LachrymoseQQ , do you have any clue about law?? Apparently from your post above you do not. Let me make it very clear again for those that lack reading comprehension ..... YOU CAN'T LEGALLY ENTER INTO AN ILLEGAL AGREEMENT and that is what the NO REFUND policy is!!! Plain and simple it is crminal intent and is actionable in both US and EU courts of law. It has been pointed out over and over what Visa / MC rules are, what EU law is, what US law is and SV has violated every f'n last one of these rules and laws in regards to mail order / delayed delivery sales. They DID NOT NOTIFY customers of a delay to shipping and offer either a refund or agreement to delay as required by both US and EU law. Forget the MC/VISA agreements. We are talking friggin LAW here, what part if that is so f'n hard to understand??? Are all you fawnbois really that dense or immature? They were selling a product and the damn product WAS NOT BETA TESTING it was a box with a DVD included. They defaulted on their end of the contract and criminally neglected to follow requirements laid down in law as to how to handle a delay. They should be brought up on charges and the company disbanded with fines and jail time administered to the principals of the company. Don't like that attitude? Well tough, that is the facts of life and how the law works. When some of you move out of mommies house you might learn that.
Haha, wow... easy there tiger. First off, SV never had a "no refund" policy. They simply stated in their refund policy that refunds are not guaranteed, which is absolutely within their rights to do. Law does not require refunds to be made in all cases. Airline companies have no refund policies all the time. Try this... Buy an airline ticket, then tell them you changed your mind and you want to return it. Hell, tell them your house exploded and you had to be rushed to the hospital, and you can't possible make your flight so you'd like a refund. Then try telling them they're criminals when they say "sorry, the tickets are nonrefundable" and watch them give you funny looks and call security to escort you off the premises. Don't like that attitude? Tough... THAT is the facts of life and how the law works.
The law generally does not entitle you to a refund simply because you change your mind on a previous purchase. If you purchase something that was faulty and you didn't know beforehand that it was faulty (you aren't entitled a refund on a faulty product if you know before the faults before purchasing), then you are entitled a refund. Department stores and retails stores will generally allow you a refund if you change your mind on a previous purchase, but this is a common courtesy they do to reinforce a positive relationship with the customer (something SV probably should have done). It is not required of them. SV made it clear that the beta was not meant to be "playable" and that there would be bugs and many other issues with the game that need to be dealt with before release. Because they made it clear that the beta would be "faulty" and you have not received the actual product (the box copy), then you are not entitled a refund, as you knew the beta would be "faulty" and you have not received the final product to determine whether or not it's faulty (also, by "faulty" this does not mean "omg I dun like this game!" it would most likely be along the lines of a broken/scratched disk that will not play).
In regard to the delayed release... contracts do not simply become void if one party does not fulfill the contract by the stated date. Law allows a "reasonable" amount of time to pass after the stated date, and then it will be deemed void (there are other factors that would deem the contract void, however). Now, what constitutes a "reasonable" amount of time varies from state to state and from country to country, and I have no idea what it is in Europe. IF you wanted to ensure that the contract was fulfilled by a specific date, a "time is of the essence" clause would have to be included in the contract, which would mean it becomes void at the time the contract was supposed to be fulfilled. That clause was not in SV's contract. They were supposed to release the game in Q4, and it's been 3 weeks since then, which I wouldn't consider an "unreasonable" amount of time, but again, I have no idea whether Swedish law does. Further complicating the situation is the fact that part of the purchase was access to beta, which has already been recieved. In addition, the contents of the product remaining to be delivered (the box copy) are available for download, and you can access that content if you have an account. This is something the courts should consider when determining a "reasonable" amount of time to receive the game, considering you already have the "game" and the account, just not the box (with the exception of those who ordered the full loot bags).
Finally... even IF the courts decided that they have already exceeded a reasonable amount of time to fulfill their side of the contract, this would only constitute a minor breach of the contract... it certainly wouldn't be a material breach. The courts would likely simply force them to refund the customers' money. There's no evidence that they're running a scamming operation here, only that they were ignorant of the laws. I could maybe see them receiving a fine for their negligence... but it would be absolutely insane if they were sent to jail. I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but it certainly isn't the same one as me if you think failure to fulfill a contract will earn someone a jail sentence.
The only thing you are trying to do, is to vilify Starvault as a developer.
You - as a vengeful man - are just trolling.
Where are objective videos inside your post ?
Ohh , you forgot that nothing less than 9 out of 10 beta players are very pleased and satisfied from preordering MO.
Did you preorder MO ?
Did you play it personally ? I doubt that very much.
Wish you tons of gold, and plenty free hours to spend them on farming this gold in sweet cookiecutting themepark
chaffrpgs.
Are you serious? Did you play it? I doubt it very much.
I payed for the beta because I like the concept they are going for, and I like the idea of creating a market for similar games. But the whole 9 out of 10 nonsense with being pleased with the product as it stands is ridiculous. It's a shell of a game.
Removed the boxes not being shipped part. Still does not change that the game is going to be released broken and incomplete.
Yup, but at was stated before they did actually sell a product, and yet again what I was saying about MMOs being pushed back and getting refunds is solely for the purpose that a majority of players that were in beta just didn't like the game.. it had nothing to do with starvaults push back of the date. If the game was in better condition, this whole conversation would be moot. Since you all didn't like the game, you wanted your money back. Not you in particular mccoy... just a blanket statement.
Good posting, for swedish law, doesn't really invalidate my point though. I think this will be a learning experience for both parties, SV will learn how to conduct business in a better manner for their customers, and maybe the customers will learn that they shouldn't be ridiculous and buy an unfinished product months before they see it in its working condition.
Anyone who claims that they didn't pre-order Mortal Online to play the beta is outright lying, plain and simple.
The thought crossed my mind to pre-order, but there was no way I'd commit myself to fully paying for a totally untested product from an unknown developer. Why would I want to pay for a game that may honestly not work, fail shortly after launch or be a total scam? (Anyone remember Red Dragon Software and the whole Dawn fiasco?)
Bottom line is that nobody should be getting a refund for this game. The game was delayed? What a surprise! All MMOs are delayed. That's not a valid reason to want a refund. Those that bought this game knew exactly what they were getting into. Anyone who bought this game is clearly an "in the know" MMO vet because this is a very niche game, with a niche following. To even know this game exists you have to visit MMO news sites. They should have known what buying an MMO from an inexperienced company meant.
I look forward to giving this game a whirl in open beta. If I like what I see, then I'll buy a retail copy. I followed DFO for 5 years quite religiously and was very underwhelmed by it when I got into beta. It simply was nowhere near what I expected. It certainly isn't "the next UO" even spiritually speaking.
I'm fully willing to support an incomplete game (all MMOs are released incomplete to varying degrees) as long as it shows potential to be what I'm looking for. DFO will never be what I'm looking for. Maybe MO will, with time.
Anyone who claims that they didn't pre-order Mortal Online to play the beta is outright lying, plain and simple. The thought crossed my mind to pre-order, but there was no way I'd commit myself to fully paying for a totally untested product from an unknown developer. Why would I want to pay for a game that may honestly not work, fail shortly after launch or be a total scam? (Anyone remember Red Dragon Software and the whole Dawn fiasco?) Bottom line is that nobody should be getting a refund for this game. The game was delayed? What a surprise! All MMOs are delayed. That's not a valid reason to want a refund. Those that bought this game knew exactly what they were getting into. Anyone who bought this game is clearly an "in the know" MMO vet because this is a very niche game, with a niche following. To even know this game exists you have to visit MMO news sites. They should have known what buying an MMO from an inexperienced company meant. I look forward to giving this game a whirl in open beta. If I like what I see, then I'll buy a retail copy. I followed DFO for 5 years quite religiously and was very underwhelmed by it when I got into beta. It simply was nowhere near what I expected. It certainly isn't "the next UO" even spiritually speaking. I'm fully willing to support an incomplete game (all MMOs are released incomplete to varying degrees) as long as it shows potential to be what I'm looking for. DFO will never be what I'm looking for. Maybe MO will, with time.
Thanks for calling me a liar... but YOU are absolutely 100% wrong.
I bought this game on day one for one reason.. and that was because the developers said pre-ordering was the only way to ensure that you could play the game on launch day. After the Darkfall fiasco I assumed this was possible.
So please.. stop throwing blanket statements around.
Secondly, I am glad that the world doesn't revolve around whatever you decide to be a "valid reason" for a refund. Reality is that we did have a "valid reason" and thats why we got our money back.. with interest.. and a processing fee was charged to StarVault.
Your "valid reason" was that the game was delayed and you didn't receive your retail copy for a game that has not yet been released. SV is still going to deliver you your product, just not at the original estimated time. You have to be naive to think that the game was going to be released on time.
Basically, you are a liar. Your reason for pre-ordering conflicts with the fact that you're cancelling it now. Just admit that you played the beta, did not like the game and wanted a refund because you got buyers remorse. Do you think that if pre-ordering the game did not include access to the beta, that you'd still be requesting a refund at this point? Not likely, since your "valid reason" for a refund is that they did not deliver the product on time and you "pre-ordered because that was the only way to ensure that you could play the game on launch day."
You're lucky that pre-ordering included access to the beta in the first place. Otherwise you'd probably be posting on here shortly after launch complaining how much the game sucks and how you want your money back.
The nice thing about the legalities here, if SV is offering a physical product and giving a delivery date for it (Sept 1st), they are obligated to meet that date by a 'reasonable expectation'. 3 months late is not by any means, "reasonable". The legal rights of the consumer are really what's at heart here -- it doesn't MATTER if he didn't like the game, or got buyer's remorse after playing the beta. They paid for a physical product, and did not receive it. Thus, the company is obligated to renegotiate with them, or offer them a refund. Since they didn't bother to respond to emails, the customer has the right to cancel the order.
The fact that they DID cancel it shouldn't be a surprise, nor should it be discouraged. This is what customer protections are for.
The nice thing about the legalities here, if SV is offering a physical product and giving a delivery date for it (Sept 1st), they are obligated to meet that date by a 'reasonable expectation'. 3 months late is not by any means, "reasonable". The legal rights of the consumer are really what's at heart here -- it doesn't MATTER if he didn't like the game, or got buyer's remorse after playing the beta. They paid for a physical product, and did not receive it. Thus, the company is obligated to renegotiate with them, or offer them a refund. Since they didn't bother to respond to emails, the customer has the right to cancel the order.
The fact that they DID cancel it shouldn't be a surprise, nor should it be discouraged. This is what customer protections are for.
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Jesus.... What about paying for pre-orders!? Damn, if they only have said: "We will ship the boxes asap, but at release at latest". Just think how many of you who had slept so much better. And there would be no flaming about this. The most funny part is all post about: ME BEEING PROFESSOR IN LAW, I KNOW ALL LAW ALL OVER THE WORLD. Lol, why take it so serious? I think there are bigger problems in life than whining as babys so much. At least for me "who have moved out my mommies house". When you all lawyers do as well, you will find out that there is loads of stuff to do but try to be experts on those forums..
The nice thing about the legalities here, if SV is offering a physical product and giving a delivery date for it (Sept 1st), they are obligated to meet that date by a 'reasonable expectation'. 3 months late is not by any means, "reasonable". The legal rights of the consumer are really what's at heart here -- it doesn't MATTER if he didn't like the game, or got buyer's remorse after playing the beta. They paid for a physical product, and did not receive it. Thus, the company is obligated to renegotiate with them, or offer them a refund. Since they didn't bother to respond to emails, the customer has the right to cancel the order.
The fact that they DID cancel it shouldn't be a surprise, nor should it be discouraged. This is what customer protections are for.
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
QFT
Didn't understand all the hate against all those who don't like what they got and want their money back first. But you got to see it llike this, some guys wants this game to succeed at every price and so they invested their money, everyone who pulls the money out afterwards is one small step into the direction the game will fail because SV looses the money and other interested people will be afraid of investing when they read that others are starting to pull their money out. So his own investment is in danger and the aim to let the game succeed too.
What these fans forgot is that a future customer can not be threatened like a bank who gives a credit, a customer gets a product for his money and if he doesn't like the product he has the right to give it back.
The nice thing about the legalities here, if SV is offering a physical product and giving a delivery date for it (Sept 1st), they are obligated to meet that date by a 'reasonable expectation'. 3 months late is not by any means, "reasonable". The legal rights of the consumer are really what's at heart here -- it doesn't MATTER if he didn't like the game, or got buyer's remorse after playing the beta. They paid for a physical product, and did not receive it. Thus, the company is obligated to renegotiate with them, or offer them a refund. Since they didn't bother to respond to emails, the customer has the right to cancel the order.
The fact that they DID cancel it shouldn't be a surprise, nor should it be discouraged. This is what customer protections are for.
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
QFT
Didn't understand all the hate against all those who don't like what they got and want their money back first. But you got to see it llike this, some guys wants this game to succeed at every price and so they invested their money, everyone who pulls the money out afterwards is one small step into the direction the game will fail because SV looses the money and other interested people will be afraid of investing when they read that others are starting to pull their money out. So his own investment is in danger and the aim to let the game succeed too.
What these fans forgot is that a future customer can not be threatened like a bank who gives a credit, a customer gets a product for his money and if he doesn't like the product he has the right to give it back.
I have been going through many different forums looking at all the arguments towards getting a refund. I have NOT played the beta so this is not because i tried it and decided i dont like it. I ordered the digital version back in august. It did not say preorder but i bought the actual digital version. And for any of you who say it is a preorder go to the mortal online store and read step 2 it clearly states that you are buying a copy of Mortal Online. After reading everything and it being almost a year now since i payed for it with out being able to play it i dont really want it anymore. There has been a lot about calling your cc company to get a refund. Stuff about how sv did it being illegal. And everyone saying that you cant get a refund and sv will ignore your email for it. I want to know simply is it possible to get a refund or not. And how to do it.
p.s. even if it was a preorder you should still be able to cancel it. you can cancel a preorder for any other game.
Originally posted by mov1ngtarget I have been going through many different forums looking at all the arguments towards getting a refund. I have NOT played the beta so this is not because i tried it and decided i dont like it. I ordered the digital version back in august. It did not say preorder but i bought the actual digital version. And for any of you who say it is a preorder go to the mortal online store and read step 2 it clearly states that you are buying a copy of Mortal Online. After reading everything and it being almost a year now since i payed for it with out being able to play it i dont really want it anymore. There has been a lot about calling your cc company to get a refund. Stuff about how sv did it being illegal. And everyone saying that you cant get a refund and sv will ignore your email for it. I want to know simply is it possible to get a refund or not. And how to do it. p.s. even if it was a preorder you should still be able to cancel it. you can cancel a preorder for any other game.
A) You bought it last August. This is January. That is 5 months, not "almost a year".
Star Vault will not refund you as it stated on the page when you purchased it and you agreed to on that same order page.
C) If you want a refund now, you're going to have to dispute this charge with your bank that issued the card you used to make the purchase. Good luck now though waiting five months (or a year as you say) to try and dispute that old of a purchase.
D) Why would you pay for the game, get beta access, and not play it at all? This makes absolutely NO sense, unless of course you simply cannot follow step by step directions on how to download and install it -or- if you don't have a computer with sufficient enough specs to play this game.
E) Stop QQ'ing about how you can get a refund with any other game... So you're telling me that you can go buy a game at Walmart or any other retail store, have them give you some pre-order bonus like instant access, then five months later, you can take the game back and get a refund? WoW. I kinda thought almost every game, console or PC had very strict "no refund policies" and that most would only "replace" a game should it not work.
Zax makes a good point in that as far as refunds go.. once you've purchased a game in a store or online, most store have a strict return policy to not take software back after its been opened or used. Technically a digital download of anything consists of the item being used...
As far as anger towards those getting refunds.. well... I guess me personally, i'd like to see some of the more gullible players actually lose money on this deal because in all honesty it was a bad decision. Nowhere is it ever a good decision to buy something sight unseen.. nor a game untested or not researched well enough. In the end, everyone is trying to rationalize that its because you didn't get a box..... a box with an outdated disc in there that won't even be loaded into your disc drive because you've already got the latest version downloaded on your PC. You've been playing the game.. and it has nothing to do with a box. You didn't like the game... you wanted your money back. Thats the truth. If I were in that situation... which I never would be when buying a game .. but if I were... I would want my money back too. Its okay to admit that.
I have been going through many different forums looking at all the arguments towards getting a refund. I have NOT played the beta so this is not because i tried it and decided i dont like it. I ordered the digital version back in august. It did not say preorder but i bought the actual digital version. And for any of you who say it is a preorder go to the mortal online store and read step 2 it clearly states that you are buying a copy of Mortal Online. After reading everything and it being almost a year now since i payed for it with out being able to play it i dont really want it anymore. There has been a lot about calling your cc company to get a refund. Stuff about how sv did it being illegal. And everyone saying that you cant get a refund and sv will ignore your email for it. I want to know simply is it possible to get a refund or not. And how to do it.
p.s. even if it was a preorder you should still be able to cancel it. you can cancel a preorder for any other game.
A) You bought it last August. This is January. That is 5 months, not "almost a year".
Star Vault will not refund you as it stated on the page when you purchased it and you agreed to on that same order page.
C) If you want a refund now, you're going to have to dispute this charge with your bank that issued the card you used to make the purchase. Good luck now though waiting five months (or a year as you say) to try and dispute that old of a purchase.
D) Why would you pay for the game, get beta access, and not play it at all? This makes absolutely NO sense, unless of course you simply cannot follow step by step directions on how to download and install it -or- if you don't have a computer with sufficient enough specs to play this game.
E) Stop QQ'ing about how you can get a refund with any other game... So you're telling me that you can go buy a game at Walmart or any other retail store, have them give you some pre-order bonus like instant access, then five months later, you can take the game back and get a refund? WoW. I kinda thought almost every game, console or PC had very strict "no refund policies" and that most would only "replace" a game should it not work.
Hope that helps.
- Zaxx
1) If he lives in the USA, there are laws that protect consumers up to 1 year. The game is not released yet so he can get a refund from it.
2) How is he "QQing" about getting refunds from other games? Normal retail stores sell preorders, even if it takes 5 years for the product to come out BUT as long as you have a receipt, they will give you a refund for the preorder before the actual game is released.
I have been going through many different forums looking at all the arguments towards getting a refund. I have NOT played the beta so this is not because i tried it and decided i dont like it. I ordered the digital version back in august. It did not say preorder but i bought the actual digital version. And for any of you who say it is a preorder go to the mortal online store and read step 2 it clearly states that you are buying a copy of Mortal Online. After reading everything and it being almost a year now since i payed for it with out being able to play it i dont really want it anymore. There has been a lot about calling your cc company to get a refund. Stuff about how sv did it being illegal. And everyone saying that you cant get a refund and sv will ignore your email for it. I want to know simply is it possible to get a refund or not. And how to do it. p.s. even if it was a preorder you should still be able to cancel it. you can cancel a preorder for any other game.
After the stress test or open beta, people will know what the game is like and whether or not they want to subscribe to it right now. I'd strongly recommend not buying it until after that.
The game has some issues at the moment, but it gets better all the time. In 6 months or so it should be a pretty badass game. I see it going the way of Darkfall, continuously improving after launch. Although, in my opinion, it will be better than DF down the line if only because of the 1.) graphics and 2.) skill cap.
Still, if you can't enjoy a half finished game, don't buy it. If you try it in the open beta and it hits home for you, by all means take the plunge. Everyone knows the devs could really use the support, but I don't expect or encourage people to buy it if they don't really like it or see the potential when they get a chance to play it themselves.
I played darkfall for 6 months i found it too shallow, no content even the world map was devoid of mobs i could ride around without bumping into mobs unless i crossed monster camps.
There is no real system setup for trade no auction house, no npc traders its a pain crafting wise having to find someone half way across the map to buy from.
Most players didn't bother staying in hamlets with all the hackers that are in it i decided to quit hacking is rampant people moving a lighting speed so fast in fact you can't see them, wall removing hacks,radar hacks, i even see a guy flying around killing people, teleport hacks, just too much hacking.
The question is will there be hacking in MO how is the content and every game has bugs its a beta.
I buyed Mortal Online, got into the Beta, and tryed to play a little bit... Updated a few times my beta version (more than 2-3gig per shot) to see the progress of the game... now that I saw it with my eyes, I don't even bother to log in...
It's BORING as hell... and yes a lot of fanboys in the forums... No maps, nothing... you need to be a hardcore mmo player and a sadomasochist to like this game..
Somes will love the game... but it's not designed for me at all...
Zax makes a good point in that as far as refunds go.. once you've purchased a game in a store or online, most store have a strict return policy to not take software back after its been opened or used. Technically a digital download of anything consists of the item being used...
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Zax makes a good point in that as far as refunds go.. once you've purchased a game in a store or online, most store have a strict return policy to not take software back after its been opened or used. Technically a digital download of anything consists of the item being used...
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
Zax makes a good point in that as far as refunds go.. once you've purchased a game in a store or online, most store have a strict return policy to not take software back after its been opened or used. Technically a digital download of anything consists of the item being used...
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
Exactly.
Thats where the line kind of blurs. Its like, if you preorder 6 games from 6 different vendors to get the special item, and then once you have all the special item codes, you cancel all of your preorders but 1... you shouldn't get those special items right? If you have the items already, that you can trade or sell online (and people really do that kind of stuff) then technically you've received an item under the condition that you are purchasing the game.
If you pre ordered, and you're promised you get in early beta access.. and you get in early beta access, use the access continuously and then don't buy the game after using whatever codes they gave you to get in, then by definition of fairness, they should be able to charge you for the game when it releases. You said they didn't produce a product, yet you've been playing the product and didn't like it. Its very different then buying a chair in a store and it not being delivered to your house in 4 weeks. You don't get a chair prototype to sit on while the other is being made. You can argue the beta of the game wasn't the finished product... but people will come back and argue that no MMO is a finished product.
Thats ultimately why you don't pay for a beta, which is really what this was. Its also what happened with the lifetime subs for CO and STO.. and I've been hearing a lot of mixed things about that as well... not to mention those threads about players wanting refunds of their lifetime sub because champions didn't provide any lasting appeal. I'm not saying its common, but its been an observation over the past many months.
We can quite literally go round and round on this subject all day, so lets just agree that -- because this game isn't in the condition of what people were expecting, they don't want to pay for it.
yea zaxtor99 if you would have actually read what i wrote i could not get the beta to download even when trying to follow the steps it might be because of my laptop i dont know but that dosnt matter. And if you go to gamestop, target, walmart, blockbuster, or basically any other store that lets you preorder games you can cancel your preorder before the game comes out. Oh and by the way when i said it was almost a year i was just saying what it felt like to me. If i cant get a refund and have to keep the game so be it I "preordered" it for a reason it looked like it was a great game with great features but now it has been 5 months and I simply dont want it anymore. I have a couple things to ask about and i would appreciate if someone would simply answer it and not give a biased reply about it. "Contact your Credit Card Company and tell them you want to have a chargeback under your Claims and Defenses Rights. Make sure you use those words as otherwise they default it as a billing issue which only has 60 days limitations. Claims and Defenses chargebacks can be made up to 1 year from purchase date. Send them documentation of your attempts to contact the company (copies of Emails etc) and your receipt. A dispute under your Claims and Defenses Rights needs 4 factors in order to be valid:
1. Puchase > $50
2. You must still have a balance on your card(can't have paid it to zero balance)
3. You must have made a goodfaith effort to contact the company
4. Purchase must be within 100 miles of your home OR be made via phone, mail or internet.
If you meet all 4 of those thresholds (and you should) your claim must be approved.
Enjoy."
Is this true or not. And " 'All sales are final' would be fine if they provided a product... but they haven't. You can't charge someone in July and then convert that sale into an open ended loan. That is what these guys tried to do. In my opinion they knew there was NO CHANCE of releasing in Sept/Oct/Nov and likely Dec..(heck I'd say unti July 2010 but that's a different story) but they let people order the game so they could get money. Then, even though they didn't deliver a product they tried to say "No Refunds". Yes, there was a small clickable link to refund policy off to the side on the order page but honestly.. how many people would even look for that in the rush of the gamestore opening at 2AM. Even so.. that policy is 100% against the terms of Visa/MC. They agreed to take Visa/MC as a form of payment so THEY agreed to the rules regarding charging people and delivering a product. THEY should have read what they were agreeing to." Does this have any credibility.
p.s. Oh and if anybody plans on posting something about you should have known what you were getting into you should have known what the games progress was etc. I did not look at anything except read the features think oh hey this looks like a great game coming out i would definatly like to play it and buy it. I didnt look through forums or any of that stuff. I expected a company to have a game that was playable. But its 2010 and their website still says that the games release date is Q4 2009
Comments
Haha, wow... easy there tiger. First off, SV never had a "no refund" policy. They simply stated in their refund policy that refunds are not guaranteed, which is absolutely within their rights to do. Law does not require refunds to be made in all cases. Airline companies have no refund policies all the time. Try this... Buy an airline ticket, then tell them you changed your mind and you want to return it. Hell, tell them your house exploded and you had to be rushed to the hospital, and you can't possible make your flight so you'd like a refund. Then try telling them they're criminals when they say "sorry, the tickets are nonrefundable" and watch them give you funny looks and call security to escort you off the premises. Don't like that attitude? Tough... THAT is the facts of life and how the law works.
The law generally does not entitle you to a refund simply because you change your mind on a previous purchase. If you purchase something that was faulty and you didn't know beforehand that it was faulty (you aren't entitled a refund on a faulty product if you know before the faults before purchasing), then you are entitled a refund. Department stores and retails stores will generally allow you a refund if you change your mind on a previous purchase, but this is a common courtesy they do to reinforce a positive relationship with the customer (something SV probably should have done). It is not required of them. SV made it clear that the beta was not meant to be "playable" and that there would be bugs and many other issues with the game that need to be dealt with before release. Because they made it clear that the beta would be "faulty" and you have not received the actual product (the box copy), then you are not entitled a refund, as you knew the beta would be "faulty" and you have not received the final product to determine whether or not it's faulty (also, by "faulty" this does not mean "omg I dun like this game!" it would most likely be along the lines of a broken/scratched disk that will not play).
In regard to the delayed release... contracts do not simply become void if one party does not fulfill the contract by the stated date. Law allows a "reasonable" amount of time to pass after the stated date, and then it will be deemed void (there are other factors that would deem the contract void, however). Now, what constitutes a "reasonable" amount of time varies from state to state and from country to country, and I have no idea what it is in Europe. IF you wanted to ensure that the contract was fulfilled by a specific date, a "time is of the essence" clause would have to be included in the contract, which would mean it becomes void at the time the contract was supposed to be fulfilled. That clause was not in SV's contract. They were supposed to release the game in Q4, and it's been 3 weeks since then, which I wouldn't consider an "unreasonable" amount of time, but again, I have no idea whether Swedish law does. Further complicating the situation is the fact that part of the purchase was access to beta, which has already been recieved. In addition, the contents of the product remaining to be delivered (the box copy) are available for download, and you can access that content if you have an account. This is something the courts should consider when determining a "reasonable" amount of time to receive the game, considering you already have the "game" and the account, just not the box (with the exception of those who ordered the full loot bags).
Finally... even IF the courts decided that they have already exceeded a reasonable amount of time to fulfill their side of the contract, this would only constitute a minor breach of the contract... it certainly wouldn't be a material breach. The courts would likely simply force them to refund the customers' money. There's no evidence that they're running a scamming operation here, only that they were ignorant of the laws. I could maybe see them receiving a fine for their negligence... but it would be absolutely insane if they were sent to jail. I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but it certainly isn't the same one as me if you think failure to fulfill a contract will earn someone a jail sentence.
Are you serious? Did you play it? I doubt it very much.
I payed for the beta because I like the concept they are going for, and I like the idea of creating a market for similar games. But the whole 9 out of 10 nonsense with being pleased with the product as it stands is ridiculous. It's a shell of a game.
Removed the boxes not being shipped part. Still does not change that the game is going to be released broken and incomplete.
Yup, but at was stated before they did actually sell a product, and yet again what I was saying about MMOs being pushed back and getting refunds is solely for the purpose that a majority of players that were in beta just didn't like the game.. it had nothing to do with starvaults push back of the date. If the game was in better condition, this whole conversation would be moot. Since you all didn't like the game, you wanted your money back. Not you in particular mccoy... just a blanket statement.
This is a pretty interesting comment www.mortalonline.com/forums/30589-refund.html#post672537
Good posting, for swedish law, doesn't really invalidate my point though. I think this will be a learning experience for both parties, SV will learn how to conduct business in a better manner for their customers, and maybe the customers will learn that they shouldn't be ridiculous and buy an unfinished product months before they see it in its working condition.
Anyone who claims that they didn't pre-order Mortal Online to play the beta is outright lying, plain and simple.
The thought crossed my mind to pre-order, but there was no way I'd commit myself to fully paying for a totally untested product from an unknown developer. Why would I want to pay for a game that may honestly not work, fail shortly after launch or be a total scam? (Anyone remember Red Dragon Software and the whole Dawn fiasco?)
Bottom line is that nobody should be getting a refund for this game. The game was delayed? What a surprise! All MMOs are delayed. That's not a valid reason to want a refund. Those that bought this game knew exactly what they were getting into. Anyone who bought this game is clearly an "in the know" MMO vet because this is a very niche game, with a niche following. To even know this game exists you have to visit MMO news sites. They should have known what buying an MMO from an inexperienced company meant.
I look forward to giving this game a whirl in open beta. If I like what I see, then I'll buy a retail copy. I followed DFO for 5 years quite religiously and was very underwhelmed by it when I got into beta. It simply was nowhere near what I expected. It certainly isn't "the next UO" even spiritually speaking.
I'm fully willing to support an incomplete game (all MMOs are released incomplete to varying degrees) as long as it shows potential to be what I'm looking for. DFO will never be what I'm looking for. Maybe MO will, with time.
Lol, you mean these guys? www.glitchless.com
They still have Dawn on their website for some reason.
Thanks for calling me a liar... but YOU are absolutely 100% wrong.
I bought this game on day one for one reason.. and that was because the developers said pre-ordering was the only way to ensure that you could play the game on launch day. After the Darkfall fiasco I assumed this was possible.
So please.. stop throwing blanket statements around.
Secondly, I am glad that the world doesn't revolve around whatever you decide to be a "valid reason" for a refund. Reality is that we did have a "valid reason" and thats why we got our money back.. with interest.. and a processing fee was charged to StarVault.
Your "valid reason" was that the game was delayed and you didn't receive your retail copy for a game that has not yet been released. SV is still going to deliver you your product, just not at the original estimated time. You have to be naive to think that the game was going to be released on time.
Basically, you are a liar. Your reason for pre-ordering conflicts with the fact that you're cancelling it now. Just admit that you played the beta, did not like the game and wanted a refund because you got buyers remorse. Do you think that if pre-ordering the game did not include access to the beta, that you'd still be requesting a refund at this point? Not likely, since your "valid reason" for a refund is that they did not deliver the product on time and you "pre-ordered because that was the only way to ensure that you could play the game on launch day."
You're lucky that pre-ordering included access to the beta in the first place. Otherwise you'd probably be posting on here shortly after launch complaining how much the game sucks and how you want your money back.
The nice thing about the legalities here, if SV is offering a physical product and giving a delivery date for it (Sept 1st), they are obligated to meet that date by a 'reasonable expectation'. 3 months late is not by any means, "reasonable". The legal rights of the consumer are really what's at heart here -- it doesn't MATTER if he didn't like the game, or got buyer's remorse after playing the beta. They paid for a physical product, and did not receive it. Thus, the company is obligated to renegotiate with them, or offer them a refund. Since they didn't bother to respond to emails, the customer has the right to cancel the order.
The fact that they DID cancel it shouldn't be a surprise, nor should it be discouraged. This is what customer protections are for.
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Stop with the flaming or the mods will erase this...
Jesus.... What about paying for pre-orders!? Damn, if they only have said: "We will ship the boxes asap, but at release at latest". Just think how many of you who had slept so much better. And there would be no flaming about this. The most funny part is all post about: ME BEEING PROFESSOR IN LAW, I KNOW ALL LAW ALL OVER THE WORLD. Lol, why take it so serious? I think there are bigger problems in life than whining as babys so much. At least for me "who have moved out my mommies house". When you all lawyers do as well, you will find out that there is loads of stuff to do but try to be experts on those forums..
Sighs...
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
QFT
Didn't understand all the hate against all those who don't like what they got and want their money back first. But you got to see it llike this, some guys wants this game to succeed at every price and so they invested their money, everyone who pulls the money out afterwards is one small step into the direction the game will fail because SV looses the money and other interested people will be afraid of investing when they read that others are starting to pull their money out. So his own investment is in danger and the aim to let the game succeed too.
What these fans forgot is that a future customer can not be threatened like a bank who gives a credit, a customer gets a product for his money and if he doesn't like the product he has the right to give it back.
[X] drill here for new monitor
It really boggles my mind how some people scream about how noone should get a refund. We paid for a product.. we didn't get the product yet.. so we cancelled and got our money back. It's really a simple procedure.
I can't think of any other instance where people are mad at you for getting your money back 6 months after you paid a company and haven't gotten a product delivered. I understand that people want to "support" SV... but let them do it with their own money, not mine. Thankfully.. we have a system of rules (internationally) which protect consumers in situations like this.
QFT
Didn't understand all the hate against all those who don't like what they got and want their money back first. But you got to see it llike this, some guys wants this game to succeed at every price and so they invested their money, everyone who pulls the money out afterwards is one small step into the direction the game will fail because SV looses the money and other interested people will be afraid of investing when they read that others are starting to pull their money out. So his own investment is in danger and the aim to let the game succeed too.
What these fans forgot is that a future customer can not be threatened like a bank who gives a credit, a customer gets a product for his money and if he doesn't like the product he has the right to give it back.
Good points
I have been going through many different forums looking at all the arguments towards getting a refund. I have NOT played the beta so this is not because i tried it and decided i dont like it. I ordered the digital version back in august. It did not say preorder but i bought the actual digital version. And for any of you who say it is a preorder go to the mortal online store and read step 2 it clearly states that you are buying a copy of Mortal Online. After reading everything and it being almost a year now since i payed for it with out being able to play it i dont really want it anymore. There has been a lot about calling your cc company to get a refund. Stuff about how sv did it being illegal. And everyone saying that you cant get a refund and sv will ignore your email for it. I want to know simply is it possible to get a refund or not. And how to do it.
p.s. even if it was a preorder you should still be able to cancel it. you can cancel a preorder for any other game.
A) You bought it last August. This is January. That is 5 months, not "almost a year".
C) If you want a refund now, you're going to have to dispute this charge with your bank that issued the card you used to make the purchase. Good luck now though waiting five months (or a year as you say) to try and dispute that old of a purchase.
D) Why would you pay for the game, get beta access, and not play it at all? This makes absolutely NO sense, unless of course you simply cannot follow step by step directions on how to download and install it -or- if you don't have a computer with sufficient enough specs to play this game.
E) Stop QQ'ing about how you can get a refund with any other game... So you're telling me that you can go buy a game at Walmart or any other retail store, have them give you some pre-order bonus like instant access, then five months later, you can take the game back and get a refund? WoW. I kinda thought almost every game, console or PC had very strict "no refund policies" and that most would only "replace" a game should it not work.
Hope that helps.
- Zaxx
Zax makes a good point in that as far as refunds go.. once you've purchased a game in a store or online, most store have a strict return policy to not take software back after its been opened or used. Technically a digital download of anything consists of the item being used...
As far as anger towards those getting refunds.. well... I guess me personally, i'd like to see some of the more gullible players actually lose money on this deal because in all honesty it was a bad decision. Nowhere is it ever a good decision to buy something sight unseen.. nor a game untested or not researched well enough. In the end, everyone is trying to rationalize that its because you didn't get a box..... a box with an outdated disc in there that won't even be loaded into your disc drive because you've already got the latest version downloaded on your PC. You've been playing the game.. and it has nothing to do with a box. You didn't like the game... you wanted your money back. Thats the truth. If I were in that situation... which I never would be when buying a game .. but if I were... I would want my money back too. Its okay to admit that.
A) You bought it last August. This is January. That is 5 months, not "almost a year".
C) If you want a refund now, you're going to have to dispute this charge with your bank that issued the card you used to make the purchase. Good luck now though waiting five months (or a year as you say) to try and dispute that old of a purchase.
D) Why would you pay for the game, get beta access, and not play it at all? This makes absolutely NO sense, unless of course you simply cannot follow step by step directions on how to download and install it -or- if you don't have a computer with sufficient enough specs to play this game.
E) Stop QQ'ing about how you can get a refund with any other game... So you're telling me that you can go buy a game at Walmart or any other retail store, have them give you some pre-order bonus like instant access, then five months later, you can take the game back and get a refund? WoW. I kinda thought almost every game, console or PC had very strict "no refund policies" and that most would only "replace" a game should it not work.
Hope that helps.
- Zaxx
1) If he lives in the USA, there are laws that protect consumers up to 1 year. The game is not released yet so he can get a refund from it.
2) How is he "QQing" about getting refunds from other games? Normal retail stores sell preorders, even if it takes 5 years for the product to come out BUT as long as you have a receipt, they will give you a refund for the preorder before the actual game is released.
Yes you can get a refund, refer to this thread/post --> www.mortalonline.com/forums/30589-refund.html#post671607
You bought a preorder, meaning you bought it before the game is actually released, so you are able to get a refund.
I played darkfall for 6 months i found it too shallow, no content even the world map was devoid of mobs i could ride around without bumping into mobs unless i crossed monster camps.
There is no real system setup for trade no auction house, no npc traders its a pain crafting wise having to find someone half way across the map to buy from.
Most players didn't bother staying in hamlets with all the hackers that are in it i decided to quit hacking is rampant people moving a lighting speed so fast in fact you can't see them, wall removing hacks,radar hacks, i even see a guy flying around killing people, teleport hacks, just too much hacking.
The question is will there be hacking in MO how is the content and every game has bugs its a beta.
It's BORING as hell... and yes a lot of fanboys in the forums... No maps, nothing... you need to be a hardcore mmo player and a sadomasochist to like this game..
Somes will love the game... but it's not designed for me at all...
I wish them luck... because they'll NEED a lot.
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
Exactly.
If the game was in released form you might have a point... but it's not. You can't use something that you haven't received.
Exactly.
Thats where the line kind of blurs. Its like, if you preorder 6 games from 6 different vendors to get the special item, and then once you have all the special item codes, you cancel all of your preorders but 1... you shouldn't get those special items right? If you have the items already, that you can trade or sell online (and people really do that kind of stuff) then technically you've received an item under the condition that you are purchasing the game.
If you pre ordered, and you're promised you get in early beta access.. and you get in early beta access, use the access continuously and then don't buy the game after using whatever codes they gave you to get in, then by definition of fairness, they should be able to charge you for the game when it releases. You said they didn't produce a product, yet you've been playing the product and didn't like it. Its very different then buying a chair in a store and it not being delivered to your house in 4 weeks. You don't get a chair prototype to sit on while the other is being made. You can argue the beta of the game wasn't the finished product... but people will come back and argue that no MMO is a finished product.
Thats ultimately why you don't pay for a beta, which is really what this was. Its also what happened with the lifetime subs for CO and STO.. and I've been hearing a lot of mixed things about that as well... not to mention those threads about players wanting refunds of their lifetime sub because champions didn't provide any lasting appeal. I'm not saying its common, but its been an observation over the past many months.
We can quite literally go round and round on this subject all day, so lets just agree that -- because this game isn't in the condition of what people were expecting, they don't want to pay for it.
yea zaxtor99 if you would have actually read what i wrote i could not get the beta to download even when trying to follow the steps it might be because of my laptop i dont know but that dosnt matter. And if you go to gamestop, target, walmart, blockbuster, or basically any other store that lets you preorder games you can cancel your preorder before the game comes out. Oh and by the way when i said it was almost a year i was just saying what it felt like to me. If i cant get a refund and have to keep the game so be it I "preordered" it for a reason it looked like it was a great game with great features but now it has been 5 months and I simply dont want it anymore. I have a couple things to ask about and i would appreciate if someone would simply answer it and not give a biased reply about it. "Contact your Credit Card Company and tell them you want to have a chargeback under your Claims and Defenses Rights. Make sure you use those words as otherwise they default it as a billing issue which only has 60 days limitations. Claims and Defenses chargebacks can be made up to 1 year from purchase date. Send them documentation of your attempts to contact the company (copies of Emails etc) and your receipt. A dispute under your Claims and Defenses Rights needs 4 factors in order to be valid:
1. Puchase > $50
2. You must still have a balance on your card(can't have paid it to zero balance)
3. You must have made a goodfaith effort to contact the company
4. Purchase must be within 100 miles of your home OR be made via phone, mail or internet.
If you meet all 4 of those thresholds (and you should) your claim must be approved.
Enjoy."
Is this true or not. And " 'All sales are final' would be fine if they provided a product... but they haven't. You can't charge someone in July and then convert that sale into an open ended loan. That is what these guys tried to do. In my opinion they knew there was NO CHANCE of releasing in Sept/Oct/Nov and likely Dec..(heck I'd say unti July 2010 but that's a different story) but they let people order the game so they could get money. Then, even though they didn't deliver a product they tried to say "No Refunds". Yes, there was a small clickable link to refund policy off to the side on the order page but honestly.. how many people would even look for that in the rush of the gamestore opening at 2AM. Even so.. that policy is 100% against the terms of Visa/MC. They agreed to take Visa/MC as a form of payment so THEY agreed to the rules regarding charging people and delivering a product. THEY should have read what they were agreeing to." Does this have any credibility.
p.s. Oh and if anybody plans on posting something about you should have known what you were getting into you should have known what the games progress was etc. I did not look at anything except read the features think oh hey this looks like a great game coming out i would definatly like to play it and buy it. I didnt look through forums or any of that stuff. I expected a company to have a game that was playable. But its 2010 and their website still says that the games release date is Q4 2009