As Mark Levin said...if, God forbid, anything bad happens at one of these townhalls, the blame falls fully on the president for fanning the flames. (paraphrasing) Name one president in your lifetime that has tried to purposly inflame people like this irresponsible president has.
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
Yes he did, because the fact that people are starting to wake up and read the constitution is blowing ALL their minds. However, he was decent, respectful, and made quite a few promises that I hope he keeps.
Now, I wish people had read the constitution back when Roosevelt was in office, because that is when the game changed, but better late than never, I guess.
Activist judge: A judge I disagree with.
What the Constitution means: Not what the Supreme Court says, but what I support.
As Mark Levin said...if, God forbid, anything bad happens at one of these townhalls, the blame falls fully on the president for fanning the flames. (paraphrasing) Name one president in your lifetime that has tried to purposly inflame people like this irresponsible president has.
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
Yes he did, because the fact that people are starting to wake up and read the constitution is blowing ALL their minds. However, he was decent, respectful, and made quite a few promises that I hope he keeps.
Now, I wish people had read the constitution back when Roosevelt was in office, because that is when the game changed, but better late than never, I guess.
Activist judge: A judge I disagree with.
What the Constitution means: Not what the Supreme Court says, but what I support.
The first part is silly because I have never said anything about activist judges, so in context, it is nonsense.
As to the second: that goes without saying. I don't look to any other person when forming my own opinions. My opinions are mine, and formed with my own mind.
You are however perfectly entitled to let others do your thinking for you.
I'm pretty sure the Founders intended we burn fossil fuels to warm the Earth, and that we kick ass in Iraq. Can you prove I'm wrong? No wait, the Founders wanted a cold earth and thought that Ethanol would help cool the earth, and that we should allow Al Qaeda to rule the ME because that would only be fair. Can you provbe I'm wrong? The Founders also supported abortion and genetically modified foods, or at least I'm sure they would if we returned to their principles.
The earth will warm whether the fuels burn or not. The question is how much do the fuels effect them. Regardless the ice caps will melt.. again.
And pretty sure they were isolationist judging from most of their disdane with the rest of the world and constant cautioning of Americans to sit back on its own soil an watch them from a distance and to not get involved. To take the Switzerland approach of neigther friend or enemy, both are equally dangerous.
As Mark Levin said...if, God forbid, anything bad happens at one of these townhalls, the blame falls fully on the president for fanning the flames. (paraphrasing) Name one president in your lifetime that has tried to purposly inflame people like this irresponsible president has.
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
I'm pretty sure the Founders intended we burn fossil fuels to warm the Earth, and that we kick ass in Iraq.
Can you prove I'm wrong?
No wait, the Founders wanted a cold earth and thought that Ethanol would help cool the earth, and that we should allow Al Qaeda to rule the ME because that would only be fair.
Can you provbe I'm wrong?
The Founders also supported abortion and genetically modified foods, or at least I'm sure they would if we returned to their principles.
Actually no one has to prove you are wrong; you are the one making assersions and not showing any reasoning for it. Show your reasoning and then you will either prove yourself right or wrong.
just show what in the constitution or the founders writing justifies those positions, and we can start.
I'm pretty sure the Founders intended we burn fossil fuels to warm the Earth, and that we kick ass in Iraq. Can you prove I'm wrong? No wait, the Founders wanted a cold earth and thought that Ethanol would help cool the earth, and that we should allow Al Qaeda to rule the ME because that would only be fair. Can you provbe I'm wrong? The Founders also supported abortion and genetically modified foods, or at least I'm sure they would if we returned to their principles.
The earth will warm whether the fuels burn or not. The question is how much do the fuels effect them. Regardless the ice caps will melt.. again.
And pretty sure they were isolationist judging from most of their disdane with the rest of the world and constant cautioning of Americans to sit back on its own soil an watch them from a distance and to not get involved. To take the Switzerland approach of neigther friend or enemy, both are equally dangerous.
I'm pretty sure America didn't run on gasoline, and there were no airplanes that could be crashed into the twin towers.
But you know, that would make zero difference to the Founders. They'd come up with exactly the same solutions regardless of the circumstances, because they weren't very smart and just weren't very adaptable fellows.
They designed a system where people elect their officials, and those officials appoint a Supreme Court, but they didn't intend for the Supreme Court to make rulings on the constitution.
Really, what SHOULD happen, is you listen to ME, and I'll tell you what the constitituion means. And if you disagree with me, I'll tell you that's what the Founders believed, and you can't prove I"m wrong.
That's the way the system is SUPPPOSED to work, because it's much more fair than voting and having Justices appointed and confirmed by elected officials.
So if you want to know what the Constitution means, just ask me, and I'll tell you what I think the Founders would want.
It was a common tactic during the elections to plant extremists in townhall debates. Its why Obama didn't want to do one since it could be done back at him. With enough of these people and debates the politician will soon fuck up and it will hit headlines. The truth is those extremists weren't extremists at all but representing the other side hoping to devalue the candidate and make people think thats a representation of the candidates constituents.
It wouldn't surprise me if pro-public plan people were planting at these townhall debates to politicize public healthcare and make people not want to oppose it due to the people on the opposing side.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
Very few people actually believe these townyellers are the only people who oppose health care, but they're the only group being heard. Shut those assholes up and people opposed to it may actually be able to be taken seriously when they voice their opinion.
There are multiple health care reform bills in congress right now. Doesn't seem like anyone is arguing specifics. There are those that fear massive government, and those that fear massive corporations. Proving one fear is justified or unjustified is not going to happen.
It seems like people are more willing to go to war than they are willing to try something new. Which is both sad and stupid beyond belief. Why trust your neighbor and try his ways when you can threaten to kill them instead right? It's not like you can vote those who support it out of office if all doesn't work out..............oh wait.
Originally posted by frodus Just one question who do you fear more the insurance company's or the Government.
This is a VERY good question probably the BEST one asked in the thread thus far, and one that should have been asked from the beginning.
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
Just one question who do you fear more the insurance company's or the Government.
This is a VERY good question probably the BEST one asked in the thread thus far, and one that should have been asked from the beginning.
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
^This
The government doesn't need to make a profit and I have an actual say in the government.
Insurance companies make money on not doing what they are paid to. That should be all the argument needed.
Insurance companies may seek profit off the health and well-being of others, which I've always argued as evil, no exceptions.. However, the Government may not seek profit, but they do what they do best, and that's cutting corners, saving money, exercising their bureaucratic professionalism with nearly no boundaries.
I don't like this reform, I think it's BS, and it's not going to work as intended, at least not with the intentions people dream-up about it.
Health Care for citizens is a serious issue, and people need to be treated across the board. I think the government has it's place in dealing with this, but they should have reduced their interventions to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions. Make them come to terms for stupid-high-costs for drugs and basic procedures. This would increase loyalty from the citizens and bring in more people getting care. Less costs, more people is better than high costs, less people.
Then, when the insurance companies are held over the fire just high enough so they maintain stability and remain as a means to get care, then the government could work on Health Care welfare programs... This all-for-nothing, all-at-once attitude is going to fail.
I've had much experience in the medical bureaucracy monster that is "Army Medical". You wouldn't believe the claims I make, that's how ridiculous it is. Threats, blackmail, forgery.. all in the name of cutting costs and keeping the "In-Patient to Out-Patient" ratio at a cost-effective and media-worthy number. This is how the government operates.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
Very few people actually believe these townyellers are the only people who oppose health care, but they're the only group being heard. Shut those assholes up and people opposed to it may actually be able to be taken seriously when they voice their opinion.
There are multiple health care reform bills in congress right now. Doesn't seem like anyone is arguing specifics. There are those that fear massive government, and those that fear massive corporations. Proving one fear is justified or unjustified is not going to happen.
It seems like people are more willing to go to war than they are willing to try something new. Which is both sad and stupid beyond belief. Why trust your neighbor and try his ways when you can threaten to kill them instead right? It's not like you can vote those who support it out of office if all doesn't work out..............oh wait.
No one opposes health care; they oppose socialism. war is one of the constitutionally designated functions of our Federal government. Medicine is not.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? Oh wait, I know...the conservative sites will write:
Pelosi says people who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are "un-American". . .or. . .Pelosi refers to opponents as "un-American". . .or. . House Speaker Nancy Pelosi attacks health care opponents as "un-American". . .or simply. . .Pelosi's "un-American" comment.
Notice where the quotation marks are located in these examples? See how it differs from what you wrote up there? Now, are you being intellectually dishonest or just gullible?
The quote (from Pelosi, not the White House, btw) is:
"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American". Link: blogs.usatoday.com
Here's how you can tell the difference between the manufactured opposition and the legitimate opposition.
The manufactured opposition will attempt to break down communication. They will shout over, or interrupt, anyone else who's trying to speak. They don't expect a response. In fact, their goal is to ensure that a response isn't allowed. This is, undoubtedly, and wholey, un-American.
The legitimate oposition will will ask a question, or make a statement, fully expecting a response. Although the conversation may be heated, and neither side willing to compromise, both views are expressed. This is quintessentially American.
The ironic part is, these representative continue to stand up there, fielding questions and statements from people who seemingly have a seething hatred of their policies, the whole time representing the beauty of our democratic system. Let me ask you a question; in your opinion, would refusing to take questions from anyone opposing health care reform be un-American?
Just one question who do you fear more the insurance company's or the Government.
This is a VERY good question probably the BEST one asked in the thread thus far, and one that should have been asked from the beginning.
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
^This
The government doesn't need to make a profit and I have an actual say in the government.
Insurance companies make money on not doing what they are paid to. That should be all the argument needed.
Governments operate by force, and shoot you if you do not pay them. Insurance companies merely refuse to give you a service if you do not pay them.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? Oh wait, I know...the conservative sites will write:
Pelosi says people who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are "un-American". . .or. . .Pelosi refers to opponents as "un-American". . .or. . House Speaker Nancy Pelosi attacks health care opponents as "un-American". . .or simply. . .Pelosi's "un-American" comment.
Notice where the quotation marks are located in these examples? See how it differs from what you wrote up there? Now, are you being intellectually dishonest or just gullible?
The quote (from Pelosi, not the White House, btw) is:
"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American". Link: blogs.usatoday.com
Here's how you can tell the difference between the manufactured opposition and the legitimate opposition.
The manufactured opposition will attempt to break down communication. They will shout over, or interrupt, anyone else who's trying to speak. They don't expect a response. In fact, their goal is to ensure that a response isn't allowed. This is, undoubtedly, and wholey, un-American.
The legitimate oposition will will ask a question, or make a statement, fully expecting a response. Although the conversation may be heated, and neither side willing to compromise, both views are expressed. This is quintessentially American.
The ironic part is, these representative continue to stand up there, fielding questions and statements from people who seemingly have a seething hatred of their policies, the whole time representing the beauty of our democratic system. Let me ask you a question; in your opinion, would refusing to take questions from anyone opposing health care reform be un-American?
You're right, I made an off-handed remark about "The opposition is being Un-American.", because I thought I remembered seeing others from the administration talking about that. Not just Nancy Pelosi herself, although she's making pretty dodgy comments that she shouldn't be making otherwise. People like her shouldn't be making battlefield comments like that, regardless.
When I find the quotes, I'll reply. If they aren't there, I apologize.
As per your question, no, it's not Un-American to refuse questions etc, what have you. It's just dodgy, and not professional of the people in the positions they hold to have behavior like that. I don't even like the terms "Patriot" or "Un-American", I think they are BS, and a cop-out. Being "Un-American" should mean treason, or an actual enemy or something.. even then it's just a stupid statement to make, especially coming from the government.
Seriously though, have we not heard enough of the "Un-American" crap for the past 8 years? Whenever someone got cornered.. they would scream to you .. "You're un-American!". I'd like the government to not act like Sean Hannity or O'Reilly, tyvm.
When the government starts taking away the rights and freedoms of Americans, you are going to see a huge backlash.
We are not a European country. It's not in our DNA. We are different and that difference goes right down to the core of America.
If people trying to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights keep up this non sense, then it is freedom loving American's duty to shove them out of the way. I will protect my freedom, no matter what it takes.
When the government starts taking away the rights and freedoms of Americans, you are going to see a huge backlash. We are not a European country. It's not in our DNA. We are different and that difference goes right down to the core of America. If people trying to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights keep up this non sense, then it is freedom loving American's duty to shove them out of the way. I will protect my freedom, no matter what it takes. Don't tread on me!
This is going to backfire horribly. If these unruly protests continue, the Blue Dog Democrats will ALL sign on to this bill out of contempt for their idiotic counterparts. These town hall meetings are a chance for those not on board with the reform to let their voices be heard. It is merely a polite gesture. The hardcore lunatics will only disservice their cause, and cause a knee jerk reaction by Indy's and Blue Dog democrats to vote for the bill regardless of whats in it. So by all means, please keep the lunatics coming. Their actions are only damaging themselves.
When the government starts taking away the rights and freedoms of Americans, you are going to see a huge backlash. We are not a European country. It's not in our DNA. We are different and that difference goes right down to the core of America. If people trying to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights keep up this non sense, then it is freedom loving American's duty to shove them out of the way. I will protect my freedom, no matter what it takes. Don't tread on me!
So all of the people who are for this system and other systems like it are not American? I'm pretty sure Americans decide how the countries "DNA" is defined. If we want to "destroy the constitution" and elect leaders who want the same, that is now the American way.
That is one massive reason I cannot stand conservatives. They think they know what Americans want and seem to completely ignore the fact that the majority of Americans elected officials with the exact opposite idea.
Rush Limbaugh needs to shut his fat face, and stop encouraging this stuff. And members from the liberal side, my side, need to realize that not everyone against health care is a raving lunatic looking for a fight, and that we should listen. Extremism from both sides is only going to hurt us.
John Mccain had this to say on his twitter: "Town hall meetings are an American tradition - we should allow everyone to express their views without disruption - even if we disagree!" He's been around for awhile, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. Listen to him.
See any conflict there?
Nope, he is encouraging the yelling , screaming, and not letting others voice their opinion. You lose priveledges when you infringe on someone elses.
I don't listen to Rush's show, so I don't know. If Limbaugh is enouraging this, it should be easy to find clips where he doing so. Evidence?
I'm interested in hearing this as well, is there some proof behind this Sabiancym, or do you just spout off whatever comes to the top of your head? I follow the news pretty closely and not even the Obama administration is claiming that Limbaugh is encouraging people to disrupt the meetings.
Like 20 million people listen to his show every day and I think he archives past shows on his website, so it should be easy for those who disagree with him to dig up all the dirt they can find
Comments
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
Yes he did, because the fact that people are starting to wake up and read the constitution is blowing ALL their minds. However, he was decent, respectful, and made quite a few promises that I hope he keeps.
Now, I wish people had read the constitution back when Roosevelt was in office, because that is when the game changed, but better late than never, I guess.
Activist judge: A judge I disagree with.
What the Constitution means: Not what the Supreme Court says, but what I support.
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
Yes he did, because the fact that people are starting to wake up and read the constitution is blowing ALL their minds. However, he was decent, respectful, and made quite a few promises that I hope he keeps.
Now, I wish people had read the constitution back when Roosevelt was in office, because that is when the game changed, but better late than never, I guess.
Activist judge: A judge I disagree with.
What the Constitution means: Not what the Supreme Court says, but what I support.
The first part is silly because I have never said anything about activist judges, so in context, it is nonsense.
As to the second: that goes without saying. I don't look to any other person when forming my own opinions. My opinions are mine, and formed with my own mind.
You are however perfectly entitled to let others do your thinking for you.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The earth will warm whether the fuels burn or not. The question is how much do the fuels effect them. Regardless the ice caps will melt.. again.
And pretty sure they were isolationist judging from most of their disdane with the rest of the world and constant cautioning of Americans to sit back on its own soil an watch them from a distance and to not get involved. To take the Switzerland approach of neigther friend or enemy, both are equally dangerous.
Examples?
"get in their face!"
"We will punch back twice as hard!"
"we don't won't to deal with those who caused the mess so get out of the way"
Note how easy it is to calm these people down. Specter just held a hearing, and people were visibly upset. This time he wasn't a dummy: he treated his constituents with respect, he listened, said nothing stupid, and the meeting went very well.
If the rest of them do this, things will go better.
Yeah,I saw the Spector meeting...the one thing that got about it was the lady that ask Spector what he was going to do about returning the country what the founders had intended.He looked dumm founded.
I'm pretty sure the Founders intended we burn fossil fuels to warm the Earth, and that we kick ass in Iraq.
Can you prove I'm wrong?
No wait, the Founders wanted a cold earth and thought that Ethanol would help cool the earth, and that we should allow Al Qaeda to rule the ME because that would only be fair.
Can you provbe I'm wrong?
The Founders also supported abortion and genetically modified foods, or at least I'm sure they would if we returned to their principles.
Actually no one has to prove you are wrong; you are the one making assersions and not showing any reasoning for it. Show your reasoning and then you will either prove yourself right or wrong.
just show what in the constitution or the founders writing justifies those positions, and we can start.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The earth will warm whether the fuels burn or not. The question is how much do the fuels effect them. Regardless the ice caps will melt.. again.
And pretty sure they were isolationist judging from most of their disdane with the rest of the world and constant cautioning of Americans to sit back on its own soil an watch them from a distance and to not get involved. To take the Switzerland approach of neigther friend or enemy, both are equally dangerous.
I'm pretty sure America didn't run on gasoline, and there were no airplanes that could be crashed into the twin towers.
But you know, that would make zero difference to the Founders. They'd come up with exactly the same solutions regardless of the circumstances, because they weren't very smart and just weren't very adaptable fellows.
They designed a system where people elect their officials, and those officials appoint a Supreme Court, but they didn't intend for the Supreme Court to make rulings on the constitution.
Really, what SHOULD happen, is you listen to ME, and I'll tell you what the constitituion means. And if you disagree with me, I'll tell you that's what the Founders believed, and you can't prove I"m wrong.
That's the way the system is SUPPPOSED to work, because it's much more fair than voting and having Justices appointed and confirmed by elected officials.
So if you want to know what the Constitution means, just ask me, and I'll tell you what I think the Founders would want.
It was a common tactic during the elections to plant extremists in townhall debates. Its why Obama didn't want to do one since it could be done back at him. With enough of these people and debates the politician will soon fuck up and it will hit headlines. The truth is those extremists weren't extremists at all but representing the other side hoping to devalue the candidate and make people think thats a representation of the candidates constituents.
It wouldn't surprise me if pro-public plan people were planting at these townhall debates to politicize public healthcare and make people not want to oppose it due to the people on the opposing side.
All I'm going to say is, if you think that the only opposition to the current Health Care Reform plan are these "townyellers", and you use that for your basis of arguments, then you watch too much TV and are a stupid f***. Not calling out people in this discussion directly, just a general statement.. though there may be a few here.
You're no better than the right-wing pundits debasing an entire demographic based on the actions of a few people. The tables have turned and the left-wing media and pundits are using the same exact methods. The MSM is total BS, all they do is fan the flames for ratings or special interests, or something else, who knows.
People have legitimate concerns with this reform, and they have absolutely no voice, whatsoever. The White House is now saying that, "People who oppose or attack Health Care Reform are Un-American." Gee... that rings a memory bell doesn't it? 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan.. hmm, sure does ring a bell.
As for the OP... I honestly believe it will be the other way around. The police or security will taser or assault, or heaven forbid.. fire on someone. Though I don't think it will ever come to violence to be honest, not at these town halls. Maybe for a street-protest based on broader issues.
Very few people actually believe these townyellers are the only people who oppose health care, but they're the only group being heard. Shut those assholes up and people opposed to it may actually be able to be taken seriously when they voice their opinion.
There are multiple health care reform bills in congress right now. Doesn't seem like anyone is arguing specifics. There are those that fear massive government, and those that fear massive corporations. Proving one fear is justified or unjustified is not going to happen.
It seems like people are more willing to go to war than they are willing to try something new. Which is both sad and stupid beyond belief. Why trust your neighbor and try his ways when you can threaten to kill them instead right? It's not like you can vote those who support it out of office if all doesn't work out..............oh wait.
The Official God FAQ
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
^This
The government doesn't need to make a profit and I have an actual say in the government.
Insurance companies make money on not doing what they are paid to. That should be all the argument needed.
The Official God FAQ
Insurance companies may seek profit off the health and well-being of others, which I've always argued as evil, no exceptions.. However, the Government may not seek profit, but they do what they do best, and that's cutting corners, saving money, exercising their bureaucratic professionalism with nearly no boundaries.
I don't like this reform, I think it's BS, and it's not going to work as intended, at least not with the intentions people dream-up about it.
Health Care for citizens is a serious issue, and people need to be treated across the board. I think the government has it's place in dealing with this, but they should have reduced their interventions to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions. Make them come to terms for stupid-high-costs for drugs and basic procedures. This would increase loyalty from the citizens and bring in more people getting care. Less costs, more people is better than high costs, less people.
Then, when the insurance companies are held over the fire just high enough so they maintain stability and remain as a means to get care, then the government could work on Health Care welfare programs... This all-for-nothing, all-at-once attitude is going to fail.
I've had much experience in the medical bureaucracy monster that is "Army Medical". You wouldn't believe the claims I make, that's how ridiculous it is. Threats, blackmail, forgery.. all in the name of cutting costs and keeping the "In-Patient to Out-Patient" ratio at a cost-effective and media-worthy number. This is how the government operates.
Very few people actually believe these townyellers are the only people who oppose health care, but they're the only group being heard. Shut those assholes up and people opposed to it may actually be able to be taken seriously when they voice their opinion.
There are multiple health care reform bills in congress right now. Doesn't seem like anyone is arguing specifics. There are those that fear massive government, and those that fear massive corporations. Proving one fear is justified or unjustified is not going to happen.
It seems like people are more willing to go to war than they are willing to try something new. Which is both sad and stupid beyond belief. Why trust your neighbor and try his ways when you can threaten to kill them instead right? It's not like you can vote those who support it out of office if all doesn't work out..............oh wait.
No one opposes health care; they oppose socialism. war is one of the constitutionally designated functions of our Federal government. Medicine is not.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Where do you people come up with this stuff? Oh wait, I know...the conservative sites will write:
Notice where the quotation marks are located in these examples? See how it differs from what you wrote up there? Now, are you being intellectually dishonest or just gullible?
The quote (from Pelosi, not the White House, btw) is:
Here's how you can tell the difference between the manufactured opposition and the legitimate opposition.
The ironic part is, these representative continue to stand up there, fielding questions and statements from people who seemingly have a seething hatred of their policies, the whole time representing the beauty of our democratic system. Let me ask you a question; in your opinion, would refusing to take questions from anyone opposing health care reform be un-American?
It would be refreshing to see how all the people posting in this thread would answer it, because to me, it speaks to the heart of the two key sides in this whole debate: Insurance companies vs the government.
For the record, anyone placing a profit on health and standing to BENEFIT anytime they DON'T have to pay a claim is not to be trusted. The insurance companies' whole existence and livelihood is based on the odds that they will never have to pay anyone when they submit a claim. If they had to pay everyone each time they got sick that paid premiums, they'd go out of business yesterday, yet they are making record profits so what does that tell you? So insurance companies by default only profit or do well if you don't ever get paid, and its not good for them to have to cover sick people.
The government has no such interest at all in that. They simply pay whenever your doctor submits the forms: ala Social Security for seniors or Veteran's Hospitals for veterans.
Now ask seniors and veterans how fast we should get rid of their socialized care because the government can't be trusted, and force them to get private insurance coverage, and see how fast you get kicked out of office. These townyellers simply are being lied to and have no idea they are being played for fools. They trust organizations that take millions from insurance medical concerns and flat out lie to them, saying the GOVERNMENT wants them to go broke and die.
^This
The government doesn't need to make a profit and I have an actual say in the government.
Insurance companies make money on not doing what they are paid to. That should be all the argument needed.
Governments operate by force, and shoot you if you do not pay them. Insurance companies merely refuse to give you a service if you do not pay them.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I doubt if Rush Limbaugh had much to do with all the fanatical Code Pink demonstrations, or other similar ones from the far left.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? Oh wait, I know...the conservative sites will write:
Notice where the quotation marks are located in these examples? See how it differs from what you wrote up there? Now, are you being intellectually dishonest or just gullible?
The quote (from Pelosi, not the White House, btw) is:
Here's how you can tell the difference between the manufactured opposition and the legitimate opposition.
The ironic part is, these representative continue to stand up there, fielding questions and statements from people who seemingly have a seething hatred of their policies, the whole time representing the beauty of our democratic system. Let me ask you a question; in your opinion, would refusing to take questions from anyone opposing health care reform be un-American?
You're right, I made an off-handed remark about "The opposition is being Un-American.", because I thought I remembered seeing others from the administration talking about that. Not just Nancy Pelosi herself, although she's making pretty dodgy comments that she shouldn't be making otherwise. People like her shouldn't be making battlefield comments like that, regardless.
When I find the quotes, I'll reply. If they aren't there, I apologize.
As per your question, no, it's not Un-American to refuse questions etc, what have you. It's just dodgy, and not professional of the people in the positions they hold to have behavior like that. I don't even like the terms "Patriot" or "Un-American", I think they are BS, and a cop-out. Being "Un-American" should mean treason, or an actual enemy or something.. even then it's just a stupid statement to make, especially coming from the government.
Seriously though, have we not heard enough of the "Un-American" crap for the past 8 years? Whenever someone got cornered.. they would scream to you .. "You're un-American!". I'd like the government to not act like Sean Hannity or O'Reilly, tyvm.
Man.. I was changing channels this morning and there was CNN with some big story.
I was curious.
Its like a marathon of angry people yelling at angry people...
So ofcourse, I thought of the MMORPG forums and ofcourse, without fail its already here
You guys will NEVER live this down :P lol
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I say beat them down till they willing submit to Doom.
When the government starts taking away the rights and freedoms of Americans, you are going to see a huge backlash.
We are not a European country. It's not in our DNA. We are different and that difference goes right down to the core of America.
If people trying to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights keep up this non sense, then it is freedom loving American's duty to shove them out of the way. I will protect my freedom, no matter what it takes.
Don't tread on me!
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Amen.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Very good point.
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This is going to backfire horribly. If these unruly protests continue, the Blue Dog Democrats will ALL sign on to this bill out of contempt for their idiotic counterparts. These town hall meetings are a chance for those not on board with the reform to let their voices be heard. It is merely a polite gesture. The hardcore lunatics will only disservice their cause, and cause a knee jerk reaction by Indy's and Blue Dog democrats to vote for the bill regardless of whats in it. So by all means, please keep the lunatics coming. Their actions are only damaging themselves.
Ignore them and they'll go away.
So all of the people who are for this system and other systems like it are not American? I'm pretty sure Americans decide how the countries "DNA" is defined. If we want to "destroy the constitution" and elect leaders who want the same, that is now the American way.
That is one massive reason I cannot stand conservatives. They think they know what Americans want and seem to completely ignore the fact that the majority of Americans elected officials with the exact opposite idea.
It's not the 50's. American values have changed.
The Official God FAQ
See any conflict there?
Nope, he is encouraging the yelling , screaming, and not letting others voice their opinion. You lose priveledges when you infringe on someone elses.
I don't listen to Rush's show, so I don't know. If Limbaugh is enouraging this, it should be easy to find clips where he doing so. Evidence?
I'm interested in hearing this as well, is there some proof behind this Sabiancym, or do you just spout off whatever comes to the top of your head? I follow the news pretty closely and not even the Obama administration is claiming that Limbaugh is encouraging people to disrupt the meetings.
Like 20 million people listen to his show every day and I think he archives past shows on his website, so it should be easy for those who disagree with him to dig up all the dirt they can find