After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
Anyhow, its one of those situations I clearly remember as our corp spoke of it on Vent the following day. We all thought the numbers were fairly impressive. However, we later realized that there was another important factor to consider.
The Multi Account theory :
If the period of time prior to the record being broken, CCP was offering a special deal on opening a second account. Anybody who did so during that period were allowed both accounts at $19.00 a month for six months.A ton of people took advantage of the deal, including myself.
Not long after they broke the login record.
Edit: I should add that I love the game and have yet to play any other MMO that I enjoyed nearly as much. I'm just mentioning this to clear up any notion that I might be flaming the game.
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
What is your source of the percentage of multi-account players in other MMOs? I mean, you keep needling at this but you haven't presented anything that indicated EVE's precentage is more or less than in other MMOs. It seems that your stance is the assumption that since CCP runs ads for second accounts, then they must have much more than any other MMO. Your further stance is that since Kieron said "less than 20%" two years ago then that means "at least 20%" of the players enjoy the game enough to buy additional accounts... and you further that's not a healthy number for some reason.
It seems that you want so much to believe something that you don't realize how much you are assuming and even changing quite a bit to make it so.
Numbers for other MMOs are no argument, it's completely irrelevant. I never included other MMO into my assumptions.
Actually, it's very relevant. If you're saying that having multiple accounts is unhealthy and that the MMO has significantly less players, then it is true of all MMOs, correct? After all, they all have the same percentage of multiple accounts. Or do thay? Maybe they have more. I tell you what, I'll accept as fact the assumption that other MMOs have more multiple account owners, therefore EVE has more realistic numbers than any other MMO.
Based on your many posts on this topic, it's entirely possible you're thinking "False. They have a lower percentage." Do they? Mu point is, you have nothing to gauge it against other than personal assumption. You are accepting your assumption as fact and, as a result, stating that EVE has significantly more multiple account users than other MMOs. I say 'significantly' because if the difference between the percentage in EVE and other MMOs is trivial, then this would be an MMO issue and not some EVE-specific tinfoilhattery, no?
Worse, you have either convinced yourself that "less than 20% is no different from "at least 20%" or you somehow think you can convice everyone else of that. GD, if you were promised at least 20% of something but received less than 20% you'd probably see a bot of a difference between the two.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
Originally posted by LynxJSA Actually, it's very relevant. If you're saying that having multiple accounts is unhealthy and that the MMO has significantly less players, then it is true of all MMOs, correct? After all, they all have the same percentage of multiple accounts. Or do thay? Maybe they have more. I tell you what, I'll accept as fact the assumption that other MMOs have more multiple account owners, therefore EVE has more realistic numbers than any other MMO. Based on your many posts on this topic, it's entirely possible you're thinking "False. They have a lower percentage." Do they? Mu point is, you have nothing to gauge it against other than personal assumption. You are accepting your assumption as fact and, as a result, stating that EVE has significantly more multiple account users than other MMOs. I say 'significantly' because if the difference between the percentage in EVE and other MMOs is trivial, then this would be an MMO issue and not some EVE-specific tinfoilhattery, no?Worse, you have either convinced yourself that "less than 20% is no different from "at least 20%" or you somehow think you can convice everyone else of that. GD, if you were promised at least 20% of something but received less than 20% you'd probably see a bot of a difference between the two.
If you say that my assumptions are invalid, it would be nice if you could actualy point out how my assumption is flawed. Please point me out where I did the mistake in my multi-account share through subsription base.
All you do is disagree with me and repeat the same stuff ignoring any arguments I brought in nor using any of yours. You can disagree with me but that does not make my assumptions less valid.
I am not biased or twisting facts. You disagree with using 20% multi-account users as top line but I also used 2 accounts per individual numbers as bottom line to 'even it out' and get some 'average'. I could do some more adjusting numbers on both ends but it would get me about same numbers.
It is a valid and objective way how to set up an assumption, if you disagree - fine but if you claim my assumption invalid, you have to proof or point out otherwise.
I will repeat that agin since you nor Malcanis can't read what I write - Using the numbers provided by CCP and making assumption which none of you pointed a flaw in, I personaly consider what they represent a bad for game like EVE is.
Comparing EVE to other MMOs is absurd.
- other MMOs don't have single persistant world - other MMOs don't have death penalty - other MMOs don't have such robust economy - other MMOs don't have truly interactive, multiplayer content - other MMOs don't have etc. etc.
The difference between EVE and other MMOs is so significant that the impact of multi-accounting is different as much as the difference between EVE and those you are comaring to.
I generaly like your posts because they are constructive, logical and rise some witt points and remarks but that is what your posts completely lack now
Actually, it's very relevant. If you're saying that having multiple accounts is unhealthy and that the MMO has significantly less players, then it is true of all MMOs, correct? After all, they all have the same percentage of multiple accounts. Or do thay? Maybe they have more. I tell you what, I'll accept as fact the assumption that other MMOs have more multiple account owners, therefore EVE has more realistic numbers than any other MMO.
Based on your many posts on this topic, it's entirely possible you're thinking "False. They have a lower percentage." Do they? Mu point is, you have nothing to gauge it against other than personal assumption. You are accepting your assumption as fact and, as a result, stating that EVE has significantly more multiple account users than other MMOs. I say 'significantly' because if the difference between the percentage in EVE and other MMOs is trivial, then this would be an MMO issue and not some EVE-specific tinfoilhattery, no? Worse, you have either convinced yourself that "less than 20% is no different from "at least 20%" or you somehow think you can convice everyone else of that. GD, if you were promised at least 20% of something but received less than 20% you'd probably see a bot of a difference between the two.
If you say that my assumptions are invalid, it would be nice if you could actualy point out how my assumption is flawed. Please point me out where I did the mistake in my multi-account share through subsription base.
All you do is disagree with me and repeat the same stuff ignoring any arguments I brought in nor using any of yours. You can disagree with me but that does not make my assumptions less valid.
I am not biased or twisting facts. You disagree with using 20% multi-account users as top line but I also used 2 accounts per individual numbers as bottom line to 'even it out' and get some 'average'. I could do some more adjusting numbers on both ends but it would get me about same numbers.
It is a valid and objective way how to set up an assumption, if you disagree - fine but if you claim my assumption invalid, you have to proof or point out otherwise.
I will repeat that agin since you nor Malcanis can't read what I write - Using the numbers provided by CCP and making assumption which none of you pointed a flaw in, I personaly consider what they represent a bad for game like EVE is.
Comparing EVE to other MMOs is absurd.
- other MMOs don't have single persistant world
- other MMOs don't have death penalty
- other MMOs don't have such robust economy
- other MMOs don't have truly interactive, multiplayer content
- other MMOs don't have etc. etc.
The difference between EVE and other MMOs is so significant that the impact of multi-accounting is different as much as the difference between EVE and those you are comaring to.
I generaly like your posts because they are constructive, logical and rise some witt points and remarks but that is what your posts completely lack now
On that same token its fair to point out that in some ways its simply easier to manage multiple accounts in eve.
Since you don't have to go out and fight and gain experience to advance your character, it makes it much easier to a let a second account sit and train. You don't have to worry about trying to control multiple characters farming for experience as you would in other games.
Granted, implants and equipment is another thing. But if you already have a character sitting on a horde of ISK then its just a matter of equiping your second account once its trained.
I just want to clear a few things up around here about the myth that keeps on showing up in these forums. The fact is there is no where near 300k players. These are accounts, and personally many of these accounts are owned by people who multibox. I myself have 3 accounts, my close friends that I play with all have atleast 1 extra account for either covert ops "eyes", manufacturing, or logistics. This guy alone can describe 90% of eve players, not that everyone has this many accounts but in general this is how things are around EVE. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215928
I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.
Does this affect the game itself and make it less fun? Some say yes, but I don't feel it does. If I had to guess i'd say there is maybe 75k players at best. Which is still good. By no means is the game empty and in my opinion it has just the right number of players. Just thought I would clear it up. Cheers
I think you are completely wrong.
As EvE use only one server and that server give information about online player any moment of the day its very easy to calculate proximate number of active players in it. Here it is:
As I know average time played per week in MMOs is 14 hours which is 2 hours a day.
When I have played EVE there was between 15-40k players which make something like lets say 25k average players online.
As already mentioned average player play 2 hours a day which is 2/24 part of the day that is equal to 1/12 of the day.
Because average players online any moment of the day are 25k that mean there are 12x25k=300k player average players logged in a day.
About multi accounts: There are many peoples with more than one account in any MMO not only EvE.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Originally posted by Kemahudson On that same token its fair to point out that in some ways its simply easier to manage multiple accounts in eve.
Since you don't have to go out and fight and gain experience to advance your character, it makes it much easier to a let a second account sit and train. You don't have to worry about trying to control multiple characters farming for experience as you would in other games.
Granted, implants and equipment is another thing. But if you already have a character sitting on a horde of ISK then its just a matter of equiping your second account once its trained.
Yeah, real-time skill training was on the list when I realized the list would be too long and replaced it with etc. etc.
I disagree thats 120k more accounts that get paid for so the devs can improve a game I enjoy.
I don't play with or against all 300k accounts so why would I care if 10-20% of the players want a alt account?
More money the better.
I suggest you all grab a alt account so we can push Eves Subs over the 500k mark
Multi-accounting is bad. EVE is not designed for you to control more characters.
I understand it is paying the maintenance and development but it is making the game 'ill'.
Originally posted by cosy
2x3=12 ?
300k subscribers is a potentional of 300k individual players - EVE community. 20% of that is 60k subs. Taking multiply accounts into consideration = 120k subscribers is a bare minimum of how many subscriptions are taken by multiply accounts.
EDIT:
CCP kieron posted this on 2007.01.19 21:04:00. While there is no newer update on those numbers, I work with what I have got. And honestly, there is no reason to think that this number changed much. In fact, it could decrease as much as it could increase.
Trying to figure out why you think EVE isn't made to control multiple characters. When I run missions in Empire, I routinely run 3 ships all on a single box with no problem. When I run wormhole OPs I run two ships, one to salvage and another to do DPS, again on a single box.
Same with PVP, while fighting Empire wardecs I'd have a neutral scout out to observe and scout enemy movements in order to more effectively prosecute the war or to just watch neighboring systems while my other characters safely ran missions next door.
I think EVE is an excellent game to run multiple accounts and don't see why you think it makes the game "ill".
Heck, I pay full sub fees for all 3, and don't use PLEX's to keep them going. (I have other uses for my ISK)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just want to clear a few things up around here about the myth that keeps on showing up in these forums. The fact is there is no where near 300k players. These are accounts. . .
For the most part, most know that, and it isn't much different for other games that are very popular like eve is. But for me, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
If you look at it from a pure ideologic point, then yes, you are correct, buying ISK from a person behind CCP's back or thru CCP are the same.
But this was a pragmatic solution, and a good one imho. The positive things about plexes :
- It does not magically create more ISK ( like item malls would ), so it only has a minor effect on the economy.
- It allows people that don't have enough money or don't want to pay anymore, to still play if they have enough ISK.
- It is a safe way of trading, no chance to get hacked or infected by whatever.
- Together with Unholy Rage, it is part of the 2 fronted fight against hackers and botters, whom heaviliy stress the server ( as they often play 24/7 and very intensive ) or hack people's accounts and sell everything. People are able to buy/sell isk with other regular players.
- It reduces all the ISK spam bots in the game.
In a perfect world there would be no hackers or botters that sell ISK, but we don't live in a perfect world, and every other mmo out there that I know, faces the same issues, I applaud CCP to make such a balanced an inventive way to keep the game healthy.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by Kyleran Trying to figure out why you think EVE isn't made to control multiple characters. When I run missions in Empire, I routinely run 3 ships all on a single box with no problem. When I run wormhole OPs I run two ships, one to salvage and another to do DPS, again on a single box. Same with PVP, while fighting Empire wardecs I'd have a neutral scout out to observe and scout enemy movements in order to more effectively prosecute the war or to just watch neighboring systems while my other characters safely ran missions next door. I think EVE is an excellent game to run multiple accounts and don't see why you think it makes the game "ill". Heck, I pay full sub fees for all 3, and don't use PLEX's to keep them going. (I have other uses for my ISK)
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
I just want to clear a few things up around here about the myth that keeps on showing up in these forums. The fact is there is no where near 300k players. These are accounts, and personally many of these accounts are owned by people who multibox. I myself have 3 accounts, my close friends that I play with all have atleast 1 extra account for either covert ops "eyes", manufacturing, or logistics. This guy alone can describe 90% of eve players, not that everyone has this many accounts but in general this is how things are around EVE. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215928
I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.
Does this affect the game itself and make it less fun? Some say yes, but I don't feel it does. If I had to guess i'd say there is maybe 75k players at best. Which is still good. By no means is the game empty and in my opinion it has just the right number of players. Just thought I would clear it up. Cheers
I think you are completely wrong.
As EvE use only one server and that server give information about online player any moment of the day its very easy to calculate proximate number of active players in it. Here it is:
As I know average time played per week in MMOs is 14 hours which is 2 hours a day.
When I have played EVE there was between 15-40k players which make something like lets say 25k average players online.
As already mentioned average player play 2 hours a day which is 2/24 part of the day that is equal to 1/12 of the day.
Because average players online any moment of the day are 25k that mean there are 12x25k=300k player average players logged in a day.
About multi accounts: There are many peoples with more than one account in any MMO not only
Have to agree with you on many points.
Even right now when I normally see the least amount of people logged in, there are just over 25k on. That's a fairly impressive number even if we went as far as to re-calculate based on the upper estimate of multiple account holders.
Earlier I pointed out that more than 50% of the people I meet seem to have multiple accounts. I thought about it some more and realized that it could very well be a product of where I roam in Eve. Being deep in 0.0 it wouldn't be too far fetched to to assume that the majority of multiple account holders would be my neighbors.
Especially part of mega alliances partaking in mining ops.
So it could just be the company I keep so to speak.
Trying to figure out why you think EVE isn't made to control multiple characters. When I run missions in Empire, I routinely run 3 ships all on a single box with no problem. When I run wormhole OPs I run two ships, one to salvage and another to do DPS, again on a single box.
Same with PVP, while fighting Empire wardecs I'd have a neutral scout out to observe and scout enemy movements in order to more effectively prosecute the war or to just watch neighboring systems while my other characters safely ran missions next door.
I think EVE is an excellent game to run multiple accounts and don't see why you think it makes the game "ill".
Heck, I pay full sub fees for all 3, and don't use PLEX's to keep them going. (I have other uses for my ISK)
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
Nonsense, your logic is flawed. That I can control multiple accounts easily from a single computer proves that the game supports it quite well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
If you look at it from a pure ideologic point, then yes, you are correct, buying ISK from a person behind CCP's back or thru CCP are the same.
But this was a pragmatic solution, and a good one imho. The positive things about plexes :
- It does not magically create more ISK ( like item malls would ), so it only has a minor effect on the economy.
- It allows people that don't have enough money or don't want to pay anymore, to still play if they have enough ISK.
- It is a safe way of trading, no chance to get hacked or infected by whatever.
- Together with Unholy Rage, it is part of the 2 fronted fight against hackers and botters, whom heaviliy stress the server ( as they often play 24/7 and very intensive ) or hack people's accounts and sell everything. People are able to buy/sell isk with other regular players.
- It reduces all the ISK spam bots in the game.
In a perfect world there would be no hackers or botters that sell ISK, but we don't live in a perfect world, and every other mmo out there that I know, faces the same issues, I applaud CCP to make such a balanced an inventive way to keep the game healthy.
Oh I don't have anything against the practice at all. Hell Ive considered maybe trying to buy Plex card for my own two accounts.
My only annoyance was that CCP restricts one thing and supports another that to me didn't didn't seem any different.
Reading your post as to the reasoning behind it clears it up a bit for me though.
Oh I don't have anything against the practice at all. Hell Ive considered maybe trying to buy Plex card for my own two accounts.
My only annoyance was that CCP restricts one thing and supports another that to me didn't didn't seem any different. Reading your post as to the reasoning behind it clears it up a bit for me though.
CCP has done the only rational thing, to a real world problem.
Most games have a 'War on Gold Sales'. They spend thier resources trying to prevent the gold sellers from peddling thier undesirable wares.... and ultimately fail.
CCP has created a system to legalize, tax, and monitor these sales. This has worked out good for everyone... except the undesirables that were getting rich off the sale of illegal gold.
Originally posted by Kyleran Nonsense, your logic is flawed. That I can control multiple accounts easily from a single computer proves that the game supports it quite well. Simple as that.
Using workaround does not mean it is supported, it is just allowed and as such still far away from intended design.
Trying to figure out why you think EVE isn't made to control multiple characters. When I run missions in Empire, I routinely run 3 ships all on a single box with no problem. When I run wormhole OPs I run two ships, one to salvage and another to do DPS, again on a single box.
Same with PVP, while fighting Empire wardecs I'd have a neutral scout out to observe and scout enemy movements in order to more effectively prosecute the war or to just watch neighboring systems while my other characters safely ran missions next door.
I think EVE is an excellent game to run multiple accounts and don't see why you think it makes the game "ill".
Heck, I pay full sub fees for all 3, and don't use PLEX's to keep them going. (I have other uses for my ISK)
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
Nonsense, your logic is flawed. That I can control multiple accounts easily from a single computer proves that the game supports it quite well.
Simple as that.
The game supports it well indeed, it is easier to control multiple accounts in EVE than in most other mmo's, it is just a byproduct of the combat system, the offline skill training, the time it takes to specialize and the ability to scout. However I disagree that EVE was designed this way.
CCP also promotes it, because it gives them more money, but honestly, I think very few take multi accounts because of the "Power of two" adds. Perhaps it pulls some people over the edge, but as the numbers indicate ( lets call it 20% ) we can assume that most empire pve players do not have multiple accounts. Once people realise and have a use for the benefit of multi-accounts. Also plexes allows for easier multi accounting for the established players.
Now, is it bad for the game or not? It is certainly not the ideal way, but there is little CCP can do about it even if they wanted.
The 2 main downsides I see :
- People with more RL money can have more specialized characters faster, but that impact is not that great and the same as veterans who have more specialisations on 1 character
- It allows to scout with a cheap ship therefore reducing the risk of PvP and the element of surprise in EVE, however this gets negated fast when playing with more people.
The most important thing to me is that you are not required to have multiple accounts to be able to compete, unlike lets say in DAoC ( when I still played at least ), and since there is no way to stop multiple accounts in any mmo that I know off, again CCP looked at it pragmatically and makes regular deals to get cheaper alt accounts.
At least this is a better discussion to have than the wild claims with no ground the OP made, but perhaps he made it indeed so obvious so we ( the "EVE fanbois" ) would be able to easily defend EVE
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by CyberWiz The game supports it well indeed, it is easier to control multiple accounts in EVE than in most other mmo's, it is just a byproduct of the combat system, the offline skill training, the time it takes to specialize and the ability to scout. However I disagree that EVE was designed this way.CCP also promotes it, because it gives them more money, but honestly, I think very few take multi accounts because of the "Power of two" adds. Perhaps it pulls some people over the edge, but as the numbers indicate ( lets call it 20% ) we can assume that most empire pve players do not have multiple accounts. Once people realise and have a use for the benefit of multi-accounts. Also plexes allows for easier multi accounting for the established players. Now, is it bad for the game or not? It is certainly not the ideal way, but there is little CCP can do about it even if they wanted. The 2 main downsides I see : - People with more RL money can have more specialized characters faster, but that impact is not that great and the same as veterans who have more specialisations on 1 character - It allows to scout with a cheap ship therefore reducing the risk of PvP and the element of surprise in EVE, however this gets negated fast when playing with more people. The most important thing to me is that you are not required to have multiple accounts to be able to compete, unlike lets say in DAoC ( when I still played at least ), and since there is no way to stop multiple accounts in any mmo that I know off, again CCP looked at it pragmatically and makes regular deals to get cheaper alt accounts. At least this is a better discussion to have than the wild claims with no ground the OP made, but perhaps he made it indeed so obvious so we ( the "EVE fanbois" ) would be able to easily defend EVE
There is so many combat downsides it is not even funny - ECM alts, haulers with ammo and booster supply, gang bonus alts, probing alts, etc. etc.
We already know how many roles are not viable/hurt for new or simply any player because they are already taken by alts.
The combat use is just the most obvious, the major impact I suspect is the economical one. But that would be a discussing on ideology level only because the game already passed the point of no return.
Originally posted by LynxJSA DevBlog from 2008 regarding making corrections that increase performance when running two clients: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=613 Knowledgebase info on how to run multiple clients on the Mac: http://support.eve-online.com/pages/kb/article.aspx?id=380 In June 2008 they had released a patch specifically to correct an issue people where encountering when running 2 clients at once. Those are three items from a quick Google search.
Yes, they now allow and further technicaly support multi-accounting but it is still not an intended design.
If you want to play a game that lets you control more characters, I recommend you to check Sword of the New World: Granada Espada (Atlantica?) I think there are some others out there as well but those are only known to me.
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
What you are failing to understand is that CCP wants to control the RMT and make money from it. They dont want to let people handle it on thier own or let a 3rd party company profit from it.
Comments
Your argument reduces to "it's unhealthy because it's unhealthy, and it's bad because it's bad".
I have 2 accounts. What's "unhealthy" about the fact that I like the game enough to pay for it twice?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
After coming upon this thread while searching google, I decided to register here and add another tid bit of info.
About a year and a half to two years ago CCP had a MOTD on the login screen announcing that they had broken their concurrent login record.
It went on to say that the new record was just over 55,000 users logged in at once. In addition they did a bit of bragging in regard to how well the servers handled the load.
Of course it crashed that very same evening, but thats another story entirely.
I havent seen them announce a new record since. If there was a new record in such a short period of time since, I highly doubt it would be nearly 6 times the current. By that point eve had been around for quite some time and it is widely speculated that the number of subscribers were at their peak. (This was right around the time eve started having commercials during Galactica episodes and it brought quite a few people into the game.)
Anyhow, its one of those situations I clearly remember as our corp spoke of it on Vent the following day. We all thought the numbers were fairly impressive. However, we later realized that there was another important factor to consider.
The Multi Account theory :
If the period of time prior to the record being broken, CCP was offering a special deal on opening a second account. Anybody who did so during that period were allowed both accounts at $19.00 a month for six months.A ton of people took advantage of the deal, including myself.
Not long after they broke the login record.
Edit: I should add that I love the game and have yet to play any other MMO that I enjoyed nearly as much. I'm just mentioning this to clear up any notion that I might be flaming the game.
Last PCU record was broken in early 2009
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/44661/EVE-Online-Breaks-Peak-Concurrent-User-Record
Not long after that, CCP started their "unholy rage" campaign which - observationally I reckon sliced off about 6k from the average login number.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Actually, it's very relevant. If you're saying that having multiple accounts is unhealthy and that the MMO has significantly less players, then it is true of all MMOs, correct? After all, they all have the same percentage of multiple accounts. Or do thay? Maybe they have more. I tell you what, I'll accept as fact the assumption that other MMOs have more multiple account owners, therefore EVE has more realistic numbers than any other MMO.
Based on your many posts on this topic, it's entirely possible you're thinking "False. They have a lower percentage." Do they? Mu point is, you have nothing to gauge it against other than personal assumption. You are accepting your assumption as fact and, as a result, stating that EVE has significantly more multiple account users than other MMOs. I say 'significantly' because if the difference between the percentage in EVE and other MMOs is trivial, then this would be an MMO issue and not some EVE-specific tinfoilhattery, no?
Worse, you have either convinced yourself that "less than 20% is no different from "at least 20%" or you somehow think you can convice everyone else of that. GD, if you were promised at least 20% of something but received less than 20% you'd probably see a bot of a difference between the two.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I personally really don't care how many subscribers a game has as long as:
1) There are enough to keep the game up and running
2) There are enough for me to have a positive gaming experience when I log on
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
True.
It really is a great game. I've always enjoyed the complexity and depth of it.
How many other MMO's continually release fairly large expansions for free to all subscribers?
All you do is disagree with me and repeat the same stuff ignoring any arguments I brought in nor using any of yours. You can disagree with me but that does not make my assumptions less valid.
I am not biased or twisting facts. You disagree with using 20% multi-account users as top line but I also used 2 accounts per individual numbers as bottom line to 'even it out' and get some 'average'. I could do some more adjusting numbers on both ends but it would get me about same numbers.
It is a valid and objective way how to set up an assumption, if you disagree - fine but if you claim my assumption invalid, you have to proof or point out otherwise.
I will repeat that agin since you nor Malcanis can't read what I write - Using the numbers provided by CCP and making assumption which none of you pointed a flaw in, I personaly consider what they represent a bad for game like EVE is.
Comparing EVE to other MMOs is absurd.
- other MMOs don't have single persistant world
- other MMOs don't have death penalty
- other MMOs don't have such robust economy
- other MMOs don't have truly interactive, multiplayer content
- other MMOs don't have etc. etc.
The difference between EVE and other MMOs is so significant that the impact of multi-accounting is different as much as the difference between EVE and those you are comaring to.
I generaly like your posts because they are constructive, logical and rise some witt points and remarks but that is what your posts completely lack now
All you do is disagree with me and repeat the same stuff ignoring any arguments I brought in nor using any of yours. You can disagree with me but that does not make my assumptions less valid.
I am not biased or twisting facts. You disagree with using 20% multi-account users as top line but I also used 2 accounts per individual numbers as bottom line to 'even it out' and get some 'average'. I could do some more adjusting numbers on both ends but it would get me about same numbers.
It is a valid and objective way how to set up an assumption, if you disagree - fine but if you claim my assumption invalid, you have to proof or point out otherwise.
I will repeat that agin since you nor Malcanis can't read what I write - Using the numbers provided by CCP and making assumption which none of you pointed a flaw in, I personaly consider what they represent a bad for game like EVE is.
Comparing EVE to other MMOs is absurd.
- other MMOs don't have single persistant world
- other MMOs don't have death penalty
- other MMOs don't have such robust economy
- other MMOs don't have truly interactive, multiplayer content
- other MMOs don't have etc. etc.
The difference between EVE and other MMOs is so significant that the impact of multi-accounting is different as much as the difference between EVE and those you are comaring to.
I generaly like your posts because they are constructive, logical and rise some witt points and remarks but that is what your posts completely lack now
On that same token its fair to point out that in some ways its simply easier to manage multiple accounts in eve.
Since you don't have to go out and fight and gain experience to advance your character, it makes it much easier to a let a second account sit and train. You don't have to worry about trying to control multiple characters farming for experience as you would in other games.
Granted, implants and equipment is another thing. But if you already have a character sitting on a horde of ISK then its just a matter of equiping your second account once its trained.
I think you are completely wrong.
As EvE use only one server and that server give information about online player any moment of the day its very easy to calculate proximate number of active players in it. Here it is:
As I know average time played per week in MMOs is 14 hours which is 2 hours a day.
When I have played EVE there was between 15-40k players which make something like lets say 25k average players online.
As already mentioned average player play 2 hours a day which is 2/24 part of the day that is equal to 1/12 of the day.
Because average players online any moment of the day are 25k that mean there are 12x25k=300k player average players logged in a day.
About multi accounts: There are many peoples with more than one account in any MMO not only EvE.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Yeah, real-time skill training was on the list when I realized the list would be too long and replaced it with etc. etc.
Multi-accounting is bad. EVE is not designed for you to control more characters.
I understand it is paying the maintenance and development but it is making the game 'ill'.
300k subscribers is a potentional of 300k individual players - EVE community. 20% of that is 60k subs. Taking multiply accounts into consideration = 120k subscribers is a bare minimum of how many subscriptions are taken by multiply accounts.
EDIT:
CCP kieron posted this on 2007.01.19 21:04:00. While there is no newer update on those numbers, I work with what I have got. And honestly, there is no reason to think that this number changed much. In fact, it could decrease as much as it could increase.
Trying to figure out why you think EVE isn't made to control multiple characters. When I run missions in Empire, I routinely run 3 ships all on a single box with no problem. When I run wormhole OPs I run two ships, one to salvage and another to do DPS, again on a single box.
Same with PVP, while fighting Empire wardecs I'd have a neutral scout out to observe and scout enemy movements in order to more effectively prosecute the war or to just watch neighboring systems while my other characters safely ran missions next door.
I think EVE is an excellent game to run multiple accounts and don't see why you think it makes the game "ill".
Heck, I pay full sub fees for all 3, and don't use PLEX's to keep them going. (I have other uses for my ISK)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For the most part, most know that, and it isn't much different for other games that are very popular like eve is. But for me, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
If you look at it from a pure ideologic point, then yes, you are correct, buying ISK from a person behind CCP's back or thru CCP are the same.
But this was a pragmatic solution, and a good one imho. The positive things about plexes :
- It does not magically create more ISK ( like item malls would ), so it only has a minor effect on the economy.
- It allows people that don't have enough money or don't want to pay anymore, to still play if they have enough ISK.
- It is a safe way of trading, no chance to get hacked or infected by whatever.
- Together with Unholy Rage, it is part of the 2 fronted fight against hackers and botters, whom heaviliy stress the server ( as they often play 24/7 and very intensive ) or hack people's accounts and sell everything. People are able to buy/sell isk with other regular players.
- It reduces all the ISK spam bots in the game.
In a perfect world there would be no hackers or botters that sell ISK, but we don't live in a perfect world, and every other mmo out there that I know, faces the same issues, I applaud CCP to make such a balanced an inventive way to keep the game healthy.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
I think you are completely wrong.
As EvE use only one server and that server give information about online player any moment of the day its very easy to calculate proximate number of active players in it. Here it is:
As I know average time played per week in MMOs is 14 hours which is 2 hours a day.
When I have played EVE there was between 15-40k players which make something like lets say 25k average players online.
As already mentioned average player play 2 hours a day which is 2/24 part of the day that is equal to 1/12 of the day.
Because average players online any moment of the day are 25k that mean there are 12x25k=300k player average players logged in a day.
About multi accounts: There are many peoples with more than one account in any MMO not only
Have to agree with you on many points.
Even right now when I normally see the least amount of people logged in, there are just over 25k on. That's a fairly impressive number even if we went as far as to re-calculate based on the upper estimate of multiple account holders.
Earlier I pointed out that more than 50% of the people I meet seem to have multiple accounts. I thought about it some more and realized that it could very well be a product of where I roam in Eve. Being deep in 0.0 it wouldn't be too far fetched to to assume that the majority of multiple account holders would be my neighbors.
Especially part of mega alliances partaking in mining ops.
So it could just be the company I keep so to speak.
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
Nonsense, your logic is flawed. That I can control multiple accounts easily from a single computer proves that the game supports it quite well.
Simple as that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
If you look at it from a pure ideologic point, then yes, you are correct, buying ISK from a person behind CCP's back or thru CCP are the same.
But this was a pragmatic solution, and a good one imho. The positive things about plexes :
- It does not magically create more ISK ( like item malls would ), so it only has a minor effect on the economy.
- It allows people that don't have enough money or don't want to pay anymore, to still play if they have enough ISK.
- It is a safe way of trading, no chance to get hacked or infected by whatever.
- Together with Unholy Rage, it is part of the 2 fronted fight against hackers and botters, whom heaviliy stress the server ( as they often play 24/7 and very intensive ) or hack people's accounts and sell everything. People are able to buy/sell isk with other regular players.
- It reduces all the ISK spam bots in the game.
In a perfect world there would be no hackers or botters that sell ISK, but we don't live in a perfect world, and every other mmo out there that I know, faces the same issues, I applaud CCP to make such a balanced an inventive way to keep the game healthy.
Oh I don't have anything against the practice at all. Hell Ive considered maybe trying to buy Plex card for my own two accounts.
My only annoyance was that CCP restricts one thing and supports another that to me didn't didn't seem any different.
Reading your post as to the reasoning behind it clears it up a bit for me though.
CCP has done the only rational thing, to a real world problem.
Most games have a 'War on Gold Sales'. They spend thier resources trying to prevent the gold sellers from peddling thier undesirable wares.... and ultimately fail.
CCP has created a system to legalize, tax, and monitor these sales. This has worked out good for everyone... except the undesirables that were getting rich off the sale of illegal gold.
If you were supposed to control more characters at the same time, you would do it withing 1 client and 1 account. Simple as that.
Nonsense, your logic is flawed. That I can control multiple accounts easily from a single computer proves that the game supports it quite well.
Simple as that.
The game supports it well indeed, it is easier to control multiple accounts in EVE than in most other mmo's, it is just a byproduct of the combat system, the offline skill training, the time it takes to specialize and the ability to scout. However I disagree that EVE was designed this way.
CCP also promotes it, because it gives them more money, but honestly, I think very few take multi accounts because of the "Power of two" adds. Perhaps it pulls some people over the edge, but as the numbers indicate ( lets call it 20% ) we can assume that most empire pve players do not have multiple accounts. Once people realise and have a use for the benefit of multi-accounts. Also plexes allows for easier multi accounting for the established players.
Now, is it bad for the game or not? It is certainly not the ideal way, but there is little CCP can do about it even if they wanted.
The 2 main downsides I see :
- People with more RL money can have more specialized characters faster, but that impact is not that great and the same as veterans who have more specialisations on 1 character
- It allows to scout with a cheap ship therefore reducing the risk of PvP and the element of surprise in EVE, however this gets negated fast when playing with more people.
The most important thing to me is that you are not required to have multiple accounts to be able to compete, unlike lets say in DAoC ( when I still played at least ), and since there is no way to stop multiple accounts in any mmo that I know off, again CCP looked at it pragmatically and makes regular deals to get cheaper alt accounts.
At least this is a better discussion to have than the wild claims with no ground the OP made, but perhaps he made it indeed so obvious so we ( the "EVE fanbois" ) would be able to easily defend EVE
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
DevBlog from 2008 regarding making corrections that increase performance when running two clients:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=613
Knowledgebase info on how to run multiple clients on the Mac:
http://support.eve-online.com/pages/kb/article.aspx?id=380
In June 2008 they had released a patch specifically to correct an issue people where encountering when running 2 clients at once.
Those are three items from a quick Google search.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
There is so many combat downsides it is not even funny - ECM alts, haulers with ammo and booster supply, gang bonus alts, probing alts, etc. etc.
We already know how many roles are not viable/hurt for new or simply any player because they are already taken by alts.
The combat use is just the most obvious, the major impact I suspect is the economical one.
But that would be a discussing on ideology level only because the game already passed the point of no return.
Yes, they now allow and further technicaly support multi-accounting but it is still not an intended design.
If you want to play a game that lets you control more characters, I recommend you to check Sword of the New World: Granada Espada (Atlantica?)
I think there are some others out there as well but those are only known to me.
It sounds like you are confusing concurrent users and subscriber numbers.
You are correct.
As insane as it sounds I actually read the thread as somebody making the outrageous claim that 300k people were logged in at once.
Turkey day wine had hold of me during my initial post, or I'm insane.. Or both.
In either sense, as to the subscriber issue. I have to admit that it seems like more than 50% of the people Ive met and talked to in game have had at least two accounts.
I've played a ton of MMO's and had never seen the multi account trend go as far as it does in Eve. As mentioned above, they disabled ghosting of skills. Its quite possible that since that point, the number has dropped. I can however off the top of my head name at least ten people who have 4+ accounts.
You know it may have quite a bit to do with the CCP sanctioned selling of game time cards as well. There are a ton of people in eve that haven't paid a dime of real money for their accounts in years.
You simply go onto the timecard channel and youll be assaulted with a relentless barrage of time card for isk (eve currency) offers.
Now CCP has taken it a step further to allow people to buy PLEX (pilots license extension) cards. Its a 30 day extension which after purchase shows up as an in game item to be traded or used on yourself.
They ban people for selling and buying ISK on the servers.
And yet its acceptable to pay real money for pilots extensions and then sell them in game for ISK. I think the going rate is 300mil ISK for a 30 day plex. This is an amount that a 0.0 dweller with multiple accounts could likely breeze through in a day.
Isn't that basically the _same_ thing as buying game currency with real money?
Anyhow, do you think this contributes to the large number of multiple account subscribers? Since there is a way to play without paying out a dime, then the multiple account option might be a bit more plausible to people than it would be in other MMO's.
What you are failing to understand is that CCP wants to control the RMT and make money from it. They dont want to let people handle it on thier own or let a 3rd party company profit from it.