You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
But the person has a point that you seem to not get. You are a soloer....and MMORPGs are meant for groups...not for people to solo their way through. It is not groupers ruining the experience of MMORPGs for you but you that is ruining it for yourself by the mere fact of thinking you solo nearly everything in the game and are mad when you can't because you NEED a group. There is a point to some quests and some places where you need groups. Say you get to a big boss, you would need a tank, a healer, a dps, etc....and you are just a tank, what are you going to do now? Sometimes it is better to have multiples of each so that it would make it easier. You don't have to play Single Player games but come on...don't complain to people when you can't do something because you refuse to make "friends" for the short amount of time you are with them.
Show me one place where is says that MMORPG's are made or meant for groups! Show me one single place where it says it is like that MMORPG's "has" to be!
The rest of your post I refrain from replying to as it is only one more rude reply, filled (again) with insinuations, lame assumptions, "psychiatry" theories as well as out-of-dated view upon classes with "traditional roles". Dear god, if that is how it is being an "old schooler" I am happy to announce I have a modern view.
Stay inside your box, you would probably drop dead if you had a wake up call & reality check outside it.
The whole fact that even in single player games you got a group....says more than enough about MMORPGs...As MMOs grow and you can become a Tank/Healer, we'll be good but for now, most games don't put this in..though it would be great. A healer can tank to a certain point because they can heal themselves constantly and buff themselves.
And for the mere fact that a lot of quests say "[Party]" by them means you need a party unless you surpass the level needed for the quest and can solo it on your own. Do that if you don't want to party.
You have a narrow minded & old fashioned look upon MMO's. Guess what, MMO's are changing. Each day that goes they become more & more solo friendly. Hard to accept? If yes, go play DDO.
But the person has a point that you seem to not get. You are a soloer....and MMORPGs are meant for groups...not for people to solo their way through. It is not groupers ruining the experience of MMORPGs for you but you that is ruining it for yourself by the mere fact of thinking you solo nearly everything in the game and are mad when you can't because you NEED a group. There is a point to some quests and some places where you need groups. Say you get to a big boss, you would need a tank, a healer, a dps, etc....and you are just a tank, what are you going to do now? Sometimes it is better to have multiples of each so that it would make it easier. You don't have to play Single Player games but come on...don't complain to people when you can't do something because you refuse to make "friends" for the short amount of time you are with them.
Show me one place where is says that MMORPG's are made or meant for groups! Show me one single place where it says it is like that MMORPG's "has" to be!
The rest of your post I refrain from replying to as it is only one more rude reply, filled (again) with insinuations, lame assumptions, "psychiatry" theories as well as out-of-dated view upon classes with "traditional roles". Dear god, if that is how it is being an "old schooler" I am happy to announce I have a modern view.
Stay inside your box, you would probably drop dead if you had a wake up call & reality check outside it.
The whole fact that even in single player games you got a group....says more than enough about MMORPGs...As MMOs grow and you can become a Tank/Healer, we'll be good but for now, most games don't put this in..though it would be great. A healer can tank to a certain point because they can heal themselves constantly and buff themselves.
And for the mere fact that a lot of quests say "[Party]" by them means you need a party unless you surpass the level needed for the quest and can solo it on your own. Do that if you don't want to party.
You have a narrow minded & old fashioned look upon MMO's. Guess what, MMO's are changing. Each day that goes they become more & more solo friendly. Hard to accept? If yes, go play DDO.
/bearhug
I do happen to play DDO and I happen to play with groups, I'm a healer...so yeah....many instances call for groups in DDO...really, come on now. You have a better insult? And they aren't becoming solo friendly, they are becoming idiot friendly for people like you who hate people.
I hate how MMO's dont make enough content that can only be done by groups and every little piece of content can now be soloed and every piece of gear can be acquired by solo play.
Then grind to get to a higher level and do it yourself. It is not that hard and I have done it myself plenty of times...when my "friends" aren't on to help me...or I just do a quest with my fiance and be done with it. Either level or wait, that is the whole point. Sometimes the boss is just too hard for one person unless you are beyond the level needed for it.
Thankfully, I don't have to.
Your mentality is a declining one; reflected by the evolution of the genre towards embracing multiple playstyles and providing the player with more choice and variety. I don't have to do anything but enjoy the direction that the genre is heading in.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Then grind to get to a higher level and do it yourself. It is not that hard and I have done it myself plenty of times...when my "friends" aren't on to help me...or I just do a quest with my fiance and be done with it. Either level or wait, that is the whole point. Sometimes the boss is just too hard for one person unless you are beyond the level needed for it.
Thankfully, I don't have to.
Your mentality is a declining one; reflected by the evolution of the genre towards embracing multiple playstyles and providing the player with more choice and variety. I don't have to do anything but enjoy the direction that the genre is heading in.
Well, yes you can enjoy it with or without parties, that is the whole point....nothing is off limits to everyone but the OP says it is...it is not...games don't lock off anything as long as you know where to look and how to play. And the mere fact that someone is here throwing around DDO as if it were an insult...is nearly laughable..as I solo DDO and party when I want to.
You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
I have no problem with DDO. DDO is certainly a game I would never play, not even if I was paid to play it.
At my standards, DDO is truly non-appealing. Well, actually, it seems it barely appeals to anyone at all... LoL.
DDO = Epic fail.
Enough about that & back to topic.
What you clearly have missed is that we soloers are more after being just as rewarded as groupers, as being able to solo content (especially the Lore quest line). Personally I could care less about certain group quests ingame.
I have 2 demands for my money though;
1. Equally rewarded for my (solo)playstyle
2. Soloable Lore quest line.
Now get THAT in your head!
Soon I will probably leave LOTRO for just that my demands are not met; I will not get enough back from my money I pay Codemaster by playing LOTRO. When I cancel my subscription they will ask why I leave. I will then let them know reason why & to what game I go.
Plain & simple. No problems. Other for Codemasters who will be loosing some money.
Originally posted by Pryetta Well, yes you can enjoy it with or without parties, that is the whole point....nothing is off limits to everyone but the OP says it is...it is not...games don't lock off anything as long as you know where to look and how to play. And the mere fact that someone is here throwing around DDO as if it were an insult...is nearly laughable..as I solo DDO and party when I want to.
Some games do make it off limits though...
OP states how he isn't allowed in certain instances without a set amount of people and that is quite common in a decent amount of games.
Well, yes you can enjoy it with or without parties, that is the whole point....nothing is off limits to everyone but the OP says it is...it is not...games don't lock off anything as long as you know where to look and how to play. And the mere fact that someone is here throwing around DDO as if it were an insult...is nearly laughable..as I solo DDO and party when I want to.
Some stuff is still off limits. I don't mind so much; I'm just happy to have stuff to do, I don't have to be able to do absolutely everything. I'm fine with (for example) group/raid instances in WoW requiring groups because it's group content. I'd be happy if I could solo it via some sort of scaling mechanic, but that would just be a bonus for me.
My main issue is getting cockblocked halfway through soloable content and being forced to group or leave a chain incomplete. I like to see things through. (I'm one of those people who actually read the quest text) and it's a bugger to have to try and track down people to help out.
The DDO thing might be a throwback to when it was released.
The solo stuff was added post-launch. When it hit the shelves DDO only had group content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
I have no problem with DDO. DDO is certainly a game I would never play, not even if I was paid to play it.
At my standards, DDO is truly non-appealing. Well, actually, it seems it barely appeals to anyone at all... LoL.
DDO = Epic fail.
Enough about that & back to topic.
What you clearly have missed is that we soloers are more after being just as rewarded as groupers, as being able to solo content (especially the Lore quest line). Personally I could care less about certain group quests ingame.
I have 2 demands for my money though;
1. Equally rewarded for my (solo)playstyle
2. Soloable Lore quest line.
Now get THAT in your head!
Soon I will probably leave LOTRO for just that my demands are not met; I will not get enough back from my money I pay Codemaster by playing LOTRO. When I cancel my subscription they will ask why I leave. I will then let them know reason why & to what game I go.
Plain & simple. No problems. Other for Codemasters who will be loosing some money.
Ahhh you play LOTRO that is why you don't like DDO, now I understand...no need to go on with that one there.
Wait? When are solo players not rewarded the same as group players? You can't solo the Lore line? LOL, talking about LOTRO right???? I did...pretty darn easy too...then I went around and helped people who asked for it.
Codemasters does LOTRO? I go through Turbine...but I quit LOTRO about a year or two ago..I didn't find much enjoyment in LOTRO as I did DDO or other games I play.
I hate how MMO's dont make enough content that can only be done by groups and every little piece of content can now be soloed and every piece of gear can be acquired by solo play.
Here we have a good reply.
The person have a wish & demand for his MMO without picking on the soloers.
I have the oppsite demand for my MMO. I want it be solo friendly, and just as rewarding as for group-players. I wouldnt mind if it was even more rewarding...
Well, yes you can enjoy it with or without parties, that is the whole point....nothing is off limits to everyone but the OP says it is...it is not...games don't lock off anything as long as you know where to look and how to play. And the mere fact that someone is here throwing around DDO as if it were an insult...is nearly laughable..as I solo DDO and party when I want to.
Some stuff is still off limits. I don't mind so much; I'm just happy to have stuff to do, I don't have to be able to do absolutely everything. I'm fine with (for example) group/raid instances in WoW requiring groups because it's group content. I'd be happy if I could solo it via some sort of scaling mechanic, but that would just be a bonus for me.
My main issue is getting cockblocked halfway through soloable content and being forced to group or leave a chain incomplete. I like to see things through. (I'm one of those people who actually read the quest text) and it's a bugger to have to try and track down people to help out.
The DDO thing might be a throwback to when it was released.
The solo stuff was added post-launch. When it hit the shelves DDO only had group content.
I don't play WoW so I wouldn't know the limits it has on it..but I always see my sister in this huge like...10 group raid thing and I think that is amazingly annoying. Who the heck would want to party with 10 groups of 10 people each? Ugh...too many jerks talking at once on how to play it the way they want.
I usually go around and help people just for the heck of it....so I have no problem getting quests done plus I usually play a healer..so....everyone usually wants me. >< Which I hate....I play the healer for the solo ability.
I started playing DDO way after the launch actually...I admit that, I play it solo but get begged to play with my fiance...lol
The DDO thing might be a throwback to when it was released. The solo stuff was added post-launch. When it hit the shelves DDO only had group content.
I still like to belive it is like that. In fact, nothing anyone says about DDO will ever change my view upon that.
But I must say it is a lovely feeling when I hear that even DDO has become more solo friendly (even though I dont belive it is any solo friendly). DDO is after all, from my point of view, the epitome of a solo-hostile MMO!
I don't play WoW so I wouldn't know the limits it has on it..but I always see my sister in this huge like...10 group raid thing and I think that is amazingly annoying. Who the heck would want to party with 10 groups of 10 people each? Ugh...too many jerks talking at once on how to play it the way they want. I usually go around and help people just for the heck of it....so I have no problem getting quests done plus I usually play a healer..so....everyone usually wants me. >< Which I hate....I play the healer for the solo ability. I started playing DDO way after the launch actually...I admit that, I play it solo but get begged to play with my fiance...lol
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I don't play WoW so I wouldn't know the limits it has on it..but I always see my sister in this huge like...10 group raid thing and I think that is amazingly annoying. Who the heck would want to party with 10 groups of 10 people each? Ugh...too many jerks talking at once on how to play it the way they want. I usually go around and help people just for the heck of it....so I have no problem getting quests done plus I usually play a healer..so....everyone usually wants me. >< Which I hate....I play the healer for the solo ability. I started playing DDO way after the launch actually...I admit that, I play it solo but get begged to play with my fiance...lol
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
After reading this, why are you having so much problems with us soloers wanting Elite fights alone? You might be able to stand the face of 5 jerks, while I can't stand the face of even 1.
By adding a classless system, where you could re-spec you character, you could should & would have a totally different approach to instances & bosses as there is today.
I find it sad that everyone dies very quickly and is instantly revived by a "healer".
Healing should take so little or be so easy to do at all, and players shouldn't instantly die.
I find this healer thing to be a very boring and sad system, why can't they make a combat system which is more engaging and isn't just a tank, a healer and a lot of damage dealers for 5 minutes...
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
After reading this, why are you having so much problems with us soloers wanting Elite fights alone? You might be able to stand the face of 5 jerks, while I can't stand the face of even 1.
By adding a classless system, where you could re-spec you character, you could should & would have a totally different approach to instances & bosses as there is today.
I don't like the fact that you were complaining(not the whole complaining fact but the fact that you were being a jerk about it...I have this thing I HAVE to be one back...) and the DDO thing pissed me off...sorry...but I can't stand 5 jerks or even 1..I tell them to go f themselves and play the healer themselves, it usually shuts them up though. I rather have 5 AIs than 5 jerks...which is the reason why I like single player games as well. I get to be the AI...
I don't play WoW so I wouldn't know the limits it has on it..but I always see my sister in this huge like...10 group raid thing and I think that is amazingly annoying. Who the heck would want to party with 10 groups of 10 people each? Ugh...too many jerks talking at once on how to play it the way they want. I usually go around and help people just for the heck of it....so I have no problem getting quests done plus I usually play a healer..so....everyone usually wants me. >< Which I hate....I play the healer for the solo ability. I started playing DDO way after the launch actually...I admit that, I play it solo but get begged to play with my fiance...lol
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
WoW was at its best when the most epic dungeons like MC required 40 man teams who had to practice strategically to take down elite bosses. Now, because of ppl like the OP, games are getting worse in that regard. No one should be entitled to every piece of content in a game just because they hate to work for it or in groups. Rare items should be just that, rare. If only a few people have them, and they achieved it through large teams and teamwork, then great! that is a good thing.
I take it that you understand why I would like MMO's to be more solo friendly. I understand you like Grouped content, and I respect that. I am not against grouped-content, I just don't want grouped-playstyle to be more rewarding than playing an MMO solo, nor do I want to be forced into groups. Higher chances for fat loot when you group, but not excluding same gear for soloers, just lower chance to get it.
And no, you might dislike my statements here, that does'nt mean I am an evil SOB ingame. In fact, I have played healer since day 1 in my MMO's, which started with Anarchy Online release. For same reasons as you.
WoW was at its best when the most epic dungeons like MC required 40 man teams who had to practice strategically to take down elite bosses. Now, because of ppl like the OP, games are getting worse in that regard. No one should be entitled to every piece of content in a game just because they hate to work for it or in groups. Rare items should be just that, rare. If only a few people have them, and they achieved it through large teams and teamwork, then great! that is a good thing.
That's your opinion. I was there too, and I remember differently.
I remember the priest who was afk and on autofollow in MC for 2 hours before someone noticed. I remember the mage who bound the macro "/cast frost bolt" to his mousewheel and sat watching TV while "playing". I remember both of these players (and many more besides) being horrible to non-raiders because, ofc .. they were "noobs" and had crap gear.
40 man raiding was about having a few people in key raid positions that knew what they were doing. Everyone else was just along for the ride. And the epix, of course.
Highlight for emphasis; this thread is not about the loot.
If you read the OP again (assuming you read it to begin with) then you might notice that he's complaining about being denied access to contentbecause the game has a loot-centric design.
His complaint isn't about not getting loot. It's about not getting to see the content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
WoW was at its best when the most epic dungeons like MC required 40 man teams who had to practice strategically to take down elite bosses. Now, because of ppl like the OP, games are getting worse in that regard. No one should be entitled to every piece of content in a game just because they hate to work for it or in groups. Rare items should be just that, rare. If only a few people have them, and they achieved it through large teams and teamwork, then great! that is a good thing.
Your personal opinion. I think WoW is alot better now than pre-TBC. I think the masses who play WoW agree with me too. Of course there are few people like you who think otherwise, but that is how it is. No big deal. If you don't like WoW, well don't play it.
When you say its because of people like OP that MMO's are getting worse, you are way out of line. Pure rambling. There exist nothing that backs your statement up. Quite the opposite. So you are purely talking utterly nonsense. WoW had around 2 million customers pre-tbc, now 12 million people are playing it. Still you manage to puke up something meaningless like that.
I would rather say it is like because of people like OP MMOgenre became better. Plain & simple. There are no room for elitist jerks in MMO world anymore, so go cry some more. You have been bereft of your powers. Tears from people like you are excellent polish for my Paladin's armor.
I am not against grouped-content, I just don't want grouped-playstyle to be more rewarding than playing an MMO solo, nor do I want to be forced into groups. Higher chances for fat loot when you group, but not excluding same gear for soloers, just lower chance to get it.
Please, chrisel, for your sake, find yourself a friend that you respect who has a solid background in statistics. Have him explain to you the concept of how a group of individuals operating in tandem is worth more than the sum of their parts, always. It has been exposed elsewhere on these forums but apparently you either missed it or you are not perceptive to this medium. But find that friend.
Now examine how rewards are handed out. If you reward the challenge, then in all cases a group will garner bigger individual gains because of the modifier that a group entails. If you reward simply the number of people, then you in effect abolish the group dynamic.
For this reason a soloer cannot expect to be equally paid than a grouper. There is a delta that cannot be argued against. If you do remove this delta, you in effect obliterate all benefits of group play. This, could be easily seen as selfish on the behalf of the soloer if such an equalizer were considered. The grouper wants his just reward, the soloer should want his as well. But it isn't on par. Time is a separate variable, and please do not attempt to blend the two once you have been graced with the individual/cooperation mechanic's understanding.
It's pure math, dude. It's pure math.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
I'm not sure what games the people saying it take forever to find a group play. Sure once in a while it may take longer to find a group, it also depends what time of the day it is. But, I think most people rely too much on the LFG chat. Here's what I do if LFG chat isn't biting. Open up the search window and send whispers to people asking them to join your group, it's that simple really. Usually end up with a group in no time.
Comments
You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
Show me one place where is says that MMORPG's are made or meant for groups! Show me one single place where it says it is like that MMORPG's "has" to be!
The rest of your post I refrain from replying to as it is only one more rude reply, filled (again) with insinuations, lame assumptions, "psychiatry" theories as well as out-of-dated view upon classes with "traditional roles". Dear god, if that is how it is being an "old schooler" I am happy to announce I have a modern view.
Stay inside your box, you would probably drop dead if you had a wake up call & reality check outside it.
The whole fact that even in single player games you got a group....says more than enough about MMORPGs...As MMOs grow and you can become a Tank/Healer, we'll be good but for now, most games don't put this in..though it would be great. A healer can tank to a certain point because they can heal themselves constantly and buff themselves.
And for the mere fact that a lot of quests say "[Party]" by them means you need a party unless you surpass the level needed for the quest and can solo it on your own. Do that if you don't want to party.
You have a narrow minded & old fashioned look upon MMO's. Guess what, MMO's are changing. Each day that goes they become more & more solo friendly. Hard to accept? If yes, go play DDO.
/bearhug
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Show me one place where is says that MMORPG's are made or meant for groups! Show me one single place where it says it is like that MMORPG's "has" to be!
The rest of your post I refrain from replying to as it is only one more rude reply, filled (again) with insinuations, lame assumptions, "psychiatry" theories as well as out-of-dated view upon classes with "traditional roles". Dear god, if that is how it is being an "old schooler" I am happy to announce I have a modern view.
Stay inside your box, you would probably drop dead if you had a wake up call & reality check outside it.
The whole fact that even in single player games you got a group....says more than enough about MMORPGs...As MMOs grow and you can become a Tank/Healer, we'll be good but for now, most games don't put this in..though it would be great. A healer can tank to a certain point because they can heal themselves constantly and buff themselves.
And for the mere fact that a lot of quests say "[Party]" by them means you need a party unless you surpass the level needed for the quest and can solo it on your own. Do that if you don't want to party.
You have a narrow minded & old fashioned look upon MMO's. Guess what, MMO's are changing. Each day that goes they become more & more solo friendly. Hard to accept? If yes, go play DDO.
/bearhug
I do happen to play DDO and I happen to play with groups, I'm a healer...so yeah....many instances call for groups in DDO...really, come on now. You have a better insult? And they aren't becoming solo friendly, they are becoming idiot friendly for people like you who hate people.
Edit: Oh yeah.....I solo DDO...as well, what now?
I hate how MMO's dont make enough content that can only be done by groups and every little piece of content can now be soloed and every piece of gear can be acquired by solo play.
Thankfully, I don't have to.
Your mentality is a declining one; reflected by the evolution of the genre towards embracing multiple playstyles and providing the player with more choice and variety. I don't have to do anything but enjoy the direction that the genre is heading in.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Thankfully, I don't have to.
Your mentality is a declining one; reflected by the evolution of the genre towards embracing multiple playstyles and providing the player with more choice and variety. I don't have to do anything but enjoy the direction that the genre is heading in.
Well, yes you can enjoy it with or without parties, that is the whole point....nothing is off limits to everyone but the OP says it is...it is not...games don't lock off anything as long as you know where to look and how to play. And the mere fact that someone is here throwing around DDO as if it were an insult...is nearly laughable..as I solo DDO and party when I want to.
You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
I have no problem with DDO. DDO is certainly a game I would never play, not even if I was paid to play it.
At my standards, DDO is truly non-appealing. Well, actually, it seems it barely appeals to anyone at all... LoL.
DDO = Epic fail.
Enough about that & back to topic.
What you clearly have missed is that we soloers are more after being just as rewarded as groupers, as being able to solo content (especially the Lore quest line). Personally I could care less about certain group quests ingame.
I have 2 demands for my money though;
1. Equally rewarded for my (solo)playstyle
2. Soloable Lore quest line.
Now get THAT in your head!
Soon I will probably leave LOTRO for just that my demands are not met; I will not get enough back from my money I pay Codemaster by playing LOTRO. When I cancel my subscription they will ask why I leave. I will then let them know reason why & to what game I go.
Plain & simple. No problems. Other for Codemasters who will be loosing some money.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Some games do make it off limits though...
OP states how he isn't allowed in certain instances without a set amount of people and that is quite common in a decent amount of games.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
Some stuff is still off limits. I don't mind so much; I'm just happy to have stuff to do, I don't have to be able to do absolutely everything. I'm fine with (for example) group/raid instances in WoW requiring groups because it's group content. I'd be happy if I could solo it via some sort of scaling mechanic, but that would just be a bonus for me.
My main issue is getting cockblocked halfway through soloable content and being forced to group or leave a chain incomplete. I like to see things through. (I'm one of those people who actually read the quest text) and it's a bugger to have to try and track down people to help out.
The DDO thing might be a throwback to when it was released.
The solo stuff was added post-launch. When it hit the shelves DDO only had group content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You, my friend, are aiding in the decline of the MMO...
They were never made to be single player games...if you want that, play Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Risen, Sacred, Dragon Age, etc....
MMOs are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, and were meant to be played with MANY PLAYERS... it is supposed to be ALL about grouping and being social...
...but because of players like you, devs are making MMOs solo friendly, and the communities are dying because gamers like you are hiding away within your solo instances and the like...
No.
MMO genre is as healthy as never before. You are rambling.
Go play DDO.
I play DDO, what is your problem with DDO??? And no, it is not healthy with people like you who think that soloing is better, it makes the community as horrible as crap truly because you think you are better and know more than anyone else. It sickens me when people sit here and complain about grouping. Either grind to surpass the level or find people. Easy as that. It is not like the devs are twisting your arm saying "DO IT NOW! GROUP NOW" you DON'T HAVE TO...get it through your head.
I have no problem with DDO. DDO is certainly a game I would never play, not even if I was paid to play it.
At my standards, DDO is truly non-appealing. Well, actually, it seems it barely appeals to anyone at all... LoL.
DDO = Epic fail.
Enough about that & back to topic.
What you clearly have missed is that we soloers are more after being just as rewarded as groupers, as being able to solo content (especially the Lore quest line). Personally I could care less about certain group quests ingame.
I have 2 demands for my money though;
1. Equally rewarded for my (solo)playstyle
2. Soloable Lore quest line.
Now get THAT in your head!
Soon I will probably leave LOTRO for just that my demands are not met; I will not get enough back from my money I pay Codemaster by playing LOTRO. When I cancel my subscription they will ask why I leave. I will then let them know reason why & to what game I go.
Plain & simple. No problems. Other for Codemasters who will be loosing some money.
Ahhh you play LOTRO that is why you don't like DDO, now I understand...no need to go on with that one there.
Wait? When are solo players not rewarded the same as group players? You can't solo the Lore line? LOL, talking about LOTRO right???? I did...pretty darn easy too...then I went around and helped people who asked for it.
Codemasters does LOTRO? I go through Turbine...but I quit LOTRO about a year or two ago..I didn't find much enjoyment in LOTRO as I did DDO or other games I play.
Here we have a good reply.
The person have a wish & demand for his MMO without picking on the soloers.
I have the oppsite demand for my MMO. I want it be solo friendly, and just as rewarding as for group-players. I wouldnt mind if it was even more rewarding...
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Some stuff is still off limits. I don't mind so much; I'm just happy to have stuff to do, I don't have to be able to do absolutely everything. I'm fine with (for example) group/raid instances in WoW requiring groups because it's group content. I'd be happy if I could solo it via some sort of scaling mechanic, but that would just be a bonus for me.
My main issue is getting cockblocked halfway through soloable content and being forced to group or leave a chain incomplete. I like to see things through. (I'm one of those people who actually read the quest text) and it's a bugger to have to try and track down people to help out.
The DDO thing might be a throwback to when it was released.
The solo stuff was added post-launch. When it hit the shelves DDO only had group content.
I don't play WoW so I wouldn't know the limits it has on it..but I always see my sister in this huge like...10 group raid thing and I think that is amazingly annoying. Who the heck would want to party with 10 groups of 10 people each? Ugh...too many jerks talking at once on how to play it the way they want.
I usually go around and help people just for the heck of it....so I have no problem getting quests done plus I usually play a healer..so....everyone usually wants me. >< Which I hate....I play the healer for the solo ability.
I started playing DDO way after the launch actually...I admit that, I play it solo but get begged to play with my fiance...lol
I still like to belive it is like that. In fact, nothing anyone says about DDO will ever change my view upon that.
But I must say it is a lovely feeling when I hear that even DDO has become more solo friendly (even though I dont belive it is any solo friendly). DDO is after all, from my point of view, the epitome of a solo-hostile MMO!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
After reading this, why are you having so much problems with us soloers wanting Elite fights alone? You might be able to stand the face of 5 jerks, while I can't stand the face of even 1.
By adding a classless system, where you could re-spec you character, you could should & would have a totally different approach to instances & bosses as there is today.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I find it sad that everyone dies very quickly and is instantly revived by a "healer".
Healing should take so little or be so easy to do at all, and players shouldn't instantly die.
I find this healer thing to be a very boring and sad system, why can't they make a combat system which is more engaging and isn't just a tank, a healer and a lot of damage dealers for 5 minutes...
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
I still think that is too many jerks trying to say what is the best way to beat this or that boss. Especially if you are a healer or DPS..they tell you exactly what to do. "Heal this person" or "Do this" and if you don't heal or do something fast enough you are a noob and you suck. I remember playing a game (happen to be S.U.N) and I had run through a group thing with a bunch of other people...all the other healer types did not have revive, just me. Made me sad that everyone depended on me.
After reading this, why are you having so much problems with us soloers wanting Elite fights alone? You might be able to stand the face of 5 jerks, while I can't stand the face of even 1.
By adding a classless system, where you could re-spec you character, you could should & would have a totally different approach to instances & bosses as there is today.
I don't like the fact that you were complaining(not the whole complaining fact but the fact that you were being a jerk about it...I have this thing I HAVE to be one back...) and the DDO thing pissed me off...sorry...but I can't stand 5 jerks or even 1..I tell them to go f themselves and play the healer themselves, it usually shuts them up though. I rather have 5 AIs than 5 jerks...which is the reason why I like single player games as well. I get to be the AI...
Yeah, that's a 10 man raid group.
If you think that's annoying, something to think about .. back in the early days, the only raiding in WoW required 40 people. They reduced it a few years ago so that raiding could be done by 10 people or 25 people and the instance scaled accordingly in difficulty and reward.
That's one example of how the genre is evolving.
WoW was at its best when the most epic dungeons like MC required 40 man teams who had to practice strategically to take down elite bosses. Now, because of ppl like the OP, games are getting worse in that regard. No one should be entitled to every piece of content in a game just because they hate to work for it or in groups. Rare items should be just that, rare. If only a few people have them, and they achieved it through large teams and teamwork, then great! that is a good thing.
group oriented MMOs will die cause no one wants to spend half their day finding a group
people have lives now
I take it that you understand why I would like MMO's to be more solo friendly. I understand you like Grouped content, and I respect that. I am not against grouped-content, I just don't want grouped-playstyle to be more rewarding than playing an MMO solo, nor do I want to be forced into groups. Higher chances for fat loot when you group, but not excluding same gear for soloers, just lower chance to get it.
And no, you might dislike my statements here, that does'nt mean I am an evil SOB ingame. In fact, I have played healer since day 1 in my MMO's, which started with Anarchy Online release. For same reasons as you.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
That's your opinion. I was there too, and I remember differently.
I remember the priest who was afk and on autofollow in MC for 2 hours before someone noticed. I remember the mage who bound the macro "/cast frost bolt" to his mousewheel and sat watching TV while "playing". I remember both of these players (and many more besides) being horrible to non-raiders because, ofc .. they were "noobs" and had crap gear.
40 man raiding was about having a few people in key raid positions that knew what they were doing. Everyone else was just along for the ride. And the epix, of course.
Highlight for emphasis; this thread is not about the loot.
If you read the OP again (assuming you read it to begin with) then you might notice that he's complaining about being denied access to content because the game has a loot-centric design.
His complaint isn't about not getting loot. It's about not getting to see the content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
WoW was at its best when the most epic dungeons like MC required 40 man teams who had to practice strategically to take down elite bosses. Now, because of ppl like the OP, games are getting worse in that regard. No one should be entitled to every piece of content in a game just because they hate to work for it or in groups. Rare items should be just that, rare. If only a few people have them, and they achieved it through large teams and teamwork, then great! that is a good thing.
Your personal opinion. I think WoW is alot better now than pre-TBC. I think the masses who play WoW agree with me too. Of course there are few people like you who think otherwise, but that is how it is. No big deal. If you don't like WoW, well don't play it.
When you say its because of people like OP that MMO's are getting worse, you are way out of line. Pure rambling. There exist nothing that backs your statement up. Quite the opposite. So you are purely talking utterly nonsense. WoW had around 2 million customers pre-tbc, now 12 million people are playing it. Still you manage to puke up something meaningless like that.
I would rather say it is like because of people like OP MMOgenre became better. Plain & simple. There are no room for elitist jerks in MMO world anymore, so go cry some more. You have been bereft of your powers. Tears from people like you are excellent polish for my Paladin's armor.
/bearhug
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Please, chrisel, for your sake, find yourself a friend that you respect who has a solid background in statistics. Have him explain to you the concept of how a group of individuals operating in tandem is worth more than the sum of their parts, always. It has been exposed elsewhere on these forums but apparently you either missed it or you are not perceptive to this medium. But find that friend.
Now examine how rewards are handed out. If you reward the challenge, then in all cases a group will garner bigger individual gains because of the modifier that a group entails. If you reward simply the number of people, then you in effect abolish the group dynamic.
For this reason a soloer cannot expect to be equally paid than a grouper. There is a delta that cannot be argued against. If you do remove this delta, you in effect obliterate all benefits of group play. This, could be easily seen as selfish on the behalf of the soloer if such an equalizer were considered. The grouper wants his just reward, the soloer should want his as well. But it isn't on par. Time is a separate variable, and please do not attempt to blend the two once you have been graced with the individual/cooperation mechanic's understanding.
It's pure math, dude. It's pure math.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I'm not sure what games the people saying it take forever to find a group play. Sure once in a while it may take longer to find a group, it also depends what time of the day it is. But, I think most people rely too much on the LFG chat. Here's what I do if LFG chat isn't biting. Open up the search window and send whispers to people asking them to join your group, it's that simple really. Usually end up with a group in no time.