NEVER!! I don't really hate you per say, just what you represent. You, and people like you have stripped all that was good away an MMO. What's left is a hollow shell of a former glory. At least some companies realize this and are trying to fix it.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
NEVER!! I don't really hate you per say, just what you represent. You, and people like you have stripped all that was good away an MMO. What's left is a hollow shell of a former glory. At least some companies realize this and are trying to fix it.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
Just because you like one kind of game doesn't mean that it's some kind of crime to make games another way. What is "good" or "bad" in a gameis very subjective.
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
I have taken a stance, an unpopular one at that, and have provided plenty of opportunity for you to come back with some substance. Instead you come back with a very generic position. Defend yourself. Think of something good and I will check it out tomorrow.
Doesn't EQ still have persistent non-instanced stuff? If so why doesn't OP stick with EQ? I mean, who cares what everyone else is playing... play what you like.
With an instance, at least you have the "immersion" factor, new dungeon, all the content where it should be... with persistant, you have the trailer park theme of loads of people standing around and sitting near walls waiting for mobs to materialize so they can pull them for xp/loot.
Instanced zones, especially including the ones that are right out of the city zones... like in Guild Wars or DDO... help weed out the moron/griefer factor. If there are asshats around, they don't need to ruin my experience by standing in front of me while I'm trying to have fun. If i'm partying and someone is being a prick, I can kick them out of it.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
I have taken a stance, an unpopular one at that, and have provided plenty of opportunity for you to come back with some substance. Instead you come back with a very generic position. Defend yourself. Think of something good and I will check it out tomorrow.
Defend myself from what? I'm not under attack. I hate instances. But that doesn't mean it has no place in any game. You make very broad claims that instancing is utterly ruining MMO's. This is a ridiculous statement as many popular MMO's have instances. If they were bad, no one would play them.
The reason people like instancing is because no game designer has ever designed open-world pvp the right way. If you're going to design an open-world mmo, then you can't use the level system that are found in most games. It makes no sense. For example, in a real-world scenario, even an experienced fighter could lose to a simple peasant if they make too many mistakes during a battle. In a level based system, the inexperienced peasant (e.g. at level 5) can continuously slash a sleeping experienced fighter (e.g. level 50) with a sword and never kill him. It's as simple as that. So to have an open-world mmo with pvp, you need to give it some real-world consequences. If the game designer chooses to stay with the level-based system, then they're either forced to create a separate server for pvp players only, or make it an instanced-based game with some contested areas.
So with that said, and as much as I would like completely open-world mmo, I'll stick with the instancing because at least it's competative from level 1 to n, and doesn't waste valuable time (i.e., not every gamer has 12 hours a day to play).
NEVER!! I don't really hate you per say, just what you represent. You, and people like you have stripped all that was good away an MMO. What's left is a hollow shell of a former glory. At least some companies realize this and are trying to fix it.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
NEVER!! I don't really hate you per say, just what you represent. You, and people like you have stripped all that was good away an MMO. What's left is a hollow shell of a former glory. At least some companies realize this and are trying to fix it.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
The biggest problem with MMO pvp is class balance. Even games that take the rock paper scissors approach have serious balance issues. The characters are far too complex and this creates serious developer issues. Plus, rock, paper, scissors is boring in a game that is typically years of investment and countless hours to be competative. Which brings up the next problem. The other issue with MMO pvp is the power curve. Time invested garners a player far too much innate power over lesser played enemies.
Of course, this is all my opinion. However, my favorite MMO pvp game avoided these pitfalls and among other things. It is different with FPS because you can almost always switch roles with the touch of a button. Now, if an MMO provided this...
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Darkfall is one of those games without instance u guyz can play whack-o-noob, so why dont u guyz go there play and be happy
I used to play Lineage2 and wait hours for a boss to respwn for the damned nobless quest and quite not fun since to get the kill u must be on the party, and no asshat clan like to have other ppl there.
i belive the type of game bring balance of this issue.
A game where u can only get the gear/quest by bosses must be instanced, while those who is craft driven/normal mob dropable can have open world dungeons.
Now the "instances kill the comunity feeling" talk is what i cant take, so u know theres ppl who arent pvp-centric, who btw are major player base and the game NEED these subscriptions and u want a game thats just fuck their pve time, GREAT feeling of comunity. Now the secret: the asshats of real life will also be in the game and games meant to be fun and its not fun playing with ppl u dont like it, so game should implement mecanics for the player join his friends and "go to the pub" have a FUN time.
There is NO bad ppl, but ppl think diferent and ALL should have their space and respect.
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
NEVER!! I don't really hate you per say, just what you represent. You, and people like you have stripped all that was good away an MMO. What's left is a hollow shell of a former glory. At least some companies realize this and are trying to fix it.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
Another "minority" here. I see instancing as just another small disappointment compared to seamless MMOs.
Although I would have to disagree on your PvP views, but I don't claim to be a PVPer because I do both. PVP does add more to the sense of freedom that I look for in MMOs. Like the freedom to attack or kill another player who could otherwise be an a$$ and get away with it =P Or attack and kill an opposing group for control of resources etc. Of course it's not balanced, it never was. That's what allies are for
- Allows dev's the ability to add different content without having to take down servers.
- Allows the server to accomodate more users by lowering server load.
- Allows the dev's to accomodate different skill levels.
Instancing Cons:
- Can disrupt a player's immersion within the game world.
- Players can exploit the " portal " between instances.
- Can complicate player interaction.
There are probably others, but those just seem to be the ones that stick out the most. I personally do think that the use of instancing really depends on how the game was designed and built. I found instancing in FFXI to be a great addition to the game. On the other hand, AoC failed in that respect.
Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
I enjoy competition and a good challenge. Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
I simply don't understand how people can confuse their opinion with fact.
I enjoy competition and a good challenge. Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I enjoy competition and a good challenge. Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
lol sorry to ask but.. what is a pecking order? hahaha
I enjoy competition and a good challenge. Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
lol sorry to ask but.. what is a pecking order? hahaha
I hate it, well that seems a bit extreme but I really dont like it. For those of you who played EQ back then, imagine if Karnor's Castle was instance. That would have been a terrible zone. Why dont we see non-instanced dungeons anymore? I understand that instancing has its uses for CERTAIN things. Like if your doing a quest and there is a timeline and what not, that makes sense. I mean look at these games today. I hate going into a dungeon and only having my party there.
Now the flamers will say that instances help us from not having to camp spawns and instead we all get our of zone and the mob is already spawned for us! bah to that. I think that is dungeons/castles whatever were made with "named" mobs all over that had decent respawn rates with not to many place holders, then it would work.
please explain the popularity AMONG players for instancing. I know that devs love it because it uses up less bandwidth on thier servers or w/e
Thanks!
SWOOGIE MCDOOGIE
Easy... to avoid things like this....
/shout TRAIN INC!!!! MOVE OR DIE!!!!
or
/shout lvl 45 Cleric LFG PST (and then waiting up to an hour in a player-made queue because of lack of viable areas to level.)
or
Camping special items that are highly contested for, and an uberguild decides to train you into oblivion so they can get your spot.
But yeah, mainly CAMPING... camping... and more camping... which may take away from the whole "realism" of everyone being in the same place... I thought it was equally unrealistic that the mobs magically "pop" back into existence.
Don't get me wrong... in the day classic EQ was fun in some aspects... but no... not the camping part... or the boat part either, hated that goddamned boat.
Did you even read my post before you quoted me?
1) In ever game I have played since EQ, the mobs are teathered. Therefore; training doesnt matter
2) I said if there are named mobs with decent spawn rates and only a few place holders, then it would work. Think about it 2 place holders with a 15 min respawn. The rare loot can vary like it normally does ( well lesser)
3) There is nothing wrong with waiting to get a group. Go solo or find another place. It is not that hard. Its pretty whinny if you ask me. I mean its full get over it. <-- sounds harsh but its true
Because for some reason the casual WoW generation loves to pay 15 bucks a month for a semi single player game that doesn't even have a persistent world.
MMORPGs are social games. There is nothing more that I hate than finding an awesome cave and trying to enter "You do not have the right quest!" Or going into a cavern that should be filled with adventurers fighting their way down, but instead... I'm alone. Bad and lazy programming right there. But thats basically all Blizzard is, insanely lazy.
Why instancing ? Let me tell of you the days of old in Everquest.
Dungeons were not instanced. People would set up "camps" in spots where a certain named mob dropped better then average loot. For example, the dungeon lower guk. The Froglok King dropped a mithril 2h sword & Crown of Froglok Kings. Players would sit in his room and kill the adds and "farm" the king for drops and exp.
Not being instanced meant that other players or groups would routinely arrive if they didn't as in zone chat if it was already camped. In that case if they were cool they'd go elsewhere. If not they could try to train the group out of the spot, or sit there and try to kill steal it.
EQ awarded loot to whomever did the most damage, not who hit it first. Without instanced dungeons this was a constant issue. Different groups fighting for spots to camp named mobs.
I miss wandering into a dungeon that may or may not be part of a quest and exploring it.
I miss finding those dungeons while explorings a world that is full of areas of interest, towers with chests at the top, keeps with monster with some chests, I miss random drop items that are RARE and cool as hell.
I miss gear that doesn't bind and isn't lvl specific.
But instances do have some reasons. Those long lines at the bottom of a dungeon camping a chest. Only to have some idiot come in a skip past the line and run away.
But at the same time, that did tend to make the game FEEL aive.
Why instancing ? Let me tell of you the days of old in Everquest. Dungeons were not instanced. People would set up "camps" in spots where a certain named mob dropped better then average loot. For example, the dungeon lower guk. The Froglok King dropped a mithril 2h sword & Crown of Froglok Kings. Players would sit in his room and kill the adds and "farm" the king for drops and exp. Not being instanced meant that other players or groups would routinely arrive if they didn't as in zone chat if it was already camped. In that case if they were cool they'd go elsewhere. If not they could try to train the group out of the spot, or sit there and try to kill steal it. EQ awarded loot to whomever did the most damage, not who hit it first. Without instanced dungeons this was a constant issue. Different groups fighting for spots to camp named mobs.
Simple solution to that. Put account timers on looting certain mobs and/or dungeons.
Because for some reason the casual WoW generation loves to pay 15 bucks a month for a semi single player game that doesn't even have a persistent world.
MMORPGs are social games. There is nothing more that I hate than finding an awesome cave and trying to enter "You do not have the right quest!" Or going into a cavern that should be filled with adventurers fighting their way down, but instead... I'm alone. Bad and lazy programming right there. But thats basically all Blizzard is, insanely lazy.
You're right, due to lazy programming and a "lack of a social aspect", almost nobody plays WOW or has fun with it.
...er, wait a sec, millions of players play it and have fun with it.
Yet another post claiming MMOs "should be this way", that fails to realize MMOs should be whatever way people have fun (and the WOW model is clearly one of those ways.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I hated instancing when it first started creeping into the genre, but I've come to practically require it. EVE is a rare exception thanks only to its gigantic size.
For me, it's quite simple: instancing allows the game to better maintain the integrity and (yes, I'm going to say it) immersion of its world. I'm interested in MMOs for the massively multiplayer experience, yes, but I don't understand why some people seem to think it's not massively multiplayer if some glen in the middle of nowhere doesn't have a stream of players moving in and out of it such that it resembles a modern highway traffic jam.
Unless developers are willing to slave 4-8 years of their lives into hammering out a gigantic world like Vanguard's—which exactly no one seems to be and practically everyone considers 'too big' for some unfathomable reason—I'm instancing's bitch.
With the ever-increasing overabundance of MMO players swarming into games that can't possibly be big enough to spread them reasonably across one world, you need instancing, whether in the form of a multitude of 'shards' or fewer shards with more instances therein—the distinction is insubstantial.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Because for some reason the casual WoW generation loves to pay 15 bucks a month for a semi single player game that doesn't even have a persistent world.
MMORPGs are social games. There is nothing more that I hate than finding an awesome cave and trying to enter "You do not have the right quest!" Or going into a cavern that should be filled with adventurers fighting their way down, but instead... I'm alone. Bad and lazy programming right there. But thats basically all Blizzard is, insanely lazy.
You're right, due to lazy programming and a "lack of a social aspect", almost nobody plays WOW or has fun with it.
...er, wait a sec, millions of players play it and have fun with it.
Yet another post claiming MMOs "should be this way", that fails to realize MMOs should be whatever way people have fun (and the WOW model is clearly one of those ways.)
They don't know any better. They didn't play MMORPGs back when they could still be considered MMORPGs. They hare heavy casual people who's only experience is with WoW. Now that would be fine... if it hadn't affected the rest of us core MMORPG players.
Without instances I would have the most exciting adventures in dungeons. It was all very dynamic. You could wander in without having the stupid quest for it and just explore. You could run into trouble, a random person could help you. You'd team up, you'd die, someone would wander by and rez you. The three of you would go deeper, finding more camps. Sometimes you'd run into other people, sometimes they had the camp you wanted. Know how you can solve that? WITH WORDS. "How long are you gonna be here?" "We're moving on" or "We're here for a while" "Ok cool, we'll find another camp." But instead, people would rather hide from social interaction in their own little bubbles. That's what singleplayer and coop games are for...
It IS lazy programming. There are almost no benefits to instancing really that outweigh how much it takes away from the game. Perhaps if Blizzard innovated a new feature for once in their ENTIRE career they'd have come up with a creative solution isntead of ripping instances from another game and making them even worse.
Vanguard had a very VERY clever way around instances...
Comments
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
Just because you like one kind of game doesn't mean that it's some kind of crime to make games another way. What is "good" or "bad" in a game is very subjective.
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
I have taken a stance, an unpopular one at that, and have provided plenty of opportunity for you to come back with some substance. Instead you come back with a very generic position. Defend yourself. Think of something good and I will check it out tomorrow.
Doesn't EQ still have persistent non-instanced stuff? If so why doesn't OP stick with EQ? I mean, who cares what everyone else is playing... play what you like.
With an instance, at least you have the "immersion" factor, new dungeon, all the content where it should be... with persistant, you have the trailer park theme of loads of people standing around and sitting near walls waiting for mobs to materialize so they can pull them for xp/loot.
Instanced zones, especially including the ones that are right out of the city zones... like in Guild Wars or DDO... help weed out the moron/griefer factor. If there are asshats around, they don't need to ruin my experience by standing in front of me while I'm trying to have fun. If i'm partying and someone is being a prick, I can kick them out of it.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
How very diplomatic and uninspired of you to point that out.
If you want me to say something inspired, you'll have to actually make a logical argument. You're not giving me much to work with.
I have taken a stance, an unpopular one at that, and have provided plenty of opportunity for you to come back with some substance. Instead you come back with a very generic position. Defend yourself. Think of something good and I will check it out tomorrow.
Defend myself from what? I'm not under attack. I hate instances. But that doesn't mean it has no place in any game. You make very broad claims that instancing is utterly ruining MMO's. This is a ridiculous statement as many popular MMO's have instances. If they were bad, no one would play them.
The reason people like instancing is because no game designer has ever designed open-world pvp the right way. If you're going to design an open-world mmo, then you can't use the level system that are found in most games. It makes no sense. For example, in a real-world scenario, even an experienced fighter could lose to a simple peasant if they make too many mistakes during a battle. In a level based system, the inexperienced peasant (e.g. at level 5) can continuously slash a sleeping experienced fighter (e.g. level 50) with a sword and never kill him. It's as simple as that. So to have an open-world mmo with pvp, you need to give it some real-world consequences. If the game designer chooses to stay with the level-based system, then they're either forced to create a separate server for pvp players only, or make it an instanced-based game with some contested areas.
So with that said, and as much as I would like completely open-world mmo, I'll stick with the instancing because at least it's competative from level 1 to n, and doesn't waste valuable time (i.e., not every gamer has 12 hours a day to play).
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
The biggest problem with MMO pvp is class balance. Even games that take the rock paper scissors approach have serious balance issues. The characters are far too complex and this creates serious developer issues. Plus, rock, paper, scissors is boring in a game that is typically years of investment and countless hours to be competative. Which brings up the next problem. The other issue with MMO pvp is the power curve. Time invested garners a player far too much innate power over lesser played enemies.
Of course, this is all my opinion. However, my favorite MMO pvp game avoided these pitfalls and among other things. It is different with FPS because you can almost always switch roles with the touch of a button. Now, if an MMO provided this...
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Darkfall is one of those games without instance u guyz can play whack-o-noob, so why dont u guyz go there play and be happy
I used to play Lineage2 and wait hours for a boss to respwn for the damned nobless quest and quite not fun since to get the kill u must be on the party, and no asshat clan like to have other ppl there.
i belive the type of game bring balance of this issue.
A game where u can only get the gear/quest by bosses must be instanced, while those who is craft driven/normal mob dropable can have open world dungeons.
Now the "instances kill the comunity feeling" talk is what i cant take, so u know theres ppl who arent pvp-centric, who btw are major player base and the game NEED these subscriptions and u want a game thats just fuck their pve time, GREAT feeling of comunity. Now the secret: the asshats of real life will also be in the game and games meant to be fun and its not fun playing with ppl u dont like it, so game should implement mecanics for the player join his friends and "go to the pub" have a FUN time.
There is NO bad ppl, but ppl think diferent and ALL should have their space and respect.
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
I'm all for "not going down without a fight" -attitude but perhaps you just should quietly accept the fact that you belong to a minority. A loud minory I might add.
There a lot more of people like me than you think. Also a growing number of people who "want more" from an MMO these days, but I do agree, we are still a minority...albeit a growing minority.
With WoW we did become an instant minority. We are growing tho. look at the strong discontent with have had with all the recent games, AoC WAR and maybe Aion, its far to early to tell with it tho. These games meant for the casual crowd are not living up to expectations. . Its just a matter of time until we get the real MMORPG's coming back.
As for you mmo PvP'ers who think your better, all I can do is lol at you. PvP is not meant to be balanced, and that is MMO's fatal flaw with PvP. Until an MMO adopts the rock, paper, scissors aproach, like FPS weapons do, the PvP will always be garbage and an extreme waste of code and time, and more importantly a waste of a game.
Another "minority" here. I see instancing as just another small disappointment compared to seamless MMOs.
Although I would have to disagree on your PvP views, but I don't claim to be a PVPer because I do both. PVP does add more to the sense of freedom that I look for in MMOs. Like the freedom to attack or kill another player who could otherwise be an a$$ and get away with it =P Or attack and kill an opposing group for control of resources etc. Of course it's not balanced, it never was. That's what allies are for
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
Instancing Pros:
- Allows dev's the ability to add different content without having to take down servers.
- Allows the server to accomodate more users by lowering server load.
- Allows the dev's to accomodate different skill levels.
Instancing Cons:
- Can disrupt a player's immersion within the game world.
- Players can exploit the " portal " between instances.
- Can complicate player interaction.
There are probably others, but those just seem to be the ones that stick out the most. I personally do think that the use of instancing really depends on how the game was designed and built. I found instancing in FFXI to be a great addition to the game. On the other hand, AoC failed in that respect.
I enjoy competition and a good challenge.
Heh, I doubt most of you would be able to handle playing Classic Everquest.
The bottom line is people want handouts and EZ mode. So, go on and whine about how that isn't the case and how I don't know what I'm talking about.. blah blah blah.
I simply don't understand how people can confuse their opinion with fact.
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
lol sorry to ask but.. what is a pecking order? hahaha
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
EQ? Challenge? You had better be talking about PVP servers. Even then, there was little challenge once the pecking order was established. PVE was a chat room with a 3d mini-game attatched to it before PoP.
lol sorry to ask but.. what is a pecking order? hahaha
Google is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecking_order
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Easy... to avoid things like this....
/shout TRAIN INC!!!! MOVE OR DIE!!!!
or
/shout lvl 45 Cleric LFG PST (and then waiting up to an hour in a player-made queue because of lack of viable areas to level.)
or
Camping special items that are highly contested for, and an uberguild decides to train you into oblivion so they can get your spot.
But yeah, mainly CAMPING... camping... and more camping... which may take away from the whole "realism" of everyone being in the same place... I thought it was equally unrealistic that the mobs magically "pop" back into existence.
Don't get me wrong... in the day classic EQ was fun in some aspects... but no... not the camping part... or the boat part either, hated that goddamned boat.
Did you even read my post before you quoted me?
1) In ever game I have played since EQ, the mobs are teathered. Therefore; training doesnt matter
2) I said if there are named mobs with decent spawn rates and only a few place holders, then it would work. Think about it 2 place holders with a 15 min respawn. The rare loot can vary like it normally does ( well lesser)
3) There is nothing wrong with waiting to get a group. Go solo or find another place. It is not that hard. Its pretty whinny if you ask me. I mean its full get over it. <-- sounds harsh but its true
Because for some reason the casual WoW generation loves to pay 15 bucks a month for a semi single player game that doesn't even have a persistent world.
MMORPGs are social games. There is nothing more that I hate than finding an awesome cave and trying to enter "You do not have the right quest!" Or going into a cavern that should be filled with adventurers fighting their way down, but instead... I'm alone. Bad and lazy programming right there. But thats basically all Blizzard is, insanely lazy.
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Why instancing ? Let me tell of you the days of old in Everquest.
Dungeons were not instanced. People would set up "camps" in spots where a certain named mob dropped better then average loot. For example, the dungeon lower guk. The Froglok King dropped a mithril 2h sword & Crown of Froglok Kings. Players would sit in his room and kill the adds and "farm" the king for drops and exp.
Not being instanced meant that other players or groups would routinely arrive if they didn't as in zone chat if it was already camped. In that case if they were cool they'd go elsewhere. If not they could try to train the group out of the spot, or sit there and try to kill steal it.
EQ awarded loot to whomever did the most damage, not who hit it first. Without instanced dungeons this was a constant issue. Different groups fighting for spots to camp named mobs.
I miss wandering into a dungeon that may or may not be part of a quest and exploring it.
I miss finding those dungeons while explorings a world that is full of areas of interest, towers with chests at the top, keeps with monster with some chests, I miss random drop items that are RARE and cool as hell.
I miss gear that doesn't bind and isn't lvl specific.
But instances do have some reasons. Those long lines at the bottom of a dungeon camping a chest. Only to have some idiot come in a skip past the line and run away.
But at the same time, that did tend to make the game FEEL aive.
Simple solution to that. Put account timers on looting certain mobs and/or dungeons.
You're right, due to lazy programming and a "lack of a social aspect", almost nobody plays WOW or has fun with it.
...er, wait a sec, millions of players play it and have fun with it.
Yet another post claiming MMOs "should be this way", that fails to realize MMOs should be whatever way people have fun (and the WOW model is clearly one of those ways.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I hated instancing when it first started creeping into the genre, but I've come to practically require it. EVE is a rare exception thanks only to its gigantic size.
For me, it's quite simple: instancing allows the game to better maintain the integrity and (yes, I'm going to say it) immersion of its world. I'm interested in MMOs for the massively multiplayer experience, yes, but I don't understand why some people seem to think it's not massively multiplayer if some glen in the middle of nowhere doesn't have a stream of players moving in and out of it such that it resembles a modern highway traffic jam.
Unless developers are willing to slave 4-8 years of their lives into hammering out a gigantic world like Vanguard's—which exactly no one seems to be and practically everyone considers 'too big' for some unfathomable reason—I'm instancing's bitch.
With the ever-increasing overabundance of MMO players swarming into games that can't possibly be big enough to spread them reasonably across one world, you need instancing, whether in the form of a multitude of 'shards' or fewer shards with more instances therein—the distinction is insubstantial.
You're right, due to lazy programming and a "lack of a social aspect", almost nobody plays WOW or has fun with it.
...er, wait a sec, millions of players play it and have fun with it.
Yet another post claiming MMOs "should be this way", that fails to realize MMOs should be whatever way people have fun (and the WOW model is clearly one of those ways.)
They don't know any better. They didn't play MMORPGs back when they could still be considered MMORPGs. They hare heavy casual people who's only experience is with WoW. Now that would be fine... if it hadn't affected the rest of us core MMORPG players.
Without instances I would have the most exciting adventures in dungeons. It was all very dynamic. You could wander in without having the stupid quest for it and just explore. You could run into trouble, a random person could help you. You'd team up, you'd die, someone would wander by and rez you. The three of you would go deeper, finding more camps. Sometimes you'd run into other people, sometimes they had the camp you wanted. Know how you can solve that? WITH WORDS. "How long are you gonna be here?" "We're moving on" or "We're here for a while" "Ok cool, we'll find another camp." But instead, people would rather hide from social interaction in their own little bubbles. That's what singleplayer and coop games are for...
It IS lazy programming. There are almost no benefits to instancing really that outweigh how much it takes away from the game. Perhaps if Blizzard innovated a new feature for once in their ENTIRE career they'd have come up with a creative solution isntead of ripping instances from another game and making them even worse.
Vanguard had a very VERY clever way around instances...
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