In UO, a 7xGM would be max level, completely destroying a newbie who has 1-50 in their skills. The newbie has no chance.
While I certainly respect your post, your statement about UO seems backwards. In UO, a 7x GM meant you had a much better chance of winning. However, it's always possible for the other opponent to beat them with enough skill. There are 7x GMs that can lose to 7x 50-skillers...although rare, it's possible. Even if it wasn't likely, I don't think it makes sense to include the pioneer game in the MMO "non-gear based, completely skill based" discussion.
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
The difference between a skill system and levels (in my opinion),
Skills (in DFO) = You can have 100 swords but it doesn't mean you're good at using them, your rigor and defense could still be shit and you don't necessarily have all the abilities. There are no set classes, when I see someone dressed in robes and healing someone I don't think he's a healer/mage. The truth is I have no idea of his weapon of choice or even if he fights or how skillful he may be.
100 swords means 100 swords, it doesn't mean he can beat someone who has 50 swords. Also there is twitch which factors in. Also I have no idea what skill level the guy has in swords unless he tells me.
Levels (Use AoC as an example) = I see what level he is because it's floating above his head! I can immediately asess wether I can win/lose or there's a chance of either. I can tell by armour/weapon what class he is, what abilities he's trained and how far he's got in them by the level. I know exactly what he's capable of and what damage his char can take and dish out.
In short with a level based game I know exactly what you're capable of on sight, as you do of me. Which results in the game being a race to max out your char.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I would love to see the OP in Shadowbane, or UO when it was released! Oh the whiiine! Look OP, its all good brotha or sista! If you dont like the skill based, sandbox, real PvP MMORPG's then dont play em! Go Arena it up in WoW with ur mad abilities or something, and leave us hardcore PvPers to our good games.
While I never played Shadowbane, I have played UO (it was my first MMO) and did very well in PvP back in the day.
That was over 10 years ago...
I'm not whining at all, only stating information.
Let me ask you two questions- one human being to another.
1) Why do you think stating information is whining, when it is very clear in huge letters in the OP that it's NOT badmouthing the fact Darkfall is level-based?
2) Did you even read the OP? Did you take time to read more than just the title and start spouting off?
I really don't believe you when you say that you're a UO veteran. If you were, you'd agree with me because you'd know how easy it is for a 7xGM to omgwtfpwn a newbie, and how the newbie had 0% chance of winning.
Why? Because UO veterans were newbies for only a fraction of a moment compared to the years they played UO if they truly are veterans and not just claiming the title out of vain-glory.
Honestly, if you played UO long enough ago and stuck around long enough to claim the "veteran" title, then you fought many people like me. They were the ones who used intelligence and wisdom to destroy you in PvP and take all your stuff.
Because honestly, if you fail to comprehend the simple fact that I never said it was bad nor whined about it, you would be smart enough to have sparred with those who were skilled enough to truly claim the title of "veteran".
If you don't believe me, I'll play you on ANY game. I'm confident I will beat you in a fair, or even tipped in your favor match.
In UO, a 7xGM would be max level, completely destroying a newbie who has 1-50 in their skills. The newbie has no chance.
While I certainly respect your post, your statement about UO seems backwards. In UO, a 7x GM meant you had a much better chance of winning. However, it's always possible for the other opponent to beat them with enough skill. There are 7x GMs that can lose to 7x 50-skillers...although rare, it's possible. Even if it wasn't likely, I don't think it makes sense to include the pioneer game in the MMO "non-gear based, completely skill based" discussion.
It's not backwards, but it was indeed rare.
I remember beating people with 70-80 in swords, and 30-40 in healing, and only 80 str and 60 dex.
But UO was a VERY different game. I could run and use my 80 hiding to disappear while I healed, then pop out and slam them. It was also more based on player-skill than Darkfall is.
In DF, there is no disappearing. No paralyzing. No invisible hiding. No super speeding around corners.
Players move slowly. Players run slowly in a HUGE world. There ARE rocks and trees to hide behind, which DO work and do wonders. But healing is incredibly slow and NOTHING like in UO. Rocks and trees can only be used to heal up for maybe 1-2 hits worth.
If you're a newbie, the rocks help you with 1/10th of a hits worth of healing. You can't escape. You can't heal. You can't hide.
The fact is that in UO, a player with 50 skill could kill a 7xGM in a few hits IF he didnt heal. That means IF the 7xGM was a crappy player. The 7xGM could kill the medium skilled player quicker, BUT not by a ratio of 3:20. Also, it's a lot easier to get your hands on a GM crafted katana or halberd in UO than it is to get a max level weapon in DF.
Darkfall is NOTHING like UO, and a 7xGM would DESTROY a newbie as long as the 7xGM didn't REALLY suck as a player. It's certainly possible for a newbie to win, but only based on player skill. Darkfall does NOT allow that. And in UO, only the worst of the worst 7xGM's would lose to a rank 50 player.
The arguement is still valid IMO because only the worst 7xGM would lose to the best 50 skill player. Even a poor 7xGM would still win against a good 50 skill. In UO, it was rare that a WORST would fight with the BEST. That's two players, both at the 10% range of player skill.
In DF, you'd have to go AFK as a high level to lose to newbie-medium skilled player.
After doing internal testing, skill is NOT the reason players do tons of damage.
I use a 2h rank 20 weapon and do 11-16 damage per hit, and that's a slow weapon.
A friend who has the same skill level using a 1h rank 20 weapon does 42 damage per hit, and that's a weapon with double the speed (2 hits per 1 mine)
So the friend does 84 damage while I do 11-16.
I have 36 (2h) greatsword, and he has 44 (1h) sword.
The sole reason for damage difference: Strength. He has 60+, I have 20.6
When I was killed in 3 hit, being damaged for 77 per hit, the person had a HUGE number of strength (much larger than 60) this would explain it as well.
This completely destroys everything I knew about darkfall, and is incredible evidence to SUPPORT the fact this is the most level-based MMO out there.
Your SKILL isn't very relevant for damage. It's almost all based on your STRENGTH.
Which means combat is based on ONE level: your strength level.
Generic MMORPG = (Level) Level Based
Darkfall = (Strength) Level Based
A character of 60 strength will decimate a character of 20 strength. 42 damage per hit, hitting twice as fast, means I die in 4 hits- while I can only hit twice, when I need to hit 15-20 times. That means the player would have to miss a total of 27-37 times while I miss 0 times, for me to win in combat with 25% health remaining. I would have to do an enourmous amount of damage to a player with high strength. And that's IF the player has the SAME skill level and weapon rank as me. If the player has better equipment or higher skill, I die in 3 hits.
You CANNOT tell me that a new/medium skilled player could beat a high level (strength) player when the new/medium would have to have 100% hit accuracy while at the same time dodge 27-37 attacks for 15-20 attacks. Even the best player (newbie/medium level 20 strength) vs the worst player (level 60 strength) would still lose to the worst lvl 60 player.
LOL 3 hits to kill a newb? Yeah mabye crits in the back.
It's so totally far-fetched that top tier spells will take off 1/3 of a new player's health. Or someone with full heavy armor and a gigantic axe running at you is perhaps a tad frightening, knowing he's going to catch you but you try to run anyway and are killed in 2 spells and one melee swing. This of course is coming from someone who barely had a few piece of chain armor/leather pieces, nothing fully completed.
But obviously it's far-fetched for a "newb" to be killed so easily.
Honestly, it's a level based game whether you're willing to admit it or not. You have SKILL levels, just not pre-defined character levels though those are apparent in terms of skill gap. The theory "A newb can compete with a veteran" is utter non-sense, though if anyone expected differently there would be no point in raising skills to begin with. It doesn't make the game bad, neccesarily.
in darkfall a level "20" can kill a lvl "100" by specializing
a lvl 100 in darkfall would be a guy with alot of schools maxed (magic , archery , melee)
now u as a new player just have to be good in 1 thing to win against this guy if ure archery is maxed out (takes like a week)
u can kill a guy that has played for 7 months , ofcourse it wont be easy becouse the guy will probably have better gear on him , better weapons , and some base stats higher , all that aside if ure good u can win as a new player vs an oldschool player (3 newbs can even take down top pvpers if they are good)
The OP is just wrong, or makes bad assumptions. Does anyone honestly think a player with 1 month xp should be able to defeat someone that's been working for 4 or 5 months in a fair fight? That's crazy. Skill overcomes a TON in Darkfall, but there's a limit to that if you want Darkfall to have any progression at all.
That 1 month old player can kill that 4-5 month player though, happens all the time in Darkfall.
He's also right on the 3 hit vs 20 hit, but that's not a bad thing. You CAN hit them, you can gang up and do damage and whether it takes 10 or 20 new players you can kill them, which isn't like other MMO's.
Given that you want an MMO with progression you can't get what you want. Go play Guild Wars in that game you can get to competitive in one Day. It's a fun game, great for banging around a bit, but it doesn't have the permanence of DF or another MMO.
explain to me, that myself when i was a total noob in darkfall, with only starter weapons, i got a highly geared/leveled opononent to +-2% of his total HP? i nearly got him while being a total undergeared underskilled noob, and he was using some really awesome gear and was high leveled too... ( i talked to him after battle ).
your spreading lies and you can't handle you got 3-SHOT in the back, go cry lies somewhere else.
All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.
Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.
Inherited Will, the Destiny of the Age, and the Dreams of its People. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be! - Gol D. Roger
Your post is one sided. You completely forgot that because the game isn't reliant on random dice rolls, that 1 or more new characters stand a chance against a higher level character by using player skill and the environment to their advantage. No way around it, you're points don't add up.
Sandbox games and themepark games are no different when it comes to power scale. A level 10 character will always get freaking owned against a level 40 character as will a player with sword skill 10 against sword skill 40. This was never a debate imo. The difference in the two types is all in character customization options not that newbs can kill high ranked players using the same skill.
The thing is, this really isn't the case in Darkfall, at least not nearly as much as you make it out to be. A "level 40" might own a "level 10" pretty reliably, but a level 35 has a decent shot to take out a 60. Good players can easily be competetive with a week-old character, most of what differentiates vets from newbies is just the learning curve.
If you can hit with your bow 51% of the time, even if you're doing 18s, you can outdamage the average high-character-skill player who hits 30% of the time with 30s, especially if you know how to use terrain to your advantage.
The OP's example is only true if the "low level" player is naked with only their starter weapon while the "high level" player is fully geared in armor and one of the best weapons in the game and is further able to consistantly get access to the low level player's back. This may seems reasonable to those unfamiliar with Darkfall, but realistically, good armor is pretty accessible if you know how to play/farm. If I were to start a new character, I could get myself a set of armor better than that which most people pvp in in under 3 hours for example.
If you were to even the playing field in this example, and say both players are using, for example, a starter polearm, and naked, then the theoretical level 70, with every skill in the game at 100, could 10-hit a brand new character, with all skills at 1 while it would take that brand new character 18 hits to do the same damage, defeating that advantage doesn't seem beyond plausibility to me.
explain to me, that myself when i was a total noob in darkfall, with only starter weapons, i got a highly geared/leveled opononent to +-2% of his total HP? i nearly got him while being a total undergeared underskilled noob, and he was using some really awesome gear and was high leveled too... ( i talked to him after battle ).
your spreading lies and you can't handle you got 3-SHOT in the back, go cry lies somewhere else.
I had a similar story as well: I was jumped by a red JUST after another one managed to stole my mount and I was completely out of stamina after chasing him. Mana to stamina and some food helped me to survive the beginning of the attack and next I used the terrain to hide and recover some health and stamina. Less then a few minutes later it was me who was standing over his dead body. We had a friendly chat after the fight, his melee skills and archery where twice as much as mine. It happened way before the Golden Age of Magic.
explain to me, that myself when i was a total noob in darkfall, with only starter weapons, i got a highly geared/leveled opononent to +-2% of his total HP? i nearly got him while being a total undergeared underskilled noob, and he was using some really awesome gear and was high leveled too... ( i talked to him after battle ).
your spreading lies and you can't handle you got 3-SHOT in the back, go cry lies somewhere else.
I had a similar story as well: I was jumped by a red JUST after another one managed to stole my mount and I was completely out of stamina after chasing him. Mana to stamina and some food helped me to survive the beginning of the attack and next I used the terrain to hide and recover some health and stamina. Less then a few minutes later it was me who was standing over his dead body. We had a friendly chat after the fight, his melee skills and archery where twice as much as mine. It happened way before the Golden Age of Magic.
Love all the anecdotal evidence trying to prove the OP wrong. How about some films to prove it or you are just all blowing smoke.
Either that or the game really is unbalanced and is in worse shape then it was when I quit this fiasco.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
I asked in game, and almost everyone universally agreed that it's no contest.
The higher level will destroy the newbie (or even medium skilled player) hands down, no competition at all.
Tons of comments such as "I bet I hit four times as hard as you with a STARTER WEAPON than you do with a rank 40 weapon." and "There is nothing to argue about. Weapon Mastery vs Low Skills = instant death for newb."
Also, epic fail on everyone who has replied "The OP is wrong, the higher level SHOULD destroy the newbies easily!"
1) You're agreeing with me...
2) I never said it's bad. Epic fail on reading comp 101.
I asked in game, and almost everyone universally agreed that it's no contest. The higher level will destroy the newbie (or even medium skilled player) hands down, no competition at all. Tons of comments such as "I bet I hit four times as hard as you with a STARTER WEAPON than you do with a rank 40 weapon." and "There is nothing to argue about. Weapon Mastery vs Low Skills = instant death for newb."
Also, epic fail on everyone who has replied "The OP is wrong, the higher level SHOULD destroy the newbies easily!" 1) You're agreeing with me... 2) I never said it's bad. Epic fail on reading comp 101.
Okay,
Now go back in and ask if 5 newer players could take down 1 mid to high skilled (level whatever you want to call it) player.
Then ask if 10 newer players could take down one 1 or 2 mid to high skilled (level whatever you want to call it) players.
Then why don't you get 10 newer players and find 1 or two mid to higher level ones and try it for yourself with some youtube vids.
After that,
Go to WoW, Aion or whatever level based game you and try that same experiment.
If the results are remotely the same then I guess you are correct. There isn't much difference.
I asked in game, and almost everyone universally agreed that it's no contest. The higher level will destroy the newbie (or even medium skilled player) hands down, no competition at all. Tons of comments such as "I bet I hit four times as hard as you with a STARTER WEAPON than you do with a rank 40 weapon." and "There is nothing to argue about. Weapon Mastery vs Low Skills = instant death for newb."
Also, epic fail on everyone who has replied "The OP is wrong, the higher level SHOULD destroy the newbies easily!" 1) You're agreeing with me... 2) I never said it's bad. Epic fail on reading comp 101.
Fine job sir, your in game survey has confirmed your suspicions. You are an epically powerful and attractive man.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
while it is correct grinded up characters do have a MAJOR advantage vs new characters. most the info in the original post is false or exaggerated. and the advantage is factional compared to most level based games out there.
you cannot honestly compare it to other mmo's like wow because low level characters can't hit higher level chars. so they stand absolute 0% chance of killing, killing them is impossible.
in darkfall hitting is not a roll of the dice. you and your aim with your mouse decides whether you hit not the game. its always possible therefore for a new character to kill a high character.
the difference is a new character with low skills and attributes has less hp stamina mana, takes slightly more damage and deals alot less damage.
this difference however again cannot be compared to wow without me laughing at you. in wow a new character hits like ~100 damage, where as end lvl characters hit for multiple thousands of damage. and have what over 10 times more hp?
in darkfall you start out with ~200 hp depending on race. the max hp is 450 even with buffs, that is the cap. do some simple maths and compare that please. even so very very few people have max hp most have about 300 hp, so only like 0.5 times more NOT 10 or 20 times more.
in terms of damage the difference having 0 weapon skill vs max weapon skill and max weapon skill mastery is not that huge. maybe double damage at max? strength attribute also makes a difference but even with maxed strength, which virtually no one has, along with maxed skill it can't be more than 4 times harder. probably more like 3 times harder.. which again is NOTHING like 50 times more in games like WoW.
to sum up all these differences do stack up and make it virtually impossible for a new character to kill a maxed stat character. but comparing it to games like WoW is completely unfounded, borderline retarded. firstly its always at least possible grab some friends and its very very possible because you can HIT even if less hard you can do damage. secondly pretty much nobody has a maxed stat character.
Darkfall dinged MMORPG´s genre to a whole new level.
i dont get whats so funny or clever about telling lies and then having ppl correct you. If you want to act like an idiot and tell lies about a game you don't play, ppl will naturally tell you what you were wrong about, you aren't fooling anyone. There nothing clever or funny about it unless you are under 12 maybe. These are just desperate attention seekers who think it is so fun to press a button in order to get a reaction. The most pathetic people on earth who spend their time "trolling" are really just pathetic attention cravers who can't get attention IRL because they are so pathetic. Its a viscious cycle, we should pity the trolls, they are the biggest losers IRL.
You should atleast give Darkfall a try
i dont think theres trials anywhere ,soo prolly you must buy it.
Comments
I would love to see the OP in Shadowbane, or UO when it was released! Oh the whiiine!
Look OP, its all good brotha or sista!
If you dont like the skill based, sandbox, real PvP MMORPG's then dont play em!
Go Arena it up in WoW with ur mad abilities or something, and leave us hardcore PvPers to our good games.
I play all ghame
While I certainly respect your post, your statement about UO seems backwards. In UO, a 7x GM meant you had a much better chance of winning. However, it's always possible for the other opponent to beat them with enough skill. There are 7x GMs that can lose to 7x 50-skillers...although rare, it's possible. Even if it wasn't likely, I don't think it makes sense to include the pioneer game in the MMO "non-gear based, completely skill based" discussion.
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
come on OP, we are waiting for your "logic"!!!! please!
I play all ghame
The difference between a skill system and levels (in my opinion),
Skills (in DFO) = You can have 100 swords but it doesn't mean you're good at using them, your rigor and defense could still be shit and you don't necessarily have all the abilities. There are no set classes, when I see someone dressed in robes and healing someone I don't think he's a healer/mage. The truth is I have no idea of his weapon of choice or even if he fights or how skillful he may be.
100 swords means 100 swords, it doesn't mean he can beat someone who has 50 swords. Also there is twitch which factors in. Also I have no idea what skill level the guy has in swords unless he tells me.
Levels (Use AoC as an example) = I see what level he is because it's floating above his head! I can immediately asess wether I can win/lose or there's a chance of either. I can tell by armour/weapon what class he is, what abilities he's trained and how far he's got in them by the level. I know exactly what he's capable of and what damage his char can take and dish out.
In short with a level based game I know exactly what you're capable of on sight, as you do of me. Which results in the game being a race to max out your char.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Sandbox games and themepark games are no different when it comes to power scale.
A level 10 character will always get freaking owned against a level 40 character as will a player with sword skill 10 against sword skill 40.
This was never a debate imo.
The difference in the two types is all in character customization options not that newbs can kill high ranked players using the same skill.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
While I never played Shadowbane, I have played UO (it was my first MMO) and did very well in PvP back in the day.
That was over 10 years ago...
I'm not whining at all, only stating information.
Let me ask you two questions- one human being to another.
1) Why do you think stating information is whining, when it is very clear in huge letters in the OP that it's NOT badmouthing the fact Darkfall is level-based?
2) Did you even read the OP? Did you take time to read more than just the title and start spouting off?
I really don't believe you when you say that you're a UO veteran. If you were, you'd agree with me because you'd know how easy it is for a 7xGM to omgwtfpwn a newbie, and how the newbie had 0% chance of winning.
Why? Because UO veterans were newbies for only a fraction of a moment compared to the years they played UO if they truly are veterans and not just claiming the title out of vain-glory.
Honestly, if you played UO long enough ago and stuck around long enough to claim the "veteran" title, then you fought many people like me. They were the ones who used intelligence and wisdom to destroy you in PvP and take all your stuff.
Because honestly, if you fail to comprehend the simple fact that I never said it was bad nor whined about it, you would be smart enough to have sparred with those who were skilled enough to truly claim the title of "veteran".
If you don't believe me, I'll play you on ANY game. I'm confident I will beat you in a fair, or even tipped in your favor match.
While I certainly respect your post, your statement about UO seems backwards. In UO, a 7x GM meant you had a much better chance of winning. However, it's always possible for the other opponent to beat them with enough skill. There are 7x GMs that can lose to 7x 50-skillers...although rare, it's possible. Even if it wasn't likely, I don't think it makes sense to include the pioneer game in the MMO "non-gear based, completely skill based" discussion.
It's not backwards, but it was indeed rare.
I remember beating people with 70-80 in swords, and 30-40 in healing, and only 80 str and 60 dex.
But UO was a VERY different game. I could run and use my 80 hiding to disappear while I healed, then pop out and slam them. It was also more based on player-skill than Darkfall is.
In DF, there is no disappearing. No paralyzing. No invisible hiding. No super speeding around corners.
Players move slowly. Players run slowly in a HUGE world. There ARE rocks and trees to hide behind, which DO work and do wonders. But healing is incredibly slow and NOTHING like in UO. Rocks and trees can only be used to heal up for maybe 1-2 hits worth.
If you're a newbie, the rocks help you with 1/10th of a hits worth of healing. You can't escape. You can't heal. You can't hide.
The fact is that in UO, a player with 50 skill could kill a 7xGM in a few hits IF he didnt heal. That means IF the 7xGM was a crappy player. The 7xGM could kill the medium skilled player quicker, BUT not by a ratio of 3:20. Also, it's a lot easier to get your hands on a GM crafted katana or halberd in UO than it is to get a max level weapon in DF.
Darkfall is NOTHING like UO, and a 7xGM would DESTROY a newbie as long as the 7xGM didn't REALLY suck as a player. It's certainly possible for a newbie to win, but only based on player skill. Darkfall does NOT allow that. And in UO, only the worst of the worst 7xGM's would lose to a rank 50 player.
The arguement is still valid IMO because only the worst 7xGM would lose to the best 50 skill player. Even a poor 7xGM would still win against a good 50 skill. In UO, it was rare that a WORST would fight with the BEST. That's two players, both at the 10% range of player skill.
In DF, you'd have to go AFK as a high level to lose to newbie-medium skilled player.
After doing internal testing, skill is NOT the reason players do tons of damage.
I use a 2h rank 20 weapon and do 11-16 damage per hit, and that's a slow weapon.
A friend who has the same skill level using a 1h rank 20 weapon does 42 damage per hit, and that's a weapon with double the speed (2 hits per 1 mine)
So the friend does 84 damage while I do 11-16.
I have 36 (2h) greatsword, and he has 44 (1h) sword.
The sole reason for damage difference: Strength. He has 60+, I have 20.6
When I was killed in 3 hit, being damaged for 77 per hit, the person had a HUGE number of strength (much larger than 60) this would explain it as well.
This completely destroys everything I knew about darkfall, and is incredible evidence to SUPPORT the fact this is the most level-based MMO out there.
Your SKILL isn't very relevant for damage. It's almost all based on your STRENGTH.
Which means combat is based on ONE level: your strength level.
Generic MMORPG = (Level) Level Based
Darkfall = (Strength) Level Based
A character of 60 strength will decimate a character of 20 strength. 42 damage per hit, hitting twice as fast, means I die in 4 hits- while I can only hit twice, when I need to hit 15-20 times. That means the player would have to miss a total of 27-37 times while I miss 0 times, for me to win in combat with 25% health remaining. I would have to do an enourmous amount of damage to a player with high strength. And that's IF the player has the SAME skill level and weapon rank as me. If the player has better equipment or higher skill, I die in 3 hits.
You CANNOT tell me that a new/medium skilled player could beat a high level (strength) player when the new/medium would have to have 100% hit accuracy while at the same time dodge 27-37 attacks for 15-20 attacks. Even the best player (newbie/medium level 20 strength) vs the worst player (level 60 strength) would still lose to the worst lvl 60 player.
LOL 3 hits to kill a newb?
Yeah mabye crits in the back.
It's so totally far-fetched that top tier spells will take off 1/3 of a new player's health. Or someone with full heavy armor and a gigantic axe running at you is perhaps a tad frightening, knowing he's going to catch you but you try to run anyway and are killed in 2 spells and one melee swing. This of course is coming from someone who barely had a few piece of chain armor/leather pieces, nothing fully completed.
But obviously it's far-fetched for a "newb" to be killed so easily.
Honestly, it's a level based game whether you're willing to admit it or not. You have SKILL levels, just not pre-defined character levels though those are apparent in terms of skill gap. The theory "A newb can compete with a veteran" is utter non-sense, though if anyone expected differently there would be no point in raising skills to begin with. It doesn't make the game bad, neccesarily.
It's so totally far-fetched that top tier spells will take off 1/3 of a new player's health.
This.
Now, to all the trolls, go away.
in darkfall a level "20" can kill a lvl "100" by specializing
a lvl 100 in darkfall would be a guy with alot of schools maxed (magic , archery , melee)
now u as a new player just have to be good in 1 thing to win against this guy if ure archery is maxed out (takes like a week)
u can kill a guy that has played for 7 months , ofcourse it wont be easy becouse the guy will probably have better gear on him , better weapons , and some base stats higher , all that aside if ure good u can win as a new player vs an oldschool player (3 newbs can even take down top pvpers if they are good)
The OP is just wrong, or makes bad assumptions. Does anyone honestly think a player with 1 month xp should be able to defeat someone that's been working for 4 or 5 months in a fair fight? That's crazy. Skill overcomes a TON in Darkfall, but there's a limit to that if you want Darkfall to have any progression at all.
That 1 month old player can kill that 4-5 month player though, happens all the time in Darkfall.
He's also right on the 3 hit vs 20 hit, but that's not a bad thing. You CAN hit them, you can gang up and do damage and whether it takes 10 or 20 new players you can kill them, which isn't like other MMO's.
Given that you want an MMO with progression you can't get what you want. Go play Guild Wars in that game you can get to competitive in one Day. It's a fun game, great for banging around a bit, but it doesn't have the permanence of DF or another MMO.
Asdar
explain to me, that myself when i was a total noob in darkfall, with only starter weapons, i got a highly geared/leveled opononent to +-2% of his total HP? i nearly got him while being a total undergeared underskilled noob, and he was using some really awesome gear and was high leveled too... ( i talked to him after battle
).
your spreading lies and you can't handle you got 3-SHOT in the back, go cry lies somewhere else.
All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.
Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.
Inherited Will, the Destiny of the Age, and the Dreams of its People. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be! - Gol D. Roger
Your post is one sided. You completely forgot that because the game isn't reliant on random dice rolls, that 1 or more new characters stand a chance against a higher level character by using player skill and the environment to their advantage. No way around it, you're points don't add up.
Darkfall Travelogues!
The thing is, this really isn't the case in Darkfall, at least not nearly as much as you make it out to be. A "level 40" might own a "level 10" pretty reliably, but a level 35 has a decent shot to take out a 60. Good players can easily be competetive with a week-old character, most of what differentiates vets from newbies is just the learning curve.
If you can hit with your bow 51% of the time, even if you're doing 18s, you can outdamage the average high-character-skill player who hits 30% of the time with 30s, especially if you know how to use terrain to your advantage.
The OP's example is only true if the "low level" player is naked with only their starter weapon while the "high level" player is fully geared in armor and one of the best weapons in the game and is further able to consistantly get access to the low level player's back. This may seems reasonable to those unfamiliar with Darkfall, but realistically, good armor is pretty accessible if you know how to play/farm. If I were to start a new character, I could get myself a set of armor better than that which most people pvp in in under 3 hours for example.
If you were to even the playing field in this example, and say both players are using, for example, a starter polearm, and naked, then the theoretical level 70, with every skill in the game at 100, could 10-hit a brand new character, with all skills at 1 while it would take that brand new character 18 hits to do the same damage, defeating that advantage doesn't seem beyond plausibility to me.
I had a similar story as well: I was jumped by a red JUST after another one managed to stole my mount and I was completely out of stamina after chasing him. Mana to stamina and some food helped me to survive the beginning of the attack and next I used the terrain to hide and recover some health and stamina. Less then a few minutes later it was me who was standing over his dead body. We had a friendly chat after the fight, his melee skills and archery where twice as much as mine. It happened way before the Golden Age of Magic.
I had a similar story as well: I was jumped by a red JUST after another one managed to stole my mount and I was completely out of stamina after chasing him. Mana to stamina and some food helped me to survive the beginning of the attack and next I used the terrain to hide and recover some health and stamina. Less then a few minutes later it was me who was standing over his dead body. We had a friendly chat after the fight, his melee skills and archery where twice as much as mine. It happened way before the Golden Age of Magic.
Love all the anecdotal evidence trying to prove the OP wrong. How about some films to prove it or you are just all blowing smoke.
Either that or the game really is unbalanced and is in worse shape then it was when I quit this fiasco.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
I asked in game, and almost everyone universally agreed that it's no contest.
The higher level will destroy the newbie (or even medium skilled player) hands down, no competition at all.
Tons of comments such as "I bet I hit four times as hard as you with a STARTER WEAPON than you do with a rank 40 weapon." and "There is nothing to argue about. Weapon Mastery vs Low Skills = instant death for newb."
Also, epic fail on everyone who has replied "The OP is wrong, the higher level SHOULD destroy the newbies easily!"
1) You're agreeing with me...
2) I never said it's bad. Epic fail on reading comp 101.
Okay,
Now go back in and ask if 5 newer players could take down 1 mid to high skilled (level whatever you want to call it) player.
Then ask if 10 newer players could take down one 1 or 2 mid to high skilled (level whatever you want to call it) players.
Then why don't you get 10 newer players and find 1 or two mid to higher level ones and try it for yourself with some youtube vids.
After that,
Go to WoW, Aion or whatever level based game you and try that same experiment.
If the results are remotely the same then I guess you are correct. There isn't much difference.
Fine job sir, your in game survey has confirmed your suspicions. You are an epically powerful and attractive man.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Darkfall dinged MMORPG´s genre to a whole new level.
Generation P
while it is correct grinded up characters do have a MAJOR advantage vs new characters. most the info in the original post is false or exaggerated. and the advantage is factional compared to most level based games out there.
you cannot honestly compare it to other mmo's like wow because low level characters can't hit higher level chars. so they stand absolute 0% chance of killing, killing them is impossible.
in darkfall hitting is not a roll of the dice. you and your aim with your mouse decides whether you hit not the game. its always possible therefore for a new character to kill a high character.
the difference is a new character with low skills and attributes has less hp stamina mana, takes slightly more damage and deals alot less damage.
this difference however again cannot be compared to wow without me laughing at you. in wow a new character hits like ~100 damage, where as end lvl characters hit for multiple thousands of damage. and have what over 10 times more hp?
in darkfall you start out with ~200 hp depending on race. the max hp is 450 even with buffs, that is the cap. do some simple maths and compare that please. even so very very few people have max hp most have about 300 hp, so only like 0.5 times more NOT 10 or 20 times more.
in terms of damage the difference having 0 weapon skill vs max weapon skill and max weapon skill mastery is not that huge. maybe double damage at max? strength attribute also makes a difference but even with maxed strength, which virtually no one has, along with maxed skill it can't be more than 4 times harder. probably more like 3 times harder.. which again is NOTHING like 50 times more in games like WoW.
to sum up all these differences do stack up and make it virtually impossible for a new character to kill a maxed stat character. but comparing it to games like WoW is completely unfounded, borderline retarded. firstly its always at least possible grab some friends and its very very possible because you can HIT even if less hard you can do damage. secondly pretty much nobody has a maxed stat character.
My blog:
i dont get whats so funny or clever about telling lies and then having ppl correct you. If you want to act like an idiot and tell lies about a game you don't play, ppl will naturally tell you what you were wrong about, you aren't fooling anyone. There nothing clever or funny about it unless you are under 12 maybe. These are just desperate attention seekers who think it is so fun to press a button in order to get a reaction. The most pathetic people on earth who spend their time "trolling" are really just pathetic attention cravers who can't get attention IRL because they are so pathetic. Its a viscious cycle, we should pity the trolls, they are the biggest losers IRL.
You should atleast give Darkfall a try
i dont think theres trials anywhere ,soo prolly you must buy it.
you can thank me ingame afterwards,if you want to
Generation P