ya, just try imagine wow instance not being instanced. player 1> > hey, I want to kill the boss. player 2> > Ok, there are 100 people wanting to kill this boss too. You need to wait in line.
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Short Answer
Yes
Why? Can I have the long answer?
nariusseldon just did. Your example, didnt contradict that post
ya, just try imagine wow instance not being instanced. player 1> > hey, I want to kill the boss. player 2> > Ok, there are 100 people wanting to kill this boss too. You need to wait in line.
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
ya, just try imagine wow instance not being instanced. player 1> > hey, I want to kill the boss. player 2> > Ok, there are 100 people wanting to kill this boss too. You need to wait in line.
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
Your idea is BAD game design all around.
Yes but in a non-instanced dungeon (think of Karnor's Castle again) there is way over 25 probably 35 named mobs that are killed for loot. In just 1 zone. This is compared to 3-4 mini bosses and a main boss in the end of the zone. This way you get a boss around every 30 mins while at a camp or something.
I want to make it very clear that I am a casual player in the sense that I dont play a whole lot but when I play I want there to be EFFORT put into what I do. I dont want to be handed armour because I ran some gimpy instance in a PUG for 15 minutes. I would rather play for 1 hour and only get exp then play for 15 and get 4 drops + exp in a instance style dungeon.
What ever happened to grouping for long periods instead of doing a instance and leaving then going to the next one and leaving.
When you have to fight with other guilds to get the end game loot then you'll be wanting that instancing back.
Thats how it was in EQ. One guild would monopolize the spawns. They'd make up calendars for raids so people could take turns. It all worked until one guild decided screw the calendar we're doing what we want when we want. Then it was first come first serve. You'd have two raids trying to race each other through dungeons to get to the end boss, even sometimes trying to kill steal the boss. It was ridiculous.
I would like to see the small group instance against very difficult odds to give your characters the since of accomplishment in an epic movie/book style. Instancing can sort of create this feeling for many people at one time. I see no difference in the level of challenge that can be created for small groups as opposed to large groups.
When you have to fight with other guilds to get the end game loot then you'll be wanting that instancing back. Thats how it was in EQ. One guild would monopolize the spawns. They'd make up calendars for raids so people could take turns. It all worked until one guild decided screw the calendar we're doing what we want when we want. Then it was first come first serve. You'd have two raids trying to race each other through dungeons to get to the end boss, even sometimes trying to kill steal the boss. It was ridiculous. Instancing is the solution and an improvement.
ya, just try imagine wow instance not being instanced. player 1> > hey, I want to kill the boss. player 2> > Ok, there are 100 people wanting to kill this boss too. You need to wait in line.
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
Your idea is BAD game design all around.
Yes but in a non-instanced dungeon (think of Karnor's Castle again) there is way over 25 probably 35 named mobs that are killed for loot. In just 1 zone. This is compared to 3-4 mini bosses and a main boss in the end of the zone. This way you get a boss around every 30 mins while at a camp or something.
I want to make it very clear that I am a casual player in the sense that I dont play a whole lot but when I play I want there to be EFFORT put into what I do. I dont want to be handed armour because I ran some gimpy instance in a PUG for 15 minutes. I would rather play for 1 hour and only get exp then play for 15 and get 4 drops + exp in a instance style dungeon.
What ever happened to grouping for long periods instead of doing a instance and leaving then going to the next one and leaving.
That wont be very good. No one (not even blizzard) can afford 25-35 specially designed encounters (boss fights) in a dungeon. You have to resort to named mobs that you can tank & spank. That would be less fun, and less challenging. You can take it to the extreme too .. just spawn 100 mobs with different names from a database but it would be an extremely boring dungeons.
Your second paragraph is totally irrelevant to the idea of instancing. Just look at WOW hard mode encounters. It is an instance but the encounter is so hard that you will wipe and wipe.
There are hard instances and there are easy ones. If you want a hard challenge, complaining about instances is barking up the WRONG TREE.
In fact, non-instance makes it EASIER cause you can bring 100 people and kill the boss trivially.
Comments
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Short Answer
Yes
Why? Can I have the long answer?
nariusseldon just did. Your example, didnt contradict that post
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
Your idea is BAD game design all around.
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
Your idea is BAD game design all around.
Yes but in a non-instanced dungeon (think of Karnor's Castle again) there is way over 25 probably 35 named mobs that are killed for loot. In just 1 zone. This is compared to 3-4 mini bosses and a main boss in the end of the zone. This way you get a boss around every 30 mins while at a camp or something.
I want to make it very clear that I am a casual player in the sense that I dont play a whole lot but when I play I want there to be EFFORT put into what I do. I dont want to be handed armour because I ran some gimpy instance in a PUG for 15 minutes. I would rather play for 1 hour and only get exp then play for 15 and get 4 drops + exp in a instance style dungeon.
What ever happened to grouping for long periods instead of doing a instance and leaving then going to the next one and leaving.
When you have to fight with other guilds to get the end game loot then you'll be wanting that instancing back.
Thats how it was in EQ. One guild would monopolize the spawns. They'd make up calendars for raids so people could take turns. It all worked until one guild decided screw the calendar we're doing what we want when we want. Then it was first come first serve. You'd have two raids trying to race each other through dungeons to get to the end boss, even sometimes trying to kill steal the boss. It was ridiculous.
Instancing is the solution and an improvement.
I would like to see the small group instance against very difficult odds to give your characters the since of accomplishment in an epic movie/book style. Instancing can sort of create this feeling for many people at one time. I see no difference in the level of challenge that can be created for small groups as opposed to large groups.
go play wow then none force you to play aion
Don't have to imagine. That exactly happened to me in EQ many years ago. I wait SIX HOURS .. got to kill the boss like TWICE. Nothing good dropped.
It is a huge failure as a game. WOW instance dungeon is 1000x better. If i want to stare at a screen and chat, i went on MSN.
But imagine if the boss had a great spawn rate (5 mins) and only 2 place holders. Therefore; every 3rd spawn is the boss. Every 15 minutes you get the boss spawned. It takes longer to get to a boss in a "tunnel" style instance that is used in MMO's now. This would work. Doing this allows the game to still feel alive AND you dont have to wait for a boss to spawn for 2 days.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Just do the math. So you got 4 bosses per hour. If 50 groups want to kill it (which is a pretty SMALL number given any sizable server, prob an low estimate), the average wait (assuming u r in teh middle of the queue) is 50*15 min /2 = 375 min = 6 hrs 15 min.
A wow style dungeon, you get to kill roughly 4-5 bosses for an hour or so run .. so the average boss time is 15-20min.
This is not even considering waiting for spawn is BORING, and killing trash, setting up for the boss fight is FUN.
Plus, there will be NO challenge in your scenario since 50 groups can kill it easy (or if 50 cannot, then it will be too hard when you only have 10 people waiting).
Your idea is BAD game design all around.
Yes but in a non-instanced dungeon (think of Karnor's Castle again) there is way over 25 probably 35 named mobs that are killed for loot. In just 1 zone. This is compared to 3-4 mini bosses and a main boss in the end of the zone. This way you get a boss around every 30 mins while at a camp or something.
I want to make it very clear that I am a casual player in the sense that I dont play a whole lot but when I play I want there to be EFFORT put into what I do. I dont want to be handed armour because I ran some gimpy instance in a PUG for 15 minutes. I would rather play for 1 hour and only get exp then play for 15 and get 4 drops + exp in a instance style dungeon.
What ever happened to grouping for long periods instead of doing a instance and leaving then going to the next one and leaving.
That wont be very good. No one (not even blizzard) can afford 25-35 specially designed encounters (boss fights) in a dungeon. You have to resort to named mobs that you can tank & spank. That would be less fun, and less challenging. You can take it to the extreme too .. just spawn 100 mobs with different names from a database but it would be an extremely boring dungeons.
Your second paragraph is totally irrelevant to the idea of instancing. Just look at WOW hard mode encounters. It is an instance but the encounter is so hard that you will wipe and wipe.
There are hard instances and there are easy ones. If you want a hard challenge, complaining about instances is barking up the WRONG TREE.
In fact, non-instance makes it EASIER cause you can bring 100 people and kill the boss trivially.