Dude, Even playing the game is optional, so whatever you do in it, is optional If I decide that I wanna stay low level, because I can have fun that way as well, then I can do it. It is only an option to level up I'm sorry, but we are speaking at totally different planes of discussion, so I should have stopped at "further discussion is pointless" in my previous post, as you are just not able to grasp my mindset at all DB
Donnie, as you just said. Everything is optional in every game. So to say, doing missions is optional is not a valid argument. It's like saying - sure you don't like to level up in lotro? Just stay level 1 and run around naked in Bree, because leveling is optional.
I repeat myself. The game heavily rewards you to do as many of the 5500 missions as possible. They not only reward you with unique AP (that you will lose if you don't do the quest - your character is capped at around 1100 APs, and without doing missions, you'll end up with 800)but also unique - crafting schematics, faction rewards, mounts and motorcycles etc. Winning in PvP also gives you just more missions first before you get rewards -> everything in this game is driven by missions. Sure they are optional, and you can avoid them, but then you miss huge part of the content for which you paid for.
The problem with the system is, that it doesn't really allow better customization than class system. Of course you can severly gimp yourself and spend points for crap. But if we consider the best builds, there's only a few.
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
Dude, Even playing the game is optional, so whatever you do in it, is optional If I decide that I wanna stay low level, because I can have fun that way as well, then I can do it. It is only an option to level up I'm sorry, but we are speaking at totally different planes of discussion, so I should have stopped at "further discussion is pointless" in my previous post, as you are just not able to grasp my mindset at all DB
Donnie, as you just said. Everything is optional in every game. So to say, doing missions is optional is not a valid argument. It's like saying - sure you don't like to level up in lotro? Just stay level 1 and run around naked in Bree, because leveling is optional.
I repeat myself. The game heavily rewards you to do as many of the 5500 missions as possible. They not only reward you with unique AP (that you will lose if you don't do the quest - your character is capped at around 1100 APs, and without doing missions, you'll end up with 800)but also unique - crafting schematics, faction rewards, mounts and motorcycles etc. Winning in PvP also gives you just more missions first before you get rewards -> everything in this game is driven by missions. Sure they are optional, and you can avoid them, but then you miss huge part of the content for which you paid for.
That's a much more logical and well-thought argument, thank you!
Well, I have yet to see S2 and above, and especially factions quests, so I would be able to judge better. So far in S1 i have been running around in most towns, doing grey quests, more for fun than anything else (they don't really give XP, rewards are useless, and only a few gives AP), since I liked the stories (same as in Lotro:). Still, I could have levelled my toon and played the game if I haven't done any of those. The only exception was the ATV quest line, but only because I want to have a carrier in vehicle manufacturing ingame
If there will be any more missions that are so seriously restrictive, I would tend to agree more with your point, but I have yet to see those! So far I have really felt that quests are just one choosable aspect of the game, and not vital in any (most) ways.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
The problem with the system is, that it doesn't really allow better customization than class system. Of course you can severly gimp yourself and spend points for crap. But if we consider the best builds, there's only a few.
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
You need to consider that the level cap is 45 - but only for now. It' planned to be increased to 120 minimum, possibly to 150. So, whoever cannot get those fancy fashion uber traits at 45 due to not having done all AP quests, would still be able to get them after the first expansion with level cap increase. This could be a decision on purpose - we shall see.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
The problem with the system is, that it doesn't really allow better customization than class system. Of course you can severly gimp yourself and spend points for crap. But if we consider the best builds, there's only a few.
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
Yeah 6 strong builds the other maybe crap, although I can see some combination of rifle and pistol skills without having the top rifle skill to be very viable, i don't know since i am not high enough level to comment.
But at least it allows you, as once suggested here:
Thillian circa 2008: "There are games that allow you to be whatever you want to be. You can be a main healer, wear a leather armor, hide in shadows and make poisons for your deadly arrows at the same time. Or you can be a little clumsy mage wearing a plate mail reanimating dead bodies into skeletons. THERE ARE GAMES OUT THERE THAT ALLOW IT."
Of course being the main healer and hiding in shadows will no doubt be a crap build(for a main healer as you will be gimped on other improtant skill that are required by the main healer) but at least it allows it ;-)
I just thought that you would love this class system, given your way of thinking in 2008!
Not really. At that time I was talking about DDo - and there are -- let's say hundreds of possible equally strong builds including the ones I mentioned. In FE -> the main problem are the ultimate powers. Without the proper combination of mutations and skills, you will miss out powerful ultimate faction ability. (Rifle ranged stun for instance) Each faction has 1 unique combination, so there's 6 builds(classes).
Not really. At that time I was talking about DDo - and there are -- let's say hundreds of possible equally strong builds including the ones I mentioned. In FE -> the main problem are the ultimate powers. Without the proper combination of mutations and skills, you will miss out powerful ultimate faction ability. (Rifle ranged stun for instance) Each faction has 1 unique combination, so there's 6 builds(classes).
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out. Note that i am new to this game so cannot really substantiate anything.
Not really. At that time I was talking about DDo - and there are -- let's say hundreds of possible equally strong builds including the ones I mentioned. In FE -> the main problem are the ultimate powers. Without the proper combination of mutations and skills, you will miss out powerful ultimate faction ability. (Rifle ranged stun for instance) Each faction has 1 unique combination, so there's 6 builds(classes).
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out.
I posted here my impressions with the current state of the game. We should take a lesson from the past -> potential and promises are rarely fullfilled.
Frankly I realize the rating C- I put here was no fair to the game without first saying what it actually means and how it compares with the rest. To clarify, I would rate most of the last years game releases between C and D. It reflects my disappointment with the genre lately.
Still, I keep playing FE and there's a certain quality in it. Sometimes I feel FE is the worst game I've ever played, and sometimes I feel like it's the best one.
One last sentence: A game does NOT force anything on you. YOU yourself force any kind stuff on you, because of the mindset you have when playing. In this case, your mindset is the urge of not being "inferior" to those others who can only imagine playing with a "maxxed out" character, whatever that means in a certain game. Trust me, it's not the only way of playing an MMO DB
Not saying you need every last AP. You will eventually come up against things you can't do if you skipped a substantial number of them though. Maybe you don't care if you get face rolled but most people do. Sure you could play an MMO to stand in the town square roleplaying the village idiot if you wanted. Most people don't though. You can stop making assumptions about how I play MMOs and my mindset now. You couldn't be further off the mark.
All you do is making assumptions on how others play . At least now you are saying "most", instead of just generalizing these things to everyone in game.
I never PVP, so I could not care less about how über other folks are It's probably hard to grasp, but I see quite clearly so far why some people have no way of imagining how other folk's playstyle can be enitre different from theirs, and how in these people's eyes the option of doing missions for AP is not a fault - at all.
The game has a certain way of maxing your AP. It is a design decision. Some people don't like it, some others do, many others don't care. None of them are right or wrong, it's just a reflection of their own mindset what they think about it. Maybe some day you'll see this
Good day to you
DB
I'm sorry, is there something about the word assumptions you don't understand? When people do something it's not an assumption. Its an action. You clear on that now? I'm not assuming people are doing these things they are telling me they are and the reasons for it. (some certainly do, while others, who don't mind it - don't. You have no info about the latter, do you?) I'm watching them do them. (and you don't see those who don't, do you?) That's an observation not an assumption.(yes, the assumption part is this: you assume, that those you don't see, do the same) Are you clear on what an assumption is yet? There's nothing hard to grasp here. You are in the minority . (in your assumption only) Trying to apply your opinions to the majority (this is what YOU do actually, not me, see above) when you're in the minority (assumed by you) is simply bullshit. It is a flaw in the game (no, it's a decision that you and some others don't like) and many players see it as a flaw.(is that admitting - finally - that not everyone sees it as flaw? A breakthrough, wow:) It may not be a flaw that affects you because of your playstyle (yes! light in the tunnel) but that makes it no less a flaw to the people who need to grind those AP or become whipping boys (you're finally getting a grasp of the whole idea, nice . The flaw isn't even that those AP exist it's that the method of obtaining them and the level at which they are introduced is poorly integrated into game play. (Again, not a flaw, a decision, that SOME people - you ASSUME the majority) don't like.)
Comments with green, and assumptions highlighted in red. If you still don't get it (although by the second half of your paragraph you're getting there, slowly , then I'm afraid there IS really nothing here left to do.
Check the OP's comments and my replies to those. There IS conversation to be had, but sadly, not with people who are completely overconfident that their point of view is the only one in known existence
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Not really. At that time I was talking about DDo - and there are -- let's say hundreds of possible equally strong builds including the ones I mentioned. In FE -> the main problem are the ultimate powers. Without the proper combination of mutations and skills, you will miss out powerful ultimate faction ability. (Rifle ranged stun for instance) Each faction has 1 unique combination, so there's 6 builds(classes).
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out.
I posted here my impressions with the current state of the game. We should take a lesson from the past -> potential and promises are rarely fullfilled.
Frankly I realize the rating C- I put here was no fair to the game without first saying what it actually means and how it compares with the rest. To clarify, I would rate most of the last years game releases between C and D. It reflects my disappointment with the genre lately.
Still, I keep playing FE and there's a certain quality in it. Sometimes I feel FE is the worst game I've ever played, and sometimes I feel like it's the best one.
It's natural to be careful with promises, but it has been said many times that the level cap will grow - I'd really not doubt that, given the fact the S4 is already done, while S5 is in the tube....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
i see where DB is coming from, i play mmos 1 to cap once i hit cap i either find another game or reroll so saying im gimped because i dont have as manny AP's at 45 as you, fine ill be 45 for maby a couple days. 1-45 how much diff is there between all caped ap toon and one that missed all extra ap quests? Little at first more so later lvls,enuff to malke me change my play style? nope but each his own
I plan to play during further expansions, where the level cap is increased. This game is about adventure and creating stuff for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone with that. It's the journey, or so they say.
Clearly, some people have serious problems even imagining this, but I've decided to let them live in their world from now on
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Buy a dictionary. Look up the words assumption and observation and the phrase empirical evidence. If you still don't get it you're beyond hope and conversing with you is a waste of time because I can only assume you are incapable of understanding simple English. The "decision" it is what is flawed. How do I know what people I don't see in the game are doing? I ask them, I read the forums and I follow the trends. That's not accurate enough to give a percentage but it's enough to determine a simple majority. (sorry to break your bubble, but it isn't) I grasp that you think yuor opinion is more accurate (I never said that, but on the contrary: I said that mine is only another opinion, better word: mindset of playing the game) than the opinion of the majority (??) of people playing the game despite all evidence to the contary (I did not see any evidence, sorry).. I grasp that despite the evidence (again, what evidence please?) to the contrary you're asserting I'm in the minority (I have never said that you are, putting words in my mouth is clearly a sign of arguing from a desparate, lost position, sorry). in saying it's a flaw. That is, as I said, bullshit. And again, that is only your opinion
No evidence = assumption.
I have (quite rightly) observed earlier, that it's pointless to argue with you, since your arguing is just as flexible as a crystall ball. You don't even try to understand or imagine that there could be people who actually don't aim to, or at least don't mind/don't care about maxing their toons - in the same way, there are folks who don't mind riding through the whole map doing low level quest for that extra AP. Lastly - effort-reward. So simple, yet so alluding you still now :)Since there is no hope for you to grasp this concept, the very last thing I'll say, is that I never said that your are the minority, and never said I am not. I just said (and it's the truth), that neither you, nor I can prove either
Not sure if you'll see what I mean, but still, for the readers
And NO, it is NOT a flaw... it's a game mechanic decision that YOU and some others don't like, and this is true for EVERY design decision of EVERY game Trust me
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I pretty much agree you nailed it with character customisation, there just isnt enough to differentiate yourself to the other couple thousand players.
To me it's not about if I can make a character that is different than everyone else but if I can make a character I enjoy. In FE if I want pistols and rifle but not crafting, I can. If I want rifles and melee and the ability to take a hit, I can. I can mix and match whatever skills I want from any in the game with a trade off if I want them all. This is the advantage to me over a class based system... the fact that I can focus or hybrid as much as I care in any way.
Honestly, with thousands and thousands of players you'll never make a unique character. There is a finite set of worthwhile possibilities. I guess that's what your personality is for... much like real life.
But then generally those that say they want to be distinct really mean they want to be best and usually for PvP because they want to pwn everyone and faceroll them. And it is for just that reason that they all end up using the same "uber" spec and build after scouring the forums and someone else tells them what is best for them regardless of their play style. They are the same ones that feel if they get a single AP out of place they are suddenly gimped and pissed off because it's not the absolute best build possible. It's a play style I don't get. But that's at the core of a lot of arguments on this forum... it's really about the PvE rpg'r versus the PvP competitive player.
FE is a hybrid sandbox/theme park pve/pvp game. Any amount of following it and you would know that. So I am not surprised the sandbox purists and the PvP'rs (often the same people) don't like it. Personally, I do.
I do concur on the gear being pretty bland and looking the same'ish. But again, there is a finite set so that will happen in every MMO.
I pretty much agree you nailed it with character customisation, there just isnt enough to differentiate yourself to the other couple thousand players.
To me it's not about if I can make a character that is different than everyone else but if I can make a character I enjoy. In FE if I want pistols and rifle but not crafting, I can. If I want rifles and melee and the ability to take a hit, I can. I can mix and match whatever skills I want from any in the game with a trade off if I want them all. This is the advantage to me over a class based system... the fact that I can focus or hybrid as much as I care in any way.
Honestly, with thousands and thousands of players you'll never make a unique character. There is a finite set of worthwhile possibilities. I guess that's what your personality is for... much like real life.
But then generally those that say they want to be distinct really mean they want to be best and usually for PvP because they want to pwn everyone and faceroll them. And it is for just that reason that they all end up using the same "uber" spec and build after scouring the forums and someone else tells them what is best for them regardless of their play style. They are the same ones that feel if they get a single AP out of place they are suddenly gimped and pissed off because it's not the absolute best build possible. It's a play style I don't get. But that's at the core of a lot of arguments on this forum... it's really about the PvE rpg'r versus the PvP competitive player.
FE is a hybrid sandbox/theme park pve/pvp game. Any amount of following it and you would know that. So I am not surprised the sandbox purists and the PvP'rs (often the same people) don't like it. Personally, I do.
I do concur on the gear being pretty bland and looking the same'ish. But again, there is a finite set so that will happen in every MMO.
Glad to see this post, this is precisely how I feel about this game. I have no problems admitting that I am not a competitive, "must-max-out-to-own" type of player, and I also do accept that other people are like that.... credit where it's due. But if the "other side" is overtly self--confident, stating that the mechanics supporting their style are the only correct ones, and any mechanics not supporting it, or not making it the easiest for them, are somehow "flawed", I just can't help to pinpoint that they are wrong. Silly me, I also tried to explain why. Won't happen again, as competitiveness obviously does not allow the type of argument, where both parties see and understand, let alone accept each others points
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I plan to play during further expansions, where the level cap is increased. This game is about adventure and creating stuff for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone with that. It's the journey, or so they say. Clearly, some people have serious problems even imagining this, but I've decided to let them live in their world from now on DB
WoW, you're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to race to the level cap and complain about every repetitive task you need to do along the way. Then, once you're at the level cap you can either lord over everyone that didn't race to the cap like you or complain that there is nothing to do, or both. Either way you're supposed to make a loud and noisy post about how Fallen Earth has failed and that you're not going to subscribe. Maybe one day you'll figure out that this is the only right way to play a MMOG.
I plan to play during further expansions, where the level cap is increased. This game is about adventure and creating stuff for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone with that. It's the journey, or so they say. Clearly, some people have serious problems even imagining this, but I've decided to let them live in their world from now on DB
WoW, you're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to race to the level cap and complain about every repetitive task you need to do along the way. Then, once you're at the level cap you can either lord over everyone that didn't race to the cap like you or complain that there is nothing to do, or both. Either way you're supposed to make a loud and noisy post about how Fallen Earth has failed and that you're not going to subscribe. Maybe one day you'll figure out that this is the only right way to play a MMOG.
NOW I think it wasn't pointless posting in this thread... you just made my day... Still laughing )) thanks mate!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Ignoring the grades associated, the have a very similar opinion about FE to the op. I think my main 'beef' with Icarus and FE are some of the design decisions behind the game - most of which the op brings to light.
For example, why not offer other ways for players to earn AP outside of quests and leveling? Leveling is a given but now you 'have' to go through all those quests just so you can get the maximum amount of AP. Its really no different if Blizzard decided that in order to go from 80-90 you would only be able to gain exp from only quests. Considering the nature of this game, I would have designed it such that there would be a pool of AP not gained through normal leveling. Those AP could be unlocked through a variety of means (pvp, crafting, questing, harvesting) - essentially rewarding all gameplay styles and allow the player to choose how he/she earns those extra AP points.
Well, this is my question: If you can max 4 stats and 5 skills, how are you going to claim your character is gimped if you don't have as many AP's as player B, who is still limited to the 4 stats/5 skills, but just has some extra points stuck somewhere else? Honestly, if you can't kill characters with 880 AP, having 1000 ain't gonna help you.
People are so worried about the min/max that they don't even consider the actual mechanics of the game. It's like anything else. Always follow the KISS recipe. You get too many skills and you're not going to be able to use them in a fight, which means you'll generally be using the same ones. So then all those extra points you may have in other skills have just become pretty much useless.
Well, this is my question: If you can max 4 stats and 5 skills, how are you going to claim your character is gimped if you don't have as many AP's as player B, who is still limited to the 4 stats/5 skills, but just has some extra points stuck somewhere else? Honestly, if you can't kill characters with 880 AP, having 1000 ain't gonna help you. People are so worried about the min/max that they don't even consider the actual mechanics of the game. It's like anything else. Always follow the KISS recipe. You get too many skills and you're not going to be able to use them in a fight, which means you'll generally be using the same ones. So then all those extra points you may have in other skills have just become pretty much useless.
Furthermore, with every new expansion there will be new AP to gain by level, most possibly AP to gain by new missions, and who knows what other ways to gain AP? There will come new über-skills with factions etc, suddenly the old 45 level capped überbuilds and skills will be nothing. Those who had always been running for that super-top-mega carrot on the stick will just keep running and running, while basically having no idea how fun it is just to be roaming around in this game, like showing off your dune buggy in a starter town :DD LOL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Well, this is my question: If you can max 4 stats and 5 skills, how are you going to claim your character is gimped if you don't have as many AP's as player B, who is still limited to the 4 stats/5 skills, but just has some extra points stuck somewhere else? Honestly, if you can't kill characters with 880 AP, having 1000 ain't gonna help you. People are so worried about the min/max that they don't even consider the actual mechanics of the game. It's like anything else. Always follow the KISS recipe. You get too many skills and you're not going to be able to use them in a fight, which means you'll generally be using the same ones. So then all those extra points you may have in other skills have just become pretty much useless.
Well said twhint. I used the char planner, started with a based 880 for level 45 and figured I'd get around 200 AP from missions (the bonus AP). 200 bonus AP is the estimated realistic amount a player will attain. The max bonus AP is 270, which requires faction flipping and just isn't feasible to do (you end up hated by all factions pretty much). I still end up with 5 stats maxed and 4 skills maxed with some leftover to spread in skills (though not enough to max one).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
Donnie, as you just said. Everything is optional in every game. So to say, doing missions is optional is not a valid argument. It's like saying - sure you don't like to level up in lotro? Just stay level 1 and run around naked in Bree, because leveling is optional.
I repeat myself. The game heavily rewards you to do as many of the 5500 missions as possible. They not only reward you with unique AP (that you will lose if you don't do the quest - your character is capped at around 1100 APs, and without doing missions, you'll end up with 800)but also unique - crafting schematics, faction rewards, mounts and motorcycles etc. Winning in PvP also gives you just more missions first before you get rewards -> everything in this game is driven by missions. Sure they are optional, and you can avoid them, but then you miss huge part of the content for which you paid for.
REALITY CHECK
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
REALITY CHECK
Donnie, as you just said. Everything is optional in every game. So to say, doing missions is optional is not a valid argument. It's like saying - sure you don't like to level up in lotro? Just stay level 1 and run around naked in Bree, because leveling is optional.
I repeat myself. The game heavily rewards you to do as many of the 5500 missions as possible. They not only reward you with unique AP (that you will lose if you don't do the quest - your character is capped at around 1100 APs, and without doing missions, you'll end up with 800)but also unique - crafting schematics, faction rewards, mounts and motorcycles etc. Winning in PvP also gives you just more missions first before you get rewards -> everything in this game is driven by missions. Sure they are optional, and you can avoid them, but then you miss huge part of the content for which you paid for.
That's a much more logical and well-thought argument, thank you!
Well, I have yet to see S2 and above, and especially factions quests, so I would be able to judge better. So far in S1 i have been running around in most towns, doing grey quests, more for fun than anything else (they don't really give XP, rewards are useless, and only a few gives AP), since I liked the stories (same as in Lotro:). Still, I could have levelled my toon and played the game if I haven't done any of those. The only exception was the ATV quest line, but only because I want to have a carrier in vehicle manufacturing ingame
If there will be any more missions that are so seriously restrictive, I would tend to agree more with your point, but I have yet to see those! So far I have really felt that quests are just one choosable aspect of the game, and not vital in any (most) ways.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
You need to consider that the level cap is 45 - but only for now. It' planned to be increased to 120 minimum, possibly to 150. So, whoever cannot get those fancy fashion uber traits at 45 due to not having done all AP quests, would still be able to get them after the first expansion with level cap increase. This could be a decision on purpose - we shall see.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
There are no predefined classes here yes. In the past you have argued that "indiviudal customisation" is better than "pre-defined" as shown here
And now you argue in the opposite direction, have you changed your mind since then maybe?
As with talents(that use sliders int, str,wis), when you consider the best build, there's only a few.
And in fact as i pointed out at the time, with a Rogue, only 1 best build.
No, you only cut a part you liked to make it look good for you. I said, the skill system fails in FE because unless you want to be severly gimped, you gotta follow certain build in order to get the faction ultimate ability - which is far more powerful than any other ability you can get. There are 6 factions, so one might say there are only six equally strong builds and the rest is crap.
Yeah 6 strong builds the other maybe crap, although I can see some combination of rifle and pistol skills without having the top rifle skill to be very viable, i don't know since i am not high enough level to comment.
But at least it allows you, as once suggested here:
Thillian circa 2008: "There are games that allow you to be whatever you want to be. You can be a main healer, wear a leather armor, hide in shadows and make poisons for your deadly arrows at the same time. Or you can be a little clumsy mage wearing a plate mail reanimating dead bodies into skeletons. THERE ARE GAMES OUT THERE THAT ALLOW IT."
Of course being the main healer and hiding in shadows will no doubt be a crap build(for a main healer as you will be gimped on other improtant skill that are required by the main healer) but at least it allows it ;-)
I just thought that you would love this class system, given your way of thinking in 2008!
Ok, just finished reading the whole thread and all I have to say is this: Donnie, you love patronizing people don't you?
Not really. At that time I was talking about DDo - and there are -- let's say hundreds of possible equally strong builds including the ones I mentioned. In FE -> the main problem are the ultimate powers. Without the proper combination of mutations and skills, you will miss out powerful ultimate faction ability. (Rifle ranged stun for instance) Each faction has 1 unique combination, so there's 6 builds(classes).
REALITY CHECK
Nope, I'm only allergic to short-sightedness, and self-centered POV's
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out. Note that i am new to this game so cannot really substantiate anything.
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out.
I posted here my impressions with the current state of the game. We should take a lesson from the past -> potential and promises are rarely fullfilled.
Frankly I realize the rating C- I put here was no fair to the game without first saying what it actually means and how it compares with the rest. To clarify, I would rate most of the last years game releases between C and D. It reflects my disappointment with the genre lately.
Still, I keep playing FE and there's a certain quality in it. Sometimes I feel FE is the worst game I've ever played, and sometimes I feel like it's the best one.
REALITY CHECK
Not saying you need every last AP. You will eventually come up against things you can't do if you skipped a substantial number of them though. Maybe you don't care if you get face rolled but most people do. Sure you could play an MMO to stand in the town square roleplaying the village idiot if you wanted. Most people don't though. You can stop making assumptions about how I play MMOs and my mindset now. You couldn't be further off the mark.
All you do is making assumptions on how others play
. At least now you are saying "most", instead of just generalizing these things to everyone in game.
I never PVP, so I could not care less about how über other folks are
It's probably hard to grasp, but I see quite clearly so far why some people have no way of imagining how other folk's playstyle can be enitre different from theirs, and how in these people's eyes the option of doing missions for AP is not a fault - at all.
The game has a certain way of maxing your AP. It is a design decision. Some people don't like it, some others do, many others don't care. None of them are right or wrong, it's just a reflection of their own mindset what they think about it. Maybe some day you'll see this
Good day to you
DB
I'm sorry, is there something about the word assumptions you don't understand? When people do something it's not an assumption. Its an action. You clear on that now? I'm not assuming people are doing these things they are telling me they are and the reasons for it. (some certainly do, while others, who don't mind it - don't. You have no info about the latter, do you?) I'm watching them do them. (and you don't see those who don't, do you?) That's an observation not an assumption.(yes, the assumption part is this: you assume, that those you don't see, do the same) Are you clear on what an assumption is yet? There's nothing hard to grasp here. You are in the minority . (in your assumption only) Trying to apply your opinions to the majority (this is what YOU do actually, not me, see above) when you're in the minority (assumed by you) is simply bullshit. It is a flaw in the game (no, it's a decision that you and some others don't like) and many players see it as a flaw.(is that admitting - finally - that not everyone sees it as flaw? A breakthrough, wow:) It may not be a flaw that affects you because of your playstyle (yes! light in the tunnel) but that makes it no less a flaw to the people who need to grind those AP or become whipping boys (you're finally getting a grasp of the whole idea, nice
. The flaw isn't even that those AP exist it's that the method of obtaining them and the level at which they are introduced is poorly integrated into game play. (Again, not a flaw, a decision, that SOME people - you ASSUME the majority) don't like.)
Comments with green, and assumptions highlighted in red. If you still don't get it (although by the second half of your paragraph you're getting there, slowly
, then I'm afraid there IS really nothing here left to do.
Check the OP's comments and my replies to those. There IS conversation to be had, but sadly, not with people who are completely overconfident that their point of view is the only one in known existence
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Yes indeed, in its current form.
Although the game, FE is far from finished, as there are 150 lvls planned. Combined with the ability to move from faction to faction it may not be as rigid as you make out.
I posted here my impressions with the current state of the game. We should take a lesson from the past -> potential and promises are rarely fullfilled.
Frankly I realize the rating C- I put here was no fair to the game without first saying what it actually means and how it compares with the rest. To clarify, I would rate most of the last years game releases between C and D. It reflects my disappointment with the genre lately.
Still, I keep playing FE and there's a certain quality in it. Sometimes I feel FE is the worst game I've ever played, and sometimes I feel like it's the best one.
It's natural to be careful with promises, but it has been said many times that the level cap will grow - I'd really not doubt that, given the fact the S4 is already done, while S5 is in the tube....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Thank you for the info on the game. I'm going to wait for a retail price drop before I dive in and give it a try.
Momo sucks, I have proof.
i see where DB is coming from, i play mmos 1 to cap once i hit cap i either find another game or reroll
so saying im gimped because i dont have as manny AP's at 45 as you, fine ill be 45 for maby a couple days.
1-45 how much diff is there between all caped ap toon and one that missed all extra ap quests?
Little at first more so later lvls,enuff to malke me change my play style? nope but each his own
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I plan to play during further expansions, where the level cap is increased. This game is about adventure and creating stuff for me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone with that. It's the journey, or so they say.
Clearly, some people have serious problems even imagining this, but I've decided to let them live in their world from now on
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
No evidence = assumption.
I have (quite rightly) observed earlier, that it's pointless to argue with you, since your arguing is just as flexible as a crystall ball. You don't even try to understand or imagine that there could be people who actually don't aim to, or at least don't mind/don't care about maxing their toons - in the same way, there are folks who don't mind riding through the whole map doing low level quest for that extra AP. Lastly - effort-reward. So simple, yet so alluding you still now :)Since there is no hope for you to grasp this concept, the very last thing I'll say, is that I never said that your are the minority, and never said I am not. I just said (and it's the truth), that neither you, nor I can prove either
Not sure if you'll see what I mean, but still, for the readers
And NO, it is NOT a flaw... it's a game mechanic decision that YOU and some others don't like, and this is true for EVERY design decision of EVERY game
Trust me 
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To me it's not about if I can make a character that is different than everyone else but if I can make a character I enjoy. In FE if I want pistols and rifle but not crafting, I can. If I want rifles and melee and the ability to take a hit, I can. I can mix and match whatever skills I want from any in the game with a trade off if I want them all. This is the advantage to me over a class based system... the fact that I can focus or hybrid as much as I care in any way.
Honestly, with thousands and thousands of players you'll never make a unique character. There is a finite set of worthwhile possibilities. I guess that's what your personality is for... much like real life.
But then generally those that say they want to be distinct really mean they want to be best and usually for PvP because they want to pwn everyone and faceroll them. And it is for just that reason that they all end up using the same "uber" spec and build after scouring the forums and someone else tells them what is best for them regardless of their play style. They are the same ones that feel if they get a single AP out of place they are suddenly gimped and pissed off because it's not the absolute best build possible. It's a play style I don't get. But that's at the core of a lot of arguments on this forum... it's really about the PvE rpg'r versus the PvP competitive player.
FE is a hybrid sandbox/theme park pve/pvp game. Any amount of following it and you would know that. So I am not surprised the sandbox purists and the PvP'rs (often the same people) don't like it. Personally, I do.
I do concur on the gear being pretty bland and looking the same'ish. But again, there is a finite set so that will happen in every MMO.
To me it's not about if I can make a character that is different than everyone else but if I can make a character I enjoy. In FE if I want pistols and rifle but not crafting, I can. If I want rifles and melee and the ability to take a hit, I can. I can mix and match whatever skills I want from any in the game with a trade off if I want them all. This is the advantage to me over a class based system... the fact that I can focus or hybrid as much as I care in any way.
Honestly, with thousands and thousands of players you'll never make a unique character. There is a finite set of worthwhile possibilities. I guess that's what your personality is for... much like real life.
But then generally those that say they want to be distinct really mean they want to be best and usually for PvP because they want to pwn everyone and faceroll them. And it is for just that reason that they all end up using the same "uber" spec and build after scouring the forums and someone else tells them what is best for them regardless of their play style. They are the same ones that feel if they get a single AP out of place they are suddenly gimped and pissed off because it's not the absolute best build possible. It's a play style I don't get. But that's at the core of a lot of arguments on this forum... it's really about the PvE rpg'r versus the PvP competitive player.
FE is a hybrid sandbox/theme park pve/pvp game. Any amount of following it and you would know that. So I am not surprised the sandbox purists and the PvP'rs (often the same people) don't like it. Personally, I do.
I do concur on the gear being pretty bland and looking the same'ish. But again, there is a finite set so that will happen in every MMO.
Glad to see this post, this is precisely how I feel about this game. I have no problems admitting that I am not a competitive, "must-max-out-to-own" type of player, and I also do accept that other people are like that.... credit where it's due. But if the "other side" is overtly self--confident, stating that the mechanics supporting their style are the only correct ones, and any mechanics not supporting it, or not making it the easiest for them, are somehow "flawed", I just can't help to pinpoint that they are wrong. Silly me, I also tried to explain why. Won't happen again, as competitiveness obviously does not allow the type of argument, where both parties see and understand, let alone accept each others points
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
WoW, you're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to race to the level cap and complain about every repetitive task you need to do along the way. Then, once you're at the level cap you can either lord over everyone that didn't race to the cap like you or complain that there is nothing to do, or both. Either way you're supposed to make a loud and noisy post about how Fallen Earth has failed and that you're not going to subscribe. Maybe one day you'll figure out that this is the only right way to play a MMOG.
WoW, you're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to race to the level cap and complain about every repetitive task you need to do along the way. Then, once you're at the level cap you can either lord over everyone that didn't race to the cap like you or complain that there is nothing to do, or both. Either way you're supposed to make a loud and noisy post about how Fallen Earth has failed and that you're not going to subscribe. Maybe one day you'll figure out that this is the only right way to play a MMOG.
NOW I think it wasn't pointless posting in this thread... you just made my day... Still laughing
)) thanks mate!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Ignoring the grades associated, the have a very similar opinion about FE to the op. I think my main 'beef' with Icarus and FE are some of the design decisions behind the game - most of which the op brings to light.
For example, why not offer other ways for players to earn AP outside of quests and leveling? Leveling is a given but now you 'have' to go through all those quests just so you can get the maximum amount of AP. Its really no different if Blizzard decided that in order to go from 80-90 you would only be able to gain exp from only quests. Considering the nature of this game, I would have designed it such that there would be a pool of AP not gained through normal leveling. Those AP could be unlocked through a variety of means (pvp, crafting, questing, harvesting) - essentially rewarding all gameplay styles and allow the player to choose how he/she earns those extra AP points.
Well, this is my question: If you can max 4 stats and 5 skills, how are you going to claim your character is gimped if you don't have as many AP's as player B, who is still limited to the 4 stats/5 skills, but just has some extra points stuck somewhere else? Honestly, if you can't kill characters with 880 AP, having 1000 ain't gonna help you.
People are so worried about the min/max that they don't even consider the actual mechanics of the game. It's like anything else. Always follow the KISS recipe. You get too many skills and you're not going to be able to use them in a fight, which means you'll generally be using the same ones. So then all those extra points you may have in other skills have just become pretty much useless.
Furthermore, with every new expansion there will be new AP to gain by level, most possibly AP to gain by new missions, and who knows what other ways to gain AP? There will come new über-skills with factions etc, suddenly the old 45 level capped überbuilds and skills will be nothing. Those who had always been running for that super-top-mega carrot on the stick will just keep running and running, while basically having no idea how fun it is just to be roaming around in this game, like showing off your dune buggy in a starter town :DD LOL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Worse thing about FE are the vehicles, shockingly poorly implemented in my opinion.
Well said twhint. I used the char planner, started with a based 880 for level 45 and figured I'd get around 200 AP from missions (the bonus AP). 200 bonus AP is the estimated realistic amount a player will attain. The max bonus AP is 270, which requires faction flipping and just isn't feasible to do (you end up hated by all factions pretty much). I still end up with 5 stats maxed and 4 skills maxed with some leftover to spread in skills (though not enough to max one).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez