I agree I like the sandbox feel myself. Unfortunately Darkfall's sandbox seemed to be filled more with buried shit than with sand. I'm waiting for Mortal now, hopefully their sandbox will have all the crap filtered out of it. We shall see.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
Hmmmm ... how about a space fantasy sandbox game with planets ... while approaching you get the choice if you want it to be pve/pvp/both with mostly group/solo content and if it's a sandbox or themepark planet. See, got me at least 80% of the market there :P
Hmmm, aren't they making this already? Sounds a lot like Star Trek Online.
"See, the whole "paralysis phenomenon" Walton cites is only important if the game pressures the player to make a choice." Incorrect. After some digging, this appears to be the actual research article my friend cited. Basically they set up a jam-tasting booth in a store (and also gave out jam coupons.) In one study, 6 varieties of jam existed, 40% of the customers stopped to try some, and then 30% purchased jam. In the second study, 24 varieties, 60% of customers sampled some, 3% purchased jam. These customers were free to determine whether or not to purchase jam, and they purchased more (a lot more) when their choices were limited.
The supermarket itself is a pressure-filled environment, much like today's MMOs.
There is no place or reason to sit down, no reason for being there unless you are willing to buy, harsh lighting and accomodations, and anyone not doing something is seen as being in the way of everyone else trying to get things done.
So it is no wonder why a large number of choices can be paralyzing...when you are in a supermarket.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The supermarket itself is a pressure-filled environment, much like today's MMOs. There is no place or reason to sit down, no reason for being there unless you are willing to buy, harsh lighting and accomodations, and anyone not doing something is seen as being in the way of everyone else trying to get things done. So it is no wonder why a large number of choices can be paralyzing...when you are in a supermarket.
I don't think its the amount of choices that causes the pressure (if any at all) and its actually nice to have choices which has what put America on top in the first place. I think its the society we live in this day and age that causes almost self-imposed pressure. People want things now (no matter what it is) and they do not want to be held back by thinking about their choices. So what do most people do and why namebranding is also so effective (sad as that is), they just limit their own choices to the most popular for the most part and just pick a company out of a group of 4 or 5 companies and just buy products from that company.
How many people picked iPhone because it was Macintosh and related to iPod products? Were they honestly too paralyzed to consider other products, I don't believe so, I just think it goes along with people wanted a gadget that does a wide variety of their electronic needs and they wanted it now and iPhone was first. This also has promoted laziness amongst people as time as went on (I always blame McDonald's for starting this whole thing with their fast food concept) and I think people just want to find reasons to think less and less. This is just my personal opinion and belief on it. I think this "paralysis phenomenon" is a bit off because if there's anything that I never mind having in life, its options and choices.
I don't quite understand it myself, there is a fairly large niche of players who want a skill oriented sandbox style game. Yet, all the major titles in this department are from small developers. I mean this formula is tried and tested, some of the first 2 mmos , Asherons Call and Ultima Online were both classless and pretty sandboxy, also both are still alive, and maybe even kicking. Why won't any of the bigger name MMO developers take on this challenge, instead of leaving our hopes in the hands of games such as Mortal Online and Darkfall?(Not saying there is anything wrong with those games).
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Have to disagree here. It isn't true in that at the time UO launched MMO gaming was the select province of the pencil and paper gaming nerd herd, of which I was a card carrying member. There just weren't that many people turned on to MMO gaming at that time. WoW brought a ton of RTS gaming folks into the MMO genre. ***severe opinion incoming*** Most of the RTS crowd like quick gameplay that isn't too involved and one in which they can "win". "Winning" and/or end-game wasn't an idea associated with MMOs prior to this.***
The only thing I could say is "true" about this is that we haven't to date had a major, AAA studio put forth a solid sandbox effort. We've had one attempt and then abort one (SOE with SWG) however it should be noted that they never really tried to make it succeed and instead worried about ways to change totally what they had from day 1. We've also had a few attempts by indy or minor studios, some of which turned out pretty darn decent (EvE).
But yeah, it would be very nice to see a sandbox game with the backing (money) of a major studio would look like. One that actually had a team working to improve it as it grew as opposed trying to dismantle it. Wouldn't hurt considering the sea of AAA themeparks out there to throw an AAA island in here and there.
You are wrong. UO is released in Sep 1997 and EQ in Mar 1999. EQ became more popular than UO in a very short time. Those are the only major choices of MMOs at that time. It is pretty clear that UO is not able to capture EQ's market of players and that EQ has a much bigger market than UO.
You can't read. I stated that a solid sandbox game has not been put forth by a AAA company since this whole genre of MMOs has become "popular". But, it wasn't about that. It was just about wanting to write "You are wrong", so, have fun with that!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Square-Enix is attempting to revive sandbox type MMO's with their new MMO FFXIV. If it'll be successful, you all should expect to see more sandbox MMO's in the future too (or at least a mix of the 2 types)-- since the pattern of MMO business is to copy the successful MMO's and not try to make up anything new, so expect to see many FFXIV clones in the future if it sells well.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I don't quite understand it myself, there is a fairly large niche of players who want a skill oriented sandbox style game. Yet, all the major titles in this department are from small developers. I mean this formula is tried and tested, some of the first 2 mmos , Asherons Call and Ultima Online were both classless and pretty sandboxy, also both are still alive, and maybe even kicking. Why won't any of the bigger name MMO developers take on this challenge, instead of leaving our hopes in the hands of games such as Mortal Online and Darkfall?(Not saying there is anything wrong with those games).
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Have to disagree here. It isn't true in that at the time UO launched MMO gaming was the select province of the pencil and paper gaming nerd herd, of which I was a card carrying member. There just weren't that many people turned on to MMO gaming at that time. WoW brought a ton of RTS gaming folks into the MMO genre. ***severe opinion incoming*** Most of the RTS crowd like quick gameplay that isn't too involved and one in which they can "win". "Winning" and/or end-game wasn't an idea associated with MMOs prior to this.***
The only thing I could say is "true" about this is that we haven't to date had a major, AAA studio put forth a solid sandbox effort. We've had one attempt and then abort one (SOE with SWG) however it should be noted that they never really tried to make it succeed and instead worried about ways to change totally what they had from day 1. We've also had a few attempts by indy or minor studios, some of which turned out pretty darn decent (EvE).
But yeah, it would be very nice to see a sandbox game with the backing (money) of a major studio would look like. One that actually had a team working to improve it as it grew as opposed trying to dismantle it. Wouldn't hurt considering the sea of AAA themeparks out there to throw an AAA island in here and there.
You sound very bitter towards wow and it's success and sound like you are pulling out all the old copout statments like bringing in the rts crowd. Blizzard made a quality product. UO's success was due to having almost zero competition and was losing subs before EQ came and took even more of them. Sandbox games are like the alternative music scene in that those who hate the main stream have to have a place to call their own.
Well, if that's how you interpret it, then go right ahead. I'm stating fact, bub. Blizzard had a huge following from Warcraft (I know it may be hard for you to accept/realize that the WoW IP did exist in the form of several greatly popular, award winning RTS games prior to WoW). That fan following followed Blizzard's lead in to WoW.
As for the rest of what you wrote, it's your opinion and I don't share it. And the worlds still spins around and around so it's ok.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by teiohFromSWG the not enough customers is a load of crap. SWG, a horribly bugged, completely unfinished game managed to get 300k subscribers half a decade ago. A well made sandbox game could easily do a million plus. However this will never happen since the investors want to keep remaking wow in another IP hoping to get 10+ million
SWG got 300k subs only for short period after the launch and was steadily decresing afterwards. Shrinking subsriber numbers initiated NGE, a direct response to unsuccessfull game design.
Another sandbox style game like EVE hit 300k subs after 6 years and 11 expansions.
We will see how Mortal Online turns out but I doubt it will be more 'sandbox' than Darkfall.
I wouldn't say market is ready for this type of games. The market is not saturated enough, imo. Look at the crazy about Aion.
SWG got 300k subs only for short period after the launch and was steadily decresing afterwards. Shrinking subsriber numbers initiated NGE, a direct response to unsuccessfull game design. Another sandbox style game like EVE hit 300k subs after 6 years and 11 expansions. We will see how Mortal Online turns out but I doubt it will be more 'sandbox' than Darkfall. I wouldn't say market is ready for this type of games. The market is not saturated enough, imo.
Look at the crazy about Aion.
What needs be done is to convert the themepark to sandbox slowly by mixing together the two. Make the game like 30% sandbox, 70% themepark at first and other games continue the trend.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by Hyanmen What needs be done is to convert the themepark to sandbox slowly by mixing together the two. Make the game like 30% sandbox, 70% themepark at first and other games continue the trend.
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
What needs be done is to convert the themepark to sandbox slowly by mixing together the two. Make the game like 30% sandbox, 70% themepark at first and other games continue the trend.
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
Example would be FFXIV. There are basic combat classes, and then the crafting and gathering classes. You can get to the level cap by playing any of these 3 and don't even have to touch the others to get to the end. You have the freedom of choice to decide which way you want to excel in the game, so it's not restricted.
However at core the game is still themepark. The story is linear and you can't do just -anything- you want, but you do have much more choices than in your normal themepark game.
That way players won't be scared away by the difference in sandbox and themepark, but can be accustomed to it slowly. Later games can take more direct approach and increase the amount of sandbox if they want to.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
What needs be done is to convert the themepark to sandbox slowly by mixing together the two. Make the game like 30% sandbox, 70% themepark at first and other games continue the trend.
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
I am sorry, but sandbox to me does not necessarily mean that a game is complex. Nor does "theme park" mean that it is simple.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I am sorry, but sandbox to me does not necessarily mean that a game is complex. Nor does "theme park" mean that it is simple.
I agree. To me the difference is more like "Themepark is linear, Sandbox is more open". And I don't personally think that linear is a bad thing, I actually prefer it myself.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I don't think it has so much to do with sandbox, but rather more to do with sand.
Themepark is "content" and what's more, it's "content" that is easy to design things around. And even though that "content" is often just a matter of increasing numerical values and a variation of visuals, it must still be considered stimuli and options on some level.
The problem with the existing sandbox titles, if there indeed are any good ones that truly hold up to a strict definition of the term, is that they have little sand. You're free to define your gaming experience yes, but in practicality it's often improbable if not impossible to apply your ideas to the actual gameplay.
What I'm saying is: Sandbox does not equal no design. In fact, it's probably the opposite.
And when the games get there, I'm confident that the themepark will be a thing of the past.
Originally posted by Gdemami Do you give as example unreleased game? Seriously, please...
And the problem with that is..? It's still an example of a themepark and sandbox mixed together. How well will it work? I don't know, and I don't think it even matters. What matters is their approach which I feel is correct.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by thexrated I am sorry, but sandbox to me does not necessarily mean that a game is complex. Nor does "theme park" mean that it is simple.
Maybe not to you but that is what sandbox is - level of complexity.
Do you give as example unreleased game? Seriously, please...
i have to agree there, i look forward to FFXIV myself but all those popping in this thread every fifth post with "but haven't you all heard about FFXIV" while the info is still vague at best are frankly quite annoying and make themselves look stupid.
I don't quite understand it myself, there is a fairly large niche of players who want a skill oriented sandbox style game. Yet, all the major titles in this department are from small developers. I mean this formula is tried and tested, some of the first 2 mmos , Asherons Call and Ultima Online were both classless and pretty sandboxy, also both are still alive, and maybe even kicking. Why won't any of the bigger name MMO developers take on this challenge, instead of leaving our hopes in the hands of games such as Mortal Online and Darkfall?(Not saying there is anything wrong with those games).
Darkfall is as long macro 24/7 and exploits are aloud(most doing it and are not banned ) with magic been OP a class game.
There is not much freedom in Darkfall and with all the cheating and devs fix it by dumbdown the game i say Darkfall is slowly become a themepark class game.
I still play it but my limits almost have reach a lvl where i dont tolerate any more EZmode patches by devs and make it a walk in the park with no sweat:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
What I'm saying is: Sandbox does not equal no design. In fact, it's probably the opposite.
Uh? How so? What is the 'opposite' of game design, please?
It's a different kind of game design.
Sandbox requires more balance overall, because it's more wide open and with more features that intermingle. This makes it just as hard to make, just as "design heavy" as a themepark game design. In fact, in the big picture, sandbox games are much harder to design properly. That's why the big companies don't want to make them. They are very hard to make without having all kinds of problems, ala UO (who actually did a marvelous job except for a few things).
I expect the reason that the classless, skill-based characters have gone away is do to unpredictability.
In skill-based game, there is nothing to stop players from making jack-of-all-0trade toons that are kind of gimped for their "level". I know I did it in Ultima....i wanted to do a little bit of everything, which is why i love skill-based games.
However, as a developer, how do you plan content for players who, at equal levels, can have have a vastly different ability set? Either you tone it down, and focused players are bored...or you ramp it up, and people like me get left behind.
With so much being quest-driven now....i can see why devs are avoiding it....to i do miss it.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
Comments
I agree I like the sandbox feel myself. Unfortunately Darkfall's sandbox seemed to be filled more with buried shit than with sand. I'm waiting for Mortal now, hopefully their sandbox will have all the crap filtered out of it. We shall see.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
Hmmm, aren't they making this already? Sounds a lot like Star Trek Online.
The supermarket itself is a pressure-filled environment, much like today's MMOs.
There is no place or reason to sit down, no reason for being there unless you are willing to buy, harsh lighting and accomodations, and anyone not doing something is seen as being in the way of everyone else trying to get things done.
So it is no wonder why a large number of choices can be paralyzing...when you are in a supermarket.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I don't think its the amount of choices that causes the pressure (if any at all) and its actually nice to have choices which has what put America on top in the first place. I think its the society we live in this day and age that causes almost self-imposed pressure. People want things now (no matter what it is) and they do not want to be held back by thinking about their choices. So what do most people do and why namebranding is also so effective (sad as that is), they just limit their own choices to the most popular for the most part and just pick a company out of a group of 4 or 5 companies and just buy products from that company.
How many people picked iPhone because it was Macintosh and related to iPod products? Were they honestly too paralyzed to consider other products, I don't believe so, I just think it goes along with people wanted a gadget that does a wide variety of their electronic needs and they wanted it now and iPhone was first. This also has promoted laziness amongst people as time as went on (I always blame McDonald's for starting this whole thing with their fast food concept) and I think people just want to find reasons to think less and less. This is just my personal opinion and belief on it. I think this "paralysis phenomenon" is a bit off because if there's anything that I never mind having in life, its options and choices.
My god, the amount on ego fapping going on in this thread is hilarious. You guys keep it up and I'll grab my popcorn.
The only answer is Sandboxes are not proven to be profitable.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Have to disagree here. It isn't true in that at the time UO launched MMO gaming was the select province of the pencil and paper gaming nerd herd, of which I was a card carrying member. There just weren't that many people turned on to MMO gaming at that time. WoW brought a ton of RTS gaming folks into the MMO genre. ***severe opinion incoming*** Most of the RTS crowd like quick gameplay that isn't too involved and one in which they can "win". "Winning" and/or end-game wasn't an idea associated with MMOs prior to this.***
The only thing I could say is "true" about this is that we haven't to date had a major, AAA studio put forth a solid sandbox effort. We've had one attempt and then abort one (SOE with SWG) however it should be noted that they never really tried to make it succeed and instead worried about ways to change totally what they had from day 1. We've also had a few attempts by indy or minor studios, some of which turned out pretty darn decent (EvE).
But yeah, it would be very nice to see a sandbox game with the backing (money) of a major studio would look like. One that actually had a team working to improve it as it grew as opposed trying to dismantle it. Wouldn't hurt considering the sea of AAA themeparks out there to throw an AAA island in here and there.
You are wrong. UO is released in Sep 1997 and EQ in Mar 1999. EQ became more popular than UO in a very short time. Those are the only major choices of MMOs at that time. It is pretty clear that UO is not able to capture EQ's market of players and that EQ has a much bigger market than UO.
You can't read. I stated that a solid sandbox game has not been put forth by a AAA company since this whole genre of MMOs has become "popular". But, it wasn't about that. It was just about wanting to write "You are wrong", so, have fun with that!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Square-Enix is attempting to revive sandbox type MMO's with their new MMO FFXIV. If it'll be successful, you all should expect to see more sandbox MMO's in the future too (or at least a mix of the 2 types)-- since the pattern of MMO business is to copy the successful MMO's and not try to make up anything new, so expect to see many FFXIV clones in the future if it sells well.
Because there is no such large niche of players. UO never reached the popularly of even EQ, and would be considered niche today.
Most people like more directed content. Just look at the popularity of WOW & Aion.
Sadly this is true. A lot more people like to watch sports than play them too.
Have to disagree here. It isn't true in that at the time UO launched MMO gaming was the select province of the pencil and paper gaming nerd herd, of which I was a card carrying member. There just weren't that many people turned on to MMO gaming at that time. WoW brought a ton of RTS gaming folks into the MMO genre. ***severe opinion incoming*** Most of the RTS crowd like quick gameplay that isn't too involved and one in which they can "win". "Winning" and/or end-game wasn't an idea associated with MMOs prior to this.***
The only thing I could say is "true" about this is that we haven't to date had a major, AAA studio put forth a solid sandbox effort. We've had one attempt and then abort one (SOE with SWG) however it should be noted that they never really tried to make it succeed and instead worried about ways to change totally what they had from day 1. We've also had a few attempts by indy or minor studios, some of which turned out pretty darn decent (EvE).
But yeah, it would be very nice to see a sandbox game with the backing (money) of a major studio would look like. One that actually had a team working to improve it as it grew as opposed trying to dismantle it. Wouldn't hurt considering the sea of AAA themeparks out there to throw an AAA island in here and there.
You sound very bitter towards wow and it's success and sound like you are pulling out all the old copout statments like bringing in the rts crowd. Blizzard made a quality product. UO's success was due to having almost zero competition and was losing subs before EQ came and took even more of them. Sandbox games are like the alternative music scene in that those who hate the main stream have to have a place to call their own.
Well, if that's how you interpret it, then go right ahead. I'm stating fact, bub. Blizzard had a huge following from Warcraft (I know it may be hard for you to accept/realize that the WoW IP did exist in the form of several greatly popular, award winning RTS games prior to WoW). That fan following followed Blizzard's lead in to WoW.
As for the rest of what you wrote, it's your opinion and I don't share it. And the worlds still spins around and around so it's ok.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
themepark games are geared towards the average consumer who is too fat drunk and stupid to notice bad quality. this is why crap sells.
SWG got 300k subs only for short period after the launch and was steadily decresing afterwards. Shrinking subsriber numbers initiated NGE, a direct response to unsuccessfull game design.
Another sandbox style game like EVE hit 300k subs after 6 years and 11 expansions.
We will see how Mortal Online turns out but I doubt it will be more 'sandbox' than Darkfall.
I wouldn't say market is ready for this type of games. The market is not saturated enough, imo.
Look at the crazy about Aion.
What needs be done is to convert the themepark to sandbox slowly by mixing together the two. Make the game like 30% sandbox, 70% themepark at first and other games continue the trend.
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
Example would be FFXIV. There are basic combat classes, and then the crafting and gathering classes. You can get to the level cap by playing any of these 3 and don't even have to touch the others to get to the end. You have the freedom of choice to decide which way you want to excel in the game, so it's not restricted.
However at core the game is still themepark. The story is linear and you can't do just -anything- you want, but you do have much more choices than in your normal themepark game.
That way players won't be scared away by the difference in sandbox and themepark, but can be accustomed to it slowly. Later games can take more direct approach and increase the amount of sandbox if they want to.
Sandbox and themepark are different game design. The game is complex or simple.
Do you mind to elaborate how something can co-exist in between?
I am sorry, but sandbox to me does not necessarily mean that a game is complex. Nor does "theme park" mean that it is simple.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I agree. To me the difference is more like "Themepark is linear, Sandbox is more open". And I don't personally think that linear is a bad thing, I actually prefer it myself.
I don't think it has so much to do with sandbox, but rather more to do with sand.
Themepark is "content" and what's more, it's "content" that is easy to design things around. And even though that "content" is often just a matter of increasing numerical values and a variation of visuals, it must still be considered stimuli and options on some level.
The problem with the existing sandbox titles, if there indeed are any good ones that truly hold up to a strict definition of the term, is that they have little sand. You're free to define your gaming experience yes, but in practicality it's often improbable if not impossible to apply your ideas to the actual gameplay.
What I'm saying is: Sandbox does not equal no design. In fact, it's probably the opposite.
And when the games get there, I'm confident that the themepark will be a thing of the past.
And the problem with that is..? It's still an example of a themepark and sandbox mixed together. How well will it work? I don't know, and I don't think it even matters. What matters is their approach which I feel is correct.
i have to agree there, i look forward to FFXIV myself but all those popping in this thread every fifth post with "but haven't you all heard about FFXIV" while the info is still vague at best are frankly quite annoying and make themselves look stupid.
My Signature
Darkfall is as long macro 24/7 and exploits are aloud(most doing it and are not banned ) with magic been OP a class game.
There is not much freedom in Darkfall and with all the cheating and devs fix it by dumbdown the game i say Darkfall is slowly become a themepark class game.
I still play it but my limits almost have reach a lvl where i dont tolerate any more EZmode patches by devs and make it a walk in the park with no sweat:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
It's a different kind of game design.
Sandbox requires more balance overall, because it's more wide open and with more features that intermingle. This makes it just as hard to make, just as "design heavy" as a themepark game design. In fact, in the big picture, sandbox games are much harder to design properly. That's why the big companies don't want to make them. They are very hard to make without having all kinds of problems, ala UO (who actually did a marvelous job except for a few things).
Once upon a time....
Opposite of no design = Lots of design. (Sand)
The box is just a concept. "Anyone" Can make a sandbox. The amount and quality of the sand is the hard part.
Simply put: Making a good sandbox is alot harder than making a themepark.
I expect the reason that the classless, skill-based characters have gone away is do to unpredictability.
In skill-based game, there is nothing to stop players from making jack-of-all-0trade toons that are kind of gimped for their "level". I know I did it in Ultima....i wanted to do a little bit of everything, which is why i love skill-based games.
However, as a developer, how do you plan content for players who, at equal levels, can have have a vastly different ability set? Either you tone it down, and focused players are bored...or you ramp it up, and people like me get left behind.
With so much being quest-driven now....i can see why devs are avoiding it....to i do miss it.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature