At least 10 000 people have quite good trust in MO. Seems like all the beta-access preorders sold out on the 4th.
Someone might call them having blind faith as there isn't any evidence that it will perform as well as is needed. But if it does, I'd say they have a big chance of success.
-------(not using quote to avoid that huge quote pyramid he had)--------
Actually I know quite a bit about financial statements, working on my MAcc right now and have been in the accounting profession for 8 years.
I dont feel like trying to interept there statements, its not in english btw, I was just playing a mini game with cyborg. If you want to interept there statements, go for it, the link is right there.
So grab a beer, have a bitch suck your dick and chill with the macho internet speech.
Their = ownership of a third party. "Look at their income!"
The're = contraction of 'they are'. "The're really dumb."
I am the product of the State of California Public Education System. Ranked one of the worst in the USA. And I learned this in 3rd grade. Congrats on winning your mini-game. Now put the beer down. Stop abusing the female dog that way, and march your "macho" self back into grade school. I hope you can at least spell your numbers correctly and take greater care in your equations. (end rant)
It seems they are taking the Mourning, DnL approach of make their money now on pre-sales as its unlikely they will be making anything long term. To a lesser extent one could put AoC in the same category but DnL and Mourning seem mroe appropiate in terms of promises and being small indy devs.
They might prove me wrong but its never a good sign when a company tries to cash in by selling beta spots rather than showing enough confidence i their product to make money on the back end. With a long term business model based on a good reputation through word of mouth.
Assuming its a scam who do we blame? The Devs or the fanboys that hype these games to unachievable expectations and never seem to learn that perhaps they are being deceived.
So what do we have by looking at these very basic statements?
Well we look at there income statement, no revenue just expenses, seems logical they have nothing to sell yet they are in development stage.
Lets take a look at the balance sheet, hmm well looks like they got an equity account, their means of funding (investors) and no retained earnings, which again is logical they aren't selling anything yet.
So what did they do with that funding? Well looks like they spent most of it on FIXED assets, once again logical, need equipment, office and software your gonna use. The rest of it is cash in bank and current rec'v which is most likely a contra account for prepaid expenses.
So basically unless they get more funding from their investors they were running low on cash, and sense they have no revenue whatsoever their only source of income was from investors.... OR ding ding actual revenue sales of games to get in beta.
I'm not a fanbot but where are you getting the idea that they're strapped for cash?
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir. (ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually I know quite a bit about financial statements, working on my MAcc right now and have been in the accounting profession for 8 years.
I dont feel like trying to interept there statements, its not in english btw, I was just playing a mini game with cyborg. If you want to interept there statements, go for it, the link is right there.
So grab a beer, have a bitch suck your dick and chill with the macho internet speech. Thank god you're not working on your GED. There = a place. "Look over there!" Their = ownership of a third party. "Look at their income!" The're = contraction of 'they are'. "The're really dumb." I am the product of the State of California Public Education System. Ranked one of the worst in the USA. And I learned this in 3rd grade. Congrats on winning your mini-game. Now put the beer down. Stop abusing the female dog that way. and march your "macho" self back into grade school. I hope you can at least spell your numbers correctly and take greater care in your equations. (end rant)
Never claimed to be good at spelling or grammar, do you feel all powerful now? Got a 32 in verbal, not great on my GMAT and a 46 on the quantitative section which is pretty good.
Btw I'm done playing my epeen is bigger than yours on this thread and if my synopsis on "their" statements was not detailed enough for yah, well sorry dont feel like doing a research paper on it.
Actually I know quite a bit about financial statements, working on my MAcc right now and have been in the accounting profession for 8 years.
I dont feel like trying to interept there statements, its not in english btw, I was just playing a mini game with cyborg. If you want to interept there statements, go for it, the link is right there.
So grab a beer, have a bitch suck your dick and chill with the macho internet speech. Thank god you're not working on your GED. There = a place. "Look over there!" Their = ownership of a third party. "Look at their income!" The're = contraction of 'they are'. "The're really dumb." I am the product of the State of California Public Education System. Ranked one of the worst in the USA. And I learned this in 3rd grade. Congrats on winning your mini-game. Now put the beer down. Stop abusing the female dog that way. and march your "macho" self back into grade school. I hope you can at least spell your numbers correctly and take greater care in your equations. (end rant)
Yup, you ARE a product of California. It's "they're", not "the're". Where I went to school, we learned to proof-read before we turned in our papers. Just giving you a hard time. Otherwise, the post is spot-on.
@shaunathan: the fact that someone like yourself can get a college degree proves it's worth as much as a sheet of toilet paper, as far as being a mark of intelligence is concerned. Oh, and it's "interpret", not "interept". Ass.
Well i don't mind improper grammer on the internet due to easily made mistakes unless it is impossible to read.Besides people make mistakes all the time.Now for Mortal Online's success there may be a bit of a problem but i am sure it will smooth out after awhile but it would better if they could delay the release.
Edit:Actually i don't think it will turn out very well though i mean name some other companies that develop games with those problems i do mean all of them.
Like pong i keep bouncing back and forth between games.
I'm not a fanbot but where are you getting the idea that they're strapped for cash?
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
lol... I'm calling you ignorant !!
The game is in early beta. Starvault needed a true sense of the community, to gauge what in store for them upon release. The pre-sale did add more money in the coffers, but that only allowed them to accelerate beta and pay for Bandwidth and actual hardware for beta.
The game is going as planned and if you've ready anything or seen some of the leaks, the game is incredible and dead-on with what StarVault has promised.
Almost anyone who's actually educated themselves on the mattrer knows. Since you don't.. you're must be fabricating this, trolling or ignorant!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
The game is in early beta. Starvault needed a true sense of the community, to gauge what in store for them upon release. The pre-sale did add more money in the coffers, but that only allowed them to accelerate beta and pay for Bandwidth and actual hardware for beta.
The game is going as planned and if you've ready anything or seen some of the leaks, the game is incredible and dead-on with what StarVault has promised.
Almost anyone who's actually educated themselves on the mattrer knows. Since you don't.. you're must be fabricating this, trolling or ignorant!
I have to say ... to be a such a young development team they know fairly well what will work and what will not work, what will be fun in the long run.
It is also brave to not going for the massmarket ... taking that easy path following the WoW concept ... but that path can at the same time be the trap that so many other have fallen into ... like AoC and War.
No, they try to make a game they themself think is entertaining whatever all other people say ... and that is the first step to success.
I am pretty sure that Star Vault will get more than 200k subscribers within a half year after release if the combat, crafting and exploration is fun. But if they succed to create something exceptional like a really great combat and crafting system and that exploring is really exciting ... this game can get more than 1million subscribers, a year after release.
I have to say ... to be a such a young development team they know fairly well what will work and what will not work, what will be fun in the long run. It is also brave to not going for the massmarket ... taking that easy path following the WoW concept ... but that path can at the same time be the trap that so many other have fallen into ... like AoC and War. No, they try to make a game they themself think is entertaining whatever all other people say ... and that is the first step to success. I am pretty sure that Star Vault will get more than 200k subscribers within a half year after release if the combat, crafting and exploration is fun. But if they succed to create something exceptional like a really great combat and crafting system and that exploring is really exciting ... this game can get more than 1million subscribers, a year after release.
that's some strong hydro youre smoking there homie
its a real PVP game not Everquest. Best I could hope for them would be 50k to 75 k concurrent subscribers, which i'm doubting right now. they need more development time till 2010 perhaps, to have a chance.
I honestly don't think they're doing a bad job so far. They've have had their problems but they do everything they can when those problems arise to correct them. A lot of the problems you mentioned, i.e. the shop being a mess, with the site crashing and then the sales screwing up was actually not their fault. Those were issues with their first host and Global Collect respectively. When those happened the devs stayed up all night, till about 10AM their time to get things working. I'm in the beta and from what I've seen so far the devs are some of the most honest and hard working devs in the business. They communicate with the players(albeit poorly via IRC at this point and twitter) constantly and work incredibly long hours when necessary to make certain deadlines. The patches and progress made on the server since beta launch, less than 3 weeks ago, has been phenominal. They're about to release another patch today, as a matter of fact. Each patch has made huge advances. When the beta first launched it crashed something like every 3-10 minutes, at best. This past thursday I played for 6 hours straight with no crashes(but several boots for improvements by the devs). With every mistake the devs make they seem to learn and become better. My only real concern at the moment is that there are still no beta forums where people can keep track of conversations. At the moment it's kind of a pain to join an IRC channel and ask the same questions everyone else does because there's no static source of information available(except twitter). The game itself makes up for it though, I think. After playing it and experiencing the incredible world, and a level of immersion I've never felt before, I can guarantee that as long as this game launches, I will be playing it for many years.
The MMO market have grown more than 10 times since EQ and there are alot of old players and also alot of new players that have gotten tiered about the gameplay style ala WoW, War and AoC ... I think 200k+ is not at all impossible if they deliver what they have said.
AND if they create something exceptional good ... if the game is really fun and entertaining people will like it and they can get more than a million, even thou the chanses for that isnt high ... but why not ... just think outside your tiny box.
> Einstein-DF The MMO market have grown more than 10 times since EQ and there are alot of old players and also alot of new players that have gotten tiered about the gameplay style ala WoW, War and AoC ... I think 200k+ is not at all impossible if they deliver what they have said. AND if they create something exceptional good ... if the game is really fun and entertaining people will like it and they can get more than a million, even thou the chanses for that isnt high ... but why not ... just think outside your tiny box.
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
> Einstein-DF The MMO market have grown more than 10 times since EQ and there are alot of old players and also alot of new players that have gotten tiered about the gameplay style ala WoW, War and AoC ... I think 200k+ is not at all impossible if they deliver what they have said. AND if they create something exceptional good ... if the game is really fun and entertaining people will like it and they can get more than a million, even thou the chanses for that isnt high ... but why not ... just think outside your tiny box.
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
So you think over 200k subscribers for MO is a fantasy?
Here is some facts ...
Ultima Online had over 225k subscribers 7 years ago for allmost 3 years ... Everquest had over 400k subscribers for over 4 years. Everquest was like UO a more "hardcore" game. Over the years millions of people have played and enjoy these two games.
I know many WoW players that are really tiered of WoW, War and AoC style ... and want something new.
Today the MMO market is like 10 times larger and the number of player that could like a game as MO with simularities to UO and some with EQ1 must be several times more today that 7 years ago. I am also certain that new MMO players would find a game as MO fun to play if they tried it.
So, you better explain for me why not MO can't get more than 200k.
FYI. Using the word fanboy doesn't count as an argument.
> Einstein-DF The MMO market have grown more than 10 times since EQ and there are alot of old players and also alot of new players that have gotten tiered about the gameplay style ala WoW, War and AoC ... I think 200k+ is not at all impossible if they deliver what they have said. AND if they create something exceptional good ... if the game is really fun and entertaining people will like it and they can get more than a million, even thou the chanses for that isnt high ... but why not ... just think outside your tiny box.
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
So you think over 200k subscribers for MO is a fantasy?
Here is some facts ...
Ultima Online had over 225k subscribers 7 years ago for allmost 3 years ... Everquest had over 400k subscribers for over 4 years. Everquest was like UO a more "hardcore" game. Over the years millions of people have played and enjoy these two games.
I know many WoW players that are really tiered of WoW, War and AoC style ... and want something new.
Today the MMO market is like 10 times larger and the number of player that could like a game as MO with simularities to UO and some with EQ1 must be several times more today that 7 years ago. I am also certain that new MMO players would find a game as MO fun to play if they tried it.
So, you better explain for me why not MO can't get more than 200k.
FYI. Using the word fanboy doesn't count as an argument.
MO can get more than 10 million subs, i'm not saying it cant. But its not realistic - realistic in my opinion is 50-75k
simple and comprehensive i hope
About UO - it was the only game of it's time besides Meridian 59. And when trammel came out Felucca became a ghost town. You tell me what MO is like, Trammel or Felucca? right
EQ was a hardcore game for carebears...simply put. It was hard but a carebear game. If you cannot understand that well i'm sorry but i will not expand this into a monologue.
Yes, often it is like that ... people are in general to optimistic ... but in some cases people have also been to "pessimistic" ... and the result becomes much better than peoples highest expectations.
One example of that was clearly World Of Warcraft ... well maybe the french company Vivendi did the best gess here, because they bought Blizzard at the time that game was released.
Setting a low subscription number isent allways the correct gess. Showing great knowledge about this subject is to know when there is reason to belive that the number will be higher than in normal cases or when it will be lower.
The future will show us, who among us that was right .... this time.
I'm not a fanbot but where are you getting the idea that they're strapped for cash?
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir. (ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
Looks like he's got you their Kyleran, just admit it and move on don't you know using common sense and basic knowledge of the industry is a dead give away and the first sign that you are a trolling troll troller (and quite possibly a hater if you attempt to use it on more then one occasion).
(Priceless to see a Darkfall supporter preaching about realistic expectations from an indy developer in this thread)
I'm not a fanbot but where are you getting the idea that they're strapped for cash?
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir. (ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
Looks like he's got you their Kyleran, just admit it and move on don't you know using common sense and basic knowledge of the industry is a dead give away and the first sign that you are a trolling troll troller (and quite possibly a hater if you attempt to use it on more then one occasion).
(Priceless to see a Darkfall supporter preaching about realistic expectations from an indy developer in this thread)
I am just as stunned as you are to see you not perma banned after the endless lies and misinformation you posted about DF over the years.
I think if the dev's realize they are going to need to shoot for a small list of features at launch; crafting, pvp, guild/group functionality, and build it up from there the game will fine. It will probably mirror the slower growth that EVE took and that is fine.
I would consider it a success if they can get/keep enough subscribers to cover developmental costs in the first year. Hopefully the game will polish up like a gem and not a turd.
Comments
At least 10 000 people have quite good trust in MO. Seems like all the beta-access preorders sold out on the 4th.
Someone might call them having blind faith as there isn't any evidence that it will perform as well as is needed. But if it does, I'd say they have a big chance of success.
-------(not using quote to avoid that huge quote pyramid he had)--------
Actually I know quite a bit about financial statements, working on my MAcc right now and have been in the accounting profession for 8 years.
I dont feel like trying to interept there statements, its not in english btw, I was just playing a mini game with cyborg. If you want to interept there statements, go for it, the link is right there.
So grab a beer, have a bitch suck your dick and chill with the macho internet speech.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank god you're not working on your GED.
There = a place. "Look over there!"
Their = ownership of a third party. "Look at their income!"
The're = contraction of 'they are'. "The're really dumb."
I am the product of the State of California Public Education System. Ranked one of the worst in the USA. And I learned this in 3rd grade. Congrats on winning your mini-game. Now put the beer down. Stop abusing the female dog that way, and march your "macho" self back into grade school. I hope you can at least spell your numbers correctly and take greater care in your equations. (end rant)
Their chances do not look good.
It seems they are taking the Mourning, DnL approach of make their money now on pre-sales as its unlikely they will be making anything long term. To a lesser extent one could put AoC in the same category but DnL and Mourning seem mroe appropiate in terms of promises and being small indy devs.
They might prove me wrong but its never a good sign when a company tries to cash in by selling beta spots rather than showing enough confidence i their product to make money on the back end. With a long term business model based on a good reputation through word of mouth.
Assuming its a scam who do we blame? The Devs or the fanboys that hype these games to unachievable expectations and never seem to learn that perhaps they are being deceived.
74.125.47.132/translate_c
There you go got google to translate it for me.
So what do we have by looking at these very basic statements?
Well we look at there income statement, no revenue just expenses, seems logical they have nothing to sell yet they are in development stage.
Lets take a look at the balance sheet, hmm well looks like they got an equity account, their means of funding (investors) and no retained earnings, which again is logical they aren't selling anything yet.
So what did they do with that funding? Well looks like they spent most of it on FIXED assets, once again logical, need equipment, office and software your gonna use. The rest of it is cash in bank and current rec'v which is most likely a contra account for prepaid expenses.
So basically unless they get more funding from their investors they were running low on cash, and sense they have no revenue whatsoever their only source of income was from investors.... OR ding ding actual revenue sales of games to get in beta.
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir.
(ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Never claimed to be good at spelling or grammar, do you feel all powerful now? Got a 32 in verbal, not great on my GMAT and a 46 on the quantitative section which is pretty good.
Btw I'm done playing my epeen is bigger than yours on this thread and if my synopsis on "their" statements was not detailed enough for yah, well sorry dont feel like doing a research paper on it.
Yup, you ARE a product of California. It's "they're", not "the're". Where I went to school, we learned to proof-read before we turned in our papers. Just giving you a hard time. Otherwise, the post is spot-on.
@shaunathan: the fact that someone like yourself can get a college degree proves it's worth as much as a sheet of toilet paper, as far as being a mark of intelligence is concerned. Oh, and it's "interpret", not "interept". Ass.
On the matter of their vs they're on the interwebz..
Language is dictated by popular use. Popular use on the interwebz for "their" to mean "they're" makes "their" valid use of language
Well i don't mind improper grammer on the internet due to easily made mistakes unless it is impossible to read.Besides people make mistakes all the time.Now for Mortal Online's success there may be a bit of a problem but i am sure it will smooth out after awhile but it would better if they could delay the release.
Edit:Actually i don't think it will turn out very well though i mean name some other companies that develop games with those problems i do mean all of them.
Like pong i keep bouncing back and forth between games.
They have NOT been honest.
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
lol... I'm calling you ignorant !!
The game is in early beta. Starvault needed a true sense of the community, to gauge what in store for them upon release. The pre-sale did add more money in the coffers, but that only allowed them to accelerate beta and pay for Bandwidth and actual hardware for beta.
The game is going as planned and if you've ready anything or seen some of the leaks, the game is incredible and dead-on with what StarVault has promised.
Almost anyone who's actually educated themselves on the mattrer knows. Since you don't.. you're must be fabricating this, trolling or ignorant!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
lol... I'm calling you ignorant !!
The game is in early beta. Starvault needed a true sense of the community, to gauge what in store for them upon release. The pre-sale did add more money in the coffers, but that only allowed them to accelerate beta and pay for Bandwidth and actual hardware for beta.
The game is going as planned and if you've ready anything or seen some of the leaks, the game is incredible and dead-on with what StarVault has promised.
Almost anyone who's actually educated themselves on the mattrer knows. Since you don't.. you're must be fabricating this, trolling or ignorant!
*crickets*
I have to say ... to be a such a young development team they know fairly well what will work and what will not work, what will be fun in the long run.
It is also brave to not going for the massmarket ... taking that easy path following the WoW concept ... but that path can at the same time be the trap that so many other have fallen into ... like AoC and War.
No, they try to make a game they themself think is entertaining whatever all other people say ... and that is the first step to success.
I am pretty sure that Star Vault will get more than 200k subscribers within a half year after release if the combat, crafting and exploration is fun. But if they succed to create something exceptional like a really great combat and crafting system and that exploring is really exciting ... this game can get more than 1million subscribers, a year after release.
that's some strong hydro youre smoking there homie
its a real PVP game not Everquest. Best I could hope for them would be 50k to 75 k concurrent subscribers, which i'm doubting right now. they need more development time till 2010 perhaps, to have a chance.
I honestly don't think they're doing a bad job so far. They've have had their problems but they do everything they can when those problems arise to correct them. A lot of the problems you mentioned, i.e. the shop being a mess, with the site crashing and then the sales screwing up was actually not their fault. Those were issues with their first host and Global Collect respectively. When those happened the devs stayed up all night, till about 10AM their time to get things working. I'm in the beta and from what I've seen so far the devs are some of the most honest and hard working devs in the business. They communicate with the players(albeit poorly via IRC at this point and twitter) constantly and work incredibly long hours when necessary to make certain deadlines. The patches and progress made on the server since beta launch, less than 3 weeks ago, has been phenominal. They're about to release another patch today, as a matter of fact. Each patch has made huge advances. When the beta first launched it crashed something like every 3-10 minutes, at best. This past thursday I played for 6 hours straight with no crashes(but several boots for improvements by the devs). With every mistake the devs make they seem to learn and become better. My only real concern at the moment is that there are still no beta forums where people can keep track of conversations. At the moment it's kind of a pain to join an IRC channel and ask the same questions everyone else does because there's no static source of information available(except twitter). The game itself makes up for it though, I think. After playing it and experiencing the incredible world, and a level of immersion I've never felt before, I can guarantee that as long as this game launches, I will be playing it for many years.
> Einstein-DF
The MMO market have grown more than 10 times since EQ and there are alot of old players and also alot of new players that have gotten tiered about the gameplay style ala WoW, War and AoC ... I think 200k+ is not at all impossible if they deliver what they have said.
AND if they create something exceptional good ... if the game is really fun and entertaining people will like it and they can get more than a million, even thou the chanses for that isnt high ... but why not ... just think outside your tiny box.
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
So you think over 200k subscribers for MO is a fantasy?
Here is some facts ...
Ultima Online had over 225k subscribers 7 years ago for allmost 3 years ... Everquest had over 400k subscribers for over 4 years. Everquest was like UO a more "hardcore" game. Over the years millions of people have played and enjoy these two games.
I know many WoW players that are really tiered of WoW, War and AoC style ... and want something new.
Today the MMO market is like 10 times larger and the number of player that could like a game as MO with simularities to UO and some with EQ1 must be several times more today that 7 years ago. I am also certain that new MMO players would find a game as MO fun to play if they tried it.
So, you better explain for me why not MO can't get more than 200k.
FYI. Using the word fanboy doesn't count as an argument.
give me a break with the thinking outside the box routine you and all the other carebears fanboy about. I played all the FFA games that ever existed besides UO and i know what im talking about.
This is about realistic expectations, a big reason why i enjoyed Darkfall - MO will be the same way.
so stop living outside in your fantasy world and come back to earth in the little tiny box that delivers what it promises, the most we can expect from a free for all twitch fantasy combat MMORPG developed by an independent company
So you think over 200k subscribers for MO is a fantasy?
Here is some facts ...
Ultima Online had over 225k subscribers 7 years ago for allmost 3 years ... Everquest had over 400k subscribers for over 4 years. Everquest was like UO a more "hardcore" game. Over the years millions of people have played and enjoy these two games.
I know many WoW players that are really tiered of WoW, War and AoC style ... and want something new.
Today the MMO market is like 10 times larger and the number of player that could like a game as MO with simularities to UO and some with EQ1 must be several times more today that 7 years ago. I am also certain that new MMO players would find a game as MO fun to play if they tried it.
So, you better explain for me why not MO can't get more than 200k.
FYI. Using the word fanboy doesn't count as an argument.
MO can get more than 10 million subs, i'm not saying it cant. But its not realistic - realistic in my opinion is 50-75k
simple and comprehensive i hope
About UO - it was the only game of it's time besides Meridian 59. And when trammel came out Felucca became a ghost town. You tell me what MO is like, Trammel or Felucca? right
EQ was a hardcore game for carebears...simply put. It was hard but a carebear game. If you cannot understand that well i'm sorry but i will not expand this into a monologue.
Peace out
For your edification--take it as you will. Predictions tend to be wildly optimistic, though.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/193143/60-of-the-official-community-polled-think-Darkfall-will-have-over-150000-subscribers-40-think-over-250000-and-25-think-it-will-be-over-750000.html
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Yes, often it is like that ... people are in general to optimistic ... but in some cases people have also been to "pessimistic" ... and the result becomes much better than peoples highest expectations.
One example of that was clearly World Of Warcraft ... well maybe the french company Vivendi did the best gess here, because they bought Blizzard at the time that game was released.
Setting a low subscription number isent allways the correct gess. Showing great knowledge about this subject is to know when there is reason to belive that the number will be higher than in normal cases or when it will be lower.
The future will show us, who among us that was right .... this time.
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir.
(ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
Looks like he's got you their Kyleran, just admit it and move on don't you know using common sense and basic knowledge of the industry is a dead give away and the first sign that you are a trolling troll troller (and quite possibly a hater if you attempt to use it on more then one occasion).
(Priceless to see a Darkfall supporter preaching about realistic expectations from an indy developer in this thread)
Selling somewhat expensive pre-orders to raise enough cash to finish the game was my first clue.
Yea but where does it say they need money to finish the game? I'm not calling you a troll....oh wait yea I am. Provide a link or troll away
You can't really be that dense??
Blizzard or Bioware isn't gonna come out 6 months to a year before they launch a game to give out 10,000 preorders to get in beta for there games, they are going to finish there games and do internal beta's to you know actually fix problems.
It's obvious what they are doing, I'm not knocking them for it they are an indy company, they are doing what they have to do to try and complete the game.
Call me a troll if you want, I'm calling you blind.
I don't even like indie/small developers. All I'm asking for is some hard evidence. I can make up stuff too if I don't need to provide any hard evidence. So if you can't find anything on google about them being broke then just admit it, lol I'm not going to bash you (or maybe I will)
Er...what makes you think I mind being called a troll? That sort of thinking makes no sense to me. OK, to make you feel better, I'm insulted by your accusation sir.
(ROFL, Internet forums are such serious business)
Go ahead, play detective, look for "proof" if you like. It is possible to observe the actions of something and make some intelligent inferences (call them hunches, guesses or what not) especially when compared to its peers.
Major development companies do not sell semi-expensive pre-orders months (if not a year or more) in advance. That's a fact.
One Development company (Aventurine) recently sold pre-orders for their game because they were a small, indie developer who needed the money. Fact again.
MO is a small, underfunded indie developer. Fact. (compared to say, Blizzard, Bioware or even Cryptic.
MO/Starvault looks far more like DF/Aventurine than it does ToR/Bioware. Fact.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its most probably a duck.
Sure, I might be wrong, and in no place did I say they weren't going to succeed (I voted that they probably would make it). but it doesn't change the fact they are not a cash rich organization.
Even their intial beta start up problems are all characteristic of an underfunded effort. Nothing wrong with that, but it does put the project at risk, and I do risk analysis for a living.
Am I always right? Of course not, but I get pretty close on most occasions.
If you don't believe me, fine, keep looking for proof, meanwhile, I think I'll just keep "trolling"
Looks like he's got you their Kyleran, just admit it and move on don't you know using common sense and basic knowledge of the industry is a dead give away and the first sign that you are a trolling troll troller (and quite possibly a hater if you attempt to use it on more then one occasion).
(Priceless to see a Darkfall supporter preaching about realistic expectations from an indy developer in this thread)
I am just as stunned as you are to see you not perma banned after the endless lies and misinformation you posted about DF over the years.
I think if the dev's realize they are going to need to shoot for a small list of features at launch; crafting, pvp, guild/group functionality, and build it up from there the game will fine. It will probably mirror the slower growth that EVE took and that is fine.
I would consider it a success if they can get/keep enough subscribers to cover developmental costs in the first year. Hopefully the game will polish up like a gem and not a turd.
ROFLMAO, Polar look out the DF SS are on patrol.