I have not seen anyone ask to solo the whole game just give us more options. Multiplayer means in the the world at the same time not ruining around holding hands and picking flowers together. Grouping can be fun but I don't see how a game can be successful if the players spend most of their time looking for others so they can accomplish anything. Now outside of large pvp battles you will never convince me that raiding is for anything than giving me flashbacks of dealing with the criminally insane at the state prison i use to work at. though like i have stated numerous times I am just really jaded when it comes to raiding now.
Then you should read the OP posts and some of this soloer fanatic that doesn't want to group ever.
I never said a game must be forced grouping but surely some parts must be done while grouped else it would be boring for me.
But really scalable dungeons? c'mon soloing a boss just because you don't want to party? No one here said anything on big groups it can be a 5man who cares it's better then playing always alone what's the fun in that?
I hate it too when everything must be done while grouped but I don't want either that everything can be soloed too that's what makes some of the journey to cap in wow boring unless you want to do the lower dungeons and/or battlegrounds but since he doesn't want to group....
I can't understand that soloer fanatic that plays always alone and thinks he's grouped with others because he's in their guild but doing stuff alone... why not just play some free mmorpg or single player and popup msn or whatever you use to chat? you will get the same feeling apart of some wandering player running around yet you will never join him.
Guild wars and star wars the old republic must be your god's game then (Not referring to the quoting person but to the soloers that don't want to group ever) you can have npc partners and never worry on playing with other people other then chatting.
I think it's rather odd that you place the blame on the players, rather than the environment.
Thinking outside the box means examining the box as well.
Well that's because soloers now want to be rewarded the same as those that waste time trying to find a group to overcome some difficult tasks/enemies but they want to be able to do it alone.
Probably because they see the groups as unnecessary obstacles. Indeed in most cases, they are.
MMORPGs, despite being social places, aren't socially conducive for most. Sometimes it's inconvenient to deal with others, but you want to feel like you're part of something with those other people.
You can really only get that in a multiplayer game.
In my opinion, if you want to play solo, then why are you playing an MMORPG? The point of an MMORPG is that its a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game. MULTIPLAYER!!! Single player games are meant for just that. A SINGLE PLAYER! Sorry if I'm sounding a bit mean but seriously this is why MMORPGs were created.
You don't sound mean. You just have no clue. At all. Nowhere in the "MMORPG" there is any definition which says "grouping".
I wonder how many of these 'forced grouping' advocates go out of their way to help the poor chap who has been spamming LFG channel for past 30 mins? do they leave everything they are doing and rush to help the needy? i really doubt that.
I am playing LOTR and i am totally frustrated with the team missions and Book runs. Since its hard to find people because everyone is busy in Mirkwood or making raid groups for end game dungeons. As a result new players get screwed in the earlier maps. Yes more (group content' sounds all good but if not implemented smartly its nothing but source of frustration.
World Of Warcraft did it it smartly by introducing server cross over team play. Maybe games like LOTR take a clue and stop forcing players to spam LFG channel till their fingers bleed?
Funny how you say that about LOTRO. As we speak, I am too playing LOTRO, and having same problems. The group-fanatics here say it we would be "surprised how easy it is to find people to group with". Well, I asked several times after people to help me kill Hillmen. Not one single response. I will of course wait a few levels so I can solo them, but still, it says alot. People mind their own business. Even on RP servers in LOTRO.
I don't notice much difference between the community in WoW RP servers & LOTRO RP server. The main difference is that the channels have less spam. Well, HAD less spam; now everything is spammed in glogallff. Quite like the channesl in WoW.
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
The best part is the similar response i get from my guild and random people in chat channel .. 'skip the group content its not worth it'. And thats what i do.. skip it.
If you are going to make a MMO more solo friendly you have to make it more group friendly aswell or nobody will bother with the group content. Soloing kills grouping and alot of people doesnt seem to realise that.
As for LotrO, skirmishes is a big step in the right direction and in the next update the entire volume 1 epic quest line (book3-15) will be made so it scales to how many members are in the party and be soloable.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in,to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
Im not sure what game you guys are playing. Ive been doing the rep quests in Lothlorien and one in particular is very hard to solo. So, even though not grouped i manage to get it done with the help of someone else working the same quest and it seems someone is always there doing it when I get there. And yes I have stopped doing things to help not only Kin members but others as well. If I know a quest is hard and see someone attempting it ive even been known to stop and help without a request. I cant say what the population is like on other servers but Landroval is busy anytime im on.
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in,to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
Im not sure what game you guys are playing. Ive been doing the rep quests in Lothlorien and one in particular is very hard to solo. So, even though not grouped i manage to get it done with the help of someone else working the same quest and it seems someone is always there doing it when I get there. And yes I have stopped doing things to help not only Kin members but others as well. If I know a quest is hard and see someone attempting it ive even been known to stop and help without a request. I cant say what the population is like on other servers but Landroval is busy anytime im on.
I can assure you we are playing the same game. Only because everything is rosy and shiny in your world doesn't mean its same for all of us.
I am not against group content, infact i am in favour of smartly implemented group content.
I kinda agree with the OP. It is extremly annoying when your doing a quest chain of "explore this" and "kill 10 of x" only to get to the final quest in the chain where ya gotta be in a party AND everyone has to have the same quest to even reach the boss instance. It does take ages to form your crack pot group and its not like guildmates or anyone can help if they have already done the quest.. Maybe they designed it that way so high lvls can't farm the boss or something but it is definatly a horrible decision imo.
I remember in L2 getting a quest at 9 to kill some lvl 20 raid boss or something that required tons of people...I used to think that was the dumbest thing ever but after participating in those massive events in an open world where everyone could go regardless if they had the quest or not..Just so much better then now.
And you know no one is gonna wanna join your group if they aren't at the same part in the quest chain and the groups gonna disband after killing 3 guys. And now in games like Aion you get shafted xp wise just being in a group and it used to be that everyone in the group got quest items but now it's just the looter/killer... PUGs are painful in every possible way and it's designed into current games, guild or solo is the only way to go...
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
What these group-fanatics don't get into their small brains is that in an MMO that has forced-grouping there will be none interested in the game when majority of the gamers are end level. DDO is a perfect example of this, still these fogheads whine about that MMO's need be more solo hostile. Even it's quite obvious that solo-friendly MMO's made the genre so popular as it is today. Making forced-grouping MMO's is like going backwards in time. Well, I guess, som just dont get it even if it's shoved down their throats.
What some people fail to realize is the world is not black and white.
There are plenty of games out there that support both group and solo play, and do so quite well.
Supporting one mode of play by no means excludes a game from providing content for other modes of play. People who proclaim otherwise are in effect making the arguement that only their personal play style is valid and everyone else needs to adopt it.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
What these group-fanatics don't get into their small brains is that in an MMO that has forced-grouping there will be none interested in the game when majority of the gamers are end level. DDO is a perfect example of this, still these fogheads whine about that MMO's need be more solo hostile. Even it's quite obvious that solo-friendly MMO's made the genre so popular as it is today. Making forced-grouping MMO's is like going backwards in time. Well, I guess, som just dont get it even if it's shoved down their throats.
What some people fail to realize is the world is not black and white.
There are plenty of games out there that support both group and solo play, and do so quite well.
Supporting one mode of play by no means excludes a game from providing content for other modes of play. People who proclaim otherwise are in effect making the arguement that only their personal play style is valid and everyone else needs to adopt it.
What game-developers have realized, is that forced-grouping = MMO failure. You seem to belive something else. Fine for me. Live your life in denial.
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
Oh, you must be some super-popular faceroller then on your server which everyone wants to help? I guess you have some kinship members who lick your boots too?
If you are not able to see the similarities between WoW community and LOTRO, you are just a narrow minded fanboi living in denial.
And no, I am not interested in any Kinship. For reasons not told to you.
I just hate this constant "You Can't do this content because you don't have enough people". No let me play how I want to play with two of my friends and stop making play how I don't want to with giant groups of people I don't care for. If there are people that like raids or group instances with random people then fine but let me play with the amount of people I want to.
don't be selfish, it's for your own good !
You need to learn to group with strangers:)
/sarcasm
I guess the game design fails if what is intended as an encouragement to grouping ends up being a deterrent to it.
I for one appreciate that once in a long while a quest breaks my solo routine and forces me to group.
Anarchy Online Temple of three winds dungeon,its designed for team but you can solo it if you are good enough,no,easy,medium,harcore choices ,allways hardcore,atleast was.
TOTW, hardcore?
Old Everquest was more hardcore at lvl 5... which was utter noob lvl.
Originally posted by Aeroangel Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
Go get a reality check. Please.
Why should she show you any civility when you obviously show her non to begin with. Nothing you have written in this entire thread has been civil. She never once called anybody an idiot or a retard or used any derogatory terms to insult you or your play style yet you feel it proper to do so repeatedly. You need to pull that Holier than Thou stick out of your ass and learn to be civil yourself before you start throwing stones at others.
If this is how you act in game I don't blame the other guilds for not wanting you around or others wanting to help you. Why would I want to interact with a self righteous person who's only interest is "me" who also refuses to extend the same to others?
And yes we "group fanatics" as you label us are worried about how games are treating us. In an all solo game with everybody not interested in playing co-operatively who am I going to group with? However in a group game you're welcome to go solo all you want, you're not dependent on anybody else's participation. Over time all the group oriented games became solo friendly because of people like yourself complaining that you don't wish to have people get in the way of your fun and thus had the play style changed to suit your own and for some reason that's ok. As soon as we ask to have games made for us you go up in arms and bitch and complain about how you're being excluded from content. Don't play it. Simple as that, there are tons of other games out there made for you SPECIFICALLY! You like WoW? Good! Go play it. I won't and you don't see me going around in game spaming chat going "this should be more group friendly".
You obviously lack the ability to have a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling. I think the only thing preventing you from using blatant profanity is the rules on this site.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us groupers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all. I care less how you Solo-fanatics play your game. You solo-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we groupers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us groupers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Solo-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than groupers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats. Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "group-hating bandwagon" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Solo-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us groupers all the time. Go get a reality check. Please.
I'm a middle of the road kinda guy, and understand the social as well as mathematical backing for solo vs. group playstyles and rewards. But damn have your posts been entirely biased and flame-filled.
I fixed your message for you, substituting terms. Your last sentence is pure irony. You're probably one of the more guilty enthusiasts on these forums for having 'crossed a line' in decency of discussion.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
Go get a reality check. Please.
You still aren't comprehending what I am saying. I never said I wasn't fond of joining guilds. I have been a guild leader several times, and have always been in guilds.
I honestly don't understand why you are so offended by my suggestion to go to a single player game if you don't like grouping with people. If you like MMORPGs because you can chat with other people, well I've heard about like Oblivion having chat mods and such. Or maybe you are saying you want to be able to get to end game without having to interact with other people.
Either way I think it's ridiculous. I don't think people should be punished if they want to do *some* things on their own, but I think grouping should be encouraged and rewarded in more MMORPGs. If you aren't actually interacting with other people and doing things together what is the point??? Why should developers spend so much money to make an environment where multiple people can come together online if the experience is more like a SINGLE player game?
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
I will agree with the OP to some extent.He is right that a crafted economy would help the issue,and i also agree with others that stated why not have the content scale.There is two things however,to scale the content,it would have to be an instance,myself and many others cannot stand instances,it is a cheap form of content,one i don't agree with if the sole purpose is to create a scaled dungeon.
The second thing is ,i do not want to see a game totally dumb down it's content by turning a decent fight into a solo fight.You can NEVER have solo content in a multiplayer game,because to be fair to all solo players you have to make the kills easy enough for all classes,that can really make the content superficial cheap for some classes.
Example you want the tank who delivers no damage to be able to kill the mob,well to do that the damage he delivers has to be enough.So what happens when the high DPS player comes along?he smokes those mobs with zero effort,so you take away the content,the challenge and purpose of playing.The whole purpose of playing a certain game ,i would assume is to challenge what the game has to offer,if it offers no challenge,it is not a game anymore.
I would say going the 32 man raid is over board,and does nothing to add skill to the equation nor does it create a better challenge,all it does is create a mass quantity over quality.I would accept some possible way of scaling content to a minimum of 3 players,to a maximum of 6.The group maximum of 6 has proven to be the magic number,that is the reason it has been used by many a game,it just works.I never wan t to see a mulitplayer game designed for group play turned into a single player game,it's like turning baseball into hockey or football into tennis,it is wrong and ridiculous.
I think the problem that the OP is eluding to is a poorly designed game.How could you properly design a game,if your content varies from solo to group?The reason i say this is back to the same example i gave earlier,how could you make solo content viable for every class without making it too easy for another?You could NEVER balance it properly for solo play,and no a classless system is not the answer,that just makes a game cheaper yet,and is another topic altogether.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Then you should read the OP posts and some of this soloer fanatic that doesn't want to group ever.
I never said a game must be forced grouping but surely some parts must be done while grouped else it would be boring for me.
But really scalable dungeons? c'mon soloing a boss just because you don't want to party? No one here said anything on big groups it can be a 5man who cares it's better then playing always alone what's the fun in that?
I hate it too when everything must be done while grouped but I don't want either that everything can be soloed too that's what makes some of the journey to cap in wow boring unless you want to do the lower dungeons and/or battlegrounds but since he doesn't want to group....
I can't understand that soloer fanatic that plays always alone and thinks he's grouped with others because he's in their guild but doing stuff alone... why not just play some free mmorpg or single player and popup msn or whatever you use to chat? you will get the same feeling apart of some wandering player running around yet you will never join him.
Guild wars and star wars the old republic must be your god's game then (Not referring to the quoting person but to the soloers that don't want to group ever) you can have npc partners and never worry on playing with other people other then chatting.
I think it's rather odd that you place the blame on the players, rather than the environment.
Thinking outside the box means examining the box as well.
Well that's because soloers now want to be rewarded the same as those that waste time trying to find a group to overcome some difficult tasks/enemies but they want to be able to do it alone.
Probably because they see the groups as unnecessary obstacles. Indeed in most cases, they are.
MMORPGs, despite being social places, aren't socially conducive for most. Sometimes it's inconvenient to deal with others, but you want to feel like you're part of something with those other people.
You can really only get that in a multiplayer game.
You don't sound mean. You just have no clue. At all. Nowhere in the "MMORPG" there is any definition which says "grouping".
This only exist in you mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I wonder how many of these 'forced grouping' advocates go out of their way to help the poor chap who has been spamming LFG channel for past 30 mins? do they leave everything they are doing and rush to help the needy? i really doubt that.
I am playing LOTR and i am totally frustrated with the team missions and Book runs. Since its hard to find people because everyone is busy in Mirkwood or making raid groups for end game dungeons. As a result new players get screwed in the earlier maps. Yes more (group content' sounds all good but if not implemented smartly its nothing but source of frustration.
World Of Warcraft did it it smartly by introducing server cross over team play. Maybe games like LOTR take a clue and stop forcing players to spam LFG channel till their fingers bleed?
Funny how you say that about LOTRO. As we speak, I am too playing LOTRO, and having same problems. The group-fanatics here say it we would be "surprised how easy it is to find people to group with". Well, I asked several times after people to help me kill Hillmen. Not one single response. I will of course wait a few levels so I can solo them, but still, it says alot. People mind their own business. Even on RP servers in LOTRO.
I don't notice much difference between the community in WoW RP servers & LOTRO RP server. The main difference is that the channels have less spam. Well, HAD less spam; now everything is spammed in glogallff. Quite like the channesl in WoW.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
You folks who cant find a fellowship in LOTRO might try joining a Kinship. I saw two advertising for members just today. Oh, and ive played WOW as well as LOTRO and will say if you cannot tell a difference in communities the problem may be you and not the other players.
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
The best part is the similar response i get from my guild and random people in chat channel .. 'skip the group content its not worth it'. And thats what i do.. skip it.
If you are going to make a MMO more solo friendly you have to make it more group friendly aswell or nobody will bother with the group content. Soloing kills grouping and alot of people doesnt seem to realise that.
As for LotrO, skirmishes is a big step in the right direction and in the next update the entire volume 1 epic quest line (book3-15) will be made so it scales to how many members are in the party and be soloable.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in,to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
Im not sure what game you guys are playing. Ive been doing the rep quests in Lothlorien and one in particular is very hard to solo. So, even though not grouped i manage to get it done with the help of someone else working the same quest and it seems someone is always there doing it when I get there. And yes I have stopped doing things to help not only Kin members but others as well. If I know a quest is hard and see someone attempting it ive even been known to stop and help without a request. I cant say what the population is like on other servers but Landroval is busy anytime im on.
Yeah not the first time i came across someone like you who always point the finger and say 'hey its your fault'. I am in Kinship by the way but not all of us are lucky enough to get in,to active or large guilds. Moreover all my RL friends are not into MMO so its me depending upon random people in MMOs. Like i asked before, do you leave everything and rush to help those who need help? if no then it would be unrealistic of me to expect my guild members to do the same.
Im not sure what game you guys are playing. Ive been doing the rep quests in Lothlorien and one in particular is very hard to solo. So, even though not grouped i manage to get it done with the help of someone else working the same quest and it seems someone is always there doing it when I get there. And yes I have stopped doing things to help not only Kin members but others as well. If I know a quest is hard and see someone attempting it ive even been known to stop and help without a request. I cant say what the population is like on other servers but Landroval is busy anytime im on.
I can assure you we are playing the same game. Only because everything is rosy and shiny in your world doesn't mean its same for all of us.
I am not against group content, infact i am in favour of smartly implemented group content.
I kinda agree with the OP. It is extremly annoying when your doing a quest chain of "explore this" and "kill 10 of x" only to get to the final quest in the chain where ya gotta be in a party AND everyone has to have the same quest to even reach the boss instance. It does take ages to form your crack pot group and its not like guildmates or anyone can help if they have already done the quest.. Maybe they designed it that way so high lvls can't farm the boss or something but it is definatly a horrible decision imo.
I remember in L2 getting a quest at 9 to kill some lvl 20 raid boss or something that required tons of people...I used to think that was the dumbest thing ever but after participating in those massive events in an open world where everyone could go regardless if they had the quest or not..Just so much better then now.
And you know no one is gonna wanna join your group if they aren't at the same part in the quest chain and the groups gonna disband after killing 3 guys. And now in games like Aion you get shafted xp wise just being in a group and it used to be that everyone in the group got quest items but now it's just the looter/killer... PUGs are painful in every possible way and it's designed into current games, guild or solo is the only way to go...
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
Please go back to single player games if you want solo content. MMORPGs should be about socializing and interacting with the community. What is so bad about you and your two friends meeting some more people and going into a dungeon with them, or joining/creating a guild? If there's anything I'm sick of in today's MMORPGs it's feeling like I'm playing a single player game with a chat room.
When I first started playing there was actually a need for a group for exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. I made friends that lasted for years. The chances of that happening in today's MMOs are much slimmer because once I need other people for something we do it quickly and then we are both back to our single player game. I'll admit I have made pretty good friends from the chat room, but it's still not the same as having one or more friends always by your side as you all experience triumph, defeat, funny and sad moments, and just adventure and explore together.I agree that there should be some things you can do on your own, but I think it would be nice if more games had it where grouping was necessary (and rewarded instead of punished) for most things.
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
What some people fail to realize is the world is not black and white.
There are plenty of games out there that support both group and solo play, and do so quite well.
Supporting one mode of play by no means excludes a game from providing content for other modes of play. People who proclaim otherwise are in effect making the arguement that only their personal play style is valid and everyone else needs to adopt it.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
Go get a reality check. Please.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
What some people fail to realize is the world is not black and white.
There are plenty of games out there that support both group and solo play, and do so quite well.
Supporting one mode of play by no means excludes a game from providing content for other modes of play. People who proclaim otherwise are in effect making the arguement that only their personal play style is valid and everyone else needs to adopt it.
What game-developers have realized, is that forced-grouping = MMO failure. You seem to belive something else. Fine for me. Live your life in denial.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Oh, you must be some super-popular faceroller then on your server which everyone wants to help? I guess you have some kinship members who lick your boots too?
If you are not able to see the similarities between WoW community and LOTRO, you are just a narrow minded fanboi living in denial.
And no, I am not interested in any Kinship. For reasons not told to you.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
don't be selfish, it's for your own good !
You need to learn to group with strangers:)
/sarcasm
I guess the game design fails if what is intended as an encouragement to grouping ends up being a deterrent to it.
I for one appreciate that once in a long while a quest breaks my solo routine and forces me to group.
TOTW, hardcore?
Old Everquest was more hardcore at lvl 5... which was utter noob lvl.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
Go get a reality check. Please.
Why should she show you any civility when you obviously show her non to begin with. Nothing you have written in this entire thread has been civil. She never once called anybody an idiot or a retard or used any derogatory terms to insult you or your play style yet you feel it proper to do so repeatedly. You need to pull that Holier than Thou stick out of your ass and learn to be civil yourself before you start throwing stones at others.
If this is how you act in game I don't blame the other guilds for not wanting you around or others wanting to help you. Why would I want to interact with a self righteous person who's only interest is "me" who also refuses to extend the same to others?
And yes we "group fanatics" as you label us are worried about how games are treating us. In an all solo game with everybody not interested in playing co-operatively who am I going to group with? However in a group game you're welcome to go solo all you want, you're not dependent on anybody else's participation. Over time all the group oriented games became solo friendly because of people like yourself complaining that you don't wish to have people get in the way of your fun and thus had the play style changed to suit your own and for some reason that's ok. As soon as we ask to have games made for us you go up in arms and bitch and complain about how you're being excluded from content. Don't play it. Simple as that, there are tons of other games out there made for you SPECIFICALLY! You like WoW? Good! Go play it. I won't and you don't see me going around in game spaming chat going "this should be more group friendly".
You obviously lack the ability to have a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling. I think the only thing preventing you from using blatant profanity is the rules on this site.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I'm a middle of the road kinda guy, and understand the social as well as mathematical backing for solo vs. group playstyles and rewards. But damn have your posts been entirely biased and flame-filled.
I fixed your message for you, substituting terms. Your last sentence is pure irony. You're probably one of the more guilty enthusiasts on these forums for having 'crossed a line' in decency of discussion.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
GROUPING is not a necessity of MMO or covered by its definition. MMO can exist without forced group content. Everything else is just a matter of opinion.
Aaand my post was completely opinion, and I didn't even claim any of it as fact. +10 for comprehension? If you guys want a single player game with chat rooms that's fine. I prefer interacting with the community and having to work together as a team. I personally don't even think these single player games with chat rooms and options for multiplayer should even be in the same genre, but I digress. Don't get me wrong - I know that in most of these newer games I can still find a friend or two and do the "solo" stuff, and join a guild, and blah blah and trust me I do, but it's still not the same, because I guess it's not as challenging or rewarding anymore.
Your post was nothing but a rude suggestion about what us soloers should do. Its provocative and adds nothing but an invitation to a flamefest. If you want it civil, you better start acting civil. You really think we wanna hear these crap suggestions over and over again? I am sure it is quite near to harassment. At least, I am pretty fed up with all these idiots who "suggest" what I should play, like I am some kind of retard who cant judge by myself what I like or not. Dont you now try play "innocent", adding "it was just your opinion"; your suggestion makes your attitude not likeable. At all.
I care less how you Group-fanatics play your game. You group-fanatics though, seems MORE interested in how we soloers play our games, than your own gaming experience, funnily enough. Thats right, for who are you blaming ALL the time for the "bad state of MMO's"; us soloers! Over and over and over again. It is a constant gnall in our ears. You Group-fanatics are in the end nothing more than a bunch of sad sad people who aint getting no joy out of your MMO's until you are better rewarded than soloers. Talk about selfish & egocentric spoiled elitist leetbrats.
Let me tell this too; I am not too fond of joining any "guild" either. But that is probably a problem for your too...? Jeez, why dont you Group-fanatics start worry about how the game treats you instead of picking on us soloers all the time.
Go get a reality check. Please.
You still aren't comprehending what I am saying. I never said I wasn't fond of joining guilds. I have been a guild leader several times, and have always been in guilds.
I honestly don't understand why you are so offended by my suggestion to go to a single player game if you don't like grouping with people. If you like MMORPGs because you can chat with other people, well I've heard about like Oblivion having chat mods and such. Or maybe you are saying you want to be able to get to end game without having to interact with other people.
Either way I think it's ridiculous. I don't think people should be punished if they want to do *some* things on their own, but I think grouping should be encouraged and rewarded in more MMORPGs. If you aren't actually interacting with other people and doing things together what is the point??? Why should developers spend so much money to make an environment where multiple people can come together online if the experience is more like a SINGLE player game?
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
I will agree with the OP to some extent.He is right that a crafted economy would help the issue,and i also agree with others that stated why not have the content scale.There is two things however,to scale the content,it would have to be an instance,myself and many others cannot stand instances,it is a cheap form of content,one i don't agree with if the sole purpose is to create a scaled dungeon.
The second thing is ,i do not want to see a game totally dumb down it's content by turning a decent fight into a solo fight.You can NEVER have solo content in a multiplayer game,because to be fair to all solo players you have to make the kills easy enough for all classes,that can really make the content superficial cheap for some classes.
Example you want the tank who delivers no damage to be able to kill the mob,well to do that the damage he delivers has to be enough.So what happens when the high DPS player comes along?he smokes those mobs with zero effort,so you take away the content,the challenge and purpose of playing.The whole purpose of playing a certain game ,i would assume is to challenge what the game has to offer,if it offers no challenge,it is not a game anymore.
I would say going the 32 man raid is over board,and does nothing to add skill to the equation nor does it create a better challenge,all it does is create a mass quantity over quality.I would accept some possible way of scaling content to a minimum of 3 players,to a maximum of 6.The group maximum of 6 has proven to be the magic number,that is the reason it has been used by many a game,it just works.I never wan t to see a mulitplayer game designed for group play turned into a single player game,it's like turning baseball into hockey or football into tennis,it is wrong and ridiculous.
I think the problem that the OP is eluding to is a poorly designed game.How could you properly design a game,if your content varies from solo to group?The reason i say this is back to the same example i gave earlier,how could you make solo content viable for every class without making it too easy for another?You could NEVER balance it properly for solo play,and no a classless system is not the answer,that just makes a game cheaper yet,and is another topic altogether.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.