This is another one of those sometimes good and sometimes bad defenses of a game. I mean, on the surface, it makes sense. The MMO genre is so big these days that every game is going after its own little niche part of the market. They aren't really being made anymore to try to appeal to everyone (cause that worked so well in the past), there should be an assumption that not every person is going to like every game. (yeah, maybe there should be...but there's not.)
Problem here is, Jon....some idiots really DO assume that every game should cater to THEIR personal desires for a game. They have a really hard time fathoming that this game...the one they're playing the trial for...might just be made for people who like a different kind of game than they do. They don't understand that they are not the center of the gaming universe, and that their preferences for gaming...are not worldwide views....
Frankly...I don't give a shit if I'm paying for and playing a game that I enjoy, if Joe Suckme logs in and "Oooo waaaah" doesn't like it. After all....we don't have fast travel, or brightly colored bikini clad nightelves dancing on mailboxes, or auto attack, or a diagram of how to most quickly get to max level and "endgame" (and yes...I have seen ACTUAL serious complaints about things like this). So you know what.....
If the game you're playing a trial of is NOT the game for you, for whaever reason you have in your mind.....is it ABSOLUTELY necessary to broadcast that complaint of yours to the entirety of the server, before you log off having never paid one DIME for the privilege of annoying everyone?? Really? Reeeeally?
The problem is that I so often see this defense used in a dismissive way.
And why...exactly....should we NOT be dismissive to someone that demands every game made must cater to their own personal whims? Yes, please do explain this. Because after the 10th time I hear from the SAME person how "this game sux, I can't auto target," or whatever their gripe of this particular hour is (that I will get to hear them say now repeatedly until NEXT hour's pet gripe) and yet they STILL are playing and polluting the public chat with stupidity....I start feeling a little... dismissive. And I don't think that's abnormal.....
People write these words when what they really mean is: "You're stupid. This game is for smart people who think exactly like me. You're too dumb to see that so GTFO."
You know....sometimes this first part of this (the highlighted part)... IS actually the reason a game isn't "for" some people.
There definitely ARE gamers that find EVE and Fallen Earth (those two in particular) "confusing" and have trouble with the most simple things like....oh....READING....or mousing over an object and reading to see what it says. Sure, the learning curve in those games is a bit steeper than in others, MAYBE.
But when the game "inconveniences" them so....and then they begin to spam public channels with whines that sound like a cat in heat....that is different. And Jon....you think this isn't enough reason to say to them, "You know...maybe this game just isn't for you"......?? I do draw the line at "GTFO," simply because it's rude. And there are some people that WANT to learn how to play (it's pretty easy to discern who those people are, however, by the WAY they ask questions...they're generally not prefaced by "dis game sux ballz"), I'm not talking about those people that just need a nudge in the right direction.
Seriously....there really ARE games that require effort above what some players are willing (or sometimes ABLE) to take. And if they've made that perfectly clear....I see no problem whatsoever with telling them that perhaps another game would please them more. They want to be happy...I want them to be happy. I want them to be happy in another game where I'm not going to have to listen to hours on end of why "Game X" is so much better than this game (even though...they're not playing Super Dooper Game X anymore).
That particular way of using this defense actually brings us right back to #5, and I think I made it quite clear how I feel about that."
Where I would draw the line, as I said, is taking THIS defense into the unnecessary length of rudely saying, "If you don't like it, GTFO." Yes...I might FEEL like saying that, but it isn't very helpful. I have said things similar to that, but markedly less rude...like saying that a game isn't for everyone....that is TRUE of any game from WoW to Hello Kitty to AoC to Darkfall and everything in between. I just dont' see the issue here...
#2 is an incredibly valid defense. Some MMOs are not meant to be like WoW in certain ways, some MMOs are not meant to have x feature, etc. Some fighting games are meant to be Guilty Gear style and that won't change, some fighting games are meant to be more like Street fighter, some aspects are made with certain goals in mind. Some strategy games are not meant to be super complex, some are not meant to be quickly swallowed, complaining about complexity in Hearts of Iron 2 or simplicity in Civilization is silly. Paradox Interactive games are for PI fans, Civ games are for Civ fans.
People really need to learn to separate their subjective desires for games from some sort of universal rules of design. You think x should work differently, perhaps like something else you like? Changing that would be at the cost of those who already like x, it would change the game's design in a way that they would not like. If you don't like the complexity in HOI2 or the way combat feels in X game or whatever, then think about how subjective your criticism is. It may be better to just GTFO since it's not your sort of game, and most games are probably not going to be and probably shouldn't be.
Dam how many times have I heard that in WarhammerAlliance forum. I was called a troll and even banned for pointing out flaws in the game. THEN BAMN !!!! the game came out with the game killer issues, LOL and now look at were it at.
I am tired of indie games asking for money like they sunk 100 mil into their projects when they didn't. And, I can't tell you how many times people have told me to go back to WoW... thing is, i never played the game!
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I actually think 'the fun starts after level X' is a reasonable defence. The issue is that some MMOs use the first several levels or first region as a tutorial to ease the player in. I remember MMOs around 200-2004 there was a lot of discussion about learning curves and how well you learnt the game over time based upon how much there was to learn. As a teacher this was important to me.
Eve:online for example has a tutorial system (which is skippable) at the start to get you used to general systems in Eve, it is however very short and the rest of the game is still complicated to an MMO virgin (note that initial release was easier to understand as there was less content).
Age of Conan is another one where the first five levels is basically running through the first linear region learning how to do basic things. The rest of the game however is not linear. On the same game, they do not introduce resource gathering till level 20, and trade skills till level 40, presumably to make sure you understand the other parts of the game and your skills first (as a teacher myself, this makes perfect sense). The flaw is that you cant skip any of this on your second character and must still wait.
For the WoW fans: the noob zones, or starting areas, are your tutorial. Unlike Age of Conan they are more open, and you can leave them. But essentially they are there to help you adjust to game play and design and do not incorporate such things as resources or crafting. You still have to do these startting areas unfortunately as your level is not high enough to fight in other areas. (although you can run to another starting area and gain several levels in the process of exploring).
In conclusion, I think that the fun starting after a specific level is a good defence as it tells you how much there is to learn in the game. It also shows that they have not just dumped you in the midst of the game in the hope you will survive.
First up, LOVE the article. Very well thought out and worded... tho I will say a little contradictory when you criticize the use of GTFO and then use it yourself.
Several people posting here need to not take this article out of context tho. If you're guilty of using the most lowbrow of defense on this list, then yes, he's tearing you a new one and you can't justify your actions, so please just grow up. Don't GTFO, just grow up. Don't shut up, just think before you type.
This listing has been primarily written in the context of things you'd see in a forum. Citing in game reasons are redundant. If you don't like what someone is 'whining' about, 'crying' about or just plain being annoying about; in game, there's an 'ignore' function. Use it. Then, you don't need to worry about resorting to any of these defenses. Attempting to tear the OP a new one because you're tired of whiners in game is pointless. You cite that you repeatedly see these people do this, but alot of people live by "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". You cite this in multiple games. Maybe these people aren't the same people from game to game?
These people are:
A) Looking for attention. Arguing with them is just giving them what they want.
Looking to piss others off. Arguing with them is just giving them what they want.
C) Looking for help. Arguing with them isn't helping them and will not get them to shut up. If they're too stupid for you, ignore them. Or, better yet, learn some social skill and tolerance and help a person out. Not everyone has your experience or comprehension skills.
To sum up: If you see complaints in game, try helping. If it's not a matter of helping them enjoy a game, then put them on ignore. If it's in a forum, have fun. The other person is already most likely doing just this, at your expense.
Great article. I'm glad someone attacked the WoW haters head on. They're the most immature fools you'll ever meet. And you know what's the saddest thing of all? The people who jump on the WoW bashing train with illogical and downright stupid arguments aren't all teenagers like you would expect! They're grown men and women! Go play LOTRO to get an idea. For the so called "maturity" of the LOTRO community (And it's true as far as age is concerned) they sure as hell blow it 100 times a day to bash WoW as if LOTRO is some hardcore MMO, non-mainstream like WoW and therefor edgy MMO. They're so illogical and ignorant that it blows my mind.
My kinship leader was an older guy I honestly liked to be around. He's really knowledgeable about MMOs and we both along with his wife prefer hardcore PvP MMOs. But then he goes off about WoW in global chat at least once a day with the most ignorant statements filled with illogical fallacies... It's just so strange to hear the person I knew making arguments and insults so immature and ignorant.
Of course, this isn't limited to LOTRO at all, but good god they're obsessed with WoW this many years later. Most MMOs these days move past their continuous WoW bashing stage after a few months, but not LOTRO. Oh no.
Anyways, it just makes me upset why most people... at least most people vocal on the internet through social platforms (forums, game chat, blogs, etc) act this way. They're the same as console fanboys. I don't understand why they exist and why they're so numerous. Why is it that I always loved all consoles and had an appreciation for all MMOs regardless of my dislike? For instance, I didn't like LOTRO... at all. I still accept it for what it is, praise the fact that Turbine supports the social aspects of MMOs which is dying out and enjoy renewing my subscription every once in a while to continue the story. Meh, it's not worth trying to figure out. (And my post having so much LOTRO wasn't on purpose, it just... came up for all of my examples)
#10 It's in Beta – ‘Beta’ is now used as a free trial, so the defense that the issues will be resolved before launch is a false one.
#9 It'll be complete in six months – Before the internet we dreamed of patches, now we loathe them as they are the excuse for bringing an uncompleted product to your door.
#4 The fun starts after level X – I most recently saw this on a Aion post where ‘the fun starts after level 40’ that’s over half way through the game!
You've summed up, in one place, things that many here have been trying to get across for a long time now. Thank you for doing so .
And yeah... I'd like that "paid shill" job, too. I've yet to see anything for that. Maybe they use super-secret terms so other companies don't pick up on it and try to get spies into the companies? Conspiracy!!!
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
#10 It's in Beta – ‘Beta’ is now used as a free trial, so the defense that the issues will be resolved before launch is a false one.
#9 It'll be complete in six months – Before the internet we dreamed of patches, now we loathe them as they are the excuse for bringing an uncompleted product to your door.
#4 The fun starts after level X – I most recently saw this on a Aion post where ‘the fun starts after level 40’ that’s over half way through the game!
Yes those are my fovite ones, not to mention sto, fun does not start until your t2 level ships.
Excellent, excellent, excellent article and LOOOONG overdue here. I have been hearing each and everyone of those tired-ass excuses from the FBs in order to justify a crappy game since I first joined these forums.
We've all heard this one many times when a game from a new studio, or one without the financial backing of a major publisher gets into the world of making games. I am personally a huge proponent of independent MMOs because that is where a great deal of the innovation in our industry is going to come from.
The problem with many indy games is that, in many areas, they often do not line up well side by side with their AAA counterparts, prompting heavy criticism, and staunch defense.
While I agree that indy games need to be viewed as such, and their status needs to be taken into account when discussing the pros and cons of the game, the fact remains that indy MMOs often charge the same fees as AAA MMOs, which is what often prompts the attacks on the game in the first place.
In short, if you don't want to be treated as an equal to AAA games, don't make me pay for your game like it was one.
I have been hearing this about Fallen Earth for months now and my main contention is and will be: If their Indy and dont have the capital atm to make major improvements, they need to stop charging TOP DOLLAR like the WOW's of the world.
Wow... just, wow... First up, LOVE the article. Very well thought out and worded... tho I will say a little contradictory when you criticize the use of GTFO and then use it yourself.
He was being facetious/ironic. Or were you also being facetious....?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
What about: It has x mio players, so it must do something right. :P
Just because it is closing servers doesn't mean it is doing something wrong.
Hmm...
Heheh yeah.. I like that one, too; especially when it comes from the company them self.
I remember when NC announced they'd be consolidating 6 servers down to 3 - and then emphasized "this is not a sign that the game is losing players!"
Well...
MMOs don't consolidate servers when they all have healthy populations. People saying "geeze the game is emptying out" coinciding with the time frame that consolidations are announced is not merely coincidence.
FFXI has had 32 servers going on years now... in a now 8-ish year old game. They have yet to consolidate servers. They have yet to announce anything about consolidating servers. They likely will not have to even consider this until after XIV releases - *if* it has a large enough impact on XI's population to warrant it.
So yeah... of course the developers spin it as "we're doing it to bring more excitement to the players!" - which translates to, "fewer people on a server makes the game less fun, which begins a snowball effect of people leaving the game because fewere people (perhaps many they know) are playing. So, by merging servers, we can fill up a server again, thus giving the impression that there are more people playing!" - fortunately, not everyone is dumb enough to believe that kind of BS
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Excellent, excellent, excellent article and LOOOONG overdue here. I have been hearing each and everyone of those tired-ass excuses from the FBs in order to justify a crappy game since I first joined these forums.
My current favorite: #8 It's an indy game We've all heard this one many times when a game from a new studio, or one without the financial backing of a major publisher gets into the world of making games. I am personally a huge proponent of independent MMOs because that is where a great deal of the innovation in our industry is going to come from. The problem with many indy games is that, in many areas, they often do not line up well side by side with their AAA counterparts, prompting heavy criticism, and staunch defense. While I agree that indy games need to be viewed as such, and their status needs to be taken into account when discussing the pros and cons of the game, the fact remains that indy MMOs often charge the same fees as AAA MMOs, which is what often prompts the attacks on the game in the first place. In short, if you don't want to be treated as an equal to AAA games, don't make me pay for your game like it was one.
I have been hearing this about Fallen Earth for months now and my main contention is and will be: If their Indy and dont have the capital atm to make major improvements, they need to stop charging TOP DOLLAR like the WOW's of the world.
See....the only problem with your statement (highlighted in orange) is that FE is a great MMO for those of us that love it, have NO problem paying the same price for it as other "AAA" titles (which could simply mean as LITTLE as a big company with a lot of money pumps out a piece of shit game...*cough*AoC*cough*....and therefore we must call it a "AAA" title). And there are other titles I could add here besides AoC. Big money doesn't always translate into a game that I personally would enjoy. In the same context..."little" money, doesn't always mean I won't love a game, either. And the "AAA" title thing....doesn't mean jack crap to me.
I would gladly pay TWICE as much for FE before I would pay one dollar a month to play AoC.
Icarus doesn't "need to stop charging 'TOP DOLLAR.'" There are a lot of us paying it because we LIKE the game. What "needs" to happen, is the people that don't like it...."need" to just not play it. It's really that simple. Or maybe, since the "WoW's of the World" are such superior games, they "need" to raise their prices. Pffft. Why would Icarus charge one dime less than they do, when they have people GLADLY paying to play? That is illogical.
Futher, I would wonder if you, by firsthand knowledge, know ANY of the major improvements that HAVE been made to the game, or are presently BEING made to the game. Those of us that pay to play it....we're well aware of what's going on in FE.
Just because something is popular does not mean it's good. And just because something is good, does not mean it will be popular.
Isn't that the damn truth?
And yet.....some people will still have the balls to argue an inarguable truth.....amazing.
"Good" is one of the most subjective terms you could ever come up with. People are not fucking lemmings....but many sure behave as if they are. I think for myself. If something is good TO ME....that doesn't mean it's good to everyone. However, the opposite is also true. And frankly, do adults really need the affirmation of millions of other people liking what they like to VALIDATE their enjoyment of something? How sad.
"Ooooo you play a AAA MMO title....you must be soooo kewl." /gag, choke, puke How about, "No, I play what I enjoy. Sometimes that might be a 'AAA title' and sometimes it might be a casual game of Bejeweled." I play and pay for what I PERSONALLY feel warrants that support from me. Everyone else is welcome to do the same. And I don't honestly care if my game is "popular," or if my sunglasses are "popular," or if anyone likes the music that I like. I'm pretty far beyond letting the opinion of the masses influence my choices and my pocketbook.
#6 You're obviously a paid shill for Company X Ok, this one I hate. I will not make any defense of this defense. This defense is completely and utter bogus, and yet we see it all the time. This one makes the assumption that anyone who doesn't like what I like must get paid to come onto forums and say bad things about the game I like. First of all, where do I get a job like that? Seriously. I want to know. Is there some kind of listing? If I look in the right papers will I find a want ad that reads: "Seeking professional troll. Must hate everything and have unpleasant social skills. Being a douchebag is an asset, but not required." Yes, viral marketing does exist. Yes, viral marketing is annoying (I assume it's that particular phenomenon that's given rise to this bizarre defense of a game against criticism, yes?) But let's not assume that people who don't agree with us must be taking money for their thoughts. That's just. Well, a little bit insane.
This one has actually happened before! I know of only one example: Cryptic Studios sold City of Heroes to NCSoft and then went and made Champions Online. About the time Champions Online went into closed beta Cryptic actually got their employees to recruit players from the City of Heroes official forums to try the CO closed beta.
Comments
Ahem....
"#2 This game isn't for everyone
This is another one of those sometimes good and sometimes bad defenses of a game. I mean, on the surface, it makes sense. The MMO genre is so big these days that every game is going after its own little niche part of the market. They aren't really being made anymore to try to appeal to everyone (cause that worked so well in the past), there should be an assumption that not every person is going to like every game. (yeah, maybe there should be...but there's not.)
Problem here is, Jon....some idiots really DO assume that every game should cater to THEIR personal desires for a game. They have a really hard time fathoming that this game...the one they're playing the trial for...might just be made for people who like a different kind of game than they do. They don't understand that they are not the center of the gaming universe, and that their preferences for gaming...are not worldwide views....
Frankly...I don't give a shit if I'm paying for and playing a game that I enjoy, if Joe Suckme logs in and "Oooo waaaah" doesn't like it. After all....we don't have fast travel, or brightly colored bikini clad nightelves dancing on mailboxes, or auto attack, or a diagram of how to most quickly get to max level and "endgame" (and yes...I have seen ACTUAL serious complaints about things like this). So you know what.....
If the game you're playing a trial of is NOT the game for you, for whaever reason you have in your mind.....is it ABSOLUTELY necessary to broadcast that complaint of yours to the entirety of the server, before you log off having never paid one DIME for the privilege of annoying everyone?? Really? Reeeeally?
The problem is that I so often see this defense used in a dismissive way.
And why...exactly....should we NOT be dismissive to someone that demands every game made must cater to their own personal whims? Yes, please do explain this. Because after the 10th time I hear from the SAME person how "this game sux, I can't auto target," or whatever their gripe of this particular hour is (that I will get to hear them say now repeatedly until NEXT hour's pet gripe) and yet they STILL are playing and polluting the public chat with stupidity....I start feeling a little... dismissive. And I don't think that's abnormal.....
People write these words when what they really mean is: "You're stupid. This game is for smart people who think exactly like me. You're too dumb to see that so GTFO."
You know....sometimes this first part of this (the highlighted part)... IS actually the reason a game isn't "for" some people.
There definitely ARE gamers that find EVE and Fallen Earth (those two in particular) "confusing" and have trouble with the most simple things like....oh....READING....or mousing over an object and reading to see what it says. Sure, the learning curve in those games is a bit steeper than in others, MAYBE.
But when the game "inconveniences" them so....and then they begin to spam public channels with whines that sound like a cat in heat....that is different. And Jon....you think this isn't enough reason to say to them, "You know...maybe this game just isn't for you"......?? I do draw the line at "GTFO," simply because it's rude. And there are some people that WANT to learn how to play (it's pretty easy to discern who those people are, however, by the WAY they ask questions...they're generally not prefaced by "dis game sux ballz"), I'm not talking about those people that just need a nudge in the right direction.
Seriously....there really ARE games that require effort above what some players are willing (or sometimes ABLE) to take. And if they've made that perfectly clear....I see no problem whatsoever with telling them that perhaps another game would please them more. They want to be happy...I want them to be happy. I want them to be happy in another game where I'm not going to have to listen to hours on end of why "Game X" is so much better than this game (even though...they're not playing Super Dooper Game X anymore).
That particular way of using this defense actually brings us right back to #5, and I think I made it quite clear how I feel about that."
Where I would draw the line, as I said, is taking THIS defense into the unnecessary length of rudely saying, "If you don't like it, GTFO." Yes...I might FEEL like saying that, but it isn't very helpful. I have said things similar to that, but markedly less rude...like saying that a game isn't for everyone....that is TRUE of any game from WoW to Hello Kitty to AoC to Darkfall and everything in between. I just dont' see the issue here...
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
#2 is an incredibly valid defense. Some MMOs are not meant to be like WoW in certain ways, some MMOs are not meant to have x feature, etc. Some fighting games are meant to be Guilty Gear style and that won't change, some fighting games are meant to be more like Street fighter, some aspects are made with certain goals in mind. Some strategy games are not meant to be super complex, some are not meant to be quickly swallowed, complaining about complexity in Hearts of Iron 2 or simplicity in Civilization is silly. Paradox Interactive games are for PI fans, Civ games are for Civ fans.
People really need to learn to separate their subjective desires for games from some sort of universal rules of design. You think x should work differently, perhaps like something else you like? Changing that would be at the cost of those who already like x, it would change the game's design in a way that they would not like. If you don't like the complexity in HOI2 or the way combat feels in X game or whatever, then think about how subjective your criticism is. It may be better to just GTFO since it's not your sort of game, and most games are probably not going to be and probably shouldn't be.
LOL so true
GO BACK TO WOW!!!!!
Dam how many times have I heard that in WarhammerAlliance forum. I was called a troll and even banned for pointing out flaws in the game. THEN BAMN !!!! the game came out with the game killer issues, LOL and now look at were it at.
LOL
Funny read! Both lists actually.
Excellent list.
I am tired of indie games asking for money like they sunk 100 mil into their projects when they didn't. And, I can't tell you how many times people have told me to go back to WoW... thing is, i never played the game!
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
One of the best articles ever posted on this site!
#1 is my favorite..
cuz its so true.
I actually think 'the fun starts after level X' is a reasonable defence. The issue is that some MMOs use the first several levels or first region as a tutorial to ease the player in. I remember MMOs around 200-2004 there was a lot of discussion about learning curves and how well you learnt the game over time based upon how much there was to learn. As a teacher this was important to me.
Eve:online for example has a tutorial system (which is skippable) at the start to get you used to general systems in Eve, it is however very short and the rest of the game is still complicated to an MMO virgin (note that initial release was easier to understand as there was less content).
Age of Conan is another one where the first five levels is basically running through the first linear region learning how to do basic things. The rest of the game however is not linear. On the same game, they do not introduce resource gathering till level 20, and trade skills till level 40, presumably to make sure you understand the other parts of the game and your skills first (as a teacher myself, this makes perfect sense). The flaw is that you cant skip any of this on your second character and must still wait.
For the WoW fans: the noob zones, or starting areas, are your tutorial. Unlike Age of Conan they are more open, and you can leave them. But essentially they are there to help you adjust to game play and design and do not incorporate such things as resources or crafting. You still have to do these startting areas unfortunately as your level is not high enough to fight in other areas. (although you can run to another starting area and gain several levels in the process of exploring).
In conclusion, I think that the fun starting after a specific level is a good defence as it tells you how much there is to learn in the game. It also shows that they have not just dumped you in the midst of the game in the hope you will survive.
Wow... just, wow...
First up, LOVE the article. Very well thought out and worded... tho I will say a little contradictory when you criticize the use of GTFO and then use it yourself.
Several people posting here need to not take this article out of context tho. If you're guilty of using the most lowbrow of defense on this list, then yes, he's tearing you a new one and you can't justify your actions, so please just grow up. Don't GTFO, just grow up. Don't shut up, just think before you type.
This listing has been primarily written in the context of things you'd see in a forum. Citing in game reasons are redundant. If you don't like what someone is 'whining' about, 'crying' about or just plain being annoying about; in game, there's an 'ignore' function. Use it. Then, you don't need to worry about resorting to any of these defenses. Attempting to tear the OP a new one because you're tired of whiners in game is pointless. You cite that you repeatedly see these people do this, but alot of people live by "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". You cite this in multiple games. Maybe these people aren't the same people from game to game?
These people are:
A) Looking for attention. Arguing with them is just giving them what they want.
C) Looking for help. Arguing with them isn't helping them and will not get them to shut up. If they're too stupid for you, ignore them. Or, better yet, learn some social skill and tolerance and help a person out. Not everyone has your experience or comprehension skills.
To sum up: If you see complaints in game, try helping. If it's not a matter of helping them enjoy a game, then put them on ignore. If it's in a forum, have fun. The other person is already most likely doing just this, at your expense.
And, awesome list
Great article. I'm glad someone attacked the WoW haters head on. They're the most immature fools you'll ever meet. And you know what's the saddest thing of all? The people who jump on the WoW bashing train with illogical and downright stupid arguments aren't all teenagers like you would expect! They're grown men and women! Go play LOTRO to get an idea. For the so called "maturity" of the LOTRO community (And it's true as far as age is concerned) they sure as hell blow it 100 times a day to bash WoW as if LOTRO is some hardcore MMO, non-mainstream like WoW and therefor edgy MMO. They're so illogical and ignorant that it blows my mind.
My kinship leader was an older guy I honestly liked to be around. He's really knowledgeable about MMOs and we both along with his wife prefer hardcore PvP MMOs. But then he goes off about WoW in global chat at least once a day with the most ignorant statements filled with illogical fallacies... It's just so strange to hear the person I knew making arguments and insults so immature and ignorant.
Of course, this isn't limited to LOTRO at all, but good god they're obsessed with WoW this many years later. Most MMOs these days move past their continuous WoW bashing stage after a few months, but not LOTRO. Oh no.
Anyways, it just makes me upset why most people... at least most people vocal on the internet through social platforms (forums, game chat, blogs, etc) act this way. They're the same as console fanboys. I don't understand why they exist and why they're so numerous. Why is it that I always loved all consoles and had an appreciation for all MMOs regardless of my dislike? For instance, I didn't like LOTRO... at all. I still accept it for what it is, praise the fact that Turbine supports the social aspects of MMOs which is dying out and enjoy renewing my subscription every once in a while to continue the story. Meh, it's not worth trying to figure out. (And my post having so much LOTRO wasn't on purpose, it just... came up for all of my examples)
After the hate there is the luv!
#10 It's in Beta – ‘Beta’ is now used as a free trial, so the defense that the issues will be resolved before launch is a false one.
#9 It'll be complete in six months – Before the internet we dreamed of patches, now we loathe them as they are the excuse for bringing an uncompleted product to your door.
#4 The fun starts after level X – I most recently saw this on a Aion post where ‘the fun starts after level 40’ that’s over half way through the game!
What about: It has x mio players, so it must do something right. :P
Excellent. Excellent. Excellent article, Jon.
You've summed up, in one place, things that many here have been trying to get across for a long time now. Thank you for doing so
.
And yeah... I'd like that "paid shill" job, too. I've yet to see anything for that. Maybe they use super-secret terms so other companies don't pick up on it and try to get spies into the companies? Conspiracy!!!
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Just because something is popular does not mean it's good.
And just because something is good, does not mean it will be popular.
Yes those are my fovite ones, not to mention sto, fun does not start until your t2 level ships.
Excellent, excellent, excellent article and LOOOONG overdue here. I have been hearing each and everyone of those tired-ass excuses from the FBs in order to justify a crappy game since I first joined these forums.
My current favorite:
#8 It's an indy game
We've all heard this one many times when a game from a new studio, or one without the financial backing of a major publisher gets into the world of making games. I am personally a huge proponent of independent MMOs because that is where a great deal of the innovation in our industry is going to come from.
The problem with many indy games is that, in many areas, they often do not line up well side by side with their AAA counterparts, prompting heavy criticism, and staunch defense.
While I agree that indy games need to be viewed as such, and their status needs to be taken into account when discussing the pros and cons of the game, the fact remains that indy MMOs often charge the same fees as AAA MMOs, which is what often prompts the attacks on the game in the first place.
In short, if you don't want to be treated as an equal to AAA games, don't make me pay for your game like it was one.
I have been hearing this about Fallen Earth for months now and my main contention is and will be: If their Indy and dont have the capital atm to make major improvements, they need to stop charging TOP DOLLAR like the WOW's of the world.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Fixed
Sandbox/PvP games just have the best communities, don't they? And we wonder why there aren't more of them.
Fixed again!
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This just reminded me of The Sphinx from Mystery Men.
Just because it is closing servers doesn't mean it is doing something wrong.
Hmm...
Just because it is closing servers doesn't mean it is doing something wrong.
Hmm...
Heheh yeah.. I like that one, too; especially when it comes from the company them self.
I remember when NC announced they'd be consolidating 6 servers down to 3 - and then emphasized "this is not a sign that the game is losing players!"
Well...
MMOs don't consolidate servers when they all have healthy populations. People saying "geeze the game is emptying out" coinciding with the time frame that consolidations are announced is not merely coincidence.
FFXI has had 32 servers going on years now... in a now 8-ish year old game. They have yet to consolidate servers. They have yet to announce anything about consolidating servers. They likely will not have to even consider this until after XIV releases - *if* it has a large enough impact on XI's population to warrant it.
So yeah... of course the developers spin it as "we're doing it to bring more excitement to the players!" - which translates to, "fewer people on a server makes the game less fun, which begins a snowball effect of people leaving the game because fewere people (perhaps many they know) are playing. So, by merging servers, we can fill up a server again, thus giving the impression that there are more people playing!" - fortunately, not everyone is dumb enough to believe that kind of BS
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
See....the only problem with your statement (highlighted in orange) is that FE is a great MMO for those of us that love it, have NO problem paying the same price for it as other "AAA" titles (which could simply mean as LITTLE as a big company with a lot of money pumps out a piece of shit game...*cough*AoC*cough*....and therefore we must call it a "AAA" title). And there are other titles I could add here besides AoC. Big money doesn't always translate into a game that I personally would enjoy. In the same context..."little" money, doesn't always mean I won't love a game, either. And the "AAA" title thing....doesn't mean jack crap to me.
I would gladly pay TWICE as much for FE before I would pay one dollar a month to play AoC.
Icarus doesn't "need to stop charging 'TOP DOLLAR.'" There are a lot of us paying it because we LIKE the game. What "needs" to happen, is the people that don't like it...."need" to just not play it. It's really that simple. Or maybe, since the "WoW's of the World" are such superior games, they "need" to raise their prices. Pffft. Why would Icarus charge one dime less than they do, when they have people GLADLY paying to play? That is illogical.
Futher, I would wonder if you, by firsthand knowledge, know ANY of the major improvements that HAVE been made to the game, or are presently BEING made to the game. Those of us that pay to play it....we're well aware of what's going on in FE.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Isn't that the damn truth?
And yet.....some people will still have the balls to argue an inarguable truth.....amazing.
"Good" is one of the most subjective terms you could ever come up with. People are not fucking lemmings....but many sure behave as if they are. I think for myself. If something is good TO ME....that doesn't mean it's good to everyone. However, the opposite is also true. And frankly, do adults really need the affirmation of millions of other people liking what they like to VALIDATE their enjoyment of something? How sad.
"Ooooo you play a AAA MMO title....you must be soooo kewl." /gag, choke, puke How about, "No, I play what I enjoy. Sometimes that might be a 'AAA title' and sometimes it might be a casual game of Bejeweled." I play and pay for what I PERSONALLY feel warrants that support from me. Everyone else is welcome to do the same. And I don't honestly care if my game is "popular," or if my sunglasses are "popular," or if anyone likes the music that I like. I'm pretty far beyond letting the opinion of the masses influence my choices and my pocketbook.
Good 2 liner there MyDcmbr81.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
"It has potential" should have been on the list.
This one has actually happened before! I know of only one example: Cryptic Studios sold City of Heroes to NCSoft and then went and made Champions Online. About the time Champions Online went into closed beta Cryptic actually got their employees to recruit players from the City of Heroes official forums to try the CO closed beta.
Here is a relevant article: kotaku.com/5176773/champions-online-solicits-city-of-heroes-players