See, it is possible for a WoW player to respond without flaming you.
Bingo. It's a shame that isn't the norm, rather than the exception. It would be nice if everyone could just share views on the various games in a nice civil manner like you just did.
Of course, I remember seeing somewhere that you came from Xegony ... we did have first class people there, didn't we =p
Originally posted by Wickes Yeah I guess I must either be very weird or a dying breed, lol. If I had my druthers, I would pick being thrown into a world with NO information at all about how to deal with anything in it ... and nope, I won't read manuals either ... hell refusing to read manuals is almost a religious principle Back when I started in the EQ1 beta 3, I got a CD in the mail ... period. No tutorial, no manual, no nothing. Man that was fun.
You should really check out Saga of Ryzom if you like being totally clueless about everything and figuring it out. One thing SoR had that EQ1 didn't when I tried was people that would help you out.
I tried EQ1 a few years ago (not soon enough to be considered in the "Elite Crowd" worthy of being talked to or helped). I spent 3 days as a drow trying to figure out how to make my character a mage-type and getting him somewhere to fight. Fought 1 thing died and said screw this. I've tried it again recently and I'm still a peon not worthy of most of the people but luckily there is a tutorial and I've learned more about MMO's.
I've peeked at the Ryzom site ... it does look somewhat interesting. My problem at the moment though is not finding a game I like but rather liking too many games and just not having enough time.
Sounds like you had a stellar experience in EQ1, lol. Sorry, I know it probably wasn't funny at the time but the way you've expressed it is funny as hell ... "Fought 1 thing died and said screw this" lol.
Anyway, you really must have had bad luck with server or people or both. Honestly, I've never met as many truly nice people anywhere in gaming as I met in EQ, and the truth is a majority of them are still there. But it is also true that as the years passed people got high level and were less inclined to want to educate more newbs. My guild was always a family style laid back sort of guild, and they still are. But they are mostly in the level 70 range now, elemental, etc. flagged at least, so there's not much interest in level 10 people. They do help an enormous number of people, but it's people who are within a reasonable range of where they are. There were always some lower totally casual guilds on our server though who would help anyone. It's a shame you didn't run into one of those.
Ppl say WoW is for kids and EQ is for mature players, I think its just the opposite.
It's the little kids who have the imagination to immerse themselves into the game, who have the time to spend 2 hours carrying rusty weapons from BB to Qeynos just to buy backpacks.
Its us older adult gamers that really don't care that much about the game. We want the game to service us, entertain us, the GAME should be doing the work, playing it shouldn't feel like work.
Me personally I loved WoW. Why? Because you can just jump in and play. I don't have the memory to remember who gave me what quest, I don't have time to make spreadsheets and calculate stats, to me a video game is just another form of media, like a movie DVD, I pop it in, it entertains me, when I hit level 60 I take the CD and toss it.
With EQ1/2 the game is a second life. If that's the kind of immersiveness you're looking for great. I really don't see the necessity to play the same game for years, especially not when it's actively TRYING to slow me down.
Entertainment should mean just that : being entertained. Not create a virtual world and expect all the players to entertain themselves, and have people pay $15 a month to tweak some stats and add some text. I bought DOOM 3 for $40, I think for almost half of that you can at LEAST dish out a new dungeon or something, instead of making me play for a year to get to level 60, and then make me dish out 50 bucks for a new continent.
Its really not about money, it's about not enjoying the feeling of getting milked. It's not a good feeling. That's what I feel SOE did with its EQ series was basically milk its fans.
But beyond the money, the basic issue is that games like EQ take way too long to get to the entertainment.
Going through newbie hell is not fun. I don't feel the need to spend 6 months of my life just to see a virtual dragon.
Anyway the whole D&D hack and slash genre is so overdone, it just isn't fun anymore. If I see another elf I'll puke.
I agree with fizzle. I too cannot understand how ignorant some people are when they proclaim WoW to be a "kiddie" game. Sure, some people dont like simplicity, and they like complexity, but does complexity make game good? In early EQ1, my only means of travel was either run (begging for a soe before that) or if i hada druid/wizard friend, port. So, does this limitation on travel really means the game is very complex and thus very good? No, it was stupid and boring. Sure, some people might say it adds to the reality of the game, but in my opinion, it was stupid and boring. Same with questing, navigation and travel - all of those I hate in EQ2 and love in WoW. Questing is the biggest pain, I never know what NPC hasa quest, except that sometimes they tell me they do or wave to me. But that is not 100% accurate, many times NPC says "I have a task for you" and when i click on them, they realy dont have anything for me.
And when I do complete a quest, its often very hard to find that NPC again, usualy there are no references to where that NPCs is, except for the zone hes in. Navigation is another annoyance generator, I actually dont mind zoning in and out, what i hate is the fact I have no control over map outside my zone. Meaning, i cant see the best route to get from lets say beggars court to south freeport, I think i have to go through east freeport, then i get to south. EQ2 is surprisingly a game with big contrasts. From one side, its failure to be simple enough for a new player to get around FP with an outstanding combat and grouping experience. When I started playing EQ2, i was very frustrated and annoyed, but i did hold on to it and right now im enjoying this game immensly. I hope SOe listens to this and makes EQ2 more userfriendly I bet it would be a lot more fun to play. Just a suggestion realy.
Originally posted by aeric67 WoW is fun, for a little while, but man is it ever dumbed-down! Everything is just so simple. Fighting, looting, customizing your character, graphics, questing, "!", "?", running around, beating mobs, the list goes on. This game is EXTREMELY approachable and easy, but man, that's not really a good thing in an MMOG where I expect a deep and involved gaming experience!
This is pretty much why I am returning to EQ2!
Yeah I'm leaning this way myself. I've enjoyed my time for the most part in WoW. I'm just getting a little bored way too fast. City of Heroes was the same thing for me. It was great fun... for a while, then it started getting boring. One of the biggest problems for me in WoW, besides the horrendous technical problems, is that it's basicly a one player game that you're paying $15/month to play. Nobody wants to group. Everyone wants to grind by themselves because they just want to get to level 60 rather than have some fun with other players.
I recently bought EQ2 and so far I've enjoyed it quite a bit and really enjoyed the grouping. I haven't totally given up on WoW yet for EQ2, but I'm slowly leaning in that direction.
When I play EQ2, I feel like I'm in a box. I'm always in a box, no matter what I do. Encounters are locked. Chests are locked. I can't buff other players when they are encounter locked.
Everything is too preplanned and rigid.
You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
All the spells, equipment, heroic opportunities, monsters, treasure, zones, houses and quests are contained within the rules of the basic box. Go beyond the details, and you see that the box consists of little more than PvE solo, PvE group, buy/sell and use equipment and spells that are appropriate to your level. All the things that some players view as problems (kill steal, treasure steal, PvP) do not exist in EQ2. Aggro trains did not seem to be much of a problem either if you were not part of the lock.
That's really the funny part about it. Even though EQ2 is more complex, you actually have fewer human options within the game. You will here this argument alot from former players: the game is too controlled.
WOW is more wide open. Its may not be as complex, but you can do more things spontaneously. You can buff other players, duel other players and kill other players on the other side. The game moves faster too. I also find it more fun and less of a chore to play.
WOW is fun. EQ2 is work. WOW is easy, EQ2 is hard. WOW is like eating popcorn, drinking a coke and watching a movie or playing a well made version of diablo. EQ2 is like drinking coffee and working on a spreadsheet.
My full time job is 50 hours a week of sytems analysis and design. Configuration management and control is the name of that game. I don't need more of the same in my play time. I've played both games and WOW wins.
History: 4 Years of EQ1, 3 Months of Eve, Weekend tests of Guildwars.
Wow is for 11 year olds eq2 is for mature 18+, and how does a game win? its all preferance. and yes i played wow since launch till a month ago it was to damn easy, eq 2 is a challenge and a awsome game.
Originally posted by nonjonron I've played both. I like WOW better. Here's why: When I play EQ2, I feel like I'm in a box. I'm always in a box, no matter what I do. Encounters are locked. Chests are locked. I can't buff other players when they are encounter locked. Everything is too preplanned and rigid. You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited. All the spells, equipment, heroic opportunities, monsters, treasure, zones, houses and quests are contained within the rules of the basic box. Go beyond the details, and you see that the box consists of little more than PvE solo, PvE group, buy/sell and use equipment and spells that are appropriate to your level. All the things that some players view as problems (kill steal, treasure steal, PvP) do not exist in EQ2. Aggro trains did not seem to be much of a problem either if you were not part of the lock. That's really the funny part about it. Even though EQ2 is more complex, you actually have fewer human options within the game. You will here this argument alot from former players: the game is too controlled. WOW is more wide open. Its may not be as complex, but you can do more things spontaneously. You can buff other players, duel other players and kill other players on the other side. The game moves faster too. I also find it more fun and less of a chore to play. WOW is fun. EQ2 is work. WOW is easy, EQ2 is hard. WOW is like eating popcorn, drinking a coke and watching a movie or playing a well made version of diablo. EQ2 is like drinking coffee and working on a spreadsheet. My full time job is 50 hours a week of sytems analysis and design. Configuration management and control is the name of that game. I don't need more of the same in my play time. I've played both games and WOW wins. History: 4 Years of EQ1, 3 Months of Eve, Weekend tests of Guildwars.
Excellent analysis, couldn't agree more.
SOE has a hard on for controlling the way they want gamers to play, to the point of it being no fun at all.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Maybe it's just me but I have fun. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be playing if I wasn't. If anything I feel i'm not in a box. Theres so much stuff to do it really never feels like you're being led to do something. I guess all of us have been fooled this whole time. If someone says it's not fun then I guees none of us are having fun. Oh well.
Actually, if you had read the post, he said, " I like WOW better. Here's why: When I play EQ2, I feel like I'm in a box. "
Note the frequent use of the word "I". Generally, when people talk about their own feelings, perceptions, and experiences, you can assume the "YMMV" part. Lots of people have strong feelings about the games they play or have played, so you have to expect things in strong terms, and realize that their feelings are personal to them.
I am actually kind of envious of people who can play both games. I have a lot of friends getting toward 50 in EQ2, and I would have liked to have been able to log on and hang out with them from time-to-time along the way. I play Wow, but I think EQ2 looks like fun, too. My computer won't run it, in any case, and upgrades for what is essentially an e-mail and chat machine are pretty low on my priority list.
I'd probably still be in the same boat in EQ2 that I am in WoW-- I've been playing since December and I just hit 26 with one character, 19 with another, and I'm not really playing anything else. My husband left me in the dust with his warlock and still managed to keep a shaman on level with my hunter (the 26's). If WoW is too easy and EQ2 takes longer, I'd probably still be on the newbie island. How far could I expect to get in a few months of playing 4-7 hours a week in EQ2? (That's not meant to be sarcastic. That's an actual question.)
I've decided to ignore the "WoW is for 11 year olds and EQ2 is for 18+" comments, since that hasn't been my experience in the game at all. Most of the people I play WoW with are 25+. I would say that the Alliance side is all 11 year olds, but that's probably just prejudice on my part.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Originally posted by nonjonron You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
I must say, an excellent review NONJONRON. I agree with you 100%. However, I still play EQ2 because even though I am limited in my freedom, EQ2 gives me something WoW cant - non ganking environment and outstanding combat.
I understand your feelings toward universe in EQ2, I also couldnt "get it" from the first try. I hated and still hate FP navigation and questing. The first time I tried EQ2 i was frustrated I left in 2 days. I tried again several weeks later (mostly becuase my old EQ1 guild was playing there) and I simply minimized my presence in FP, I tried to ignore all the negative parts and simply get into what I liked most - grouped combat. True, its locked and we are very limited in what we can do, but to me, each encounter is like a mini-raid.
I havent even started working on my tradeskills (aside the things I did in the noob zone, Refuge island) so I cant comment much on that.
My advice to you if you ever want to give it a 2nd try, ignore stuff you dislike and concentrate on stuff u like. If you dislike questing as I do, you can skip it most of it (most of them suck anyway). I like both games, WoW and EQ2. I played WoW since the beginning, but I grew tired of all the ganking and PvP, and I didnt feel like making a char on a RP or PvE server.
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by nonjonron You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
I dont think he is talking about griefing. After all, WoW doesnt have locked combat and yet you CANT grief. the person who hits mob first gets full credit for killing it. If a high level person who is in your group helps u kill it, u get credit but u wont get exp. If a high level helps u kill mob and he is not in your group, you get partial exp - so you wont be able to powerlevel and you wont get griefed either. This openess however allows greater cooperation between people, as well as a feeling of freedom - you can do what you want. This doesnt bother me, but I can see how it may bother others (it may bother both ways, people who still like EQ2 locked combat becuase they dont like anyone intruding into their fight, and people who like WoW combat who dont mind others joining up at random, saving their butts or ressurrecting them in case of a wipe).
Originally posted by nonjonron You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
You can't grief in WoW, because the coding is too intelligent to allow it, yet you are not confined in a box, to where you cannot aid other players. All PvP systems have an element of ganking, but in WoW you choose PvP if you want to participate, it's not forced upon you.
One of the best ways to meet people in a MMOG is by offering aid. Can't do that in a locked combat system like EQ2. In WoW, whoever tags the mob first gets the kill and looting rights, and you can't train mobs because they aren't stupid and attack anything in their path, they maintain agro and return to their original pathing when a player evades them.
If I see players in WoW in trouble, I can help with combat or healing and buffs while they are fighting. Great way to make friends. Isn't that what MMOG's are supposed to be about, interaction, not exclusion?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Jorev You can't grief in WoW, because the coding is too intelligent to allow it, yet you are not confined in a box, to where you cannot aid other players. All PvP systems have an element of ganking, but in WoW you choose PvP if you want to participate, it's not forced upon you. One of the best ways to meet people in a MMOG is by offering aid. Can't do that in a locked combat system like EQ2. In WoW, whoever tags the mob first gets the kill and looting rights, and you can't train mobs because they aren't stupid and attack anything in their path, they maintain agro and return to their original pathing when a player evades them. If I see players in WoW in trouble, I can help with combat or healing and buffs while they are fighting. Great way to make friends. Isn't that what MMOG's are supposed to be about, interaction, not exclusion?
I agree on the grief part, I sort of disagree on the gank part. You are correct, if the player is on a Non PvP server, but if they are on PvP - the rules are clear - anything goes, meaning any1 can attack anyone (except in the noob zones, if you dont attack enemy, you are safe in a noob zone). I made a mistake and created my char on PvP server. I thought constant danger of getting killed would be a nice motivation to pay attention to my surroundings. At first it was fine, but then it got ridiculous (ex a very high player killing a very low player in 2-3 hits). Im a pretty high level (47) im in a great guild, i made a lot of friends there, so Im not realy interested in moving to a non-PvP server. TO me, this "anarchy" was the biggest turnoff in WoW, thats one of the main reasons why i went in to try EQ2.
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by nonjonron You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
This is the part I was refering to. The OP specificlyly states he want's to be able to steal loot.
Originally posted by necbone just because something is more complicated or harder dosnt mean its better.... and WoW is for fun^^
What do you know, EQ2 is fun too. It really depends on what you want...and sometimes complicated DOES mean it's better. Otherwise we'd all be playing pong for its simplicity.
Comments
Bingo. It's a shame that isn't the norm, rather than the exception. It would be nice if everyone could just share views on the various games in a nice civil manner like you just did.
Of course, I remember seeing somewhere that you came from Xegony ... we did have first class people there, didn't we =p
Can't believe this thread is still alive. I've revised my opinions like three times since posting this LOL. BTW: Playing WoW now
LOL Aeric
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I tried EQ1 a few years ago (not soon enough to be considered in the "Elite Crowd" worthy of being talked to or helped). I spent 3 days as a drow trying to figure out how to make my character a mage-type and getting him somewhere to fight. Fought 1 thing died and said screw this. I've tried it again recently and I'm still a peon not worthy of most of the people but luckily there is a tutorial and I've learned more about MMO's.
I've peeked at the Ryzom site ... it does look somewhat interesting. My problem at the moment though is not finding a game I like but rather liking too many games and just not having enough time.
Sounds like you had a stellar experience in EQ1, lol. Sorry, I know it probably wasn't funny at the time but the way you've expressed it is funny as hell ... "Fought 1 thing died and said screw this" lol.
Anyway, you really must have had bad luck with server or people or both. Honestly, I've never met as many truly nice people anywhere in gaming as I met in EQ, and the truth is a majority of them are still there. But it is also true that as the years passed people got high level and were less inclined to want to educate more newbs. My guild was always a family style laid back sort of guild, and they still are. But they are mostly in the level 70 range now, elemental, etc. flagged at least, so there's not much interest in level 10 people. They do help an enormous number of people, but it's people who are within a reasonable range of where they are. There were always some lower totally casual guilds on our server though who would help anyone. It's a shame you didn't run into one of those.
Ppl say WoW is for kids and EQ is for mature players, I think its just the opposite.
It's the little kids who have the imagination to immerse themselves into the game, who have the time to spend 2 hours carrying rusty weapons from BB to Qeynos just to buy backpacks.
Its us older adult gamers that really don't care that much about the game. We want the game to service us, entertain us, the GAME should be doing the work, playing it shouldn't feel like work.
Me personally I loved WoW. Why? Because you can just jump in and play. I don't have the memory to remember who gave me what quest, I don't have time to make spreadsheets and calculate stats, to me a video game is just another form of media, like a movie DVD, I pop it in, it entertains me, when I hit level 60 I take the CD and toss it.
With EQ1/2 the game is a second life. If that's the kind of immersiveness you're looking for great. I really don't see the necessity to play the same game for years, especially not when it's actively TRYING to slow me down.
Entertainment should mean just that : being entertained. Not create a virtual world and expect all the players to entertain themselves, and have people pay $15 a month to tweak some stats and add some text. I bought DOOM 3 for $40, I think for almost half of that you can at LEAST dish out a new dungeon or something, instead of making me play for a year to get to level 60, and then make me dish out 50 bucks for a new continent.
Its really not about money, it's about not enjoying the feeling of getting milked. It's not a good feeling. That's what I feel SOE did with its EQ series was basically milk its fans.
But beyond the money, the basic issue is that games like EQ take way too long to get to the entertainment.
Going through newbie hell is not fun. I don't feel the need to spend 6 months of my life just to see a virtual dragon.
Anyway the whole D&D hack and slash genre is so overdone, it just isn't fun anymore. If I see another elf I'll puke.
I agree with fizzle. I too cannot understand how ignorant some people are when they proclaim WoW to be a "kiddie" game. Sure, some people dont like simplicity, and they like complexity, but does complexity make game good? In early EQ1, my only means of travel was either run (begging for a soe before that) or if i hada druid/wizard friend, port. So, does this limitation on travel really means the game is very complex and thus very good? No, it was stupid and boring. Sure, some people might say it adds to the reality of the game, but in my opinion, it was stupid and boring. Same with questing, navigation and travel - all of those I hate in EQ2 and love in WoW. Questing is the biggest pain, I never know what NPC hasa quest, except that sometimes they tell me they do or wave to me. But that is not 100% accurate, many times NPC says "I have a task for you" and when i click on them, they realy dont have anything for me.
And when I do complete a quest, its often very hard to find that NPC again, usualy there are no references to where that NPCs is, except for the zone hes in. Navigation is another annoyance generator, I actually dont mind zoning in and out, what i hate is the fact I have no control over map outside my zone. Meaning, i cant see the best route to get from lets say beggars court to south freeport, I think i have to go through east freeport, then i get to south.
EQ2 is surprisingly a game with big contrasts. From one side, its failure to be simple enough for a new player to get around FP with an outstanding combat and grouping experience. When I started playing EQ2, i was very frustrated and annoyed, but i did hold on to it and right now im enjoying this game immensly. I hope SOe listens to this and makes EQ2 more userfriendly I bet it would be a lot more fun to play. Just a suggestion realy.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This is pretty much why I am returning to EQ2!
Yeah I'm leaning this way myself. I've enjoyed my time for the most part in WoW. I'm just getting a little bored way too fast. City of Heroes was the same thing for me. It was great fun... for a while, then it started getting boring. One of the biggest problems for me in WoW, besides the horrendous technical problems, is that it's basicly a one player game that you're paying $15/month to play. Nobody wants to group. Everyone wants to grind by themselves because they just want to get to level 60 rather than have some fun with other players.
I recently bought EQ2 and so far I've enjoyed it quite a bit and really enjoyed the grouping. I haven't totally given up on WoW yet for EQ2, but I'm slowly leaning in that direction.
I've played both. I like WOW better. Here's why:
When I play EQ2, I feel like I'm in a box. I'm always in a box, no matter what I do. Encounters are locked. Chests are locked. I can't buff other players when they are encounter locked.
Everything is too preplanned and rigid.
You're right, EQ2 is deeper. But no matter how you look at it, they still keep you in that box. The box may have alot of bells and whistles. There may be lots of spells, tons of recipes and different equipment, but it always has 4 corners and you can't break out. The game reminds me of a deep narrow hole. It may be deep but its still confining. I look at other players, talk to other players, sell to other players and group with other players, but that's it. There is no "human" mischief in the game. I can't steal their loot. Nor can I PvP them. The box is built too tight for me to do anything but very basic things, all in a very controlled and limited fashion. Despite the games depth, the options available to me in terms of personal variation are actually quite limited.
All the spells, equipment, heroic opportunities, monsters, treasure, zones, houses and quests are contained within the rules of the basic box. Go beyond the details, and you see that the box consists of little more than PvE solo, PvE group, buy/sell and use equipment and spells that are appropriate to your level. All the things that some players view as problems (kill steal, treasure steal, PvP) do not exist in EQ2. Aggro trains did not seem to be much of a problem either if you were not part of the lock.
That's really the funny part about it. Even though EQ2 is more complex, you actually have fewer human options within the game. You will here this argument alot from former players: the game is too controlled.
WOW is more wide open. Its may not be as complex, but you can do more things spontaneously. You can buff other players, duel other players and kill other players on the other side. The game moves faster too. I also find it more fun and less of a chore to play.
WOW is fun. EQ2 is work. WOW is easy, EQ2 is hard. WOW is like eating popcorn, drinking a coke and watching a movie or playing a well made version of diablo. EQ2 is like drinking coffee and working on a spreadsheet.
My full time job is 50 hours a week of sytems analysis and design. Configuration management and control is the name of that game. I don't need more of the same in my play time. I've played both games and WOW wins.
History: 4 Years of EQ1, 3 Months of Eve, Weekend tests of Guildwars.
Wow is for 11 year olds eq2 is for mature 18+, and how does a game win? its all preferance. and yes i played wow since launch till a month ago it was to damn easy, eq 2 is a challenge and a awsome game.
Excellent analysis, couldn't agree more.
SOE has a hard on for controlling the way they want gamers to play, to the point of it being no fun at all.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
LMAO, whew thats funny....
excuse me as i wipe the soda off my monitor
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Maybe it's just me but I have fun. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be playing if I wasn't. If anything I feel i'm not in a box. Theres so much stuff to do it really never feels like you're being led to do something. I guess all of us have been fooled this whole time. If someone says it's not fun then I guees none of us are having fun. Oh well.
Actually, if you had read the post, he said, " I like WOW better. Here's why: When I play EQ2, I feel like I'm in a box. "
Note the frequent use of the word "I". Generally, when people talk about their own feelings, perceptions, and experiences, you can assume the "YMMV" part. Lots of people have strong feelings about the games they play or have played, so you have to expect things in strong terms, and realize that their feelings are personal to them.
I am actually kind of envious of people who can play both games. I have a lot of friends getting toward 50 in EQ2, and I would have liked to have been able to log on and hang out with them from time-to-time along the way. I play Wow, but I think EQ2 looks like fun, too. My computer won't run it, in any case, and upgrades for what is essentially an e-mail and chat machine are pretty low on my priority list.
I'd probably still be in the same boat in EQ2 that I am in WoW-- I've been playing since December and I just hit 26 with one character, 19 with another, and I'm not really playing anything else. My husband left me in the dust with his warlock and still managed to keep a shaman on level with my hunter (the 26's). If WoW is too easy and EQ2 takes longer, I'd probably still be on the newbie island. How far could I expect to get in a few months of playing 4-7 hours a week in EQ2? (That's not meant to be sarcastic. That's an actual question.)
I've decided to ignore the "WoW is for 11 year olds and EQ2 is for 18+" comments, since that hasn't been my experience in the game at all. Most of the people I play WoW with are 25+. I would say that the Alliance side is all 11 year olds, but that's probably just prejudice on my part.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I THINK THAT WOW IS VERY VERY GOOD, but i think it is overrated, and ev2 i have never played and frankly dont want to
ev2?
WOOT 100th post on this topic
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
I must say, an excellent review NONJONRON. I agree with you 100%. However, I still play EQ2 because even though I am limited in my freedom, EQ2 gives me something WoW cant - non ganking environment and outstanding combat.
I understand your feelings toward universe in EQ2, I also couldnt "get it" from the first try. I hated and still hate FP navigation and questing. The first time I tried EQ2 i was frustrated I left in 2 days. I tried again several weeks later (mostly becuase my old EQ1 guild was playing there) and I simply minimized my presence in FP, I tried to ignore all the negative parts and simply get into what I liked most - grouped combat. True, its locked and we are very limited in what we can do, but to me, each encounter is like a mini-raid.
I havent even started working on my tradeskills (aside the things I did in the noob zone, Refuge island) so I cant comment much on that.
My advice to you if you ever want to give it a 2nd try, ignore stuff you dislike and concentrate on stuff u like. If you dislike questing as I do, you can skip it most of it (most of them suck anyway). I like both games, WoW and EQ2. I played WoW since the beginning, but I grew tired of all the ganking and PvP, and I didnt feel like making a char on a RP or PvE server.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
I dont think he is talking about griefing. After all, WoW doesnt have locked combat and yet you CANT grief. the person who hits mob first gets full credit for killing it. If a high level person who is in your group helps u kill it, u get credit but u wont get exp. If a high level helps u kill mob and he is not in your group, you get partial exp - so you wont be able to powerlevel and you wont get griefed either. This openess however allows greater cooperation between people, as well as a feeling of freedom - you can do what you want.
This doesnt bother me, but I can see how it may bother others (it may bother both ways, people who still like EQ2 locked combat becuase they dont like anyone intruding into their fight, and people who like WoW combat who dont mind others joining up at random, saving their butts or ressurrecting them in case of a wipe).
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
You can't grief in WoW, because the coding is too intelligent to allow it, yet you are not confined in a box, to where you cannot aid other players. All PvP systems have an element of ganking, but in WoW you choose PvP if you want to participate, it's not forced upon you.
One of the best ways to meet people in a MMOG is by offering aid. Can't do that in a locked combat system like EQ2. In WoW, whoever tags the mob first gets the kill and looting rights, and you can't train mobs because they aren't stupid and attack anything in their path, they maintain agro and return to their original pathing when a player evades them.
If I see players in WoW in trouble, I can help with combat or healing and buffs while they are fighting. Great way to make friends. Isn't that what MMOG's are supposed to be about, interaction, not exclusion?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I agree on the grief part, I sort of disagree on the gank part. You are correct, if the player is on a Non PvP server, but if they are on PvP - the rules are clear - anything goes, meaning any1 can attack anyone (except in the noob zones, if you dont attack enemy, you are safe in a noob zone). I made a mistake and created my char on PvP server. I thought constant danger of getting killed would be a nice motivation to pay attention to my surroundings. At first it was fine, but then it got ridiculous (ex a very high player killing a very low player in 2-3 hits). Im a pretty high level (47) im in a great guild, i made a lot of friends there, so Im not realy interested in moving to a non-PvP server. TO me, this "anarchy" was the biggest turnoff in WoW, thats one of the main reasons why i went in to try EQ2.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
So you're upset that they've reduced griefing? Sort of makes me glad you do play WoW.
This is the part I was refering to. The OP specificlyly states he want's to be able to steal loot.
just because something is more complicated or harder dosnt mean its better....
and WoW is for fun^^
What do you know, EQ2 is fun too. It really depends on what you want...and sometimes complicated DOES mean it's better. Otherwise we'd all be playing pong for its simplicity.