Sometimes i like to sandbox and other time I like to theme park.
Since FE has both it's cheaper for me and I can get my MMO kicks in one game.
I used to play both EvE( 3 accounts heh ) and AoC until 2 months ago.
So I get two for the price of one...and many other goodies that has been mentioned many times before so no point in repeating them.
I start to feel sorry for people that cant find one single good MMO they can have fun with, allthough it's not their fault, MMOs has been sucking donkey balls for a long time now but some people are just way too demanding and want the world for 15 bucks a month.
Some are just natural born complainers.
Sandbox Shmandbox, Themepark Shmempark
I found a MMO I can commit to and I knew it after first couple of hours of game play.
You can call it whatever you like it's not gonna change anything.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
When I began, I thought FE was going to be a hybrid. I have to agree though, it has no sandbox to it. In reality, if feels like a Korean grinder in many aspects. After about level 8 you begin to realize the clear progression path duplicated in each relevant sector. The only aspect that is more sandbox than traditional mmo is the lack of pre-defined classes. But after your first toon, you build a character from level 1 with a predefined path in mind and it becomes the same as a class defined system if not in function but in true practice.
EDIT: Note that I am currently subscribed and will continue to play FE, because I actually find it FUN. Sure it has negatives, but I still enjoy it...
Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.
End of discussion?
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it.
Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.
End of discussion?
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.
End of discussion?
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
Yeah, I played till level 19.
I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different.
Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market.
Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.
End of discussion?
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
Yeah, I played till level 19.
I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different.
Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market.
That's a crazy twist and interpretation of what I have been saying. No where did I write that sandbox is better then non-sandbox. How you got that is beyond me. Also your last sentence seems to come from left field as well. Did you already have these responses on MS Word, ready to copy and paste?
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.
Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.
Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.
Um, if I "lied," it wasn't on purpose. He said that it was a sandbox/theme park hybrid.
There is no crusade going on. I'm not a troll. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. You have not presented anything at all that justifies calling this game a hybrid. I have layed out things that justify that it's not.
The reason why arguing isn't "your bag" in this case is because you don't have a leg to stand on. My perception of you is that you are the one on the crusade. Because I see that you have no logical reason to believe the way you do. And you refuse to submit logical reasons as to why you think the way you do. And even when you do submit a reason, it doesn't support your argument. Instead of coming up with good reasons why this game should be considered a hybrid, you tell people they argue for the sake of arguing and say that they are crusading for something (what, I have no clue).
It's time to accept the truth and move on. It doesn't hurt. There is nothing wrong with it being a theme park MMO.
Instead of arguing about it, why not try to list the elements of FE and catagorize them as TP or SB? That way, we as a community can decide for ourselves.
As someone that isn't really familiar with sandbox type games (played EVE but very briefly a long time ago) I would find it very interesting and insightful if we could all agree to do this.
It doesn't have to be one way or another but it would help newbies like myself to better understand what FE might actually be according to those that play it.
I have no idea how to start it off but figured that it couldn't hurt to make the suggestion as this thread really couldn't get much more useless at this point. Hopefully someone will take the ball and run with it so that we might be able to actually have a constructive conversation on the issue.
Instead of arguing about it, why not try to list the elements of FE and catagorize them as TP or SB? That way, we as a community can decide for ourselves. As someone that isn't really familiar with sandbox type games (played EVE but very briefly a long time ago) I would find it very interesting and insightful if we could all agree to do this. It doesn't have to be one way or another but it would help newbies like myself to better understand what FE might actually be according to those that play it. I have no idea how to start it off but figured that it couldn't hurt to make the suggestion as this thread really couldn't get much more useless at this point. Hopefully someone will take the ball and run with it so that we might be able to actually have a constructive conversation on the issue.
Here are some reasons why it is not:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
Here are some possible reasons why it is:
1. Seemless, open world
I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.
There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit.
MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations.
EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements.
EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP.
EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life.
Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan.
These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources.
And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
You were not.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
i posed this question to begin with and even though i haven't played ... i'll bite. doesn't the promise of a player driven, crafting-based economy differentiate FE from nearly all other mmos? There is a myriad of options available that are limited by imagination on this one feature. the absence of classes also grants a players imagination free reign over what his character will be proficient at.
FE doesn't have a player driven economy. It's actually one of the worse game economies I've ever seen.
There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit. MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations. EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements. EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP. EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life. Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan. These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources. And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.
Eve's market is as close to a player driven economy you'll ever see. The only changes they make are to keep the market at a healthy level, they don't impose strict limitations on anything... instead they'll alter drop rates or production costs. They do this for the same reason the government pays farmers -not- to grow crops.
Anyway I don't really see why this is being discussed. Eve is skill based game with a player driven economy thats full of options that lets you pick one of a dozen careers. Fallen Earth is a level based theme-park, with a stagnant NPC based economy, that leads you from zone to zone by your nose-rings. The only choices you make are deciding where to assign skill points when you level up. They don't really compare.
I can't point out a single aspect of FE that I would consider a "sandbox" element... outside of perhaps the zones being incredibly large.
Comments
Sometimes i like to sandbox and other time I like to theme park.
Since FE has both it's cheaper for me and I can get my MMO kicks in one game.
I used to play both EvE( 3 accounts heh ) and AoC until 2 months ago.
So I get two for the price of one...and many other goodies that has been mentioned many times before so no point in repeating them.
I start to feel sorry for people that cant find one single good MMO they can have fun with, allthough it's not their fault, MMOs has been sucking donkey balls for a long time now but some people are just way too demanding and want the world for 15 bucks a month.
Some are just natural born complainers.
Sandbox Shmandbox, Themepark Shmempark
I found a MMO I can commit to and I knew it after first couple of hours of game play.
You can call it whatever you like it's not gonna change anything.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
When I began, I thought FE was going to be a hybrid. I have to agree though, it has no sandbox to it. In reality, if feels like a Korean grinder in many aspects. After about level 8 you begin to realize the clear progression path duplicated in each relevant sector. The only aspect that is more sandbox than traditional mmo is the lack of pre-defined classes. But after your first toon, you build a character from level 1 with a predefined path in mind and it becomes the same as a class defined system if not in function but in true practice.
EDIT: Note that I am currently subscribed and will continue to play FE, because I actually find it FUN. Sure it has negatives, but I still enjoy it...
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it.
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
Yeah, I played till level 19.
I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different.
Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market.
As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.
I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.
I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?
Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.
Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things.
There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox. Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.
Ehh... settle down?
Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it
How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.
But I'll bite anyways,...the game as a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.
Yeah, I played till level 19.
I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different.
Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market.
That's a crazy twist and interpretation of what I have been saying. No where did I write that sandbox is better then non-sandbox. How you got that is beyond me. Also your last sentence seems to come from left field as well. Did you already have these responses on MS Word, ready to copy and paste?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.
Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.
For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.
I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.
Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.
This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".
Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:
Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.
Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.
For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.
You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.
No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.
It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.
Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.
The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.
Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.
I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.
Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid". And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.
And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.
I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.
Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.
Um, if I "lied," it wasn't on purpose. He said that it was a sandbox/theme park hybrid.
There is no crusade going on. I'm not a troll. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. You have not presented anything at all that justifies calling this game a hybrid. I have layed out things that justify that it's not.
The reason why arguing isn't "your bag" in this case is because you don't have a leg to stand on. My perception of you is that you are the one on the crusade. Because I see that you have no logical reason to believe the way you do. And you refuse to submit logical reasons as to why you think the way you do. And even when you do submit a reason, it doesn't support your argument. Instead of coming up with good reasons why this game should be considered a hybrid, you tell people they argue for the sake of arguing and say that they are crusading for something (what, I have no clue).
It's time to accept the truth and move on. It doesn't hurt. There is nothing wrong with it being a theme park MMO.
Instead of arguing about it, why not try to list the elements of FE and catagorize them as TP or SB? That way, we as a community can decide for ourselves.
As someone that isn't really familiar with sandbox type games (played EVE but very briefly a long time ago) I would find it very interesting and insightful if we could all agree to do this.
It doesn't have to be one way or another but it would help newbies like myself to better understand what FE might actually be according to those that play it.
I have no idea how to start it off but figured that it couldn't hurt to make the suggestion as this thread really couldn't get much more useless at this point. Hopefully someone will take the ball and run with it so that we might be able to actually have a constructive conversation on the issue.
This sentence is false.
Here are some reasons why it is not:
1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy
Here are some possible reasons why it is:
1. Seemless, open world
I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.
There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit.
MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations.
EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements.
EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP.
EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life.
Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan.
These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources.
And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
You were not.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
FE doesn't have a player driven economy. It's actually one of the worse game economies I've ever seen.
Eve's market is as close to a player driven economy you'll ever see. The only changes they make are to keep the market at a healthy level, they don't impose strict limitations on anything... instead they'll alter drop rates or production costs. They do this for the same reason the government pays farmers -not- to grow crops.
Anyway I don't really see why this is being discussed. Eve is skill based game with a player driven economy thats full of options that lets you pick one of a dozen careers. Fallen Earth is a level based theme-park, with a stagnant NPC based economy, that leads you from zone to zone by your nose-rings. The only choices you make are deciding where to assign skill points when you level up. They don't really compare.
I can't point out a single aspect of FE that I would consider a "sandbox" element... outside of perhaps the zones being incredibly large.