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How instancing ruins MMORPGs
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its so obvious that people skim posts and only comment on the silly one-liners and verbal zingery.
quoting myself here to remind a certain person what i said earlier.
ALSO, i don't feel like quoting the other message but if you were actually paying attention i proposed giving everyone a CHOICE in EVERY type of area of the world whether they want it to be public, and HOW populated they wanted those public areas, all the way down to something completely private. total customization. in ALL areas.
What you are saying there is that REAL mmos is what you like. What everyone else is playing are not mmos, because you are the sole keeper of the true meaning of the term. As long as you can have a REAL mmo, everyone else can play whatever crap it is they are playing.
I got tired of the argument and tried to make one last attempt at appeasing people. You keep with the superiority act. Have fun.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Because nothing builds community like endless /shouts across the zone about who has "claimed" which camp, who is ninja'ing who, who is killstealing the rare spawn, etc, etc, etc. There's nothing that makes me feel like I'm a hero in a fantasy world more than seeing forty people standing around one spot, waiting for something to spawn and then a mad rush of attacks in the hopes you'll be the one to get it (or loot it, since old EQ, as I remember, let anyone loot a corpse, though it's been so long I'm not 100% sure), or having a GM show up and basically make groups wait in line to kill something.
Instancing is a problem because it reinforced the "Gaminess" of the game, and modern "queue and teleport" instances are even worse, because even if the instance is woven into the lore, you will never see it in context, approach it, etc. Non-instancing is a problem because the more people you have competing for something, the more they become assholes.
In short, there will be problems no matter what, and you have to decide which annoys you more -- having the world become unreal, or having the world seem to be both more real and populated entirely with jerks. (In addition, huge crowds in dungeons can also make the world feel unreal -- see above. The Fellowship in Moria didn't exactly scream out "Who's camping the Balrog?" when they went in. Done well, an instance could increase the sense of really exploring, of being somewhere lost and forbidden -- what if, when you entered an instance, all world chat cut out? No guild chat, no trade chat, no global channel, just you and your party.)
There ya go, nice and easy. But no, some people dont want you to experience content. Content is only for those who do 5 hour gaming stretches.
hahaha this is one of the funniest posts ever. Comnitus brings alot of persuasive arguments to the table
and this is the kind statement Toquio finds to be wisdom. 8)
I agreed with him. Your games are dead, and the ones that try to live are disfigured old freaks. Cry some more.
it gets even better. brilliant points you bring up there.
popularity = good. not so popular = bad
i'm sure music critics agree with you. jazz and classical for example are horrible genres cuz virtually no kids nowadays listen to them.
MMORPGs are not music, nor are they fast food, nor are they literally art. Any comparison fails.
I would still say popular=good in the genre since these games are almost always made for one reason, to make money. Now maybe their are some Indy games that would like to break even and make what they want, but I don't really believe that. They want to make what they want and make a lot of money.
any comparison fails? lol nothing can ever be compared again. there are absolutely no similarities in trends and logic that applies from one area of life to another area of life. everything exists in a comletely different vacuum with totally different rulesets. 8) ok, sure guy.
you are welcome to make a new thread about philosophies on how to print money the most efficient way possible, or if you insist you can hijack or derail this thread onto that subject, but that's not the conversation i'm participating in.
Comparing MMORPGs to Mcdonalds, music, etc fails. They simply aren't fair comparisons. Taking Music, popular might mean good if good equals sales. It might not mean good if it means technically good. While Jazz and Classical might be technically(in a musical sense) great music, it may hurt my ears when I listen to it so it isn't good for me. The comparisons fail because you want the good to be subjective in the area you define it, and its very easy to frame it that way, but it fails. Music as an art form is subjective, therefore what is good is up to the listener, period. Music as a product and industry defines what sells as being good. So yes, in that sense it is good.
if i'm not mistaken i'm being called snobbish and all sorts of other things just for bringing up my preferences, and actually explaining why i feel the way i do.
and for pointing out the silly snide one-liners people are spewing out for the nonsensical non-comments that they actually are.
lol.
i'm not the one/s trying to insult somebodies tastes at every turn, i said quite the opposite several times.
some of you apparently think there's something wrong with being newish to the genre. i never suggested that. if you feel defensive about that for ANY reason..... it probably says more about you and how YOU judge other people.
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Corpus Callosum
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its so obvious that people skim posts and only comment on the silly one-liners and verbal zingery.
quoting myself here to remind a certain person what i said earlier.
ALSO, i don't feel like quoting the other message but if you were actually paying attention i proposed giving everyone a CHOICE in EVERY type of area of the world whether they want it to be public, and HOW populated they wanted those public areas, all the way down to something completely private. total customization. in ALL areas.
What you are saying there is that REAL mmos is what you like. What everyone else is playing are not mmos, because you are the sole keeper of the true meaning of the term. As long as you can have a REAL mmo, everyone else can play whatever crap it is they are playing.
I got tired of the argument and tried to make one last attempt at appeasing people. You keep with the superiority act. Have fun.
lol i can't believe THIS coming from the guy who thought "zone instances = bad, dungeon instances = good" was actually a meaningful post.
YOU are the one havng a problem accepting other peoples tastes. do i need to go back and quote your brief snotty lines to several people where you basically said "i'm right, you're wrong, you're dumb, your game's are dead"?
lol what a hypocrite.
and here i am flat out stating, EARLY in the conversation that i don't look down on you for liking a game thats not a pure MMO.
you know what? your fave games could be *gasp* single player games! and i still wouldn't call you evil or stupid for liking them.
its YOU acting that way to other people who actually want their MMOs to be.....amazingly, a MMO through and through. if you can't handle hearing others tastes don't participate in the conversation.
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There ya go, nice and easy. But no, some people dont want you to experience content. Content is only for those who do 5 hour gaming stretches.
hahaha this is one of the funniest posts ever. Comnitus brings alot of persuasive arguments to the table
and this is the kind statement Toquio finds to be wisdom. 8)
I agreed with him. Your games are dead, and the ones that try to live are disfigured old freaks. Cry some more.
it gets even better. brilliant points you bring up there.
popularity = good. not so popular = bad
i'm sure music critics agree with you. jazz and classical for example are horrible genres cuz virtually no kids nowadays listen to them.
MMORPGs are not music, nor are they fast food, nor are they literally art. Any comparison fails.
I would still say popular=good in the genre since these games are almost always made for one reason, to make money. Now maybe their are some Indy games that would like to break even and make what they want, but I don't really believe that. They want to make what they want and make a lot of money.
any comparison fails? lol nothing can ever be compared again. there are absolutely no similarities in trends and logic that applies from one area of life to another area of life. everything exists in a comletely different vacuum with totally different rulesets. 8) ok, sure guy.
you are welcome to make a new thread about philosophies on how to print money the most efficient way possible, or if you insist you can hijack or derail this thread onto that subject, but that's not the conversation i'm participating in.
Comparing MMORPGs to Mcdonalds, music, etc fails. They simply aren't fair comparisons. Taking Music, popular might mean good if good equals sales. It might not mean good if it means technically good. While Jazz and Classical might be technically(in a musical sense) great music, it may hurt my ears when I listen to it so it isn't good for me. The comparisons fail because you want the good to be subjective in the area you define it, and its very easy to frame it that way, but it fails. Music as an art form is subjective, therefore what is good is up to the listener, period. Music as a product and industry defines what sells as being good. So yes, in that sense it is good.
all analogies fail at some point when you go in depth comparing them piece by piece. but, do me a favor and actually SHOW me at what point that happens with this analogy instead of telling me it totally fails.
cuz analogies are not pointless failures inherently. they can help people understand certain trends that are common in many areas of life by showing it at work in a different context.
while you might not enjoy jazz/classical, you admit you can't deny there is alot of talent and depth to it. that it comes down to just being a simple matter of taste. whether you like something or not.
you know what? thats exactly the point i'm trying to get across to this guy.
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its so obvious that people skim posts and only comment on the silly one-liners and verbal zingery.
quoting myself here to remind a certain person what i said earlier.
ALSO, i don't feel like quoting the other message but if you were actually paying attention i proposed giving everyone a CHOICE in EVERY type of area of the world whether they want it to be public, and HOW populated they wanted those public areas, all the way down to something completely private. total customization. in ALL areas.
What you are saying there is that REAL mmos is what you like. What everyone else is playing are not mmos, because you are the sole keeper of the true meaning of the term. As long as you can have a REAL mmo, everyone else can play whatever crap it is they are playing.
I got tired of the argument and tried to make one last attempt at appeasing people. You keep with the superiority act. Have fun.
lol i can't believe THIS coming from the guy who thought "zone instances = bad, dungeon instances = good" was actually a meaningful post.
YOU are the one havng a problem accepting other peoples tastes. do i need to go back and quote your brief snotty lines to several people where you basically said "i'm right, you're wrong, you're dumb, your game's are dead"?
lol what a hypocrite.
and here i am flat out stating, EARLY in the conversation that i don't look down on you for liking a game thats not a pure MMO.
you know what? your fave games could be *gasp* single player games! and i still wouldn't call you evil or stupid for liking them.
its YOU acting that way to other people who actually want their MMOs to be.....amazingly, a MMO through and through. if you can't handle hearing others tastes don't participate in the conversation.
Ok, first of all 'lol' is not punctuation.
Second of all, "your games are dead, cry some more" was my way of lashing out at your stone wall attitude. I still shouldnt've done it, but I did. Sorry for being human. And all humans are hypocrites in one way or another, even you.
On this argument you say A, I say B, and there is no way to get out of this. So there. Take whatever you want from that.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.