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Why wont major developers take on a classless sandbox game?
Fkinglinux
Member Posts: 156
I don't quite understand it myself, there is a fairly large niche of players who want a skill oriented sandbox style game. Yet, all the major titles in this department are from small developers. I mean this formula is tried and tested, some of the first 2 mmos , Asherons Call and Ultima Online were both classless and pretty sandboxy, also both are still alive, and maybe even kicking. Why won't any of the bigger name MMO developers take on this challenge, instead of leaving our hopes in the hands of games such as Mortal Online and Darkfall?(Not saying there is anything wrong with those games).
Comments
because they all have sand in their vaginas. and that sand is made out of fear.
eve, earthrise, champions(not really sandbox), darkfall, mortal
champions is level based and also not sandbox, i mentioned major developers. TBH I would play EVE except I don't care for spaceships and feel that everyone already has too much of a headstart.
The answer to the question is easy. It would be a niche game that would have to be done perfectly to have any chance at survival in this market. The odds of making a profit are slim. Developers exist to make money entertaining you, not to entertain you at their expense. I wouldn't play such a game and there are millions like me that like the general class/quest aspects of MMOs.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
You know what would be nice, even if games continue to be made with classes, is if a player coudn't hover their mouse over you or pull up your paper doll and view your class.
It would also be nice if you couldn't look at what someone was wearing or wielding and know what class they are.
Can you imagine in PvP not knowing what class someone was, seeing a robed character thinking them a caster, only to find they are wearing the robes over heavy armor, while they whip out their Great Sword and beat you down?
While I can see your point, I think the niche is larger than you may believe. Look at all the followers of games like Darkfall and Mortal Online, that are just hoping they are done right.
That was what made Ultima so great :P
my guess is that it has to do with investors. Seems sandbox mmos are more of a risk and with the high cost of development a lot of times it probably just seems easier to go with what they know people already want. I really would like to see more sand box mmos though in addition to more themeparked types. More good games period
Sometimes I just really want to be able to create something myself in a game or decide something new that would be fun. Most of the games I've played don't really allow that at all. Just throw me some tools, give me an area to work in and I'll have a blast! I used to love playing the console games that had map editors. Heck, I spent more time designing my own custom multiplayer maps in Timesplitters than I did actually playing lol.
champions is level based and also not sandbox, i mentioned major developers. TBH I would play EVE except I don't care for spaceships ( a valid complaint) and feel that everyone already has too much of a headstart. (totally incorrect)
Don't shortchange yourself an excellent sandbox experience over your second concern, its just not true.
The market has shown it prefers games with classes and levels, (draws the most subs) so thats what the big houses are going to make.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone is trying to make another WoW, so they are trying to make the games appeal to as many people as they can. This is merely the first wave of MMOs since WoW, meaning those whose development began after WoW became popular, so it's every big company's first try at unseating 'the king'. After they figure out they aren't going to do it, they will realize that by spending less money developing the game and advertising they can make a really good game that maybe only appeals to sandbox fanatics or PvPers. By specializing they will be able to make a far better game, they just have to learn to keep their sights a little lower than #1.
Always the same answer,
They are greedy bastards and want to make millions like WoW.
So they wont go out of there way for a few thousand subs, they want a million subs.
I hope one day a big company will fund this, but its a dream at this point.
One thing is Eve is slowly gaining subscriptions while most game are losing them. Granted Eve has like 200-400k subs. I know Wow has grown as well but other then those two has there been a recent mmo that is gaining subs for a while?
It does not help that most "sandboxs" have not sold well. Some of it has to do with only small companies can make these games and small companies are not very good at providing polished products. Sadly Shadowbane was so wonderful an experiance I am forever cursed with the joy of a having played a good sandbox game. Its like knowing you will never get that same level of enjoyment back again for a while. If I just started playing MMOs with Wow. I would tell you all how bad Sandbox games are simply because recent sanbox titles have been crap.
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
It is really unfair to say that a more sandbox style game would be niche. There really has not been an example of a well made sandbox since UO and that is a 2D graphics game. Everything that has tried to be sandbox since then was delivered in such terrible shape there was almost no way for it to test the potential of a sandbox game.
Beyond that, I have to think they just isn't enough talent in the industry that could pull off a good sandbox game. Not many companies should or would try to without the proper leadership behind the project.
Maybe it's from hanging out at MMORPG.com too long, but I do get the impression there's enough players who want a Sandbox game that it could survive.
Very much not the type of gmae I personally enjoy, but it could probably succeed.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
We have no idea what a AAA dev house can do with a sandbox game. all we know is a small developer like CCP can make a good game and it actually appeals to enough people to make a nice profit.
Maybe one of the big boys will give us a sandbox to mess with.
Playing: WoW, EvE
Interested in: TOR, ER, GW2, WoD, Dust514
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
As others have mentioned, it's because most of the big developers want to swing for the fences and not produce something that will be a niche game at best. There may be quite a lot of people who like the idea of a sandbox game, but MMO players like so many different things, it works like this:
A Sandbox game! (lots of players)
Fantasy or sci-fi or other - you just lost a third or more whatever you choose, based on genre interest
Classless or classes - just lost a few more
heavy PVP or no? - you just lost some more
heavy grouping element or mostly solo - more gone
etc, etc, etc
Final result = niche.
Players like the idea of a sandbox game, but any particular sandbox game has yet to draw a massive amount of players (though some like EVE have done quite well)
I would also say there's probably a big enough sandbox base for the big boys to try there hand at it, who knows maybe blizzards new game is a sandbox
Remember wow is not the mmo king there are games that have double the sub rate of Wow. And the reasion Dev's dont like making sandbox games is they generaly only target max a 50k pop range and most game company are gready and want way more then that, so they probley see games of this type as a waste of time.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union
ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
I think perhaps it's because the small developers have done it already, and they're not very successful at it. That's why the "big guys" don't want to try it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Hmmmm ... how about a space fantasy sandbox game with planets ... while approaching you get the choice if you want it to be pve/pvp/both with mostly group/solo content and if it's a sandbox or themepark planet.
See, got me at least 80% of the market there :P
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Have to disagree here. It isn't true in that at the time UO launched MMO gaming was the select province of the pencil and paper gaming nerd herd, of which I was a card carrying member. There just weren't that many people turned on to MMO gaming at that time. WoW brought a ton of RTS gaming folks into the MMO genre. ***severe opinion incoming*** Most of the RTS crowd like quick gameplay that isn't too involved and one in which they can "win". "Winning" and/or end-game wasn't an idea associated with MMOs prior to this.***
The only thing I could say is "true" about this is that we haven't to date had a major, AAA studio put forth a solid sandbox effort. We've had one attempt and then abort one (SOE with SWG) however it should be noted that they never really tried to make it succeed and instead worried about ways to change totally what they had from day 1. We've also had a few attempts by indy or minor studios, some of which turned out pretty darn decent (EvE).
But yeah, it would be very nice to see a sandbox game with the backing (money) of a major studio would look like. One that actually had a team working to improve it as it grew as opposed trying to dismantle it. Wouldn't hurt considering the sea of AAA themeparks out there to throw an AAA island in here and there.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
1) Massive development cost;
2) Unsuccessful formulae due to poor quality of the game releases so far;
3) General consensus that the MMO scene is currently jeopardized by blizzard, just like the OS scene is jeopardized by Microsoft, and that trying to break trough the market is a waste of money;
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
If you consider CCP a major developer you can look forward to the possibility of World of Darkness Online being classless (minus what clan you'd pick, which is a set rule within the WOD universe)...