/agree, though I understand why they hype those numbers.
AoC and WAR were simply lacking at launch. I don't think a well implemented beta would have changed that, much. AoC lacked content, and WAR lacked player connection to their toons. Both of those things are a big part of the crack that keeps people addicted to MMO's.
Did you see that AoC is doing the same thing? 3 month sub for AoC gets you into TSW beta?
I think there was a point in CO's development where they looked at the horizon, saw DCO coming and saw the writing on the wall... "let's just get this game in working condition and move on to STO.". The only chance CO has to survive is to maintain it on a shoestring budget. I think that's what the lifer sub was about. Paying off on that big front end investment, and idling it along.
And you think STO will be in better condition then CO? They pushing that darn game out of the door with even less development time! (read my previous post in this thread).
Cryptic has changed. They seem to be trying to push out MMO titles with hardly more development time then a very good single player title. So they can heavily cash in before launch already.
They don't seem to be bothering about longetivity at all anymore.
It clearly shows with CO and it will even more show with STO. You can count on that.
Boasting those box sales numbers are a joke when it comes to MMOs, and I would argue they are setting themselves up to shoot themselves in the foot like the other games did. When happens when people find out that a game sold a million boxes but there isn't a lot of people playing hypothetically? People will figure out retention rates and realize that the game did not live up to the hype. The only reason I can see for boasting sales numbers is to present an image of being a successful game hoping to attract more people. They are playing the same dangerous game that Mythic and Funcom played.
When you take a look at Cryptic, then you see a shift in tactics with MMO development.
CO had less then 3 years development and STO is going to be pushed out of the door with hardly 2 years of development.
It's retarded and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the big "SCAMMY" scheme behind this.
They try to push a MMO out of the door with as little development time as possible (and thus as cheap as possible), deploy shady marketing practices with 6-month and lifetime subscriptions and try to sell as many boxes as possible.
So with that they already try to cash in the big bucks way up front, before the game is even released. And after it's released they don't seem to give a flying crock about longetivity. As they know with so little development time the game has no longetivity.
They just cut the live staff to minimum. Fix what is needed and deploy the minimum needed content updates. And so squeeze out as much subscription money from the poor fans that are left after the first month for as long as possible.
Close down when it's dried up. And move on to the next.
This is what they did and doing with Champions Online. And Star Trek Online will be next.
Cheers
I agree 100%. Cryptic has become a sham company. They screwed up CO and didn't listen to anyone and are probably doing the same with STO. It's being released too early. I want it to succeed, but I really have my doubts. If they screw up STO I won't play another game by them even if they do get Forgotten Realms license.
the fact that developers have, over time, eroded way at the usefulness of the beta process in MMOs. I've written before that by promoting both closed and open betas as though they are showcases or free trials for the game will result in participants not so much being interested in trying to help you fix the issues with your game, which is the purpose of beta, as giving the game an early try and complaining bitterly about its lack of polish and general crappyness to anyone they come across.
I totally agree with this.
When I heard that Cryptic was giving away STO Beta access with Lifetime/6 month subs I was like WTF?! All they are going to get from that is a bunch of players wanting a "Free Trial" , and treating it as such , and not people who are there to TEST the game and help improve it before release.
I too am sick of MMO game companies treating Betas as pre-release trials and then wondering why their games turn out so crappy. Its worse when they make you pay for them.
Go look at Cryptics STO Beta sign-up page. They are more interested in what other game platforms you use and what Fan Cons you go to than they are with ANY experience you might have as... oh I dont know.... a Beta Tester maybe?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
The presenting the sales of boxes sold and moved are just to get more people in the door, hell most MMO's from 2002 and present do that. Be that as it may, yes the subscription numbers are what really matters in the long run but if your not marketing the potental customers in to buying the game then your not growning your product.
Cryptic wrote themselves off long ago and hasn't really published a decent MMO in years.
Aion is a work in progress and depending on how NCWest handles it, it could go either way.
Hell Warhammer is giving away free endless trial accounts to get back the player base they lost, but still haven't gotten a clue as to make it more popular.
As for beta's, yes they should be more clear on what they want out of it instead of saying it's this or that.
Sigh, I've had enough of the CO-'preorders' whining about not getting into the CB right away. And now you stoke up the fire even more. I've always thought highly of the MMORPG columnists, but I am disappointed now. It was just something extra. It isn't Cryptic's fault that people didn't even play CO after preordering a 6 month subscription, just to get guaranteed access to the closed beta. And now they're whining that the game will already launch in 3 months, not giving them the expected half year or longer of (closed) beta, that other MMOs have had in the recent past. Strange how childish grown ups (considering the amount of money they paid for it) are.
Did you even read the article? Because that was one of his points - game companies selling beta access, as Cryptic did, inevitably leads to a large group of people whining about the game, usually because they do not understand the beta process and are dismayed by the unfinished look and feel of the game. In this case, of course, Cryptic had to go a step further and ensure the whining was elevated to a new high by not actually delivering on its promise.
And no, it was not "just something extra." As pointed out in the article, it was prominently featured in the ad as part of the package you were paying for. And yes, I am one of those fools who fell for it. :P
And you think STO will be in better condition then CO? They pushing that darn game out of the door with even less development time! (read my previous post in this thread).
Cryptic has changed. They seem to be trying to push out MMO titles with hardly more development time then a very good single player title. So they can heavily cash in before launch already.
They don't seem to be bothering about longetivity at all anymore.
It clearly shows with CO and it will even more show with STO. You can count on that.
Cheers
I have no idea. I'm not in the STO beta. But from what I've read regarding the direction they're going, I doubt it'll be anything I'm interested in.
I think they're seeing the "fickleness" of MMO gamers, and how unlikely it is that an MMO will survive these days, and that the success of WoW is a phenomenon and not the norm. They're trying to minimize risk by going cheaper and investing less on the front end.
Actually, I'd normally commend this. Dumping huge budgets onto MMO's in the past has generally been a mess(TR, WAR, AoC). If you have good ideas for enjoyable gameplay, you don't need a huge budget. Unfortunately, CO was a giant step backward in enjoyable gameplay. Will STO be? dunno.
Its a real world out there, where the fine print is king and its the buyer's responsibility to be aware. We are not talking about Mommy and Daddy making promises to you, but rather real life actions, with real life consequences.
If you are dumb enough to purchase something on an assumption, then you are going to get burned - be it not getting to be the first one into a Beta test, discovering that there are extra hidden charges on your car lease,or discovering that discounted mortgage payment comes with with a big balloon payment at the end.
While I think its a cheesy sales perk, I think even less of people that claim they were 'scammed' because they assumed something that was never there.
People need to take responsibility for their own foolish actions, rather than trying to place blame on some 'big bad game company'.
If this were a gym membership, car lease or refinance, people would be telling you its your fault for not reading the fine print - aka not knowing precisely what you are purchasing, but rather just assuming what you will get.
Sadly, since most games ship way too early in the development cycle, without promised features, and with numerous showstopping bugs - we're all paid beta testers. At least in this case, the customer was told they were buying access to beta software.
I remember a time when it was hard to even find info about a game starting beta. And to even get a chance to apply for the beta was almost impossible. Today you now have ads popping up on gaming sites with "Sign up for beta now!" tags on them.
Thing is most players view beta as a free trial, and most companies play along with this idea. And to use a beta for one game as a selling point for another is just a dirty tactic.
Look at the most recent AoC re-sub strat: Re-sub for 3 months of AoC and get a beta invite for The Secret World. Now I am waiting to see how TSW will turn out because I love the idea and actually like Ragnar's writing and work (One of the reasons I loved AO back in the day and still to this day like the book 'Prophet Without Honor'.). Will I re-sub for 3 months to AoC just for a chance to get into the TSW beta? Hell no. I couldnt stand AoC in beta (mostly due to Gaute and his KGB style team tactics of silencing the negative posts) but the gameplay wasnt all that great in my eyes even after release (was given a free copy of the game, so yes I did play it). Just like with Cryptic offering beta invites to STO when you purchase CO and a certain subscription package, it just shows they know that the customer is more interested in the unreleased game than they are in the game they are subbing for. In Funcoms case, it just shows they are trying to get some subs for the ailing AoC because they know a lot of people are watching and looking foward to TSW. Might as well grab as much revenue as possible I guess. And they know there are people out there who will pay the what, $45 for a chance to get into beta, which is just sad.
The people who do end up paying that 3 month sub fee will enter the beta and expect to be treated as a customer. They will expect a fully functional game, very minimal bugs and all the polish of a released product. Just look at all the people who get invited to betas when they are free, at the end of a beta they throw a hissy because they get nothing but a 'thank you'. They expect to have thier beta characters transfered to live servers or special ingame items at launch for being a tester (dont say they dont, because if you look at a lot of posts on this site alone, you will see when a game launches that testers do complain about nothing being carried over to live).
I have been around MMO betas since UO, and have pretty much tested them all (never really bothered with most of the asian games because they never appealed to me). I know as a seasoned beta tester that you are there to find the annoying shit that in house testers might have missed, small annoying bugs that might crop up after a patch or issues that pop up while doing group content etc. I know that my reward is possibly helping the dev team eliminate these issues and maybe having a more stable game at launch; a game that I might want to pay for and play without having to wait for 3-9 patches to make it at least somewhat playable. Do I want a shiny in game 'thank you' item? nope. Do I want a title that says 'Tester'? no thanks.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
All true. Once you present a beta spot as part of a package you're selling and advertise it as such, "the tester" suddenly becomes "the customer", and the whole thing crumbles. In essence, you can't make a person pay money for something and ask them to do work for you on top of it. Well, actually you can, but it'll hardly work as it should. I guess companies are well aware of this, too, they're not daft. So the whole beta testing process becomes diluted. Perhaps this is why they are diversifying their beta pool with invitations going out in every direction, at the expense of deprioritizing the people who practically paid for it. Because, let's face it, those people will have a certain sense of entitlement, and Entitlement is just a lousy starting point for a testing process. You want some Gratitude to go with that. It's the companies' own fault when they do this and have either a poorly tested product or an angry fanbase... or worse, both.
so i guess beta slots for my book would be a bad idea. Pre order tokasu now and get early acess to the not-ready-for-print manuscript and unfinished art! only 9.99!
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Well it beats hitting the F5 key a hundred times a day waiting for an invite. If Bioware gave an invite to SW:TOR with the purchase of Dragon Age: Origins then they would have sold twice the number or maybe $19.99 for a beta invite how many poeple here would buy a spot? I would. I'm also getting the 3 month AoC to get a spot in The Secret World beta. I was going to return to the game anyway why not get an added bonus. Its business 101 find something that poeple want and sell it. Make money.
OT a bit...
This reminds me of that movie Wing Commander. Lucasfilm boosted that crapburger of a movie by premiering a trailer for The Phantom Menace along with it. I unfortunately was misled to believing they'd replay it at the end of the movie, and sat their watching that horrible mess wishing I could dig my eyes out with spoons... all for nothing.
"He's a good guy, Angel!" ...-laughter from audience-
In this case, however, the jury is out on whether the STO beta or the life CO subscription is "Wing Commander". Could be a Wing Commander double play for all I know...
WAR also did a few things with selling beta slots. They sold beta codes in warhammer comics or art books. I believe it was something like one code per every 10 books. To me this was not a very good practice at the time and made them seem far more greedy, and that the only way to sell the books was if it had a chance for beta. I am also a bit more bitter because at the time I had been following war for over a year already and been aplied for beta since the day they opened beta testing up. Then my roommate goes out and buys a few books and gets a beta key after just hearing about the game a week earlier from me. Guess I'm just spiteful that I never got into beta after long term interest and someone can go out and buy it. Maybe I should have just given in tried my luck at wining a code through the book.
Its a real world out there, where the fine print is king and its the buyer's responsibility to be aware. We are not talking about Mommy and Daddy making promises to you, but rather real life actions, with real life consequences.
If you are dumb enough to purchase something on an assumption, then you are going to get burned - be it not getting to be the first one into a Beta test, discovering that there are extra hidden charges on your car lease,or discovering that discounted mortgage payment comes with with a big balloon payment at the end.
While I think its a cheesy sales perk, I think even less of people that claim they were 'scammed' because they assumed something that was never there.
People need to take responsibility for their own foolish actions, rather than trying to place blame on some 'big bad game company'.
If this were a gym membership, car lease or refinance, people would be telling you its your fault for not reading the fine print - aka not knowing precisely what you are purchasing, but rather just assuming what you will get.
I don't think that's the point the OP is trying to make.
These game companies are shooting themselves in the foot. Consumers will believe what they believe, whether it's a notion of getting scammed or that the game is a finished product, whatever. But the results of feeding these betas to people that take them for demos is bringing about misleading expectations in those consumers. I believe that's what his point is.
There is little benefit to the company to sign anybody and everybody up for open beta, save for stress tests. They get limited, possibly misleading feedback, and those folks see the game in an inferior state; save for all those that are still really betas at launch.
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Good write up Jon I agree on all accounts although I go have one alternate theory re NC Soft.
I belive the NC Soft count box sales, as its the only MMO maker that models its business around box sales. How does one do this? Well let me present a path of logic to you all made up of speculation and subjecture but based on one fact and one fact alone.
Bear with me, I have 4 accounts for Aion Mum, Dad and the Two kids. Recently one of our accounts got banned for apparent third party program use. My young son was very mad. Unfortunately I do not allow him to use in game chat for any reason and as young kids tend to do they love repetitive tasks. Can you see easily what asuumption might be made here? However getting back on point.
Here is that one Fact: Have any of you noticed the real bots I.E. "fgfgffg" how they go back and sit down at the precise point and rest every time they get their health down? Now from what I have read on automated programs for aion most rely on pathing, or some kind of image comparison but they cannot achieve going back to the precise, exact same in game location to the pixel. The only way to do that is to have access to game code on the server that allows a Admin or Dev style function to return to the exact same pixel.
Okay so we have potentially either NC running these bots or they employ a third party to run them and provide NC secondary revenue streams from gold farming and RMT. Now this is why a MMO would be measured by box sales. The reason being is if you are running such a scam it would make perfect business sense to only occasionally ban the real bots and go after actual innocent players and use any excuse with no comeback - because what will most players do? GO BUY ANOTHER BOX!! or pack their bags and go else where.
Secondary supporting fact: To be honest the amount of posts out there of banned people stating the cliche 'I have done nothing wrong but I got banned' seems to be ten fold from NC Soft products more so than any other company making MMO's
So just an alternate theory as to why NC Soft in particular may well be correct in using Box Sales to measure its success?
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
STO was used to sucker more people into buying CO subs. Cryptic knew they could make more money by suckering in Trekkie's who were dying for the STO game by hooking them into CO first. CO was an afterthought when Crytic got the license for STO. Champions was a way for Cryptic to show to Atari and Paramount they could handle the STO game. If your too blind to see that then stop drinking the Kool aid.
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
I will concede if you can provide anything concrete, and I mean *anything*, in any situation, from any game ever, to support that beyond a tin foil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist's deluded rantings. "They knew it was going to fail"...... Come on. Are you kidding me?
The point is not whether I (and others like me) were stupid to fall for Cryptic's sales pitch (we were). And I do not particularly even care at this point whether I am ever in closed beta - I actually typically prefer NOT to beta test a game. I only wanted to in this case because I want to much for this game to not suck (which, after years of MMO playing, is about all I can hope for). My complete and total disgust with Cryptic stems from the fact that they made such a bone-headed offer in the first place and THEN did not follow through on it. Generating guaranteed bad press among what should be your most devoted fan base is SOE-worthy. Good move! :P
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
I really can't imagine that they could come to any other conclusion. With CoX having nearly limitless potential content and DC Online on the horizon, they had to make a game where you just can't put down the controller to survive. CO certainly wasn't that game.
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
STO was used to sucker more people into buying CO subs. Cryptic knew they could make more money by suckering in Trekkie's who were dying for the STO game by hooking them into CO first. CO was an afterthought when Crytic got the license for STO. Champions was a way for Cryptic to show to Atari and Paramount they could handle the STO game. If your too blind to see that then stop drinking the Kool aid.
See my above post. Cryptic offering the STO beta with extended CO subscriptions was purely a marketing-centered money-making scheme and an exploitation of the hype garnered by the use of an obscenely popular license.
All you have to do is say the words Star Trek and a lot people will pay damn near any amount of money for whatever it is. That's what Cryptic did here, they took advantage of that knowledge. The thing is that they needed something concrete to tie it to, that being Champions Online. They would've tied it to anything given the chance. In this case, going with CO was just the logical, and only, option.
Comments
And you think STO will be in better condition then CO? They pushing that darn game out of the door with even less development time! (read my previous post in this thread).
Cryptic has changed. They seem to be trying to push out MMO titles with hardly more development time then a very good single player title. So they can heavily cash in before launch already.
They don't seem to be bothering about longetivity at all anymore.
It clearly shows with CO and it will even more show with STO. You can count on that.
Cheers
When you take a look at Cryptic, then you see a shift in tactics with MMO development.
CO had less then 3 years development and STO is going to be pushed out of the door with hardly 2 years of development.
It's retarded and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the big "SCAMMY" scheme behind this.
They try to push a MMO out of the door with as little development time as possible (and thus as cheap as possible), deploy shady marketing practices with 6-month and lifetime subscriptions and try to sell as many boxes as possible.
So with that they already try to cash in the big bucks way up front, before the game is even released. And after it's released they don't seem to give a flying crock about longetivity. As they know with so little development time the game has no longetivity.
They just cut the live staff to minimum. Fix what is needed and deploy the minimum needed content updates. And so squeeze out as much subscription money from the poor fans that are left after the first month for as long as possible.
Close down when it's dried up. And move on to the next.
This is what they did and doing with Champions Online. And Star Trek Online will be next.
Cheers
I agree 100%. Cryptic has become a sham company. They screwed up CO and didn't listen to anyone and are probably doing the same with STO. It's being released too early. I want it to succeed, but I really have my doubts. If they screw up STO I won't play another game by them even if they do get Forgotten Realms license.
the fact that developers have, over time, eroded way at the usefulness of the beta process in MMOs. I've written before that by promoting both closed and open betas as though they are showcases or free trials for the game will result in participants not so much being interested in trying to help you fix the issues with your game, which is the purpose of beta, as giving the game an early try and complaining bitterly about its lack of polish and general crappyness to anyone they come across.
I totally agree with this.
When I heard that Cryptic was giving away STO Beta access with Lifetime/6 month subs I was like WTF?! All they are going to get from that is a bunch of players wanting a "Free Trial" , and treating it as such , and not people who are there to TEST the game and help improve it before release.
I too am sick of MMO game companies treating Betas as pre-release trials and then wondering why their games turn out so crappy. Its worse when they make you pay for them.
Go look at Cryptics STO Beta sign-up page. They are more interested in what other game platforms you use and what Fan Cons you go to than they are with ANY experience you might have as... oh I dont know.... a Beta Tester maybe?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
The presenting the sales of boxes sold and moved are just to get more people in the door, hell most MMO's from 2002 and present do that. Be that as it may, yes the subscription numbers are what really matters in the long run but if your not marketing the potental customers in to buying the game then your not growning your product.
Cryptic wrote themselves off long ago and hasn't really published a decent MMO in years.
Aion is a work in progress and depending on how NCWest handles it, it could go either way.
Hell Warhammer is giving away free endless trial accounts to get back the player base they lost, but still haven't gotten a clue as to make it more popular.
As for beta's, yes they should be more clear on what they want out of it instead of saying it's this or that.
Did you even read the article? Because that was one of his points - game companies selling beta access, as Cryptic did, inevitably leads to a large group of people whining about the game, usually because they do not understand the beta process and are dismayed by the unfinished look and feel of the game. In this case, of course, Cryptic had to go a step further and ensure the whining was elevated to a new high by not actually delivering on its promise.
And no, it was not "just something extra." As pointed out in the article, it was prominently featured in the ad as part of the package you were paying for. And yes, I am one of those fools who fell for it. :P
What's going on here?! I agree with you Jon!
And you think STO will be in better condition then CO? They pushing that darn game out of the door with even less development time! (read my previous post in this thread).
Cryptic has changed. They seem to be trying to push out MMO titles with hardly more development time then a very good single player title. So they can heavily cash in before launch already.
They don't seem to be bothering about longetivity at all anymore.
It clearly shows with CO and it will even more show with STO. You can count on that.
Cheers
I have no idea. I'm not in the STO beta. But from what I've read regarding the direction they're going, I doubt it'll be anything I'm interested in.
I think they're seeing the "fickleness" of MMO gamers, and how unlikely it is that an MMO will survive these days, and that the success of WoW is a phenomenon and not the norm. They're trying to minimize risk by going cheaper and investing less on the front end.
Actually, I'd normally commend this. Dumping huge budgets onto MMO's in the past has generally been a mess(TR, WAR, AoC). If you have good ideas for enjoyable gameplay, you don't need a huge budget. Unfortunately, CO was a giant step backward in enjoyable gameplay. Will STO be? dunno.
Its a real world out there, where the fine print is king and its the buyer's responsibility to be aware. We are not talking about Mommy and Daddy making promises to you, but rather real life actions, with real life consequences.
If you are dumb enough to purchase something on an assumption, then you are going to get burned - be it not getting to be the first one into a Beta test, discovering that there are extra hidden charges on your car lease,or discovering that discounted mortgage payment comes with with a big balloon payment at the end.
While I think its a cheesy sales perk, I think even less of people that claim they were 'scammed' because they assumed something that was never there.
People need to take responsibility for their own foolish actions, rather than trying to place blame on some 'big bad game company'.
If this were a gym membership, car lease or refinance, people would be telling you its your fault for not reading the fine print - aka not knowing precisely what you are purchasing, but rather just assuming what you will get.
Sadly, since most games ship way too early in the development cycle, without promised features, and with numerous showstopping bugs - we're all paid beta testers. At least in this case, the customer was told they were buying access to beta software.
I remember a time when it was hard to even find info about a game starting beta. And to even get a chance to apply for the beta was almost impossible. Today you now have ads popping up on gaming sites with "Sign up for beta now!" tags on them.
Thing is most players view beta as a free trial, and most companies play along with this idea. And to use a beta for one game as a selling point for another is just a dirty tactic.
Look at the most recent AoC re-sub strat: Re-sub for 3 months of AoC and get a beta invite for The Secret World. Now I am waiting to see how TSW will turn out because I love the idea and actually like Ragnar's writing and work (One of the reasons I loved AO back in the day and still to this day like the book 'Prophet Without Honor'.). Will I re-sub for 3 months to AoC just for a chance to get into the TSW beta? Hell no. I couldnt stand AoC in beta (mostly due to Gaute and his KGB style team tactics of silencing the negative posts) but the gameplay wasnt all that great in my eyes even after release (was given a free copy of the game, so yes I did play it). Just like with Cryptic offering beta invites to STO when you purchase CO and a certain subscription package, it just shows they know that the customer is more interested in the unreleased game than they are in the game they are subbing for. In Funcoms case, it just shows they are trying to get some subs for the ailing AoC because they know a lot of people are watching and looking foward to TSW. Might as well grab as much revenue as possible I guess. And they know there are people out there who will pay the what, $45 for a chance to get into beta, which is just sad.
The people who do end up paying that 3 month sub fee will enter the beta and expect to be treated as a customer. They will expect a fully functional game, very minimal bugs and all the polish of a released product. Just look at all the people who get invited to betas when they are free, at the end of a beta they throw a hissy because they get nothing but a 'thank you'. They expect to have thier beta characters transfered to live servers or special ingame items at launch for being a tester (dont say they dont, because if you look at a lot of posts on this site alone, you will see when a game launches that testers do complain about nothing being carried over to live).
I have been around MMO betas since UO, and have pretty much tested them all (never really bothered with most of the asian games because they never appealed to me). I know as a seasoned beta tester that you are there to find the annoying shit that in house testers might have missed, small annoying bugs that might crop up after a patch or issues that pop up while doing group content etc. I know that my reward is possibly helping the dev team eliminate these issues and maybe having a more stable game at launch; a game that I might want to pay for and play without having to wait for 3-9 patches to make it at least somewhat playable. Do I want a shiny in game 'thank you' item? nope. Do I want a title that says 'Tester'? no thanks.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
so i guess beta slots for my book would be a bad idea. Pre order tokasu now and get early acess to the not-ready-for-print manuscript and unfinished art! only 9.99!
The simple solution for me is to never spend money on something with the intention of relying on the company to follow through on nothing more than a promise. Advertised premiums or discounts are usually nothing more than a swindle. A good product can be sold soley on its merits of quality.
Champion's Online must not be succeeding like they would have wished for them to have to resort to swindling an entire different demographic (Star Trekkies) into propping up Cryptic's other game by purchasing lifetime subs(oh my) & 6-month subs for a game they have no interest in.
OT a bit...
This reminds me of that movie Wing Commander. Lucasfilm boosted that crapburger of a movie by premiering a trailer for The Phantom Menace along with it. I unfortunately was misled to believing they'd replay it at the end of the movie, and sat their watching that horrible mess wishing I could dig my eyes out with spoons... all for nothing.
"He's a good guy, Angel!" ...-laughter from audience-
In this case, however, the jury is out on whether the STO beta or the life CO subscription is "Wing Commander". Could be a Wing Commander double play for all I know...
WAR also did a few things with selling beta slots. They sold beta codes in warhammer comics or art books. I believe it was something like one code per every 10 books. To me this was not a very good practice at the time and made them seem far more greedy, and that the only way to sell the books was if it had a chance for beta. I am also a bit more bitter because at the time I had been following war for over a year already and been aplied for beta since the day they opened beta testing up. Then my roommate goes out and buys a few books and gets a beta key after just hearing about the game a week earlier from me. Guess I'm just spiteful that I never got into beta after long term interest and someone can go out and buy it. Maybe I should have just given in tried my luck at wining a code through the book.
I don't think that's the point the OP is trying to make.
These game companies are shooting themselves in the foot. Consumers will believe what they believe, whether it's a notion of getting scammed or that the game is a finished product, whatever. But the results of feeding these betas to people that take them for demos is bringing about misleading expectations in those consumers. I believe that's what his point is.
There is little benefit to the company to sign anybody and everybody up for open beta, save for stress tests. They get limited, possibly misleading feedback, and those folks see the game in an inferior state; save for all those that are still really betas at launch.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
Can't disagree with the OP on either point. Selling beta access is not a great idea, even if it makes good business sense.
Not publishing sub numbers is almost something governments should force by passing laws requiring them to.
Almost.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Summary: The Marketing/Advertising "spin" that people are allowed to get away with is stupid.
Response: Agreed.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Good write up Jon I agree on all accounts although I go have one alternate theory re NC Soft.
I belive the NC Soft count box sales, as its the only MMO maker that models its business around box sales. How does one do this? Well let me present a path of logic to you all made up of speculation and subjecture but based on one fact and one fact alone.
Bear with me, I have 4 accounts for Aion Mum, Dad and the Two kids. Recently one of our accounts got banned for apparent third party program use. My young son was very mad. Unfortunately I do not allow him to use in game chat for any reason and as young kids tend to do they love repetitive tasks. Can you see easily what asuumption might be made here? However getting back on point.
Here is that one Fact: Have any of you noticed the real bots I.E. "fgfgffg" how they go back and sit down at the precise point and rest every time they get their health down? Now from what I have read on automated programs for aion most rely on pathing, or some kind of image comparison but they cannot achieve going back to the precise, exact same in game location to the pixel. The only way to do that is to have access to game code on the server that allows a Admin or Dev style function to return to the exact same pixel.
Okay so we have potentially either NC running these bots or they employ a third party to run them and provide NC secondary revenue streams from gold farming and RMT. Now this is why a MMO would be measured by box sales. The reason being is if you are running such a scam it would make perfect business sense to only occasionally ban the real bots and go after actual innocent players and use any excuse with no comeback - because what will most players do? GO BUY ANOTHER BOX!! or pack their bags and go else where.
Secondary supporting fact: To be honest the amount of posts out there of banned people stating the cliche 'I have done nothing wrong but I got banned' seems to be ten fold from NC Soft products more so than any other company making MMO's
So just an alternate theory as to why NC Soft in particular may well be correct in using Box Sales to measure its success?
You Tell Me.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
STO was used to sucker more people into buying CO subs. Cryptic knew they could make more money by suckering in Trekkie's who were dying for the STO game by hooking them into CO first. CO was an afterthought when Crytic got the license for STO. Champions was a way for Cryptic to show to Atari and Paramount they could handle the STO game. If your too blind to see that then stop drinking the Kool aid.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
I will concede if you can provide anything concrete, and I mean *anything*, in any situation, from any game ever, to support that beyond a tin foil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist's deluded rantings. "They knew it was going to fail"...... Come on. Are you kidding me?
The point is not whether I (and others like me) were stupid to fall for Cryptic's sales pitch (we were). And I do not particularly even care at this point whether I am ever in closed beta - I actually typically prefer NOT to beta test a game. I only wanted to in this case because I want to much for this game to not suck (which, after years of MMO playing, is about all I can hope for). My complete and total disgust with Cryptic stems from the fact that they made such a bone-headed offer in the first place and THEN did not follow through on it. Generating guaranteed bad press among what should be your most devoted fan base is SOE-worthy. Good move! :P
Or maybe they knew CO wouldn't keep enough subscribers past the first month so they con people into purchasing 6-month, lifetime subscriptions? Makes sense to me.
I really can't imagine that they could come to any other conclusion. With CoX having nearly limitless potential content and DC Online on the horizon, they had to make a game where you just can't put down the controller to survive. CO certainly wasn't that game.
Not a valid theory here, as the offer was available before Champions even went live. So there's no chance the STO beta was offered in an attempt to "prop up" CO's "perceived failure."
STO was used to sucker more people into buying CO subs. Cryptic knew they could make more money by suckering in Trekkie's who were dying for the STO game by hooking them into CO first. CO was an afterthought when Crytic got the license for STO. Champions was a way for Cryptic to show to Atari and Paramount they could handle the STO game. If your too blind to see that then stop drinking the Kool aid.
See my above post. Cryptic offering the STO beta with extended CO subscriptions was purely a marketing-centered money-making scheme and an exploitation of the hype garnered by the use of an obscenely popular license.
All you have to do is say the words Star Trek and a lot people will pay damn near any amount of money for whatever it is. That's what Cryptic did here, they took advantage of that knowledge. The thing is that they needed something concrete to tie it to, that being Champions Online. They would've tied it to anything given the chance. In this case, going with CO was just the logical, and only, option.