Page 4 rocks, good info. Page 2 and 3 suck except for the lvl 30+ clarification.
This skirmish stuff sounds awesome. I don't find the wide open zones in any MMO to ever be very interesting. If you don't limit my freedom and give me an objective you don't have a carefully crafted exciting adventure waiting for me.
Wide open zones are the sandbox part of MMO's, good for messing around in, leveling up, bad for serious fun. Make them up of nothing but sandbox stuff and it gets boring.
People who have played them, are talking. Please read OP and thread title.
This is maybe your 8th post in this thread. Single-sentenced. That has nothing to do with skirmishes. I asked why would community prefer instanced small heavily scripted zones over a single large open zone with exploration full of deeds etc.
What I like about the skirmishes is that its more to do. Questing and grinding deeds is fine but there are times I want to do something else and the skirmishes are fun. There are plenty of quests to do and deeds to complete the way things were before Mirkwood. I see nothing wrong with more/different things to do.
It *is* multi-user content, and best of all it's scalable by group size. Something for soloers, and something for those who like to group. There's more to content than just land mass. The trick is to integrate the Skirmishes with the other content, which they've done by making some of them unlockable only by doing the book quests. And the best gear still only comes from the more traditional content. Everyone I've talked to has found the Skirmishes to be fun. Fun is good, IMO. You are of course entitled to your dissenting opinion, but you are the one who said you couldn't understand why people like Skirmishes.
Multi-user content I kinda meant massive in scale. That it can hold and entertain hundreds of people at the same time on the same place (like a zone).
There is no doubt people have fun with skirmishes at the moment. On the other hand, it's been out for 2 days. We'll see how people's opinion will change over time. I do think a large open zone with deeds, quests would bring more content and more "fun" over time.
At the moment the world kinda feels very linear, mainly because the space between zones is not filled up. Forochel+Angmar, lonelands with north downs, ered luin with shire, the space between shire, evendim and north downs ... etc. These all could be filled up with a camp or two, new quests, even a new instance. I'm sure the man hours would be equal to creating a whole new scripted system of skirmishers. I'm afraid, the whole system was basically mainly to serve the only purpose - marketing trick to say Lotro brings new, cool, awesome, groundbreaking feature. We'll see over time I guess.
I can sort of see your point.
sort of what happened with Lineage 2 and the Catacombs/Necropoli (though not instanced) or Warhammer and the scenarios.
I finally got a chance to log into LOTRO today but it was only 20 minutes before they brought the servers down for a hot fix.
There were barely any players around in 21st hall or Lothlorien. My first thought was that the players must have logged as announcments for the server downtime were being broadcast on a regular basis.
My second thought was that I wondered if many players were either in the new content or actually in the skirmishes. Which then brought me the sort of chilling thought that, because of the way the rewards are being handled, skirmishes allow for a very fast, fun way to get these reward coins.
It's sort of a fine line that a developer has to walk.
Such new content can easily draw players away from the larger game world. this is, to my thinking, not necessarily bad as mmo's seem to border on the absurd when you have lots of players running to and fro doing all sorts of things that tend to add to the artificiality of the world. Fighting a monster only to have players talking right next to you does tend to bring one out of the world idea. Same with checking your mail only to have a player jumping up and down on the mailbox.
Yet, these worlds need to have some life and players do add that. Drawing them into instanced spaces might drain the world of that life.
I am all for instanced content because quite frankly it is the best way to further story lines or have more interesting events but at the same time the danger is that everyone will be entrenched in these skirmishes and the rest of the world might seem like a ghost town.
Sort of like how poeple have complained about the player made missions in the City of Heroes/Villains games.
I suppose only time will tell.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Something I would love to see would be where once you've gotten through Moria you'd find that some of the earlier zones have changed for your character. For example, the season would be moved toward winter and the various enemy camps would have grown or changed with whole new quests. This would have the effect of bringing people back to older zones to continue the story of protecting them while the Fellowship does their thing. It fits from a story perspective (since we already know that eventually the Shire will be taken over by Sharky/Saruman) and it would allow new content to be added without having to create whole new zones. It would also make the world feel more dynamic, which is something that MMO's tend to lack.
Of course the original versions would remain for new players. And old players could get back to those versions using reflecting pools, so that they could help lower level friends.
But that's all off the topic of this thread. To answer the OP I am also one of those who loves the skirmish system to the point of not having even crossed the river into Mirkwood yet. I'm with the majority of the posters in this thread: Sieges represent a new form of gameplay which complements the existing stuff. It's good to have choices and variety! I wouldn't want a steady diet of skirmishes, but I love the option to jump into one whenever the mood strikes.
I can sort of see your point. sort of what happened with Lineage 2 and the Catacombs/Necropoli (though not instanced) or Warhammer and the scenarios. I finally got a chance to log into LOTRO today but it was only 20 minutes before they brought the servers down for a hot fix. There were barely any players around in 21st hall or Lothlorien. My first thought was that the players must have logged as announcments for the server downtime were being broadcast on a regular basis. My second thought was that I wondered if many players were either in the new content or actually in the skirmishes. Which then brought me the sort of chilling thought that, because of the way the rewards are being handled, skirmishes allow for a very fast, fun way to get these reward coins. It's sort of a fine line that a developer has to walk. Such new content can easily draw players away from the larger game world. this is, to my thinking, not necessarily bad as mmo's seem to border on the absurd when you have lots of players running to and fro doing all sorts of things that tend to add to the artificiality of the world. Fighting a monster only to have players talking right next to you does tend to bring one out of the world idea. Same with checking your mail only to have a player jumping up and down on the mailbox. Yet, these worlds to need to have some life and players do add that. Drawing them into instanced spaces might drain the world of that life. I am all for instanced content because quite frankly it is the best way to further story lines or have more interesting events but at the same time the danger is that everyone will be entrenched in these skirmishes and the rest of the world might seem like a ghost town. Sort of like how poeple have complained about the player made missions in the City of Heroes/Villains games. I suppose only time will tell.
Good point! But adding new zone have the same effect on old zones, so 21st and Loth would become empty anyway. The benefit atleast not at launch is that the new zone wont be as crowded since alot of people will be running instances instead.
But Turbine have to be carefull to not give to good rewards from the skirmishes so eveyone will be stuck in thoose all the time. Since I enjoy instances more than running around doing boring quests in the world, I can see myself spening alot time in them. But instead of just standing in 21st spamming emotes and waiting for something to happen you can now just jump in a skirmish while waiting.
I think skirmishes bring more life to the world since old places are being used again and we have a reason to revisit places and not just moving in a linear way through the world. It also creates a feeling that the War of the ring is drawing close and that the entire middle earth is being effected and that we must protect it.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
... I am all for instanced content because quite frankly it is the best way to further story lines or have more interesting events but at the same time the danger is that everyone will be entrenched in these skirmishes and the rest of the world might seem like a ghost town....
I suppose only time will tell.
I do think the story in this genre generally is very poor even in compare to single player games (rather not mentioning books). Im used to read a lot of books, and in a way I do find the stories in MMORPG very weak. While Lotro is a bit above the average in the genre, 99% of the quest texts (including the book chain line) is poorly written and tend to be very inconsistent. It is understandable, you can't tell a good tale in a mmorpg with thousands of players. Especially, if you decide to have thousands of quests written in a short window with no additional interaction.
Aside from that, I do not think skirmishes are there to promote story-telling in the game. It feels much more like an instanced scripted battlefield where you jump whenever you wish and get an instant reward (eventho you need to accumulate the reward to recieve an actual item).
I believe this should be in game - in open zones instead of instances. Why didn't they make the scripted events in public areas occuring either randomly or at certain time? Turbine went the easier route and just made it all instanced - which I believe, is never a good thing for the game.
I do think the story in this genre generally is very poor even in compare to single player games (rather not mentioning books). Im used to read a lot of books, and in a way I do find the stories in MMORPG very weak. While Lotro is a bit above the average in the genre, 99% of the quest texts (including the book chain line) is poorly written and tend to be very inconsistent. It is understandable, you can't tell a good tale in a mmorpg with thousands of players. Especially, if you decide to have thousands of quests written in a short window with no additional interaction. Aside from that, I do not think skirmishes are there to promote story-telling in the game. It feels much more like an instanced scripted battlefield where you jump whenever you wish and get an instant reward (eventho you need to accumulate the reward to recieve an actual item). I believe this should be in game - in open zones instead of instances. Why didn't they make the scripted events in public areas occuring either randomly or at certain time? Turbine went the easier route and just made it all instanced - which I believe, is never a good thing for the game.
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes? On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
To elaborate. I do think the world is currently small and very linear. I do think they should spend man hours rather to join together pieces of the map between the existing zones (north downs+lone lands, shire+ered luin, shire+evendim+north downs, forochel+angmar, misty+angmar+trollshaws)than on instanced content. And for the scripted content, I think they should use the existing public areas and not place everything into an instanced separated area.
I would surely continue with my subscription if things would go the pace as they went between SoA-MoM era. Three large open areas (evendim, forochel, eregion)+additions to already existing zones(misty, trollshaws, player housing areas), but since MoM it all kinda stopped. Even Mirkwood is smaller than expected. Yes, it would be great if they continued the trend, but they are did not and it doesn't seem they are gonna be picking up the pace again. We'll see, I hope I'm just a bad prophet.
a) the skirmishes system you have now b) a whole new end-game zone
The skirmishes system, without a doubt. It's available for all levels from 30, not just the endgame levels, it offers variety in terms of content and rewards, and is fully scaleable for both the number of players and the difficulty level. It can also be added to and varied very easily.
One more zone is just anticipating a future addition, the skirmishes system introduces a while new concept to the game which can also be reflected in future additions.
To elaborate. I do think the world is currently small and very linear. I do think they should spend man hours rather to join together pieces of the map between the existing zones (north downs+lone lands, shire+ered luin, shire+evendim+north downs, forochel+angmar, misty+angmar+trollshaws)than on instanced content. And for the scripted content, I think they should use the existing public areas and not place everything into an instanced separated area. I would surely continue with my subscription if things would go the pace as they went between SoA-MoM era. Three large open areas (evendim, forochel, eregion)+additions to already existing zones(misty, trollshaws, player housing areas), but since MoM it all kinda stopped. Even Mirkwood is smaller than expected. Yes, it would be great if they continued the trend, but they are did not and it doesn't seem they are gonna be picking up the pace again. We'll see, I hope I'm just a bad prophet.
You didn't have to elabortate I understood. Just didnt see the problem as its so small amount of content in the big picture. But yes, the the development pace has gone down since MoM, but that doesnt mean we cant enjoy the Skirmishes for what it is; 11 or 12 solo/small group/group/raid semi-random adventures, that can be done whenever, whereever and by whoever. I fail to see the negatives here...
As unpopular as it may be, I find myself in agreement with Thillian.
I've played the skirmishes, and I found them to be fun, though not amazing like most people here seem to think of them. But like Thillian, I would have much rather seen the effort that was put in to Skirmishes bringing more of the world to life. Wandering around Middle-earth is my favorite aspect of this game, and being shoved into my own little nook (skirmish) is fun, it's not what I'm searching for in this game.
In addition, I've been horribly, horribly disappointed with the size of Mirkwood. A full expansion, and we're given an area smaller than Evendim (which was a free content update)? That strikes me as an act of desperation on Turbine's part. I really feel that they were in dire need of cash, and that alone was the reason that we had to pay for this update (granted, a large number of us didn't directly pay, but we paid with sub-counts and a bonus pack).
The one thing that does make me happy is that I'm sure that in the future, they should be able to give us some really fun battles using this system. Think Gondor, Helm's Deep, and the Black Gate. ^.^
As unpopular as it may be, I find myself in agreement with Thillian.
I've played the skirmishes, and I found them to be fun, though not amazing like most people here seem to think of them. But like Thillian, I would have much rather seen the effort that was put in to Skirmishes bringing more of the world to life. Wandering around Middle-earth is my favorite aspect of this game, and being shoved into my own little nook (skirmish) is fun, it's not what I'm searching for in this game.
In addition, I've been horribly, horribly disappointed with the size of Mirkwood. A full expansion, and we're given an area smaller than Evendim (which was a free content update)? That strikes me as an act of desperation on Turbine's part. I really feel that they were in dire need of cash, and that alone was the reason that we had to pay for this update (granted, a large number of us didn't directly pay, but we paid with sub-counts and a bonus pack).
The one thing that does make me happy is that I'm sure that in the future, they should be able to give us some really fun battles using this system. Think Gondor, Helm's Deep, and the Black Gate. ^.^
I've long believed that the skirmish system is going to prove to be key to their plans for Helm's Deep and the like going forward. Some of those battles have to be truly epic, and this system would be very useful for accomplishing that. Which of course means that it makes sense for them to implement the feature now so that it can be refined and polished in time for the next expansion -- one that will without doubt be Riders of Rohan.
Also, from a story point of view it really does make more sense for the game to send us into Mirkwood now rather than immediately following the Fellowship. There's no way that the story would make sense to have us going south right now. That leaves north to the Gladden Fields, west and back into Moria (which nobody wants) or east into southern Mirkwood (which is what we got).
Is Mirkwood a bit small? Without doubt. Fortunately, they can easily add Gladden Fields in an update sometime before the next expansion. And as for the argument that it would have been better for them to put all their time into a new zone rather than the skirmish system, well that's a rather short sighted view. How much time do you spend in Eregion these days? Forochel? Evendim? No matter how well done a particular zone might be, it will have a fairly short lifespan. If it's a mid-level zone then it only benefits alts. If it's an end zone, everyone would soon tear through the content and then be left complaining that there's nothing to do. Moria proved that. As did the Lothlorien update that came later. New zones are good and important to the game, but the skirmish system is something that they can continuously refine and expand upon to provide fun content for all levels. Content that won't become outdated as quickly as a new zone would. Skirmishes alone would have been a bad expansion. But skirmishes combined with a new zone and new raids like they gave us is a good balance. And remember: they only charged half price for this expansion to begin with. They've never claimed it was a full expansion, but rather a mini-expansion. And they charged accordingly.
Am I the only one meaning to go to Mirkwood, but can't because I'm hooked on skirmishes? It's instantly funa nd there seems to be a lot of depth to the system. My captain has a rank 10 warrior, my burg has a low level bannerguard, and my champ has a rank 5ish herbalist. These seem to be good matches so far. My captain can do tier 2s pretty well, but I got owned trying a tier 3 skirmish... Need to buff up my soldier more!
Skirmishes are instanced scaleable areas with specific objective. I see no reason why the current playerbase would enjoy such a feature. It drags players off from the public zones into separated instanced spaces. It's step away from a multi massive concept into arcade instanced rooms with attractions.
Absolutely the worst criticism ever. Criticizing an instance because.... Wait for it... It's an instance! Sorry man but if you want players to experience content in a controlled environment, it's going to be instanced. It's just the way MMOs work.
Very well said. and also Helms Deep thing is another aspect . The majority has spoken, Skirmishes are AWESOME
I do not really mind to have a minority opinion. Altho it is quite weird from you to say you are the majority in the game, you are just a majority on this thread like 5 : 2.
Someone asked me how much time I spent in Forochel or Eregion.. ? I spent at least 1-2 hundred of in game hours in each of these zones. And I keep visiting them all regularly just to re-encounter the ambience in the background (Forochel in this case)
Someone else above said, that instanced space is there to encounter more story. I disagree. They can implement story scripted events in open public zones. There is a technology out there already that allows you to see the world a bit differently than someone else next to you, eventho being part of the same world. It just requires more work. Skirmishes are basically the easiest solution to drag players off from public zones and community hubs into small instanced scripted driven zones. I enjoyed skirmishes a couple of times, but as with every instanced space, I got tired of it and then found myself running around Evendim while it rained.
I still believe, most of the lotro players are lore fans rather than the gameplay fans. I do believe they rather want to see the middle earth representation in beatiful 3d world. They all know the story already. I might be totally wrong here tho, and it really is just me.
What I like about the skirmishes is that its more to do. Questing and grinding deeds is fine but there are times I want to do something else and the skirmishes are fun. There are plenty of quests to do and deeds to complete the way things were before Mirkwood. I see nothing wrong with more/different things to do.
Very well put, The reason LoTRO keeps me as a fan is there seems to be endless things to do ingame and it has something for almost every play style.
As far as the skirmish system I cannot see where there is anything not to like about it, as Zobie columbus put it in his developer diary:
My favorite part of the entire system! No joke. Skirmishes can be scaled to the group size and level of the group playing them, as well as having a difficulty toggle which will increase the rewards from the Skirmish. If this sounds great, it's because it is! However, allow me to fill in some of the details.
First, each scaling axis (level, size, difficulty) is set only when the Skirmish is created. They will not change during playthrough. For groups, the leader of the fellowship will decide what values to select.
Second, in the interests of balance we have only implemented solo, small fellowship, fellowship, and 12 man raid sizes for Skirmishes. This means when you select size, you can only select 1, 3, 6 or 12. At launch, all skirmishes can be played as 1, 3 and 6 man versions. Roughly half of them can also be run as 12-man raids. We will be unlocking the remaining 12-man versions in the future.
Third, a combination of the two above limitations means that if you set up a small fellowship (3 player) Skirmish and try to invite a 4th member, they will be unable to join. Simply exit the Skirmish, and re-create a fellowship (6 player) Skirmish. Playing with less than the maximum number of players is possible, though a bit more difficult.
So there are some restrictions, but we allow a significant amount of customization to create the kind of experience you want. My favorite part of all this is the difficulty scale. If a particular Skirmish seems too easy, simply step up the difficulty and you will find yourself challenged again, and receive more rewards!
I do think the story in this genre generally is very poor even in compare to single player games (rather not mentioning books). Im used to read a lot of books, and in a way I do find the stories in MMORPG very weak. While Lotro is a bit above the average in the genre, 99% of the quest texts (including the book chain line) is poorly written and tend to be very inconsistent. It is understandable, you can't tell a good tale in a mmorpg with thousands of players. Especially, if you decide to have thousands of quests written in a short window with no additional interaction. Aside from that, I do not think skirmishes are there to promote story-telling in the game. It feels much more like an instanced scripted battlefield where you jump whenever you wish and get an instant reward (eventho you need to accumulate the reward to recieve an actual item). I believe this should be in game - in open zones instead of instances. Why didn't they make the scripted events in public areas occuring either randomly or at certain time? Turbine went the easier route and just made it all instanced - which I believe, is never a good thing for the game.
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
Ok, after playing for far to long last night, Thillian is extremely over simplifying skirmishes, and, due to not having played them at all, has zero understanding of just how fun, and how much of a challenge they can be and how much of a scope the sum of the changes and additions to the game this expansion brings. This isn't his fault, he hasn't played them, and can only speculate. However, reading that post you responded too.
He is incredibly wrong about the scope, function, fun, and is very much downplaying just about every aspect of this expansion. Without playing it.
I think anyone who has played them, and has been playing with the varying settings you can use, will understand why i say this about his post, especially the "Instant rewards" part. From the full group skirmishes I played last night, they are anything but instant, and anything but easy. They are extremely fun and challenging.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I do think the story in this genre generally is very poor even in compare to single player games (rather not mentioning books). Im used to read a lot of books, and in a way I do find the stories in MMORPG very weak. While Lotro is a bit above the average in the genre, 99% of the quest texts (including the book chain line) is poorly written and tend to be very inconsistent. It is understandable, you can't tell a good tale in a mmorpg with thousands of players. Especially, if you decide to have thousands of quests written in a short window with no additional interaction. Aside from that, I do not think skirmishes are there to promote story-telling in the game. It feels much more like an instanced scripted battlefield where you jump whenever you wish and get an instant reward (eventho you need to accumulate the reward to recieve an actual item). I believe this should be in game - in open zones instead of instances. Why didn't they make the scripted events in public areas occuring either randomly or at certain time? Turbine went the easier route and just made it all instanced - which I believe, is never a good thing for the game.
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
Ok, after playing for far to long last night, Thillian is extremely over simplifying skirmishes, and, due to not having played them at all, has zero understanding of just how fun, and how much of a challenge they can be and how much of a scope the sum of the changes and additions to the game this expansion brings. This isn't his fault, he hasn't played them, and can only speculate. However, reading that post you responded too.
He is incredibly wrong about the scope, function, fun, and is very much downplaying just about every aspect of this expansion. Without playing it.
I think anyone who has played them, and has been playing with the varying settings you can use, will understand why i say this about his post, especially the "Instant rewards" part. From the full group skirmishes I played last night, they are anything but instant, and anything but easy. They are extremely fun and challenging.
PLain and simple, skirmishes rock! They are fun and challenging and you can set your level of challenge for them. I have only done a couple solo skirmishes and I already think they are total fun! I can only imagine that the group skirmishes are even more fun. Really, one should TRY them before questioning them, because it just makes you sound like a troll Thillian.
This is the best addition to an Mmo ever ... I cant stop playing them , its like a whole new game within a game and I dont think I'll be going to Mirkwood just yet.
I've even just leveled from 55 to 56 just doing Skirmishes !
Mirkwood is quite a small zone for a paid expansion. People have been waiting for a year, and now comes a zone, which is even smaller than Forochel or Evendim - that was added for free before.
a) the skirmishes system you have now b) a whole new end-game zone.
a), the skirmishes, no question about it. Adding another zone is the lazy way to make an expansion, that we've seen so many times in so many games. Adding a genuinely new idea to the game is much much more interesting than just knocking up another map.
a) the skirmishes system you have now b) a whole new end-game zone.
B. If I want to play mini-games, I go play Wii with friends. Skirmishes are nothing more than instances with a pet system added (and yes, I HAVE played them, all save for the two that require the book chapters to unlock).
I've spent a signifcant amount of time in every zone in the game. They have far more replay value for me (everyone is different in this regard) that the diversion system they gave us.
Comments
Page 4 rocks, good info. Page 2 and 3 suck except for the lvl 30+ clarification.
This skirmish stuff sounds awesome. I don't find the wide open zones in any MMO to ever be very interesting. If you don't limit my freedom and give me an objective you don't have a carefully crafted exciting adventure waiting for me.
Wide open zones are the sandbox part of MMO's, good for messing around in, leveling up, bad for serious fun. Make them up of nothing but sandbox stuff and it gets boring.
Can we get a mod to delete 90% of the thread, please? -.-
Guys, I feel sorry for ya, but you need to go outside more. These posts looks like what I did before I stopped sitting at the computer 24/7.
This is maybe your 8th post in this thread. Single-sentenced. That has nothing to do with skirmishes. I asked why would community prefer instanced small heavily scripted zones over a single large open zone with exploration full of deeds etc.
What I like about the skirmishes is that its more to do. Questing and grinding deeds is fine but there are times I want to do something else and the skirmishes are fun. There are plenty of quests to do and deeds to complete the way things were before Mirkwood. I see nothing wrong with more/different things to do.
Multi-user content I kinda meant massive in scale. That it can hold and entertain hundreds of people at the same time on the same place (like a zone).
There is no doubt people have fun with skirmishes at the moment. On the other hand, it's been out for 2 days. We'll see how people's opinion will change over time. I do think a large open zone with deeds, quests would bring more content and more "fun" over time.
At the moment the world kinda feels very linear, mainly because the space between zones is not filled up. Forochel+Angmar, lonelands with north downs, ered luin with shire, the space between shire, evendim and north downs ... etc. These all could be filled up with a camp or two, new quests, even a new instance. I'm sure the man hours would be equal to creating a whole new scripted system of skirmishers. I'm afraid, the whole system was basically mainly to serve the only purpose - marketing trick to say Lotro brings new, cool, awesome, groundbreaking feature. We'll see over time I guess.
I can sort of see your point.
sort of what happened with Lineage 2 and the Catacombs/Necropoli (though not instanced) or Warhammer and the scenarios.
I finally got a chance to log into LOTRO today but it was only 20 minutes before they brought the servers down for a hot fix.
There were barely any players around in 21st hall or Lothlorien. My first thought was that the players must have logged as announcments for the server downtime were being broadcast on a regular basis.
My second thought was that I wondered if many players were either in the new content or actually in the skirmishes. Which then brought me the sort of chilling thought that, because of the way the rewards are being handled, skirmishes allow for a very fast, fun way to get these reward coins.
It's sort of a fine line that a developer has to walk.
Such new content can easily draw players away from the larger game world. this is, to my thinking, not necessarily bad as mmo's seem to border on the absurd when you have lots of players running to and fro doing all sorts of things that tend to add to the artificiality of the world. Fighting a monster only to have players talking right next to you does tend to bring one out of the world idea. Same with checking your mail only to have a player jumping up and down on the mailbox.
Yet, these worlds need to have some life and players do add that. Drawing them into instanced spaces might drain the world of that life.
I am all for instanced content because quite frankly it is the best way to further story lines or have more interesting events but at the same time the danger is that everyone will be entrenched in these skirmishes and the rest of the world might seem like a ghost town.
Sort of like how poeple have complained about the player made missions in the City of Heroes/Villains games.
I suppose only time will tell.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Something I would love to see would be where once you've gotten through Moria you'd find that some of the earlier zones have changed for your character. For example, the season would be moved toward winter and the various enemy camps would have grown or changed with whole new quests. This would have the effect of bringing people back to older zones to continue the story of protecting them while the Fellowship does their thing. It fits from a story perspective (since we already know that eventually the Shire will be taken over by Sharky/Saruman) and it would allow new content to be added without having to create whole new zones. It would also make the world feel more dynamic, which is something that MMO's tend to lack.
Of course the original versions would remain for new players. And old players could get back to those versions using reflecting pools, so that they could help lower level friends.
But that's all off the topic of this thread. To answer the OP I am also one of those who loves the skirmish system to the point of not having even crossed the river into Mirkwood yet.
I'm with the majority of the posters in this thread: Sieges represent a new form of gameplay which complements the existing stuff. It's good to have choices and variety! I wouldn't want a steady diet of skirmishes, but I love the option to jump into one whenever the mood strikes.
Good point! But adding new zone have the same effect on old zones, so 21st and Loth would become empty anyway. The benefit atleast not at launch is that the new zone wont be as crowded since alot of people will be running instances instead.
But Turbine have to be carefull to not give to good rewards from the skirmishes so eveyone will be stuck in thoose all the time. Since I enjoy instances more than running around doing boring quests in the world, I can see myself spening alot time in them. But instead of just standing in 21st spamming emotes and waiting for something to happen you can now just jump in a skirmish while waiting.
I think skirmishes bring more life to the world since old places are being used again and we have a reason to revisit places and not just moving in a linear way through the world. It also creates a feeling that the War of the ring is drawing close and that the entire middle earth is being effected and that we must protect it.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I do think the story in this genre generally is very poor even in compare to single player games (rather not mentioning books). Im used to read a lot of books, and in a way I do find the stories in MMORPG very weak. While Lotro is a bit above the average in the genre, 99% of the quest texts (including the book chain line) is poorly written and tend to be very inconsistent. It is understandable, you can't tell a good tale in a mmorpg with thousands of players. Especially, if you decide to have thousands of quests written in a short window with no additional interaction.
Aside from that, I do not think skirmishes are there to promote story-telling in the game. It feels much more like an instanced scripted battlefield where you jump whenever you wish and get an instant reward (eventho you need to accumulate the reward to recieve an actual item).
I believe this should be in game - in open zones instead of instances. Why didn't they make the scripted events in public areas occuring either randomly or at certain time? Turbine went the easier route and just made it all instanced - which I believe, is never a good thing for the game.
REALITY CHECK
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
To elaborate. I do think the world is currently small and very linear. I do think they should spend man hours rather to join together pieces of the map between the existing zones (north downs+lone lands, shire+ered luin, shire+evendim+north downs, forochel+angmar, misty+angmar+trollshaws)than on instanced content. And for the scripted content, I think they should use the existing public areas and not place everything into an instanced separated area.
I would surely continue with my subscription if things would go the pace as they went between SoA-MoM era. Three large open areas (evendim, forochel, eregion)+additions to already existing zones(misty, trollshaws, player housing areas), but since MoM it all kinda stopped. Even Mirkwood is smaller than expected. Yes, it would be great if they continued the trend, but they are did not and it doesn't seem they are gonna be picking up the pace again. We'll see, I hope I'm just a bad prophet.
REALITY CHECK
The skirmishes system, without a doubt. It's available for all levels from 30, not just the endgame levels, it offers variety in terms of content and rewards, and is fully scaleable for both the number of players and the difficulty level. It can also be added to and varied very easily.
One more zone is just anticipating a future addition, the skirmishes system introduces a while new concept to the game which can also be reflected in future additions.
It wins your question on every count.
You didn't have to elabortate
I understood. Just didnt see the problem as its so small amount of content in the big picture. But yes, the the development pace has gone down since MoM, but that doesnt mean we cant enjoy the Skirmishes for what it is; 11 or 12 solo/small group/group/raid semi-random adventures, that can be done whenever, whereever and by whoever. I fail to see the negatives here...
As unpopular as it may be, I find myself in agreement with Thillian.
I've played the skirmishes, and I found them to be fun, though not amazing like most people here seem to think of them. But like Thillian, I would have much rather seen the effort that was put in to Skirmishes bringing more of the world to life. Wandering around Middle-earth is my favorite aspect of this game, and being shoved into my own little nook (skirmish) is fun, it's not what I'm searching for in this game.
In addition, I've been horribly, horribly disappointed with the size of Mirkwood. A full expansion, and we're given an area smaller than Evendim (which was a free content update)? That strikes me as an act of desperation on Turbine's part. I really feel that they were in dire need of cash, and that alone was the reason that we had to pay for this update (granted, a large number of us didn't directly pay, but we paid with sub-counts and a bonus pack).
The one thing that does make me happy is that I'm sure that in the future, they should be able to give us some really fun battles using this system. Think Gondor, Helm's Deep, and the Black Gate. ^.^
I've long believed that the skirmish system is going to prove to be key to their plans for Helm's Deep and the like going forward. Some of those battles have to be truly epic, and this system would be very useful for accomplishing that. Which of course means that it makes sense for them to implement the feature now so that it can be refined and polished in time for the next expansion -- one that will without doubt be Riders of Rohan.
Also, from a story point of view it really does make more sense for the game to send us into Mirkwood now rather than immediately following the Fellowship. There's no way that the story would make sense to have us going south right now. That leaves north to the Gladden Fields, west and back into Moria (which nobody wants) or east into southern Mirkwood (which is what we got).
Is Mirkwood a bit small? Without doubt. Fortunately, they can easily add Gladden Fields in an update sometime before the next expansion. And as for the argument that it would have been better for them to put all their time into a new zone rather than the skirmish system, well that's a rather short sighted view. How much time do you spend in Eregion these days? Forochel? Evendim? No matter how well done a particular zone might be, it will have a fairly short lifespan. If it's a mid-level zone then it only benefits alts. If it's an end zone, everyone would soon tear through the content and then be left complaining that there's nothing to do. Moria proved that. As did the Lothlorien update that came later. New zones are good and important to the game, but the skirmish system is something that they can continuously refine and expand upon to provide fun content for all levels. Content that won't become outdated as quickly as a new zone would. Skirmishes alone would have been a bad expansion. But skirmishes combined with a new zone and new raids like they gave us is a good balance. And remember: they only charged half price for this expansion to begin with. They've never claimed it was a full expansion, but rather a mini-expansion. And they charged accordingly.
Skirmishes are instanced scaleable areas with specific objective. I see no reason why the current playerbase would enjoy such a feature. It drags players off from the public zones into separated instanced spaces. It's step away from a multi massive concept into arcade instanced rooms with attractions.
Absolutely the worst criticism ever. Criticizing an instance because.... Wait for it... It's an instance! Sorry man but if you want players to experience content in a controlled environment, it's going to be instanced. It's just the way MMOs work.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I do not really mind to have a minority opinion. Altho it is quite weird from you to say you are the majority in the game, you are just a majority on this thread like 5 : 2.
Someone asked me how much time I spent in Forochel or Eregion.. ? I spent at least 1-2 hundred of in game hours in each of these zones. And I keep visiting them all regularly just to re-encounter the ambience in the background (Forochel in this case)
Someone else above said, that instanced space is there to encounter more story. I disagree. They can implement story scripted events in open public zones. There is a technology out there already that allows you to see the world a bit differently than someone else next to you, eventho being part of the same world. It just requires more work. Skirmishes are basically the easiest solution to drag players off from public zones and community hubs into small instanced scripted driven zones. I enjoyed skirmishes a couple of times, but as with every instanced space, I got tired of it and then found myself running around Evendim while it rained.
I still believe, most of the lotro players are lore fans rather than the gameplay fans. I do believe they rather want to see the middle earth representation in beatiful 3d world. They all know the story already. I might be totally wrong here tho, and it really is just me.
REALITY CHECK
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Very well put, The reason LoTRO keeps me as a fan is there seems to be endless things to do ingame and it has something for almost every play style.
As far as the skirmish system I cannot see where there is anything not to like about it, as Zobie columbus put it in his developer diary:
My favorite part of the entire system! No joke. Skirmishes can be scaled to the group size and level of the group playing them, as well as having a difficulty toggle which will increase the rewards from the Skirmish. If this sounds great, it's because it is! However, allow me to fill in some of the details.
First, each scaling axis (level, size, difficulty) is set only when the Skirmish is created. They will not change during playthrough. For groups, the leader of the fellowship will decide what values to select.
Second, in the interests of balance we have only implemented solo, small fellowship, fellowship, and 12 man raid sizes for Skirmishes. This means when you select size, you can only select 1, 3, 6 or 12. At launch, all skirmishes can be played as 1, 3 and 6 man versions. Roughly half of them can also be run as 12-man raids. We will be unlocking the remaining 12-man versions in the future.
Third, a combination of the two above limitations means that if you set up a small fellowship (3 player) Skirmish and try to invite a 4th member, they will be unable to join. Simply exit the Skirmish, and re-create a fellowship (6 player) Skirmish. Playing with less than the maximum number of players is possible, though a bit more difficult.
So there are some restrictions, but we allow a significant amount of customization to create the kind of experience you want. My favorite part of all this is the difficulty scale. If a particular Skirmish seems too easy, simply step up the difficulty and you will find yourself challenged again, and receive more rewards!
www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/505-developer-diary-som-skirmishes-randomization-and-scaling
I miss DAoC
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
Ok, after playing for far to long last night, Thillian is extremely over simplifying skirmishes, and, due to not having played them at all, has zero understanding of just how fun, and how much of a challenge they can be and how much of a scope the sum of the changes and additions to the game this expansion brings. This isn't his fault, he hasn't played them, and can only speculate. However, reading that post you responded too.
He is incredibly wrong about the scope, function, fun, and is very much downplaying just about every aspect of this expansion. Without playing it.
I think anyone who has played them, and has been playing with the varying settings you can use, will understand why i say this about his post, especially the "Instant rewards" part. From the full group skirmishes I played last night, they are anything but instant, and anything but easy. They are extremely fun and challenging.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Sorry Thillian, but this time you dont make any sense. I know its only your opinion on the matter, but I fail it from you point of view. With all those open zones Turbine already have implented into the game since launch, this might be the variation Lotro needs? And, we know there are coming many more open zones to come, in futrure patches/expansions...so, why attack this little fragment of updated megabytes?
On another note; I hope high-levels get a new "hub" with SoM. I hate 21th Hall! So dark, boring place to be...
Ok, after playing for far to long last night, Thillian is extremely over simplifying skirmishes, and, due to not having played them at all, has zero understanding of just how fun, and how much of a challenge they can be and how much of a scope the sum of the changes and additions to the game this expansion brings. This isn't his fault, he hasn't played them, and can only speculate. However, reading that post you responded too.
He is incredibly wrong about the scope, function, fun, and is very much downplaying just about every aspect of this expansion. Without playing it.
I think anyone who has played them, and has been playing with the varying settings you can use, will understand why i say this about his post, especially the "Instant rewards" part. From the full group skirmishes I played last night, they are anything but instant, and anything but easy. They are extremely fun and challenging.
PLain and simple, skirmishes rock! They are fun and challenging and you can set your level of challenge for them. I have only done a couple solo skirmishes and I already think they are total fun! I can only imagine that the group skirmishes are even more fun. Really, one should TRY them before questioning them, because it just makes you sound like a troll Thillian.
This is the best addition to an Mmo ever ... I cant stop playing them , its like a whole new game within a game and I dont think I'll be going to Mirkwood just yet.
I've even just leveled from 55 to 56 just doing Skirmishes !
awesome wtg Lotro !
What would you choose. Be honest please:
Mirkwood is quite a small zone for a paid expansion. People have been waiting for a year, and now comes a zone, which is even smaller than Forochel or Evendim - that was added for free before.
a.
a), the skirmishes, no question about it. Adding another zone is the lazy way to make an expansion, that we've seen so many times in so many games. Adding a genuinely new idea to the game is much much more interesting than just knocking up another map.
B. If I want to play mini-games, I go play Wii with friends. Skirmishes are nothing more than instances with a pet system added (and yes, I HAVE played them, all save for the two that require the book chapters to unlock).
I've spent a signifcant amount of time in every zone in the game. They have far more replay value for me (everyone is different in this regard) that the diversion system they gave us.