I read through that whole thread and all I have to say is that both sides of the "debate" are remarkably ill informed about the game they're playing. The OP had power leveled his way to cap, and didn't even realize that Cryptic's plan has always been to add end-game stuff a week or two after launch. I'm not playing the damn game and even I knew that. STO's community is also a pretty bitter and hostile crowd, it seems. It's at WoW levels in terms of rudeness and anti-social behavior. In WoW that comes from the fact that so many of the players are in puberty; in STO I'm guessing it comes from so many of the players having Asperger's Syndrome. Don't know how else to explain it.
This is almost as bad as Vanguard all over again (from what I am hearing). Again, I don't plan on playing STO. Beta was enough for me to not buy the game.
Oh where have MMOs gone these days....
Every game released in the last 4 years have been as bad or as nearly as bad as Vanguard in some peoples point of view. I am tired of hearing it really.
When we will accept that we will never ever get a content rich MMO games on release. You can shout and scream here as much as you like but it wont happen period.
The point I was making was towards Vanguard at launch, not how it is now. I played the crap out of VG, about 12+ hours a day for most days of the week for just about 3 months. I was entirely disappointed at the end game, farming Rahz Inkur with broken mechanics and exploring Necropolis with ZERO purpose. No game in the entire history of MMOs that I have played has been as broken and unfinished as Vanguard was. No game recently released is remotely as bad as VG was, possiby AOC. I hope STO is not on the same level, if it is Cryptic has a huge problem with the game.
As for figures, apparently STO has 1mil accounts. Keeping them will be another matter entirely
Actually, that was one million accounts on their websites (notice the plural); I'm guessing they are counting the CO website accounts as well, even if said accounts have never accessed the STO website, because your forum account is universal between both games and is your login handle for either game (if you don't make a new one, of course). There are a couple threads on this already.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
No power player is a noob and they know what they are doing. This post is really just going over old ground, and should be used to show noob MMO players that if you do power level (3 days after release) you will end up with no end game. Everyone else and their dogs knows this.
I played since the head start and took Monday and Tuesday off and have played every night since and i am only Lt commander with the Feds and Lt Commander with a Klingon Char. So they must have be doing some real power playing to get to cap already.
Funny then how mmos that have content and substance you can't get to max level in 3 days. These arguments are all complete rubbish. Just because you slow yourself down does not make it more content. The recent releases like AoC, Darkfall, STO, Champions etc. are all very simple and repetitive games. There are no challenges, not epic story lines, nothing that "sucks you in". STO is just another one of those in a long history of crap released since WoW invented the 'casual' mmo.
EDIT: Schpelling!
Who said anything about slowing myself down? I am playing at a rate i think the devs thought reasonable.
Getting to lvl 60 in WoW, ie when it was released , has a record of 4 days+, so how significantly different is that from 3days+?
How much less content does STOL have over the best ever causal MMO ever made? 24 hours game play, What an awesome difference lol!
Would be interesting to know what MMO you are playing, so that we can also enjoy a challenging, complex, original, epic, totally engrossing, content and end game rich on release MMO. Please enlighten us as we are surely ignorant.
Exactly my point. WoW started this sad development towards mediocrity.
As to your question: I am still playing FFXI and have not tried all of the available end game content nor do i have all jobs leveld or all crafts maxed. Sure, it had 3 expansions and 3 Episodes added since release, but even back at release it took more than 3 or 4 days to get to max level let alone get your subjob, Airship pass, chocobo license and Artefact Armor done.
No need to get your panties in a bunch, i was merely pointing out that we should not accept such development and that there are games that did it differently.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Do people even play games for fun anymore? I remember the days when me and my friends used to make up our own content in EQ. Guess that's just to hard for people to do these days...
My favorite thing is, most of these idiot kids now days forget that MMORPG stands for MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Its those last three words that people forget about.
But I blame society, kids are spoiled they get everything NOW, they want it NOW, they fail to understand that sometimes its better to talk your way out of something than fight in a game.
Do people even play games for fun anymore? I remember the days when me and my friends used to make up our own content in EQ. Guess that's just to hard for people to do these days...
My favorite thing is, most of these idiot kids now days forget that MMORPG stands for MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Its those last three words that people forget about.
But I blame society, kids are spoiled they get everything NOW, they want it NOW, they fail to understand that sometimes its better to talk your way out of something than fight in a game.
100% agreed.
instant gratification mentality bleeds into video games.
I fail to see the problem? For most players the end game content will be there by the time they get there! These no lifer power levellers are a minority.
I fail to see the problem? For most players the end game content will be there by the time they get there! These no lifer power levellers are a minority.
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I fail to see the problem? For most players the end game content will be there by the time they get there! These no lifer power levellers are a minority.
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
Dude,
Do you really think Cryptic gives a damn?
They suckered so many people into buying a Lifetime sub, longterm sub and with crazy amount of pre-order stuff, also suckered many into buying multiple retail boxes!
They got your money already. People forked out over 300-400 bucks UPFRONT! So Cryptic can put this game into maintainence mode after the first month and start focussing on their next project.
That's why Lifetime and longterm subs are a plague. When everyone pays everything upfront. The company doesn't have to perform anymore to keep you subbed. As you have already payed!
Funny how people whine about no end-game in a game that hasnt been out a week yet.
WoW didn't have any end game until MONTHS after its release. Everyone is just to use to this they whine about any game over and over again.
I am no WoW fan nor played the game for the last 2 years. But the bullcrap and lies people keep spouting out to defend shady crap companies like Cryptic is simply astounding!
Not only had WoW a ton more content at release, and so provided people alternative content when leveling up ALT's.
Group / 10man endgame dungeons for T0 gear were there at launch, like Start, Scholo, UBRS and LBRS.
RAID dungeons like Molten Core and Onyxia's lair (wich had the best pre-requisite epic quest arc of any mmo to date) were in at launch!
So please, people should try get their facts straight!
Funny how people whine about no end-game in a game that hasnt been out a week yet.
WoW didn't have any end game until MONTHS after its release. Everyone is just to use to this they whine about any game over and over again.
I am no WoW fan nor played the game for the last 2 years. But the bullcrap and lies people keep spouting out to defend shady crap companies like Cryptic is simply astounding!
Not only had WoW a ton more content at release, and so provided people alternative content when leveling up ALT's.
Group / 10man endgame dungeons for T0 gear were there at launch, like Start, Scholo, UBRS and LBRS.
RAID dungeons like Molten Core and Onyxia's lair (wich had the best pre-requisite epic quest arc of any mmo to date) were in at launch!
So please, people should try get their facts straight!
I agree 100% with Guillermo197. Anyone who is saying WoW's release created the "casual MMO" has no idea what WoW was like at release. Compared to other MMO's out at the time people considered it casual. Compared to what everyone has to look at today, it was anything but a casual game.
I fail to see the problem? For most players the end game content will be there by the time they get there! These no lifer power levellers are a minority.
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
Dude,
Do you really think Cryptic gives a damn?
They suckered so many people into buying a Lifetime sub, longterm sub and with crazy amount of pre-order stuff, also suckered many into buying multiple retail boxes!
They got your money already. People forked out over 300-400 bucks UPFRONT! So Cryptic can put this game into maintainence mode after the first month and start focussing on their next project.
That's why Lifetime and longterm subs are a plague. When everyone pays everything upfront. The company doesn't have to perform anymore to keep you subbed. As you have already payed!
Cheers
No, I don't think they give a damn; that much is painfully clear from their last two games. I would just like to see more companies actually do some real market research. For example, Funcom has developed a habit of releasing games in a very poor shape and then over time eventually turning them into good MMOs. They also have a rather nasty habit of trying to reinvent the wheel everytime. For example AOC's trader (auction) interface was god awful for quite a bit after launch and even was missing categories. However, they had a decent version of one in their other game (AO), and could have set up AOC's similarly, but with a Conan skin.
If a company can't use a previous MMO of theirs to get an idea of how to setup a specific feature (Auctions, UI, etc.), then there are plenty of games out there they can draw examples from. Send out your devs during your MMOs planning stage, and have them actually play and see what works. Let them browse other MMOs forums and look at what features the players seem to like or not, and plan accordingly. You shouldn't listen to the forums 100% on every detail, but there's nothing wrong with using them as a starting point for some ideas.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Comments
As for figures, apparently STO has 1mil accounts. Keeping them will be another matter entirely
It being a Star Trek.....what the hell is it?
My electric bill has been running since 1966...no end in sight.
Youth is wasted on the young...as is proper grammar and spelling....heheh
Oh please forgive me you #@%$ing grammar nazi I forgot to add IP after Star Trek.
You fit just fine in my signature too.
And yours as well.
Oh forgot I need to use............after every sentence too............that better...................
ROFL!!! Thanks for that!
Every game released in the last 4 years have been as bad or as nearly as bad as Vanguard in some peoples point of view. I am tired of hearing it really.
When we will accept that we will never ever get a content rich MMO games on release. You can shout and scream here as much as you like but it wont happen period.
The point I was making was towards Vanguard at launch, not how it is now. I played the crap out of VG, about 12+ hours a day for most days of the week for just about 3 months. I was entirely disappointed at the end game, farming Rahz Inkur with broken mechanics and exploring Necropolis with ZERO purpose. No game in the entire history of MMOs that I have played has been as broken and unfinished as Vanguard was. No game recently released is remotely as bad as VG was, possiby AOC. I hope STO is not on the same level, if it is Cryptic has a huge problem with the game.
Actually, that was one million accounts on their websites (notice the plural); I'm guessing they are counting the CO website accounts as well, even if said accounts have never accessed the STO website, because your forum account is universal between both games and is your login handle for either game (if you don't make a new one, of course). There are a couple threads on this already.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Funny then how mmos that have content and substance you can't get to max level in 3 days. These arguments are all complete rubbish. Just because you slow yourself down does not make it more content. The recent releases like AoC, Darkfall, STO, Champions etc. are all very simple and repetitive games. There are no challenges, not epic story lines, nothing that "sucks you in". STO is just another one of those in a long history of crap released since WoW invented the 'casual' mmo.
EDIT: Schpelling!
Who said anything about slowing myself down? I am playing at a rate i think the devs thought reasonable.
Getting to lvl 60 in WoW, ie when it was released , has a record of 4 days+, so how significantly different is that from 3days+?
How much less content does STOL have over the best ever causal MMO ever made? 24 hours game play, What an awesome difference lol!
Would be interesting to know what MMO you are playing, so that we can also enjoy a challenging, complex, original, epic, totally engrossing, content and end game rich on release MMO. Please enlighten us as we are surely ignorant.
Exactly my point. WoW started this sad development towards mediocrity.
As to your question: I am still playing FFXI and have not tried all of the available end game content nor do i have all jobs leveld or all crafts maxed. Sure, it had 3 expansions and 3 Episodes added since release, but even back at release it took more than 3 or 4 days to get to max level let alone get your subjob, Airship pass, chocobo license and Artefact Armor done.
No need to get your panties in a bunch, i was merely pointing out that we should not accept such development and that there are games that did it differently.
My favorite thing is, most of these idiot kids now days forget that MMORPG stands for MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Its those last three words that people forget about.
But I blame society, kids are spoiled they get everything NOW, they want it NOW, they fail to understand that sometimes its better to talk your way out of something than fight in a game.
So much crap, so little quality.
My favorite thing is, most of these idiot kids now days forget that MMORPG stands for MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME.
Its those last three words that people forget about.
But I blame society, kids are spoiled they get everything NOW, they want it NOW, they fail to understand that sometimes its better to talk your way out of something than fight in a game.
100% agreed.
instant gratification mentality bleeds into video games.
I fail to see the problem? For most players the end game content will be there by the time they get there! These no lifer power levellers are a minority.
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
Dude,
Do you really think Cryptic gives a damn?
They suckered so many people into buying a Lifetime sub, longterm sub and with crazy amount of pre-order stuff, also suckered many into buying multiple retail boxes!
They got your money already. People forked out over 300-400 bucks UPFRONT! So Cryptic can put this game into maintainence mode after the first month and start focussing on their next project.
That's why Lifetime and longterm subs are a plague. When everyone pays everything upfront. The company doesn't have to perform anymore to keep you subbed. As you have already payed!
Cheers
Funny how people whine about no end-game in a game that hasnt been out a week yet.
WoW didn't have any end game until MONTHS after its release. Everyone is just to use to this they whine about any game over and over again.
I am no WoW fan nor played the game for the last 2 years. But the bullcrap and lies people keep spouting out to defend shady crap companies like Cryptic is simply astounding!
Not only had WoW a ton more content at release, and so provided people alternative content when leveling up ALT's.
Group / 10man endgame dungeons for T0 gear were there at launch, like Start, Scholo, UBRS and LBRS.
RAID dungeons like Molten Core and Onyxia's lair (wich had the best pre-requisite epic quest arc of any mmo to date) were in at launch!
So please, people should try get their facts straight!
I am no WoW fan nor played the game for the last 2 years. But the bullcrap and lies people keep spouting out to defend shady crap companies like Cryptic is simply astounding!
Not only had WoW a ton more content at release, and so provided people alternative content when leveling up ALT's.
Group / 10man endgame dungeons for T0 gear were there at launch, like Start, Scholo, UBRS and LBRS.
RAID dungeons like Molten Core and Onyxia's lair (wich had the best pre-requisite epic quest arc of any mmo to date) were in at launch!
So please, people should try get their facts straight!
I agree 100% with Guillermo197. Anyone who is saying WoW's release created the "casual MMO" has no idea what WoW was like at release. Compared to other MMO's out at the time people considered it casual. Compared to what everyone has to look at today, it was anything but a casual game.
The problem is, having no endgame content when your MMO ships is a rather bad idea. Even Vanguard had some engame content; granted it was either buggy and/or pointless, but it was there. This lesson was learned when DAoC launched; Mythic underestimated how long it would take to reach the endgame, as did Cryptic. In Mythic's defense, they had the RvR to fall back on. I mean seriously, is Blizzard the only company out there that actually studies what other MMO companies have gotten right, and what they screwed up? You would think that after a decade of MMOs, these companies would start paying attention to what works, what needs to be there at launch, and what they should not do.
Dude,
Do you really think Cryptic gives a damn?
They suckered so many people into buying a Lifetime sub, longterm sub and with crazy amount of pre-order stuff, also suckered many into buying multiple retail boxes!
They got your money already. People forked out over 300-400 bucks UPFRONT! So Cryptic can put this game into maintainence mode after the first month and start focussing on their next project.
That's why Lifetime and longterm subs are a plague. When everyone pays everything upfront. The company doesn't have to perform anymore to keep you subbed. As you have already payed!
Cheers
No, I don't think they give a damn; that much is painfully clear from their last two games. I would just like to see more companies actually do some real market research. For example, Funcom has developed a habit of releasing games in a very poor shape and then over time eventually turning them into good MMOs. They also have a rather nasty habit of trying to reinvent the wheel everytime. For example AOC's trader (auction) interface was god awful for quite a bit after launch and even was missing categories. However, they had a decent version of one in their other game (AO), and could have set up AOC's similarly, but with a Conan skin.
If a company can't use a previous MMO of theirs to get an idea of how to setup a specific feature (Auctions, UI, etc.), then there are plenty of games out there they can draw examples from. Send out your devs during your MMOs planning stage, and have them actually play and see what works. Let them browse other MMOs forums and look at what features the players seem to like or not, and plan accordingly. You shouldn't listen to the forums 100% on every detail, but there's nothing wrong with using them as a starting point for some ideas.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan