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THE TRUTH: Most people cannot handle hardcore PVE....
pencilrick
Member Posts: 1,550
The PVP'ers want full loot and free range kills, while the carebears want PVE on training wheels.
But something either group cannot seem to grasp is the challenge of hardcore PVE, with its wandering overconned mobs and stinging death penalties requiring strangers to group together and communicate in order to survive in a dangerous and unforgiving game world.
So, except for niche gaming, ENOUGH with FULL LOOT PVP that only drives away most gamers. And ENOUGH with "Candyland" hold-my-hand PVE that bores all but the least cognitive to tears.
IT IS TIME FOR HARDCORE PVE, like we had abotu 8 or 9 years ago. (With modern graphics, U.I., new world, of course).
Comments
A parody with a sort of truth, odd.
Hardcore pve where monsters have full loot on your death penaltied corpse.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
Hardcore PVE where there is a stinging death penalty (say you lose 10% of a level's worth of experience if you die) and where the mobs sometimes move or are of different strengths than before when they respawn. Basically, anything to keep the players on their toes and on their guard.
What is funny is that nobody considered EQ a hard MMORPG back then, it was just a plain normal game. I wonder if WOW will be considered hardcore in 2015.
Hardcore PVE where there is a stinging death penalty (say you lose 10% of a level's worth of experience if you die) and where the mobs sometimes move or are of different strengths than before when they respawn. Basically, anything to keep the players on their toes and on their guard.
Yeeeaaaahh.. I would not play such a game. Lose 10% of a level (and I assume you want really slow leveling too) is just unnecessarily harsh for my tastes, and I think many casual players would think the same. Adding challenge as in increased difficulty, or bonus bosses/loot for timed dungeon runs or no death runs would be a much better strategy.
The stick drives people away, the carrot makes people come and stay.
...Which will appeal to a minority in this day and age.
...Which will appeal to a minority in this day and age.
this minority is large enough to become the entire playerbase of an mmo. No mmo tries to soak in every player in the world, they all have a target consumer. There's enough within this minority to have a MMo designed just for them.
Imagine a company making wheelchairs. The people who use wheelchairs (elderly and disabled0 are obviously a minority. But large enough for these companies to have all the clientelle they need.
minority or majority, it doesn't matter. the numbers are in the millions at least.
I doubt the minority who wants such a game is much larger than the FFA full-loot PvP crowd, which is only in the tens of thousands (though very vocal). How many people want a new car without modern aids such as ESP, ABS, power steering, automatic, A/C, disc brakes etc?
I am with you on the manual, but I'm glad as hell that my RWD car has ESP and ABS with almost 1 meter of snow outside
And cars sold in the EU will soon lose 1 safety point if they don't have ESP as standard. My first car was so basic it even had a choke, and I don't long for those days. Same thing with MMO's with corpse runs and only 5% of the players being able to go up against the toughest bosses; their days are thankfully numbered.
The funniest thing about Old school topics is that many features that people are championing where mistakes in the game. THE TRUTH is the harsh of death penalty in EQ was a mistake,The fact that Mobs could be trained into other players was a mistake,design that tons of people have to wait around for Boss or Mobs to respawn was a mistake,etc..
Do mmo need to be more difficult,Yes but it won't be like the good ole days because many of the stuff where mistake that didn't have the tech to fix or knowledge of how a mmorpg at time.Some players don't seem to realize that the devs didn't know exactly what they where creating.
you're right, i can't handle it..
I've been playing MMO's since '94 or so, and i could never stand hardcore PvE..
Things like, but not limited too, waiting around for the "ideal" group (which could take hours if not planned properly), needing specific number of specific potions/food, lock out timers, endless hours of trash mobs, needing the proper gear and your friends progressed a lil faster than you did, I could go on...
I know some people love it, and thats great, but its not for me. I find less "downtime" in full loot PvP.
Newsflash: most people can't handle ANYTHING hardcore, whether it's PvE or PvP, mainly due to time constraints.
What is with all the macho chest beating here recently? You nerds really need more in your lives if games mean so much to you.
Well, it is a message board about MMOs, where people discuss different aspects of the genre', which include, but not limited too, the really "hardcore" portions of the MMO community.
The type of game u speak of is the first Everquest. The worse thing to happen to EQ was EQ2 because it split up the people that were playing the original. Then number of people in the game became so low that it didnt work. EQ was a grouping game. U may have soloed certain parts but it came a time when u knew u needed help. After W.O.W came out and it softened so many people and now i dont believe that the same type of player who loved PvE and PvP for fun exist as much anymore. Now u have players who have something to prove by killing other players or the ones who love PvE so they can get gear also because they feel that it proves something. I may be wrong but i have played both types of games and neither has a great community for gamers anymore. Its just most people out for themselves seeking real satisfaction in worlds meant to be fantasy.
Well said, and this is why i won't don't play gear based MMOs.
...Which will appeal to a minority in this day and age.
this minority is large enough to become the entire playerbase of an mmo. No mmo tries to soak in every player in the world, they all have a target consumer. There's enough within this minority to have a MMo designed just for them.
McQuaid! I didn't know you posted here. Hiya! o/
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Well there is a basic mistake in stating that your belief is THE truth when in fact it is only your belief and also there is a difference between being able to handle something and wanting it. I can handle getting a root canal when I go to the dentist I just don't want to go get one every week.
EQ was and is still a great game and I have great memories of the raiding in EQ but I was a slack player in that I showed up and played my part but that I wasn't interested in organizing and managing the raid. The time and effort that it took to organize a raid in EQ was not inconsequential a lot of the leaders would burn out from the work of doing it and even though generally other people stepped up and took over it slowly became too much for too many.
In WoW they tried to avoid some of the extremes that were in place in EQ and lowered the number of people needed and shortened the length of time and complexity of raid encounters. By complexity I don't mean overall difficulty but that the raids were a bit more bite sized and manageable. But, even with that with the first major expansion they Blizzard reduced the size of raids from 40 players to 25 players because they felt that only 15% to 20% of the player base was able to participate in the high-end raiding content. Now, they have gone even further in reducing this and plan on continue doing it. Blizzard's stated goals is to allow as many people as possible the chance to play most if not all of the game content without the need to dedicate their lives to a hardcore raiding guild. You may not agree with this but they have done a good job of achieving this goal.
There are two aspects of gaming going on in MMORPGs at the moment. The first is the satisfaction of achieving something that is very hard to do and only can be done a few people and the other is not being excluded from content because you don't have 39 other super dedicated people. The people with both the time and inclination to dedicate to achieving a goal in a game will always moan about how easy it is made for those that don't "deserve" the rewards. However, the players that feel they will never have a chance to see much of the game content might moan about it but ultimately they will quit and move on to another game and so many game developers will try and keep those people happy which makes sense of course.
The real TRUTH is that anything labeled hardcore is really only suitable for a minority of people as it by definition strips away most of the extraneous factors and focuses on making a core portion of its content as extreme as possible and sadly with extremeists there is always some where virtually nothing is hardcore enough.
i tried eq this year i dont know if harder is the exact word !but its a brain game .you cant just go in and do mindless task
everything makes you think ,at least a lot more then in wow.just basic control at trial shows the diff
and its probably because the game makes you think a lot that its still as strong as it is
i ear there are still 150 000 playing it if these number are true this game will live longer then eq2 lol
i wouldn't mind more challenged pve but I see no for EQ like corpse runs and I really see no reason outside of pvp for anything to require more than a single group or maybe 2 groups. Being challenging is not the same thing as requiring 40 or more people. game wants to succeed they need to realize most of their players will have jobs and families so these guilds in WoW I see advertising for more raiders requiring 20-30 hours a week for raiding to me represent all that is wrong with mmos. These are for entertainment not to be a part time job.
There are challenging games out there and while I hesitate to bring Aion up as I don't want this to turn into either a pro or anti Aion thread the other day while playing Aion one of the members of my Legion wanted to go kill some world bosses which are really just fairly high level mobs that are outside of instances. So about 10 or 11 of us go to take the boss Medeus down. When we arrive there are about 4 or 5 players from the opposing faction there floating about and being all menancing and there are other groups of our faction starting to trickle in that want to engage the boss and take it. So we are in a situation where if we take too long one of the other Eloy groups will go for the boss but they are being polite and letting us go first but we don't have much time to beat him and the Asmos are waiting for a chance to jump in and mess with us. We form our strategy, clear a couple of elite mobs to make room for the fight and start it. As expected the Asmos jump in and start to attack and to bring mobs into the encounter as we try and burn down the boss. Of course the other Eloy groups just stand back and watch the show. We handle the Asmos and the mobs and keep on the boss but we are slowly dying but we ultimately take the boss down with everyone but one last player dead. He uses a ressurection stone to ressurect a cleric who resses all the others and we loot and win.
The basic boss fight was pretty straight forward PvE work and had a few twists to plan for such as he does an AoE sleep so a healer needs to stand back out of range to rush back in in when that happens. The added pressure of the opposing Asmo players though add a major random factor to then makes encounter require more thought and effort and thus overall made the fight a lot harder and a lot more satisfying in the end.
The point here is that games that simply make things harder miss the point in this case without the opposing players the developers could have made the boss tougher and his skills more complex but in the end once the players learned the "script" and knew the min/max levels he would go down every time. By adding in the randomness of real players the encounter was made much more interesting and challenging. But, having said that there are many that find the thought that another player can stop you from achieving something to be a problem for them. Fortunately, there are plenty of different games out there. Simply making a game more punatitive for failing to properly learn the script or guess what trick the developer had in mind does not make a game more hardcore. It makes it tedious and who wants to waste their time doing something that isn't fun.
The game which you describe is FFXI before it got too old.
WoW is already considered hardcore by the non-MMORPG gamers. A game where you play for more than 15 hours per month is considered hardcore by many people focusing on the casual gaming market.
Well, it is a message board about MMOs, where people discuss different aspects of the genre', which include, but not limited too, the really "hardcore" portions of the MMO community.
Yes and hardcore is a term ego maniacs use to make themselves feel special. I enjoyed old UO's slow skill progression but that doesn't make me hardcore, tough, or any stupid nonsense like that.
That would kind of happen back in the old school UO days, the mob would grab a randow item from corpse and would suck if you were a caster and it took your reg bag lol, or a fighter and it took your sword.
Assassin's like to do it in the dark and from behind.
Well, it is a message board about MMOs, where people discuss different aspects of the genre', which include, but not limited too, the really "hardcore" portions of the MMO community.
Yes and hardcore is a term ego maniacs use to make themselves feel special. I enjoyed old UO's slow skill progression but that doesn't make me hardcore, tough, or any stupid nonsense like that.
If you don't want to read how awesome people consider themselves, might i suggest not reading message boards? You'll not only find it here, but just about any message board, chat room, anywhere people tend to congregate on the web, for that matter.
Just a suggestion.
This place seems full of ego maniacs...
welcome to the web!