its so funny to see fanboi's talk about DF and skill... really? It takes skill to swing that sword over and over and over? [or have a macro do it for you] or cast that magic spell over and over?
Swinging does not take skill. Hitting something takes skill.
Take magic or archery are you implying that it is trivial to hit someone strafing back and forth some distance away?
Unlike game mechanics where you "lock" onto an enemy in DF your ranged attacks only hit if the opponent is in the location when the spell/arrow makes it to that location. I think that qualifies as skill.
The question is are you enjoying your time getting maker at making staves? I mean if your not then why play at all, that is the game, because you can make a better staff will not make thing magically more fun, the same is true of people who complain that they hate raiding and yet keep playing and complaining when their game keeps releasing raid content. If your enjoy yourself then who cares about the grind? Is there some huge rush for you to be able to make more powerful staves? i really doubt there is, so just take your time and have fun, wether you can make better stuff now or next week is not a huge issue as long as your progress and enjoy yourself. If the fun is not there, it will never be there just because you made a virtual item that has better numbers on it. I think many modern MMOs have brainwashed people into thinking there is some rush to reach endgame be it pve, pvp or crafting and that the journey to that point is a necessary evil to reach the magical endgame which is never really magical at all. If Darkfall did one huge thing for me it is that I do not feel that pressure in game and find I can go at my own pace and enjoy myself, where in a game like WoW, Aion, whatever, I feel that sense of having to rush with my sights solely on endgame and i trudge though the sludge of leveling.
No, I don't plan to sub another month.
I'm bored, waiting on MO.
And you're way off.
I don't mind things taking time. Just because something requires an investment of time doesn't mean that it's tedious. What you do in that time is what is tedious.
In order to progress in DF, you have to achieve specific levels.
For example, in order to make a staff that is of any value, I have to get to something like level 25 alchemy. In order to do that I'll need to craft several hundred useless staves. I'm not talking about making a bunch of DIFFIRENT staves over the time it will take to get to the next level, I have to make THE SAME staff several hundred times. As a level 1 alchemist I saw only TWO thing I could make to increase my level.
Then I have to suply the materials to do this.
I need money for the tools that will eventually break, and mats to make the item. I can harvest THE SAME ROCK for hours on end, I can kill THE SAME MOB for hours on end to get the resources I need. I don't mind harvesting, I don't mind killing mobs, it's not the default action that is tedious. It's the VERY LIMITTED options that I have to achieve what I want to do.
In order to mine better, so that I can get more resources that I need faster, I need to get mining to 75.
Since I need both the iron and sulfar, gems and such that I get from mining (granted I don't need them at the moment, but eventually will, and therefore I hold onto them) I can't really afford to sell what I get, but I need money. I have to replace my pickaxe. I have to kill stuff. Currently, were I'm at, I know of 2 mobs I can kill, goblins and skeletons. Skeletons are risky because of thier location they're a bit of a hotspot for PK's to hit. Goblins are much safer cause I can get back to safety if need be. (because of my levels I can't compete with the PK's, I die in a fraction of the time it takes me to kill someone; expecially when they're shooting high end magic at me, and all I got is mana missile and eldritch (sp?) sphere)
In the last 3 weeks or so I've killed just over 200 goblins. I mean that literally, I looked in the journal. In that time I've aquired only one other attack, a spell that requires sulfar to cast, the same stuff I need to make staves. Lesser magic is my highest skill at 66, my harvests are in the 40's, and I might have my sword skill over 25, I haven't actually looked though.
Finding something tediious isn't the same as saying I want it now.
PS: Crafting in DF is EXACTLY LIKE WOW. I really don't know WTF you're on about.
WoW crafting is done in the exact same way as DF crafting. It uses the same level prerequesites and everything. Weaponsmiths can only craft X weapon at Y level, etc. But WoW allows you to craft a tone of stuff at any given level, within any given craft; DF doesn't.
2. Try to focus a bit on skills: go and kill goblins / kobolds / trolls / orcs / akathars / centuars etc whatever you can handle. Use bow and melee weapon or with spells and melee or whatever combination you want to level up. You will notice faster progression.
From what I have heard yesterday from a fellow clan member you need around 24 hours of strict melee fighting to reach the max level in it. Some people see it as acceptable, I don't, especially in a game where pvp have such a huge influence on all other content.
The grind is one of the main reasons why I may swap to Mortal Online if it will deliver, right now that game is much bigger mess then DF was in early beta. However if you have access to MO beta you can definitely appreciate much faster progression, meaningful stats ( STR, AGI, INT etc ) and faster resources gathering, the game design direction. What I can't stand is place holder pve ( I doubt they will ever make it as good as Darkfall's ), placeholders, placeholders...in general the early stage of development.
I resubbed DF about 3 weeks ago.
I have to agree with you and the OP, 100%
The grind and levels is killing me.
I wanted to make staves. In order to make then I need alchemy.
In order to get alchemy I need 25 wisdom. I only had 22.
Harvesting and crafting increase Wis. I fished, herbed, logged, mined for a couple hours every night for the past 4 days to get my wisdom up. In between I would fight some goblins to get the money I needed to buy the tools and skills so that I could eventually make staves.
My wisdom is now 25.something.
My lesser magic is now 66.+. I want to do mostly magic.
My harvesting skills are in the 40's. Low.
Alchemy is only like 14.
I can make a Rank 0 staff. It's not any better then what the goblins drop.
I have to use 2 sulfar to make one staff. No one wants to buy these staves, they're vendor trash. The NPC sells sulfar for 4g, that's expensive, don't buy from him. Players sell it much cheaper, I have to kill goblins a lot to get a healthy suply of gold for sulfar.
I mine for my sulfar.
In about an hour of mining I can get 12+ sulfar. I use 2 to make a staff.
I've made almost 30 staves. I have only 14 alchemy. I need 2 sulfar to make one staff. I have to mine for about an hour to get 12 more.
Lineage 2 was NEVER this tedious.
I hate grinding, op you right QQ. Man, if you hate grinding, get in a clan and stop working on crafting. work on your pvp skill and you will be done with it faster. Let your clanmates help you get full ekwip and in return, promess them that you will serve them as a pker or a pver. God damn. You hate to grind but you still work on the part to grind when you dont even need to do this.
I hate grinding, op you right QQ. Man, if you hate grinding, get in a clan and stop working on crafting. work on your pvp skill and you will be done with it faster. Let your clanmates help you get full ekwip and in return, promess them that you will serve them as a pker or a pver. God damn. You hate to grind but you still work on the part to grind when you dont even need to do this.
Every MMO has grinding.
It's about how that grind is presented.
I could indeed just join a clan, but if what I want to do is craft then WTF would I join a clan and do PvP or PvE.
I want to craft stuff. If I wanted to PvE I wouldn't be crafting, if I wanted to do PvP, I wouldn't be crafting. Joining a clan and doing something other then what it is that I want to do doesn't solve the problem. It's ignoring it.
I said tedious.
This is pretty much my definition of MMO tedious.
I load up my bag with the resources I need to craft and raise my skill to craft the next thing.
I go to a station, click it, select the item, set the value of the number of items I want to craft to 100 and then I sit there, for about half an hour. I WATCH THE GAME PLAY ITSELF.
Harvesting.
I walk up to the node I click it, and I watch my guy harvest for about 15 min. Then I make him rest for about 3-5 minutes, then I click the node again and WATCH THE GAME PLAY ITSELF for another 15 min.
You can't justify the level grind in DF with do something else, when I'm doing what I already want to do.
Especially when there are other games that allow me to do what I want to do without tedious gameplay to grind levels.
MO's crafting isn't even fully implimented yet and it's actually fun. A skill sytem, with caps, and things like refining skills and the ability to mix resources and experiment with dif. combinations and quantities of mats, is going to make it great.
BTW, I don't really enjoy crafting in any game that much. I'm not much of a crafter, more explorer/ harvest/ pvper.
I'm bored and I was curious what does it take to really craft in DF.
Originally posted by Fariic PS: Crafting in DF is EXACTLY LIKE WOW. I really don't know WTF you're on about. WoW crafting is done in the exact same way as DF crafting. It uses the same level prerequesites and everything. Weaponsmiths can only craft X weapon at Y level, etc. But WoW allows you to craft a tone of stuff at any given level, within any given craft; DF doesn't.
What he's going on about is that crafted items are the best items in DFO, unlike WoW where they're the retarded step-brother to raid/PvP loot. Yes, both have crafting, but crafting matters more in DFO.
I will agree with you that the number of items you can craft at lower levels is restricting though.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
PS: Crafting in DF is EXACTLY LIKE WOW. I really don't know WTF you're on about.
WoW crafting is done in the exact same way as DF crafting. It uses the same level prerequesites and everything. Weaponsmiths can only craft X weapon at Y level, etc. But WoW allows you to craft a tone of stuff at any given level, within any given craft; DF doesn't.
What he's going on about is that crafted items are the best items in DFO, unlike WoW where they're the retarded step-brother to raid/PvP loot. Yes, both have crafting, but crafting matters more in DFO.
I will agree with you that the number of items you can craft at lower levels is restricting though.
I did get that.
What I said still aplies though. Honestly, and while yes some people are going to need to craft in order to do certian things, like boats, you don't need to craft. That is to say, if I don't want to I don't have to; someone else will.
I can treat crafting much like I treat wow crafting, and in fact normally I would. I'd level to max, and then start crafting as a means to supliment my character.
The only real dif. is the aquasition of items in game. The good stuff comes from crafters in DF, yes. However, I don't think that makes it any more spectacular or better then WoW's. Especially when you consider the number of endgame options you have.
How many dif. greataxes require 100 skill to craft? You're very limitted with what you can get thta is "the best", and I dont' think that because the only way to get it is from another player makes it better. Just dif. Yes, WoW raid gear is the same thing, only one of "the best". Don't forget though, people buy crafted stuff in WoW, and they pay to have things crafted.
In the end, crafting isn't any dif. then WoW.
To be fair to DF though.
I may only be able to craft a couple things at any given level, but I can learn all of the crafting skills that would allow me to make a bunch of stuff when combined.
Except, dear OP, for the fact that your numbers are incorrect and have been pulled out of your anus in a rush.
No, my numbers are completely accurate. For the last week, everytime I've been PK'd, I see myself die in 3-4 hits.
My numbers are only off on the newbie requiring only 20, instead of somewhere closer to 25-40 hits. Because I take my base damage against a weak, armorless mob, and look at my own hp (which are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than a high level's) and see how many hits it takes me to kill myself.
That number is about 20.
The high level has
1) More HP
2) Armor, so I do even LESS damage than I do to naked mobs.
3) Can heal using MULTIPLE healing (magic, potions)
So it's WAYmore than 20
Anyone who says it's possible isn't a newbie and obviously has better skills than 1-40, better gear than rank 0, or is just lying bc their enemy was ALSO a newb and they just didnt know it.
BEWARE THE FANBOYS!!!
This game IS level based, to a very large extreme.
I think most people that play this game already know this going in but if they don't now they do:)
I really wish I knew, lol.
The game was SO fun at release. I only quit bc of [other] issues, and I just now returned to find out the game isn't the same in this regard
It sucks to buy a game solely just to PvP, and find out you have to work for a month before you can even play the game.
If you can't put in a measly month of effort to get your character up to a competitive level what are you doing playing mmos?
Honestly I think there are very few people left that understand what mmos should(IMO)/could be. And that is why the giant games list here looks the way it does.
No other MMO requires you to put in a month effort before you start having fun.
In WoW, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In EQ2, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In DAoC, PvP begins at level 24- NOT level 50.
In Darkfall, PvP (which is the entire game) begins after 1 month of grinding.
In WoW, EQ2, DAoC, WAR, AoC, and EVERY OTHER MMORPG- not only does PvP begin after 1 day worth of /play time, but there is MORE to the games than PvP.
In Darkfall, PvP is the reason and the only reason you play. Darkfall isn't known for its crafting or PvE- but it's amazing PvP, full loot (PvP), and SKill based system (PvP!)
So if you aren't PvPing in any other MMORPG, it's okay. You don't have to, the game is designed to be fun anyways.
If you aren't PvPing or heading off to PvP in Darkfall, you aren't having fun, because the game is designed to be entirely a PvP based game.
Yet DF requires 1 month of WORK before you PLAY? No other MMORPG requires that. Most MMORPGs require a few hours before you begin to PLAY, and the grind isn't so bad.
LOL this thread tastes of pure epic fail. At least its worth a good laugh!
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
I think most people that play this game already know this going in but if they don't now they do:)
I really wish I knew, lol.
The game was SO fun at release. I only quit bc of [other] issues, and I just now returned to find out the game isn't the same in this regard
It sucks to buy a game solely just to PvP, and find out you have to work for a month before you can even play the game.
If you can't put in a measly month of effort to get your character up to a competitive level what are you doing playing mmos?
Honestly I think there are very few people left that understand what mmos should(IMO)/could be. And that is why the giant games list here looks the way it does.
No other MMO requires you to put in a month effort before you start having fun.
In WoW, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In EQ2, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In DAoC, PvP begins at level 24- NOT level 50.
In Darkfall, PvP (which is the entire game) begins after 1 month of grinding.
In WoW, EQ2, DAoC, WAR, AoC, and EVERY OTHER MMORPG- not only does PvP begin after 1 day worth of /play time, but there is MORE to the games than PvP.
In Darkfall, PvP is the reason and the only reason you play. Darkfall isn't known for its crafting or PvE- but it's amazing PvP, full loot (PvP), and SKill based system (PvP!)
So if you aren't PvPing in any other MMORPG, it's okay. You don't have to, the game is designed to be fun anyways.
If you aren't PvPing or heading off to PvP in Darkfall, you aren't having fun, because the game is designed to be entirely a PvP based game.
Yet DF requires 1 month of WORK before you PLAY? No other MMORPG requires that. Most MMORPGs require a few hours before you begin to PLAY, and the grind isn't so bad.
Sounds like some serious QQ, someones been getting pwned a lot....
(whisks me back to my UO days of getting rolled in my own house!)
LOL this thread tastes of pure epic fail. At least its worth a good laugh!
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
Sry UO/DF = skill based, unless they actually ADD levels (do you even understand the concept of levels?) then they are SKILL BASED, SIMPLE.
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based. DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords. Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up. DUH
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based. DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords. Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up. DUH
DF/UO- You use your sword to gain an enemy and gain XP in combat, which then adds up to level you up.
LvL Based- You use your sword and ABILITIES (auto-attack doesnt do much) and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up.
The difference is ONLY in this:
DF/UO- You have to gain 70 levels in 2-4 abilities (wpn skill) to PvP
LvL Based- You have to gain 10 levels in 1 ability (level) to PvP.
They play almost identically, and skill based games are NOT that much different when it comes down to it.
The only difference is that you're limited to your weapon skill in DF/UO (Swords can't use Clubs if their Clubs at 1 and Swords at 100).
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based. DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords. Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up. DUH
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based. DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords. Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up. DUH
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
How is that logic, but mine is not?
Or is the reality behind lvl vs skill lvl too complex of logic for you?
I completely agree with the OP. What players need to realize is that sandbox games have levels but in a different sense. The skills are the levels. It is the same thing, just different. And then hardcore peeps go off and talk about how amazing sandbox game are when there are quite, not completely, similar to themepark. The only reason why I like sandbox more is because I can be anything I want to be, but the skill leveling is the same as regular leveling.
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based. DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords. Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up. DUH
DF/UO- You use your sword to gain an enemy and gain XP in combat, which then adds up to level you up.
LvL Based- You use your sword and ABILITIES (auto-attack doesnt do much) and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up.
The difference is ONLY in this:
DF/UO- You have to gain 70 levels in 2-4 abilities (wpn skill) to PvP
LvL Based- You have to gain 10 levels in 1 ability (level) to PvP.
They play almost identically, and skill based games are NOT that much different when it comes down to it.
The only difference is that you're limited to your weapon skill in DF/UO (Swords can't use Clubs if their Clubs at 1 and Swords at 100).
LOL this thread tastes of pure epic fail. At least its worth a good laugh!
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
Sry UO/DF = skill based, unless they actually ADD levels (do you even understand the concept of levels?) then they are SKILL BASED, SIMPLE.
Also... epic fail at reading comprehension.
In the OP, it's NOT saying DF is not skill based. It's saying it IS skill level based.
I completely agree with the OP. What players need to realize is that sandbox games have levels but in a different sense. The skills are the levels. It is the same thing, just different. And then hardcore peeps go off and talk about how amazing sandbox game are when there are quite, not completely, similar to themepark. The only reason why I like sandbox more is because I can be anything I want to be, but the skill leveling is the same as regular leveling.
Thank you.
I'm glad at least a few ppl are intelligent enough to understand the "complex logic" of how skill level just APPEARS to be different, but in actual gameplay is only slightly.
Darkfall's biggest claim pre-beta was that it was going to be more based on PLAYER SKILL than any other game. Spouting FPS style magic and archery. Sadly, this is opposite of true. Darkfall is perhaps one of the MOST level-based MMO's out there. What do I mean by level-based? In WoW, a level 60 can fight a level 30, and the level 30 cannot win.
In DAoC, a lvl 40 will one-hit a level 20, and the level 20 CANNOT even do a single damage to the 40.
In EQ2, a high level wins hands-down against a low level. In all level based, MMO's this is relatively true. Most of the time, the scales are tipped so drastically that anymore than a 5 level difference, and the higher level wins no matter what- save going LINKDEAD or AFK for 20 minutes. In Darkfall, there is no difference. In fact, it's even worse.
In Darkfall, there are no levels. But there are skill levels.
These skill levels play a huge role. Also, the higher your skills, the higher your stats have also raised. In Combat, there are only a set amount of skills that are actually in use. A weapon skill, defense, archery, and some stats. Once a weapon skill reaches [x] you unlock other weapon skills (Swords at 75, and you can unlock ability that gives +Sword Damage. Raise that skill, and you do more damage.)
The difference between a level based MMO like WoW/EQ and Darkfall? Here is the difference: MMO: LeveL = LeveL
Vauge Darkfall Example: LeveL = LeveL of Weapon Skill + LeveL of STR + Level of Archer / 3 That's a bad example to find out the "level" of Darkfall, but you understand what I am saying. Levels are levels, and having 100 skills only makes a small difference in the power of characters in MMO's. In UO, a 7xGM would be max level, completely destroying a newbie who has 1-50 in their skills. The newbie has no chance.
In Level-Based MMO, a max level would 1-hit the newbie. The newbie has no chance.
In Darkfall, characters with 60-100 skill 3-hit the newbie. The newbie has no chance.
Here is proof in DARKFALL that the game is entirely level-based until max level: Level 70ish skilled character vs Level 1-30 skilled newbie. Level 70: 3 hits to kill newbie.
Newbie: 20 hits to kill Level 70, if the Level 70 has the exact same hit points and never gained any AND the level 70 doesn't heal in ANY way. The level 70 could suck so bad that he gets hit 5 times per time he hits. The result? The newbie is dead, far before Level 70.
Player skill doesn't matter unless it's max level. To tip the scales even more, the Level 70 has more access to equipment, high-end weapons that do double the damage, healing potions, healing spells, and SIGNIFICANTLY more hitpoints, stamina, and mana.
Proof it is MORE level-based than other PvP MMO's: In WoW, WAR, DAoC, and EQ2- PvP is restricted to be within a level range. This level range is often in 10, but expected to be in the 5 range. WoW 10-19, DAoC 20-24, EQ2 5 range, WAR 1-11. This brings more balance. Although a low level will SURELY die by the max level in ALL of these games and often is dead in 1-3 hits and unable to even scratch top-level, most players don't play until mid-range. DAoC 22-24 mostly 24, WoW 15-19, WAR everyone is boosted to lvl 11, EQ2 players are ALWAYS in a set level range. In DF, anyone can attack anyone. This means that the balance that lets players have fair (possible) fights is gone. This means that for the newbie, unless fighting other newbies (which is often NOT the case) the newbie is going to be forced to run anytime any other character attacks them. Also, the newbie won't get away, as they have less stamina, no mount, and die in 3 hits.
Thus DF is more based on CHARACTER LEVEL than any other MMORPG. Other MMORPG's require more PLAYER SKILL, as in WoW a level 15 has a chance of beating a lvl 19. In DAoC a 23 has a chance to beat a 24. In EQ2, you CAN beat a player 5 levels higher than you.
1) This does NOT include max level. Once all players reach max level in ANY MMO, the entire game becomes balanced where PLAYER SKILL (and gear) matter the most, AND LEVEL IS IRRELEVANT!
me thinks i lost 50% of my braincells while reading that.
In the OP, it's NOT saying DF is not skill based. It's saying it IS skill level based. There is a WORLD of difference between
1) CHARACTER SKILL
2) PLAYER SKILL
Mildly off topic: Only one of which is a completely nebulous concept that for some reason MMO players seem to cling to like some sort of holy grail. Will someone make a FPS and call it an MMO and drag these people away from the genre already?
Comments
Swinging does not take skill. Hitting something takes skill.
Take magic or archery are you implying that it is trivial to hit someone strafing back and forth some distance away?
Unlike game mechanics where you "lock" onto an enemy in DF your ranged attacks only hit if the opponent is in the location when the spell/arrow makes it to that location. I think that qualifies as skill.
No, I don't plan to sub another month.
I'm bored, waiting on MO.
And you're way off.
I don't mind things taking time. Just because something requires an investment of time doesn't mean that it's tedious. What you do in that time is what is tedious.
In order to progress in DF, you have to achieve specific levels.
For example, in order to make a staff that is of any value, I have to get to something like level 25 alchemy. In order to do that I'll need to craft several hundred useless staves. I'm not talking about making a bunch of DIFFIRENT staves over the time it will take to get to the next level, I have to make THE SAME staff several hundred times. As a level 1 alchemist I saw only TWO thing I could make to increase my level.
Then I have to suply the materials to do this.
I need money for the tools that will eventually break, and mats to make the item. I can harvest THE SAME ROCK for hours on end, I can kill THE SAME MOB for hours on end to get the resources I need. I don't mind harvesting, I don't mind killing mobs, it's not the default action that is tedious. It's the VERY LIMITTED options that I have to achieve what I want to do.
In order to mine better, so that I can get more resources that I need faster, I need to get mining to 75.
Since I need both the iron and sulfar, gems and such that I get from mining (granted I don't need them at the moment, but eventually will, and therefore I hold onto them) I can't really afford to sell what I get, but I need money. I have to replace my pickaxe. I have to kill stuff. Currently, were I'm at, I know of 2 mobs I can kill, goblins and skeletons. Skeletons are risky because of thier location they're a bit of a hotspot for PK's to hit. Goblins are much safer cause I can get back to safety if need be. (because of my levels I can't compete with the PK's, I die in a fraction of the time it takes me to kill someone; expecially when they're shooting high end magic at me, and all I got is mana missile and eldritch (sp?) sphere)
In the last 3 weeks or so I've killed just over 200 goblins. I mean that literally, I looked in the journal. In that time I've aquired only one other attack, a spell that requires sulfar to cast, the same stuff I need to make staves. Lesser magic is my highest skill at 66, my harvests are in the 40's, and I might have my sword skill over 25, I haven't actually looked though.
Finding something tediious isn't the same as saying I want it now.
PS: Crafting in DF is EXACTLY LIKE WOW. I really don't know WTF you're on about.
WoW crafting is done in the exact same way as DF crafting. It uses the same level prerequesites and everything. Weaponsmiths can only craft X weapon at Y level, etc. But WoW allows you to craft a tone of stuff at any given level, within any given craft; DF doesn't.
I understand from where you are coming, but show me a MMORPG where you don't need to swallow that awful pill of daily grind.
Skill progression is much faster now, however from my personal point of view ( a person who have hardly any time to play ) it still is slow.
What can I advice you:
1. Take some available quests: darkfallinfo.wetpaint.com/page/Darkfall+Quests. Some of them have nice rewards.
2. Try to focus a bit on skills: go and kill goblins / kobolds / trolls / orcs / akathars / centuars etc whatever you can handle. Use bow and melee weapon or with spells and melee or whatever combination you want to level up. You will notice faster progression.
From what I have heard yesterday from a fellow clan member you need around 24 hours of strict melee fighting to reach the max level in it. Some people see it as acceptable, I don't, especially in a game where pvp have such a huge influence on all other content.
The grind is one of the main reasons why I may swap to Mortal Online if it will deliver, right now that game is much bigger mess then DF was in early beta. However if you have access to MO beta you can definitely appreciate much faster progression, meaningful stats ( STR, AGI, INT etc ) and faster resources gathering, the game design direction. What I can't stand is place holder pve ( I doubt they will ever make it as good as Darkfall's ), placeholders, placeholders...in general the early stage of development.
I resubbed DF about 3 weeks ago.
I have to agree with you and the OP, 100%
The grind and levels is killing me.
I wanted to make staves. In order to make then I need alchemy.
In order to get alchemy I need 25 wisdom. I only had 22.
Harvesting and crafting increase Wis. I fished, herbed, logged, mined for a couple hours every night for the past 4 days to get my wisdom up. In between I would fight some goblins to get the money I needed to buy the tools and skills so that I could eventually make staves.
My wisdom is now 25.something.
My lesser magic is now 66.+. I want to do mostly magic.
My harvesting skills are in the 40's. Low.
Alchemy is only like 14.
I can make a Rank 0 staff. It's not any better then what the goblins drop.
I have to use 2 sulfar to make one staff. No one wants to buy these staves, they're vendor trash. The NPC sells sulfar for 4g, that's expensive, don't buy from him. Players sell it much cheaper, I have to kill goblins a lot to get a healthy suply of gold for sulfar.
I mine for my sulfar.
In about an hour of mining I can get 12+ sulfar. I use 2 to make a staff.
I've made almost 30 staves. I have only 14 alchemy. I need 2 sulfar to make one staff. I have to mine for about an hour to get 12 more.
Lineage 2 was NEVER this tedious.
I hate grinding, op you right QQ. Man, if you hate grinding, get in a clan and stop working on crafting. work on your pvp skill and you will be done with it faster. Let your clanmates help you get full ekwip and in return, promess them that you will serve them as a pker or a pver. God damn. You hate to grind but you still work on the part to grind when you dont even need to do this.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Every MMO has grinding.
It's about how that grind is presented.
I could indeed just join a clan, but if what I want to do is craft then WTF would I join a clan and do PvP or PvE.
I want to craft stuff. If I wanted to PvE I wouldn't be crafting, if I wanted to do PvP, I wouldn't be crafting. Joining a clan and doing something other then what it is that I want to do doesn't solve the problem. It's ignoring it.
I said tedious.
This is pretty much my definition of MMO tedious.
I load up my bag with the resources I need to craft and raise my skill to craft the next thing.
I go to a station, click it, select the item, set the value of the number of items I want to craft to 100 and then I sit there, for about half an hour. I WATCH THE GAME PLAY ITSELF.
Harvesting.
I walk up to the node I click it, and I watch my guy harvest for about 15 min. Then I make him rest for about 3-5 minutes, then I click the node again and WATCH THE GAME PLAY ITSELF for another 15 min.
You can't justify the level grind in DF with do something else, when I'm doing what I already want to do.
Especially when there are other games that allow me to do what I want to do without tedious gameplay to grind levels.
MO's crafting isn't even fully implimented yet and it's actually fun. A skill sytem, with caps, and things like refining skills and the ability to mix resources and experiment with dif. combinations and quantities of mats, is going to make it great.
BTW, I don't really enjoy crafting in any game that much. I'm not much of a crafter, more explorer/ harvest/ pvper.
I'm bored and I was curious what does it take to really craft in DF.
I was comparing.
What he's going on about is that crafted items are the best items in DFO, unlike WoW where they're the retarded step-brother to raid/PvP loot. Yes, both have crafting, but crafting matters more in DFO.
I will agree with you that the number of items you can craft at lower levels is restricting though.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
What he's going on about is that crafted items are the best items in DFO, unlike WoW where they're the retarded step-brother to raid/PvP loot. Yes, both have crafting, but crafting matters more in DFO.
I will agree with you that the number of items you can craft at lower levels is restricting though.
I did get that.
What I said still aplies though. Honestly, and while yes some people are going to need to craft in order to do certian things, like boats, you don't need to craft. That is to say, if I don't want to I don't have to; someone else will.
I can treat crafting much like I treat wow crafting, and in fact normally I would. I'd level to max, and then start crafting as a means to supliment my character.
The only real dif. is the aquasition of items in game. The good stuff comes from crafters in DF, yes. However, I don't think that makes it any more spectacular or better then WoW's. Especially when you consider the number of endgame options you have.
How many dif. greataxes require 100 skill to craft? You're very limitted with what you can get thta is "the best", and I dont' think that because the only way to get it is from another player makes it better. Just dif. Yes, WoW raid gear is the same thing, only one of "the best". Don't forget though, people buy crafted stuff in WoW, and they pay to have things crafted.
In the end, crafting isn't any dif. then WoW.
To be fair to DF though.
I may only be able to craft a couple things at any given level, but I can learn all of the crafting skills that would allow me to make a bunch of stuff when combined.
False. DF is a skill LEVEL based game, which in essence plays out the same as a LEVEL based game- totally unbalanced high level vs low/med level.
No, my numbers are completely accurate. For the last week, everytime I've been PK'd, I see myself die in 3-4 hits.
My numbers are only off on the newbie requiring only 20, instead of somewhere closer to 25-40 hits. Because I take my base damage against a weak, armorless mob, and look at my own hp (which are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than a high level's) and see how many hits it takes me to kill myself.
That number is about 20.
The high level has
1) More HP
2) Armor, so I do even LESS damage than I do to naked mobs.
3) Can heal using MULTIPLE healing (magic, potions)
So it's WAYmore than 20
Anyone who says it's possible isn't a newbie and obviously has better skills than 1-40, better gear than rank 0, or is just lying bc their enemy was ALSO a newb and they just didnt know it.
BEWARE THE FANBOYS!!!
This game IS level based, to a very large extreme.
I am [ ] close to proving it via a youtube video.
LOL this thread tastes of pure epic fail.
At least its worth a good laugh!
I play all ghame
I really wish I knew, lol.
The game was SO fun at release. I only quit bc of [other] issues, and I just now returned to find out the game isn't the same in this regard
It sucks to buy a game solely just to PvP, and find out you have to work for a month before you can even play the game.
If you can't put in a measly month of effort to get your character up to a competitive level what are you doing playing mmos?
Honestly I think there are very few people left that understand what mmos should(IMO)/could be. And that is why the giant games list here looks the way it does.
No other MMO requires you to put in a month effort before you start having fun.
In WoW, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In EQ2, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In DAoC, PvP begins at level 24- NOT level 50.
In Darkfall, PvP (which is the entire game) begins after 1 month of grinding.
In WoW, EQ2, DAoC, WAR, AoC, and EVERY OTHER MMORPG- not only does PvP begin after 1 day worth of /play time, but there is MORE to the games than PvP.
In Darkfall, PvP is the reason and the only reason you play. Darkfall isn't known for its crafting or PvE- but it's amazing PvP, full loot (PvP), and SKill based system (PvP!)
So if you aren't PvPing in any other MMORPG, it's okay. You don't have to, the game is designed to be fun anyways.
If you aren't PvPing or heading off to PvP in Darkfall, you aren't having fun, because the game is designed to be entirely a PvP based game.
Yet DF requires 1 month of WORK before you PLAY? No other MMORPG requires that. Most MMORPGs require a few hours before you begin to PLAY, and the grind isn't so bad.
Ez non-complicated proof DF is SKILL based.
DF/UO - You use your sword on an enemy to gain skill in using swords.
Lvl Based - You use your sword on auto attack to kill the creature and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up.
DUH
I play all ghame
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
I really wish I knew, lol.
The game was SO fun at release. I only quit bc of [other] issues, and I just now returned to find out the game isn't the same in this regard
It sucks to buy a game solely just to PvP, and find out you have to work for a month before you can even play the game.
If you can't put in a measly month of effort to get your character up to a competitive level what are you doing playing mmos?
Honestly I think there are very few people left that understand what mmos should(IMO)/could be. And that is why the giant games list here looks the way it does.
No other MMO requires you to put in a month effort before you start having fun.
In WoW, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In EQ2, PvP begins at level 10- NOT level 60-80.
In DAoC, PvP begins at level 24- NOT level 50.
In Darkfall, PvP (which is the entire game) begins after 1 month of grinding.
In WoW, EQ2, DAoC, WAR, AoC, and EVERY OTHER MMORPG- not only does PvP begin after 1 day worth of /play time, but there is MORE to the games than PvP.
In Darkfall, PvP is the reason and the only reason you play. Darkfall isn't known for its crafting or PvE- but it's amazing PvP, full loot (PvP), and SKill based system (PvP!)
So if you aren't PvPing in any other MMORPG, it's okay. You don't have to, the game is designed to be fun anyways.
If you aren't PvPing or heading off to PvP in Darkfall, you aren't having fun, because the game is designed to be entirely a PvP based game.
Yet DF requires 1 month of WORK before you PLAY? No other MMORPG requires that. Most MMORPGs require a few hours before you begin to PLAY, and the grind isn't so bad.
Sounds like some serious QQ, someones been getting pwned a lot....
(whisks me back to my UO days of getting rolled in my own house!)
I play all ghame
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
Sry UO/DF = skill based, unless they actually ADD levels (do you even understand the concept of levels?) then they are SKILL BASED, SIMPLE.
I play all ghame
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
DF/UO- You use your sword to gain an enemy and gain XP in combat, which then adds up to level you up.
LvL Based- You use your sword and ABILITIES (auto-attack doesnt do much) and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up.
The difference is ONLY in this:
DF/UO- You have to gain 70 levels in 2-4 abilities (wpn skill) to PvP
LvL Based- You have to gain 10 levels in 1 ability (level) to PvP.
They play almost identically, and skill based games are NOT that much different when it comes down to it.
The only difference is that you're limited to your weapon skill in DF/UO (Swords can't use Clubs if their Clubs at 1 and Swords at 100).
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
:P
I play all ghame
Logic has no place in this thread ... please leave now!
How is that logic, but mine is not?
Or is the reality behind lvl vs skill lvl too complex of logic for you?
I completely agree with the OP. What players need to realize is that sandbox games have levels but in a different sense. The skills are the levels. It is the same thing, just different. And then hardcore peeps go off and talk about how amazing sandbox game are when there are quite, not completely, similar to themepark. The only reason why I like sandbox more is because I can be anything I want to be, but the skill leveling is the same as regular leveling.
DF/UO- You use your sword to gain an enemy and gain XP in combat, which then adds up to level you up.
LvL Based- You use your sword and ABILITIES (auto-attack doesnt do much) and gain XP, which then adds up to level you up.
The difference is ONLY in this:
DF/UO- You have to gain 70 levels in 2-4 abilities (wpn skill) to PvP
LvL Based- You have to gain 10 levels in 1 ability (level) to PvP.
They play almost identically, and skill based games are NOT that much different when it comes down to it.
The only difference is that you're limited to your weapon skill in DF/UO (Swords can't use Clubs if their Clubs at 1 and Swords at 100).
lol oh god how could i forget ABILITIES!
LOLOLOL
I play all ghame
If Epic Fail because you're laughing at the Darkfall Fanboys, then yes.
If Epic Fail because you don't believe DF is skill based and you ARE a Darkfall Fanboy, then no.
Wake up to reality. DF is one of the MOST level-based and one-sided MMORPG's out there. That doesnt make it a bad game, but you need to at least admit it. Each one of you that live in denial.
Sry UO/DF = skill based, unless they actually ADD levels (do you even understand the concept of levels?) then they are SKILL BASED, SIMPLE.
Also... epic fail at reading comprehension.
In the OP, it's NOT saying DF is not skill based. It's saying it IS skill level based.
There is a WORLD of difference between
1) CHARACTER SKILL
2) PLAYER SKILL
Thank you.
I'm glad at least a few ppl are intelligent enough to understand the "complex logic" of how skill level just APPEARS to be different, but in actual gameplay is only slightly.
me thinks i lost 50% of my braincells while reading that.
you just are not ready yet.
wtb training area/newbie island to mmorpg.com
Generation P
This is awesome, I cant wait to see what more crazy ^*%& the OP comes up with!
*big smile*
btw im a UO vet so I know a lil something about skill based games, and I dont play Darkfall so not a fanboy
I play all ghame
Mildly off topic: Only one of which is a completely nebulous concept that for some reason MMO players seem to cling to like some sort of holy grail. Will someone make a FPS and call it an MMO and drag these people away from the genre already?
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!