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Impressions after 100 hours
Thillian
Member UncommonPosts: 3,156
Graphics: B+
I rate the graphics above average. There's a lot of immersion. I like the fact that there's wasteland everywhere, burned houses, car wrecks, ruined pillars, cracked roads etc. This realization of the post-apocalyptic world has more serious mood and is closer to Fallout 1/2, than the jokey version in Fallout 3. It has a lot of Mad Max flavour. Animations, I can't really speak of. I have this weird gift of not noticing good or bad animations. Others say the animations are poor, I think they're OK.
Character Development: C
In my opinion, that's one of the things that went wrong with the game. Sandbox is not defined by no classes - rather by no levels. Fallen Earth has levels, but no classes. Which means, there's still an obvious level progression - you travel from town and town, each serves as a different level hub. At level 10 you will not be able to kill level 20 as anywhere else. Additionally, the class-less system in FE is poorly implemented. There are 9 skills (rifles, pistols, melee, dodge, armor use..) 8 attributes (strength, coordination, dexterity, perception..) that you improve. Then there are 9 tradeskills which levels automatically as you use them, and then there are mutations which you start to improve in sector 2.
The problem with the system is, that it doesn't really allow better customization than class system. Of course you can severly gimp yourself and spend points for crap. But if we consider the best builds, there's only a few. The problem is that each faction gives you special certain ultimate power if you have a combination of some skills -> there's 6 factions -> and logically, if you want to have a decent character, you need to be in one of the faction, and then hope you took the right skills for the faction ultimate power, otherwise you won't get it. It's a combination of a few skills and mutations that has to be maxed and they are not mention anywhere in advance.
Closing words about customization, there's not more choices really for a player as he levels up than in class-like system. Additionally, you can pretty much gimp the character if you spend a few points wrongly (each point wrongly spent could be used somewhere else to improve something you're using).
Mission/Quest System: D-
5500 in game missions is another strong argument to say that FE is a theme park mmo. Sector 1, there's around 10 starting towns, then there's three towns for levels 6-10, two towns 11-14, etc.. Everytime you get to the town for the first town, you run from NPC to NPC and take around 15 new missions. These missions are not final -> you complete one, you get another. They are chained to an extreme and just go on and on and on. You are sent to a camp to kill 10 mobs, you run back, the NPC then send you to kill a different 10 mobs in the same camp, then you get to kill the boss (still in the same camp) and this cycle never ends. You might read the mission dialogues for the first few hours, but after that you stop caring why this guy needs his medkit from his old burned farmhouse that is overrun by giant mutated chickens.
In addition, everything in the game is run by the missions. Most of the good crafting schematics are given as a mission reward. Then there are AP (points you use to improve your character) you also get by doing certain missions. For the best character you basically have to run through every starting town to do its AP missions (without a guide, that's a chore because you can't see whether the mission will give you an AP or not, because it's usually part of a 15 mission chain). Factions give you missions for better gear. PvP wins opens up certain zones with NPCs full of new missions. Of course, there are also repeatable missions. Fallen Earth is a game about missions. You can't go your own way and do whatever you want, because then you miss important crafting schematics, APs, unique weapons, faction rewards etc.
Crafting: B
This is the strongest part of the game. Most of the things in game are craftable. You set up what you want to work on if you have the mats, and then you can do whatever you want (even logging off). Depends on the complexity of the item you're making, it takes anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 hours. If you park your character in the workhouses, the process is faster.
There are certain problems with the crafting and the current economy. Most of the items you need to craft is possible to buy from a vendor. And everyone can have any tradeskills. If you want to be a crafter, the only thing that differs for you is that you also max out intelligence and perception (which you will probably improve anyway, because it also improves your rifle skill) of your character to increase the cap for your tradeskills. In the end, everyone just gathers whatever they want, then buy the rest from the vendors. Currently, there's absolutely no player economy and I still barely used the auctioneers.
Combat, Technical Aspects: D
Interface and combat are best to call slow, unresponsive, and clunky. If you shoot, there's a certain lag and you will surely not feel like shooting in real time. Sometimes even if you think you hit, you didn't. I don't mind the mob AI nor its agro range. It's pretty standard and average in compare to the competitors. Icarus is an indie developer, yet they sell their game for 50$ and 15$ per month, so it has to be compared with the rest of the games with this price. If we say indie developer has less budget, smaller development team, smaller marketing -> then we assume they have lower costs and if they decided to sell their game for 50$, then they pretty much have to compete with the major developers.
Bugs, yet there's a lot of them -> especially you start noticing them more and more in sector 2 and then s3, the worse is the interface and the feel of the play. It doesn't feel good to move, to use anything, to fight, to switch between first person and third person. Everything is slow and clunky.
Overall: C-
Fallen Earth is a post apocalypse theme park mmo with clunky interface, slow combat, solid crafting and great atmosphere. Sandbox is defined by the freedom of the activity and the interaction with the persistent world. There is no interaction in FE with the world, there is no housing, no player killing (outside of zones) no body looting, no politics (factions have fixed relations between each other).
REALITY CHECK
Comments
Theres far too many AP available. Theres far too few skills to choose from. The fact that skills raise their base value (they increase just by leveling) is utterly mind boggling.
I pretty much agree you nailed it with character customisation, there just isnt enough to differentiate yourself to the other couple thousand players.
And the crafting is anything but special. The queue system is either intentionally shithouse, or severely broken. The insane time limits on crafting items have most people wetting their pants in excitement, but it does nothing for the character wanting to be a tradesman, making people wait does not a good crafting system make. Sure, blame it on the "I want it now" crowd, but its been that way since UO.
And this game IS NOT A { Mod Edit: Language } SANDBOX, ITS A GODDAMNED THEMEPARK. You start at point A, level up and move to point B, with no reason to ever return to pojnt A again. Eventually youll move onto point C, so forth and so on.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
I agree to a certain extend with the Thillian, as well as Zymurgeist. Guess it lays somewhere there in the middle.
One positive thing about the quest chains is, that you get quest updates often on the spot, don't have to run back to original quest-give just to return to the same point again (those exist as well, but far less than in WoW or LOTRO).
With regards to customization of skills - I always did wonder how different one would be from others - you read all the tips from chat, and since there is no respec (yet), you probably read forum so you don't waste your points, hence you end up like most others.
Some of the reviews about FE also write about the great char customization in the creator screen. To be honest, they all look alike to me. the biggest difference will be if you do an extreme hair-do (say punk) and maybe an extreme colour such as bright green or pink, otherwise you won't see a difference to someone else. The tatoos - yes, in the face area one sees them, but who cares about body tatoo if you wear armour all the time (and not many RP).
Ah heck, I still like the game, although I am starting to get bored of the post-apocalyptic look. That is the advantage of a fantasy or SciFi game, you can (often) do whatever you want and have a good mix of nice, ugly, horrible, etc.
It sounds to me though, and keep in mind I haven't played the game, that the levels and mission hubs kind of restrict the freedom you'd expect out of a sandbox MMO. And when the other features (PVP for example) are not as well developed, the game perhaps starts feeling less sandbox-y and more themepark-y, as the player is set down upon a more linear path?
Ding ding we have a winner.
Sandboxes allow you to stop, where you are, and still advance in any way you see fit.
Fallen Earth doesnt allow this, due to being a level based MMO. You MUST move on, be it for pve exp or crafting exp.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
I never said a bad word about theme park or a good word about sandbox. My biggest gripe with FE is the mission system, missions are simply everywhere and the chains are way too long, they are way too linear, and having AP as a mission reward is way off. People called this game a sandbox so I expected something else. I bought it actually on the premise that I won't be lead by hand with all these chained missions. Sure you don't need to do them, skip maybe like 25% of all content development that went on these missions, skip AP's from missions, item rewards etc, and just explore around. But then, the world is simply not persistent enough, I can't chop down a tree and build a house, and attack players running around.
REALITY CHECK
Thillian good read. This helped give me a better picture of Fallen Earth as I haven't played it yet. The only thing I would have liked is a recommendation for the type of player that might like the game and why.
Example: If you are looking for a true sandbox mmo, you might be disappointed with Fallen Earth as your character can still level up and it doesn't give you sense of full freedom in character progression. If crafting and exploration is your niche, you might really enjoy this game as it has some of the most detailed crafting I've seen in any mmo.
I have the right to like what I want!
I like the review well done. Only complaint would be you complaining about real time combat in an MMO being clunky. Due to tech. restraints real time MMO combat in a seamless or larged zone world is always going to be clunky.
i also agree with a bit of your review but disagree with the same amount. a c-...no i would give it a solid B and in a few months hopefully an A.i agree they do deserve to be rated with the big boys if they charge the same.my gripes have to do with the pointlessness of a crafting class.whats the point when everyone in the game can craft..this is retarded.i think if your intell is low you should only be able to work 1 crafting profession at a time.that would spread it out a bit.as it is no one is going solid crafter..there isnt a reason to.(sorry had to get this off my chest)other then that im happy with the game as long as i know its gonna get better.this company has done something that no one has nailed down.hybriding fps with an mmo.is it done perfect? nope but there is plenty of room to improve in time i for one plan on sticking around to give them the time.i am tired of orcs and elves.
Right now with the way the genre is headed with all of these new mmo players WOW brought to the genre you cannot release a MMO without a shit ton of quests/missions.
The game would simply be labeled as having no content and most players would move on.
FE has many, many missions to breaking up the endless wandering and raising of skills.
This is not a bad thing and certainly doesn't make FE a themepark.
If anything I would agree its more of a hybrid mmo but after playing the way I wanted ill just label it as open ended and be done with it.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I don't understand what is wrong about tons of missions? The only problem that really makes any sense is the fact that missions give you AP rewards (some of them)... However, you still don't have to do them if you don't want to...feel free to go grind away on mutants somewhere if you want to. I guess what I'm asking is what is the alternative to having them? How would you do faction rewards in a system that didn't have missions? (honest questions here)
Game is definitely not perfect, but it seems more original than the last few MMOs I've tried (EQ2, WoW, Aion, and AoC in my case).
Ningen wa ningen da.
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People will bitch about everything. IN a game like Ryzom with thousands of missions people bitch because they only give money rewards and feel we have no reason to do them.
In FE the rewards are too great so people feel the game isnt a sandbox.
Honestly, you can't make these guys happy. Either the missions give nothing and a game has no content or they give too much and the game isnt a sandbox.
I personally skipped a great deal of the missions and while I agree with most that gated zones kinda messes up that 100% accessible world feel I can deal with that if the skill system is flexible and the remaining high skill level zones are large enough to keep me busy.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
EQ had a fully involved faction system with almost no quests. You got faction for grinding mobs.
If you bought Fallen Earth because someone on MMORPG said it was a sandbox you should seriously reconsider your purchasing policies. I don't think the Devs made any comment about sandbox vs. themepark.
EQ had a fully involved faction system with almost no quests. You got faction for grinding mobs.
If you bought Fallen Earth because someone on MMORPG said it was a sandbox you should seriously reconsider your purchasing policies. I don't think the Devs made any comment about sandbox vs. themepark.
how is grinding faction better then missions?
You used a stereotype. I was stating my opinion. I was not representing some ryzom bashers who wanted better mission rewards.
In my opinion, there should be much less missions, and they should have much more open objectives. It is ridiculous to have a camp of mobs, all looking the same -> but some are called scavangers, and some are called goons and killing one doesn't count for the quest to kill the other. And it's even more ridiculous to be sent back and forth because second part of the chain asks you to kill the other mobs. And if you get throught the chore, you are rewarded by an AP. Boring activity rewarded by very important AP.
Again, these impressions I wrote are highly subjective. Some people might find having 20 missions in their log all the time and following their objectives being an enjoyable gameplay. I'd prefer to explore the ruined structure on the hill just to feed my curiosity rather than being sent there by 5 missions.
REALITY CHECK
I'd say this is a very spot-on review. However i wouldn't have bothered with a final score though [this just throws off the discussion].
What drew me in with this game is the Immersion factor, the world. It's really well done, it's serious and it feels "alive" and like something you can imagine wandering around in. The "features" such as crafting,classless,pvp et al, there's not a single new thing there. Icarus did a good job by "fleshing" out these features properly and launching with everything decently worked out [unlike Champions Online] , with a solid emphasis on crafting which are a side-thought in 99% of other MMOs out now.
Now, on the negative part, i also can feel the linear "themepark tuck" going as i'm town hopping, picking up quests and "clearing a town" . I can't say i've encountered 15-long chains as was mentioned, but certainly encountered being sent back and forth by multiple NPCs to the same camp to kill the same mobs. This mechanism encourages one to pitch up at a town, and take EVERY SINGLE mission because you just know they're going to overlap. And this is where it all becomes themeparky and a linear progression and kinda grindy [it changes your mindset from "explorer" to "achiever"] . You don't read the mission content anymore because you are not actually going through a single continious -chain- you are having to deal with 15 parallel missions which you pick up AT THE SAME TIME. So half the time you don't even know where the heck in the "plot" you are...
I'd actually PREFER a 15-long quest chain over 15 parallel quests at this stage. It's the chain quest that you actually follow, not the one-shotters.
Also each town or "quest hub" got the exact same setup, exact same trainers,merchants so that everything starts to feel generic "rince repeat" mode. I must say Icarus did a good job at making each town at least LOOK,FEEL and even SOUND different. you'll fairly soon avoid certain towns because it's crampy or got a wall around it or is too spread out etc.
In FE, i guess we got the best of both worlds, the convenience factor of mainstream-wow themepark questing and progression and the inconvenience-but-immersive-old-school factor which involves time consuming crafting and traveling all nicely combined in a world that is believable and consistent.
[again compare to Champions with it's totally disjointed/sharded approach where you go from a robot-cowboy invested ghost town in the desert to a demon filled underground high tech facility in a city ] .
lmfao. totally agree.
Well, now that's your fault, isn't it? I dare say I've been one of the very few who have been on this forum since alpha. A long time relatively speaking. And in that time, since it was allowed, I have said this is a Hybrid game, if anything. Long before people started jumping on the bandwagon after launch and before people started coming to this forum. There were a couple others that said the same as I. Those folks, most likely, had been in the game for as long as I have (Gamespot Alpha contest) or longer.
Yet, you choose to listen to folks who came in way after we had and who, unfortunately, confused sandbox elements with just a flat sandbox statement. Which it's easy to understand as FE offers more sanboxy elements than the other AAA drivel being produced and has more plans to add more of those elements than said games.
You listened to the wrong people and the game isn't the one at fault for that. You are.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
AP rewards for missions killed the game for me. Leveling to 45 gets you 880 AP. Missions can push you to about 1100 depending on how much you farm faction in S2. While I don't mind doing some questing doing endless streams of grey quests to keep your character from being gimped is boring (10 starter towns all with AP missions).
Crafting is broad but not deep. It's a recipe system. You learn the recipe, gather materials and hit craft. It's broad in that you can craft anything in game and making your first scoped rifle is a good feeling. To make it deep you need to go beyond the recipe system and allow crafter input allow the crafter to select whether they want a long barrel (range), wide barrel (aoe), or short barrel (stability). FE crafting is better then most other games since it is broader but it's still the same system at heart.
Ding ding we have a winner.
Sandboxes allow you to stop, where you are, and still advance in any way you see fit.
Fallen Earth doesnt allow this, due to being a level based MMO. You MUST move on, be it for pve exp or crafting exp.
Yes it does, every successful action grants XP. The only thing level is used for in this game is some loot and crafting requirements, that's it.
The quests are optional, completely. So are the rewards they give. You can do anything you want in the game, you guys however are treating the optional parts f the game, as the only way to advance, and this isnt true.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Bingo.
After playing for a while, this is what I'm feeling. The game is coming off felling like a themepark with slightly more freedom. The canned response of "well the game is only what you make of it! D8!" gets thrown out, but its a cop-out response. If you ignore the quests you ignore the background and the game becomes a leveling shooting gallery where you just grind mobs in their little areas and move on to the next. If you follow the quests then you're tied pretty firmly to the rails. The bottom line is, Quests are not optional unless you want to pointlessly grind.
Basically, the game make it seem like it wants you to go out and explore, but in reality you're tied to the town hubs and quest lines if you want the game to be any more than a grind due to the ap/level system. If it was one or the other, it might not be so bad, but right now it just feels like it's teasing you with the promise of a true sandbox experience, and it sucks. One of the sticking points was crafting, where I scavenged a higher quality piece of wood from a scrap pile, so I couldn't finish the damn recipe because I needed a lower quality piece which apparently required going back to a lower level area. How the hell does that work in a sandbox game?
Original doesn't automatically mean "fun". It's definitely novel, but that novelty wears off quickly once you realize you're doing the same thing you're doing in every other MMO with slightly more freedom. If you're going to strip away objectives and goals for actually wanting to play the game, you need to actually give the freedom to replace them with your own. Throwing you the option to grind or quest is not a solution.
It's a shame because as housing system would have been fun and I was looking forward to that going in eventually.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
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Obviously, you can always say missions and quests are optional everywhere. You can just grind your way up to the cap level. The question is, how much content are you willing to skip that was developed and for which you paid for.
I wouldn't mind really if the missions just give some chips/items reward whatever. Instead, missions give crucial APs, unique schematics for crafting (I'm not talking about the basic ones, there are lots of unique named recipes directly related with the town where you got that mission), important faction reputation that further improves your character power , etc.Key point is, that If you don't do missions, you significantly reduce the amount of content you can do. Missions are not really optional in Fallen Earth, they play a crucial role in all spheres of playing.
REALITY CHECK
Well let's call it a 'sandscape' game then, rather than a sandbox. I'm fine either way
My brand new bloggity blog.
I would also give the game a C-, in addition of what you said, the community on FE is so elitist and anal. This may change in the future if more guilds are created and mature people subscribe. And I thought that WAR's community was bad.
I was in early Closed Beta and the grade I gave it then was F-
haven't played since so keep the reviews a coming.
Xan of CoVE
I miss shadowbane