later because he never focused on Black Mage abilities. Also, the E Black Mage has two passives, one that reduces mana consumption from black mage abilities and one that grants him extra damage with black mage abilities. The UE Black Mage does not have any of these passives, he never worked on the role.
But can you work on the BLM role, if u choose to in the future? That is the question.
Not whether you can use all the spells and abilities at once, but, when you equip the BLM specific weapons and "become" blm, can u then spend some time leveling that so you can be proficient in many "jobs" .... that was possible in FF11. Truly proficient in many jobs, you just had to choose to be that job
Galka: Roegadyn (NA) ????? Rugadein (JP) (pronounced "Roo ga deen")
Elvaan: Elzen
Mithra: Miqo'te Job System:
There are four categories for now: Warriors, Magus, Crafters and Hunters/Fielders. In each category, there are different jobs: Warrior: Swordsman, Archer
Magus: Enchanter, Sorcerer
Crafter: Smith, Cook
Gatherer: Gardener, Fisher
What this means for hybrid classes such as Red Mage, no idea.
That could work in my example's way. The difference is that to be a "black mage," I would guess that you have to work on sorcerer abilities. It also could mean that you could unlock different abilities from any of those roles and mash them together, although it would be far more rewarding to have at least one "main" role.
I would guess that if I wanted to create a "holy knight" role, I would have to work on Swordsman (for the knight part) and white magic types spells and other support magics. If it worked this way, I would be a Swordsman who could cast healing magic and other various support magics (like protect or bubble for example), as well as throw Holy-type magic at my opponents to hurt them.
However, one thing I've read is that the weapon equipped completely determines what your role would be. So, if it were the case that equipping a sword made me unable to use magic, well, I take back what I said earlier about weapons helping determine your role being awesome, it would restrict my choices and I would be unable to create my Holy Knight role.
I just wanted to point out that there seemed to be a distinct definition/usage of the terms role and job system. The Job system is your class, Swordsman, Sorcerer, ect. Your role however isn't as defined. Do they mean tank/healer/dps/cc? If thats the case then could it be that perhaps the weapon you use determines the kind of skills (Growth) you get? For example: A Sorcerer equips a sword and shield, and the spells he learns tend to be more defensive and aggro generating to augment this weaponstyle. A Sorcerer job playing the tank role.
Could be interesting. Most definatley has me intrigued.
I just want to be able to change my mind after a year of being a sorceror and then decide to be a knight, and because of my time as a sorceror its a litle easier for me to level/learn knight abilities. Then I want to be able to choose one or the other in end game... similar to the choice your left with years after playing FF11...
Originally posted by RamenThief7 So, if it were the case that equipping a sword made me unable to use magic, well, I take back what I said earlier about weapons helping determine your role being awesome, it would restrict my choices and I would be unable to create my Holy Knight role.
I'm guessing you'd probably quest for a holy sword with properties that opened up certain teirs of white magic to the sense of Final Fantasy XI's "advanced" jobs. Sounds more or less like two different systems with the same objective.
From my experiences in Final Fantasy XI, I'll most likely be playing as a Hyuran. Their need for freedom, lack of unity, and varying culture describes this multiracial nomadic lone wolf like nothing ever before. And I'll probably stick to one set path at first, rather than trying to do everything. I never got to Lv.75 of completed any of that endgame stuff in Final Fantasy XI because I tried doing it all. Of course, there's something to be said for having every job unlocked, past lv.20, but NO 75's? I'll either be a crafter because I can't stand not having money - or stick to the dedicated path of the sorcerer, or whatever the case would be for elemental magical damage.
Still, as indecisive as I am, that's all subject to change with each new announcement.
Originally posted by RamenThief7 So, if it were the case that equipping a sword made me unable to use magic, well, I take back what I said earlier about weapons helping determine your role being awesome, it would restrict my choices and I would be unable to create my Holy Knight role.
I'm guessing you'd probably quest for a holy sword with properties that opened up certain teirs of white magic to the sense of Final Fantasy XI's "advanced" jobs. Sounds more or less like two different systems with the same objective.
From my experiences in Final Fantasy XI, I'll most likely be playing as a Hyuran. Their need for freedom, lack of unity, and varying culture describes this multiracial nomadic lone wolf like nothing ever before. And I'll probably stick to one set path at first, rather than trying to do everything. I never got to Lv.75 of completed any of that endgame stuff in Final Fantasy XI because I tried doing it all. Of course, there's something to be said for having every job unlocked, past lv.20, but NO 75's? I'll either be a crafter because I can't stand not having money - or stick to the dedicated path of the sorcerer, or whatever the case would be for elemental magical damage.
Still, as indecisive as I am, that's all subject to change with each new announcement.
I would either be:
a) Holy Knight
b) White Mage (whatever you work on to be this role, since the enchanter seems like where I get to be this role)
c) Ninja
Of course, I would work on Blacksmith with all of these options.
Not sure what race I would be.
Edit Part:
P.S. Did you like the idea I had on my character development system that would feel similar to FF XI? I created a post explaining how to go about doing that a while ago.
P.S. Did you like the idea I had on my character development system that would feel similar to FF XI? I created a post explaining how to go about doing that a while ago.
At least until more races are announced, if there are any (it seems like a mistake for there not to be) I'm still juggling between Hyuran & Elzen. My race right now is an Elvaan because I'm taller & slender..er - I have this hangup about my character having to look like me. Definitely black mage though. Unless they announce summoner.
The information we've been given sound pretty innovative, but it's still the core, the basics, so I'm wondering what's to come for roles like summoner and their celestial entities... I'm horribly impatient.
I read your description and it was great! It sounds like a system I could fall in love with; somewhat reminiscent of D&D, where the best skills come to those who've focused on them specifically, but with more depth where other skills are naturally developed. The Red Mage, for instance, already knows what white & black magicks you've learned in XI so you don't have to get them again - but of course Red Mage never gets the strongest of either side. But if that idea could span across the entire development system, it would be gold.
That's basically what people end up doing anyway, or at least I think they should. The way they play Final Fantasy XI, I mean. At end-game you find your favorite job. It was never my goal to have EVERY job at lv.75 so I could change on a whim and be uber-1337. I wanted to find my favorite combination, do everything I possibly could with it. Build on it. Commit to it. If I were to add any suggestions to your concept it would be that skills that weren't being used (say after training for holy knight you switch to a dark knight concept, exchanging white magicks for black) would deteriorate over time. Instead of just exchanging one skill for another, these are perishable skills. Obviously if you're a mechanic and you start studying law you'll fall behind in you knowledge of automotives, and vice-versa. So you could "forget" spells, or at least become weaker in their practice. That would prevent players from saying "I've done it all. There's nothing left for me to do."
I'd cringe at players who had every single job at lv.75, every mission and every story complete. It's hard to believe that have normal lives. That little paragraph before you log in to Final Fantasy XI about not neglecting your school, work, and family? Sure it's the responsibility of players, but it might be a good way to limit their "hardcore-ness". Just a thought thought. I'm sure Square-Enix has pretty much solidified their development system. But it's excellent groundwork for a future MMORPG.
Originally posted by Gameslave Originally posted by RamenThief7 P.S. Did you like the idea I had on my character development system that would feel similar to FF XI? I created a post explaining how to go about doing that a while ago.
At least until more races are announced, if there are any (it seems like a mistake for there not to be) I'm still juggling between Hyuran & Elzen. My race right now is an Elvaan because I'm taller & slender..er - I have this hangup about my character having to look like me. Definitely black mage though. Unless they announce summoner.
The information we've been given sound pretty innovative, but it's still the core, the basics, so I'm wondering what's to come for roles like summoner and their celestial entities... I'm horribly impatient. I read your description and it was great! It sounds like a system I could fall in love with; somewhat reminiscent of D&D, where the best skills come to those who've focused on them specifically, but with more depth where other skills are naturally developed. The Red Mage, for instance, already knows what white & black magicks you've learned in XI so you don't have to get them again - but of course Red Mage never gets the strongest of either side. But if that idea could span across the entire development system, it would be gold. That's basically what people end up doing anyway, or at least I think they should. The way they play Final Fantasy XI, I mean. At end-game you find your favorite job. It was never my goal to have EVERY job at lv.75 so I could change on a whim and be uber-1337. I wanted to find my favorite combination, do everything I possibly could with it. Build on it. Commit to it. If I were to add any suggestions to your concept it would be that skills that weren't being used (say after training for holy knight you switch to a dark knight concept, exchanging white magicks for black) would deteriorate over time. Instead of just exchanging one skill for another, these are perishable skills. Obviously if you're a mechanic and you start studying law you'll fall behind in you knowledge of automotives, and vice-versa. So you could "forget" spells, or at least become weaker in their practice. That would prevent players from saying "I've done it all. There's nothing left for me to do." I'd cringe at players who had every single job at lv.75, every mission and every story complete. It's hard to believe that have normal lives. That little paragraph before you log in to Final Fantasy XI about not neglecting your school, work, and family? Sure it's the responsibility of players, but it might be a good way to limit their "hardcore-ness". Just a thought thought. I'm sure Square-Enix has pretty much solidified their development system. But it's excellent groundwork for a future MMORPG.
Whoah there. One of the things that keeps me playing FFXI is the carrot on the stick that maybe, possibly at some point I CAN do it all. I really want to have all jobs at 75, and all missions done in each city. Don't take those options away from the playerbase just because a few "hardcore" players don't know how to leave the house. There is a reason for longevity and goals like that, they make playing the game over 5 years viable.
Originally posted by elocke Whoah there. One of the things that keeps me playing FFXI is the carrot on the stick that maybe, possibly at some point I CAN do it all. I really want to have all jobs at 75, and all missions done in each city. Don't take those options away from the playerbase just because a few "hardcore" players don't know how to leave the house. There is a reason for longevity and goals like that, they make playing the game over 5 years viable.
If you've been playing since the game came out, it's understandable to have everything complete (or everything you're interested in, anyway). But if you've only been playing for a year or two I think 1) you went through the game too fast and 2) you need a new hobby. =p
But I think even if you HAVE completed everything, YES it's quite an accomplishment, but NO you shouldn't be complacent. So these perishable skills would give players REASON to go back to a job, to level it again. It would be a constant trade-development. Rather than being "done" with the game, you'd rebuild those skills you lost while you stuck to a certain play style. It would also encourage people to focus on something instead of scattering around and whining about never having completed anything.
I'm a casual player (though I might be a little more hardcore for XIV) but I wonder what their financial differential is from what is made off those who never complete the game it but still continue to play vs. those who have completed the game and stay anyway. I've known about as many people who've given up as have finally said "now what?" and went on to try other MMO's instead of sticking with XI after thinking there's nothing more they can do.
What made me go onto other MMO's was advancement and ease of play. Don't get me wrong, I like the challenges FFXI provides. I just don't like how long it takes to do certain things. Like crafting and leveling. Fun to be sure, once you get good streaks going, but they are far too dependant on vast amounts of time. So keep the challenge, just make skillups come more often, and I mean A LOT more often, and make leveling easier to do if you have no group to join.
What made me go onto other MMO's was advancement and ease of play. Don't get me wrong, I like the challenges FFXI provides. I just don't like how long it takes to do certain things. Like crafting and leveling. Fun to be sure, once you get good streaks going, but they are far too dependant on vast amounts of time. So keep the challenge, just make skillups come more often, and I mean A LOT more often, and make leveling easier to do if you have no group to join.
I have to totally disagree with you on that. I won't troll or bash, but it's by doing this that they only succeed in eliminating the challenge. Then I feel like I'm left with World of Warcraft, where I got to Lv.30 in a couple days of soloing. Not something you should be able to do in an MMORPG, imo. How can it be a challenge to craft when skillups & exp come so often?
These kinds of games just aren't meant for everyone, so when they try they usually fail. You might get more people who come & go, but it's the ones that stick around that really make the game & company worthwhile. And they won't stick around if the whole thing feels like a cake-walk.
What made me go onto other MMO's was advancement and ease of play. Don't get me wrong, I like the challenges FFXI provides. I just don't like how long it takes to do certain things. Like crafting and leveling. Fun to be sure, once you get good streaks going, but they are far too dependant on vast amounts of time. So keep the challenge, just make skillups come more often, and I mean A LOT more often, and make leveling easier to do if you have no group to join.
I have to totally disagree with you on that. I won't troll or bash, but it's by doing this that they only succeed in eliminating the challenge. Then I feel like I'm left with World of Warcraft, where I got to Lv.30 in a couple days of soloing. Not something you should be able to do in an MMORPG, imo. How can it be a challenge to craft when skillups & exp come so often? These kinds of games just aren't meant for everyone, so when they try they usually fail.
I agree 110% with gameslave, hes right on the money.
As for the yellow text some people (mostly casual'ers) just boggle my mind they want a challenge, yet they want it dumbed down further. They want a challenge yet they want it easier. wtf......... my god, sometimes I really wonder. Is the challenge turning on the computer, or is it booting up the game, or maybe trying to recal your password to access your user account on windows?
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
So you are saying that TIME spent = challenge? Really? Get a wife, kids and a job and come talk to me after that and see if your tune doesn't change.
You know, I have a friend on this website that does have a wife, kids, and a job, yet he found time to enjoy FF XI (his wife gave him time to be able to play, and I think he actually got his wife hooked on the game too as a result).
The thing is, developers really don't want you to finish a game quickly inside a P2P game. Because if you did reach endgame, and got bored, then you wouldn't stick around to play some more. And besides, what's the rush? Don't you want to enjoy the game for a while? Reaching endgame really is never the most important aspect in my opinion, it's more of enjoying the trip through your course in the game.
So you are saying that TIME spent = challenge? Really? Get a wife, kids and a job and come talk to me after that and see if your tune doesn't change.
hmmm thats funny tho I dont have any kids. I do work in the oil field, I put in anywhere from 50-80 hours a WEEK. I dont even recall my last 60 hour week they have all been 70-80 here recently because they laid off half ther darn shop. So dont play that card on me. As it is now I only have a couple hours tops on weekdays and 4-6 hours on weekend days.
I dont beleive time spent=challenege. I dont believe an MMO is a challenege. There is 0 challenege sitting on your rear hitting keys on a keyboard. (unless its twitch gaming buit mmo's are not that) If everytime we hit a mob we gain a level we might as well just start at max level instead of wasting 2 freaking weeks getting there. Longer it takes to get to max w/e it is you max in ffxiv the better. You should appritiate it better. When I got to max level in FFXI for the first time the feeling was that of accomplishment, It took several months and back then I was playing kind of hardcore ( I had more time). I played various other games got to max in several weeks playing casually and it was like "ok that sucked what now" It was so much harder walking away from ffxi than any of these other pud games.
Edit: In case your wondering Ill tell you wat a real challenege is. Getting home at 1:00 AM after an 16 hour day and having to be back at the shop at 5:00 Am To drive a truck 300 miles to a well site to perforate a 5 stage job. That my friend is a challenege, and aginst DOT, but if you dont do it might as well look for another job.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Comments
Honestly I've never spammed to find more healers. XI isn't like that. You use the syntax
/sea all whm taru 30-
that brings up every white mage taru lv.30-75 currently online. If you want to see ALL white mages that are online, you use
/sea all whm
If you're just looking for those who are LFP?
/sea all whm inv
Why spam for healers? If you're depending on someone to sympathize and change THEIR job for the sake of your party, why not be the healer yourself? Or ask one of your currently members? Or find a way to improvise. That's the role of the leader, to be knowledgable enough not just to look for specific members, but to know what will make the party work. I've been in parties without white mages (dnc, rdm, sch) that carried on just fine.
Abraxas [365]
Still classifying. So what makes a tank? Having heavy armor doesn't necessarily mean you're capable of using it effectively. Are you going to spend 5-10 minutes examining each member's skill tree? Not only are you unsure of who you're inspecting, but they have to "suit up" before being inspected. That's a lot of time wasted already, especially if they were asked to change to suit the party if there was already a more suitable member, and especially if you were already at the combat location, at which point most would give up and start soloing with their invite flag on.
"Call me when y'all get it together."
"Are you ready?"
"I'm sorry, I already got another invite."
Wash. Rinse. Repeat. I just don't see it happening...
Abraxas [365]
You're just arguing to argue now.
No problem you have described is prevented with a class-based system. Asking for a tank of a certain level range does not mean you will get players who are sufficiently geared or who know how to play their class. The former will still require suiting up and inspection. The latter is still a shot in the dark, unless a party member knows the prospect in question.
I'm done with this thread.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The WAR PQ system still requires healing and tanking. To take on the final boss in the last stage, usually a very difficult hero requires at least one tank to soak up his damage and one healer if not more to keep him up. What WAR does well, in my opinion, and this is only with the classes, is makes healers also do some sweet damage, giving them alot more things to do then sit in the back spamming heals and nothing else. At least they get to do damage as well.
So still, you will always have some type of role to play in a group, otherwise why have a group? just for sheer numbers? that's pretty simpleminded to me and sheer numbers don't always win. Look at 300.
Well I played Ultima Online for 3 years (1999-2002), it was my first mmorpg.
UO has no levels, it is a skill based MMORPG.
You had in total 700 skill points, every skill could max at 100, so you could have 7 skills at max. Or you could have more skills but not at max skill points. (well when I played)
There were no healer tank dps stuff, and I must say, I prefer the Healer tank dps idea. Each party member playing a role is just so much more fun, at least for me.
In UO I played with other people sometimes. But everyone is just doing their stuff, no group feeling at all. They later had also a thing that had the same idea as PQ in WAR. (Actually they had the PQ idea long before WAR)
I like PQ idea, but it shouldn't be PQ only. I think they should have many different kind of quests.
Just like I love instances, if it is for a story quest, but for the rest it should be avoided, because it does take away from the MMO feeling.
I wish the interview said more about character customization. That was the thing what bothered me a lot in FFXI. In an MMORPG I want to have my own identity. (At least more then what you had in FFXI)
Some MMORPGs have to much sliders and stuff. I prefer a lot of hairstyles, and hair colors, and clothing / armor, that can be dyed.
I guess they go for skill based, I wonder how they will do it. I liked UO in this, you could make any combination.
Let say you just have all those skills like Evasion, Parry, Sword, Axe, Shield, White magic, Black magic, and all other skills you had in FFXI, but you could make your own selection what skills you want to use.
Give a max amount of skill points or skills, and let the player do the rest.
Maybe some combination can give abilities. Like White magic + Shield + Sword gives Paladin special abilities.
The interview said that weapons were important in this game, this make me think it will be like FFIX, or FFX-2. That you can learn skills from weapons.
I don't really like the idea of weapons being that important, I hope you aren't forced to use weapons. I like Healer and mages a lot, but I dislike it to use weapons with them.
I hope more info comes out soon, so that we can have a better idea what to expect. Whatever it is I will try it out, I loved FFXI, and I am still playing it.
One thing I would like to remind everyone is that SE announced that they did like the job system, but in an attempt to make it less rigid, people grow by character growth. This does not mean they will do away with the job system, but they are going to make alot of changes to it.
I hope it will happen like this. I decide that I wish to create a white mage-like character, so I focus on skills in that sector. As a result, since I'm so dedicated to the white mage "role," the game rewards me by allowing me to be able to unlock the most powerful white magic type spells. In this example, I get the ability to unlock Curaja (the strongest group healing magic spell), Full Cure (completely cure one person's health), and Holy (a holy element attack spell, it's typically a little stronger than elemental spells depending on the resistances of your target). If you weren't dedicated on working vastly on the white mage, you would never be able to even unlock these spells. However, I also decided to work on a warrior type class. In this example, I decide to work on a Knight class (one of my personal favorites from FF Tactics). While I didn't work on it as vastly as the white mage abilities, I do get the Knight abilities up to a good "level" of growth.
Now, the game mechanics notices that I worked greatly on the White Mage abilities, as well as some of the Knight abilities. As my character continues to "grow," eventually something cool happens. The game, realizing that I worked on knight and white mage roles, opens up a new skill area. I can now work on the Holy Knight abilities (this was my second favorite class from FF Tactics). This opens me up to some powerful holy-type spells that deal vast damage (especially to the undead in this example, not sure if this applied to FF Tactics, been a while since I played it on my PSP). So now I can function as a tanker that can whip out decently powerful holy-type spells, and do some decent healing (but since I equip a sword and shield in this case, my white magic is slightly weaker than before and I can't use certain white mage spells anymore). It doesn't make me vastly more powerful than anyone else, but my chosen abilities from certain "roles" unlocked a "role" based on the growth.
I do like where SE is going with the whole "weapons help determine your role" thought. In this example, I am now a character with abilities from the Knight, White Mage, and Holy Knight. I decided to equip heavy armor, a sword and a shield. But, thanks to unlocking certain passives from the Holy Knight, my Holy Knight abilities and White Mage abilities are stronger than before, so I can deal decent magic damage/healing as a tanker, and a heavy armor wearing soldier with a shield and sword in hand is hard to kill. However, I eventually get a little bored and decide to start being more magic-oriented. I still heavy armor for tanker defense, but I now equip a staff and unequip my sword and shield. As a result, I can no longer use the Holy Knight abilities since I am not using a sword and shield. However, now my magic power is further advanced, so my White Mage abilities become powerful and I can use all white magic abilities again. Since I am wearing heavy armor, my magic power isn't as fully amped as they could be, but it's still decently powerful enough.
I would love FF XIV like this. It rewards people that focuses on certain abilities for a "determined role," yet you can use different weapons, equipment, and abilities, and they determine what you are. I could be a Holy Knight character, who is a powerful tanker (not as strong as a regular Knight in terms of tanker aspects) and uses Holy-element spells to deal damage, and having worked on previous Knight and White Mage abilities, I can use them as well. However, I'm not restricted to these abilities alone. I could decide to then wear equipment and be a Black Mage-like character to use powerful elemental spells if I wanted and deal decent damage (but at this point I would be a severely weak "Black Mage" compared to someone else who worked on Black Mage abilities this whole time). This would also discourage people from being "jack of all trades" builds which would damage group aspects (because then no one has a true determined role, which could lead to chaos in group play). Why do a little bit of everything, when you could do certain roles you like, make them awesome, which could potentially lead to new and powerful abilities from a completely different "role?"
Of course, I would like to also state that you can't really just use any equipment with whatever abilities and be awesome. If I worked solely on Black Mage and White Mage abilities and wear mage robe, then I would be pathetic at dealing damage with a tanker-based weapon like a battleaxe for example. Whatever abilities you work on and whatever equipment you wear would help determine your weapon's potential. So, I then switch to heavy armor and apply whatever Knight abilities I have, and then my battleaxe would become decent (even if I didn't really work on Knight, but remember you wouldn't be as good as a true "Knight" role).
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
Abraxas [365]
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
Hmmm...you do have a good point there. The character development system I have created doesn't really encourage switching roles freely like FF XI had. My idea could very well alienate the original FF XI fanbase, something I have been fighting all this time.
I tell you what. I shall have a post soon that expands on my character development idea. One that allows you to freely switch "roles," but doesn't encourage people to continuously spawn "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
I really like what you wrote. Though we still know nothing really, do you think that would be the most likely basis for the new development system? And, I'm just curious how players would change their roles when they grew tired of them or couldn't advance any further. It sounds like you'd only have one character per 1½ - 2 specializations to avoid the 'jack of all trades' failures. Where in Xi you can just change jobs, ultimately completing everything with one character (which many people love), would people be okay with needing a new character to explore different paths?
Hmmm...you do have a good point there. The character development system I have created doesn't really encourage switching roles freely like FF XI had. My idea could very well alienate the original FF XI fanbase, something I have been fighting all this time.
I tell you what. I shall have a post soon that expands on my character development idea. One that allows you to freely switch "roles," but doesn't encourage people to continuously spawn "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
I've got it! I know how my character development idea could be expanded to allow free choice of class, yet encourage people to stick to particular classes to avoid "jack of all trades" builds that would wreck group aspects.
As you advance on in growth with classes, all the other classes (even ones you don't really work on at all) would also steadily grow. However, they would be powerful as to the point of regularity. The trick comes when someone works on a particular class area for a while, and as a result, starts getting spells, abilities and passives for their hard work. I have a fun example to show this:
An experienced black mage with several abilities gained through hard work meets a person who has equal "growth" (in other words, would've been the same level as the experienced black mage if there was a level system in the game) but has never worked on black mage before.
Experienced (E) black mage: Hey, weren't you usually an Arcane Mage? Why are you equipping black mage abilities and equipment?
Unexperienced (UE) black mage: I felt like being a black mage today. Hey, check this out, I haven't done black mage once, and I already have Firaga, Thundaga, and Blizzarga, how awesome is that? I'm almost as powerful as you, and I didn't need to work one year at all!
E Black Mage: Hmmm....ok then. Show me your Thundga spell on that mob of 3 enemies.
(UE Black Mage kills them in one cast)
UE Black Mage: Awesome! Makes you feel weird for being that powerful with no work, eh?
E Black Mage: Hmm.....
(E Black Mage casts Thunderja, the strongest lightning-element spell that could only be learned through experience and growth, and obliterates a mob of 7)
UE Black Mage: How did you...what was that?
E Black Mage: Thunderja. You don't see it inside your skill chain because while I worked one year on this class mostly, you did Arcane Mage abilities. Also, I unlocked passives on my Black Mage role through growth, ones you probably don't have right now.
UE Black Mage: So in other words, even though I have many powerful abilities and was able to be a black mage during this time against strong enemies, I would've been more powerful if I had worked on Black Mage before?
E Black Mage: Correct. You see, I never worked on Arcane Magic abilities, but I have alot of powerful ones. Yet, I have no passives to increase its potential because I never worked on Arcane Magic abilities, and I don't have the Invert or Bubble spells like you do.
Basically, as you grow, you can still technically be whatever you want. A person that has grown quite a bit, yet never worked on Black Mage abilities, would be powerful, but nowhere near as powerful as someone who has grown just as much as first said person but worked on Black Mage abilities, thus having access to more. Also, certain "roles," like the Holy Knight or Dark Knight, would only attainable when you work on certain roles. Therefore, through hard work, you would get access to more abilities from other roles, but still technically have good abilities from other "roles" were you to want to play a different style.
Of course, balancing the spells you can have as you grow but never work on it's "role" would be tricky for SE. And, you don't get these abilities immediately, they will come later. The E Black Mage got his Thundaga, Firaga and Blizzarga spells in only 6 months, while the UE Black Mage got his 1 year later because he never focused on Black Mage abilities. Also, the E Black Mage has two passives, one that reduces mana consumption from black mage abilities and one that grants him extra damage with black mage abilities. The UE Black Mage does not have any of these passives, he never worked on the role.
But can you work on the BLM role, if u choose to in the future? That is the question.
Not whether you can use all the spells and abilities at once, but, when you equip the BLM specific weapons and "become" blm, can u then spend some time leveling that so you can be proficient in many "jobs" .... that was possible in FF11. Truly proficient in many jobs, you just had to choose to be that job
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Well, looks like you either get to use a sword or be a mage, not both.
http://www.ffxivcore.com/index.php?/topic/92-ffxiv-classes-revealed/
Races:
Hume: Hyuran (NA) ????? Hyu-ran (JP) (pronounced "Hyoo rawn")
Taru: Lalafell
Galka: Roegadyn (NA) ????? Rugadein (JP) (pronounced "Roo ga deen")
Elvaan: Elzen
Mithra: Miqo'te
Job System:
There are four categories for now: Warriors, Magus, Crafters and Hunters/Fielders. In each category, there are different jobs:
Warrior: Swordsman, Archer
Magus: Enchanter, Sorcerer
Crafter: Smith, Cook
Gatherer: Gardener, Fisher
What this means for hybrid classes such as Red Mage, no idea.
That could work in my example's way. The difference is that to be a "black mage," I would guess that you have to work on sorcerer abilities. It also could mean that you could unlock different abilities from any of those roles and mash them together, although it would be far more rewarding to have at least one "main" role.
I would guess that if I wanted to create a "holy knight" role, I would have to work on Swordsman (for the knight part) and white magic types spells and other support magics. If it worked this way, I would be a Swordsman who could cast healing magic and other various support magics (like protect or bubble for example), as well as throw Holy-type magic at my opponents to hurt them.
However, one thing I've read is that the weapon equipped completely determines what your role would be. So, if it were the case that equipping a sword made me unable to use magic, well, I take back what I said earlier about weapons helping determine your role being awesome, it would restrict my choices and I would be unable to create my Holy Knight role.
I just wanted to point out that there seemed to be a distinct definition/usage of the terms role and job system. The Job system is your class, Swordsman, Sorcerer, ect. Your role however isn't as defined. Do they mean tank/healer/dps/cc? If thats the case then could it be that perhaps the weapon you use determines the kind of skills (Growth) you get? For example: A Sorcerer equips a sword and shield, and the spells he learns tend to be more defensive and aggro generating to augment this weaponstyle. A Sorcerer job playing the tank role.
Could be interesting. Most definatley has me intrigued.
I just want to be able to change my mind after a year of being a sorceror and then decide to be a knight, and because of my time as a sorceror its a litle easier for me to level/learn knight abilities. Then I want to be able to choose one or the other in end game... similar to the choice your left with years after playing FF11...
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
I'm guessing you'd probably quest for a holy sword with properties that opened up certain teirs of white magic to the sense of Final Fantasy XI's "advanced" jobs. Sounds more or less like two different systems with the same objective.
From my experiences in Final Fantasy XI, I'll most likely be playing as a Hyuran. Their need for freedom, lack of unity, and varying culture describes this multiracial nomadic lone wolf like nothing ever before. And I'll probably stick to one set path at first, rather than trying to do everything. I never got to Lv.75 of completed any of that endgame stuff in Final Fantasy XI because I tried doing it all. Of course, there's something to be said for having every job unlocked, past lv.20, but NO 75's? I'll either be a crafter because I can't stand not having money - or stick to the dedicated path of the sorcerer, or whatever the case would be for elemental magical damage.
Still, as indecisive as I am, that's all subject to change with each new announcement.
Abraxas [365]
I'm guessing you'd probably quest for a holy sword with properties that opened up certain teirs of white magic to the sense of Final Fantasy XI's "advanced" jobs. Sounds more or less like two different systems with the same objective.
From my experiences in Final Fantasy XI, I'll most likely be playing as a Hyuran. Their need for freedom, lack of unity, and varying culture describes this multiracial nomadic lone wolf like nothing ever before. And I'll probably stick to one set path at first, rather than trying to do everything. I never got to Lv.75 of completed any of that endgame stuff in Final Fantasy XI because I tried doing it all. Of course, there's something to be said for having every job unlocked, past lv.20, but NO 75's? I'll either be a crafter because I can't stand not having money - or stick to the dedicated path of the sorcerer, or whatever the case would be for elemental magical damage.
Still, as indecisive as I am, that's all subject to change with each new announcement.
I would either be:
a) Holy Knight
b) White Mage (whatever you work on to be this role, since the enchanter seems like where I get to be this role)
c) Ninja
Of course, I would work on Blacksmith with all of these options.
Not sure what race I would be.
Edit Part:
P.S. Did you like the idea I had on my character development system that would feel similar to FF XI? I created a post explaining how to go about doing that a while ago.
At least until more races are announced, if there are any (it seems like a mistake for there not to be) I'm still juggling between Hyuran & Elzen. My race right now is an Elvaan because I'm taller & slender..er - I have this hangup about my character having to look like me. Definitely black mage though. Unless they announce summoner.
The information we've been given sound pretty innovative, but it's still the core, the basics, so I'm wondering what's to come for roles like summoner and their celestial entities... I'm horribly impatient.
I read your description and it was great! It sounds like a system I could fall in love with; somewhat reminiscent of D&D, where the best skills come to those who've focused on them specifically, but with more depth where other skills are naturally developed. The Red Mage, for instance, already knows what white & black magicks you've learned in XI so you don't have to get them again - but of course Red Mage never gets the strongest of either side. But if that idea could span across the entire development system, it would be gold.
That's basically what people end up doing anyway, or at least I think they should. The way they play Final Fantasy XI, I mean. At end-game you find your favorite job. It was never my goal to have EVERY job at lv.75 so I could change on a whim and be uber-1337. I wanted to find my favorite combination, do everything I possibly could with it. Build on it. Commit to it. If I were to add any suggestions to your concept it would be that skills that weren't being used (say after training for holy knight you switch to a dark knight concept, exchanging white magicks for black) would deteriorate over time. Instead of just exchanging one skill for another, these are perishable skills. Obviously if you're a mechanic and you start studying law you'll fall behind in you knowledge of automotives, and vice-versa. So you could "forget" spells, or at least become weaker in their practice. That would prevent players from saying "I've done it all. There's nothing left for me to do."
I'd cringe at players who had every single job at lv.75, every mission and every story complete. It's hard to believe that have normal lives. That little paragraph before you log in to Final Fantasy XI about not neglecting your school, work, and family? Sure it's the responsibility of players, but it might be a good way to limit their "hardcore-ness". Just a thought thought. I'm sure Square-Enix has pretty much solidified their development system. But it's excellent groundwork for a future MMORPG.
Abraxas [365]
The information we've been given sound pretty innovative, but it's still the core, the basics, so I'm wondering what's to come for roles like summoner and their celestial entities... I'm horribly impatient.
I read your description and it was great! It sounds like a system I could fall in love with; somewhat reminiscent of D&D, where the best skills come to those who've focused on them specifically, but with more depth where other skills are naturally developed. The Red Mage, for instance, already knows what white & black magicks you've learned in XI so you don't have to get them again - but of course Red Mage never gets the strongest of either side. But if that idea could span across the entire development system, it would be gold.
That's basically what people end up doing anyway, or at least I think they should. The way they play Final Fantasy XI, I mean. At end-game you find your favorite job. It was never my goal to have EVERY job at lv.75 so I could change on a whim and be uber-1337. I wanted to find my favorite combination, do everything I possibly could with it. Build on it. Commit to it. If I were to add any suggestions to your concept it would be that skills that weren't being used (say after training for holy knight you switch to a dark knight concept, exchanging white magicks for black) would deteriorate over time. Instead of just exchanging one skill for another, these are perishable skills. Obviously if you're a mechanic and you start studying law you'll fall behind in you knowledge of automotives, and vice-versa. So you could "forget" spells, or at least become weaker in their practice. That would prevent players from saying "I've done it all. There's nothing left for me to do."
I'd cringe at players who had every single job at lv.75, every mission and every story complete. It's hard to believe that have normal lives. That little paragraph before you log in to Final Fantasy XI about not neglecting your school, work, and family? Sure it's the responsibility of players, but it might be a good way to limit their "hardcore-ness". Just a thought thought. I'm sure Square-Enix has pretty much solidified their development system. But it's excellent groundwork for a future MMORPG.
Whoah there. One of the things that keeps me playing FFXI is the carrot on the stick that maybe, possibly at some point I CAN do it all. I really want to have all jobs at 75, and all missions done in each city. Don't take those options away from the playerbase just because a few "hardcore" players don't know how to leave the house. There is a reason for longevity and goals like that, they make playing the game over 5 years viable.
If you've been playing since the game came out, it's understandable to have everything complete (or everything you're interested in, anyway). But if you've only been playing for a year or two I think 1) you went through the game too fast and 2) you need a new hobby. =p
But I think even if you HAVE completed everything, YES it's quite an accomplishment, but NO you shouldn't be complacent. So these perishable skills would give players REASON to go back to a job, to level it again. It would be a constant trade-development. Rather than being "done" with the game, you'd rebuild those skills you lost while you stuck to a certain play style. It would also encourage people to focus on something instead of scattering around and whining about never having completed anything.
I'm a casual player (though I might be a little more hardcore for XIV) but I wonder what their financial differential is from what is made off those who never complete the game it but still continue to play vs. those who have completed the game and stay anyway. I've known about as many people who've given up as have finally said "now what?" and went on to try other MMO's instead of sticking with XI after thinking there's nothing more they can do.
Abraxas [365]
What made me go onto other MMO's was advancement and ease of play. Don't get me wrong, I like the challenges FFXI provides. I just don't like how long it takes to do certain things. Like crafting and leveling. Fun to be sure, once you get good streaks going, but they are far too dependant on vast amounts of time. So keep the challenge, just make skillups come more often, and I mean A LOT more often, and make leveling easier to do if you have no group to join.
I have to totally disagree with you on that. I won't troll or bash, but it's by doing this that they only succeed in eliminating the challenge. Then I feel like I'm left with World of Warcraft, where I got to Lv.30 in a couple days of soloing. Not something you should be able to do in an MMORPG, imo. How can it be a challenge to craft when skillups & exp come so often?
These kinds of games just aren't meant for everyone, so when they try they usually fail. You might get more people who come & go, but it's the ones that stick around that really make the game & company worthwhile. And they won't stick around if the whole thing feels like a cake-walk.
Abraxas [365]
I have to totally disagree with you on that. I won't troll or bash, but it's by doing this that they only succeed in eliminating the challenge. Then I feel like I'm left with World of Warcraft, where I got to Lv.30 in a couple days of soloing. Not something you should be able to do in an MMORPG, imo. How can it be a challenge to craft when skillups & exp come so often? These kinds of games just aren't meant for everyone, so when they try they usually fail.
I agree 110% with gameslave, hes right on the money.
As for the yellow text some people (mostly casual'ers) just boggle my mind they want a challenge, yet they want it dumbed down further. They want a challenge yet they want it easier. wtf......... my god, sometimes I really wonder. Is the challenge turning on the computer, or is it booting up the game, or maybe trying to recal your password to access your user account on windows?
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
So you are saying that TIME spent = challenge? Really? Get a wife, kids and a job and come talk to me after that and see if your tune doesn't change.
You know, I have a friend on this website that does have a wife, kids, and a job, yet he found time to enjoy FF XI (his wife gave him time to be able to play, and I think he actually got his wife hooked on the game too as a result).
The thing is, developers really don't want you to finish a game quickly inside a P2P game. Because if you did reach endgame, and got bored, then you wouldn't stick around to play some more. And besides, what's the rush? Don't you want to enjoy the game for a while? Reaching endgame really is never the most important aspect in my opinion, it's more of enjoying the trip through your course in the game.
hmmm thats funny tho I dont have any kids. I do work in the oil field, I put in anywhere from 50-80 hours a WEEK. I dont even recall my last 60 hour week they have all been 70-80 here recently because they laid off half ther darn shop. So dont play that card on me. As it is now I only have a couple hours tops on weekdays and 4-6 hours on weekend days.
I dont beleive time spent=challenege. I dont believe an MMO is a challenege. There is 0 challenege sitting on your rear hitting keys on a keyboard. (unless its twitch gaming buit mmo's are not that) If everytime we hit a mob we gain a level we might as well just start at max level instead of wasting 2 freaking weeks getting there. Longer it takes to get to max w/e it is you max in ffxiv the better. You should appritiate it better. When I got to max level in FFXI for the first time the feeling was that of accomplishment, It took several months and back then I was playing kind of hardcore ( I had more time). I played various other games got to max in several weeks playing casually and it was like "ok that sucked what now" It was so much harder walking away from ffxi than any of these other pud games.
Edit: In case your wondering Ill tell you wat a real challenege is. Getting home at 1:00 AM after an 16 hour day and having to be back at the shop at 5:00 Am To drive a truck 300 miles to a well site to perforate a 5 stage job. That my friend is a challenege, and aginst DOT, but if you dont do it might as well look for another job.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI