Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Originally posted by kimmar Then move to France. If that's what it takes to keep you from using the federal government to push your ideas on others, then I'll buy you the plane ticket.
Nope I won't have to, because pretty soon we might have the same thing here or something similar. You should start looking at other countries to go to yourself.
So that's basically what it boils down to. You can't successfully control your life and want to depend on the federal government, so you think everyone should be just as pathetic as you.
They want t drag the rest of the world down into their repugnant parisitic system.
Exactly! That's usually the way it works in life. Instead of trying to pull themselves up, they look at successful people and bitterly try to destroy them.
All I want is to be able to make my own decisions. But everywhere I turn these days there are obstacles in the way. And more and more people who think it's okay to push their way into other folks lives and decision making process.
Is it so hard for them to understand leave other people alone? We don't want those jerks making decisions for us. I'm quite confident in my own authority over my life. I don't want the federal governments authority over me.
If I need help I will turn to my community, and if anyone in my community needs help they can turn to me. But these big government radicals are making that very hard on us. All they want to do is steal our money through taxation and make other important life decisions for us.
Originally posted by kimmar Really? Then how did my middle class mom just get her cancer treated so quickly? She's anything other than rich. And she's not using Medicare either. She has her own insurance policy that she pays for out of her own pocket. The day after her doctor found her cancer she had begun her treatment. And she's doing just fine now, not even bankrupt. I found out last month that I needed an ACL for my knee. Guess when I had my surgery and it was fixed. 2 days later!!! Now I'm doing almost 100% thanks to my post op physical therapy. And my family is not bankrupt either. And we are all kinds of middle class.
Yes because you and your mom have insurance, which is good. So what happens to someone who say, lost their job, and then he gets cancer. Is he to be expected to pay for it out of pocket?Or should he just wither up and die?
Or how about the people who go to emergency rooms and end up stiffing them on the bill? It happens so much that it's ridiculous, especially here in California (which I'm sure you already know.) Maybe if there's a public option for health insurance, that wouldn't happen and it would lower the costs of private insurance.
I'm all for having Universal Health care as an option. If you like your insurance you have now, great. Keep it. But I would like a public option to have to fall back on, in case something bad happens (if I lost my job, etc.)
None of this gives anyone the right to point a gun to people's heads an force them to be enslaved to their fellow man. If you believe people should help one another, no one is stopping you. Socialism is not the answer.
Originally posted by aeroplane22 Insurance companies may seek profit off the health and well-being of others, which I've always argued as evil, no exceptions.. However, the Government may not seek profit, but they do what they do best, and that's cutting corners, saving money, exercising their bureaucratic professionalism with nearly no boundaries.I don't like this reform, I think it's BS, and it's not going to work as intended, at least not with the intentions people dream-up about it.Health Care for citizens is a serious issue, and people need to be treated across the board. I think the government has it's place in dealing with this, but they should have reduced their interventions to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions. Make them come to terms for stupid-high-costs for drugs and basic procedures. This would increase loyalty from the citizens and bring in more people getting care. Less costs, more people is better than high costs, less people.Then, when the insurance companies are held over the fire just high enough so they maintain stability and remain as a means to get care, then the government could work on Health Care welfare programs... This all-for-nothing, all-at-once attitude is going to fail.I've had much experience in the medical bureaucracy monster that is "Army Medical". You wouldn't believe the claims I make, that's how ridiculous it is. Threats, blackmail, forgery.. all in the name of cutting costs and keeping the "In-Patient to Out-Patient" ratio at a cost-effective and media-worthy number. This is how the government operates.
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
Originally posted by porgie So that's basically what it boils down to. You can't successfully control your life and want to depend on the federal government, so you think everyone should be just as pathetic as you.
Oh very nice, throw some insults. You don't know me. Believe it or not, I have health insurance as provided by my job. But I think our health is much too important to depend on huge corporations that only care about PROFIT. That's my main concern.
Listen "Porgie", I don't depend on the Federal government for anything. I'm not on any kind of government aid, and I hope I never have to be. But if I had to one day, I would be glad it was there.The same goes for health insurance.
Call me pathetic all you want, it doesn't bother me. You know why? Because you're an ugly little douche bag (at least, according to your avatar.) What happened to your face, seriously? If you were born like that then I apologize.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
Originally posted by kimmar Originally posted by John.A.Zoid Originally posted by Fishermage Originally posted by popinjay All you need to know about healthcare and who really wants it for Americans is this:
Everytime the Republicans have either held the presidency or held Congress, they have NEVER introduced a measure to streamline or propose a plan to help cover Americans with health insurance. Ever. No Republican has ever submitted even a bill that asks for a national healthcare policy of any type where Americans can get covered.
Everytime a major healthcare plan in America has been introduced to the American people in this century, it was always done by a Democrat. From Social Security with FDR, to Clinton's plan, to Obama's plan. Every president that has shown even the slightest interest in keeping Americans with some type of BASIC healthcare rights in this nation since inception has been a "liberal". Think about that. The only party that really pushed for Americans to be covered was Democrats.
Reagan, Both Bushes, Ford, Nixon, etc etc etc... have no shown no interest in getting Americans national health coverage. They shoot it down when they aren't in power, and when they ARE in power, they don't work on it at all, because they have nothing to gain and everything to lose (insurance lobby money)
So the next time you hear a Republican say "Yeah, we want healthcare for all Americans, just not the kind the liberals are proposing", ask them about their record and what they've written or supported as an alternative. Ask them what kind of healthcare for Americans do they they they should get. All they'll say is "no", period.
You'll find they have never had any plans because it wasn't in the best interest of the insurance companies most Republicans get support from.
Where in the constitution is it stated that it is the Federal Government's job to take tax money from some Americans to pay for the health care of other Americans? If you believe in our form of government, the only reasonable response to federal Government Health Care is "no."
Are you that selfish that you don't want other Americans to live because they're too poor to pay for it? I pay Taxes which go towards Free Health Care in the UK and guess what whenever I need something in return I can go and I'm not charged a big bill. These taxes are tiny and the wages and prices all change to them so it'll have no effect on your life. You'll just be helping out other Americans. Many other countries in the World use this system like Canada and France and the UK and it works great. You're Taxed for the schools and the roads and the Global Warming (even tho theres no hard evidence that we cause it) and you're taxed for the firemen and the Policemen........... why not Health Care? So you'll get it for free like the Police and the rest of them and other people can have a better life. No, I'm so selfish that I want my money to be kept by me so that I can keep it in my community to help out others. I do not want it sent to an inefficient federal government. And I especially don't want it going somewhere by force. And again, NOTHING is free.
Ummm.. a national healthplan instituted by the American government with your taxes WILL help people in your community, by making sure your local hospitals don't go bust because of unpaid medical bills of the uninsured.
You get to get fully functioning hospitals and healthier neighbors in your community by the strength of pooling your taxes with other taxes dollars. That's how the government's of Canada, Mexico and other international countries get American drugmakers to lower their costs substantially. The U.S. is the only place where were are paying full price of drugs, because it's all run by capitalist price fixing. There IS no competition in the drug market.
If the goverment has billions, they can buy drugs cheaper than any single health insurer. Why do you think Americans skip North or South of the border for prescriptions and smuggle them back? They have no buying power here, that's why. Heck, even in CUBA of all places pharmaceutical companies can't charge an arm and a leg.
What is your point again about helping your fellow commuinity people?
Insurance companies may seek profit off the health and well-being of others, which I've always argued as evil, no exceptions.. However, the Government may not seek profit, but they do what they do best, and that's cutting corners, saving money, exercising their bureaucratic professionalism with nearly no boundaries.
I don't like this reform, I think it's BS, and it's not going to work as intended, at least not with the intentions people dream-up about it. Health Care for citizens is a serious issue, and people need to be treated across the board. I think the government has it's place in dealing with this, but they should have reduced their interventions to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions. Make them come to terms for stupid-high-costs for drugs and basic procedures. This would increase loyalty from the citizens and bring in more people getting care. Less costs, more people is better than high costs, less people. Then, when the insurance companies are held over the fire just high enough so they maintain stability and remain as a means to get care, then the government could work on Health Care welfare programs... This all-for-nothing, all-at-once attitude is going to fail. I've had much experience in the medical bureaucracy monster that is "Army Medical". You wouldn't believe the claims I make, that's how ridiculous it is. Threats, blackmail, forgery.. all in the name of cutting costs and keeping the "In-Patient to Out-Patient" ratio at a cost-effective and media-worthy number. This is how the government operates.
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
... and later in the sentence you highlighted, I go on to say "I've always argued it as evil." Profiting-off-the-sick = bad, that is how I feel about the insurance companies.
They do seek a profit. I never said.. "Maybe they do, maybe they don't." You're cherry picking my statement. I said... "They may seek profit but the government.. " etc. Kind of like, "He may have murdered that one girl, but the other guy murdered three people.." Does that remark debate the first man's innocence?
My reply furthers beyond what you highlighted in the means that I feel a government bureaucracy can be much worse, of which I have experienced a lot of, to my great disliking. One evil + another evil does not = grand-benevolence.
Further in my reply:
"...to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions."
Does it look like I'm supporting the insurance companies in any way? I f-ing hate the insurance companies, I want them held over the fire. However, this current reform bill needs assessment, in my opinion. It is an ' all-for-nothing , going-broke ' crap-shoot. There is no guarantee that costs will go down, there is no guarantee that people will be guaranteed coverage. You also have to pay either way, unless you qualify for "poor-assistance". I haven't read that part of the bill, but I will look for it tonight on how they decide who qualifies for free care and who doesn't. The way it's proposed is that you pay either way or you receive fines. That is not universal, it is a mandated coverage system based on the non-guarantee that costs will go down. Need I say that pharmaceutical companies are shelling out tons of cash to support the current proposal? Who-da-thunkit?!
Originally posted by porgie So that's basically what it boils down to. You can't successfully control your life and want to depend on the federal government, so you think everyone should be just as pathetic as you.
Oh very nice, throw some insults. You don't know me. Believe it or not, I have health insurance as provided by my job. But I think our health is much too important to depend on huge corporations that only care about PROFIT. That's my main concern.
Listen "Porgie", I don't depend on the Federal government for anything. I'm not on any kind of government aid, and I hope I never have to be. But if I had to one day, I would be glad it was there.The same goes for health insurance.
Call me pathetic all you want, it doesn't bother me. You know why? Because you're an ugly little douche bag (at least, according to your avatar.) What happened to your face, seriously? If you were born like that then I apologize.
If you consider "pathetic" an insult, then look at the way you are viewing your community and the people in it. Aren't you calling them pathetic? I think so. If you think that no community can pull together to take care of it's own and we have to rely on some huge government agency that gets it's money from stealing from the worker in this nation, then who's really throwing the word pathetic around.
I believe in the American people. I believe we are able to take care of each other if given the chance. I do not believe in relying on the federal government to take care of us. I don't trust them nor do I like the way they forcefully take away from me and my family and neighbors.
I read the other day where Gnomexxx said the church that his family attends helps people out with medical bills when needed. That is awesome. It forms a cohesiveness in the community that no federal government can provide. Actually, the federal government can do nothing but destroy that cohesiveness with its intrusion and manipulation. I still remember that post because it stuck with me to show that community efforts can work and they do work.
There are plenty of private organizations that work very efficiently to help others. Tell the federal government they can go to hell and then people can start putting that tax money that used to be stolen into those private organizations through donations and charitable contributions.
But hey, if what I said offends you then so be it. I am always going to think of someone who depends on the federal government over their community as pathetic. And I especially consider someone who want to use the federal government to take away my freedoms and liberties as pathetic. Even more so, I consider them my enemy. I don't appreciate people who support something that comes to me with guns to force me to bow to their will. How you can't see that is wrong is beyond me.
All you need to know about healthcare and who really wants it for Americans is this:
Everytime the Republicans have either held the presidency or held Congress, they have NEVER introduced a measure to streamline or propose a plan to help cover Americans with health insurance. Ever. No Republican has ever submitted even a bill that asks for a national healthcare policy of any type where Americans can get covered.
Everytime a major healthcare plan in America has been introduced to the American people in this century, it was always done by a Democrat. From Social Security with FDR, to Clinton's plan, to Obama's plan. Every president that has shown even the slightest interest in keeping Americans with some type of BASIC healthcare rights in this nation since inception has been a "liberal". Think about that. The only party that really pushed for Americans to be covered was Democrats.
Reagan, Both Bushes, Ford, Nixon, etc etc etc... have no shown no interest in getting Americans national health coverage. They shoot it down when they aren't in power, and when they ARE in power, they don't work on it at all, because they have nothing to gain and everything to lose (insurance lobby money)
So the next time you hear a Republican say "Yeah, we want healthcare for all Americans, just not the kind the liberals are proposing", ask them about their record and what they've written or supported as an alternative. Ask them what kind of healthcare for Americans do they they they should get. All they'll say is "no", period.
You'll find they have never had any plans because it wasn't in the best interest of the insurance companies most Republicans get support from.
Where in the constitution is it stated that it is the Federal Government's job to take tax money from some Americans to pay for the health care of other Americans?
If you believe in our form of government, the only reasonable response to federal Government Health Care is "no."
Are you that selfish that you don't want other Americans to live because they're too poor to pay for it? I pay Taxes which go towards Free Health Care in the UK and guess what whenever I need something in return I can go and I'm not charged a big bill. These taxes are tiny and the wages and prices all change to them so it'll have no effect on your life. You'll just be helping out other Americans. Many other countries in the World use this system like Canada and France and the UK and it works great.
You're Taxed for the schools and the roads and the Global Warming (even tho theres no hard evidence that we cause it) and you're taxed for the firemen and the Policemen........... why not Health Care? So you'll get it for free like the Police and the rest of them and other people can have a better life.
No, I'm so selfish that I want my money to be kept by me so that I can keep it in my community to help out others. I do not want it sent to an inefficient federal government. And I especially don't want it going somewhere by force.
And again, NOTHING is free.
Ummm.. a national healthplan instituted by the American government with your taxes WILL help people in your community, by making sure your local hospitals don't go bust because of unpaid medical bills of the uninsured.
You get to get fully functioning hospitals and healthier neighbors in your community by the strength of pooling your taxes with other taxes dollars. That's how the government's of Canada, Mexico and other international countries get American drugmakers to lower their costs substantially. The U.S. is the only place where were are paying full price of drugs, because it's all run by capitalist price fixing. There IS no competition in the drug market.
If the goverment has billions, they can buy drugs cheaper than any single health insurer. Why do you think Americans skip North or South of the border for prescriptions and smuggle them back? They have no buying power here, that's why. Heck, even in CUBA of all places pharmaceutical companies can't charge an arm and a leg.
What is your point again about helping your fellow commuinity people?
Wow you really twisted what she said around.
You totally ignored that inefficient part she wrote didn't you. And you conveniently ignored the by force part too.
Now, how is someone coming and taking our money by force to put it into an inefficient system helping our community again? How is it that you contend it is the best method?
Insurance companies may seek profit off the health and well-being of others, which I've always argued as evil, no exceptions.. However, the Government may not seek profit, but they do what they do best, and that's cutting corners, saving money, exercising their bureaucratic professionalism with nearly no boundaries.
I don't like this reform, I think it's BS, and it's not going to work as intended, at least not with the intentions people dream-up about it. Health Care for citizens is a serious issue, and people need to be treated across the board. I think the government has it's place in dealing with this, but they should have reduced their interventions to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions. Make them come to terms for stupid-high-costs for drugs and basic procedures. This would increase loyalty from the citizens and bring in more people getting care. Less costs, more people is better than high costs, less people. Then, when the insurance companies are held over the fire just high enough so they maintain stability and remain as a means to get care, then the government could work on Health Care welfare programs... This all-for-nothing, all-at-once attitude is going to fail. I've had much experience in the medical bureaucracy monster that is "Army Medical". You wouldn't believe the claims I make, that's how ridiculous it is. Threats, blackmail, forgery.. all in the name of cutting costs and keeping the "In-Patient to Out-Patient" ratio at a cost-effective and media-worthy number. This is how the government operates.
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
Sorry I will take profit and voluntarism over guns and parisitism any day.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
I think the government program will work much like health care for workman's compensation patients. I was in the worker's compensation hell for my health care well over a year before my back surgery was finally given the ok to have surgery. This is what happens when government gets involved with your health care. If you think you will have better health care I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Oh and finally after four surgeries and three doctors two of which were not my choice I am somewhat fixed so get ready for the great healthcare. They decide who you see and what treatment you get not the supervising doctor he needs permission for everything so let's all enjoy the great healthcare we deserve. You kids live in fanasy land if you think the government will give you good timely healthcare I have lived the system for sometime now it's not that great.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
My point is, here all of those people would get treatment right away. None of them would have to wait and suffer. And their doctors would get right to work on them.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
I think the government program will work much like health care for workman's compensation patients. I was in the worker's compensation hell for my health care well over a year before my back surgery was finally given the ok to have surgery. This is what happens when government gets involved with your health care. If you think you will have better health care I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Oh and finally after four surgeries and three doctors two of which were not my choice I am somewhat fixed so get ready for the great healthcare. They decide who you see and what treatment you get not the supervising doctor he needs permission for everything so let's all enjoy the great healthcare we deserve. You kids live in fanasy land if you think the government will give you good timely healthcare I have lived the system for sometime now it's not that great.
I am sorry to hear that story. I understand how debilitating back pain can be.
You're story rings true though. You are absolutely right.
Really? Then how did my middle class mom just get her cancer treated so quickly? She's anything other than rich. And she's not using Medicare either. She has her own insurance policy that she pays for out of her own pocket. The day after her doctor found her cancer she had begun her treatment. And she's doing just fine now, not even bankrupt. I found out last month that I needed an ACL for my knee. Guess when I had my surgery and it was fixed. 2 days later!!! Now I'm doing almost 100% thanks to my post op physical therapy. And my family is not bankrupt either. And we are all kinds of middle class.
I am really glad your mother's cancer was treated and her insurance company paid up. That is really great and I've heard that some insurance companies do that no problem with some patients.
I will say this though... I honestly hope your mother is ALL cured of the cancer, that they got every single bit out. Because if they didn't and she has a relapse, her premiums are going to go up (if they haven't raised them on her already). You know why? She's now considered a "risk", she's not longer profitable. I'm sure what she paid into the plan was peanuts to what they paid to fix her. So now they are operating in the red with her. They have some actuarian right now pouring over her chart and crunching numbers and they can raise her rates to some crazy number and say she has to pay or they drop her.
If she can afford it, cool. If she can't afford higher rates she gets dropped like a hot potato. The minute she gets dropped, guess what?
No other private insurance company is going to cover her because of a pre-existing condition that's likely to occur, or they are going to charge her even MORE than her old company. That's just the way they do business and it's legal. It's like if you have car insurance and someone hits you; it's not your fault but if it happens a few times, your rates going up. If you refuse to pay the new rate, you're toast. And when you reveal to the next company "Yeah, I had two/three accidents but none of them are my fault. I'm just a magnet", they don't want to hear that. Rates going up, period.
I am not sure you understand what this whole thing is about. Obama wants to make it illegal for private companies to do that to your mom or anyone else. If they can't afford to pay like your mom if she now pays double, the government will say "Don't worry about your old cancer coming back. If it does, we'll pay for it and you as an American citizen don't have to pay EXTRA taxes for it because YOU unlucklily got the cancer again."
Please stop being so callous about this and think about what would happen if you, your mom or your knee recurred in this instance, because people are going through this as you type your response.
Really? Then how did my middle class mom just get her cancer treated so quickly? She's anything other than rich. And she's not using Medicare either. She has her own insurance policy that she pays for out of her own pocket. The day after her doctor found her cancer she had begun her treatment. And she's doing just fine now, not even bankrupt.
I found out last month that I needed an ACL for my knee. Guess when I had my surgery and it was fixed. 2 days later!!! Now I'm doing almost 100% thanks to my post op physical therapy. And my family is not bankrupt either. And we are all kinds of middle class.
I am really glad your mother's cancer was treated and her insurance company paid up. That is really great and I've heard that some insurance companies do that no problem with some patients.
I will say this though... I honestly hope your mother is ALL cured of the cancer, that they got every single bit out. Because if they didn't and she has a relapse, her premiums are going to go up (if they haven't raised them on her already). You know why? She's now considered a "risk", she's not longer profitable. I'm sure what she paid into the plan was peanuts to what they paid to fix her. So now they are operating in the red with her. They have some actuarian right now pouring over her chart and crunching numbers and they can raise her rates to some crazy number and say she has to pay or they drop her.
If she can afford it, cool. If she can't afford higher rates she gets dropped like a hot potato. The minute she gets dropped, guess what?
No other private insurance company is going to cover her because of a pre-existing condition that's likely to occur, or they are going to charge her even MORE than her old company. That's just the way they do business and it's legal. It's like if you have car insurance and someone hits you; it's not your fault but if it happens a few times, your rates going up. If you refuse to pay the new rate, you're toast. And when you reveal to the next company "Yeah, I had two/three accidents but none of them are my fault. I'm just a magnet", they don't want to hear that. Rates going up, period.
I am not sure you understand what this whole thing is about. Obama wants to make it illegal for private companies to do that to your mom or anyone else. If they can't afford to pay like your mom if she now pays double, the government will say "Don't worry about your old cancer coming back. If it does, we'll pay for it and you as an American citizen don't have to pay EXTRA taxes for it because YOU unlucklily got the cancer again."
Please stop being so callous about this and think about what would happen if you, your mom or your knee recurred in this instance, because people are going through this as you type your response.
The people who want to take away the freedom of others for some socalist dream are the callous ones. If you believe peole should be helped, get to work. You have no right to impose your will on others. The force of the government is not the answer, love is.
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
lol...
My god no wonder you guys have problems.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
lol...
My god no wonder you guys have problems.
I don't agree with everything Fishermage says, but are you seriously going to argue that the government doesn't use force to do what it wants?
Did you know that paying taxes is voluntary? It's only voluntary until the IRS sends in it's armed enforcement team.. well technically it's still voluntary even then, but good luck choosing that route.
Wow you really twisted what she said around. You totally ignored that inefficient part she wrote didn't you. And you conveniently ignored the by force part too. Now, how is someone coming and taking our money by force to put it into an inefficient system helping our community again? How is it that you contend it is the best method?
Nothing twisted, you read it wrong.
I address what I like as you do in posts. Sometimes I prefer to type less and don't address things which don't need addressing.
No one is "coming and taking your money by force". You've been paying taxes every year I assume and not working under the table. This just puts where the tax money goes in a different place from where it was before. The politicians all claim they aren't going to vote for it unless its fully funded and not deficited. You aren't getting "robbed", lol. You money is and always was there in Washington, so I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
I explained it already in my other post how it helps "your" community. Cheaper drugs for taxpayers, instead of them having to break the law and smuggle them in now and OTHER countries getting the money from that sale, not the U.S. If a citizen buys an inhaler from Mexico, guess who's government gets that money? Right, NOT the U.S. lol. The government can buy in bulk but it can't do it now, because there's no healthcare.
Local and state hospitals don't have to send bills to insurance companies for UNINSURED people who need ACLs or cancer treatment. The insurance companies then don't raise the rates on policy holders to make up the difference, like they do right now, lol. Hospitals stay solvent because the government guarantees payment and doctors don't have to worry about huge malpractice suits.
Your local citizenry is now healthier instead of spreading Swine Flu to you at the diner because they are sick, but can't afford that doctor visit for "just a flu". Or whatever else super illness comes along. Now they just go to the doctor and get treated.
This allows you to now only help people in your small town, but in every small town in the U.S. through buying power.
Comments
Tbh the screamers are nothing I worry about. They are composed of political plants to crazy nutballs and all types inbetween.
Its the quite guys in the back that should be the most worrysome. Timothy McVeigh was among many infamous things a very intelligent man.
Consumed with rage and no regard for human life yea, but smarter than most none the less.
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Nope I won't have to, because pretty soon we might have the same thing here or something similar. You should start looking at other countries to go to yourself.
So that's basically what it boils down to. You can't successfully control your life and want to depend on the federal government, so you think everyone should be just as pathetic as you.
They want t drag the rest of the world down into their repugnant parisitic system.
Exactly! That's usually the way it works in life. Instead of trying to pull themselves up, they look at successful people and bitterly try to destroy them.
All I want is to be able to make my own decisions. But everywhere I turn these days there are obstacles in the way. And more and more people who think it's okay to push their way into other folks lives and decision making process.
Is it so hard for them to understand leave other people alone? We don't want those jerks making decisions for us. I'm quite confident in my own authority over my life. I don't want the federal governments authority over me.
If I need help I will turn to my community, and if anyone in my community needs help they can turn to me. But these big government radicals are making that very hard on us. All they want to do is steal our money through taxation and make other important life decisions for us.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Yes because you and your mom have insurance, which is good. So what happens to someone who say, lost their job, and then he gets cancer. Is he to be expected to pay for it out of pocket?Or should he just wither up and die?
Or how about the people who go to emergency rooms and end up stiffing them on the bill? It happens so much that it's ridiculous, especially here in California (which I'm sure you already know.) Maybe if there's a public option for health insurance, that wouldn't happen and it would lower the costs of private insurance.
I'm all for having Universal Health care as an option. If you like your insurance you have now, great. Keep it. But I would like a public option to have to fall back on, in case something bad happens (if I lost my job, etc.)
None of this gives anyone the right to point a gun to people's heads an force them to be enslaved to their fellow man. If you believe people should help one another, no one is stopping you. Socialism is not the answer.
YOU ROCK!!!
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Oh very nice, throw some insults. You don't know me. Believe it or not, I have health insurance as provided by my job. But I think our health is much too important to depend on huge corporations that only care about PROFIT. That's my main concern.
Listen "Porgie", I don't depend on the Federal government for anything. I'm not on any kind of government aid, and I hope I never have to be. But if I had to one day, I would be glad it was there.The same goes for health insurance.
Call me pathetic all you want, it doesn't bother me. You know why? Because you're an ugly little douche bag (at least, according to your avatar.) What happened to your face, seriously? If you were born like that then I apologize.
Okay. So we have Fishermage's vote.
Fishermage trusts the insurance/medical corporate lobby over the government.
Who else thinks this way?
"TO MICHAEL!"
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
The Government all ways tells the truth !!!!
They always have your best interest in mind !!!
They have a long track record of telling the truth and looking out for you !!!
Yeah you keep believing that crap...
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Where in the constitution is it stated that it is the Federal Government's job to take tax money from some Americans to pay for the health care of other Americans?
If you believe in our form of government, the only reasonable response to federal Government Health Care is "no."
Are you that selfish that you don't want other Americans to live because they're too poor to pay for it? I pay Taxes which go towards Free Health Care in the UK and guess what whenever I need something in return I can go and I'm not charged a big bill. These taxes are tiny and the wages and prices all change to them so it'll have no effect on your life. You'll just be helping out other Americans. Many other countries in the World use this system like Canada and France and the UK and it works great.
You're Taxed for the schools and the roads and the Global Warming (even tho theres no hard evidence that we cause it) and you're taxed for the firemen and the Policemen........... why not Health Care? So you'll get it for free like the Police and the rest of them and other people can have a better life.
No, I'm so selfish that I want my money to be kept by me so that I can keep it in my community to help out others. I do not want it sent to an inefficient federal government. And I especially don't want it going somewhere by force.
And again, NOTHING is free.
Ummm.. a national healthplan instituted by the American government with your taxes WILL help people in your community, by making sure your local hospitals don't go bust because of unpaid medical bills of the uninsured.
You get to get fully functioning hospitals and healthier neighbors in your community by the strength of pooling your taxes with other taxes dollars. That's how the government's of Canada, Mexico and other international countries get American drugmakers to lower their costs substantially. The U.S. is the only place where were are paying full price of drugs, because it's all run by capitalist price fixing. There IS no competition in the drug market.
If the goverment has billions, they can buy drugs cheaper than any single health insurer. Why do you think Americans skip North or South of the border for prescriptions and smuggle them back? They have no buying power here, that's why. Heck, even in CUBA of all places pharmaceutical companies can't charge an arm and a leg.
What is your point again about helping your fellow commuinity people?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
... and later in the sentence you highlighted, I go on to say "I've always argued it as evil." Profiting-off-the-sick = bad, that is how I feel about the insurance companies.
They do seek a profit. I never said.. "Maybe they do, maybe they don't." You're cherry picking my statement. I said... "They may seek profit but the government.. " etc. Kind of like, "He may have murdered that one girl, but the other guy murdered three people.." Does that remark debate the first man's innocence?
My reply furthers beyond what you highlighted in the means that I feel a government bureaucracy can be much worse, of which I have experienced a lot of, to my great disliking. One evil + another evil does not = grand-benevolence.
Further in my reply:
"...to combating the Insurance Companies, making them far more liable for the actions."
Does it look like I'm supporting the insurance companies in any way? I f-ing hate the insurance companies, I want them held over the fire. However, this current reform bill needs assessment, in my opinion. It is an ' all-for-nothing , going-broke ' crap-shoot. There is no guarantee that costs will go down, there is no guarantee that people will be guaranteed coverage. You also have to pay either way, unless you qualify for "poor-assistance". I haven't read that part of the bill, but I will look for it tonight on how they decide who qualifies for free care and who doesn't. The way it's proposed is that you pay either way or you receive fines. That is not universal, it is a mandated coverage system based on the non-guarantee that costs will go down. Need I say that pharmaceutical companies are shelling out tons of cash to support the current proposal? Who-da-thunkit?!
Oh very nice, throw some insults. You don't know me. Believe it or not, I have health insurance as provided by my job. But I think our health is much too important to depend on huge corporations that only care about PROFIT. That's my main concern.
Listen "Porgie", I don't depend on the Federal government for anything. I'm not on any kind of government aid, and I hope I never have to be. But if I had to one day, I would be glad it was there.The same goes for health insurance.
Call me pathetic all you want, it doesn't bother me. You know why? Because you're an ugly little douche bag (at least, according to your avatar.) What happened to your face, seriously? If you were born like that then I apologize.
If you consider "pathetic" an insult, then look at the way you are viewing your community and the people in it. Aren't you calling them pathetic? I think so. If you think that no community can pull together to take care of it's own and we have to rely on some huge government agency that gets it's money from stealing from the worker in this nation, then who's really throwing the word pathetic around.
I believe in the American people. I believe we are able to take care of each other if given the chance. I do not believe in relying on the federal government to take care of us. I don't trust them nor do I like the way they forcefully take away from me and my family and neighbors.
I read the other day where Gnomexxx said the church that his family attends helps people out with medical bills when needed. That is awesome. It forms a cohesiveness in the community that no federal government can provide. Actually, the federal government can do nothing but destroy that cohesiveness with its intrusion and manipulation. I still remember that post because it stuck with me to show that community efforts can work and they do work.
There are plenty of private organizations that work very efficiently to help others. Tell the federal government they can go to hell and then people can start putting that tax money that used to be stolen into those private organizations through donations and charitable contributions.
But hey, if what I said offends you then so be it. I am always going to think of someone who depends on the federal government over their community as pathetic. And I especially consider someone who want to use the federal government to take away my freedoms and liberties as pathetic. Even more so, I consider them my enemy. I don't appreciate people who support something that comes to me with guns to force me to bow to their will. How you can't see that is wrong is beyond me.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Where in the constitution is it stated that it is the Federal Government's job to take tax money from some Americans to pay for the health care of other Americans?
If you believe in our form of government, the only reasonable response to federal Government Health Care is "no."
Are you that selfish that you don't want other Americans to live because they're too poor to pay for it? I pay Taxes which go towards Free Health Care in the UK and guess what whenever I need something in return I can go and I'm not charged a big bill. These taxes are tiny and the wages and prices all change to them so it'll have no effect on your life. You'll just be helping out other Americans. Many other countries in the World use this system like Canada and France and the UK and it works great.
You're Taxed for the schools and the roads and the Global Warming (even tho theres no hard evidence that we cause it) and you're taxed for the firemen and the Policemen........... why not Health Care? So you'll get it for free like the Police and the rest of them and other people can have a better life.
No, I'm so selfish that I want my money to be kept by me so that I can keep it in my community to help out others. I do not want it sent to an inefficient federal government. And I especially don't want it going somewhere by force.
And again, NOTHING is free.
Ummm.. a national healthplan instituted by the American government with your taxes WILL help people in your community, by making sure your local hospitals don't go bust because of unpaid medical bills of the uninsured.
You get to get fully functioning hospitals and healthier neighbors in your community by the strength of pooling your taxes with other taxes dollars. That's how the government's of Canada, Mexico and other international countries get American drugmakers to lower their costs substantially. The U.S. is the only place where were are paying full price of drugs, because it's all run by capitalist price fixing. There IS no competition in the drug market.
If the goverment has billions, they can buy drugs cheaper than any single health insurer. Why do you think Americans skip North or South of the border for prescriptions and smuggle them back? They have no buying power here, that's why. Heck, even in CUBA of all places pharmaceutical companies can't charge an arm and a leg.
What is your point again about helping your fellow commuinity people?
Wow you really twisted what she said around.
You totally ignored that inefficient part she wrote didn't you. And you conveniently ignored the by force part too.
Now, how is someone coming and taking our money by force to put it into an inefficient system helping our community again? How is it that you contend it is the best method?
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Insurance companies MAY seek a profit off of health and well being of others? Why is there any debate about that? It should be that they DO seek profit that way. That's the business model, period. People get sick they have to pay, they lose money. People stay well, or they deny the claim they don't have to pay; they profit. It really is about as simple a model as there is.
Again, if this was such a bad situation you wouldn't have Social Security as a third rail in politics that NO politician would ever touch. Ever. They even so much as daydream about cutting Social Security, that's the last that guy would ever work. Those Grey Panthers would make sure that guy never got a job in ANY industry related to them and you can bet on that. Every politician he knew would immediate lose his phone number.
The same goes for taking away any vet money. Hell, right now with this deficit, the ONLY money Republicans say we should go into debt on is for soldiers. Huh? They want to raise the deficit with socialized medicine for the military, so its certainly not accurate to say Republicans are against socialized medicine.
I would trust the government over a private insurance company who's bottom line looks better if I die, than to keep me alive. And that's saying a lot considering governments record over the last eight years.
Sorry I will take profit and voluntarism over guns and parisitism any day.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
I think the government program will work much like health care for workman's compensation patients. I was in the worker's compensation hell for my health care well over a year before my back surgery was finally given the ok to have surgery. This is what happens when government gets involved with your health care. If you think you will have better health care I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Oh and finally after four surgeries and three doctors two of which were not my choice I am somewhat fixed so get ready for the great healthcare. They decide who you see and what treatment you get not the supervising doctor he needs permission for everything so let's all enjoy the great healthcare we deserve. You kids live in fanasy land if you think the government will give you good timely healthcare I have lived the system for sometime now it's not that great.
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
My point is, here all of those people would get treatment right away. None of them would have to wait and suffer. And their doctors would get right to work on them.
I like it that way.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I dunno, I'm canadian and feel really free.
Maybe you guys should come up here and check it out
From what I've seen, you're really sick are coming down here to check us out.
No, just our "semi-sick" who can't wait their turn...
You hear a lot more about Americans coming to Canada with somebody elses ID and using our healthcare generally. HUGE problem in the border towns.
But most of those people who goto the states are people politically motivated to try to attack our healthcare system which will handle actually important procedures before minor or cosmetic procedures.
For example when your back hurts, and you have to wait 6 months, while people who lost limbs are being dealt with.
But again, I hear more in the news about local festivals and ponds turning funny colours than you hear about people going to the states to get a procedure done (and again its generally a minor surgery, cosmetic, or deemed not safe by our healthcare system.)
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
I think the government program will work much like health care for workman's compensation patients. I was in the worker's compensation hell for my health care well over a year before my back surgery was finally given the ok to have surgery. This is what happens when government gets involved with your health care. If you think you will have better health care I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Oh and finally after four surgeries and three doctors two of which were not my choice I am somewhat fixed so get ready for the great healthcare. They decide who you see and what treatment you get not the supervising doctor he needs permission for everything so let's all enjoy the great healthcare we deserve. You kids live in fanasy land if you think the government will give you good timely healthcare I have lived the system for sometime now it's not that great.
I am sorry to hear that story. I understand how debilitating back pain can be.
You're story rings true though. You are absolutely right.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
I am really glad your mother's cancer was treated and her insurance company paid up. That is really great and I've heard that some insurance companies do that no problem with some patients.
I will say this though... I honestly hope your mother is ALL cured of the cancer, that they got every single bit out. Because if they didn't and she has a relapse, her premiums are going to go up (if they haven't raised them on her already). You know why? She's now considered a "risk", she's not longer profitable. I'm sure what she paid into the plan was peanuts to what they paid to fix her. So now they are operating in the red with her. They have some actuarian right now pouring over her chart and crunching numbers and they can raise her rates to some crazy number and say she has to pay or they drop her.
If she can afford it, cool. If she can't afford higher rates she gets dropped like a hot potato. The minute she gets dropped, guess what?
No other private insurance company is going to cover her because of a pre-existing condition that's likely to occur, or they are going to charge her even MORE than her old company. That's just the way they do business and it's legal. It's like if you have car insurance and someone hits you; it's not your fault but if it happens a few times, your rates going up. If you refuse to pay the new rate, you're toast. And when you reveal to the next company "Yeah, I had two/three accidents but none of them are my fault. I'm just a magnet", they don't want to hear that. Rates going up, period.
I am not sure you understand what this whole thing is about. Obama wants to make it illegal for private companies to do that to your mom or anyone else. If they can't afford to pay like your mom if she now pays double, the government will say "Don't worry about your old cancer coming back. If it does, we'll pay for it and you as an American citizen don't have to pay EXTRA taxes for it because YOU unlucklily got the cancer again."
Please stop being so callous about this and think about what would happen if you, your mom or your knee recurred in this instance, because people are going through this as you type your response.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I am really glad your mother's cancer was treated and her insurance company paid up. That is really great and I've heard that some insurance companies do that no problem with some patients.
I will say this though... I honestly hope your mother is ALL cured of the cancer, that they got every single bit out. Because if they didn't and she has a relapse, her premiums are going to go up (if they haven't raised them on her already). You know why? She's now considered a "risk", she's not longer profitable. I'm sure what she paid into the plan was peanuts to what they paid to fix her. So now they are operating in the red with her. They have some actuarian right now pouring over her chart and crunching numbers and they can raise her rates to some crazy number and say she has to pay or they drop her.
If she can afford it, cool. If she can't afford higher rates she gets dropped like a hot potato. The minute she gets dropped, guess what?
No other private insurance company is going to cover her because of a pre-existing condition that's likely to occur, or they are going to charge her even MORE than her old company. That's just the way they do business and it's legal. It's like if you have car insurance and someone hits you; it's not your fault but if it happens a few times, your rates going up. If you refuse to pay the new rate, you're toast. And when you reveal to the next company "Yeah, I had two/three accidents but none of them are my fault. I'm just a magnet", they don't want to hear that. Rates going up, period.
I am not sure you understand what this whole thing is about. Obama wants to make it illegal for private companies to do that to your mom or anyone else. If they can't afford to pay like your mom if she now pays double, the government will say "Don't worry about your old cancer coming back. If it does, we'll pay for it and you as an American citizen don't have to pay EXTRA taxes for it because YOU unlucklily got the cancer again."
Please stop being so callous about this and think about what would happen if you, your mom or your knee recurred in this instance, because people are going through this as you type your response.
The people who want to take away the freedom of others for some socalist dream are the callous ones. If you believe peole should be helped, get to work. You have no right to impose your will on others. The force of the government is not the answer, love is.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
lol...
My god no wonder you guys have problems.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Yeah, well here the guy with the hurt back and the guy with the lost limb get their treatment right away. Works great for both of them. And I can attest for that back treatment. I've had it done myself. Herniated disc. I went to my ortho doctor, he had me in the outpatient surgical center 2 days later and now I'm good as new. I feel sorry for anyone who has to wait 6 months and go through that kind of hell.
Not to mention, it's pretty good for that guy with the hurt back to get all patched up so he can get back to work like I was able to. I'm sure the 6 months down with no pay could really screw some people up along with that hurt back.
But then, what do you expect for "free".
lol; I think you're taking my statement to places it was not intended.
In Canada if you get diagnosed with cancer, you get started on road treatment the next day.
If you have Fibromyalgia but can still walk, ofcourse your going to get put in a waiting list.
In your situation, if you were in chronic pain and unable to do anything you would get treatment before the guy with minor back pain.
You're manipulating what I say to prove your point.
All government is the product of force. Everything it takes it takes by force. Therefore we should be VERY wary of the pwers we give to that government. I do not want the government owning my body or anyone else's body, which is what we have effectively done when we hand over that to government.
I also do not feel the right that anyone has the right to forcibly extract health care from another. I would rather leave that to a more moral interaction -- one that is voluntary and basd on liberty.
Also, in the long run, every socialist system collapses under its own weight. None of these systems (not even the American quasi socialist system) is sustainable. If we are to have a sustainable futire for medicine, everyone must eventually choose liberty.
You and everyone else in the world have slipped in the wrong direction, and we are sadly following. This will eventually bankrupt everyone and we will be forced to return to liberty. better to start now, since the road to socialism is immoral anyway.
lol...
My god no wonder you guys have problems.
I don't agree with everything Fishermage says, but are you seriously going to argue that the government doesn't use force to do what it wants?
Did you know that paying taxes is voluntary? It's only voluntary until the IRS sends in it's armed enforcement team.. well technically it's still voluntary even then, but good luck choosing that route.
Nothing twisted, you read it wrong.
I address what I like as you do in posts. Sometimes I prefer to type less and don't address things which don't need addressing.
No one is "coming and taking your money by force". You've been paying taxes every year I assume and not working under the table. This just puts where the tax money goes in a different place from where it was before. The politicians all claim they aren't going to vote for it unless its fully funded and not deficited. You aren't getting "robbed", lol. You money is and always was there in Washington, so I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.
I explained it already in my other post how it helps "your" community. Cheaper drugs for taxpayers, instead of them having to break the law and smuggle them in now and OTHER countries getting the money from that sale, not the U.S. If a citizen buys an inhaler from Mexico, guess who's government gets that money? Right, NOT the U.S. lol. The government can buy in bulk but it can't do it now, because there's no healthcare.
Local and state hospitals don't have to send bills to insurance companies for UNINSURED people who need ACLs or cancer treatment. The insurance companies then don't raise the rates on policy holders to make up the difference, like they do right now, lol. Hospitals stay solvent because the government guarantees payment and doctors don't have to worry about huge malpractice suits.
Your local citizenry is now healthier instead of spreading Swine Flu to you at the diner because they are sick, but can't afford that doctor visit for "just a flu". Or whatever else super illness comes along. Now they just go to the doctor and get treated.
This allows you to now only help people in your small town, but in every small town in the U.S. through buying power.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Sorry I'm late. Did I miss anything?