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Do hardcore gamers ruin the game for themselves?
0tter
Member UncommonPosts: 226
I've noticed that hardcore gamers tend to be the most passionate about mmorpgs, which of course is what makes them consider themselves hardcore. They study everything about a particular game, download maps, analyze strategies, and buy multiple accounts. They want to be the first to accomplish something ingame. They can give you percentages of ratios in regards to how one piece of armor affects the dps, str, wis, int, whatever of another piece of equipment. Most of the time I don't know what they are talking about.
When I play an mmorpg, I just want to know what's on the other side of that hill. I want to have a story with somekind of thought put into it. I want to be able to work with other people to save a kingdom, or defeat the dragon, monster, ultimate evil, whatever.
For me, it's about being part of a community of people that "live" and work together in this virtual world and immmersing yourself in said world. It's like being an active participant in a good book.
For some hardcore gamers, it becomes less about the adventure and wander of a new world to explore, than a breakdown and study of the mmorpgs game mechanics. They want to be the first and only ones to beat that dragon. It's less about being part of a community than being number one. In doing that, they study the game so much in order to dominate other gamers that any real joy they get isn't in the game itself but in "pwnin nubs". Pretty soon, that gets boring. They bash the game and move on to the next upcoming game with all the zeal and passion they heaped into the first one.
It reminds me of the classic Leroy Jenkins clip. They're all planning the raid, doing "number crunches" and sounding bored as hell, when Leroy just runs in, trains everything and gets everyone killed. He was the only one that was trying to have fun. They sounded like bored office workers discussing paper clips.
Comments
Absolutely.
It's like everything else; take stuff too seriously and it just sucks the fun right out of it .. that's twice as tragic when said stuff happens to be a recreational activity like gaming.
It's lamentable, but a futile lament. People don't change, and some MMO gamers just have an overly aggressive streak of competitiveness that drives them to attempt to "win" the MMO. There are also the people with vast reserves of spare time that exhaust all the available content then whine about how stale the game is.
Crazy but true.
I blame "hardcore" gamers for the lack of fluff/social mechanics in modern MMOs. They're constantly sucking up content and demanding moremoremore, it's no surprise that the developers can't spare time on the fun stuff like crafting and housing.
(The Leroy Jenkins thing was completely staged, btw)
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Let's compare it to bowling. I'm not a hardcore bowler, I rent the ball and the shoes. I'm just there to have fun.
Then you have the guys trying to go pro. I don't think they are having nearly as much fun as I am. They are more obsessive about getting a high score.
Each to his own.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Why do you care? Just enjoy yourself and play how and with whom you want.
Jam is sticky.
By hardcore i assume you mean they burn through content in a silly race to high level and then whine about nothing left to do.
This type of mentality is a cancer on mmo health and development.
To damn true, people who play like this don't realize it's their own fault "they have nothing left to do". The average gamer does more than just play,which leaves plenty to do within the game for a substantial time. There's no reason Dev's should cater to such "hardcore" play-styles, as someone pointed out earlier it takes away from the rest of the game. Besides you never please these types of gamers in the first place, they're never happy. Probably due to lack of sunshine.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I totally agree Otter. I dont consider myself a hardcore gamer, if a piece of armor seems better, i use it.. i dont know exactly what percentage im raising my dps to versus what i might be lowering my armor factor to. I just look and make a generalization. I enjoy venturing out and with players, its all about the journey not the end game to me. I used to be all about the endgame, though i was never a number cruncher like you talked about. I do think if they looked at it from a fun standpoint instead of a "i have to beat this" mentallity, they would have more fun.
But there in lies the problem, people that do everything you just said above, they have a different mentality, they play differently, and ultimately when they feel they've beat the game, they move on.. thats the thing about mmo's they arent getting though, they were never developed or meant to be BEAT. They were meant to be persistent, and ever changing. they rush through to end level, experience everything before the devs can release any new content or changes, so really they're cutting themselves short of new things, and new journies to have.
Not so much the ones that race through content as much as the ones that do a breakdown study of a game's mechanics and care nothing about the game's lore. Although those people tend to be the ones that race through content and discover and use exploits.
I think you are describing power levelers more than you are hard core players.
Having a strict death penealty, no fast travel, fairly unforgiving tactics and aggro management... none of that has anything to do with the powerleveling mindset.
I consider myself hard core, but on the other hand I could care less about what level I'm at, whether or not I'm "behind", whether or not I have uber gear... and so on. That's because I'm an RP player at the same time.
When I enter the world, I want to live the life. I probably do things that a lot of other players would consider horribly boring.
No the casual MMO's ruins the game for the hardcore players.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
i knew this post would'nt stay non-agrumentative for long. Here it comes, hardcore players vs casuals. Let the flame being
Hah, yes, and those are the same people who scream about death penalties and travel times or anything which might "OMG SLOW DOWN THEIR PROGRESSION!" The same people who love games which guide them every step of the way so they never have to do any exploring or just messing around for fun. The same people who don't want any social elements or roleplay fluff because it's just an impediment or a distraction on their way to being leet.
They don't play games to PLAY games they use games to get some sort of self validation....or something. I don't properly understand it.
Yes.
Either style of 'play' is fine but when you try to create a game that caters to both types you start running into overlapping problems.
Creating a game that keeps people occupied who spend 40+ hours a week there is difficult enough. 'Casuals' are spending more and more time in virtual realms and obviously time alone doesn't mean 'hardcore' in the sentiment of this thread.
Indeed.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
You are both wrong.
Hardcore players playing casual games are begging for it, same as the other way around.
A game made by and for hardcore players is made to be played that way, it works fine then. But if you try the same with a game for casual players you will get bored soon.
There is no right or wrong way to enjoy playing but there are right or wrong game for your play-style. Buying a casual game and then complaining about it is pointless, you are not playing the game as intended.
Right now is casual gaming most popular and therefor are most games casual, it was the other way around 10 years ago but things like that goes and comes, but there are still some games that aims at hardcore players.
Saying that your play-style is right and someone else's wrong is just ignorant.
I'm actually having terminology confusion these days.
What's hardcore? What's casual? Can you only be hardcore if you PVP - what if you only PVE and are a major min maxer?
What if you race to the top in which ever fashion is fastest?
What if you play 40+ hours a week but never kill anything?
I've met all kinds in many different MMOs - and many who play one way one week and another the next - that's what makes MMOs great.
Edit: And LOL MMORPG can't make up it's mind about my status - one time I post and come up as Apprentice Member, the next Hard Core Member and then back to Apprentice Member I go:)
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I never meant for this to be a casual vs hardcore thread. I used to consider myself hardcore simply because of the time I invested in an mmorpg. The hardcore I was talking about are the ones that put more study into a games machanics than the story. They tend to be the ones that complain a game is too easy or dumbed down because they study it down to its code.
How about an analogy that doesn't involve fast food or pop stars? How many people have watched a magician perform a trick and were impressed and in awe of the act? How did he do that, you wander? So you research it, find out that he simply had it up his sleeve and were disappointed. These hardcore gamers want to know who's behind the curtain, or how the trick is done and take all the wander out of it for themselves.
People like to play games different to others i suppose.
I love number crunching, reading tactics, discussing the best way to approach each fight. If you dont do this on WoW hard-modes then you simply wont have a chance at them.
Even if you dont enjoy the discussions about the best way to approach a fight it all pays off in the end once you down a boss and progress futher as a whole.
But like i said it depends how you play, some people love hardcore raiding 5 times a week, some people love to just play and enjoy themselves by doing whatever.
Hardcore gamers are not only a plague of MMORPGs, but also a plague of FPS, RTS, etc, name any genre and you have hardcore gamers who pretty much ruin it for everyone. The problem is the only thing they care about is winning, winning is everything to them. I'm pretty sure most hardcore gamers have a self esteem problem of some sort. In shooters they're the guys who play for 10 hours a day and get so good that they absolutely wreck anyone 90% of the time, a lot of people think they're hackers, and eventually these sort of people take over the community and it becomes very insular, because people want to have fun but they can't when they get wrecked the moment they respawn, so they stop playing the game. What's left is the "competitive" hardcore assholes.
I call BS. If you didnt think this thread was about Casual vs Hardcore, then your an idiot.
This arguement has been going on since the beginning of MMO Genre. The stupid part about it, is that it doesnt matter one way or the other whos right. Hardcore players enjoy one style, while casual enjoy another... neither is right or wrong, just different.
The main problem with Hardcore gamers is that we tend to blow through content on a very fast pace and are left scratching our heads wondering what to do next. The problem with casual gamers is that they see the hardcore gamers with all the cool shit and complain about not being able to get it easily.
Just my 2 cents..
I think that game-play will change in the future. Bosses will react and adapt to the players tactics instead of just taking it like they do today. The idea that a certain tactics always works and that you don't have to adapt and think fast to survive is kinda boring to me, and this will affect both hardcore and casual players in the future, it will not make it so easy to find out how do win a fight on the net.
I don't really think it is possible however to make a game that is equal fun to both hardcore and casual players, it will always be more focused on one of the groups and therefor more fun to them.
You are both wrong.
Hardcore players playing casual games are begging for it, same as the other way around.
A game made by and for hardcore players is made to be played that way, it works fine then. But if you try the same with a game for casual players you will get bored soon.
There is no right or wrong way to enjoy playing but there are right or wrong game for your play-style. Buying a casual game and then complaining about it is pointless, you are not playing the game as intended.
Right now is casual gaming most popular and therefor are most games casual, it was the other way around 10 years ago but things like that goes and comes, but there are still some games that aims at hardcore players.
Saying that your play-style is right and someone else's wrong is just ignorant.
Exactly if a game is made for the hardcore then the hardcore are happy. If a game is made more for casual then the obvious problem is the way the game is made. So the question was Do hardcore gamers ruin the game for themselves? Again the answer is no The way the game is designed will either make or break a play style. So again The casual MMO ruins the game for the hardcore.
You could ask the question the other way. Do casual gamers ruin the game for themselves? If its a hardcore style game then again its obvious that the game ruins the game for the player, not the player ruining the game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I found this statement moronic. You hate the hardcore players because you dont have the skill, ability or drive to compete with them.
Go ahead and say, its because they have no lives... blah blah blah.. i know thats whats next..