Originally posted by Zorvan01 I realize that. However, EA doesn't allow things like that. EA shuts shit down without warning or with very little when they decide it's a bust. Earth and Beyond would be a prime example. As well as The Sims Online. So I was only offering an alternative theory as to what they could be trying to accomplish. Doesn't mean you aren't correct in your assumption.
Yes EA has a great record for shutting down MMOS, there was also Motorcity Online. Also the different UO sequels that allways got canceled in developement.
the only successfull mmos that EA has or had got developed by other companies that were bought by EA.
really, i thought warhammer had gone free to play permanently for level 1-10 only (1st tier) and that this is only available on teh US servers. EU gets nothing, but at least on this one we are able to take the offer up (another game you could not, DnD online).
Though after having a day playing the game has me wondering why it was gettign close to 2x teh monthly cost than its nearest rivals. Glad i did not purchase the game as i would have been very very dissapointed with it. I will still play the lvl 1-10 forever free trial though as i have read that the main servers are empty thesedays and the 2 thats are not have loads of 1-10 players on them and nothing more LOL
A lot of people are ignorant and believe the English speaking countries are the center of the universe, when a lot of their products are older ones from the Asian countries; hand-me-downs.
Care to list a few? I'm personally curious about what "hand me downs" we have received over the last five years other than Aion.
Enlighten me
I wouldn't say "a lot" but the MMO "Sword of the New World" was released in Korea first as "Granada Espada". Just sayin'
Mythic failed in the same way that most MMOs fail these days. They poorly prioritized their post-release workload and as-such wound up with their backs to the wall after a year of live play.
They were behind the 8-ball from day 1 having to put back in the 4 missing classes. They took far too long to get a grip on the performance issues of the engine. They never implemented a dynamic balancing system, and they never really balanced out the various archetypes - frankly I'm not sure they ever understood which archetypes were supposed to balance against each other.
Modern MMOs have about 6 months from launch to do a very few things. They need to squash major and often-seen bugs (i.e. bugs with career skills), they need to ensure smooth performance at all times on any hardware above or at recommended, and they need to iron out disparities between classes and archetypes.
After that time a modern MMO had better be working on expanding and improving content for level-capped players. If they don't they'll lose them to boredom while the dev team is screwing around on other systems.
Frankly, if a game launches and has a dire need to redo content in the newbie experience or the lower level areas within the first year - they should never have launched in the first place and will constantly be playing catch-up throughout the first several years of live service (if they make it that far). MMO companies need to embrace the idea that whatever they launch with outside of bugs and end-game is what should be in place for at least a year virtually untouched.
Well said and exactly spot on with what I've been saying in other posts regarding this game and it's failure.
I think most realize this except for the devs at Mythic, even though a lot of us subs were pleading for this since the very beginning! I think this is the very core of what Blizzard has gotten right with WoW and the primary reason it's been so successful. In Mythic's attempt to give it's player base a WAR version of WoW, this is the most important factor that has eluded them!
Amen to that! This game could have been hugely successful, but it's shoddy release ensures that, even if they do fix everything, very few will come back because of the bad experience. The problem with hype is that if you don't live up to expectations then you will lose all the people who are willing to spend $50 on hype and you will have diffictulty getting new subs because of all those pissed of players who like to post on these forums
Amen to that! This game could have been hugely successful, but it's shoddy release ensures that, even if they do fix everything, very few will come back because of the bad experience. The problem with hype is that if you don't live up to expectations then you will lose all the people who are willing to spend $50 on hype and you will have diffictulty getting new subs because of all those pissed of players who like to post on these forums
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad.
I am in the MMO business and have heard nothing. Unless this person can provide documentation or links of this supposed proof (which sounds shoddy), I would guess that they are someone who was already praying for the doom of Warhammer some time ago, and they are merely trying to make themselves feel better by proclaiming the death of Mythic. I don't even play Warhammer, though I've started the T1 lately, so I am not a Mythic fan boy. I can only say that none of this makes sense from an MMO business standpoint, especially without backup.
Matt Fiore , the brains behind the whole DAOC concept is now at Bethesda, wonder what he is working on. Mark Jacobs will continue to lead gamers on like the politician he is.
What i have found in most sandboxes are discarded toys and cat poop.
Amen to that! This game could have been hugely successful, but it's shoddy release ensures that, even if they do fix everything, very few will come back because of the bad experience. The problem with hype is that if you don't live up to expectations then you will lose all the people who are willing to spend $50 on hype and you will have diffictulty getting new subs because of all those pissed of players who like to post on these forums
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad.
I wonder if devs try and use this same type of logic to justify the circumstances surrounding the games they often release to bad reviews. Most are not comparing games to WOW i nit's current state but at the state it and other games like LOTRO and such have RELEASED. I think WAR does not really belong in the conversation as again people just can't seem to not look past the fact that most people find it both uninspiring and unfun. But when it comes to games like some of the others you mention Aion,AOC, and to a lesser extent DF these companies are realesing games in horrible states at launch and that is what these companies are having a hard time over coming not the state of games in the state they exist in the here and now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Eh I doubt it they would go free2play before shutting it down permanently.
EDIT:
"Jeff Hickman - Executive Producer's Letter. Jeff Hickman wants you to know Mythic isn't going anywhere, and the studio is still hard at work on Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. They have plans for us, so keep on WAAAGHing brave fighters!"
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter It was added after release - thus a content patch. Also, one of those classes was a new class - the Slayer. WoW has added ONE class since release (five years). Adding classes is not a small thing. Four cities were cut too. Would you say a patch which added them wouldn't qualify as a content patch?
Slayer wasn't suppose to be in, there should have been a similar class that was too boring instead.
Still, they are not even close to the content they cut out yet. The 4 citys they cut is the reason why the endgame is so weak now, one of the reason the game is bleeding subs.
So, no. It wasn't a major patch, they just added stuff that should have been in the game from release and not enough of it. WAR would have been a very different game today if they had patched in all the stuff before releasing it. But EA was starting to get problems with cash and MJ had been too optimistic about the release date, they even moved it back but not enough.
WAR was another case of early releasing destroyed a game that could have been great. Not the first and it wont be the last either. The other problem with WAR is that I think that few if any on Mythic actually played the tabletop or the RPG game. You just don't get the feeling from the great RPG game in it. That made them lose the Warhammer fans fast, and there are millions of them.
Same can be said about LOTRO and it is a, moderate, success. No, WARs problem was not so much that it was not enough like Warhammer but rather that it was too much like WoW but without all the massive content that WoW had.
Mythic completely botched the RvR by only having two sides and not focusing anything on the guild aspect of the game, as well as a broken and meaningless endgame.
The intro did a great job of setting the game up for a massive war but once you got the to the endgame you realised that nothing was at stake really. You could ignore that your capital was being invaded and it would not much impact on you. How about that for a war. Imagine Washington being under siege and the president kidnapped/killed and the rest of the citizens go around with their own bussiness and not getting impacted by it. Bleh
Amen to that! This game could have been hugely successful, but it's shoddy release ensures that, even if they do fix everything, very few will come back because of the bad experience. The problem with hype is that if you don't live up to expectations then you will lose all the people who are willing to spend $50 on hype and you will have diffictulty getting new subs because of all those pissed of players who like to post on these forums
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad
Huh? The only thing I can agree is the polish, which Blizzard has really near-perfected. I dunno about balance, WoW does not have balance and at one point, it was horrific with DKTards and Retardins. WoW, in my opinion and many others, is actually worse now than it was 4-5 years ago, regardless of the "development" aka "dumbing down".
I don't know what type of players you are talkin about, but there are many players who have played WoW in past and simply moved on. A lot of the hate and dislike is due to the direction that Blizzard has taken with the game. The players may have certain standards due to WoW but they also want something different. AoC, War, Aion, etc. etc. all offered something different. Whether players choose to stay with those games is dependent on other factors. Don't forget, there are ex-WoW players as well, which shows that WoW is not exactly a standard for them.
Mythic only has itself to blame. Warhammer had great potential and brought a lot of great concepts to the genre (look how Blizzard copied almost every good WAR concept already). But certain key issues needed to be addressed and they were not. That seems to be common with most MMO developers, they just do not get it. It's not about the standard set by WoW, not at all. Look at WoW's playerbase, it is like the MMO rejects who would not last in other MMOs. Warhammer had no problem getting almost 1 million users at launch. They should have retained 300k-500k. There is interest and high demand for something different than WoW, AoC, WAR and Aion launches show that. It's up to the developers to capitalize on that. In restrospect, it really should not be that difficult to do so but then, you gotta realize on who is running the show. As an example, my first MMO was Anarchy Online, a game that I still find much better, deeper and more intriguing than WoW or any of the current MMOs except EvE Online & Ryzom. Great concept, good balance, innovative class design, great crafting system, amazing depth, yet a failed game due to how Funcom runs things. Same went for AoC, even though it was more shallow than AO, it has a great core. But Funcom just does not learn and does not get it.
The playerbase, player #s and the success is there for the taking. It's up to game developers to take advantage.
Comments
Yes EA has a great record for shutting down MMOS, there was also Motorcity Online. Also the different UO sequels that allways got canceled in developement.
the only successfull mmos that EA has or had got developed by other companies that were bought by EA.
really, i thought warhammer had gone free to play permanently for level 1-10 only (1st tier) and that this is only available on teh US servers. EU gets nothing, but at least on this one we are able to take the offer up (another game you could not, DnD online).
Though after having a day playing the game has me wondering why it was gettign close to 2x teh monthly cost than its nearest rivals. Glad i did not purchase the game as i would have been very very dissapointed with it. I will still play the lvl 1-10 forever free trial though as i have read that the main servers are empty thesedays and the 2 thats are not have loads of 1-10 players on them and nothing more LOL
Care to list a few? I'm personally curious about what "hand me downs" we have received over the last five years other than Aion.
Enlighten me
I wouldn't say "a lot" but the MMO "Sword of the New World" was released in Korea first as "Granada Espada". Just sayin'
Mythic failed in the same way that most MMOs fail these days. They poorly prioritized their post-release workload and as-such wound up with their backs to the wall after a year of live play.
They were behind the 8-ball from day 1 having to put back in the 4 missing classes. They took far too long to get a grip on the performance issues of the engine. They never implemented a dynamic balancing system, and they never really balanced out the various archetypes - frankly I'm not sure they ever understood which archetypes were supposed to balance against each other.
Modern MMOs have about 6 months from launch to do a very few things. They need to squash major and often-seen bugs (i.e. bugs with career skills), they need to ensure smooth performance at all times on any hardware above or at recommended, and they need to iron out disparities between classes and archetypes.
After that time a modern MMO had better be working on expanding and improving content for level-capped players. If they don't they'll lose them to boredom while the dev team is screwing around on other systems.
Frankly, if a game launches and has a dire need to redo content in the newbie experience or the lower level areas within the first year - they should never have launched in the first place and will constantly be playing catch-up throughout the first several years of live service (if they make it that far). MMO companies need to embrace the idea that whatever they launch with outside of bugs and end-game is what should be in place for at least a year virtually untouched.
Well said and exactly spot on with what I've been saying in other posts regarding this game and it's failure.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3215598#3215598
I think most realize this except for the devs at Mythic, even though a lot of us subs were pleading for this since the very beginning! I think this is the very core of what Blizzard has gotten right with WoW and the primary reason it's been so successful. In Mythic's attempt to give it's player base a WAR version of WoW, this is the most important factor that has eluded them!
Your fail comment, failed.
Amen to that! This game could have been hugely successful, but it's shoddy release ensures that, even if they do fix everything, very few will come back because of the bad experience. The problem with hype is that if you don't live up to expectations then you will lose all the people who are willing to spend $50 on hype and you will have diffictulty getting new subs because of all those pissed of players who like to post on these forums
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad.
I am in the MMO business and have heard nothing. Unless this person can provide documentation or links of this supposed proof (which sounds shoddy), I would guess that they are someone who was already praying for the doom of Warhammer some time ago, and they are merely trying to make themselves feel better by proclaiming the death of Mythic. I don't even play Warhammer, though I've started the T1 lately, so I am not a Mythic fan boy. I can only say that none of this makes sense from an MMO business standpoint, especially without backup.
Matt Fiore , the brains behind the whole DAOC concept is now at Bethesda, wonder what he is working on. Mark Jacobs will continue to lead gamers on like the politician he is.
What i have found in most sandboxes are discarded toys and cat poop.
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad.
I wonder if devs try and use this same type of logic to justify the circumstances surrounding the games they often release to bad reviews. Most are not comparing games to WOW i nit's current state but at the state it and other games like LOTRO and such have RELEASED. I think WAR does not really belong in the conversation as again people just can't seem to not look past the fact that most people find it both uninspiring and unfun. But when it comes to games like some of the others you mention Aion,AOC, and to a lesser extent DF these companies are realesing games in horrible states at launch and that is what these companies are having a hard time over coming not the state of games in the state they exist in the here and now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Not that I have any proof or knowledge, but it is not unheard of in the MMO world for a game to seem afloat and then shutdown....AC2...
Whether this is true or not, I do not know although I would not be surprised if it turns out to be true.
What I can see happening is EA trying to keep it afloat until it's golden egg SWTOR is hatched.
If WAR stays up until then, I can see it getting the hatchet shortly there after.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Eh I doubt it they would go free2play before shutting it down permanently.
EDIT:
"Jeff Hickman - Executive Producer's Letter. Jeff Hickman wants you to know Mythic isn't going anywhere, and the studio is still hard at work on Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. They have plans for us, so keep on WAAAGHing brave fighters!"
Source: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316507
All of the people that were laid off should have been gone long ago. Warhammer was such a bust they should all be gone.
Slayer wasn't suppose to be in, there should have been a similar class that was too boring instead.
Still, they are not even close to the content they cut out yet. The 4 citys they cut is the reason why the endgame is so weak now, one of the reason the game is bleeding subs.
So, no. It wasn't a major patch, they just added stuff that should have been in the game from release and not enough of it. WAR would have been a very different game today if they had patched in all the stuff before releasing it. But EA was starting to get problems with cash and MJ had been too optimistic about the release date, they even moved it back but not enough.
WAR was another case of early releasing destroyed a game that could have been great. Not the first and it wont be the last either. The other problem with WAR is that I think that few if any on Mythic actually played the tabletop or the RPG game. You just don't get the feeling from the great RPG game in it. That made them lose the Warhammer fans fast, and there are millions of them.
Same can be said about LOTRO and it is a, moderate, success. No, WARs problem was not so much that it was not enough like Warhammer but rather that it was too much like WoW but without all the massive content that WoW had.
Mythic completely botched the RvR by only having two sides and not focusing anything on the guild aspect of the game, as well as a broken and meaningless endgame.
The intro did a great job of setting the game up for a massive war but once you got the to the endgame you realised that nothing was at stake really. You could ignore that your capital was being invaded and it would not much impact on you. How about that for a war. Imagine Washington being under siege and the president kidnapped/killed and the rest of the citizens go around with their own bussiness and not getting impacted by it. Bleh
WAR = vanilla WoW with watered down PvP.
My gaming blog
Thing is that, while partially true, nearly all the big fantasy mmo's are facing that "Hype" mainly due to the pressure from WoW haters (Of which im arguably a member) to have something dethrone that game. Happened with WAR, AOC, Aion, and the next target is The Old Republic. No game, at launch, will have the degree of polish that WoW has. No game will have the balance that WoW has, its had a decade of development and refinement go into it, and will continue to be refined making it harder and harder to take down, largely because of the ridiculously high expectations everyone has of the games, and the lack of support it seems many of the "wowkillers" get after launch. Its kinda sad
Huh? The only thing I can agree is the polish, which Blizzard has really near-perfected. I dunno about balance, WoW does not have balance and at one point, it was horrific with DKTards and Retardins. WoW, in my opinion and many others, is actually worse now than it was 4-5 years ago, regardless of the "development" aka "dumbing down".
I don't know what type of players you are talkin about, but there are many players who have played WoW in past and simply moved on. A lot of the hate and dislike is due to the direction that Blizzard has taken with the game. The players may have certain standards due to WoW but they also want something different. AoC, War, Aion, etc. etc. all offered something different. Whether players choose to stay with those games is dependent on other factors. Don't forget, there are ex-WoW players as well, which shows that WoW is not exactly a standard for them.
Mythic only has itself to blame. Warhammer had great potential and brought a lot of great concepts to the genre (look how Blizzard copied almost every good WAR concept already). But certain key issues needed to be addressed and they were not. That seems to be common with most MMO developers, they just do not get it. It's not about the standard set by WoW, not at all. Look at WoW's playerbase, it is like the MMO rejects who would not last in other MMOs. Warhammer had no problem getting almost 1 million users at launch. They should have retained 300k-500k. There is interest and high demand for something different than WoW, AoC, WAR and Aion launches show that. It's up to the developers to capitalize on that. In restrospect, it really should not be that difficult to do so but then, you gotta realize on who is running the show. As an example, my first MMO was Anarchy Online, a game that I still find much better, deeper and more intriguing than WoW or any of the current MMOs except EvE Online & Ryzom. Great concept, good balance, innovative class design, great crafting system, amazing depth, yet a failed game due to how Funcom runs things. Same went for AoC, even though it was more shallow than AO, it has a great core. But Funcom just does not learn and does not get it.
The playerbase, player #s and the success is there for the taking. It's up to game developers to take advantage.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online