Auto-attack: It really makes combat uninteresting. I like combat systems wear you're in control of every move you make. Having an auto attack just makes combat slower and mind numbingly easy.
Edit: also, in terms of itemization, I don't like how wearing a robe makes you smarter, how wearing that helmet makes you stronger and how holding that sword makes you more agile.
Another topic reminded me of this. Jumping. And not because you can do it, I'm more annoyed with how it's used. To be exact, people that spam the jump button when ever they are moving or are just waiting for something.
I have to agree. I hate the jump button. Attach some sort of fatigue system to jump and then I might be on board with all of that jumpin'.
As you may be aware, or as others also may not, EQ1 implemented Jump with a fatique system. Quite effective means of limiting the moronic uses of it. Or mostly so at least. I'd increase the fatique decline and jump height with successive uses.
1) Mobs with no chance to win still attack instead of run 2) The Holy Trinity (tanking and in-combat healing) 3) Stealth (the invisible in broad daylight kind)
On the topic of "The Holy Trinity"
Would anyone like to share their alternative idea?
The Holy Trinity isn't a game mechanic any more than grinding is IMO......one of the game mechanics which isn't technically a game mechanic (but sort of is-its an element of the game the dev's actually put in, unlike the Trinity) that I dislike is shitty AI's on the mobs which allow players to use simple minded tactics in PvE (the Trinity).
This. Game systems have to be designed from the beginning with this in mind. WoW + Permadeath? err, no thanks.
Thanks for picking that up.
Exactly my point.
The PnP D&D was designed for Permadeath too (if that's the way you choose to play) so I would argue that DDO was designed for permadeath as an option if players want to play that way.
PvP can severly break a game for a MAJORITY of players. If you have unrestricted pvp or if you do it like what wow does go into contested area and you're flagged. People could get ganked over and over and over again. Ganking=fresh players quitting. W/o pvp we'd never have to worry about it. Also PvE is WAY EASIER to balance than PvP. PvP brings with it a select minority of players. Not all pvpers are the type to ruin the game for others. But there is a small minority which does. They will be able to ruin the game more than all the unbalance of PvE combined.
I honestly don't find many mechanics to be outright dumb,but TCOS hotbar idea imo is maybe the only dumb idea i have seen in gaming.I do want to give the guy credit for trying to think outside the box,but all he accomplished was taking an idea "the hotbar" and make it worse,making something worse is imo a dumb idea.Different is ok also,but this was not a case of different ,because it still uses the exact same premise as a normal hotbar,it just made it so you were extremely limited in it's use.
The whole purpose of a hotbar is to make things simpler not more cumbersome and restrictive,and that is all that it achieved.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
PvP (but that's only in mmorpgs) PvP can severly break a game for a MAJORITY of players. If you have unrestricted pvp or if you do it like what wow does go into contested area and you're flagged. People could get ganked over and over and over again. Ganking=fresh players quitting. ....
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff a certain number of days... ACTUAL DAYS.... QUESTS: The escort quest. Following a person who has an inability to run, yet, walks just slightly faster than you can, so you have to move at a strange pace, and are too preoccupied doing this to understand why the NPC has just sprinted to aggro an entire group of elite mobs that wipe your whole party....
Amen! I cancel out of these the instant I figure out that I've stumbled into one. I HATE these.-maybe if there was a mechanic so I could get points from killing these NPC-clowns myself...
Originally posted by Gyrus PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up. If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game. The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour. There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
Of course it can be done, Eve and DAoC did it, and GW2 will do it even better. But as you said must you take aspects like that in from the beginning, adding PvP late makes the game badly balanced.
PvP (but that's only in mmorpgs) PvP can severly break a game for a MAJORITY of players. If you have unrestricted pvp or if you do it like what wow does go into contested area and you're flagged. People could get ganked over and over and over again. Ganking=fresh players quitting. ....
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
The whole mechanic of PvP though is quite dumb imo. Think about it, designers almost KNOW that if they don't give you both PvP and PvE their game won't be wildply successful. If PvP had never came into MMORPGs we'd never have to even worry about it. PvP was started in competative games such as FPS. FPS and other action based games do fine with player combat.
When it was first introduced into mmos it ruined the genre, it's just how it is and will always be. PvP was the dumbest thing to hit mmorpgs. As they almost never do well in their own way.
PvP (but that's only in mmorpgs) PvP can severly break a game for a MAJORITY of players. If you have unrestricted pvp or if you do it like what wow does go into contested area and you're flagged. People could get ganked over and over and over again. Ganking=fresh players quitting. ....
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
The whole mechanic of PvP though is quite dumb imo. Think about it, designers almost KNOW that if they don't give you both PvP and PvE their game won't be wildply successful. If PvP had never came into MMORPGs we'd never have to even worry about it. PvP was started in competative games such as FPS. FPS and other action based games do fine with player combat.
When it was first introduced into mmos it ruined the genre, it's just how it is and will always be. PvP was the dumbest thing to hit mmorpgs. As they almost never do well in their own way.
Not entirely true, PvP came to the MMO's because MMO's were perfect for it. While FPS games were stuck in 8v8 lan games, or on private servers, we were having fights with several hundred people, on public servers. And PvP was a great idea, but it went wrong somewhere. It went from just having fun, to absolutely having to win. That's my main problem with most PvP atm, PvE is usually laid back, do what you want, when you want, and go hardcore when you feel like it. But PvP has to be hardcore, or you get ROFLPWNEDLOLOLOL...
I miss the days when ts/vent haven't reached GW yet. My guild did guild battles with the worst builds ever, and still won, and it was fun...
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
I honestly don't find many mechanics to be outright dumb,but TCOS hotbar idea imo is maybe the only dumb idea i have seen in gaming.I do want to give the guy credit for trying to think outside the box,but all he accomplished was taking an idea "the hotbar" and make it worse,making something worse is imo a dumb idea.Different is ok also,but this was not a case of different ,because it still uses the exact same premise as a normal hotbar,it just made it so you were extremely limited in it's use. The whole purpose of a hotbar is to make things simpler not more cumbersome and restrictive,and that is all that it achieved.
The idea behind something is the idea developers have about it
The idea behind TCoS hotbar is similar to the one in Guild Wars. I think it is briliant idea as it act as a "build" for your char. It give much more strategy in game play as you have restricted number of skills, till that restriction gives posibility for rich class skills overall.
For me most dumbest mechanics in mmos are all mechanics that eliminate massive gameplay from it and make them just a multiplayer. When I want a multiplayer gameplay typically I go to play some shooter or DOTA and its very dumb to try some MMO to find that it is just a persistent world multiplayer game!
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Originally posted by Gyrus In context permadeath works.
Nope, sorry, it doesn't. A death penalty with a real sting to it is good, for all the reasons you stated, but a crippling one, let alone permadeath, simply cannot be justified in a game where you can get killed when your inherently unreliable network connection fails. You can't cut somebody a break because of a failed connection, either, because then everybody just pulls their network plug when they see they're about to die.
Nope, sorry, it doesn't. A death penalty with a real sting to it is good, for all the reasons you stated, but a crippling one, let alone permadeath, simply cannot be justified in a game where you can get killed when your inherently unreliable network connection fails. You can't cut somebody a break because of a failed connection, either, because then everybody just pulls their network plug when they see they're about to die
Sure it could work. I don't think it could work it a heavy twitch game, nor would it work in a game with the status quo version of progression (days,weeks,etc). Maybe not even in a game that is 95+% based on combat.
Daze mechanic. When running away people and npc's stun you causing you to move slowly. Somone should be required to use a stun skill or use a weapon that suns in order to stun you, not get a free sun couse you have your back turned.
Grey vendor trash. Without a doubt. Every time I get some, I can hear the devs laughing at me.
I think Allods is going to try to change that, at least a little. Playing the USA Closed Beta Test 1 I made it to the League capital city and there were vendors for the different classes with USEFUL items, not just some random white useless items like in WoW.
White gear actually has a use in WOW.
I have stuck good enchants on white gear and used it as leveling gear for alts and guild members, since it doesn't bind to the first user.
If I was making an MMO, grey vendor trash would be the first standard to be kicked out of the design.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Web SItes. I think players have become dependent on these for information like builds, quests, loot, etc, etc. I think it actually kills community. I remember when you actually had to ask other players questions. See a guy carrying a sword you thought was cool, "Hey adventurer, where did you find such a sword?" Now you just inspect that character, look at sword name, go online and find sword, get details to obtain, then go obtain. I have done it myself, but wish I hadn't in hindsight.
Server Sizes. I for one don't like some of the numbers the servers can hold. In WoW it is a major turn off to see a cluster of people all over one another in a town. It is the reason I prefer Vanguard, less population. I little too small really, but definately better than the alternative. Which leads me to another dislike.
Social Hubs. I hate when players gather in mass in a single area. It just kills the emersion for me. And on top of that, I hate seeing players that are crazy high levels in my, what should be, lowbie town. I want what I see and can't obtain anytime soon. If zones were more level centric that wouldn't be a problem. Or if the game wasn't designed on level and gear, like old SWG, that too would fix the problem.
Social Hubs. I hate when players gather in mass in a single area. It just kills the emersion for me. And on top of that, I hate seeing players that are crazy high levels in my, what should be, lowbie town. I want what I see and can't obtain anytime soon. If zones were more level centric that wouldn't be a problem. Or if the game wasn't designed on level and gear, like old SWG, that too would fix the problem.
I understand your opinion is entirely your own but... you don't like people actually populating what was designed to be a town? A population to go with a city? I would venture to say a sense of a world being 'alive' is a good thing?
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
Social Hubs. I hate when players gather in mass in a single area. It just kills the emersion for me. And on top of that, I hate seeing players that are crazy high levels in my, what should be, lowbie town. I want what I see and can't obtain anytime soon. If zones were more level centric that wouldn't be a problem. Or if the game wasn't designed on level and gear, like old SWG, that too would fix the problem.
I understand your opinion is entirely your own but... you don't like people actually populating what was designed to be a town? A population to go with a city? I would venture to say a sense of a world being 'alive' is a good thing?
No I do, when done correctly. When I played WoW, Orgrimar is so crowded near the bank and mail box, that I can hardly tell where one person ends and the next begins. I just don't like the overcrowded areas. If it is going to be like this, then make towns instanced, with less than a 100 person instance. Or better yet, make the town bigger with a couple of banks and mailboxes.
But like you said, it is my opinion. I know a lot of people are against instancing (as am I for the most part), thus the alternative option. I remember in SWG a city I frequented had at least 4 bank terminals, so it spread people out a bit. I just don't like my fantasy town to feel like the streets of New York.
I'd say it's a tossup between pre-nge SWG jedi and DDO's collectible mechanic.
On the former, you force people to play your game in a way that's not fun for months, so that they can get an "I win" button, all while taking a big fat deuce on the IP lore.
On the latter, you run around picking up items that are only worth something to 1 npc, who will reward you with stuff that you probably have no use for.
Comments
Auto-attack: It really makes combat uninteresting. I like combat systems wear you're in control of every move you make. Having an auto attack just makes combat slower and mind numbingly easy.
Edit: also, in terms of itemization, I don't like how wearing a robe makes you smarter, how wearing that helmet makes you stronger and how holding that sword makes you more agile.
Just how loot works in general pisses me off too.
This statement is false.
asian grind fests
Combat where you can take a hit to the face from a 6ft two-handed sword and live
I have to agree. I hate the jump button. Attach some sort of fatigue system to jump and then I might be on board with all of that jumpin'.
As you may be aware, or as others also may not, EQ1 implemented Jump with a fatique system. Quite effective means of limiting the moronic uses of it. Or mostly so at least. I'd increase the fatique decline and jump height with successive uses.
On the topic of "The Holy Trinity"
Would anyone like to share their alternative idea?
The Holy Trinity isn't a game mechanic any more than grinding is IMO......one of the game mechanics which isn't technically a game mechanic (but sort of is-its an element of the game the dev's actually put in, unlike the Trinity) that I dislike is shitty AI's on the mobs which allow players to use simple minded tactics in PvE (the Trinity).
This. Game systems have to be designed from the beginning with this in mind. WoW + Permadeath? err, no thanks.
Thanks for picking that up.
Exactly my point.
The PnP D&D was designed for Permadeath too (if that's the way you choose to play) so I would argue that DDO was designed for permadeath as an option if players want to play that way.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
PvP (but that's only in mmorpgs)
PvP can severly break a game for a MAJORITY of players. If you have unrestricted pvp or if you do it like what wow does go into contested area and you're flagged. People could get ganked over and over and over again. Ganking=fresh players quitting. W/o pvp we'd never have to worry about it. Also PvE is WAY EASIER to balance than PvP. PvP brings with it a select minority of players. Not all pvpers are the type to ruin the game for others. But there is a small minority which does. They will be able to ruin the game more than all the unbalance of PvE combined.
I honestly don't find many mechanics to be outright dumb,but TCOS hotbar idea imo is maybe the only dumb idea i have seen in gaming.I do want to give the guy credit for trying to think outside the box,but all he accomplished was taking an idea "the hotbar" and make it worse,making something worse is imo a dumb idea.Different is ok also,but this was not a case of different ,because it still uses the exact same premise as a normal hotbar,it just made it so you were extremely limited in it's use.
The whole purpose of a hotbar is to make things simpler not more cumbersome and restrictive,and that is all that it achieved.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Amen! I cancel out of these the instant I figure out that I've stumbled into one. I HATE these.-maybe if there was a mechanic so I could get points from killing these NPC-clowns myself...
Of course it can be done, Eve and DAoC did it, and GW2 will do it even better. But as you said must you take aspects like that in from the beginning, adding PvP late makes the game badly balanced.
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
The whole mechanic of PvP though is quite dumb imo. Think about it, designers almost KNOW that if they don't give you both PvP and PvE their game won't be wildply successful. If PvP had never came into MMORPGs we'd never have to even worry about it. PvP was started in competative games such as FPS. FPS and other action based games do fine with player combat.
When it was first introduced into mmos it ruined the genre, it's just how it is and will always be. PvP was the dumbest thing to hit mmorpgs. As they almost never do well in their own way.
Forced Grouping when it come to leveling. Will always make me leave whatsoever.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
PvP and RvR have the same problems if the game is not designed around them from the ground up.
If you are going to have either (or both) of those elements in a game they have do be factored into design from day one and considered in every aspect of the game.
The problem is that many games are designed as level progression PvE games and the PvP and RvR are tacked on at the eleventh hour.
There are browser based games with successful PvP and RvR - so it can be done.
The whole mechanic of PvP though is quite dumb imo. Think about it, designers almost KNOW that if they don't give you both PvP and PvE their game won't be wildply successful. If PvP had never came into MMORPGs we'd never have to even worry about it. PvP was started in competative games such as FPS. FPS and other action based games do fine with player combat.
When it was first introduced into mmos it ruined the genre, it's just how it is and will always be. PvP was the dumbest thing to hit mmorpgs. As they almost never do well in their own way.
Not entirely true, PvP came to the MMO's because MMO's were perfect for it. While FPS games were stuck in 8v8 lan games, or on private servers, we were having fights with several hundred people, on public servers. And PvP was a great idea, but it went wrong somewhere. It went from just having fun, to absolutely having to win. That's my main problem with most PvP atm, PvE is usually laid back, do what you want, when you want, and go hardcore when you feel like it. But PvP has to be hardcore, or you get ROFLPWNEDLOLOLOL...
I miss the days when ts/vent haven't reached GW yet. My guild did guild battles with the worst builds ever, and still won, and it was fun...
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
The idea behind something is the idea developers have about it
The idea behind TCoS hotbar is similar to the one in Guild Wars. I think it is briliant idea as it act as a "build" for your char. It give much more strategy in game play as you have restricted number of skills, till that restriction gives posibility for rich class skills overall.
For me most dumbest mechanics in mmos are all mechanics that eliminate massive gameplay from it and make them just a multiplayer. When I want a multiplayer gameplay typically I go to play some shooter or DOTA and its very dumb to try some MMO to find that it is just a persistent world multiplayer game!
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Nope, sorry, it doesn't. A death penalty with a real sting to it is good, for all the reasons you stated, but a crippling one, let alone permadeath, simply cannot be justified in a game where you can get killed when your inherently unreliable network connection fails. You can't cut somebody a break because of a failed connection, either, because then everybody just pulls their network plug when they see they're about to die.
Instanced dungeons
Nope, sorry, it doesn't. A death penalty with a real sting to it is good, for all the reasons you stated, but a crippling one, let alone permadeath, simply cannot be justified in a game where you can get killed when your inherently unreliable network connection fails. You can't cut somebody a break because of a failed connection, either, because then everybody just pulls their network plug when they see they're about to die
Sure it could work. I don't think it could work it a heavy twitch game, nor would it work in a game with the status quo version of progression (days,weeks,etc). Maybe not even in a game that is 95+% based on combat.
Daze mechanic. When running away people and npc's stun you causing you to move slowly. Somone should be required to use a stun skill or use a weapon that suns in order to stun you, not get a free sun couse you have your back turned.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
I think Allods is going to try to change that, at least a little. Playing the USA Closed Beta Test 1 I made it to the League capital city and there were vendors for the different classes with USEFUL items, not just some random white useless items like in WoW.
White gear actually has a use in WOW.
I have stuck good enchants on white gear and used it as leveling gear for alts and guild members, since it doesn't bind to the first user.
If I was making an MMO, grey vendor trash would be the first standard to be kicked out of the design.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No caps on skill advancement games, absolute death imo. Closely followed by no skill degredation over time on skill games.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
My complaints, but not all game mechanics.
Web SItes. I think players have become dependent on these for information like builds, quests, loot, etc, etc. I think it actually kills community. I remember when you actually had to ask other players questions. See a guy carrying a sword you thought was cool, "Hey adventurer, where did you find such a sword?" Now you just inspect that character, look at sword name, go online and find sword, get details to obtain, then go obtain. I have done it myself, but wish I hadn't in hindsight.
Server Sizes. I for one don't like some of the numbers the servers can hold. In WoW it is a major turn off to see a cluster of people all over one another in a town. It is the reason I prefer Vanguard, less population. I little too small really, but definately better than the alternative. Which leads me to another dislike.
Social Hubs. I hate when players gather in mass in a single area. It just kills the emersion for me. And on top of that, I hate seeing players that are crazy high levels in my, what should be, lowbie town. I want what I see and can't obtain anytime soon. If zones were more level centric that wouldn't be a problem. Or if the game wasn't designed on level and gear, like old SWG, that too would fix the problem.
I understand your opinion is entirely your own but... you don't like people actually populating what was designed to be a town? A population to go with a city? I would venture to say a sense of a world being 'alive' is a good thing?
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I understand your opinion is entirely your own but... you don't like people actually populating what was designed to be a town? A population to go with a city? I would venture to say a sense of a world being 'alive' is a good thing?
No I do, when done correctly. When I played WoW, Orgrimar is so crowded near the bank and mail box, that I can hardly tell where one person ends and the next begins. I just don't like the overcrowded areas. If it is going to be like this, then make towns instanced, with less than a 100 person instance. Or better yet, make the town bigger with a couple of banks and mailboxes.
But like you said, it is my opinion. I know a lot of people are against instancing (as am I for the most part), thus the alternative option. I remember in SWG a city I frequented had at least 4 bank terminals, so it spread people out a bit. I just don't like my fantasy town to feel like the streets of New York.
I'd say it's a tossup between pre-nge SWG jedi and DDO's collectible mechanic.
On the former, you force people to play your game in a way that's not fun for months, so that they can get an "I win" button, all while taking a big fat deuce on the IP lore.
On the latter, you run around picking up items that are only worth something to 1 npc, who will reward you with stuff that you probably have no use for.
Who am I kiddin'... SWG's goof wins by a mile...