Personally I thought part of the allure for playing MMO's was to show-case what you've acquired and achieved, whether it be alone or grouping...
With that said, I'm all for them removing the class description for our characters from our names/paper dolls etc. I don't feel a player should be able to hover their cursor over my avatar and see what I am...... With the exception, if maybe characters had a lore skill they could work on that would allow them to hover over a characters avatar to discern what class they are.
Being able to see a good chunk of information on characters is fine imo.
I dunno, I've rarely had an issue with people being able to see my stuff. Like Emeraq said, it's part of the allure of MMORPGs for people to be vain about their characters.
Jerks are jerks and people are going to be ignorant either way. To be honest, freely available information helps players be less ignorant.
But yeah...I'll trade you not knowing Spec/Gear of characters if you'll trade me the ability to see the DPS they had in their last few instance runs Certain types of information are more useful than others.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Since I don't see this going away any time soon, I'd like an option to tell the game NOT to publish my info on any of their web sites and have the option to not allow people to inspect me. I tend to play games my way, and part of the fun for me is having people guess as to what I'm doing and maintain the mystery of it all.
I really don't want others to know why I do certain things. Maybe I've found a different approach to a situation that works just as well as other more "acceptable" ones and often times all the elitist pricks will bitch and moan because their way is "better". Last thing I want is others inspecting me then going off and copying me, or bitching me out because I'm not following some norm.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
OK rant time. I hate invasion of privacy in mmos. I hate inspections, I hate that every pos asshat needs to see what i've done in game before hand. From WoW to Eve some dickhead wants to see my stuff! Well it's mine (or atleast until you kill me for it). Dont ask what i've done, dont try to find out my spec, my skill training its all personal information. Don't look at the stats on my gear, fuck!!!! I don't even want you to know what my class or skill template is!!! The less you know about what I do in my video game the better. All of these asshat programs like WoWs gear score and stupid fucking armory's are so lame. Why do you need to know? If i was a knight would you walk up to me and tap on my armor to see its thickness or check how sharp my blade is? would you ask around and see who I killed? no of course not because if you touch or even ask about my stuff I would kill your ass. A lot of these developers think their delivering a service to players by publishing information of every ones characters on the net, taking away players privacy. Giving the elitist pricks ammo to be even bigger douche bags. I work hard for my stuff and instead of using crappy mechanics to sneak a peak at my stuff or achievements in a game maybe you could be a god damn human being and get to know me first and just ask. Its pretty simple imo. "hey what dungeons have you beaten?" FU! Hey whats your Api? FU! Hey Why are you using that spec? FU!!!
Its all bullshit and I hate it. I tell my friends and decent people that are willing to socialize what spec I am or what im training and what adventures i've been on. some ass hat that wouldn't give me the time of day shouldnt be able to just right click me and see my shit or visit a site and pre judge my gaming capabilities. So I say fuck the man! and no!!! You can't see my stuff!!!!!!!!!!
*Rant off*
I rarely post here, but after seeing this, I had to. Seriously, why the fuck do you care if someone looks at you? Who cares. Its nothing more than you thinking you are better than everyone else. If you dont like people looking at you, dont play the fucking game and go back to playing hello kitty.
I rarely post here, but after seeing this, I had to. Seriously, why the fuck do you care if someone looks at you? Who cares. Its nothing more than you thinking you are better than everyone else. If you dont like people looking at you, dont play the fucking game and go back to playing hello kitty.
Sounds like you were bred on generic Eastern MMOs with standard level equipment and paper thin background information.
Obviously haven't played any PvP heavy game or equipment heavy game like FFXI where a-lot of high level special groups of people will take your equips seriously. (Or the WoW Raid groups as mentioned previously)
Usually, if your taken into a high level party and your equip is not to par, you will be nagged on by your team-mates or not even put into the party because of it.
Taking it to a more extreme level where equipment can be highly customized. (Say EvE Online). Any ship can be customized with long range or short range equipment. Or not any weapons at all, just support items. Having the ability to see this information at a moments notice in a free PvP area (AKA Low Sec or 0.0 Sec) takes away from the excitement and fairness of the game. If I'm highly weaponized with an item that keeps my opponent from fleeing and I scan an opponent (usually a miner) who doesn't have diddly squat for weaponry or items to block my item to keep him from running. He's just a sitting duck and I know it...No matter what type of ship he is flying.
lets not even get into examples where weapons do special types of damage (Fire, ice, lightning, laser, slashing...ect) and there are armors made to do better against the previously mentioned types of damage... 1+1 = ?
I haven't even gone through background information like completed raids or faction ranking/standings (where it actually makes a difference in gameplay and economy). Why don't I just tell everyone I'm spec'd and armed to do some Player Killing, Backstabbing, or leading into an ambush. If I could see all of my enemy's skills, where is the fun in that? Or find where a certain person is most likely to be due to the faction ratings or recent areas location. All that there would give anyone or a group of people a serious advantage over anyone.
The WoW faction example given before should have been enough of an example.
Personally I think that takes all the fun out of the game along with it's fairness while promoting high level elitism.
I also support not being able to see stats or anything else unless the other person allows it.(More unfair advantage) Anything that should really be of general importance should be left to armor graphics and titles. I think I've gone on far enough. As I have said, Its ok if the player allows it and only if the player allows it. Then they only have themselves to blame if they get curb-stomped or rejected.
Certain things shouldnt be easily seen. Things like faction standing, passed achievements should be totally private because that stuff is used by elitist assholes to refuse people groups and just generally hate on other players with less experience.
Wow. You play with some real jerks. I never heard of such thing happening in 10 years of mmos.
Well....from what I've seen in my last 15 years of online gaming....this sort of behavior became pretty common with WoW. And yes....because so MANY people play it....there are a LOT of "jerks," and they do INDEED do just what he said they do.
You know, for once I agree with the WALLOFTEXT: Rant Edition.
Especially the part about elitists, beyond true.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
I can agree with the OP. I mean if I'm walking down the street and some random a-hole runs up to me and starts checking my shirt tag, he's getting a swift punch in the nose, why should it be different in an MMO?
That's one of the reasons why I quit WoW, it started with that whole Armory thing and grew exponentially. I don't see why my personal achievements need to be displayed for every one to see.
Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers.
Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game.
Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent.
Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on.
They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them.
Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses.
This kind of pissed me off.
The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.
I can agree with the OP. I mean if I'm walking down the street and some random a-hole runs up to me and starts checking my shirt tag, he's getting a swift punch in the nose, why should it be different in an MMO? That's one of the reasons why I quit WoW, it started with that whole Armory thing and grew exponentially. I don't see why my personal achievements need to be displayed for every one to see.
That's what my friends and I used to say about EQ. Someone inspecting you is like going up to someone and yanking on thier shirt tag to read it.
You brought up WoW, so I had to comment. I recently got 7 free days on my WoW account, so I thought I would have some solo fun and revisit some content that I enjoyed.
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
I know that's off-topic.. I just couldn't believe that..
Acidon
PS - maybe that's been going on for a long time.. I don't know. I played WoW in beta and then subbed for a month - then another month here and there over the past 5 years. My WoW experiences amount to very little at this point. But to anyone who was in the beta: do you remember an undead named "Vu"? that was me.
I can agree with the OP. I mean if I'm walking down the street and some random a-hole runs up to me and starts checking my shirt tag, he's getting a swift punch in the nose, why should it be different in an MMO? That's one of the reasons why I quit WoW, it started with that whole Armory thing and grew exponentially. I don't see why my personal achievements need to be displayed for every one to see.
That's what my friends and I used to say about EQ. Someone inspecting you is like going up to someone and yanking on thier shirt tag to read it.
You brought up WoW, so I had to comment. I recently got 7 free days on my WoW account, so I thought I would have some solo fun and revisit some content that I enjoyed.
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
I know that's off-topic.. I just couldn't believe that..
Acidon
PS - maybe that's been going on for a long time.. I don't know. I played WoW in beta and then subbed for a month - then another month here and there over the past 5 years. My WoW experiences amount to very little at this point. But to anyone who was in the beta: do you remember an undead named "Vu"? that was me.
Aye, the whole gear score crap makes me laugh. I have seen people in 245 gear cause horrible wipes in Naxx 10 mans ffs. Gear Score means absolutly nothing about player skill in WoW, and no matter what anyone says its fairly easy to get the best gear in the game seeing as even if you do 25 man hard modes, there will be like 9 people busting ass and the rest will be hardly breaking a sweat, just being there and slong for the ride and possible gear drops. They gain gear even though they were probably dead at the start of the fight, spending the whole time watching TV while the rest of the raid fights on. They can gain gear just by taking a dirt nap and having enough DKP to roll on it. So yeah, they might have a 2100+ GS, but they play about as good as a comatose fall victim.
As for inspections, I hate having people chase me down just so they can clicky on me and see what chest piece im wearing. I hate it even more when the chat window feels the need to tell me about it each and every time someone does it (like when your running through a town and keep getting the message "Joe inspects your gear..." spammed over and over while some lil gnome looking guy chases after you.
Then again you have the people who stand around lowbie areas wearing full epic gear who probably get an ego boost everytime they see that message...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
One of the things about WoW is that a lot of it is about the numbers. The gear, in particular. For example, you need to have a certain defensive level of your gear to be able to successfully tank some raid bosses. Likewise, you need to have a certain hit level to be able to reliably DPs some raid bosses.
One of the things I noticed when I first started doing level 80 content (daily heroics) with my guildies on my main, a hunter, was that because they had raid level gear from running Naxx a bunch, the heroics weren't all that difficult. They could easily carry me with my quest greens and blues. Slowly as I raided more, my gear started moving up past mere 200 level stuff to 220/240 stuff, and I was one of the toons carrying the heroic.
The numbers are that important to what raid content you can do. In fact, the raw numbers of your armor are all that matter for the entire first encounter in Ulduar...the vehicle siege part where you're just driving around in tanks and on choppers.
So gear scores are important for PUGs, it's just the way it works. If you're running around in quest greens others have to carry you in heroics or raids. Once you hit the endgame content, the nature of the game changes. Gear becomes VERY important. Enchantments become important, because every little bit helps at that level.
It's true that you need to know the fights, and you need to have a solid button mashing rotation down, especially if you're DPSing or healing. But gear is enormously important. It's the nature of the beast. If the numbers are not there with your gear, you'll need more heals, you'll be more brittle in the boss fights. Skill only goes so far in WoW if you don't have the numbers in raids or heroics to keep up.
Just changing a couple characters out from different classes with less advanced gear means the difference in the Argent Tournament between a quick dispatch of the Black Knight and a wipe by the other faction's champions. It really is quite amazing how much seemingly tiny mathematical differences make in the way the game plays.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
One of the things about WoW is that a lot of it is about the numbers. The gear, in particular. For example, you need to have a certain defensive level of your gear to be able to successfully tank some raid bosses. Likewise, you need to have a certain hit level to be able to reliably DPs some raid bosses.
One of the things I noticed when I first started doing level 80 content (daily heroics) with my guildies on my main, a hunter, was that because they had raid level gear from running Naxx a bunch, the heroics weren't all that difficult. They could easily carry me with my quest greens and blues. Slowly as I raided more, my gear started moving up past mere 200 level stuff to 220/240 stuff, and I was one of the toons carrying the heroic.
The numbers are that important to what raid content you can do. In fact, the raw numbers of your armor are all that matter for the entire first encounter in Ulduar...the vehicle siege part where you're just driving around in tanks and on choppers.
So gear scores are important for PUGs, it's just the way it works. If you're running around in quest greens others have to carry you in heroics or raids. Once you hit the endgame content, the nature of the game changes. Gear becomes VERY important. Enchantments become important, because every little bit helps at that level.
It's true that you need to know the fights, and you need to have a solid button mashing rotation down, especially if you're DPSing or healing. But gear is enormously important. It's the nature of the beast. If the numbers are not there with your gear, you'll need more heals, you'll be more brittle in the boss fights. Skill only goes so far in WoW if you don't have the numbers in raids or heroics to keep up.
Just changing a couple characters out from different classes with less advanced gear means the difference in the Argent Tournament between a quick dispatch of the Black Knight and a wipe by the other faction's champions. It really is quite amazing how much seemingly tiny mathematical differences make in the way the game plays.
Well you know better than me. I've never really been the end-game sort of player. Been there in some games, but not most.. any not WoW.
While we can agree that some players with a low score can be great, and some players in a high score can be.. not so great, it sounds like overall the score means quite a bit.
From my personal perspective, it struck me real funny. That's a perspective from the outside with no *serious* interest in the game though. I can understand the perspective from someone who players WoW as their main MMO - with respect.
As for inspections, I hate having people chase me down just so they can clicky on me and see what chest piece im wearing. I hate it even more when the chat window feels the need to tell me about it each and every time someone does it (like when your running through a town and keep getting the message "Joe inspects your gear..." spammed over and over while some lil gnome looking guy chases after you. Then again you have the people who stand around lowbie areas wearing full epic gear who probably get an ego boost everytime they see that message...
Lol.. always a gnome in an example like that. And why not, I can totally see that play out in my mind. The same was true in EQ. Often it was the gnomes running around and you could totally picture them as little kids trying to look at people and figure things out. Obviously it wasn't always gnomes.. but those were the most entertaining.
Originally posted by Acidon Well you know better than me. I've never really been the end-game sort of player. Been there in some games, but not most.. any not WoW. While we can agree that some players with a low score can be great, and some players in a high score can be.. not so great, it sounds like overall the score means quite a bit. From my personal perspective, it struck me real funny. That's a perspective from the outside with no *serious* interest in the game though. I can understand the perspective from someone who players WoW as their main MMO - with respect.
Acidon
Oh, I don't want to undercut your idea on this at all. Your point is skillful players in good gear can outperform unskillfill players in even better gear. The thing is, gear is an easily quantifiable measurement of how good a player should be. However, there is a pretty well known phenomenon in WoW that the experience of leveling up to 80 may not help you much in raids, and the game changes dramatically when you're engaged in dealing with raid NPCs, particularly bosses. It's very easy for a hunter or warlock, for example, to use only a fraction of their abilities leveling up, and once they get to raiding they discover that all those extra buttons they didn't have any use for while leveling DO have a use in a raid. So it's easy to aquire the good gear without having that level of skill, because others can carry you due to their skill and gear.
Which is where the "know your fights" and "I want to see your achievements" thing comes into it, because a lot of raid achievements are for beating raids under specific condtions, such as kill raid boss X within 20 minutes of raid boss Y, for example. If you have that achievement, it gives some clue as to the level of skill you've got as part of a raid group.
One of the problems with WoW pre BC was that some of the "ultimate" endgame content, such as the 40 man raids, could be done by 25 skillful players carrying another 15 along for the ride (and the loot) who might have uber gear but not the skills that such gear should reflect, which just underscores both our points, I think.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
It's called saving time. If you're a warrior wearing "spell power" gear or some stupid crap I don't want your dumb ass in my group. And speaking of WoW in general I see so many awful talent builds I want to ask them "are you smoking crack?" sometimes.
But I do agree with the achievment thing. Just because you haven't beat a boss doesn't mean you can't with the right group of people.
Ya I agree I have never liked WOW ARMORY, I have never liked the fact anyone could just simply walk up and inspect my ass and see exactly what I am wearing, I liked being able to hide my stuff from others, because now Everyone in WOW Judges people based on Achivements, OR My Character doing 100 Less damage than someone elses. I just cant enjoy World OF Warcraft anymore. The Raiding Taking 4 Hours Plus Real Life Hours, I dont have the time to put into it as well, I mean That is just insane. SO I stick away from those MMo's now.
"invasion of privacy in mmos." lmao THIS says it all. LMAO .. you OWN.. get that WORD.. OWN NOTHING.. you pay to play .. not to OWN.. OMG I laughed..
Thanks this was great.. OOOH you really need to SEND this info to the DEVS.. of EVERY MMO you can think of.. REALLY I bet they would LOVE to sorry HAHA hear this..
I dont believe in Copyrights ON Music, OR SOFTWARE, OF ANY KIND. IF I buy something, and They dont tell me I have to accept an agreement before purchasing it, I will just close my eyes and click buttons not knowing any agreement was ever there.
If these companies dont like it well too bad, Dont offer Music to the public then try to say, OMG Dude with a cellphone cant record and youtube, Then I cant record it on my own pc lol.
Second Why Do Companies Give Full Copy OF Software and say heres you a full copy only try and use on a 30 day basis, But we all try to crack it until we find something that works such as run as date.
And FOR MMO, You dont own the data, But you own the content they sell you, as you didnt agree to it before purchasing it, thats just my belief, as A good person can just pop the disk in, and use an alternate installer to install it never agreeing to anything.
Try calling a company sometime and saying, I dont agree to your TERMS OF SERVICE. See if they will actually really gladly refund you. Some will some wont.
Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers. Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game. Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent. Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on. They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them. Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses. This kind of pissed me off.
The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.
Well, Thanks for reading.
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
Comments
Very much agree with OP. Only information you get from another player should be the visuals of the avatar, nothing else. Same with mobs if you ask me.
Just to be certain, we are talking about video games, right? Because, it's sort of scary.
Personally I thought part of the allure for playing MMO's was to show-case what you've acquired and achieved, whether it be alone or grouping...
With that said, I'm all for them removing the class description for our characters from our names/paper dolls etc. I don't feel a player should be able to hover their cursor over my avatar and see what I am...... With the exception, if maybe characters had a lore skill they could work on that would allow them to hover over a characters avatar to discern what class they are.
Being able to see a good chunk of information on characters is fine imo.
I dunno, I've rarely had an issue with people being able to see my stuff. Like Emeraq said, it's part of the allure of MMORPGs for people to be vain about their characters.
Jerks are jerks and people are going to be ignorant either way. To be honest, freely available information helps players be less ignorant.
But yeah...I'll trade you not knowing Spec/Gear of characters if you'll trade me the ability to see the DPS they had in their last few instance runs
Certain types of information are more useful than others.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Since I don't see this going away any time soon, I'd like an option to tell the game NOT to publish my info on any of their web sites and have the option to not allow people to inspect me. I tend to play games my way, and part of the fun for me is having people guess as to what I'm doing and maintain the mystery of it all.
I really don't want others to know why I do certain things. Maybe I've found a different approach to a situation that works just as well as other more "acceptable" ones and often times all the elitist pricks will bitch and moan because their way is "better". Last thing I want is others inspecting me then going off and copying me, or bitching me out because I'm not following some norm.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I rarely post here, but after seeing this, I had to. Seriously, why the fuck do you care if someone looks at you? Who cares. Its nothing more than you thinking you are better than everyone else. If you dont like people looking at you, dont play the fucking game and go back to playing hello kitty.
Sounds like you were bred on generic Eastern MMOs with standard level equipment and paper thin background information.
Obviously haven't played any PvP heavy game or equipment heavy game like FFXI where a-lot of high level special groups of people will take your equips seriously. (Or the WoW Raid groups as mentioned previously)
Usually, if your taken into a high level party and your equip is not to par, you will be nagged on by your team-mates or not even put into the party because of it.
Taking it to a more extreme level where equipment can be highly customized. (Say EvE Online). Any ship can be customized with long range or short range equipment. Or not any weapons at all, just support items. Having the ability to see this information at a moments notice in a free PvP area (AKA Low Sec or 0.0 Sec) takes away from the excitement and fairness of the game. If I'm highly weaponized with an item that keeps my opponent from fleeing and I scan an opponent (usually a miner) who doesn't have diddly squat for weaponry or items to block my item to keep him from running. He's just a sitting duck and I know it...No matter what type of ship he is flying.
lets not even get into examples where weapons do special types of damage (Fire, ice, lightning, laser, slashing...ect) and there are armors made to do better against the previously mentioned types of damage... 1+1 = ?
I haven't even gone through background information like completed raids or faction ranking/standings (where it actually makes a difference in gameplay and economy). Why don't I just tell everyone I'm spec'd and armed to do some Player Killing, Backstabbing, or leading into an ambush. If I could see all of my enemy's skills, where is the fun in that? Or find where a certain person is most likely to be due to the faction ratings or recent areas location. All that there would give anyone or a group of people a serious advantage over anyone.
The WoW faction example given before should have been enough of an example.
Personally I think that takes all the fun out of the game along with it's fairness while promoting high level elitism.
I also support not being able to see stats or anything else unless the other person allows it.(More unfair advantage) Anything that should really be of general importance should be left to armor graphics and titles. I think I've gone on far enough. As I have said, Its ok if the player allows it and only if the player allows it. Then they only have themselves to blame if they get curb-stomped or rejected.
Wow. You play with some real jerks. I never heard of such thing happening in 10 years of mmos.
Well....from what I've seen in my last 15 years of online gaming....this sort of behavior became pretty common with WoW. And yes....because so MANY people play it....there are a LOT of "jerks," and they do INDEED do just what he said they do.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You know, for once I agree with the WALLOFTEXT: Rant Edition.
Especially the part about elitists, beyond true.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
I can agree with the OP. I mean if I'm walking down the street and some random a-hole runs up to me and starts checking my shirt tag, he's getting a swift punch in the nose, why should it be different in an MMO?
That's one of the reasons why I quit WoW, it started with that whole Armory thing and grew exponentially. I don't see why my personal achievements need to be displayed for every one to see.
Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers.
Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game.
Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent.
Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on.
They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them.
Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses.
This kind of pissed me off.
The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.
Well, Thanks for reading.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
That's what my friends and I used to say about EQ. Someone inspecting you is like going up to someone and yanking on thier shirt tag to read it.
You brought up WoW, so I had to comment. I recently got 7 free days on my WoW account, so I thought I would have some solo fun and revisit some content that I enjoyed.
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
I know that's off-topic.. I just couldn't believe that..
Acidon
PS - maybe that's been going on for a long time.. I don't know. I played WoW in beta and then subbed for a month - then another month here and there over the past 5 years. My WoW experiences amount to very little at this point. But to anyone who was in the beta: do you remember an undead named "Vu"? that was me.
That's what my friends and I used to say about EQ. Someone inspecting you is like going up to someone and yanking on thier shirt tag to read it.
You brought up WoW, so I had to comment. I recently got 7 free days on my WoW account, so I thought I would have some solo fun and revisit some content that I enjoyed.
Anyway - I was reading random chat and *everyone* advertising for a group wanted you to send them your "gear score". I was like "lol".. that's what this game has come to? Let me tell you all something. GS != Player Skill. Maybe good enough gear in WoW makes up for player skill.. I don't know. If so, then I'll shut up (which i'll do anyway, but whatever).
I know that's off-topic.. I just couldn't believe that..
Acidon
PS - maybe that's been going on for a long time.. I don't know. I played WoW in beta and then subbed for a month - then another month here and there over the past 5 years. My WoW experiences amount to very little at this point. But to anyone who was in the beta: do you remember an undead named "Vu"? that was me.
Aye, the whole gear score crap makes me laugh. I have seen people in 245 gear cause horrible wipes in Naxx 10 mans ffs. Gear Score means absolutly nothing about player skill in WoW, and no matter what anyone says its fairly easy to get the best gear in the game seeing as even if you do 25 man hard modes, there will be like 9 people busting ass and the rest will be hardly breaking a sweat, just being there and slong for the ride and possible gear drops. They gain gear even though they were probably dead at the start of the fight, spending the whole time watching TV while the rest of the raid fights on. They can gain gear just by taking a dirt nap and having enough DKP to roll on it. So yeah, they might have a 2100+ GS, but they play about as good as a comatose fall victim.
As for inspections, I hate having people chase me down just so they can clicky on me and see what chest piece im wearing. I hate it even more when the chat window feels the need to tell me about it each and every time someone does it (like when your running through a town and keep getting the message "Joe inspects your gear..." spammed over and over while some lil gnome looking guy chases after you.
Then again you have the people who stand around lowbie areas wearing full epic gear who probably get an ego boost everytime they see that message...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
One of the things about WoW is that a lot of it is about the numbers. The gear, in particular. For example, you need to have a certain defensive level of your gear to be able to successfully tank some raid bosses. Likewise, you need to have a certain hit level to be able to reliably DPs some raid bosses.
One of the things I noticed when I first started doing level 80 content (daily heroics) with my guildies on my main, a hunter, was that because they had raid level gear from running Naxx a bunch, the heroics weren't all that difficult. They could easily carry me with my quest greens and blues. Slowly as I raided more, my gear started moving up past mere 200 level stuff to 220/240 stuff, and I was one of the toons carrying the heroic.
The numbers are that important to what raid content you can do. In fact, the raw numbers of your armor are all that matter for the entire first encounter in Ulduar...the vehicle siege part where you're just driving around in tanks and on choppers.
So gear scores are important for PUGs, it's just the way it works. If you're running around in quest greens others have to carry you in heroics or raids. Once you hit the endgame content, the nature of the game changes. Gear becomes VERY important. Enchantments become important, because every little bit helps at that level.
It's true that you need to know the fights, and you need to have a solid button mashing rotation down, especially if you're DPSing or healing. But gear is enormously important. It's the nature of the beast. If the numbers are not there with your gear, you'll need more heals, you'll be more brittle in the boss fights. Skill only goes so far in WoW if you don't have the numbers in raids or heroics to keep up.
Just changing a couple characters out from different classes with less advanced gear means the difference in the Argent Tournament between a quick dispatch of the Black Knight and a wipe by the other faction's champions. It really is quite amazing how much seemingly tiny mathematical differences make in the way the game plays.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
One of the things about WoW is that a lot of it is about the numbers. The gear, in particular. For example, you need to have a certain defensive level of your gear to be able to successfully tank some raid bosses. Likewise, you need to have a certain hit level to be able to reliably DPs some raid bosses.
One of the things I noticed when I first started doing level 80 content (daily heroics) with my guildies on my main, a hunter, was that because they had raid level gear from running Naxx a bunch, the heroics weren't all that difficult. They could easily carry me with my quest greens and blues. Slowly as I raided more, my gear started moving up past mere 200 level stuff to 220/240 stuff, and I was one of the toons carrying the heroic.
The numbers are that important to what raid content you can do. In fact, the raw numbers of your armor are all that matter for the entire first encounter in Ulduar...the vehicle siege part where you're just driving around in tanks and on choppers.
So gear scores are important for PUGs, it's just the way it works. If you're running around in quest greens others have to carry you in heroics or raids. Once you hit the endgame content, the nature of the game changes. Gear becomes VERY important. Enchantments become important, because every little bit helps at that level.
It's true that you need to know the fights, and you need to have a solid button mashing rotation down, especially if you're DPSing or healing. But gear is enormously important. It's the nature of the beast. If the numbers are not there with your gear, you'll need more heals, you'll be more brittle in the boss fights. Skill only goes so far in WoW if you don't have the numbers in raids or heroics to keep up.
Just changing a couple characters out from different classes with less advanced gear means the difference in the Argent Tournament between a quick dispatch of the Black Knight and a wipe by the other faction's champions. It really is quite amazing how much seemingly tiny mathematical differences make in the way the game plays.
Well you know better than me. I've never really been the end-game sort of player. Been there in some games, but not most.. any not WoW.
While we can agree that some players with a low score can be great, and some players in a high score can be.. not so great, it sounds like overall the score means quite a bit.
From my personal perspective, it struck me real funny. That's a perspective from the outside with no *serious* interest in the game though. I can understand the perspective from someone who players WoW as their main MMO - with respect.
Acidon
Lol.. always a gnome in an example like that. And why not, I can totally see that play out in my mind. The same was true in EQ. Often it was the gnomes running around and you could totally picture them as little kids trying to look at people and figure things out.
Obviously it wasn't always gnomes.. but those were the most entertaining.
hehe gnomes..
Acidon
Oh, I don't want to undercut your idea on this at all. Your point is skillful players in good gear can outperform unskillfill players in even better gear. The thing is, gear is an easily quantifiable measurement of how good a player should be. However, there is a pretty well known phenomenon in WoW that the experience of leveling up to 80 may not help you much in raids, and the game changes dramatically when you're engaged in dealing with raid NPCs, particularly bosses. It's very easy for a hunter or warlock, for example, to use only a fraction of their abilities leveling up, and once they get to raiding they discover that all those extra buttons they didn't have any use for while leveling DO have a use in a raid. So it's easy to aquire the good gear without having that level of skill, because others can carry you due to their skill and gear.
Which is where the "know your fights" and "I want to see your achievements" thing comes into it, because a lot of raid achievements are for beating raids under specific condtions, such as kill raid boss X within 20 minutes of raid boss Y, for example. If you have that achievement, it gives some clue as to the level of skill you've got as part of a raid group.
One of the problems with WoW pre BC was that some of the "ultimate" endgame content, such as the 40 man raids, could be done by 25 skillful players carrying another 15 along for the ride (and the loot) who might have uber gear but not the skills that such gear should reflect, which just underscores both our points, I think.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
It's called saving time. If you're a warrior wearing "spell power" gear or some stupid crap I don't want your dumb ass in my group. And speaking of WoW in general I see so many awful talent builds I want to ask them "are you smoking crack?" sometimes.
But I do agree with the achievment thing. Just because you haven't beat a boss doesn't mean you can't with the right group of people.
there should be an option to not have your shit posted on armory.
I honestly don't care who sees my stuff. Or knows what I have. My concern about MMO privacy ranks very low in my life.
Ya I agree I have never liked WOW ARMORY, I have never liked the fact anyone could just simply walk up and inspect my ass and see exactly what I am wearing, I liked being able to hide my stuff from others, because now Everyone in WOW Judges people based on Achivements, OR My Character doing 100 Less damage than someone elses. I just cant enjoy World OF Warcraft anymore. The Raiding Taking 4 Hours Plus Real Life Hours, I dont have the time to put into it as well, I mean That is just insane. SO I stick away from those MMo's now.
They actually "score" gear now? I was waiting for that cesspool (WoW) to crap out yet another bullshit elitist raid metric.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
"invasion of privacy in mmos." lmao THIS says it all. LMAO .. you OWN.. get that WORD.. OWN NOTHING.. you pay to play .. not to OWN.. OMG I laughed..
Thanks this was great.. OOOH you really need to SEND this info to the DEVS.. of EVERY MMO you can think of.. REALLY I bet they would LOVE to sorry HAHA hear this..
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT YO !
I dont believe in Copyrights ON Music, OR SOFTWARE, OF ANY KIND. IF I buy something, and They dont tell me I have to accept an agreement before purchasing it, I will just close my eyes and click buttons not knowing any agreement was ever there.
If these companies dont like it well too bad, Dont offer Music to the public then try to say, OMG Dude with a cellphone cant record and youtube, Then I cant record it on my own pc lol.
Second Why Do Companies Give Full Copy OF Software and say heres you a full copy only try and use on a 30 day basis, But we all try to crack it until we find something that works such as run as date.
And FOR MMO, You dont own the data, But you own the content they sell you, as you didnt agree to it before purchasing it, thats just my belief, as A good person can just pop the disk in, and use an alternate installer to install it never agreeing to anything.
Try calling a company sometime and saying, I dont agree to your TERMS OF SERVICE. See if they will actually really gladly refund you. Some will some wont.
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol